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Main
Date: 22 Jul 2007 12:07:17
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Explosion of some Spanish climbers
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Dumbasses -
Pure speculation on my part, but . . .
One of the reasons that larger, more powerful riders like Indurain,
Armstrong, Ullrich have been consistent achievers in the TdF over the
years is not only because of their ability to climb and TT (both of
which are essential), but also their ability to handle the chaos in
the opening days of the Tour. Many times in the past we've seen pure
climbers get their legs blown to bits before the race even hit the
mountains (Simoni anyone?).
This year it was a little different - there were some slow days and
the climbers all seemed to have their legs under them as the race hit
the Alps. Everyone was in contention through the Alps.
Then the race went over the usually uneventful transtion days in
between the Alps and the Pyrenees and voila! Astana put everyone into
difficulty on the crosswind day. Next thing you know, guys like
Valverde and Mayo who formerly were riding very well are now riding
like relative crap.
My hypothesis is what Astana did fried those guys.
thoughts?
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
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Date: 22 Jul 2007 20:45:18
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Explosion of some Spanish climbers
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On Jul 22, 8:27 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jul 22, 5:42 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 2:02 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 22, 3:35 pm, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 22, 3:07 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Dumbasses -
>
> > > > > Pure speculation on my part, but . . .
>
> > > > > One of the reasons that larger, more powerful riders like Indurain,
> > > > > Armstrong, Ullrich have been consistent achievers in the TdF over the
> > > > > years is not only because of their ability to climb and TT (both of
> > > > > which are essential), but also their ability to handle the chaos in
> > > > > the opening days of the Tour. Many times in the past we've seen pure
> > > > > climbers get their legs blown to bits before the race even hit the
> > > > > mountains (Simoni anyone?).
>
> > > > > This year it was a little different - there were some slow days and
> > > > > the climbers all seemed to have their legs under them as the race hit
> > > > > the Alps. Everyone was in contention through the Alps.
>
> > > > > Then the race went over the usually uneventful transtion days in
> > > > > between the Alps and the Pyrenees and voila! Astana put everyone into
> > > > > difficulty on the crosswind day. Next thing you know, guys like
> > > > > Valverde and Mayo who formerly were riding very well are now riding
> > > > > like relative crap.
>
> > > > > My hypothesis is what Astana did fried those guys.
>
> > > > > thoughts?
>
> > > > > thanks,
>
> > > > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > > > They fried their own man...Vino, and now Kloden is on the skillet
> > > > apparently.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > it's hard to argue they fried vino when he won he TT and kloden was up
> > > there was well. it's just that they aren't the top climbers in this
> > > tour.
>
> > > until the armstrong era it wasn't common that a rider would dominate
> > > the TT and the climbs.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > I disagree with that.
>
> > Indurain was dominant in the climbs. He wouldn't try and win stages in
> > the mountains, choosing mostly to attack in the TT's ala Anquetil, but
> > when he wanted to, he left everyone behind. What was that, 1995? when
> > Zulle had a 10 minute lead and Indurain rode everyone else off his
> > wheel, halving the deficit? He likely could have done that more often,
> > but Indurain chose to ride conservatively most of the time, minimizing
> > his chances of having a bad day.
>
> > The first year Indurain didn't win, Riis was dominant in both climbs
> > and TTs.
>
> > The next year, Ullrich was dominant in both climbs and TTs.
>
> dumbass,
>
> i disagree, in '97 ullrich was good, but not as good as pantani on the
> climbs. pantani was also the dominant climber in '95.
Dumbass -
You gotta be kidding me:
1997 Tour de France:
1 Jan Ullrich Germany Team Telekom 100h 30' 35"
2 Richard Virenque France Festina 9' 09"
3 Marco Pantani Italy Mercatone-Uno 14' 03"
As for Indurain - he made a conscious choice not to go with every
attack on the climbs. The times that he did . . .
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
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Date: 23 Jul 2007 03:27:03
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Explosion of some Spanish climbers
|
On Jul 22, 5:42 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2:02 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 3:35 pm, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 22, 3:07 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Dumbasses -
>
> > > > Pure speculation on my part, but . . .
>
> > > > One of the reasons that larger, more powerful riders like Indurain,
> > > > Armstrong, Ullrich have been consistent achievers in the TdF over the
> > > > years is not only because of their ability to climb and TT (both of
> > > > which are essential), but also their ability to handle the chaos in
> > > > the opening days of the Tour. Many times in the past we've seen pure
> > > > climbers get their legs blown to bits before the race even hit the
> > > > mountains (Simoni anyone?).
>
> > > > This year it was a little different - there were some slow days and
> > > > the climbers all seemed to have their legs under them as the race hit
> > > > the Alps. Everyone was in contention through the Alps.
>
> > > > Then the race went over the usually uneventful transtion days in
> > > > between the Alps and the Pyrenees and voila! Astana put everyone into
> > > > difficulty on the crosswind day. Next thing you know, guys like
> > > > Valverde and Mayo who formerly were riding very well are now riding
> > > > like relative crap.
>
> > > > My hypothesis is what Astana did fried those guys.
>
> > > > thoughts?
>
> > > > thanks,
>
> > > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > > They fried their own man...Vino, and now Kloden is on the skillet
> > > apparently.
>
> > dumbass,
>
> > it's hard to argue they fried vino when he won he TT and kloden was up
> > there was well. it's just that they aren't the top climbers in this
> > tour.
>
> > until the armstrong era it wasn't common that a rider would dominate
> > the TT and the climbs.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I disagree with that.
>
> Indurain was dominant in the climbs. He wouldn't try and win stages in
> the mountains, choosing mostly to attack in the TT's ala Anquetil, but
> when he wanted to, he left everyone behind. What was that, 1995? when
> Zulle had a 10 minute lead and Indurain rode everyone else off his
> wheel, halving the deficit? He likely could have done that more often,
> but Indurain chose to ride conservatively most of the time, minimizing
> his chances of having a bad day.
>
> The first year Indurain didn't win, Riis was dominant in both climbs
> and TTs.
>
> The next year, Ullrich was dominant in both climbs and TTs.
dumbass,
i disagree, in '97 ullrich was good, but not as good as pantani on the
climbs. pantani was also the dominant climber in '95. obviously any
tour winner has to climb really well, but indurain was not the best
climber most years he won the tour.
if you look at the results from the '80s and earlier the TTs and
mountain-top finishes were often won by guys who weren't top in GC and
the GC battle was further down the standings. that's sort of what we
saw last year with gontchar being the best TT rider.
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Date: 22 Jul 2007 14:42:32
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Explosion of some Spanish climbers
|
On Jul 22, 2:02 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jul 22, 3:35 pm, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 3:07 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Dumbasses -
>
> > > Pure speculation on my part, but . . .
>
> > > One of the reasons that larger, more powerful riders like Indurain,
> > > Armstrong, Ullrich have been consistent achievers in the TdF over the
> > > years is not only because of their ability to climb and TT (both of
> > > which are essential), but also their ability to handle the chaos in
> > > the opening days of the Tour. Many times in the past we've seen pure
> > > climbers get their legs blown to bits before the race even hit the
> > > mountains (Simoni anyone?).
>
> > > This year it was a little different - there were some slow days and
> > > the climbers all seemed to have their legs under them as the race hit
> > > the Alps. Everyone was in contention through the Alps.
>
> > > Then the race went over the usually uneventful transtion days in
> > > between the Alps and the Pyrenees and voila! Astana put everyone into
> > > difficulty on the crosswind day. Next thing you know, guys like
> > > Valverde and Mayo who formerly were riding very well are now riding
> > > like relative crap.
>
> > > My hypothesis is what Astana did fried those guys.
>
> > > thoughts?
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > > K. Gringioni.
>
> > They fried their own man...Vino, and now Kloden is on the skillet
> > apparently.
>
> dumbass,
>
> it's hard to argue they fried vino when he won he TT and kloden was up
> there was well. it's just that they aren't the top climbers in this
> tour.
>
> until the armstrong era it wasn't common that a rider would dominate
> the TT and the climbs.
Dumbass -
I disagree with that.
Indurain was dominant in the climbs. He wouldn't try and win stages in
the mountains, choosing mostly to attack in the TT's ala Anquetil, but
when he wanted to, he left everyone behind. What was that, 1995? when
Zulle had a 10 minute lead and Indurain rode everyone else off his
wheel, halving the deficit? He likely could have done that more often,
but Indurain chose to ride conservatively most of the time, minimizing
his chances of having a bad day.
The first year Indurain didn't win, Riis was dominant in both climbs
and TTs.
The next year, Ullrich was dominant in both climbs and TTs.
Then came LANCE. Or is it "lance" now that he's retired and Laff@me
doesn't have anything to talk about?
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
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Date: 22 Jul 2007 21:02:20
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Explosion of some Spanish climbers
|
On Jul 22, 3:35 pm, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM > wrote:
> On Jul 22, 3:07 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Dumbasses -
>
> > Pure speculation on my part, but . . .
>
> > One of the reasons that larger, more powerful riders like Indurain,
> > Armstrong, Ullrich have been consistent achievers in the TdF over the
> > years is not only because of their ability to climb and TT (both of
> > which are essential), but also their ability to handle the chaos in
> > the opening days of the Tour. Many times in the past we've seen pure
> > climbers get their legs blown to bits before the race even hit the
> > mountains (Simoni anyone?).
>
> > This year it was a little different - there were some slow days and
> > the climbers all seemed to have their legs under them as the race hit
> > the Alps. Everyone was in contention through the Alps.
>
> > Then the race went over the usually uneventful transtion days in
> > between the Alps and the Pyrenees and voila! Astana put everyone into
> > difficulty on the crosswind day. Next thing you know, guys like
> > Valverde and Mayo who formerly were riding very well are now riding
> > like relative crap.
>
> > My hypothesis is what Astana did fried those guys.
>
> > thoughts?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> They fried their own man...Vino, and now Kloden is on the skillet
> apparently.
dumbass,
it's hard to argue they fried vino when he won he TT and kloden was up
there was well. it's just that they aren't the top climbers in this
tour.
until the armstrong era it wasn't common that a rider would dominate
the TT and the climbs.
|
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Date: 22 Jul 2007 12:35:25
From: Andre
Subject: Re: Explosion of some Spanish climbers
|
On Jul 22, 3:07 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Dumbasses -
>
> Pure speculation on my part, but . . .
>
> One of the reasons that larger, more powerful riders like Indurain,
> Armstrong, Ullrich have been consistent achievers in the TdF over the
> years is not only because of their ability to climb and TT (both of
> which are essential), but also their ability to handle the chaos in
> the opening days of the Tour. Many times in the past we've seen pure
> climbers get their legs blown to bits before the race even hit the
> mountains (Simoni anyone?).
>
> This year it was a little different - there were some slow days and
> the climbers all seemed to have their legs under them as the race hit
> the Alps. Everyone was in contention through the Alps.
>
> Then the race went over the usually uneventful transtion days in
> between the Alps and the Pyrenees and voila! Astana put everyone into
> difficulty on the crosswind day. Next thing you know, guys like
> Valverde and Mayo who formerly were riding very well are now riding
> like relative crap.
>
> My hypothesis is what Astana did fried those guys.
>
> thoughts?
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
They fried their own man...Vino, and now Kloden is on the skillet
apparently. Mayo is very inconsistent, and Valverde....I have no idea
what happened to him, I had him to win it all. Maybe Astana fried him
too.
Andre
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