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Main
Date: 13 Oct 2007 02:23:29
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
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Heras may sign with Astana..!!
(http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
Basso fiasco.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 20:15:51
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
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The US press won't pay much attention to Heras if he is hired by
Astana, but the europrean press will..!! You can be sure that Phil
Ligett and others will mention that Heras is riding for Astana on TV.
This negative publicity is enough to scare away more potential
sponsors. It's going to take a lot of work and time to clean up the
sport.
On Oct 14, 11:27 am, lewdvig <lewd...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > >> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > >> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > >> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > >> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > >> > > Basso fiasco.
>
> > >> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> > >> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>
> > >> -ilan
>
> > > The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> > > couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> > > so that cycling gets a chance to flush this crap out.
>
> > This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the Americans
> > come into it?
>
> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
> American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
> attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
> cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.
>
> Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
> hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
> extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
> linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 11:27:26
From: lewdvig
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
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On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com >
wrote:
> >> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> >> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> >> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> >> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> >> > > Basso fiasco.
>
> >> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> >> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>
> >> -ilan
>
> > The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> > couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> > so that cycling gets a chance to flush this crap out.
>
> This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the Americans
> come into it?
>
The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.
Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 18:09:14
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
"lewdvig" <lewdvig@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192386446.711163.201780@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
> American at the top of the sport.
After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of Americans
will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that is under UCI,
ASO or WADA.
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 19:26:31
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>> American at the top of the sport.
>
> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of Americans
> will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that is under UCI,
> ASO or WADA.
Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care about
cycling in the first place.
Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of the
WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or ASO are.
For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's worth is
yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 20:06:07
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:sdAQi.2626$LD2.590@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>
>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that is
>> under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>
> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care about
> cycling in the first place.
>
> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of the
> WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or ASO are.
> For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's worth is
> yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in every
single written piece? OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN
INTERESTED IN THE TOUR DE FRANCE BEFORE!
It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
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Date: 15 Oct 2007 21:28:28
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
>>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>>
>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that is
>>> under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>
>> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
>> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
>> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care about
>> cycling in the first place.
>>
>> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of the
>> WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or ASO
>> are. For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's worth
>> is yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
>
> Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in every
> single written piece?
Only those that interest me. I doubt that I'm in the top-20 posters here.
>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that is
>>> under UCI, ASO or WADA.
> OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN THE TOUR DE
> FRANCE BEFORE!
Sorry, it didn't come across that way. I didn't realize you were writing
only to the "Americans" who frequent RBR or otherwise care about bike
racing. All 47 of us. Well, OK, maybe a few more than that. : >)
> It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
Noisy playground next door?
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:13h8al1of1ums7d@corp.supernews.com...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:sdAQi.2626$LD2.590@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>>
>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that is
>>> under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>
>> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
>> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
>> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care about
>> cycling in the first place.
>>
>> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of the
>> WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or ASO
>> are. For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's worth
>> is yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
>
> Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in every
> single written piece? OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN
> INTERESTED IN THE TOUR DE FRANCE BEFORE!
>
> It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
>
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 21:03:50
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:N5XQi.4693$R95.1893@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>>>
>>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that
>>>> is under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>>
>>> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
>>> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
>>> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care
>>> about cycling in the first place.
>>>
>>> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of the
>>> WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or ASO
>>> are. For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's worth
>>> is yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
>>
>> Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in every
>> single written piece?
>
> Only those that interest me. I doubt that I'm in the top-20 posters here.
>
>>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that
>>>> is under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>
>> OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN THE TOUR DE
>> FRANCE BEFORE!
>
> Sorry, it didn't come across that way. I didn't realize you were writing
> only to the "Americans" who frequent RBR or otherwise care about bike
> racing. All 47 of us. Well, OK, maybe a few more than that. :>)
>
>> It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
>
> Noisy playground next door?
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
>
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:13h8al1of1ums7d@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:sdAQi.2626$LD2.590@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>>>
>>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that
>>>> is under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>>
>>> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
>>> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
>>> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care
>>> about cycling in the first place.
>>>
>>> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of the
>>> WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or ASO
>>> are. For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's worth
>>> is yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
>>
>> Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in every
>> single written piece? OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN
>> INTERESTED IN THE TOUR DE FRANCE BEFORE!
>>
>> It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
Mike, you're on my top 5 list but that doesn't mean I ain't going to kick
you in the ass.
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Date: 16 Oct 2007 21:38:33
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
> Mike, you're on my top 5 list but that doesn't mean I ain't going to kick
> you in the ass.
What sort of victory would that be? I post here, so I'm as much a loser as
everyone else here!
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:13hb2d9ovvheg97@corp.supernews.com...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:N5XQi.4693$R95.1893@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>>>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that
>>>>> is under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
>>>> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
>>>> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care
>>>> about cycling in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of
>>>> the WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or
>>>> ASO are. For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's
>>>> worth is yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
>>>
>>> Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in
>>> every single written piece?
>>
>> Only those that interest me. I doubt that I'm in the top-20 posters here.
>>
>>>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that
>>>>> is under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>
>>> OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN THE TOUR
>>> DE FRANCE BEFORE!
>>
>> Sorry, it didn't come across that way. I didn't realize you were writing
>> only to the "Americans" who frequent RBR or otherwise care about bike
>> racing. All 47 of us. Well, OK, maybe a few more than that. :>)
>>
>>> It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
>>
>> Noisy playground next door?
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
>> news:13h8al1of1ums7d@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>> news:sdAQi.2626$LD2.590@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>>> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
>>>>>> American at the top of the sport.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the setup of Landis you can bet that a large proportion of
>>>>> Americans will no longer pay the slightest attention to anything that
>>>>> is under UCI, ASO or WADA.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really believe that's true? A "large proportion of Americans"
>>>> probably know so little about cycling that they figure the Marion Jones
>>>> situation is proof that Floyd cheated as well... assuming they care
>>>> about cycling in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> Marion Jones will definitely bolster the general public's opinion of
>>>> the WADA's work. 99.97%, however, wouldn't have a clue who the UCI or
>>>> ASO are. For that 99.97%, Landis as a means of questioning the WADA's
>>>> worth is yesterday's news. No longer relevant.
>>>
>>> Give me a break Mike - do you really need to have your hand held in
>>> every single written piece? OF COURSE I MEANT THOSE AMERICANS WHO HAVE
>>> BEEN INTERESTED IN THE TOUR DE FRANCE BEFORE!
>>>
>>> It would really be nice if school was out for the winter.
>
> Mike, you're on my top 5 list but that doesn't mean I ain't going to kick
> you in the ass.
>
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 22:46:22
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
>> This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the
>> Americans
>> come into it?
>>
>
> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
> American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
> attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
> cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.
Ah, I see. So those creating the scandals, by leaking information, bear no
responsibility? Probably not, because they're not American.
It's not as if American media is doing any real investigative reporting
that's turning up anything new. Most assuredly they are NOT. All they're
doing is reporting whatever L'Equipe or David Walsh or whomever have to say.
> Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
> hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
> extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
> linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.
Just because I read it here first doesn't mean I understand it. And if I
don't understand it, it's tough to validate it.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"lewdvig" <lewdvig@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192386446.711163.201780@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>> >> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will
>> >> > > lose
>> >> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> >> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> >> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> >> > > Basso fiasco.
>>
>> >> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
>> >> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>>
>> >> -ilan
>>
>> > The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
>> > couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
>> > so that cycling gets a chance to flush this crap out.
>>
>> This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the
>> Americans
>> come into it?
>>
>
> The mainstream US media won't pay as much attention without an
> American at the top of the sport. It would be nice to have their
> attention focused somewhere else. The only thing they report on re:
> cycling are the scandals. So no news would be good news IMO.
>
> Astana will have a big bullseye on their jerseys. WADA will be
> hounding these guys all year. They will dope, and without Lance's
> extreme paranoia they will be caught, and then everything will be
> linked back to Lance (with or without proof). You read it here first.
>
>
|
| |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 11:22:33
From: lewdvig
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
|
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Date: 14 Oct 2007 01:10:10
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
Let's be clear about this. It makes no sense for a team that has had
doping problems to go and hire another doper who just came off
suspension. There has been serious damage done to the sport by the
dopers. They have shown callous disregard for the sport. It has gotten
much more difficult to find sponsors now. The media and other are
calling the tdf the "Tour de Farce". We need a lifetime ban now for
any rider who tests positive.
Hera's will be allowed to ride again, but I doubt the tour organizers
will allow him to participate.
On Oct 13, 2:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com >
wrote:
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.
>
> Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
> you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
> only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
> halfway-house sort of deal?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.
|
| |
Date: 13 Oct 2007 14:57:14
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
<hizark21@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>
> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> Basso fiasco.
So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a clean
team but signing Heras means the opposite?
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| | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 04:37:41
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:13h2fpt2tdf6i95@corp.supernews.com...
> <hizark21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>>
>> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> Basso fiasco.
>
> So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a
> clean team but signing Heras means the opposite?
One not-entirely-subtle difference is that David Millar eventually fessed
up, big time, and has been quite up-front about what he did, and repentent
as well. Heras? What have we heard from him during his suspension? David
Millar managed to put himself into the position of poster-child for the
reformed doper. I think that's a significant difference.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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| | | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 06:42:08
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
In article <p2hQi.58388$Um6.9063@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:13h2fpt2tdf6i95@corp.supernews.com...
> > <hizark21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> >> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
> >>
> >> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> >> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> >> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> >> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> >> Basso fiasco.
> >
> > So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a
> > clean team but signing Heras means the opposite?
>
> One not-entirely-subtle difference is that David Millar eventually fessed
> up, big time, and has been quite up-front about what he did, and repentent
> as well. Heras? What have we heard from him during his suspension? David
> Millar managed to put himself into the position of poster-child for the
> reformed doper. I think that's a significant difference.
What's that line from Gone With the Wind? It's a scene between Ben
Franklin and Scarlett O'Hara:
BEN FRANKLIN: You are not sorry you committed wrong, but you are very
sorry you got caught.
In fairness to Millar, his repentance seems sincere, but I haven't heard
much of Heras since his conviction, and that may have a lot to do with
him being a Spaniard as opposed to a member of the Anglosphere. Millar's
interviews and feelings have been well-reported in the English press.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Oct 2007 07:31:41
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-7C4D8D.23420713102007@news.telus.net...
> In article <p2hQi.58388$Um6.9063@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
>> news:13h2fpt2tdf6i95@corp.supernews.com...
>> > <hizark21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> >> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> >> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>> >>
>> >> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> >> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> >> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> >> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> >> Basso fiasco.
>> >
>> > So what you're saying is that signing David Millar means that you're a
>> > clean team but signing Heras means the opposite?
>>
>> One not-entirely-subtle difference is that David Millar eventually fessed
>> up, big time, and has been quite up-front about what he did, and
>> repentent
>> as well. Heras? What have we heard from him during his suspension? David
>> Millar managed to put himself into the position of poster-child for the
>> reformed doper. I think that's a significant difference.
>
> What's that line from Gone With the Wind? It's a scene between Ben
> Franklin and Scarlett O'Hara:
>
> BEN FRANKLIN: You are not sorry you committed wrong, but you are very
> sorry you got caught.
>
> In fairness to Millar, his repentance seems sincere, but I haven't heard
> much of Heras since his conviction, and that may have a lot to do with
> him being a Spaniard as opposed to a member of the Anglosphere. Millar's
> interviews and feelings have been well-reported in the English press.
How's your Spanish? What Spanish sports newspapers do you subscribe to? I
mean, you seem so interested in Heras and yet my guess is that you wouldn't
bother one second to actually look it up.
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 14:44:37
From: lewdvig
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
On Oct 13, 3:37 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 13, 11:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>
> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > > Basso fiasco.
>
> > Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
> > you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
> > only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
> > halfway-house sort of deal?
>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> > <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>
> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > > Basso fiasco.
>
> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>
> -ilan
The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
so that cycling gets a chance to flush this crap out.
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 16:25:55
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
>> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> > > Basso fiasco.
>>
>> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
>> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>>
>> -ilan
>
> The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> so that cycling gets a chance to flush this crap out.
This thread has dealt with Heras, Bruyneel and Basso. Where do the Americans
come into it?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"lewdvig" <lewdvig@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192311877.991396.106310@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 3:37 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 11:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>>
>> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> > > Basso fiasco.
>>
>> > Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or
>> > are
>> > you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there
>> > should
>> > only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind
>> > of a
>> > halfway-house sort of deal?
>>
>> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>>
>> > <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
>> > > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>>
>> > > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
>> > > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
>> > > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
>> > > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
>> > > Basso fiasco.
>>
>> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
>> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
>>
>> -ilan
>
> The 'optics' of this will look so bad to the regular media. I hope a
> couple of years pass without an american at the pinnacle of the sport
> so that cycling gets a chance to flush this crap out.
>
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 21:37:30
From:
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
On Oct 13, 11:26 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com >
wrote:
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.
>
> Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
> you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
> only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
> halfway-house sort of deal?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> > (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html)
>
> > Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> > any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> > insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> > maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> > Basso fiasco.
Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
-ilan
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 15:01:21
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
<ilanpsi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192311450.001087.240220@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Maybe he's suggesting what the Stuttgart people did, that people be
> banned because they belong to an era where doping is prevalent.
You've seen the sort of postings here that cry that everyone has been doping
and anyone that does well must categorically be a doper. Why you'd think
that they don't understand anything at all about what dope does.
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 14:26:48
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>
> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> Basso fiasco.
Hardly. Heras has served his time, and will be watched like a hawk. Or are
you suggesting that the ban for doping should be life? Or that there should
only be certain teams convicted dopers are allowed to be part of, kind of a
halfway-house sort of deal?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
<hizark21@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1192267409.758722.259530@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Heras may sign with Astana..!!
> (http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13496.0.html )
>
> Let's hope this is a bad rumor. If Astana signs Heras they will lose
> any credibility and hopefully will be kept out of the TDF. If they
> insist on signing Heras then Bruyneel must resign if he hopes to
> maintain any credibility. Signing Heras would be a repeat of the
> Basso fiasco.
>
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 20:59:53
From:
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
On Oct 13, 9:21 pm, "hizar...@yahoo.com" <hizar...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Oct 13, 9:42 am, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
> > lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?
>
> > I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> > kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> > excellent results.
>
> It's really a matter PR more than anything else. After the doping
> scandals Astana had this year they cannot afford to have a rider who
> is a doper. As for the UCI ban it's the teams and the race organizers
> choice to let a rider race or not. But as I have said before I believe
> in a first use lifetime ban. Bernard Hinault recently called for first
> use lifetime ban as well.
If you believe that your opinion also applies to newsgroups, then we
should never hear from you again.
-ilan
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 14:59:35
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
<ilanpsi@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1192309193.153213.289230@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
> If you believe that your opinion also applies to newsgroups, then we
> should never hear from you again.
We should be so lucky.
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 12:21:16
From: hizark21@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
On Oct 13, 9:42 am, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
> lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?
>
> I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> excellent results.
It's really a matter PR more than anything else. After the doping
scandals Astana had this year they cannot afford to have a rider who
is a doper. As for the UCI ban it's the teams and the race organizers
choice to let a rider race or not. But as I have said before I believe
in a first use lifetime ban. Bernard Hinault recently called for first
use lifetime ban as well.
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 09:42:26
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
So I guess you feel that a rider who tests positive should receive a
lifetime ban, even though the rules call for a 2-year ban...?
I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
excellent results.
|
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Date: 13 Oct 2007 20:19:27
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Heras may sign with Astana..!!
|
Ron Ruff wrote:
> I knew that Bruyneel would be a hot property because he successfully
> kept anyone on his team from ever getting caught... while also getting
> excellent results.
Heras should be as clean as Armstrong from now on.
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