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Date: 26 May 2007 20:52:27
From:
Subject: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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Taking a brief break from War on Terror issues to write about this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/cyclings-latest-scandal_b_49551.html
--Shane
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Date: 27 May 2007 14:59:55
From:
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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> >I have never followed all the crap but that is the first time I have heard
> >someone accuse LANCE of actually GIVING himself the cancer so he could
> >cheat.....
>
> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55032
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
Very funny, JT. I've corrected the post to make crystal-clear the
implication that the cancer was the side effect of doping.
The general notion of doping for weight loss was briefly discussed
here during the Ullrich ecstasy scandal (in the context of "how could
E be [cycling-]performance enhancing?"). But I don't think anyone has
even speculated in print about those three using artificial means to
drop lean body weight. (Of course, not all of the lost weight was
muscle -- even Riis was a bit fat for a racer in the early days, I am
told.)
Other than Alex Zulle, has there ever been a more real (in the sense
of "less phony") confession than this one? I think not.--Shane
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Date: 27 May 2007 10:33:13
From: ST
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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On 5/26/07 8:52 PM, in article
1180237947.649595.321800@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
"shayana.kadidal@gmail.com" <shayana.kadidal@gmail.com > wrote:
> Taking a brief break from War on Terror issues to write about this:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/cyclings-latest-scandal_b_49551.
> html
>
> --Shane
>
I have never followed all the crap but that is the first time I have heard
someone accuse LANCE of actually GIVING himself the cancer so he could
cheat.....
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Date: 27 May 2007 16:19:03
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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On Sun, 27 May 2007 10:33:13 -0700, ST <no@no.com > wrote:
>I have never followed all the crap but that is the first time I have heard
>someone accuse LANCE of actually GIVING himself the cancer so he could
>cheat.....
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55032
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 27 May 2007 10:37:07
From: B. Lafferty
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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<shayana.kadidal@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1180237947.649595.321800@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> Taking a brief break from War on Terror issues to write about this:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/cyclings-latest-scandal_b_49551.html
>
> --Shane
>
Do you believe?
"Armstrong's former director, Jim Ochowitz, once said the Tour was hard to
win even if you are on drugs. Likewise, Riis today says "I'm proud of my
results even though they were not completely honest." But the story of
journeyman to star - so well-matched to the temperament of this rural,
"effort-over-skill" sport's traditional fanbase - is dead. "For those for
whom I was a hero," Riis said on Friday, "I'm sorry. They'll have to find
new heroes now." And what of that other cycling hero, the one with the
miraculous story of finding inspiration for life in death? Was he also
self-made, in two senses? Did he (like that slugger who "confessed" to
wrongdoing but refused to specify what he did) give himself the near-fatal
illness that now defines him? And then sell his soul to the Devil again to
come back stronger than ever?"
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Date: 26 May 2007 22:06:48
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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In article <1180237947.649595.321800@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com >,
shayana.kadidal@gmail.com wrote:
> Taking a brief break from War on Terror issues to write about this:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/cyclings-latest-scandal_b_49551.
> html
>
> --Shane
Good article. Since the "Mr. 60%" label came form the '96 Festina Tour squad [1],
it would be very interesting to know exactly what *their* hematocrit numbers were. I
would sort of quibble with the assertion that Riis was a "cagey but giftless no-name
support rider" before they started using EPO. He did ride as a domestique for most of
the time prior to being on Gewiss in '94, so he really didn't have much opportunity
to show what he really had. He did start to show some results while on Ceramiche
Ariostea in '92 but he did have a stage win (stage 9) in the Giro as far back as '89
(while on Castorama). It seems pretty obvious now that the use of EPO was possibly
perfected, if not pioneered by the Gewiss squad, but I wonder if Riis was doing some
experimenting on his own prior to then. But if there wasn't any significant use of
doping prior to the early '90s, then I'd say he did have some talent.
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/e667370213396bdd
http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/hof/danmark.Riis.htm
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 27 May 2007 11:21:42
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-shoesbomb.com > wrote:
> Good article. Since the "Mr. 60%" label came form the '96 Festina Tour squad [1],
> it would be very interesting to know exactly what *their* hematocrit numbers were. I
> would sort of quibble with the assertion that Riis was a "cagey but giftless no-name
> support rider" before they started using EPO. He did ride as a domestique for most of
> the time prior to being on Gewiss in '94, so he really didn't have much opportunity
> to show what he really had. He did start to show some results while on Ceramiche
> Ariostea in '92 but he did have a stage win (stage 9) in the Giro as far back as '89
> (while on Castorama).
Riis won the following in 89/90: 1 Giro stage, 3 Tour L'Avenir stages,
and a danish RR championship - all prior to his doping useage, and a
nice result list for a 25 year old Castorama domestic where everything
was about Fignon.
He didn't win anything in 91 (Castorama) or 92 (Ariostea) - EPO
ussage in the peloton exploded outside spain and italy in 91 and 92.
Riis claims that he didn't learn how to train until he moved to
Ariostea in 92 where he also started loosing a significant amount of
weight.
Riis started doping whith EPO, Cortizone and growth hormones while on
Ariostea in 93 and suddenly began winning races again. Riis joined
Gewis ballan in 94.
Riis didn't become a teamleader until he joined Telekom in 96.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 May 2007 12:17:07
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
> Riis claims that he didn't learn how to train until he moved to
> Ariostea in 92 where he also started loosing a significant amount of
> weight.
This is the third high-profile example recently cited on RBR (Riis,
Indurain, Armstrong) of someone dropping a lot of weight *and* being
suspected of doping.
Is anybody claiming that their weight loss is drug-related? I gather
testosterone might help reduce body fat percentage, but I thought by
building lean muscle rather than eliminating fat, and I didn't think
testosterone was a doping agent of choice in the '90s.
Mark J.
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Date: 27 May 2007 21:19:50
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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In article <mPSdnY4llM6pRMTbnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@comcast.com >,
Mark <remove.mandmlj.this@remove.comcast.this.net > wrote:
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
>
> > Riis claims that he didn't learn how to train until he moved to
> > Ariostea in 92 where he also started loosing a significant amount of
> > weight.
>
> This is the third high-profile example recently cited on RBR (Riis,
> Indurain, Armstrong) of someone dropping a lot of weight *and* being
> suspected of doping.
>
> Is anybody claiming that their weight loss is drug-related? I gather
> testosterone might help reduce body fat percentage, but I thought by
> building lean muscle rather than eliminating fat, and I didn't think
> testosterone was a doping agent of choice in the '90s.
>
> Mark J.
The argument is that weight loss is credited with an implausibly large
performance boost. I don't know if that's a fair or unfair accusation.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 27 May 2007 23:02:37
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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Mark <remove.mandmlj.this@remove.comcast.this.net > wrote:
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
> > Riis claims that he didn't learn how to train until he moved to
> > Ariostea in 92 where he also started loosing a significant amount of
> > weight.
> This is the third high-profile example recently cited on RBR (Riis,
> Indurain, Armstrong) of someone dropping a lot of weight *and* being
> suspected of doping.
can't really se your point...
Riis says that he learned how to train and the significance of
looseing weight i 92, witch wasen't enough to start winning again. He
didn't start winning again until he began doping with EPO , growth
hormone and contizone i 93.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 May 2007 05:37:53
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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On Sat, 26 May 2007 22:06:48 -0700, Howard Kveck
<YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
>But if there wasn't any significant use of
>doping prior to the early '90s, then I'd say he did have some talent.
Every pro on a top team like System U has some talent.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 27 May 2007 09:04:28
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Huffington Blog post on Riis confession
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In article <2bki53p7ilqb7lgcica341iq901ifko0oe@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 22:06:48 -0700, Howard Kveck
> <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> >But if there wasn't any significant use of
> >doping prior to the early '90s, then I'd say he did have some talent.
> Every pro on a top team like System U has some talent.
Exactly - he wouldn't have gotten there if he didn't have any.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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