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Main
Date: 14 Nov 2007 04:21:03
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Interesting
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Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news. Choose
one:
a. everyone knew he was lying
b. everyone's sick of doping crap
c. everyone is dumbstruck
d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
e. both a & b above
--
JF
"A really great man is known by three signs,--generosity in the design,
humanity in the execution, and moderation in success."
- Karl Otto von Schonhausen Bismarck
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 18:49:27
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
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On Nov 13, 11:21 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net > wrote:
> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
dumbass,
it's not interesting to rbr because he hasn't tested positive or
admitted to doping. so he can play the plausible deniability card.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 08:48:51
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
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On Nov 15, 10:02 am, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 14, 6:49 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 13, 11:21 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > > Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
>
> > it's not interesting to rbr because he hasn't tested positive or
> > admitted to doping. so he can play the plausible deniability card.
>
> What does it matter since you convicted him the second he did well in
> the Tour?
dumbass,
it doesn't matter to me, but if i thought my girlfriend was cheating
on me or my kid was doing drugs even though i didn't catch them red
handed i would look into it.
the cycling bosses took the passive approach and by the time the proof
comes to them (for instance all the doping admissions this year) it's
too late - every big money sponsor has left (or will leave) the sport
and formerly top riders are scrambling to get on 2nd and 3rd tier
squads.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 17:29:32
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Interesting
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<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:8f6a2a3f-dc7b-4e62-acc1-16ee85820c15@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> the cycling bosses took the passive approach and by the time the proof
> comes to them (for instance all the doping admissions this year) it's
> too late - every big money sponsor has left (or will leave) the sport
> and formerly top riders are scrambling to get on 2nd and 3rd tier
> squads.
So, you don't believe that is an effective method of controlling doping?
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 07:02:54
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 14, 6:49 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Nov 13, 11:21 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
>
> it's not interesting to rbr because he hasn't tested positive or
> admitted to doping. so he can play the plausible deniability card.
What does it matter since you convicted him the second he did well in
the Tour?
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 01:04:43
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Interesting
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In article <PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82 >,
"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net > wrote:
> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news. Choose
> one:
>
> a. everyone knew he was lying
> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
> c. everyone is dumbstruck
> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
> e. both a & b above
I think he is lying about lying.
He really was in Mexico, but had
to cut a deal and read a prepared statement.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 06:51:52
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
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On Nov 14, 8:17 am, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 14, 12:19 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jim Flom wrote:
> > >> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
> > rechungREMOVETHIS wrote:
> > > You mean, that he hung on to be re-elected PM of Denmark? Yeah, I guess
> > > that was kinda surprising, since no one has led his party to three
> > > consecutive parliamentary victories in a while.
>
> > If they had random dope tests for politicians there'd be a lot of
> > positives.
>
> If they had random doping tests for most of the posters here they'd
> have aced the test.
Dope test. Ace.
Anyone? --D-y
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 06:17:18
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 14, 12:19 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Jim Flom wrote:
> >> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
> rechungREMOVETHIS wrote:
> > You mean, that he hung on to be re-elected PM of Denmark? Yeah, I guess
> > that was kinda surprising, since no one has led his party to three
> > consecutive parliamentary victories in a while.
>
> If they had random dope tests for politicians there'd be a lot of
> positives.
If they had random doping tests for most of the posters here they'd
have aced the test.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 08:23:53
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
Dans le message de news:PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82,
Jim Flom <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news. Choose
> one:
>
> a. everyone knew he was lying
> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
> c. everyone is dumbstruck
> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
> e. both a & b above
Where Lafferty failed to convince, facts have done so.
Seems he needs no press, since the topic is the only one left here, except
cross and politics.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 13:22:25
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 15, 11:48 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article <473bc123$0$8877$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>
> "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
> > Dans le message denews:Ff-dnbSZeaWFO6banZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com,
> > Phil Holman <piholmanc@yourservice> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et puis a d=E9clar=
=E9 :
> > > "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote in message
> > >news:473af6e9$0$28866$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> > >> Dans le message denews:PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82,
> > >> Jim Flom <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et puis a d=E9cla=
r=E9 :
> > >>> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
> > >>> Choose one:
>
> > >>> a. everyone knew he was lying
> > >>> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
> > >>> c. everyone is dumbstruck
> > >>> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
> > >>> e. both a & b above
>
> > >> Where Lafferty failed to convince, facts have done so.
>
> > > Lafferty failed to convince that LA doped (his main focus). Which
> > > facts have done so?
>
> > > Phil H
>
> > If he had a fixation on Armstrong, he also spent enough time trying to t=
ake
> > off the communal blinders to the pervasiveness of the drug culture. The=
re
> > are some people who may have been more cunning avoiding being caught. M=
aybe
> > like your hero.
>
> It is difficult to discuss the past. I strongly
> disagree with your characterization. My attitude was
> always "sure they use drugs, what's the problem?"
> Testing should be transparent, even handed, conducted
> without fanfare, penalties moderate, and no take backs.
> First across the line goes into the record books.
> Others seemed to share this attitute: a kind of good
> natured cynicism. The backlash against rabid
> anti-doping has always been against the implicit
> totalitarianism, not clinging to illusion.
That's a pretty good analysis Michael. I lost a lot of friends and a
brother to dope and I sure as hell am against it. Biut I'm against
doping for a lot of different reasons. But I also realize that it is
hard to control a bunch of young punks who can make or break a career
from ONE good race. Should I call Rassmussen on every possible villany
because he beat others whom are equally difficult to trust?
As you say - testing has to be professional and not the rank stupid
ass amatuer stuff we've been seeing from the French. I'm not willing
to accept, "We're absolutely certain despite not having science behind
us."
Penalties are pertinent to THAT RACE and no others. Catching them at
one race doesn't mean that you caught them at others.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 09:01:56
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 15, 8:47 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Nov 14, 9:46 pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote:
>
> > If he had a fixation on Armstrong, he also spent enough time trying to take
> > off the communal blinders to the pervasiveness of the drug culture.
>
> (Open to correction) (IMS) He stated he thought racers should be able
> to use whatever they wanted, with a "sign-off".
>
> Armstrong's personality or something rubbed him the wrong way,
> apparently through to the marrow. Everything else was leftovers.
>
dumbass,
lafferty's obsession with armstrong started as a proxy war against
USAC and the powers that control it. his crusade wasn't so much about
doping as it is about his personal axe grinding.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 07:06:31
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 15, 5:47 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
>
> Others were more direct with their assault (to use the word) on the
> doping culture and "blinders". Lafferty was allaboutLance.
Lafferty made the phrase, "stupid jackass" seem inappropriately mild.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 07:04:36
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 14, 7:46 pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:Ff-dnbSZeaWFO6banZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com,
> Phil Holman <piholmanc@yourservice> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et puis a d=E9clar=E9 =
:
>
> >> Where Lafferty failed to convince, facts have done so.
>
> > Lafferty failed to convince that LA doped (his main focus). Which
> > facts have done so?
>
> If he had a fixation on Armstrong, he also spent enough time trying to tak=
e
> off the communal blinders to the pervasiveness of the drug culture. There=
> are some people who may have been more cunning avoiding being caught. May=
be
> like your hero.
Ahhm, yes, the French conviction that proof lies in the total lack of
proof.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 05:47:15
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 14, 9:46 pm, "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr > wrote:
> If he had a fixation on Armstrong, he also spent enough time trying to take
> off the communal blinders to the pervasiveness of the drug culture.
(Open to correction) (IMS) He stated he thought racers should be able
to use whatever they wanted, with a "sign-off".
Armstrong's personality or something rubbed him the wrong way,
apparently through to the marrow. Everything else was leftovers.
> There
> are some people who may have been more cunning avoiding being caught. Maybe
> like your hero.
Others were more direct with their assault (to use the word) on the
doping culture and "blinders". Lafferty was allaboutLance.
Cunning, lucky, brave. Sounds like a potential Tour winner! --D-y
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 17:51:17
From: Phil Holman
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
"Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr > wrote in message
news:473af6e9$0$28866$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Dans le message de news:PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82,
> Jim Flom <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
>> Choose one:
>>
>> a. everyone knew he was lying
>> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
>> c. everyone is dumbstruck
>> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
>> e. both a & b above
>
> Where Lafferty failed to convince, facts have done so.
Lafferty failed to convince that LA doped (his main focus). Which facts
have done so?
Phil H
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 22:46:55
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
Dans le message de news:Ff-dnbSZeaWFO6banZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com,
Phil Holman <piholmanc@yourservice > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
> news:473af6e9$0$28866$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Dans le message de news:PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82,
>> Jim Flom <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
>>> Choose one:
>>>
>>> a. everyone knew he was lying
>>> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
>>> c. everyone is dumbstruck
>>> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
>>> e. both a & b above
>>
>> Where Lafferty failed to convince, facts have done so.
>
> Lafferty failed to convince that LA doped (his main focus). Which
> facts have done so?
>
> Phil H
If he had a fixation on Armstrong, he also spent enough time trying to take
off the communal blinders to the pervasiveness of the drug culture. There
are some people who may have been more cunning avoiding being caught. Maybe
like your hero.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
"Le Vin est la plus saine et la plus hygiénique des boissons."
- Louis Pasteur
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 19:48:04
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
In article <473bc123$0$8877$4c368faf@roadrunner.com >,
"Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message de news:Ff-dnbSZeaWFO6banZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com,
> Phil Holman <piholmanc@yourservice> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> > "Sandy" <leurrre@free.fr> wrote in message
> > news:473af6e9$0$28866$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> Dans le message de news:PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82,
> >> Jim Flom <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> >>> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
> >>> Choose one:
> >>>
> >>> a. everyone knew he was lying
> >>> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
> >>> c. everyone is dumbstruck
> >>> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
> >>> e. both a & b above
> >>
> >> Where Lafferty failed to convince, facts have done so.
> >
> > Lafferty failed to convince that LA doped (his main focus). Which
> > facts have done so?
> >
> > Phil H
>
> If he had a fixation on Armstrong, he also spent enough time trying to take
> off the communal blinders to the pervasiveness of the drug culture. There
> are some people who may have been more cunning avoiding being caught. Maybe
> like your hero.
It is difficult to discuss the past. I strongly
disagree with your characterization. My attitude was
always "sure they use drugs, what's the problem?"
Testing should be transparent, even handed, conducted
without fanfare, penalties moderate, and no take backs.
First across the line goes into the record books.
Others seemed to share this attitute: a kind of good
natured cynicism. The backlash against rabid
anti-doping has always been against the implicit
totalitarianism, not clinging to illusion.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 16 Nov 2007 09:57:44
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
Michael Press wrote:
> It is difficult to discuss the past. I strongly disagree with your
> characterization. My attitude was always "sure they use drugs, what's the
> problem?" Testing should be transparent, even handed, conducted without
> fanfare, penalties moderate, and no take backs. First across the line goes
> into the record books. Others seemed to share this attitute: a kind of
> good natured cynicism. The backlash against rabid anti-doping has always
> been against the implicit totalitarianism, not clinging to illusion.
Particularly when WADA/Pound come up with absurdly overdramatic
statements like:
"Doping is without doubt the greatest threat ethical sport has ever
known and has become so pervasive that it places public health at
grave risk. It is incumbent upon the Sport Movement and Governments
of the world to continue to bolster efforts to battle the scourge of
doping"
Lets put terrorism, climate change, peace in the middle east and
high oil prices on the backburner while we solve the scourge of
drugs in an entertainment industry. And of course we all know
how successful the war on recreational drugs has been.
Sounds like a good way to get the WADA government grants increased
though and better pay for all those selfless WADA souls and at the
same time another excuse for, as our SLAVE would say, letting the
guvmints get their greasy paws into yet another area.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 04:46:23
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 13, 10:21 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net > wrote:
f. Wants to go back to omerta.
g. Wants to test the testers, all year 'round, unannounced, 5 a.m.,
perpetual notification of whereabouts, lifetime bans, forfeiture of a
year's wages, pictures in the newspapers, etc. etc. All in the name
of true purity and justice. --D-y
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 21:27:55
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote in message
news:1195044383.101837.50540@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 13, 10:21 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> f. Wants to go back to omerta.
>
> g. Wants to test the testers, all year 'round, unannounced, 5 a.m.,
> perpetual notification of whereabouts, lifetime bans, forfeiture of a
> year's wages, pictures in the newspapers, etc. etc. All in the name
> of true purity and justice. --D-y
Oh, but that would be harassment.
--
JF
"A really great man is known by three signs,--generosity in the design,
humanity in the execution, and moderation in success."
- Karl Otto von Schonhausen Bismarck
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 06:56:14
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:21:03 GMT, "Jim Flom"
<jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net > wrote:
>Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news. Choose
>one:
>
>a. everyone knew he was lying
>b. everyone's sick of doping crap
>c. everyone is dumbstruck
>d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
>e. both a & b above
Yeah, E for me. I was surprised that the Rabo team knew some of this
before the start of the race.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 00:24:57
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news. Choose
> one:
>
> a. everyone knew he was lying
> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
> c. everyone is dumbstruck
> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
> e. both a & b above
How about f?
Absolutely nothing new or earth-shaking revealed. The only thing noteworthy
would have been if Rasmussen had, in fact, played by the rules and the team
screwed up. But that's not the case. It just looks as if Rasmussen was
stupid and wasted a lot of people's time... that time wasted only because
people couldn't believe he'd be so dumb, so they might have been inclined to
try and believe him. But in the end, he supplied all the rope need to hang
himself. Just as had appeared to be the case from the beginning.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Jim Flom" <jim.flomREMOVE@telus.net > wrote in message
news:PIu_i.18875$8S5.16367@edtnps82...
> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news. Choose
> one:
>
> a. everyone knew he was lying
> b. everyone's sick of doping crap
> c. everyone is dumbstruck
> d. everyone's a dumbf*ck
> e. both a & b above
>
> --
> JF
>
> "A really great man is known by three signs,--generosity in the design,
> humanity in the execution, and moderation in success."
> - Karl Otto von Schonhausen Bismarck
>
>
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 13:12:29
From: Alexander Lackner
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
well he *is* trying to put a new spin on the thing, claiming "marital"
reasons for lying re his whereabouts. Let's see- his wife is mexican, and he
tells here he's over to see her folks while he's really in Europe... smart
huh.
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Date: 15 Nov 2007 14:41:25
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
Alexander Lackner wrote:
> well he *is* trying to put a new spin on the thing, claiming "marital"
> reasons for lying re his whereabouts. Let's see- his wife is mexican, and
> he tells here he's over to see her folks while he's really in Europe...
> smart huh.
Perhaps his mother in law will apply sanctions.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 18:48:12
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
> But that's not the case. It just looks as if Rasmussen was
> stupid and wasted a lot of people's time... that time wasted only because
> people couldn't believe he'd be so dumb, so they might have been inclined to
> try and believe him.
dumbass,
or he was just doing what any good doper would do - exploiting
weaknesses in the system to avoid detection.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 18:44:05
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 14, 3:36 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > Absolutely nothing new or earth-shaking revealed. The only thing noteworthy
> > would have been if Rasmussen had, in fact, played by the rules and the team
> > screwed up. But that's not the case.
>
> The team did screw up. They said: you can't do that and if you do it
> anyway it's your own responsibility and we want nothing to do with it.
> It's a meaningless disclaimer because afterwards they still put him on
> the team.
dumbass,
that's because they didn't care. it only became an issue after his
whereabouts in june became in issue during the tour.
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 09:36:10
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Absolutely nothing new or earth-shaking revealed. The only thing noteworthy
> would have been if Rasmussen had, in fact, played by the rules and the team
> screwed up. But that's not the case.
The team did screw up. They said: you can't do that and if you do it
anyway it's your own responsibility and we want nothing to do with it.
It's a meaningless disclaimer because afterwards they still put him on
the team. Rasmussen's court case against the team looks valid in that
regard.
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 14 Nov 2007 07:31:46
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
* <***@telus.net > a écrit profondement:
|
| |
Date: 13 Nov 2007 20:34:49
From:
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
On Nov 13, 8:21 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net > wrote:
> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
You mean, that he hung on to be re-elected PM of Denmark? Yeah, I
guess that was kinda surprising, since no one has led his party to
three consecutive parliamentary victories in a while.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Nov 2007 10:19:27
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Interesting
|
Jim Flom wrote:
>> Interesting that no one (in RBR) is surprised at Rasmussen's news.
rechungREMOVETHIS wrote:
> You mean, that he hung on to be re-elected PM of Denmark? Yeah, I guess
> that was kinda surprising, since no one has led his party to three
> consecutive parliamentary victories in a while.
If they had random dope tests for politicians there'd be a lot of
positives.
|
|
