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Main
Date: 19 May 2007 09:42:43
From: Sandy
Subject: Joe Papp
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The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how systematic
and thorough the doping system is within the professional cyclist
population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level racing.
Things to watch for :
Identification of the California drug program doctor and consequences ;
Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for various PED's
;
Real and lasting disappointment of cycling fans ;
Potential for monitoring prescriptions for PED's (Italy has already promised
this).
I'm trying very hard to keep an open mind about Landis, but it will take a
convincing performance by him and his team to win this arbitration, IMO. I
truly hope Mark Hickey is watching with an equally open mind.
--
Sandy
Ce n'est pas que j'ai peur de la mort.
Je veux seulement ne pas être là
quand elle arrivera.
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Date: 20 May 2007 15:43:47
From: excel_sports@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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> I'm sure it was cool ... but these seemed to be mostly small-time
> races ridden by small-time teams. It's not that hard to take out an
> international license with the USCF and go race overseas, not work,
> and call yourself a professional cyclist. Yes, he did at least have
> the legs to at least get some results -- more than a lot of guys can
> say (though never with anything resembling a real pro team, it seems).
Hold on a minute! I thought Papp retired to help his cuban wife gain
entry to this country! However, he was really serving a drug
suspension?! How come USAC announces every nobody suspension or
missed test but Papp's never made news? How come Cyclingnews.com
forgot to run that story too?
I'll tell you, I'm not sure he had any 'legs' based on my personal
experience and the litany of endless Papp stories I've heard. Does
anyone recall how he made it to the winning break at Univest in '99?
Anyone remember Papp getting busted for sitting out laps of a crit?
Anyone really have any sympathy for Papp? I sure don't. Papp was a
scum bag. Nonetheless, he deserves some props because he was like Lex
Luthor, with some kind of scheme to rule the cycling world...maybe
this is just the first step to moving into the CEO chair at USAC.
When Joe Papp is involved, anything is possible...even a little
cheating.
CH
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Date: 20 May 2007 15:35:52
From: excel_sports@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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> I'm sure it was cool ... but these seemed to be mostly small-time
> races ridden by small-time teams. It's not that hard to take out an
> international license with the USCF and go race overseas, not work,
> and call yourself a professional cyclist. Yes, he did at least have
> the legs to at least get some results -- more than a lot of guys can
> say (though never with anything resembling a real pro team, it seems).
Are you sure they were his legs? My recollection of Papp was someone
who hid in buhes to win races and occassionally got busted; anyone
recall when and how he made the winning break at Univest in '99? He
had quite a few people wondering.
Hey wait, I thought Papp retired to help his 'wife'. Turns out he
really was the scum bag most people knew him to be and he finally got
publically busted for something! I knew only one Joe Papp and he
cared for only one person, Joe Papp. I could go on all day here, but
it's Papp, so who gives a shit!
CH
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Date: 19 May 2007 22:13:50
From: billyroll
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On May 19, 4:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On 19 May 2007 04:27:17 -0700, "derFah...@gmail.com"
>
> <derFah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Papp was a $12k dreamer ... if he was lucky.
>
> Not defending Papp, but he was different than that. He got to race,
> and occassionally win, all over the world. That's different than the
> dreamers sucking it up a NRC races around the US with maybe a trip to
> Vancouver ever few years for Gastown.
>
> Sounds like a cool adventure.
>
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
Yeah must've been fun. Woulda like to have done it myself... But where
has that got him now?
Plus, he was still a dick, regardless of where he raced.
-B
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Date: 19 May 2007 12:09:07
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On May 19, 11:55 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> > I take that back. They care about as much as they care about doping in
> > bodybuilding.
>
> Let's see if I can explain it better. Not only cyclists, but attorneys l=
ike
> winning. For these guys, the na=EFvet=E9 of the cycling dopers allows an=
easy
> win, if the feds put in an effort, a modest one. So then they can win. =
Add
> up a point, with little expenditure, to a better level of morality.
> California becomes drug-free. World peace ensues. Gas goes back to 0,85=
a
> gallon. The party wins. Or haven't you been following that ? It's a
> numbers game.
Dumbass -
That's all true, but the evidence has to basically fall into their lap
for them to go for the minimal effort win. They're not going to put
much work into it because it doesn't score political capital for them.
The public in general doesn't care.
thanks,
K=2E Gringioni.
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Date: 19 May 2007 21:10:24
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On May 19, 11:55 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>
>>> I take that back. They care about as much as they care about doping in
>>> bodybuilding.
>> Let's see if I can explain it better. Not only cyclists, but attorneys like
>> winning. For these guys, the naïveté of the cycling dopers allows an easy
>> win, if the feds put in an effort, a modest one. So then they can win. Add
>> up a point, with little expenditure, to a better level of morality.
>> California becomes drug-free. World peace ensues. Gas goes back to 0,85 a
>> gallon. The party wins. Or haven't you been following that ? It's a
>> numbers game.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> That's all true, but the evidence has to basically fall into their lap
> for them to go for the minimal effort win. They're not going to put
> much work into it because it doesn't score political capital for them.
> The public in general doesn't care.
The specific segment of the public that cares generally would prefer to
see Landis win.
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Date: 19 May 2007 11:44:58
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On May 19, 3:16 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1179568742.550081.264830@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.=
com,
> Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et puis a d=E9c=
lar=E9 :
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 12:42 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
> >> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how
> >> systematic and thorough the doping system is within the professional
> >> cyclist population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level
> >> racing.
>
> >> Things to watch for :
>
> >> Identification of the California drug program doctor and
> >> consequences ; Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
> >> US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
> >> Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for
> >> various PED's
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Couple of things:
>
> > 1) what's a PED?
>
> P-erformance E-nhancing D-rug
>
> > 2) doubt the US Attorney's office (San Diego) will do anything.
> > They're not that interested in bike racing here.
>
> Reasons for their interest : conspiracy to defraud, interstate ; illegal
> prescription writing ; potential unreported income, if that was part of t=
he
> prescription "buy", etc. I am sure they are more creative than my 30-sec=
ond
> approach.
Dumbass -
You're looking at it from a French perspective.
Trust me, they don't give a rat's ass about doping in cycling here.
I take that back. They care about as much as they care about doping in
bodybuilding.
thanks,
K=2E Gringioni.
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Date: 19 May 2007 20:55:55
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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Dans le message de
news:1179600298.884506.222240@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On May 19, 3:16 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>> Dans le message
>> denews:1179568742.550081.264830@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, Kurgan
>> Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 19, 12:42 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>>>> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how
>>>> systematic and thorough the doping system is within the
>>>> professional cyclist population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams
>>>> or lower level racing.
>>
>>>> Things to watch for :
>>
>>>> Identification of the California drug program doctor and
>>>> consequences ; Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
>>>> US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
>>>> Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for
>>>> various PED's
>>
>>> Dumbass -
>>
>>> Couple of things:
>>
>>> 1) what's a PED?
>>
>> P-erformance E-nhancing D-rug
>>
>>> 2) doubt the US Attorney's office (San Diego) will do anything.
>>> They're not that interested in bike racing here.
>>
>> Reasons for their interest : conspiracy to defraud, interstate ;
>> illegal prescription writing ; potential unreported income, if that
>> was part of the prescription "buy", etc. I am sure they are more
>> creative than my 30-second approach.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> You're looking at it from a French perspective.
>
> Trust me, they don't give a rat's ass about doping in cycling here.
>
> I take that back. They care about as much as they care about doping in
> bodybuilding.
>
>
Let's see if I can explain it better. Not only cyclists, but attorneys like
winning. For these guys, the naïveté of the cycling dopers allows an easy
win, if the feds put in an effort, a modest one. So then they can win. Add
up a point, with little expenditure, to a better level of morality.
California becomes drug-free. World peace ensues. Gas goes back to 0,85 a
gallon. The party wins. Or haven't you been following that ? It's a
numbers game.
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Date: 19 May 2007 12:37:08
From: _
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:42:43 +0200, Sandy wrote:
> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how systematic
> and thorough the doping system is within the professional cyclist
> population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level racing.
>
> Things to watch for :
>
> Identification of the California drug program doctor and consequences ;
> Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
> US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
> Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for various PED's
> ;
> Real and lasting disappointment of cycling fans ;
> Potential for monitoring prescriptions for PED's (Italy has already promised
> this).
>
> I'm trying very hard to keep an open mind about Landis, but it will take a
> convincing performance by him and his team to win this arbitration, IMO. I
> truly hope Mark Hickey is watching with an equally open mind.
Mark has left the cycling newsgroups; think he's advising the military of
effective interrogation techniques in Gitmo, isn't he?
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Date: 19 May 2007 20:42:39
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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In article <1n4l3r99cmwzu$.12zmyz59wr42q$.dlg@40tude.net >,
_ <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com > wrote:
> On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:42:43 +0200, Sandy wrote:
>
> > The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how systematic
> > and thorough the doping system is within the professional cyclist
> > population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level racing.
> >
> > Things to watch for :
> >
> > Identification of the California drug program doctor and consequences ;
> > Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
> > US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
> > Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for various PED's
> > ;
> > Real and lasting disappointment of cycling fans ;
> > Potential for monitoring prescriptions for PED's (Italy has already
> > promised
> > this).
> >
> > I'm trying very hard to keep an open mind about Landis, but it will take a
> > convincing performance by him and his team to win this arbitration, IMO. I
> > truly hope Mark Hickey is watching with an equally open mind.
>
> Mark has left the cycling newsgroups; think he's advising the military of
> effective interrogation techniques in Gitmo, isn't he?
Whatever he's doing, he should be an example to us all. He's not wasting
his life in rb*.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 19 May 2007 05:32:41
From: derFahrer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
|
On May 19, 7:47 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
>
> Not defending Papp, but he was different than that. He got to race,
> and occassionally win, all over the world. That's different than the
> dreamers sucking it up a NRC races around the US with maybe a trip to
> Vancouver ever few years for Gastown.
>
> Sounds like a cool adventure.
I'm sure it was cool ... but these seemed to be mostly small-time
races ridden by small-time teams. It's not that hard to take out an
international license with the USCF and go race overseas, not work,
and call yourself a professional cyclist. Yes, he did at least have
the legs to at least get some results -- more than a lot of guys can
say (though never with anything resembling a real pro team, it seems).
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Date: 19 May 2007 04:27:17
From: derFahrer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On May 19, 3:42 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how systematic
> and thorough the doping system is within the professional cyclist
> population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level racing.
Papp mostly wants to see "Joe Papp" and "professional cyclist" in the
same sentence.
Papp was a $12k dreamer ... if he was lucky.
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Date: 19 May 2007 07:47:49
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On 19 May 2007 04:27:17 -0700, "derFahrer@gmail.com"
<derFahrer@gmail.com > wrote:
>Papp was a $12k dreamer ... if he was lucky.
Not defending Papp, but he was different than that. He got to race,
and occassionally win, all over the world. That's different than the
dreamers sucking it up a NRC races around the US with maybe a trip to
Vancouver ever few years for Gastown.
Sounds like a cool adventure.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 19 May 2007 07:42:18
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On 19 May 2007 04:27:17 -0700, "derFahrer@gmail.com"
<derFahrer@gmail.com > wrote:
>On May 19, 3:42 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how systematic
>> and thorough the doping system is within the professional cyclist
>> population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level racing.
>
>Papp mostly wants to see "Joe Papp" and "professional cyclist" in the
>same sentence.
The excerpt posted worked out great for him -- a quick reading makes
me think the guy rode the Tour de France.
I think he used to post to RBR.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 19 May 2007 03:35:25
From:
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
|
On May 19, 12:16 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> > 2) doubt the US Attorney's office (San Diego) will do anything.
> > They're not that interested in bike racing here.
>
> Reasons for their interest : conspiracy to defraud, interstate ; illegal
> prescription writing ; potential unreported income, if that was part of the
> prescription "buy", etc. I am sure they are more creative than my 30-second
> approach.
Dumbass,
None of those reasons matter. What matters is whether it implicates
Democrats.
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Date: 19 May 2007 02:59:02
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
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On May 19, 12:42 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how systematic
> and thorough the doping system is within the professional cyclist
> population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level racing.
>
> Things to watch for :
>
> Identification of the California drug program doctor and consequences ;
> Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
> US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
> Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for various PED's
Dumbass -
Couple of things:
1) what's a PED?
2) doubt the US Attorney's office (San Diego) will do anything.
They're not that interested in bike racing here.
3) for all you conspiracy theorists: Why would they bring in Papp? San
Diego doctor eh?
I've sorta got an idea and it wouldn't be pretty.
Regardless, this incident underscores just how badly cycling handles
its doping relative to other professional sports. Is anyone even
paying attention to the Giro?
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
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Date: 19 May 2007 12:16:12
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Joe Papp
|
Dans le message de
news:1179568742.550081.264830@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com,
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On May 19, 12:42 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>> The most depressing element of his testimony is his story of how
>> systematic and thorough the doping system is within the professional
>> cyclist population, whether it be UCI Pro Tour teams or lower level
>> racing.
>>
>> Things to watch for :
>>
>> Identification of the California drug program doctor and
>> consequences ; Action by CONI against the Italian team, Whistle ;
>> US Attorney's office (San Diego) action ;
>> Abandonment (possible) of the initial screening processes for
>> various PED's
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Couple of things:
>
> 1) what's a PED?
P-erformance E-nhancing D-rug
> 2) doubt the US Attorney's office (San Diego) will do anything.
> They're not that interested in bike racing here.
Reasons for their interest : conspiracy to defraud, interstate ; illegal
prescription writing ; potential unreported income, if that was part of the
prescription "buy", etc. I am sure they are more creative than my 30-second
approach.
> 3) for all you conspiracy theorists: Why would they bring in Papp? San
> Diego doctor eh?
>
(Your Canadian citizenship papers are now on hold.)
> I've sorta got an idea and it wouldn't be pretty.
> Regardless, this incident underscores just how badly cycling handles
> its doping relative to other professional sports. Is anyone even
> paying attention to the Giro?
For other sports, it was reported that in 2006, 342 drug screenings were
performed on international rugby matches, with 20 of them positive. Sounds
big to me, but I haven't gone further for more details. Yeah, the USA
doesn't care about rugby, but elsewhere it's important, like here.
>
Giro exposure is daily and virtually constant on Rai3. They seem unusually
attentive to the entire mess. Perhaps the broadcast is available on the
web - I have it on TV.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
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