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Main
Date: 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10
From: Dumbass
Subject: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
Reports are that it would be a big financial strain to appeal.
Previously, he said he will retire if he loses the case.
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 21:13:31
From: MagillaGorilla
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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Dumbass wrote:
> Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
> Reports are that it would be a big financial strain to appeal.
>
> Previously, he said he will retire if he loses the case.
>
The appeal doesn't cost much money at all - you mean it's the lawyers
fees that will kill him. There's a big difference. Nobody told Landis
he needed to spend $2 million on a defense that relied on a witness who
had no fucking idea what he was talking about.
Magilla
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 18:57:49
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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"MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com > wrote in message
news:fd4ejr$5md$2@aioe.org...
> Dumbass wrote:
>
>> Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
>> crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>> Reports are that it would be a big financial strain to appeal.
>>
>> Previously, he said he will retire if he loses the case.
>>
>
>
> The appeal doesn't cost much money at all - you mean it's the lawyers fees
> that will kill him. There's a big difference. Nobody told Landis he
> needed to spend $2 million on a defense that relied on a witness who had
> no fucking idea what he was talking about.
>
I don't run around in the same circles as accused dopers but I can't
understand why FL hired the same attorney that TH did. Do you have any
insight?
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Date: 23 Sep 2007 03:22:08
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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In article <RaadnYnLHv-RVWjbnZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"Frank Drackman" <frankdrack@yahoo.com > wrote:
> "MagillaGorilla" <magilla@sandiegozoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fd4ejr$5md$2@aioe.org...
> > Dumbass wrote:
> >
> >> Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> >> crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
> >> Reports are that it would be a big financial strain to appeal.
> >>
> >> Previously, he said he will retire if he loses the case.
> >>
> >
> >
> > The appeal doesn't cost much money at all - you mean it's the lawyers fees
> > that will kill him. There's a big difference. Nobody told Landis he
> > needed to spend $2 million on a defense that relied on a witness who had
> > no fucking idea what he was talking about.
> >
>
> I don't run around in the same circles as accused dopers but I can't
> understand why FL hired the same attorney that TH did. Do you have any
> insight?
Short version? You hire attorneys for experience in a particular
specialty. There's probably only four or five lawyers in the country
with specific experience with sports-doping arbitration cases.
Just because he couldn't get Tyler off doesn't mean he wasn't good,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 22:36:34
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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On Sep 22, 4:31 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1190492477.176691.140...@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> > On Sep 22, 4:12 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > > In article <1190447946.873837.292...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > > > On Sep 21, 2:55 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > >Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> > > > > >crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>
> > > > > How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> > > > > that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> > > > > what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> > > > > him against the world ?
>
> > > > Dumbass,
>
> > > > It's only presumed cheaters that accuse the system of being
> > > > corrupt. Just like it's only people who've been found guilty
> > > > who claim they've been wrongfully convicted.
>
> > > > Even a guilty man can be framed,
> > > > Ben
>
> > > Yes, but even a framed man can be innocent.
>
> > Yes, he was forced to take huge amounts of synthetic
> > testosterone ...at gunpoint.
>
> Andre: I would encourage you to read the dissenting arbitrator's
> opinion. The implication seems to be that not only was the doping not
> satisfactorily proved, but that the preponderance of the evidence
> suggests an innocent rider (and a positive-seeking lab).
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
the evidence strongly suggests Landis was pisssing into the wind
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Date: 23 Sep 2007 22:10:24
From: mal
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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>> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
>> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
>> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide
>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> the evidence strongly suggests Landis was pisssing into the wind
>
You sound like Dick Pound.
No substance, just vitriol
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Date: 24 Sep 2007 17:18:57
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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In article <LLidnX5QyadXgWrbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com >,
"mal" <malcolm1009@comcast.net > wrote:
> >> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> >> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> >> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide
> >> quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > the evidence strongly suggests Landis was pisssing into the wind
> >
>
> You sound like Dick Pound.
>
> No substance, just vitriol
I think you have made a mal-attribution. The .sig is mine, but the
quoted text is Gene's.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 13:21:17
From: Andre
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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On Sep 22, 4:12 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1190447946.873837.292...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > On Sep 21, 2:55 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> > > >crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>
> > > How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> > > that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> > > what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> > > him against the world ?
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > It's only presumed cheaters that accuse the system of being
> > corrupt. Just like it's only people who've been found guilty
> > who claim they've been wrongfully convicted.
>
> > Even a guilty man can be framed,
> > Ben
>
> Yes, but even a framed man can be innocent.
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, he was forced to take huge amounts of synthetic
testosterone ...at gunpoint.
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Date: 24 Sep 2007 20:11:22
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
"Andre" <ANDREJANSSENS1@YAHOO.COM > wrote in message
news:1190492477.176691.140730@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yes, he was forced to take huge amounts of synthetic
> testosterone ...at gunpoint.
It's no surprise that a moron who hasn't read a thing about the case would
make the comments that you do.
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 20:31:31
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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In article <1190492477.176691.140730@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
Andre <ANDREJANSSENS1@YAHOO.COM > wrote:
> On Sep 22, 4:12 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > In article <1190447946.873837.292...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > > On Sep 21, 2:55 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > >Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> > > > >crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
> >
> > > > How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> > > > that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> > > > what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> > > > him against the world ?
> >
> > > Dumbass,
> >
> > > It's only presumed cheaters that accuse the system of being
> > > corrupt. Just like it's only people who've been found guilty
> > > who claim they've been wrongfully convicted.
> >
> > > Even a guilty man can be framed,
> > > Ben
> >
> > Yes, but even a framed man can be innocent.
>
> Yes, he was forced to take huge amounts of synthetic
> testosterone ...at gunpoint.
Andre: I would encourage you to read the dissenting arbitrator's
opinion. The implication seems to be that not only was the doping not
satisfactorily proved, but that the preponderance of the evidence
suggests an innocent rider (and a positive-seeking lab).
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 18:54:06
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-E2AAC8.13313022092007@news.telus.net...
> In article <1190492477.176691.140730@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> Andre <ANDREJANSSENS1@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 22, 4:12 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>> > In article <1190447946.873837.292...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
>> > > On Sep 21, 2:55 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> > > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > >Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
>> > > > >crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>> >
>> > > > How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis
>> > > > make
>> > > > that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
>> > > > what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where
>> > > > it's
>> > > > him against the world ?
>> >
>> > > Dumbass,
>> >
>> > > It's only presumed cheaters that accuse the system of being
>> > > corrupt. Just like it's only people who've been found guilty
>> > > who claim they've been wrongfully convicted.
>> >
>> > > Even a guilty man can be framed,
>> > > Ben
>> >
>> > Yes, but even a framed man can be innocent.
>>
>> Yes, he was forced to take huge amounts of synthetic
>> testosterone ...at gunpoint.
>
> Andre: I would encourage you to read the dissenting arbitrator's
> opinion. The implication seems to be that not only was the doping not
> satisfactorily proved, but that the preponderance of the evidence
> suggests an innocent rider (and a positive-seeking lab).
>
Even reading the majority decision will almost get you to the same
conclusion.
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 07:59:06
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
On Sep 21, 2:55 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> >crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>
> How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> him against the world ?
Dumbass,
It's only presumed cheaters that accuse the system of being
corrupt. Just like it's only people who've been found guilty
who claim they've been wrongfully convicted.
Even a guilty man can be framed,
Ben
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 20:12:21
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
In article <1190447946.873837.292750@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote:
> On Sep 21, 2:55 pm, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> > >crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
> >
> > How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> > that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> > what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> > him against the world ?
>
> Dumbass,
>
> It's only presumed cheaters that accuse the system of being
> corrupt. Just like it's only people who've been found guilty
> who claim they've been wrongfully convicted.
>
> Even a guilty man can be framed,
> Ben
Yes, but even a framed man can be innocent.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 22 Sep 2007 04:19:47
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
On Sep 21, 7:54 pm, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> On Sep 21, 7:16 pm, Hobbes@spnb&s.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:55:37 +0200, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> > >wrote:
>
> > >>Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> > >>crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>
> > >How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> > >that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> > >what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> > >him against the world ?
>
> > Didn't read the finding didya?
>
> > The rules are just plain stacked against the rider.
>
> > Even the arbiters ruling against Floyd said so.
>
> It's like arguing with any religious fundamentalist nutjob. No excess,
> or atrocity is too much as long as it moves the crusade forward and
> there is nothing that can't be rationalized for the cause.
> I've actually been amazed, and pleasantly surprised by the level of
> reasoning and objective evaluation that has been applied to the whole
> mess over, say, the last year or so by almost all the folks here, even
> those who are very strongly anti-doping.
> Always said that, if you can ignore or be amused by the occasional
> crap, that on balance this is one of the best discussion groups on the
> net. Lots of smart, divergent, educated people, with experience and
> expertise, who actually have the ability to put that stuff into words
> for discussion.
> Bill C- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
try treehack and associates at PSYCHE-D@LISTSERV.UH.EDU
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 16:54:09
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
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On Sep 21, 7:16 pm, Hobbes@spnb&s.com wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:55:37 +0200, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >>Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
> >>crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>
> >How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
> >that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
> >what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
> >him against the world ?
>
> Didn't read the finding didya?
>
> The rules are just plain stacked against the rider.
>
> Even the arbiters ruling against Floyd said so.
It's like arguing with any religious fundamentalist nutjob. No excess,
or atrocity is too much as long as it moves the crusade forward and
there is nothing that can't be rationalized for the cause.
I've actually been amazed, and pleasantly surprised by the level of
reasoning and objective evaluation that has been applied to the whole
mess over, say, the last year or so by almost all the folks here, even
those who are very strongly anti-doping.
Always said that, if you can ignore or be amused by the occasional
crap, that on balance this is one of the best discussion groups on the
net. Lots of smart, divergent, educated people, with experience and
expertise, who actually have the ability to put that stuff into words
for discussion.
Bill C
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 17:26:29
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:1190418849.557940.112900@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 21, 7:16 pm, Hobbes@spnb&s.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:55:37 +0200, Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadams...@yahoo.com>
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >>Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
>> >>crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>>
>> >How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
>> >that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
>> >what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
>> >him against the world ?
>>
>> Didn't read the finding didya?
>>
>> The rules are just plain stacked against the rider.
>>
>> Even the arbiters ruling against Floyd said so.
>
> It's like arguing with any religious fundamentalist nutjob. No excess,
> or atrocity is too much as long as it moves the crusade forward and
> there is nothing that can't be rationalized for the cause.
> I've actually been amazed, and pleasantly surprised by the level of
> reasoning and objective evaluation that has been applied to the whole
> mess over, say, the last year or so by almost all the folks here, even
> those who are very strongly anti-doping.
> Always said that, if you can ignore or be amused by the occasional
> crap, that on balance this is one of the best discussion groups on the
> net. Lots of smart, divergent, educated people, with experience and
> expertise, who actually have the ability to put that stuff into words
> for discussion.
> Bill C
The riders should use the majority decision to go for reforms in the
process. The top riders that fans believe to be clean should get together
and fight against the key issues. They won't because they want the next
paycheck.
>
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 23:55:37
From: Keith
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadamsmar@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
>crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
him against the world ?
>Reports are that it would be a big financial strain to appeal.
>
>Previously, he said he will retire if he loses the case.
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Date: 21 Sep 2007 19:16:06
From:
Subject: Re: Landis will retire if he loses case.
|
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:55:37 +0200, Keith <nospam@nospam.com > wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:20:10 -0700, Dumbass <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Landis has not decided whether to appeal to the CAS, saying it's
>>crapshoot since they are as corrupt as the rest of the system.
>
>How long are we going to tolerate a presumed cheater like Landis make
>that type of unsubstantiated accusation? Does that idiot even KNOW
>what corruption means or is he in a totally paranoid mode where it's
>him against the world ?
Didn't read the finding didya?
The rules are just plain stacked against the rider.
Even the arbiters ruling against Floyd said so.
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