| |
Main
Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:23:59
From: JC
Subject: LeMond on Contador
|
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
-------
LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
to implicate other riders, too.
"You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
"Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
"Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
doping scandal that rocked Spain.
"I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
name a champion this year.
"I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
--------
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|
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 00:32:25
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 28, 1:26 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <1185608328.891734.280...@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> r15...@aol.com (' r15...@aol.com') wrote:
> > You cheer for Voeckler?
>
> Absolutely. He's done nothing this year, but when he does do something it's
> usually crazy, valiant and beautiful.
Or, idiotic. He's no Jens Voigt.
What is it with the French riders who have to make a sort of orgasm
face for the cameras? French cycling is really in the pits. It was bad
enough watching Jalabert strive for the polka-dot jersey.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 13:45:46
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Dans le message de
news:1185780745.885416.140880@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
r15757@aol.com <r15757@aol.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jul 28, 1:26 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>> in message <1185608328.891734.280...@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> r15...@aol.com (' r15...@aol.com') wrote:
>
>>> You cheer for Voeckler?
>>
>> Absolutely. He's done nothing this year, but when he does do
>> something it's usually crazy, valiant and beautiful.
>
> Or, idiotic. He's no Jens Voigt.
>
> What is it with the French riders who have to make a sort of orgasm
> face for the cameras? French cycling is really in the pits. It was bad
> enough watching Jalabert strive for the polka-dot jersey.
Voeckler is a typical FR shouldn't-be-pro racer, who agonizes over every
detail, fails to concentrate on the job, falls into fame doing something
dumb, and mines the accident as though he were really something good.
Moreau didn't really disappoint - there just was no one else to think about
in GC. And he didn't disappoint. The stage winners are cool; Voeckler
ought to go home.
|
| | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 11:01:11
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
r15757 wrote:
> What is it with the French riders who have to make a sort of orgasm
> face for the cameras?
http://www.myorgasmface.com/
|
| | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 17:26:24
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article
<46ada87e$0$4371$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com >,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> r15757 wrote:
> > What is it with the French riders who have to make a sort of orgasm
> > face for the cameras?
>
> http://www.myorgasmface.com/
You don't think anyone is going to click through on that?
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 00:05:54
From: Tuschinski
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 30, 3:26 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <s...@reippuert.dk> wrote in messagenews:hulun=
4-rt3.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Shane Stanley <sstan...@myriad-com.nospam.com.au> wrote:
> >> In article <4dprn4-rea....@wm.reippuert.dk>,
> >> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
> >> > Apperantly he says so himself:
>
> >> > <http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html>
>
> >> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
> >> You're grasping at straws.
>
> > i quote:
>
> > "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
> > Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
> > ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
> > beteuern, beschr=E4nkt sich die T=E4tigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
> > das Erstellen von Trainingspl=E4nen"
>
> >> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
> >> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
>
> >> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did, sometime
> >> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
> >> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
> >> implicates" indeed.
>
> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the DDR
> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
> > Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
>
> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists who a=
re
> known the world over as being far and impartial.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Wrong language ^^ (Close though)
|
| |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 23:11:07
From: Ron Ruff
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> A friend and I were discussing last evening. His plan? Amnesty (I'd
> go back five years. Or ten.) followed by a death (life exclusion)
> sentence.
The amnesty part is good, but I think in the same spirit, a positive
test should be something on the order of a 2 month suspension, or a
more thoroughly thought out but minor penalty.
At the same time I'm all for improved and thorough testing. A failed
test (or avoiding a test) should be the *only* way that a rider gets
suspended for doping as far as the UCI is concerned.
I'm really sick of the self righteous BS being spouted by the media
and most of the fans. Nearly all of the riders wish doping could be
eliminated, including the ones who are doping. Too bad it can't be.
That's why the "code of silence" makes perfect sense. Otherwise we
have the circus we have now, the sponsors leave, and the sport gets
killed. I wish there was a practical way to get rid of doping... but
there isn't. I wish for a lot of things, but have to accept things
that can't be changed.
a) The dope works.
b) Testing is inadequate to determine who is doping and who isn't.
c) Many riders will dope because... if they are careful... they can
probably get away with it... forever.
d) Therefore you are giving up a major advantage to your competition
if you don't dope... and what pro can afford to do that?
People can rant and rave about how bad it sucks, but it is a fact of
life. When they start lifetime driving bans for people who are caught
driving over the speed limit, then lifetime doping bans will probably
make sense... and I'll be looking to move to another planet.
|
| | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 14:16:04
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Ron Ruff" <rruffrruff@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1185689467.770957.106800@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> People can rant and rave about how bad it sucks, but it is a fact of
> life. When they start lifetime driving bans for people who are caught
> driving over the speed limit, then lifetime doping bans will probably
> make sense... and I'll be looking to move to another planet.
These self richeous bastards couldn't care less about the huge numbers
killed on the public roads or the fact that most of those complaining about
doping among athletes are an inch from being alcoholics themselves.
What this is all about is worthless slobs being able to scream hatred at
someone else.
|
| |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:42:17
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 28, 4:54 pm, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> Maybe they never were, but the availability circa 1990's of blood
> doping via syringe and HGH in cycling have certainly proved to be
> much, much more effective than smoking cigarettes, drinking wine, and
> popping greenies ever were, eh?
Cigarettes, wine? No. Speed? Pot Belge (and other real/imagined
concoctions)? Those might not equal HGH, testo, EPO, but they could be
effective.
> Society, and sports which are a microcosm thereof, require some rule
> of law in order to function effectively. Hence, rules.
Well, they gotta look like they're *doing something*.
> Do you disagree with equipment standardization? While it was indeed
> cheesy to change the aerobar rule the day of the prologue, and while
> there are numerous examples of arbitrary sounding restrictions, do you
> dispute that there have to be standards as to the machines in order to
> ensure that the competition is athletic and not mechanical?
NASCAR's strong suit is a mechanically level (more or less) playing
field. And not excluding cheaters for two years. Although they are
eliminating some forms of "tolerance", esp. concerning the COT.
> So what about the athletes themselves? Human nature being what it is,
> the rewards for success being what the are, any edge in terms of
> training, food supplements, and anything that can be ingested or
> injected into the body will be availed by many regardless of
> consequences, such as future health detriment.
That's the problem. How do you enforce rules if you can't measure?
> It has proven difficult if not impossible to consistently and fairly
> police rules against what is ok and what is not okay to ingest.
Ah, so you agree (<g >)
> Thus,
> one doped athlete wins by being good at doping (not getting caught),
> while another is sanctioned and vilified for a positive test. Is that
> fair? And what about the ridiculous zero-tolerance injustices that
> result when athletes innocently ingest over the counter products which
> contain miniscule traces of banned substances?
BIg problems, especially when connected to career-ending "solutions".
> It is a dilemma.
It's a problem with no solution. Until we get a Truth Machine or 100%
effective testing for any/everything.
> If you throw up your hands in surrender at the impossibility of fairly
> leveling the playing filed, and opt for anything goes,
I've never said I'm in favor of any of that.
> then every
> athlete is forced to take health risks willy nilly in order to be
> competitive. Even if you posit that they will be protected by team
> doctors, the fact is that they would be relegated to being human
> guinea pigs for the next best thing to get an edge. Sorry, but that
> has appeal only to a cynical minority - amply represented on rbr.
Athletes have been guinea pigs for a long, long time.
> The only other alternative is to make rules drawing the line between
> acceptable and non-acceptable substances, and attempt to enforce them.
>
> And here we are.
>
> So, what in the way of constructive suggestions do you have? I'm
> liking the amnesty now, lifetime ban later idea. But the athletes
> cannot be the only ones punished. Team directors? Sponsors?
Arrest Dick Pound every time an athlete is found positive. Film his
body cavity search and show it on prime time TV.
Impossible, but it appeals to my sense of poetic justice.
Team directors? Maybe. Sponsors? Wow, let's just drive them all away
right now!
No, I don't have any magical solutions to a problem I've just
described as unsolvable.
I would like to see the body count amount to the smallest numbers
possible. A difficulty to conceive for some, in the War on People. --
D-y
|
| |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 12:54:29
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 3:00 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> EPO was discovered in 1977, it was synthesized in 1983 and dutch cyclists
> were already dropping dead from thick blood in 1989 when LeMond won his
> second Tour. (TIOOYK)
Amphetamines have been around since the late 20's.
Who says Lemond knew what was in his medications?
(Whatever) It's funny to hear him "red flag" riders ("too heavy to
climb like that") in the Tour when his own history is such a glass
house-- the "lead poisoning" and subsequent miraculous recovery just
in time to win the Tour that counted (not the Giro).
A friend and I were discussing last evening. His plan? Amnesty (I'd
go back five years. Or ten.) followed by a death (life exclusion)
sentence.
I don't know about the death part, given the vagaries of being tested
and leaked by French labs, but the amnesty part is really appealing.
Then maybe they can make some rules they can enforce without wiretaps
and jailhouse confessions and DNA bullshit.
Talk about believing in fairy tales:
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-tourdefrance-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns
<Virtually no one close to cycling believes the peloton is clean -- or
will be for years. Deception and self-denial are rife, tarnishing an
event that has battled doping demons since its first edition in 1903.
<Doping entails a web of deception, and sports psychologists say
athletes are lying to themselves, as much as to their fans.
<"We've lost sight of the true purpose of sports," said JoAnn
Dahlkoetter of Stanford University. "Instead of building character,
self-discipline and determination, we've developed a win-at-all-costs
attitude." >
Gaaaag me. When were "sports" ever "clean"?
Let's get real ourselves, Ms Dahlkoetter. --D-y
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:54:04
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:54:29 -0700, "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
<dustoyevsky@mac.com > wrote:
>Gaaaag me. When were "sports" ever "clean"?
>Let's get real ourselves, Ms Dahlkoetter.
Maybe they never were, but the availability circa 1990's of blood
doping via syringe and HGH in cycling have certainly proved to be
much, much more effective than smoking cigarettes, drinking wine, and
popping greenies ever were, eh?
Society, and sports which are a microcosm thereof, require some rule
of law in order to function effectively. Hence, rules.
Do you disagree with equipment standardization? While it was indeed
cheesy to change the aerobar rule the day of the prologue, and while
there are numerous examples of arbitrary sounding restrictions, do you
dispute that there have to be standards as to the machines in order to
ensure that the competition is athletic and not mechanical?
So what about the athletes themselves? Human nature being what it is,
the rewards for success being what the are, any edge in terms of
training, food supplements, and anything that can be ingested or
injected into the body will be availed by many regardless of
consequences, such as future health detriment.
It has proven difficult if not impossible to consistently and fairly
police rules against what is ok and what is not okay to ingest. Thus,
one doped athlete wins by being good at doping (not getting caught),
while another is sanctioned and vilified for a positive test. Is that
fair? And what about the ridiculous zero-tolerance injustices that
result when athletes innocently ingest over the counter products which
contain miniscule traces of banned substances?
It is a dilemma.
If you throw up your hands in surrender at the impossibility of fairly
leveling the playing filed, and opt for anything goes, then every
athlete is forced to take health risks willy nilly in order to be
competitive. Even if you posit that they will be protected by team
doctors, the fact is that they would be relegated to being human
guinea pigs for the next best thing to get an edge. Sorry, but that
has appeal only to a cynical minority - amply represented on rbr.
The only other alternative is to make rules drawing the line between
acceptable and non-acceptable substances, and attempt to enforce them.
And here we are.
So, what in the way of constructive suggestions do you have? I'm
liking the amnesty now, lifetime ban later idea. But the athletes
cannot be the only ones punished. Team directors? Sponsors?
|
| |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 05:34:32
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 28, 12:44 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Jul 27, 9:46 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > He's no longer actively involved in the racing end of cycling. He has
> > no firsthand knowledge whatsoever of what the current riders are or
> > are not doing.
>
> > For a good example of the way to act: Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault,
> > Miguel Indurain. If they don't know something, they don't pretend to.
> > The epitome of the graceful former champions.
>
> > For a good example of the way not to act: Greg Lemond. Self-righteous
> > blowhard. He's so egocentric he doesn't realize he's no different than
> > those who accused Lemond of doing drugs.
>
>
> I am not totally disrespectful of Greg. He does
> seem to attract jackassical behavior from people who
> in fact turn out to be jackasses. However I agree
> that he has no specific knowledge and so it really
> bothers me when he points at riders based on
> nothing other than that they are at the top of the
> leaderboard.
Greg seemed to be quiet for a number of years. He was active in his
self-aggrandiz...errr...anti-doping campaign, but he didn't have the
right formula. Then he discovered that if he pointed fingers, while
not pointing fingers, at top racers, instead of domestiques like he
had been doing, he'd get a lot more attention and feel more important.
R
|
| |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 00:38:48
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 11:34 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> David Millar, Thomas Voeckler, Magnus Backstedt, Alexander Vinokourov?
> These are guys I love to watch, whom I'll cheer for any stage they race -
> but it wouldn't shock me to learn that any of them were doping.
You cheer for Voeckler?
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 20:26:23
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
in message <1185608328.891734.280820@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com >,
r15757@aol.com (' r15757@aol.com') wrote:
> On Jul 27, 11:34 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> David Millar, Thomas Voeckler, Magnus Backstedt, Alexander Vinokourov?
>> These are guys I love to watch, whom I'll cheer for any stage they race
>> - but it wouldn't shock me to learn that any of them were doping.
>
> You cheer for Voeckler?
Absolutely. He's done nothing this year, but when he does do something it's
usually crazy, valiant and beautiful.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; when in the shit, the wise man plants courgettes
|
| |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 04:44:11
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 9:46 am, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> He's no longer actively involved in the racing end of cycling. He has
> no firsthand knowledge whatsoever of what the current riders are or
> are not doing.
>
> For a good example of the way to act: Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault,
> Miguel Indurain. If they don't know something, they don't pretend to.
> The epitome of the graceful former champions.
>
> For a good example of the way not to act: Greg Lemond. Self-righteous
> blowhard. He's so egocentric he doesn't realize he's no different than
> those who accused Lemond of doing drugs.
Dumbass,
I am not totally disrespectful of Greg. He does
seem to attract jackassical behavior from people who
in fact turn out to be jackasses. However I agree
that he has no specific knowledge and so it really
bothers me when he points at riders based on
nothing other than that they are at the top of the
leaderboard. But actually, I just want to point out
that this was predictable at the beginning of the month:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/0d433d2710c3d67d
Ben
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 21:25:06
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 11:53 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> > Ignoramous -
>
> > The budget of all the Protour teams combined is only about $200
> > million (if that). That's a lot of money for an individual, but
> > compared to the entire economy it's nothing.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > K. Gringioni.
>
> Nice troll, you aren't that ignorant. Their budgets and their economic
> impact are totally seperate animals.
Dumbass -
Au contraire.
The economic impacts are mirrored by the budgets. If the economic
impacts on their sponsors were bigger, more sponsors would see the
value and try to get in, thereby driving up the asking rate of a
ProTour outfit.
The market for those outfits are unregulated. If you could convince a
potential sponsor that they could invest $20 million in a team
(Disco's asking price is $15M) and the sponsor would get $30 million
more profit the next year as a result of the exposure, you could hire
a bunch of riders and have yourself a team.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:21:37
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 1:10 pm, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Donald Munro wrote:
> > anton2468 wrote:
> >> Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
> >> pisses me off.
>
> >> These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
> >> are the norm.
>
> > The neanderthals hated the humans too. We had better tools.
>
> You're always going on about penis size.
LOL. Anton and Doug are two of the biggest tools I've seen.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:11:27
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 6:01 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
>
> Cycling doesn't "represent" the home of drug taking
> cheaters. Drug taking and cheating is a symptom of
> a universal human problem, cutting corners under
> competitive pressure to get ahead.
Well, when you put it that way, cheating and doping are survival and
competitive traits indicative of fitness. Are we supposed to
eliminate the bleeding edge of humanity just because of some stupid
laws enacted by people who want to drag everybody down to average?
Methinks not.
Recently there was a study about energy usage comparing simian gait on
all fours versus (not the channel) two-legged loco-motion (double
hyphen to improve balance). It pointed out that humans use 1/4 of the
energy walking on two legs as chimps do on all fours. Most reports by
the press (not Michael) lead off with Humans Walk Upright Because
They're Lazy, or some such. I can't argue there. Now off to crack a
beer and locate the remote to improve my fitness.
R
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 18:26:00
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article
<1185574287.921936.145470@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com >
,
RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 6:01 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Cycling doesn't "represent" the home of drug taking
> > cheaters. Drug taking and cheating is a symptom of
> > a universal human problem, cutting corners under
> > competitive pressure to get ahead.
>
> Well, when you put it that way, cheating and doping are survival and
> competitive traits indicative of fitness. Are we supposed to
> eliminate the bleeding edge of humanity just because of some stupid
> laws enacted by people who want to drag everybody down to average?
> Methinks not.
>
> Recently there was a study about energy usage comparing simian gait on
> all fours versus (not the channel) two-legged loco-motion (double
> hyphen to improve balance). It pointed out that humans use 1/4 of the
> energy walking on two legs as chimps do on all fours. Most reports by
> the press (not Michael) lead off with Humans Walk Upright Because
> They're Lazy, or some such. I can't argue there. Now off to crack a
> beer and locate the remote to improve my fitness.
A number of advances. Ligament (nuchal ligament)
holding the head up stores energy that would otherwise
dissipate. Likewise ligaments in the legs that have no
other reason for being. Our shoulders are disconnected
from our heads, removing a energy sapping coupling.
Notice that almost every muscle to the skull attaches
to the spine and ribs, not the clavicle nor the
scapula.
--
Michael Press
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 08:54:02
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:11:27 -0700, RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:
>On Jul 27, 6:01 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
>wrote:
>>
>> Cycling doesn't "represent" the home of drug taking
>> cheaters. Drug taking and cheating is a symptom of
>> a universal human problem, cutting corners under
>> competitive pressure to get ahead.
>
>Well, when you put it that way, cheating and doping are survival and
>competitive traits indicative of fitness. Are we supposed to
>eliminate the bleeding edge of humanity just because of some stupid
>laws enacted by people who want to drag everybody down to average?
>Methinks not.
>
>Recently there was a study about energy usage comparing simian gait on
>all fours versus (not the channel) two-legged loco-motion (double
>hyphen to improve balance). It pointed out that humans use 1/4 of the
>energy walking on two legs as chimps do on all fours. Most reports by
>the press (not Michael) lead off with Humans Walk Upright Because
>They're Lazy, or some such. I can't argue there. Now off to crack a
>beer and locate the remote to improve my fitness.
Gotta keep evolving, bro'.
Ron
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:03:51
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 1:44 pm, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:01:22 -0700, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
> >> might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
> >> your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
> >> your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
>
> >You're a nut. I was and I never cared in the least bit if someone was
> >doping. If someone doesn't want to cycle-race, no one is forcing them
> >to do it.
>
> What's the next step up from saint? Bodhisattva?
>
> Congratu-fucking-lations, dude, you're the champ.
>
> Good thing I'm just a no talent club rider, because I'm pretty friggin
> sure if I was of Pro/1/2 caliber, and busted my ass on regular food
> and hard work to race for the podium, and was knocked off by people
> who cheated, I would one pissed off mofo.
My advice is that you get some perspective. But you're free to knot
up if you want.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 22:01:47
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 11:30 am, anton2...@aol.com wrote:
>
> I raced against East Germans. It pissed me off. I coached crews
> against drugs, It pissed me off. I fucking hate cheating c+nts who
> cannot just train hard, take pain and if they are not good enough then
> lose.
>
> Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
> pisses me off.
>
> These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
> are the norm.
The East Germans were too soft to train hard? I mean,
other than Jan Ullrich.
Cycling doesn't "represent" the home of drug taking
cheaters. Drug taking and cheating is a symptom of
a universal human problem, cutting corners under
competitive pressure to get ahead. We don't, or
shouldn't, kill things because of what they "represent."
At best we rip them because of what they _are_.
You're pissed off that people cheat in rowing, and
you see high profile cheating in cycling, which has
more money in it than rowing, so maybe the cheating
and the catch-rate are both higher. But it still
makes no sense to me that you're pissed off at all
of cycling because somebody cheated at rowing. How
do you feel about dopers in rowing? I mean, unless
you think that there aren't any more dopers in
rowing now that those softies from East Germany
are gone.
Ben
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:00:58
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 12:59 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <1185555843.700837.297...@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, SLAVE
> of THE STATE ('gwh...@ti.com') wrote:
>
> > On Jul 27, 9:46 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>
> >> Second, anybody who posts or lurks on rbr - whether all year or only
> >> in July - loves the sport and doesn't want it killed. We loved this
> >> year's tour when Kodi, Vino and Skeletor were in it, and the podium
> >> was an actual competition, dope or no dope.
>
> > I enjoy it. But really, I don't care if cycling lives or dies. If it
> > can't survive on its own merits, then bye-bye. You think bike racing
> > is important. It isn't to me.
>
> Fine. Off you go and discuss something that is important to you, somewhere
> else.
I'll leave that up to me.
> It's important to me, and to a number of other people here.
Dumbass, he was speaking for "we." I don't care what individuals
decide to care about or not care about, although I offer free advice.
LOL
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 09:43:48
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> Dumbass, he was speaking for "we." I don't care what individuals
> decide to care about or not care about, although I offer free advice.
> LOL
The number of caregivers on rbr is becoming a real concern. Its messing up
our macho appeal.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 14:20:07
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 3:46 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> anton2468 wrote:
> > Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
> > pisses me off.
>
> > These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
> > are the norm.
>
> The neanderthals hated the humans too. We had better tools.
Donald...its cheating. Grow up and open your eyes.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:46:49
From: Bret
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 7:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> > winners, and no races either.
> > That's a perfect solution.
> > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
Jackass,
You've changed your tune:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/c3f5c0fa70cfe361?hl=en&
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:53:05
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 12:49 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 7:43 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
> > money,
>
> Ignoramous -
>
> The budget of all the Protour teams combined is only about $200
> million (if that). That's a lot of money for an individual, but
> compared to the entire economy it's nothing.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
Nice troll, you aren't that ignorant. Their budgets and their economic
impact are totally seperate animals.
Bill C
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:48:38
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 2:39 pm, Tuschinski <Tuschin...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 8:30 pm, anton2...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 27, 9:32 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid>
> > wrote:
>
> > > anton2...@aol.com wrote:
> > > > You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
> > > You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
> > > a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
> > > We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
> > > and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>
> > > I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
> > > is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
> > > satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
> > > passtime.
>
> > > --
> > > E. Dronkert
>
> > Ewoud
>
> > I raced against East Germans. It pissed me off. I coached crews
> > against drugs, It pissed me off. I fucking hate cheating c+nts who
> > cannot just train hard, take pain and if they are not good enough then
> > lose.
>
> > Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
> > pisses me off.
>
> > These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
> > are the norm.
>
> Before you carry out the torches, a few things I want to say.
>
> Rowing isn't clean (never was)
> Soccer isn't clean
> Baseball isn't clean
>
> Yet you grandstand about how evil cyclists are.... I'm sorry, you seem
> to have a tunnelvision wich makes you one of those inquisitors with
> those whitebedsheets over their heads.
>
> Why aren't you pushing for release of the Soccer names implied in
> Puerto? Why is Fuentes admonition that he was contacted by (amongst
> others Barcelona!) ignored?
>
> I think you are taking it out on cyclism out of spite. Question your
> own motives before you torch these fellow human beings, okay?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah
Rowing is not clean. 95% of it is.
90% of elite cycling is clearly doping.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 21:45:44
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
anton2468 wrote:
> 90% of elite cycling is clearly doping.
In that case its a level playing field.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:39:10
From: Tuschinski
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 8:30 pm, anton2...@aol.com wrote:
> On Jul 27, 9:32 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > anton2...@aol.com wrote:
> > > You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
> > You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
> > a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
> > We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
> > and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>
> > I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
> > is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
> > satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
> > passtime.
>
> > --
> > E. Dronkert
>
> Ewoud
>
> I raced against East Germans. It pissed me off. I coached crews
> against drugs, It pissed me off. I fucking hate cheating c+nts who
> cannot just train hard, take pain and if they are not good enough then
> lose.
>
> Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
> pisses me off.
>
> These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
> are the norm.
Before you carry out the torches, a few things I want to say.
Rowing isn't clean (never was)
Soccer isn't clean
Baseball isn't clean
Yet you grandstand about how evil cyclists are.... I'm sorry, you seem
to have a tunnelvision wich makes you one of those inquisitors with
those whitebedsheets over their heads.
Why aren't you pushing for release of the Soccer names implied in
Puerto? Why is Fuentes admonition that he was contacted by (amongst
others Barcelona!) ignored?
I think you are taking it out on cyclism out of spite. Question your
own motives before you torch these fellow human beings, okay?
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:31:34
From: Tuschinski
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 8:12 pm, gracesa...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> My hands are raised. We now know enough that synthetic EPO was not in
> existence then. So what did Lemond take? Iron would be my best
> guess...
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> > > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> > > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> > > winners, and no races either.
> > > That's a perfect solution.
> > > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> > I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
> > year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> > deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> > Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm going to play devil's advocate and assume Greg was taking
something. for this excersise I'm assuming he did get Iron, but with
something alongside of it.
Epo should be combined with Iron supplements, wich makes Gregs
injection so interesting. Now considering it can't be Epo, are their
similar things that work well with Iron Supplements? For instance,
does Blooddope need iron supplements?
Back to the real world: We have no proof something happened, though
the impact of the iron injection seems to be far beyond what is
therapeutically expectable. Yes, Greg's body already had proven it's
amazing recuperation talent when he was shot, so maybe he was telling
the truth. But the team he rode for that year, it's people around it,
hardly can be called epitaphs of modern clean cycling. All in all it
remains a mystery to me what happened, though I do think he did
something naughty^^
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:30:43
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 9:32 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> anton2...@aol.com wrote:
> > You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
> You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
> a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
> We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
> and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>
> I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
> is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
> satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
> passtime.
>
> --
> E. Dronkert
Ewoud
I raced against East Germans. It pissed me off. I coached crews
against drugs, It pissed me off. I fucking hate cheating c+nts who
cannot just train hard, take pain and if they are not good enough then
lose.
Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
pisses me off.
These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
are the norm.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 21:46:44
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
anton2468 wrote:
> Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
> pisses me off.
>
> These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
> are the norm.
The neanderthals hated the humans too. We had better tools.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 20:10:15
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Donald Munro wrote:
> anton2468 wrote:
>> Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
>> pisses me off.
>>
>> These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
>> are the norm.
>
> The neanderthals hated the humans too. We had better tools.
You're always going on about penis size.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 09:22:11
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
anton2468 wrote:
>>> Cycling represents the home of the drug taking cheating c+nt and it
>>> pisses me off.
>>> These drug takers are human scum. And in cycling, deny it or not, they
>>> are the norm.
Donald Munro wrote:
>> The neanderthals hated the humans too. We had better tools.
William Asher wrote:
> You're always going on about penis size.
According to the latest theories neanderthals became extinct due to a
severe case of penis envy.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:24:22
From: Tuschinski
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 7:34 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> There are exactly two cyclists in the peloton today who it would upset me
> to learn were doping: Jens Voigt, and Tom Boonen. I believe in their
> integrity and I would feel really disillusioned if they were doping now.
> I'm not even a Boonen fan. I wouldn't even be upset to learn that Jens had
> doped five years ago...
Unless i am completely mistaken in a prior TdF Boonen rather
emotionally screamed at the Jury *Stages as these is why we use Epo!!!
*. It's not a confession and it was made in anger (I do not remember
the setting anymore). Also, team Qstep and Lefevre had some skeletons
in their cupboard, some of them are still rambling (Strong suspicions
against Lefvre).
So Boonen... I love the guy as a cyclist, but I wouldn't put my money
on him being clean. Sorry :(
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 23:50:13
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Tuschinski <Tuschinski@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 7:34 pm, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> > There are exactly two cyclists in the peloton today who it would upset me
> > to learn were doping: Jens Voigt, and Tom Boonen. I believe in their
> > integrity and I would feel really disillusioned if they were doping now.
> > I'm not even a Boonen fan. I wouldn't even be upset to learn that Jens had
> > doped five years ago...
> Unless i am completely mistaken in a prior TdF Boonen rather
> emotionally screamed at the Jury *Stages as these is why we use Epo!!!
> *. It's not a confession and it was made in anger (I do not remember
> the setting anymore). Also, team Qstep and Lefevre had some skeletons
> in their cupboard, some of them are still rambling (Strong suspicions
> against Lefvre).
Muesseuw et. all, secondly we know that even Bettini did somthing
nasty i the MAPAI years with Bartoli. Just accept it, the majority on
the elder riders and team personal did the nasty thing. A lot of them
still (an quite a few of the younger riders) still do.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 21:03:40
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
in message <1185560662.142677.246010@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
Tuschinski ('Tuschinski@gmail.com') wrote:
> So Boonen... I love the guy as a cyclist, but I wouldn't put my money
> on him being clean. Sorry :(
Fair enough. I will still be horribly disappointed if he turns out to be
doping.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:23:03
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 7:52 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:24:20 -0700, Kurgan Gringioni
>
> <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >That jackass seriously needs to shut up.
>
> >After he wasn't able to win anymore, he'd like it better if no one
> >else could either.
>
> >So lame. I have nothing but contempt for him.
>
> Dumbass - Your contempt is seriously directed at the wrong guy. I'm
> thinking that Bjarne Riis' confession (of the obvious) pretty much
> supports and justifies everything Lemond has been whining about for
> more than 10 years. He was all by himself out on a limb, getting
> slammed by all the rbr cycling whores, and now he's looking pretty
> much vindicated AFAIC.
>
> Bottom line: how can you slam a guy who DID win the TdF 3 times while
> clean? Put yourself in his place. How would you react if domestiques
> start dropping you and winning races - doped to the gills it turns
> out?
>
> You'd become a self righteous blowhard.
>
> Come to think of it, in some cases, you'd become simply a BIGGER and
> LOUDER version of a existing self righteous blowhard.
How do you know Lemond was clean? Because he says so? Hell, Vino,
Riss (up until a few months ago, anyway) Landis, Millar (until he was
already caught), Basso, etc... all said they were clean.
You can shout it to the rafters but that don't make it so.
Fred
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:12:03
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
My hands are raised. We now know enough that synthetic EPO was not in
existence then. So what did Lemond take? Iron would be my best
guess...
>
>
> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> > winners, and no races either.
> > That's a perfect solution.
> > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 20:00:47
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
<gracesaves@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185559923.282834.309070@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
> My hands are raised. We now know enough that synthetic EPO was not in
> existence then. So what did Lemond take? Iron would be my best
> guess...
EPO was discovered in 1977, it was synthesized in 1983 and dutch cyclists
were already dropping dead from thick blood in 1989 when LeMond won his
second Tour. (TIOOYK)
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 21:58:32
From: benjo maso
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
<gracesaves@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185559923.282834.309070@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
> My hands are raised. We now know enough that synthetic EPO was not in
> existence then. So what did Lemond take? Iron would be my best
> guess...
EPO came on the market in 1987. It was on the list of prohibited substances
in 1990. Lemond's exploit was in 1989.
Benjo
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:49:52
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
wrote:
> On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
> My hands are raised. We now know enough that synthetic EPO was not in
> existence then. So what did Lemond take? Iron would be my best
> guess...
Synthetic EPO was available in 1989.
http://tinyurl.com/3xhbmh
Lemond has also demonstrated a willingness to be an early adopter of new
technology.
--
Bill Asher
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:06:23
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 7:05 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu > wrote:
> <teaser4e...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1185544789.166575.204450@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 27, 3:55 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> >> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> >> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> >> > winners, and no races either.
> >> > That's a perfect solution.
> >> > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> >> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
> >> that
> >> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> >> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> >> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
>
> > It's quite obvious.
>
> > After a lead shot he was slowly lowering his metal habit with Iron. At
> > the end he probably used copper ^^
>
> > Do I get a price?
>
> Maybe there's something mysterious about metal that we don't know about.
After you graduate from The School of Rock, you can do graduate work
in Metal. Good luck.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:55:55
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwhite@ti.com > wrote in message
news:1185555983.222905.39850@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 7:05 am, "Tom Nakashima" <t...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> <teaser4e...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185544789.166575.204450@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 27, 3:55 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> >> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be
>> >> > banned
>> >> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat,
>> >> > and
>> >> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>> >> > winners, and no races either.
>> >> > That's a perfect solution.
>> >> > Next witch to the stake please!
>>
>> >> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the
>> >> Giro
>> >> that
>> >> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an
>> >> "iron
>> >> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>>
>> >> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
>>
>> > It's quite obvious.
>>
>> > After a lead shot he was slowly lowering his metal habit with Iron. At
>> > the end he probably used copper ^^
>>
>> > Do I get a price?
>>
>> Maybe there's something mysterious about metal that we don't know about.
>
> After you graduate from The School of Rock, you can do graduate work
> in Metal. Good luck.
>
You mean metallography?
-tom
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:04:03
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 9:46 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> Second, anybody who posts or lurks on rbr - whether all year or only
> in July - loves the sport and doesn't want it killed. We loved this
> year's tour when Kodi, Vino and Skeletor were in it, and the podium
> was an actual competition, dope or no dope.
I enjoy it. But really, I don't care if cycling lives or dies. If it
can't survive on its own merits, then bye-bye. You think bike racing
is important. It isn't to me.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 20:59:00
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
in message <1185555843.700837.297990@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com >, SLAVE
of THE STATE ('gwhite@ti.com') wrote:
> On Jul 27, 9:46 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>
>> Second, anybody who posts or lurks on rbr - whether all year or only
>> in July - loves the sport and doesn't want it killed. We loved this
>> year's tour when Kodi, Vino and Skeletor were in it, and the podium
>> was an actual competition, dope or no dope.
>
> I enjoy it. But really, I don't care if cycling lives or dies. If it
> can't survive on its own merits, then bye-bye. You think bike racing
> is important. It isn't to me.
Fine. Off you go and discuss something that is important to you, somewhere
else. It's important to me, and to a number of other people here.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If any council in the country has anything to say to cyclists
;; about cycle paths, it should be: "We are terribly, terribly sorry."
- Zoe Williams, The Guardian, 13th Sept 2006
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:01:22
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 7:43 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
> might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
> your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
> your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
You're a nut. I was and I never cared in the least bit if someone was
doping. If someone doesn't want to cycle-race, no one is forcing them
to do it.
> Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?
Because you are a loud-mouth.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 16:44:44
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:01:22 -0700, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com >
wrote:
>
>> But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
>> might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
>> your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
>> your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
>
>You're a nut. I was and I never cared in the least bit if someone was
>doping. If someone doesn't want to cycle-race, no one is forcing them
>to do it.
What's the next step up from saint? Bodhisattva?
Congratu-fucking-lations, dude, you're the champ.
Good thing I'm just a no talent club rider, because I'm pretty friggin
sure if I was of Pro/1/2 caliber, and busted my ass on regular food
and hard work to race for the podium, and was knocked off by people
who cheated, I would one pissed off mofo.
So hat's off to you, Buddha boy; we're not worthy...
>> Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?
>
>Because you are a loud-mouth.
Another irony challenged cretin who posts on usenet and calls other
people loud-mouths.
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:24:46
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article
<oqlka3pnh56b2k81ecvrspanjc26tcpk2i@4ax.com >,
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:01:22 -0700, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
> >> might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
> >> your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
> >> your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
> >
> >You're a nut. I was and I never cared in the least bit if someone was
> >doping. If someone doesn't want to cycle-race, no one is forcing them
> >to do it.
>
> What's the next step up from saint? Bodhisattva?
>
> Congratu-fucking-lations, dude, you're the champ.
>
> Good thing I'm just a no talent club rider, because I'm pretty friggin
> sure if I was of Pro/1/2 caliber, and busted my ass on regular food
> and hard work to race for the podium, and was knocked off by people
> who cheated, I would one pissed off mofo.
There are no `ifs' about it.
> So hat's off to you, Buddha boy; we're not worthy...
>
> >> Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?
> >
> >Because you are a loud-mouth.
>
> Another irony challenged cretin who posts on usenet and calls other
> people loud-mouths.
QED
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:56:57
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 6:32 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> anton2...@aol.com wrote:
> > You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
> You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
> a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
> We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
> and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>
> I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
> is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
> satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
> passtime.
Exacta-moon-dough
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:49:04
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 7:43 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
>
> The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
> money,
Ignoramous -
The budget of all the Protour teams combined is only about $200
million (if that). That's a lot of money for an individual, but
compared to the entire economy it's nothing.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:46:43
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 6:52 am, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
>
> Bottom line: how can you slam a guy who DID win the TdF 3 times while
> clean?
Fucktard -
He's no longer actively involved in the racing end of cycling. He has
no firsthand knowledge whatsoever of what the current riders are or
are not doing.
For a good example of the way to act: Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault,
Miguel Indurain. If they don't know something, they don't pretend to.
The epitome of the graceful former champions.
For a good example of the way not to act: Greg Lemond. Self-righteous
blowhard. He's so egocentric he doesn't realize he's no different than
those who accused Lemond of doing drugs.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:46:37
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 11:32 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com >
wrote:
> > Wow. I nominate you for cycling saint of the year: "I am high on
> > life; this petty squabbling is beneath me."
>
> > What self righteous, self-important hogwash.
>
> > Did it ever occur to you that all the Master Fatties, the clubbies and
> > the Cat 4's and below in this world get the same satisfaction as you.
> > Even me.
>
> > But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
> > might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
> > your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
> > your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
> > Then you would have to decide just how above it all you really were.
> > Would you still stay above the fray? Would you get on your Greg
> > Lemond soapbox and excoriate the dopers? Or would you risk your own
> > health and join the club?
>
> > Somehow I doubt you've ever had to face making such a decision.
>
> > The cycling "witch hunt" makes page 10 of the newspapers in USA. On
> > page 1 is Barry Bonds, professional baseball and steroids. Page 2 is
> > American football. Page 3 is steroids and the PGA. Page 4 is doping
> > and the Olympics. Etc. Then there's European football. Etc.
>
> > The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
> > money, the following, the actual importance in people's lives, even if
> > they are "mere diversions." Clean athletes are important on many
> > levels. Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?
>
> > Sorry dude. Your "I'm above it all and the cure is worse than the
> > disease" is an unrealistic, out of touch attitude.
>
> You got all that out of these two paragraphs?
>
> >>You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
> >>a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
> >>We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
> >>and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>
> >>I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
> >>is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
> >>satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
> >>passtime.
>
> When I was a lowly Cat-2, racing with Cat 1 & Pros, doping was there in the
> background. People knew of it, but, I dunno why, it just didn't matter. It
> was a choice that others made to cheat, although I don't think some of us
> even saw it as cheating per se. It was more like an extension of the
> recreational drug usage so popular at the time (mid-70s). Did I have less
> chance of winning because I didn't dope? I never thought of it that way.
> Factually, it *may* have been true, but I believed then, and still believe
> now, my biggest obstacle to my own success was found in the mirror. I
> thought then, and still believe now, that you can win without doping. It may
> not be as easy, and you may have to work a lot harder.
>
> I'm not suggesting we shouldn't go after those doping. I'm just saying that
> it doesn't have to kill the sport for the rest of us, whether we're
> spectators or Masters Fatties or whatever.
Indeed. It seems to me that the real objection is that doping is not
"fair". For the life of me, I can't think of a single thing in this
life that _is_ fair. I can understand the disappointment when a
sporting hero is exposed for a cheat, but, really, what do you
expect? People are attempting to legislate stupidity out of existence
and "fairness" into existence. Ain't gonna happen. Get over it and
get on with the business at hand.
The thing that I find most unfortunate is that Munchkin being booted
happened at the end of the mountain stages and now all we're left with
are some flats and a TT. Disappointment and denouement were not part
of the script. All the riders just want to go home. Let's just skip
to the TT, put an asterisk next to the winner's name and move on.
There's always next year.
R
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 07:54:02
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 3:08 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> > winners, and no races either.
> > That's a perfect solution.
> > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
> Michele Ferrari?
Now you're in "Bargaining." Still got Depression and Acceptance to go.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 07:16:41
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
>
> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
At the time doping wasn't even on my radar and it still sounded
extremely odd.
The way he cries I'm sure he's a woman - maybe he was menstruating
heavily and lost a lot of blood.
R
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 18:42:13
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article
<1185545801.692785.38560@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com >,
RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> > I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
> > year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> > deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
> >
> > Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
>
> At the time doping wasn't even on my radar and it still sounded
> extremely odd.
>
> The way he cries I'm sure he's a woman - maybe he was menstruating
> heavily and lost a lot of blood.
Dammit, RJ! You are way ahead on points. What are you taking?
--
Michael Press
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:52:06
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote in message
news:1185545801.692785.38560@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 9:55 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
>> that
>> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
>> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>>
>> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
>
> At the time doping wasn't even on my radar and it still sounded
> extremely odd.
>
> The way he cries I'm sure he's a woman - maybe he was menstruating
> heavily and lost a lot of blood.
Precisely - if anyone doesn't recognize the effects of EPO from his story
they simply don't know anything about the stuff.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 13:59:49
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 3:55 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> > winners, and no races either.
> > That's a perfect solution.
> > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
It's quite obvious.
After a lead shot he was slowly lowering his metal habit with Iron. At
the end he probably used copper ^^
Do I get a price?
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 07:05:47
From: Tom Nakashima
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
<teaser4ever@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185544789.166575.204450@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 3:55 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
>> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
>> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>> > winners, and no races either.
>> > That's a perfect solution.
>> > Next witch to the stake please!
>>
>> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
>> that
>> year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
>> deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>>
>> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
>
> It's quite obvious.
>
> After a lead shot he was slowly lowering his metal habit with Iron. At
> the end he probably used copper ^^
>
> Do I get a price?
>
Maybe there's something mysterious about metal that we don't know about.
-tom
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 06:21:40
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 8:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> On Jul 27, 5:12 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > JC <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> > >http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
> > > -------
> > > LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
> > > to implicate other riders, too.
> > > "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
> > > relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
> > > "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
> > > fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
> > > to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
> > > France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
> > > "Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
> > > doping scandal that rocked Spain.
> > > "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
> > > fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
> > > LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
> > > name a champion this year.
> > > "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
> > > --------
>
> > My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
> > be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
> > truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
> > and Mazano's are the only heros.
>
> > We still have an all dirty podium:
>
> > Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
> > involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
> > as his personal adviser.
>
> > Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.
>
> > Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
> > Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
> > he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
> > Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
> > the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
> > After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
> > Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
> > and steared clear.
>
> > Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
> > the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.
>
> > --
> > Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> > Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> winners, and no races either.
> That's a perfect solution.
> Next witch to the stake please!
> Bill C- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bill
You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
flames arn't visible from the outside.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:11:29
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article
<1185542500.572093.121590@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com >
,
anton2468@aol.com wrote:
> On Jul 27, 8:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> > for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> > he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> > winners, and no races either.
> > That's a perfect solution.
> > Next witch to the stake please!
>
> You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
> You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
> but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
> flames arn't visible from the outside.
You are oblivious. You have no idea what he thinks,
what he has seen, and his what his values are. If you
read what people write, and attended to rbr when there
was not a doping scandal on you would know enough not
to write these scurrilous lines.
--
Michael Press
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:45:35
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:21:40 -0700, anton2468@aol.com wrote:
>On Jul 27, 8:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 5:12 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > JC <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>> > >http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
>> > > -------
>> > > LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
>> > > to implicate other riders, too.
>> > > "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
>> > > relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
>> > > "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
>> > > fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
>> > > to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
>> > > France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
>> > > "Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
>> > > doping scandal that rocked Spain.
>> > > "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
>> > > fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
>> > > LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
>> > > name a champion this year.
>> > > "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
>> > > --------
>>
>> > My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
>> > be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
>> > truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
>> > and Mazano's are the only heros.
>>
>> > We still have an all dirty podium:
>>
>> > Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
>> > involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
>> > as his personal adviser.
>>
>> > Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.
>>
>> > Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
>> > Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
>> > he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
>> > Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
>> > the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
>> > After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
>> > Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
>> > and steared clear.
>>
>> > Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
>> > the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.
>>
>> > --
>> > Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>>
>> > Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
>> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
>> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>> winners, and no races either.
>> That's a perfect solution.
>> Next witch to the stake please!
>> Bill C- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Bill
>
>You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
>You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
>but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
>flames arn't visible from the outside.
You are so bereft of clue. This entire tantrum amounted to nothing more than
"they're faster than me, they must be dirty." That really is all he's got.
And you know what? Even if they are all doping, they can put down the needle,
but Greg is still going to be an asshole who has to live with himself 24 hours
of every hellish day.
BTW, does he drink heavily?
Ron
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:09:22
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Dans le message de news:pg4ka3502le39ftbfpu4j3uedgnobe1cl5@4ax.com,
RonSonic <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:21:40 -0700, anton2468@aol.com wrote:
>
>> On Jul 27, 8:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On Jul 27, 5:12 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> JC <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
>>>>> -------
>>>>> LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be
>>>>> equal, you have to implicate other riders, too.
>>>>> "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence
>>>>> and relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away
>>>>> with it. "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and
>>>>> both are climbing as fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right
>>>>> there," he said in a reference to the late Italian Marco Pantani,
>>>>> a superb climber who won both the Tour de France and Giro
>>>>> d'Italia in 1998. "Contador has been involved in 'Operation
>>>>> Puerto'," he added, citing the doping scandal that rocked Spain.
>>>>> "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if
>>>>> you point fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders
>>>>> next to him."
>>>>> LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served
>>>>> if it didn't name a champion this year.
>>>>> "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
>>>>> --------
>>>
>>>> My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
>>>> be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling
>>>> the truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse,
>>>> Simioni and Mazano's are the only heros.
>>>
>>>> We still have an all dirty podium:
>>>
>>>> Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
>>>> involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
>>>> as his personal adviser.
>>>
>>>> Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.
>>>
>>>> Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
>>>> Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said
>>>> that he would have called an pressconference before the tour when
>>>> Michael Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the
>>>> press about the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih
>>>> national team.
>>>> After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
>>>> Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's
>>>> suggesting and steared clear.
>>>
>>>> Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma
>>>> durring the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to
>>>> suggestions.
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-)
>>>> <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>>>
>>>> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be
>>> banned for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't
>>> cheat, and he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would
>>> be no winners, and no races either.
>>> That's a perfect solution.
>>> Next witch to the stake please!
>>> Bill C- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>>
>> You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
>> but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
>> flames arn't visible from the outside.
>
> You are so bereft of clue. This entire tantrum amounted to nothing
> more than "they're faster than me, they must be dirty." That really
> is all he's got.
>
> And you know what? Even if they are all doping, they can put down the
> needle, but Greg is still going to be an asshole who has to live with
> himself 24 hours of every hellish day.
>
> BTW, does he drink heavily?
>
> Ron
Do you still beat your wife/partner/monkey?
Drop it, or your mimicry of JFT and Lafferty will flatten you.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 16:23:22
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
anton2468 wrote:
> You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
> You can see smoke, feel the heat, smell the burning, see the damage,
> but you just cant admit there is a fire in the house because the
> flames arn't visible from the outside.
Good on you, lets see some more rightous indignation. You rightous
crusaders are doing wonders for the rbr July hit count. Keep it up, and
just to give you some ammunition I'll let you in on a secret. We all know
they dope and we don't really care, its not cheating if everybodies doing
it.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:32:26
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
anton2468@aol.com wrote:
> You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
passtime.
--
E. Dronkert
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:34:47
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
in message <6csja3577i0k2fmq1564qp1li3npkpfd5s@4ax.com >, Ewoud Dronkert
('firstname@lastname.net.invalid') wrote:
> I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
> is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
> satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
> passtime.
Exactly. I cycle because I enjoy cycling. I watch the Tour because I enjoy
seeing other people do something I do, but very considerably better than I
ever will. I admire great riders because they ride brilliantly. Whether or
not they dope - well, it would be better if they didn't, but I'm still an
Ivan Basso fan.
There are exactly two cyclists in the peloton today who it would upset me
to learn were doping: Jens Voigt, and Tom Boonen. I believe in their
integrity and I would feel really disillusioned if they were doping now.
I'm not even a Boonen fan. I wouldn't even be upset to learn that Jens had
doped five years ago...
For the other 300 odd pro-tour riders, I either don't care enough either
way, or I don't believe enough in their personal integrity to be upset.
David Millar, Thomas Voeckler, Magnus Backstedt, Alexander Vinokourov?
These are guys I love to watch, whom I'll cheer for any stage they race -
but it wouldn't shock me to learn that any of them were doping.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:43:20
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:32:26 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert
<firstname@lastname.net.invalid > wrote:
>anton2468@aol.com wrote:
>> You are the Epitomy of the cycling enthusiast in denial.
>
>You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
>a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
>We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
>and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>
>I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
>is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
>satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
>passtime.
Wow. I nominate you for cycling saint of the year: "I am high on
life; this petty squabbling is beneath me."
What self righteous, self-important hogwash.
Did it ever occur to you that all the Master Fatties, the clubbies and
the Cat 4's and below in this world get the same satisfaction as you.
Even me.
But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
Then you would have to decide just how above it all you really were.
Would you still stay above the fray? Would you get on your Greg
Lemond soapbox and excoriate the dopers? Or would you risk your own
health and join the club?
Somehow I doubt you've ever had to face making such a decision.
The cycling "witch hunt" makes page 10 of the newspapers in USA. On
page 1 is Barry Bonds, professional baseball and steroids. Page 2 is
American football. Page 3 is steroids and the PGA. Page 4 is doping
and the Olympics. Etc. Then there's European football. Etc.
The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
money, the following, the actual importance in people's lives, even if
they are "mere diversions." Clean athletes are important on many
levels. Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?
Sorry dude. Your "I'm above it all and the cure is worse than the
disease" is an unrealistic, out of touch attitude.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:32:00
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
> Wow. I nominate you for cycling saint of the year: "I am high on
> life; this petty squabbling is beneath me."
>
> What self righteous, self-important hogwash.
>
> Did it ever occur to you that all the Master Fatties, the clubbies and
> the Cat 4's and below in this world get the same satisfaction as you.
> Even me.
>
> But I suspect if you were a Cat 3 or above other people's doping just
> might hit a tad closer to the bone in your personal cycling - where
> your satisfaction might be more geared to your objective placing and
> your points and not just your isolated and pristine subjective world.
> Then you would have to decide just how above it all you really were.
> Would you still stay above the fray? Would you get on your Greg
> Lemond soapbox and excoriate the dopers? Or would you risk your own
> health and join the club?
>
> Somehow I doubt you've ever had to face making such a decision.
>
> The cycling "witch hunt" makes page 10 of the newspapers in USA. On
> page 1 is Barry Bonds, professional baseball and steroids. Page 2 is
> American football. Page 3 is steroids and the PGA. Page 4 is doping
> and the Olympics. Etc. Then there's European football. Etc.
>
> The point is that all these spectator sports are HUGE in terms of the
> money, the following, the actual importance in people's lives, even if
> they are "mere diversions." Clean athletes are important on many
> levels. Otherwise why would anybody be talking about it at all?
>
> Sorry dude. Your "I'm above it all and the cure is worse than the
> disease" is an unrealistic, out of touch attitude.
You got all that out of these two paragraphs?
>>You don't get it at all. Bill knows perfectly well what goes on or has
>>a pretty good idea, like we all have. Why are you on such a mission?
>>We mostly don't care. Or at least, I care about cycling as a spectacle
>>and think that the witch hunt is much worse than the doping.
>>
>>I also care about cycling as a participant but then, too, the doping
>>is totally unimportant. Who cares if others dope? I get my
>>satisfaction from training, suffering and improving. It's just a
>>passtime.
When I was a lowly Cat-2, racing with Cat 1 & Pros, doping was there in the
background. People knew of it, but, I dunno why, it just didn't matter. It
was a choice that others made to cheat, although I don't think some of us
even saw it as cheating per se. It was more like an extension of the
recreational drug usage so popular at the time (mid-70s). Did I have less
chance of winning because I didn't dope? I never thought of it that way.
Factually, it *may* have been true, but I believed then, and still believe
now, my biggest obstacle to my own success was found in the mirror. I
thought then, and still believe now, that you can win without doping. It may
not be as easy, and you may have to work a lot harder.
I'm not suggesting we shouldn't go after those doping. I'm just saying that
it doesn't have to kill the sport for the rest of us, whether we're
spectators or Masters Fatties or whatever.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 12:46:09
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:32:00 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
>When I was a lowly Cat-2, racing with Cat 1 & Pros, doping was there in the
>background. People knew of it, but, I dunno why, it just didn't matter. It
>was a choice that others made to cheat, although I don't think some of us
>even saw it as cheating per se. It was more like an extension of the
>recreational drug usage so popular at the time (mid-70s). Did I have less
>chance of winning because I didn't dope? I never thought of it that way.
>Factually, it *may* have been true, but I believed then, and still believe
>now, my biggest obstacle to my own success was found in the mirror. I
>thought then, and still believe now, that you can win without doping. It may
>not be as easy, and you may have to work a lot harder.
>
>I'm not suggesting we shouldn't go after those doping. I'm just saying that
>it doesn't have to kill the sport for the rest of us, whether we're
>spectators or Masters Fatties or whatever.
First, from where I sit Cat. 2 is not lowly; it's god-like :-)
Second, anybody who posts or lurks on rbr - whether all year or only
in July - loves the sport and doesn't want it killed. We loved this
year's tour when Kodi, Vino and Skeletor were in it, and the podium
was an actual competition, dope or no dope.
It's just that some of us have a naive belief that a level playing
field of athletes competing on just "food" and training, and not stuff
that has to be injected with needles, is preferable to the status quo,
and also the innocent hope that it somehow can be pulled off.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:20:30
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article
<4t7ka31fiju0ejmpo3v2ffm3oqk3milas0@4ax.com >,
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:32:00 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>
> >When I was a lowly Cat-2, racing with Cat 1 & Pros, doping was there in the
> >background. People knew of it, but, I dunno why, it just didn't matter. It
> >was a choice that others made to cheat, although I don't think some of us
> >even saw it as cheating per se. It was more like an extension of the
> >recreational drug usage so popular at the time (mid-70s). Did I have less
> >chance of winning because I didn't dope? I never thought of it that way.
> >Factually, it *may* have been true, but I believed then, and still believe
> >now, my biggest obstacle to my own success was found in the mirror. I
> >thought then, and still believe now, that you can win without doping. It may
> >not be as easy, and you may have to work a lot harder.
> >
> >I'm not suggesting we shouldn't go after those doping. I'm just saying that
> >it doesn't have to kill the sport for the rest of us, whether we're
> >spectators or Masters Fatties or whatever.
>
> First, from where I sit Cat. 2 is not lowly; it's god-like :-)
>
> Second, anybody who posts or lurks on rbr - whether all year or only
> in July - loves the sport and doesn't want it killed. We loved this
> year's tour when Kodi, Vino and Skeletor were in it, and the podium
> was an actual competition, dope or no dope.
>
> It's just that some of us have a naive belief that a level playing
> field of athletes competing on just "food" and training, and not stuff
> that has to be injected with needles, is preferable to the status quo,
> and also the innocent hope that it somehow can be pulled off.
It is preferable but this state of affairs has never
existed in any competitive endeavor.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 22:28:32
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
> First, from where I sit Cat. 2 is not lowly; it's god-like :-)
From where I sit, it's not even something I can really relate to at all.
Actually that's not true. There's still that drive inside that wants me to
race again, but there's no way I have the time to do so, nor the inclination
to be that selfish and take more time away from the business and family.
Meanwhile, I'm in France with my 14 year old son, watching things play out.
Fortunately the various scandals aren't diminishing his enjoyment of the
race.
Funny, when I raced competitively, I never cared that much about the Tour de
France. Now I'm over here again, 7th year in a row I think, maybe 8th,
losing track!
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Doug Taylor" <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote in message
news:4t7ka31fiju0ejmpo3v2ffm3oqk3milas0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:32:00 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>
>>When I was a lowly Cat-2, racing with Cat 1 & Pros, doping was there in
>>the
>>background. People knew of it, but, I dunno why, it just didn't matter. It
>>was a choice that others made to cheat, although I don't think some of us
>>even saw it as cheating per se. It was more like an extension of the
>>recreational drug usage so popular at the time (mid-70s). Did I have less
>>chance of winning because I didn't dope? I never thought of it that way.
>>Factually, it *may* have been true, but I believed then, and still believe
>>now, my biggest obstacle to my own success was found in the mirror. I
>>thought then, and still believe now, that you can win without doping. It
>>may
>>not be as easy, and you may have to work a lot harder.
>>
>>I'm not suggesting we shouldn't go after those doping. I'm just saying
>>that
>>it doesn't have to kill the sport for the rest of us, whether we're
>>spectators or Masters Fatties or whatever.
>
> First, from where I sit Cat. 2 is not lowly; it's god-like :-)
>
> Second, anybody who posts or lurks on rbr - whether all year or only
> in July - loves the sport and doesn't want it killed. We loved this
> year's tour when Kodi, Vino and Skeletor were in it, and the podium
> was an actual competition, dope or no dope.
>
> It's just that some of us have a naive belief that a level playing
> field of athletes competing on just "food" and training, and not stuff
> that has to be injected with needles, is preferable to the status quo,
> and also the innocent hope that it somehow can be pulled off.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 10:17:12
From: Mark
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Funny, when I raced competitively, I never cared that much about the Tour de
> France. Now I'm over here again, 7th year in a row I think, maybe 8th,
> losing track!
Mike, if you're somewhere around my age, when you were racing (in the
US, I presume), there was virtually no news coverage of the Tour locally
available until about a month after it ended. That tends to dampen
enthusiasm. That and the fact that there were very few English-speaking
competitors; whether that's anglocentric or not, it did make it harder
for us to relate back then.
Mark J.
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 05:38:50
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Jul 27, 5:12 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> JC <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> >http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
> > -------
> > LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
> > to implicate other riders, too.
> > "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
> > relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
> > "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
> > fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
> > to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
> > France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
> > "Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
> > doping scandal that rocked Spain.
> > "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
> > fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
> > LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
> > name a champion this year.
> > "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
> > --------
>
> My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
> be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
> truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
> and Mazano's are the only heros.
>
> We still have an all dirty podium:
>
> Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
> involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
> as his personal adviser.
>
> Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.
>
> Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
> Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
> he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
> Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
> the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
> After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
> Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
> and steared clear.
>
> Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
> the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.
>
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
winners, and no races either.
That's a perfect solution.
Next witch to the stake please!
Bill C
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:08:23
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote:
> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> winners, and no races either.
> That's a perfect solution.
> Next witch to the stake please!
What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
Michele Ferrari?
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:48:02
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:7b7pn4-lf9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
>> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
>> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>> winners, and no races either.
>> That's a perfect solution.
>> Next witch to the stake please!
>
> What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
> Michele Ferrari?
With all that proof who could doubt you?
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 14:50:41
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
> news:7b7pn4-lf9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> > Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> >> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> >> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> >> winners, and no races either.
> >> That's a perfect solution.
> >> Next witch to the stake please!
> >
> > What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
> > Michele Ferrari?
> With all that proof who could doubt you?
Leipheimer is a former Ferrari client, while at Gerolsteiner the team
prohibeted him using Ferrari. Now he is back with Discovery whom we
know doesn't have any problems with Michele Ferrari.
As of Evans, he apperantly himself says that he is working with
Ferrari. German sport channel had a note yesterday:
<http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html >
Secondly, Evans was part of the Australian OL200 cycling team. They did
very well, hirering ex DDR cycling trainers for the nationalteam
durring the 90s paid of, a kickstarted an Austrailian cycling.
As of the "Iv'e lost to cheats before and i will loose to cheats
again" remark, he must refer to himself.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 01:32:51
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:1mqrn4-9fa.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
>> news:7b7pn4-lf9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
>> > Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
>> >> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
>> >> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>> >> winners, and no races either.
>> >> That's a perfect solution.
>> >> Next witch to the stake please!
>> >
>> > What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
>> > Michele Ferrari?
>
>> With all that proof who could doubt you?
>
> Leipheimer is a former Ferrari client, while at Gerolsteiner the team
> prohibeted him using Ferrari. Now he is back with Discovery whom we
> know doesn't have any problems with Michele Ferrari.
It must really hurt you deeply that Soler hasn't been found positive.
> As of Evans, he apperantly himself says that he is working with
> Ferrari. German sport channel had a note yesterday:
> <http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html>
I hate to point this out to you but if you are trying to connect Ferrari to
drugs I suggest you do it more openly so that Dr. Ferrari can take legal
actions against you as he should.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 13:42:01
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
> news:1mqrn4-9fa.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> > Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
> >> news:7b7pn4-lf9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> >> > Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> >> >> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> >> >> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> >> >> winners, and no races either.
> >> >> That's a perfect solution.
> >> >> Next witch to the stake please!
> >> >
> >> > What do you think about Evans and Leipheimer being clients of Dr.
> >> > Michele Ferrari?
> >
> >> With all that proof who could doubt you?
> >
> > Leipheimer is a former Ferrari client, while at Gerolsteiner the team
> > prohibeted him using Ferrari. Now he is back with Discovery whom we
> > know doesn't have any problems with Michele Ferrari.
> It must really hurt you deeply that Soler hasn't been found positive.
not really, if he's positive hes out. If he's negative he can race.
> > As of Evans, he apperantly himself says that he is working with
> > Ferrari. German sport channel had a note yesterday:
> > <http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html>
> I hate to point this out to you but if you are trying to connect Ferrari to
> drugs I suggest you do it more openly so that Dr. Ferrari can take legal
> actions against you as he should.
ROTFL.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 13:55:21
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
> winners, and no races either.
> That's a perfect solution.
> Next witch to the stake please!
I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro that
year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an "iron
deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 16:23:12
From: benjo maso
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote in message
news:dPmqi.12334$Od7.1075@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
>> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
>> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>> winners, and no races either.
>> That's a perfect solution.
>> Next witch to the stake please!
>
> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
> that year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an
> "iron deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>
> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
It's quite possible his doctor gave him epo. But if he did, so what? In 1989
it was not yet on the list of banned substances, and by almost all doctors
only seen as a very effective medicine for patients suffering from aneamia.
Anyhow, according to dr. Jeanne-Pierre de Modenard, probably world's
greatest expert in the field of the history of doping, writer of six
extremel;y informative books on the subject, and owner of an incredible rich
archive, declared a few days ago that he is convinced that Greg Lemond is
the only TdF-winner after the war who never deliberately used doping.
Benjo
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:55:06
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl > wrote in message
news:5gudeeF3h0sbhU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:dPmqi.12334$Od7.1075@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> "Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:1185539930.774897.201190@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Well your aproach would validate Greg because they would all be banned
>>> for life, except Greg, 'cause he's the only one who didn't cheat, and
>>> he'd be the virtual winner of everything, or there would be no
>>> winners, and no races either.
>>> That's a perfect solution.
>>> Next witch to the stake please!
>>
>> I do find it very interesting that LeMond was riding poorly in the Giro
>> that year and a month later after magically discovering that he had an
>> "iron deficiency" and a mysterious shot, he won the Tour de France.
>>
>> Everyone who doesn't know what that means raise your hands.
>
> It's quite possible his doctor gave him epo. But if he did, so what? In
> 1989 it was not yet on the list of banned substances, and by almost all
> doctors only seen as a very effective medicine for patients suffering from
> aneamia. Anyhow, according to dr. Jeanne-Pierre de Modenard, probably
> world's greatest expert in the field of the history of doping, writer of
> six extremel;y informative books on the subject, and owner of an
> incredible rich archive, declared a few days ago that he is convinced that
> Greg Lemond is the only TdF-winner after the war who never deliberately
> used doping.
I'm not saying that LeMond doped on purpose but that he is calling everyone
else a cheater when he so obviously was juiced as well.
This isn't about the winners of the Tour de France - whatever happened is
over and done with. It is about the crying about cheaters by people who
cheat.
What about that asshole who posts here who was kicked out of racing for
doping and has spent the last couple of years screaming about how everyone
in cycling is a cheater?
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 15:42:43
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
benjo maso wrote:
> Anyhow, according to dr. Jeanne-Pierre de Modenard, probably world's
> greatest expert in the field of the history of doping, writer of six
> extremel;y informative books on the subject, and owner of an incredible rich
> archive, declared a few days ago that he is convinced that Greg Lemond is
> the only TdF-winner after the war who never deliberately used doping.
Poor Gino is turning over in his grave.
Bob Schwartz
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 20:05:58
From: benjo maso
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:Tnoqi.29182$2v1.15685@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
> benjo maso wrote:
>> Anyhow, according to dr. Jeanne-Pierre de Modenard, probably world's
>> greatest expert in the field of the history of doping, writer of six
>> extremel;y informative books on the subject, and owner of an incredible
>> rich archive, declared a few days ago that he is convinced that Greg
>> Lemond is the only TdF-winner after the war who never deliberately used
>> doping.
>
> Poor Gino is turning over in his grave.
Not quite. Bartali has told in an interview that in the last year of his
career he once saw how one of the Maggini brothers offered some pink pills
to the other. Bartali asked if he could have one too, being curious what all
the fuzz was about. He said it made him sick. By the way. let's hope
Prudhomme won't discover it: he probably would erase Bartali's name from the
history of the Tour.
Benjo
|
| |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:12:37
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
JC <nobody@home.com > wrote:
> http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22143376-23218,00.html
> -------
> LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you have
> to implicate other riders, too.
> "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
> relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
> "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
> fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a reference
> to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour de
> France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
> "Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
> doping scandal that rocked Spain.
> "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
> fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
> LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
> name a champion this year.
> "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
> --------
My respect for Lemond is the uttermost. If cycling really want's to
be a clean sport it needs to start taking the few people telling the
truth seriously, insted of dismissing their motives. Jachkse, Simioni
and Mazano's are the only heros.
We still have an all dirty podium:
Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari, Contardor is deeply
involved with operation puerto and rumord to still have Manolo Saiz
as his personal adviser.
Rasmussen is out because of a case of extremely bad press handling.
Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
and steared clear.
Nygaard says that he has even tried counceling Jacob Bergsma durring
the last two weeks but Bergman hasn't been open to suggestions.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 14:19:42
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:12:37 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
>Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
>he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
>Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
>the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
>After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
>Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
>and steared clear.
Interesting info.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 08:02:30
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
> Acording to CSC's pressagent, Brian Nygaard, Rabobanks pressagent
> Jacob Bergman has done just about everything wrong. Nyggard said that
> he would have called an pressconference before the tour when Michael
> Rasmussen got his 2nd warnming from the UCI and told the press about
> the warnings and the exclusion from the dansih national team.
> After that there wouldn't have been a case. I'd guess a team like
> Discovery would have handled it simmilar to what Nygaard's suggesting
> and steared clear.
If they had done that then Rasmussen never would have started. In
an era where riders are banned on suspicion that isn't a viable
strategy.
Bob Schwartz
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 22:40:54
From: Shane Stanley
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article <5hpon4-bb9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari
Who says Evans is?
--
Shane Stanley
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 14:28:52
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Shane Stanley <sstanley@myriad-com.nospam.com.au > wrote:
> In article <5hpon4-bb9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk>,
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > Evans and Leipheimer are clients of Dr. Ferari
> Who says Evans is?
Apperantly he says so himself:
<http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html >
Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 22:09:10
From: Shane Stanley
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article <4dprn4-rea.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> Apperantly he says so himself:
>
> <http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html>
Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
You're grasping at straws.
>
> Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
> generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did, sometime
in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
implicates" indeed.
Evans might or might not be clean, but so far I think you've set a new
record in slandering on the basis of the flimsiest of evidenced. And in
these times, that's no mean feat.
--
Shane Stanley
|
| | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 16:48:17
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Shane Stanley <sstanley@myriad-com.nospam.com.au > wrote:
> In article <4dprn4-rea.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk>,
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > Apperantly he says so himself:
> >
> > <http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html>
> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
> You're grasping at straws.
i quote:
"Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did, sometime
> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
> implicates" indeed.
Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the DDR
coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 21:36:36
From: Shane Stanley
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article <hulun4-rt3.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> i quote:
That's not Evans saying he works with Ferrari, which was what you
claimed. You said: "Apperantly he says so himself". You statement is
mud-slinging, with no evidence.
> Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program.
Ah, well now you have absolute proof -- he rode a mountain bike. You
might also look at the relationship between MTB and road cycling at the
time. (TT program? There wasn't/isn't one, unless TT is some secret
code you've made up.) You realise you're just digging yourself a bigger
hole?
> Secondly the DDR
> coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
> Giant-AIS amateur team.
And according to you he brought a team of doctors and coaches with him.
But again, you have not the slightest shred of evidence.
--
Shane Stanley
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 10:38:00
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Shane Stanley <sstanley@myriad-com.nospam.com.au > wrote:
> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program.
> Ah, well now you have absolute proof -- he rode a mountain bike. You
> might also look at the relationship between MTB and road cycling at the
> time. (TT program? There wasn't/isn't one, unless TT is some secret
> code you've made up.) You realise you're just digging yourself a bigger
> hole?
Well Evans was a junior TT roadrace world champion, wasn't he?
Wouldn't that imply that Evans rode both road race and MTB durring the
90's?
> > Secondly the DDR
> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
> > Giant-AIS amateur team.
> And according to you he brought a team of doctors and coaches with him.
> But again, you have not the slightest shred of evidence.
AIS brougth them, not the cycling headcoach. The doctors treted
cyclists, swimmers, athletics etc.
AIS and China picking up where DDR left isn't exactly a secret.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Aug 2007 09:48:58
From: Shane Stanley
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
In article <8093o4-sd4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> AIS brougth them, not the cycling headcoach. The doctors treted
> cyclists, swimmers, athletics etc.
And these doctors were? And who were the coaches?
>
> AIS and China picking up where DDR left isn't exactly a secret.
So why is it that the only ex-DDR person you can name has left (and gone
to Denmark, as it happens?)
--
Shane Stanley
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 01:26:10
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:hulun4-rt3.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Shane Stanley <sstanley@myriad-com.nospam.com.au> wrote:
>> In article <4dprn4-rea.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk>,
>> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
>> > Apperantly he says so himself:
>> >
>> > <http://www.sport1.de/de/sport/artikel_1500377.html>
>
>> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
>> You're grasping at straws.
>
> i quote:
>
> "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
> Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
> ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
> beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
> das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
>
>> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
>> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
>
>> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did, sometime
>> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
>> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
>> implicates" indeed.
>
> Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the DDR
> coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
> Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists who are
known the world over as being far and impartial.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 09:11:31
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> >> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
> >> You're grasping at straws.
> >
> > i quote:
> >
> > "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
> > Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
> > ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
> > beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
> > das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
> >
> >> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
> >> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
> >
> >> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did, sometime
> >> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
> >> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
> >> implicates" indeed.
> >
> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the DDR
> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
> > Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists who are
> known the world over as being far and impartial.
whos refering to dutch journalism?
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 23:25:43
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:3if0o4-vk4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> >> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
>> >> You're grasping at straws.
>> >
>> > i quote:
>> >
>> > "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
>> > Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
>> > ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
>> > beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
>> > das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
>> >
>> >> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
>> >> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
>> >
>> >> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did,
>> >> sometime
>> >> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
>> >> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
>> >> implicates" indeed.
>> >
>> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the DDR
>> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
>> > Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
>
>> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists who
>> are
>> known the world over as being far and impartial.
>
> whos refering to dutch journalism?
Don't avoid the point Morten - didn't you spout about Soler not so long ago?
You seem an intelligent person and I really hate to see your being led
around by journalists who are perfectly willing to invent anything they
can't accurately report.
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2007 09:17:54
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
|
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
> news:3if0o4-vk4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> > Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> >> >> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
> >> >> You're grasping at straws.
> >> >
> >> > i quote:
> >> >
> >> > "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
> >> > Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
> >> > ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
> >> > beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
> >> > das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
> >> >
> >> >> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian OL2000
> >> >> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling trainers.
> >> >
> >> >> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did,
> >> >> sometime
> >> >> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had nothing
> >> >> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
> >> >> implicates" indeed.
> >> >
> >> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the DDR
> >> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
> >> > Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
> >
> >> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists who
> >> are
> >> known the world over as being far and impartial.
> >
> > whos refering to dutch journalism?
> Don't avoid the point Morten - didn't you spout about Soler not so long ago?
I don't think i did so. I just passed a rumor when people started
asking about the rumored positive test.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 22:55:13
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:2a43o4-sa4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
>> news:3if0o4-vk4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
>> > Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> >> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
>> >> >> You're grasping at straws.
>> >> >
>> >> > i quote:
>> >> >
>> >> > "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
>> >> > Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
>> >> > ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
>> >> > beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
>> >> > das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
>> >> >
>> >> >> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian
>> >> >> > OL2000
>> >> >> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling
>> >> >> > trainers.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did,
>> >> >> sometime
>> >> >> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had
>> >> >> nothing
>> >> >> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
>> >> >> implicates" indeed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the
>> >> > DDR
>> >> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
>> >> > Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
>> >
>> >> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists
>> >> who
>> >> are
>> >> known the world over as being far and impartial.
>> >
>> > whos refering to dutch journalism?
>
>> Don't avoid the point Morten - didn't you spout about Soler not so long
>> ago?
>
> I don't think i did so. I just passed a rumor when people started
> asking about the rumored positive test.
Why are you avoiding the FACT that these journalists whom you have such
faith in, invented that story out of whole cloth?
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Date: 31 Jul 2007 22:55:13
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:2a43o4-sa4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote in message
>> news:3if0o4-vk4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
>> > Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> >> Not anywhere on that page, he doesn't -- he's not actually quoted.
>> >> >> You're grasping at straws.
>> >> >
>> >> > i quote:
>> >> >
>> >> > "Gegen den Australier liegen keine Verdachtsmomente vor. Was dem
>> >> > Lotto-Fahrer angelastet werden muss, ist die Zusammenarbeit mit dem
>> >> > ehemaligen Armstrong-Coach Dr. Michele Ferrari. Wie alle Fahrer
>> >> > beteuern, beschränkt sich die Tätigkeit von "Dottore Epo" rein auf
>> >> > das Erstellen von Trainingsplänen"
>> >> >
>> >> >> > Secondly history implicates him beeing part of the Australian
>> >> >> > OL2000
>> >> >> > generation, the Austtralians hired former DDR top cycling
>> >> >> > trainers.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Actually they hired *one*. But I guess the fact that they did,
>> >> >> sometime
>> >> >> in the 90s, when Evans was still a mountain bike rider and had
>> >> >> nothing
>> >> >> to do with the road program, is good enough for you. "History
>> >> >> implicates" indeed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Evans was part of the MTB program and the TT program. Secondly the
>> >> > DDR
>> >> > coach was _head_ coach of the cycling program AND manager of the
>> >> > Giant-AIS amateur team. Where did Evans start his carrier?
>> >
>> >> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists
>> >> who
>> >> are
>> >> known the world over as being far and impartial.
>> >
>> > whos refering to dutch journalism?
>
>> Don't avoid the point Morten - didn't you spout about Soler not so long
>> ago?
>
> I don't think i did so. I just passed a rumor when people started
> asking about the rumored positive test.
Why are you avoiding the FACT that the journalists simply invented a story
out of whole cloth? And that you actually believe the majority of what you
read as if it were indeed fact?
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Date: 30 Jul 2007 10:46:06
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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Tom Kunich wrote:
>> If there's one thing that everyone can trust it's Dutch journalists who are
>> known the world over as being far and impartial.
Morten Reippuert Knudsen wrote:
> whos refering to dutch journalism?
German is double dutch to Kunich.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 23:24:20
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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On Jul 26, 7:23 pm, "JC" <nob...@home.com > wrote:
<snip >
> LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it didn't
> name a champion this year.
>
> "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
That jackass seriously needs to shut up.
After he wasn't able to win anymore, he'd like it better if no one
else could either.
So lame. I have nothing but contempt for him.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:52:10
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:24:20 -0700, Kurgan Gringioni
<kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote:
>That jackass seriously needs to shut up.
>
>After he wasn't able to win anymore, he'd like it better if no one
>else could either.
>
>So lame. I have nothing but contempt for him.
Dumbass - Your contempt is seriously directed at the wrong guy. I'm
thinking that Bjarne Riis' confession (of the obvious) pretty much
supports and justifies everything Lemond has been whining about for
more than 10 years. He was all by himself out on a limb, getting
slammed by all the rbr cycling whores, and now he's looking pretty
much vindicated AFAIC.
Bottom line: how can you slam a guy who DID win the TdF 3 times while
clean? Put yourself in his place. How would you react if domestiques
start dropping you and winning races - doped to the gills it turns
out?
You'd become a self righteous blowhard.
Come to think of it, in some cases, you'd become simply a BIGGER and
LOUDER version of a existing self righteous blowhard.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:46:20
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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"Doug Taylor" <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote in message
news:e5tja39l049qdm0sc9b6k6mgr45i04s9h2@4ax.com...
>
> Bottom line: how can you slam a guy who DID win the TdF 3 times while
> clean? Put yourself in his place. How would you react if domestiques
> start dropping you and winning races - doped to the gills it turns
> out?
He let someone give him a shot ostensibly of "iron" claiming to be anemic
(which is extremely difficult for a man) and then became superman.
So tell me all about how clean he was.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:18:15
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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in message <e5tja39l049qdm0sc9b6k6mgr45i04s9h2@4ax.com >, Doug Taylor
('dtaylor@dreamscape.com') wrote:
> Dumbass - Your contempt is seriously directed at the wrong guy. I'm
> thinking that Bjarne Riis' confession (of the obvious) pretty much
> supports and justifies everything Lemond has been whining about for
> more than 10 years. He was all by himself out on a limb, getting
> slammed by all the rbr cycling whores, and now he's looking pretty
> much vindicated AFAIC.
>
> Bottom line: how can you slam a guy who DID win the TdF 3 times while
> clean?
Was he clean? Was he ever clean? When he was on the US cycling team, blood
doping was systematic. Could you be on the team, and not part of the
program?
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; my other religion is Emacs
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 14:07:05
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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Simon Brooke wrote:
> Was he clean? Was he ever clean? When he was on the US cycling team, blood
> doping was systematic. Could you be on the team, and not part of the
> program?
Lemond left the US team and turned pro in 1980 after the Moscow
Olympics.
The US Cycling Team blood doping scandal was in 1984. By that
time Lemond was standing on the Tour podium with Fignon and
Hinault.
Bob Schwartz
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 03:05:53
From:
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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> > "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
> > fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
"The fact that I am pointing my finger directly at Contador should in
no way be construed as me pointing fingers at Contador."
Lemond is the fingering champion, for sure.
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Date: 28 Jul 2007 01:07:13
From: alex beascoechea
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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<christie133@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185505553.545368.94850@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> > "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you
>> > point
>> > fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
>
> "The fact that I am pointing my finger directly at Contador should in
> no way be construed as me pointing fingers at Contador."
>
> Lemond is the fingering champion, for sure.
>
For me is amusing because Greg Lemond was the first cyclist for which I had
developed the believe that he was doped (probably completely unfounded).
I could not understand that someone that could do so well in the TdF and
eventually win it, could be so pathetic in other races and major tours . In
particular I could not understand how he could be so bad in the Giro (how
could it happen unless he was doped) . A true champion could never
participate in the Giro just to train, I assumed.
But it was not only his miraculous transformations for the TdF, but also his
miraculous recovery from the accident. But now his seems to have been all
virtue and sanctity.
He was the first in the development of a type of cyclist that lead to
Indurain and Armstrong. He must have been one of the first with a
millionaire contract and the first to realize that the TdF would become the
only game in town. Unfortunately.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:31:10
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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> LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you
have
> to implicate other riders, too.
>
> "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
> relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
> "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
> fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a
reference
> to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour
de
> France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
>
> "Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
> doping scandal that rocked Spain.
>
> "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
> fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
>
> LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it
didn't
> name a champion this year.
>
> "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
> --------
I would name Greg LeMond as the virtual champion of 2007 Tour.
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Date: 28 Jul 2007 16:51:37
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: LeMond on Contador
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In article
<ONcqi.12222$Od7.7213@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >
,
"Callistus Valerius" <jazzyboss@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > LeMond said: "If Rasmussen got caught, and if you want to be equal, you
> have
> > to implicate other riders, too.
> >
> > "You have a lot of riders against whom there's a lot of evidence and
> > relations to certain doctors. Those riders are getting away with it.
> > "Alberto Contador and Rasmussen are at 60kgs each and both are climbing as
> > fast as Pantani did. That's a red flag right there," he said in a
> reference
> > to the late Italian Marco Pantani, a superb climber who won both the Tour
> de
> > France and Giro d'Italia in 1998.
> >
> > "Contador has been involved in 'Operation Puerto'," he added, citing the
> > doping scandal that rocked Spain.
> >
> > "I'm not pointing fingers at Contador. I'm just saying that if you point
> > fingers at Rasmussen, you have to look at the riders next to him."
> >
> > LeMond said he thinks the Tour de France would be better served if it
> didn't
> > name a champion this year.
> >
> > "I would prefer to see a non-Tour de France winner," he said.
> > --------
> I would name Greg LeMond as the virtual champion of 2007 Tour.
He already is the last honest champion, God love him.
--
Michael Press
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