| |
Main
Date: 02 Jul 2007 02:00:42
From: Jason Spaceman
Subject: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
From the article:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/article2010066.ece
J. Spaceman
|
|
| |
Date: 04 Jul 2007 06:01:21
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
On Jul 4, 12:46 am, Fred Fredburger
<FredFredbur...@WhereAreTheNachos.huh > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> > But it's all in how you look at it. Greg, either by nature or by
> > upbringing, might not be a naturally optimistic person (it probably
> > improves one's racing: if you fear that something might go wrong, the
> > only way to work against that is to train more, train better, prepare
> > more, plan better; it's like an OCD fever-dream).
>
> This is why I believe the current concern over our children's
> self-esteem to be poorly thought through. Let them grow up to be
> neurotic, obsessively driven (but successful!) drones like the rest of us.
Exactly! Or almost exactly. I've never seen anything of value
created by a well adjusted person. If you think you've seen something
of value created by a well adjusted person, they're more likely just
adept at concealing their maladjustment. And I'm not talking about
Kveck's cross-dressing, so don't get your knickers in a knot. ;)
R
|
| | |
Date: 04 Jul 2007 10:35:46
From: mal
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
> Exactly! Or almost exactly. I've never seen anything of value
> created by a well adjusted person. If you think you've seen something
> of value created by a well adjusted person, they're more likely just
> adept at concealing their maladjustment. And I'm not talking about
> Kveck's cross-dressing, so don't get your knickers in a knot. ;)
>
> R
I recently spent a day at a mental hospital, interviewing the psychiatrists.
One guy said - No-one is completely sane, no-one is completely crazy.
Words to live by.
On the subject about Lemond, it does give credit to Eddy M, who seems well
adjusted at this
stage in his life, despite being Eddy M.
|
| |
Date: 03 Jul 2007 19:21:35
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
On Jul 3, 5:23 pm, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1183399870.018097.171140@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jul 2, 9:50 am, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> Jason Spaceman wrote:
> >>>> From the article:
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------=AD=AD--
> >>>> The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
> >>>> pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
> >>>> triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as=
a
> >>>> child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
> >>>> Read it at
> >>>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/arti=
.=2E.
> >>> Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tou=
r=2E
> >>> At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
> >> I wonder if he has any idea at all of how narcissitic he is.
>
> > So what does that matter? No matter what his personal strengths and
> > weaknesses he's still the first American to win the Tour de France. He's
> > still the guy that rode Bernard Hinault, maybe the most gifted bicycle =
racer
> > since Eddy Merckx, to a standstill. He still came back after a near fat=
al
> > accident and won twice more.
>
> > Greg LeMond is still a great athlete of his time and nothing he can say=
now
> > will ever change that.
>
> > I don't have to like his personality to recognize his talents.
>
> Of course, I respect his three wins, and I respect the trailblazing
> he did to pave the way for other Americans in the European peloton.
> I'm just disappointed at his post-retirement whining about how he
> could have won so many more "if only..." It's like those people who
> die whining about how they could have written the most important
> novel of the century, if only they hadn't had to work, raise
> kids, [insert excuse here]. It should be good enough that Lemond
> won one, two, three Tours. It should be good enough that he was
> the first American to win, and it should be good enough that he
> was the first American to wear the yellow jersey. But for some reason,
> those things aren't enough for him. He's bad-mouthed Armstrong, and
> he's bad-mouthed Landis, and it wasn't necessary for his legacy to
> do either.
Dumbass -
Nail on the head.
I was so impressed with what he did while he was racing. So
disappointing to see what he's done since.
thanks,
K=2E Gringioni.
|
| |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 18:11:10
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
On Jul 2, 9:50 am, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Jason Spaceman wrote:
> > From the article:
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=AD--
> > The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
> > pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
> > triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
> > child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=AD-
>
> > Read it at
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/arti...
>
> Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tour.
> At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
Dumbass -
I wonder if he has any idea at all of how narcissitic he is.
thanks,
K=2E Gringioni.
|
| | |
Date: 03 Jul 2007 01:52:49
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1183399870.018097.171140@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 2, 9:50 am, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Jason Spaceman wrote:
> > > From the article:
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
> > > pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
> > > triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
> > > child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
> >
> > > Read it at
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/arti...
> >
> > Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tour.
> > At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
>
> I wonder if he has any idea at all of how narcissitic he is.
So what does that matter? No matter what his personal strengths and
weaknesses he's still the first American to win the Tour de France. He's
still the guy that rode Bernard Hinault, maybe the most gifted bicycle racer
since Eddy Merckx, to a standstill. He still came back after a near fatal
accident and won twice more.
Greg LeMond is still a great athlete of his time and nothing he can say now
will ever change that.
I don't have to like his personality to recognize his talents.
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Jul 2007 20:23:58
From: bob sullivan
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1183399870.018097.171140@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 2, 9:50 am, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Jason Spaceman wrote:
>>>> From the article:
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
>>>> pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
>>>> triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
>>>> child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
>>>> Read it at
>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/arti...
>>> Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tour.
>>> At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
>> I wonder if he has any idea at all of how narcissitic he is.
>
> So what does that matter? No matter what his personal strengths and
> weaknesses he's still the first American to win the Tour de France. He's
> still the guy that rode Bernard Hinault, maybe the most gifted bicycle racer
> since Eddy Merckx, to a standstill. He still came back after a near fatal
> accident and won twice more.
>
> Greg LeMond is still a great athlete of his time and nothing he can say now
> will ever change that.
>
> I don't have to like his personality to recognize his talents.
Of course, I respect his three wins, and I respect the trailblazing
he did to pave the way for other Americans in the European peloton.
I'm just disappointed at his post-retirement whining about how he
could have won so many more "if only..." It's like those people who
die whining about how they could have written the most important
novel of the century, if only they hadn't had to work, raise
kids, [insert excuse here]. It should be good enough that Lemond
won one, two, three Tours. It should be good enough that he was
the first American to win, and it should be good enough that he
was the first American to wear the yellow jersey. But for some reason,
those things aren't enough for him. He's bad-mouthed Armstrong, and
he's bad-mouthed Landis, and it wasn't necessary for his legacy to
do either.
~bob s.
|
| |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 12:50:53
From: bob sullivan
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
Jason Spaceman wrote:
> From the article:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
> pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
> triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
> child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Read it at
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/article2010066.ece
Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tour.
At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
~bob s.
|
| | |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 18:55:24
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
In article <CdGdnYVDIYqxsBTbnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@comcast.com >,
bob sullivan <bsullivn@comcast.net > wrote:
> Jason Spaceman wrote:
> > From the article:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
> > pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
> > triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
> > child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Read it at
> > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/article2010
> > 066.ece
>
> Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tour.
> At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
>
> ~bob s.
At the risk of engaging in the shallowest sort of pop-psychoanalysis, a
lot of incredibly driven, very successful people have a hard time
enjoying their success. There's a lot of reasons for this
(psychologically, we tend to overestimate both the amount of joy we
would feel at a good outcome, and the amount of sorrow we would feel at
a bad turn), but one aspect for the sort of Type-As who win big bike
races is that even more than they love to win, they really, really hate
to lose.
I can totally believe that for LeMond, winning the Tour was not the
defining achievement we all assume it would be. It's a bit like
lottery-winners: a year later, they're basically about as happy as they
were before the win, and oftentimes not really that different
financially, either.
LeMond put his whole life towards winning the Tour, but think about it:
he basically finishes his professional peak at age 30, and is "retired"
at age 32 or 33.
There's a lot of fatty masters here, so you understand what I'm about to
say: I don't even know what I want to do when I grow up, and I'm past
30. What would it be like to be defined by your achievements at age 25?
How weird would it be to be in your forties, and have everyone you know
want to hear about that summer job you had in your 20s?
And that's not even counting the sexual abuse revelations, which seem to
have been a defining experience for this poor kid. And no wonder.
But it's all in how you look at it. Greg, either by nature or by
upbringing, might not be a naturally optimistic person (it probably
improves one's racing: if you fear that something might go wrong, the
only way to work against that is to train more, train better, prepare
more, plan better; it's like an OCD fever-dream). The "virtual tour"
tale points to a guy more haunted by his misfortune and failures than
reveling in his success.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 03 Jul 2007 21:46:47
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
<snip >
> But it's all in how you look at it. Greg, either by nature or by
> upbringing, might not be a naturally optimistic person (it probably
> improves one's racing: if you fear that something might go wrong, the
> only way to work against that is to train more, train better, prepare
> more, plan better; it's like an OCD fever-dream).
This is why I believe the current concern over our children's
self-esteem to be poorly thought through. Let them grow up to be
neurotic, obsessively driven (but successful!) drones like the rest of us.
|
| | | | |
Date: 05 Jul 2007 01:30:15
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
In article <ycCdnTEpvJ-iuxbbnZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d@comcast.com >,
Fred Fredburger <FredFredburger@WhereAreTheNachos.huh > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> <snip>
> > But it's all in how you look at it. Greg, either by nature or by
> > upbringing, might not be a naturally optimistic person (it probably
> > improves one's racing: if you fear that something might go wrong, the
> > only way to work against that is to train more, train better, prepare
> > more, plan better; it's like an OCD fever-dream).
>
> This is why I believe the current concern over our children's
> self-esteem to be poorly thought through. Let them grow up to be
> neurotic, obsessively driven (but successful!) drones like the rest of us.
Heh. It's worse than that: I believe the current wisdom bubbling out of
educational studies is that self-esteem has no (or possibly even an
inverse) correlation with academic success.
It turns out bullies have really good self-esteem: they beat up kids
because the bullies think they're better than the wimps.
Here's to fear and self-loathing!
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | |
Date: 05 Jul 2007 09:37:12
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 01:30:15 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
>In article <ycCdnTEpvJ-iuxbbnZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Fred Fredburger <FredFredburger@WhereAreTheNachos.huh> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> <snip>
>> > But it's all in how you look at it. Greg, either by nature or by
>> > upbringing, might not be a naturally optimistic person (it probably
>> > improves one's racing: if you fear that something might go wrong, the
>> > only way to work against that is to train more, train better, prepare
>> > more, plan better; it's like an OCD fever-dream).
>>
>> This is why I believe the current concern over our children's
>> self-esteem to be poorly thought through. Let them grow up to be
>> neurotic, obsessively driven (but successful!) drones like the rest of us.
>
>Heh. It's worse than that: I believe the current wisdom bubbling out of
>educational studies is that self-esteem has no (or possibly even an
>inverse) correlation with academic success.
>
>It turns out bullies have really good self-esteem: they beat up kids
>because the bullies think they're better than the wimps.
>
>Here's to fear and self-loathing!
Seems they found that it makes a difference what it is ones self esteem is based
upon. Children who are praised as successful and bright and talented become risk
averse and afraid to attempt things that may not be successful or which might
not prove them clever. Kids praised for their work and determination and having
pushed through to success, not surprisingly, become confident that they can
succeed and will put in the dog work to do so.
Yeah, they needed a study for that.
This group has already discussed the high self esteem of those too stupid to
recognize just how little they know, so we won't need to address
that one.
Ron
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 23:56:43
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Lemond interview: Cycle of abuse
|
In article
<rcousine-A20B31.11552302072007@news.telus.net >,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <CdGdnYVDIYqxsBTbnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> bob sullivan <bsullivn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Jason Spaceman wrote:
> > > From the article:
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -
> > > The American won the Tour de France three times, twice with shotgun
> > > pellets lodged in his heart after a shooting accident. But his
> > > triumphs felt hollow as he struggled with the secret of his abuse as a
> > > child The Big Interview: Greg LeMond
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Read it at
> > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/article2010
> > > 066.ece
> >
> > Yes, I'm sure he didn't enjoy being the first American to win the Tour.
> > At all. That totally explains the 'virtual victories'.
> >
> > ~bob s.
>
> At the risk of engaging in the shallowest sort of pop-psychoanalysis, a
> lot of incredibly driven, very successful people have a hard time
> enjoying their success. There's a lot of reasons for this
> (psychologically, we tend to overestimate both the amount of joy we
> would feel at a good outcome, and the amount of sorrow we would feel at
> a bad turn), but one aspect for the sort of Type-As who win big bike
> races is that even more than they love to win, they really, really hate
> to lose.
>
> I can totally believe that for LeMond, winning the Tour was not the
> defining achievement we all assume it would be. It's a bit like
> lottery-winners: a year later, they're basically about as happy as they
> were before the win, and oftentimes not really that different
> financially, either.
>
> LeMond put his whole life towards winning the Tour, but think about it:
> he basically finishes his professional peak at age 30, and is "retired"
> at age 32 or 33.
>
> There's a lot of fatty masters here, so you understand what I'm about to
> say: I don't even know what I want to do when I grow up, and I'm past
> 30. What would it be like to be defined by your achievements at age 25?
> How weird would it be to be in your forties, and have everyone you know
> want to hear about that summer job you had in your 20s?
>
> And that's not even counting the sexual abuse revelations, which seem to
> have been a defining experience for this poor kid. And no wonder.
>
> But it's all in how you look at it. Greg, either by nature or by
> upbringing, might not be a naturally optimistic person (it probably
> improves one's racing: if you fear that something might go wrong, the
> only way to work against that is to train more, train better, prepare
> more, plan better; it's like an OCD fever-dream). The "virtual tour"
> tale points to a guy more haunted by his misfortune and failures than
> reveling in his success.
I am not here to understand him.
I am here to accuse him.
Greg, get over it.
--
Michael Press
|
|
