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Main
Date: 26 May 2007 13:30:36
From: Bob De Jonge
Subject: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean
|
Greg has been getting raked by many here, but look at how he 'collapsed' in
his final few TDF's, and how the other 'machines' kept that 110% effort day
after day after day. I think what we all saw was normal - a human needing
a day here & there to recover from huge efforts. I was hoping last year's
TDF was clean, given the way various riders had bad days, just like in the
old days. I'm still hoping Floyd was/is clean, but doesn't look good.
I think Chris Boardman is another example of a clean rider. Look at him -
not at all heavy, capable of huge power outputs, but not able to do well in
the TDF. Why? Not able to recover quickly enough. If he would have taken
chemicals, they would have speeded that recovery as they did with the other
riders we've seen lately. But, after the prolific prologue performances we
all saw, he tended to fade as the stages piled up.
In regards to Big Mig Indurain - he was certainly a walking chemical
experiment, general consensus out there.
With regards to Lance, I keep trying to believe the, "What am I on? I'm on
my bike 6 hours a day working my ass off. What are you on?" -- hard work
ethic. It could be true, I still believe it is, as his PR certainly painted
that hard work picture. Lance seemed to work harder than anyone out there.
He was the hard work type, where LeMond was pure talent, enjoying life as
much as anyone. But, it is certainly easy to believe he had to take the
chemicals to remain competitive as well....
Anyone remember those Dutch cyclists who started having heart attacks in the
'80s? The early experiments with EPO........
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Date: 29 May 2007 02:49:44
From: Jeff Jones
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 29, 9:41 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> On 27 May 2007 04:17:06 -0700, Jeff Jones wrote:
>
> > McEwen's an Aussie. They have a tendency to embrace the local culture,
> > wherever they go. You can read that however you want.
>
> You embrace anything lately? Bathing?
>
I embraced the asphalt on Saturday. Not the ideal way to begin a long
weekend.
Jeff
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Date: 27 May 2007 04:17:06
From: Jeff Jones
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 7:41 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1180203929.428341.6530@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.co=
m,
> VeloMel...@gmail.com <VeloMel...@gmail.com> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et puis a d=
=E9clar=E9 :
>
> > Is the "hanging out" with
> > your own compatriots rather than embracing the local culture really
> > something that applies only to the Americans?
>
> No. The UK also exports itself that way. Want to find a Brit abroad ?
> Look for the Guiness bar, locally. Local culture also involves picking up
> the language(s), and few Americans do that, with notable exceptions being
> Julich and Lemond. Giving full credit, McEwen seems to get along well in
> Italian (and they like him), less well but OK in French.
McEwen's an Aussie. They have a tendency to embrace the local culture,
wherever they go. You can read that however you want.
Jeff
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Date: 29 May 2007 10:41:02
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On 27 May 2007 04:17:06 -0700, Jeff Jones wrote:
> McEwen's an Aussie. They have a tendency to embrace the local culture,
> wherever they go. You can read that however you want.
You embrace anything lately? Bathing?
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 27 May 2007 10:34:33
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On 27 May 2007 04:17:06 -0700, Jeff Jones <drjones99@gmail.com > wrote:
>On May 26, 7:41 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>> Dans le message denews:1180203929.428341.6530@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
>> VeloMel...@gmail.com <VeloMel...@gmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>>
>> > Is the "hanging out" with
>> > your own compatriots rather than embracing the local culture really
>> > something that applies only to the Americans?
>>
>> No. The UK also exports itself that way. Want to find a Brit abroad ?
>> Look for the Guiness bar, locally. Local culture also involves picking up
>> the language(s), and few Americans do that, with notable exceptions being
>> Julich and Lemond. Giving full credit, McEwen seems to get along well in
>> Italian (and they like him), less well but OK in French.
>
>McEwen's an Aussie. They have a tendency to embrace the local culture,
>wherever they go. You can read that however you want.
http://www.coolabah.com/sweden/youknow.html
An Aussie gone native.
Ron
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Date: 26 May 2007 22:17:42
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
In article <C27DAEA6.6BD0%judibob@mac.com >, Bob De Jonge <judibob@mac.com> wrote:
> I think Chris Boardman is another example of a clean rider. Look at him -
> not at all heavy, capable of huge power outputs, but not able to do well in
> the TDF. Why? Not able to recover quickly enough. If he would have taken
> chemicals, they would have speeded that recovery as they did with the other
> riders we've seen lately. But, after the prolific prologue performances we
> all saw, he tended to fade as the stages piled up.
Well, I don't mean to imply that I think he was doping but I think his real
problem with doing well in the Tour had a lot more to do with him never being
comfortable in the peloton. He always seemed nervous in the bunch and stayed
somewhere in the middle, where (oddly enough) it's frequently more dangerous. He did
well in individual events (prologues and ITTs), of course, but he did crash in and
out of a lot of Tours. I think that being nervous and stressed in the peloton does
take a lot of energy away from a rider.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 26 May 2007 20:03:27
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 2:45 pm, "benjo maso" <benjo.m...@chello.nl > wrote:
> "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote in message
> news:46587f6f$0$31787$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
>
> Giving full credit, McEwen seems to get along well in
>
> > Italian (and they like him), less well but OK in French.
>
> And he is fluent in Dutch. In Dutch!!
>
> Benjo
Impossible. Even the Dutch can't speak Dutch
without an accent.
Ben
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Date: 26 May 2007 11:55:13
From:
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 2:41 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote (among many other
interesting things):
>We'll see if sponsor money and Pro Tour rules sustain such an attitude. But
>one race doesn't make for a year of racing. At least not here.
Nor here. By no means am I endorsing event specializing. I'd much
rather see he big boys duking it out all year. I just don't think it
will happen given how much inertia there is for the Tour. But, I have
an undeniable knack for being wrong a whole lot more than I am
right ;-)
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Date: 26 May 2007 18:55:00
From: Caroline
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
"Bob De Jonge" <judibob@mac.com > wrote in message
news:C27DAEA6.6BD0%judibob@mac.com...
>
> With regards to Lance, I keep trying to believe the, "What am I on? I'm
> on
> my bike 6 hours a day working my ass off. What are you on?" -- hard work
> ethic. It could be true, I still believe it is, as his PR certainly
> painted
> that hard work picture. Lance seemed to work harder than anyone out
> there.
> He was the hard work type, where LeMond was pure talent, enjoying life as
> much as anyone. But, it is certainly easy to believe he had to take the
> chemicals to remain competitive as well....
>
I think Armstrong is a special case. When he was on cheotherapy, EPOs would
have been an extremely critical part of his recovery from the physical
punishment that chemtherapy wreaks on the whole body. I don't know how long
they are needed after the chemotherapy is concluded. Certainly that is a
physician's call, and probably varies from individual to individual, as
monitored through blood studies. So IMO Armstrong is a special case.
Certainly there has never been another athlete in any sport who has lived
under the microscope that he has. Nor do I know of any other cyclist who
has had the financial backing for developing the very latest and best
possible custom bikes and equipment that he trialed in wind tunnels and
such.
Maybe there oughta be a law, once any cyclist is diagnosed with cancer, he
is banned from the sport for life, because if he has chemotherapy, he WILL
have EPOs. But that also raises the question of what the EPOs do for that
cyclist. Does it bring his red cell count back "within normal limits?" If
that's all it does, then he has used EPOs and gained nothing in the
performance arena.
Caroline
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Date: 26 May 2007 11:25:29
From:
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 1:35 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:1180194327.230259.211380@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.=
com,
> VeloMel...@gmail.com <VeloMel...@gmail.com> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et puis a d=
=E9clar=E9 :
>
> > I would think that sponsors and teams would give their eye
> > teeth for a rider capable of winning multiple TdFs even if that rider
> > did virtually nothing for the rest of the season.
>
> A uniquely American perspective, although with the hegemony of your
> marketing strategies, taking root elsewhere. Until recently.
I'm no marketer...and boy have got the bank account to prove it :)
Ullrich wasn't American and he basically focused on the Tour and his
teams bent over backwards to accommodate him what with putting up with
his perpetual weight gains, etc. He was essentially taking this tact
over 10 years ago. So you've got to at least include the Germans in
the marketing hegemony. Nonetheless, I don't think you'll ever again
see someone with multiple TdF wins in him ever race seriously into the
Fall season (save for the times when the Olympics are part of that
calendar) nor be in serious contention during the Spring Classics.
"That race doesn't suit me" is not a uniquely American phrase.
>
> Remember, for those who don't work in July, it's vacation time, and the
> French don't especially build their plans around seeing some guys pass by
> for 30 seconds. Those who work don't get to see the race, save on weeken=
ds.
> Sponsors are keenly aware of that, especially those sponsors who do not
> target primarily American spectators.
Point taken.
>
> > And, FWIW, Lemond
> > did race the spring classics in the pre-turkey hunting accident days
> > and got some decent results.
>
> It is often said that Lemond did a good job integrating into a European
> sport. As for other Americans, they like to hang out together, even acro=
ss
> teams, rather than be part of a local culture.
Lemond had no choice but to adapt given the dearth of Americans in the
Euro peleton during the bulk of his career. Is the "hanging out" with
your own compatriots rather than embracing the local culture really
something that applies only to the Americans? In fact, I'm not so
sure that such a generalization can be made about any of the different
nationalities. They all seem to get along pretty well these days.
For better or worse, overall the world seems to have gotten a lot
smaller and more globalized.
>
> --
> Bonne route !
>
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
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Date: 26 May 2007 20:41:46
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
Dans le message de news:1180203929.428341.6530@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
VeloMellow@gmail.com <VeloMellow@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On May 26, 1:35 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>> Dans le message
>> denews:1180194327.230259.211380@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
>> VeloMel...@gmail.com <VeloMel...@gmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis a
>> déclaré :
>>
>>> I would think that sponsors and teams would give their eye
>>> teeth for a rider capable of winning multiple TdFs even if that
>>> rider did virtually nothing for the rest of the season.
>>
>> A uniquely American perspective, although with the hegemony of your
>> marketing strategies, taking root elsewhere. Until recently.
>
> I'm no marketer...and boy have got the bank account to prove it :)
>
> Ullrich wasn't American and he basically focused on the Tour and his
> teams bent over backwards to accommodate him what with putting up with
> his perpetual weight gains, etc. He was essentially taking this tact
> over 10 years ago. So you've got to at least include the Germans in
> the marketing hegemony.
Not really. They pay attention to local, regional, national and nearby
races even more. Germans, not German multinational companies, that is.
German racers, too.
> Nonetheless, I don't think you'll ever again
> see someone with multiple TdF wins in him ever race seriously into the
> Fall season (save for the times when the Olympics are part of that
> calendar) nor be in serious contention during the Spring Classics.
> "That race doesn't suit me" is not a uniquely American phrase.
We'll see if sponsor money and Pro Tour rules sustain such an attitude. But
one race doesn't make for a year of racing. At least not here.
>>
>>
>>> And, FWIW, Lemond
>>> did race the spring classics in the pre-turkey hunting accident days
>>> and got some decent results.
>>
>> It is often said that Lemond did a good job integrating into a
>> European sport. As for other Americans, they like to hang out
>> together, even across teams, rather than be part of a local culture.
>
> Lemond had no choice but to adapt given the dearth of Americans in the
> Euro peleton during the bulk of his career.
I think it was a positive choice, not one which was disliked or only
inevitable.
> Is the "hanging out" with
> your own compatriots rather than embracing the local culture really
> something that applies only to the Americans?
No. The UK also exports itself that way. Want to find a Brit abroad ?
Look for the Guiness bar, locally. Local culture also involves picking up
the language(s), and few Americans do that, with notable exceptions being
Julich and Lemond. Giving full credit, McEwen seems to get along well in
Italian (and they like him), less well but OK in French.
> In fact, I'm not so
> sure that such a generalization can be made about any of the different
> nationalities. They all seem to get along pretty well these days.
> For better or worse, overall the world seems to have gotten a lot
> smaller and more globalized.
In your dreams! Fox happy-news addict? :-) At latest, I think over 140
declared wars are in progress. And my shoes come off for every
international flight check-in.
--
--
Sandy
--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]
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Date: 26 May 2007 23:45:38
From: benjo maso
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
"Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr > wrote in message
news:46587f6f$0$31787$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
(snip)
Giving full credit, McEwen seems to get along well in
> Italian (and they like him), less well but OK in French.
And he is fluent in Dutch. In Dutch!!
Benjo
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Date: 27 May 2007 11:39:04
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean
|
benjo maso wrote:
> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
> news:46587f6f$0$31787$426a74cc@news.free.fr...
>
> (snip)
>
> Giving full credit, McEwen seems to get along well in
>> Italian (and they like him), less well but OK in French.
>
> And he is fluent in Dutch. In Dutch!!
Gott verdomme!! :-))
I think Roger Hammond is too isn't he?
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Date: 26 May 2007 11:15:32
From: CowPunk
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
Oh please,
they're professional athletes. They all dope, cheat and do whatever
it takes to win.
Lemond is no different. I still remember watching him chugging coca-
cola mid-race, trying to get a caffeine boost.
I would wager Lemond's favorite drugs were stanazol, dianabol,
ephedrine, and caffeine.
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| |
Date: 26 May 2007 10:52:25
From:
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 1:00 pm, Dan Gregory
<dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk > wrote:
> VeloMel...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> It can probably> be argued that Lemond started the whole "Tour Specialist" trend since
> > he was so influential in increasing rider's pay.
>
> Didn't Phil Anderson start it with his "coca-colanisation" of the Tour
> in 1981? A big influence on LeMond?
Don't know for sure but I'd guess it have had some influence
(especially when Phil took yellow in that Tour). I think for Lemond
it was more a matter of working his butt off in a really hard sport
and, being an American athlete, seeing the marketing forces in play
and wanting to get his fair share. I just think he really understood
the marketing and the value a Tour champion could command. Phil
Anderson probably had a similar "epiphany". Wonder what a beast like
Eddy Merckx would earn in today's marketplace? We sort of have a
proxy for the TdF part of the equation in Armstrong but imagine a
rider today who could dominate everything the way Eddy did in the
'70's. And, yes, I know...it ain't really gonna happen. Just fun to
speculate...
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| |
Date: 26 May 2007 09:35:46
From:
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 3:14 pm, Tim <T...@anywhere.com > wrote:
> On 26 May 2007 08:45:27 -0700, VeloMel...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On May 26, 1:40 pm, Tim <T...@anywhere.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:30:36 GMT, Bob De Jonge <judi...@mac.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Greg has been getting raked by many here, but look at how he 'collapsed' in
> >> >his final few TDF's, and how the other 'machines' kept that 110% effort day
> >> >after day after day. I think what we all saw was normal - a human needing
> >> >a day here & there to recover from huge efforts. I was hoping last year's
> >> >TDF was clean, given the way various riders had bad days, just like in the
> >> >old days. I'm still hoping Floyd was/is clean, but doesn't look good.
>
> >> >I think Chris Boardman is another example of a clean rider. Look at him -
> >> >not at all heavy, capable of huge power outputs, but not able to do well in
> >> >the TDF. Why? Not able to recover quickly enough. If he would have taken
> >> >chemicals, they would have speeded that recovery as they did with the other
> >> >riders we've seen lately. But, after the prolific prologue performances we
> >> >all saw, he tended to fade as the stages piled up.
>
> >> >In regards to Big Mig Indurain - he was certainly a walking chemical
> >> >experiment, general consensus out there.
>
> >> >With regards to Lance, I keep trying to believe the, "What am I on? I'm on
> >> >my bike 6 hours a day working my ass off. What are you on?" -- hard work
> >> >ethic. It could be true, I still believe it is, as his PR certainly painted
> >> >that hard work picture. Lance seemed to work harder than anyone out there.
> >> >He was the hard work type, where LeMond was pure talent, enjoying life as
> >> >much as anyone. But, it is certainly easy to believe he had to take the
> >> >chemicals to remain competitive as well....
>
> >> >Anyone remember those Dutch cyclists who started having heart attacks in the
> >> >'80s? The early experiments with EPO........
>
> >> Most sponsors, teams , spectators want a rider who can do more than 2
> >> well spaced out races a year. He started the tour mildly obese and
> >> did nothing for the 1st week or more and raced 2 or 3 days in the
> >> mountains. He is also a douche and retarded
>
> >Really? I would think that sponsors and teams would give their eye
> >teeth for a rider capable of winning multiple TdFs even if that rider
> >did virtually nothing for the rest of the season.
>
> However if that is the requirement for all riders to win that means a
> lot of riders getting paid for accomplishing absolutely nothing for
> the entire year.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, there can only be one winner and in the Grand Tours there are
probably only 5 or 6 racers with a realistic shot at winning the GC.
The other guys aren't doing "nothing"-- they're helping the GC guy or
designated sprinter win the race or a stage.
Teams and sponsors, especially these days, will cater to a guy who can
win the Tour and then doesn'r race again for the rest of the year.
This was Armstrong's model and it was also Ullrich's. It can probably
be argued that Lemond started the whole "Tour Specialist" trend since
he was so influential in increasing rider's pay.
|
| | |
Date: 26 May 2007 18:00:51
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean
|
VeloMellow@gmail.com wrote:
It can probably
> be argued that Lemond started the whole "Tour Specialist" trend since
> he was so influential in increasing rider's pay.
>
Didn't Phil Anderson start it with his "coca-colanisation" of the Tour
in 1981? A big influence on LeMond?
|
| |
Date: 26 May 2007 08:45:27
From:
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On May 26, 1:40 pm, Tim <T...@anywhere.com > wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:30:36 GMT, Bob De Jonge <judi...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Greg has been getting raked by many here, but look at how he 'collapsed' in
> >his final few TDF's, and how the other 'machines' kept that 110% effort day
> >after day after day. I think what we all saw was normal - a human needing
> >a day here & there to recover from huge efforts. I was hoping last year's
> >TDF was clean, given the way various riders had bad days, just like in the
> >old days. I'm still hoping Floyd was/is clean, but doesn't look good.
>
> >I think Chris Boardman is another example of a clean rider. Look at him -
> >not at all heavy, capable of huge power outputs, but not able to do well in
> >the TDF. Why? Not able to recover quickly enough. If he would have taken
> >chemicals, they would have speeded that recovery as they did with the other
> >riders we've seen lately. But, after the prolific prologue performances we
> >all saw, he tended to fade as the stages piled up.
>
> >In regards to Big Mig Indurain - he was certainly a walking chemical
> >experiment, general consensus out there.
>
> >With regards to Lance, I keep trying to believe the, "What am I on? I'm on
> >my bike 6 hours a day working my ass off. What are you on?" -- hard work
> >ethic. It could be true, I still believe it is, as his PR certainly painted
> >that hard work picture. Lance seemed to work harder than anyone out there.
> >He was the hard work type, where LeMond was pure talent, enjoying life as
> >much as anyone. But, it is certainly easy to believe he had to take the
> >chemicals to remain competitive as well....
>
> >Anyone remember those Dutch cyclists who started having heart attacks in the
> >'80s? The early experiments with EPO........
>
> Most sponsors, teams , spectators want a rider who can do more than 2
> well spaced out races a year. He started the tour mildly obese and
> did nothing for the 1st week or more and raced 2 or 3 days in the
> mountains. He is also a douche and retarded
Really? I would think that sponsors and teams would give their eye
teeth for a rider capable of winning multiple TdFs even if that rider
did virtually nothing for the rest of the season. And, FWIW, Lemond
did race the spring classics in the pre-turkey hunting accident days
and got some decent results. I do think he would have won the 1987
and 1988 editions of the TdF had he not been pelted with birdshot. It
is unfortunate though that he has taken the opportunity more than a
few times to indulge publically in this "virtual wins" fantasy. He
is, however, neither a "douche" nor is he "retarded"...in whatever
context you are attributing these juvenile characterizations.
|
| | |
Date: 26 May 2007 19:35:50
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
Dans le message de
news:1180194327.230259.211380@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
VeloMellow@gmail.com <VeloMellow@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> I would think that sponsors and teams would give their eye
> teeth for a rider capable of winning multiple TdFs even if that rider
> did virtually nothing for the rest of the season.
A uniquely American perspective, although with the hegemony of your
marketing strategies, taking root elsewhere. Until recently.
Remember, for those who don't work in July, it's vacation time, and the
French don't especially build their plans around seeing some guys pass by
for 30 seconds. Those who work don't get to see the race, save on weekends.
Sponsors are keenly aware of that, especially those sponsors who do not
target primarily American spectators.
> And, FWIW, Lemond
> did race the spring classics in the pre-turkey hunting accident days
> and got some decent results.
It is often said that Lemond did a good job integrating into a European
sport. As for other Americans, they like to hang out together, even across
teams, rather than be part of a local culture.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
|
| | |
Date: 26 May 2007 14:14:32
From: Tim
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On 26 May 2007 08:45:27 -0700, VeloMellow@gmail.com wrote:
>On May 26, 1:40 pm, Tim <T...@anywhere.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:30:36 GMT, Bob De Jonge <judi...@mac.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Greg has been getting raked by many here, but look at how he 'collapsed' in
>> >his final few TDF's, and how the other 'machines' kept that 110% effort day
>> >after day after day. I think what we all saw was normal - a human needing
>> >a day here & there to recover from huge efforts. I was hoping last year's
>> >TDF was clean, given the way various riders had bad days, just like in the
>> >old days. I'm still hoping Floyd was/is clean, but doesn't look good.
>>
>> >I think Chris Boardman is another example of a clean rider. Look at him -
>> >not at all heavy, capable of huge power outputs, but not able to do well in
>> >the TDF. Why? Not able to recover quickly enough. If he would have taken
>> >chemicals, they would have speeded that recovery as they did with the other
>> >riders we've seen lately. But, after the prolific prologue performances we
>> >all saw, he tended to fade as the stages piled up.
>>
>> >In regards to Big Mig Indurain - he was certainly a walking chemical
>> >experiment, general consensus out there.
>>
>> >With regards to Lance, I keep trying to believe the, "What am I on? I'm on
>> >my bike 6 hours a day working my ass off. What are you on?" -- hard work
>> >ethic. It could be true, I still believe it is, as his PR certainly painted
>> >that hard work picture. Lance seemed to work harder than anyone out there.
>> >He was the hard work type, where LeMond was pure talent, enjoying life as
>> >much as anyone. But, it is certainly easy to believe he had to take the
>> >chemicals to remain competitive as well....
>>
>> >Anyone remember those Dutch cyclists who started having heart attacks in the
>> >'80s? The early experiments with EPO........
>>
>> Most sponsors, teams , spectators want a rider who can do more than 2
>> well spaced out races a year. He started the tour mildly obese and
>> did nothing for the 1st week or more and raced 2 or 3 days in the
>> mountains. He is also a douche and retarded
>
>Really? I would think that sponsors and teams would give their eye
>teeth for a rider capable of winning multiple TdFs even if that rider
>did virtually nothing for the rest of the season.
However if that is the requirement for all riders to win that means a
lot of riders getting paid for accomplishing absolutely nothing for
the entire year.
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Date: 26 May 2007 10:33:51
From: Brian Phillips
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
"Tim" <Tim@anywhere.com > wrote in message
news:2h1h53diu1g6tqtkofp4e75gj8i42tfaoe@4ax.com...
> On 26 May 2007 08:45:27 -0700, VeloMellow@gmail.com wrote:
> However if that is the requirement for all riders to win that means a
> lot of riders getting paid for accomplishing absolutely nothing for
> the entire year.
Winning a couple of world championships is "absolutely nothing"?
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| |
Date: 26 May 2007 12:40:56
From: Tim
Subject: Re: Like him or not, I still believe LeMond is the most recent clean TDF champ
|
On Sat, 26 May 2007 13:30:36 GMT, Bob De Jonge <judibob@mac.com >
wrote:
>Greg has been getting raked by many here, but look at how he 'collapsed' in
>his final few TDF's, and how the other 'machines' kept that 110% effort day
>after day after day. I think what we all saw was normal - a human needing
>a day here & there to recover from huge efforts. I was hoping last year's
>TDF was clean, given the way various riders had bad days, just like in the
>old days. I'm still hoping Floyd was/is clean, but doesn't look good.
>
>I think Chris Boardman is another example of a clean rider. Look at him -
>not at all heavy, capable of huge power outputs, but not able to do well in
>the TDF. Why? Not able to recover quickly enough. If he would have taken
>chemicals, they would have speeded that recovery as they did with the other
>riders we've seen lately. But, after the prolific prologue performances we
>all saw, he tended to fade as the stages piled up.
>
>In regards to Big Mig Indurain - he was certainly a walking chemical
>experiment, general consensus out there.
>
>With regards to Lance, I keep trying to believe the, "What am I on? I'm on
>my bike 6 hours a day working my ass off. What are you on?" -- hard work
>ethic. It could be true, I still believe it is, as his PR certainly painted
>that hard work picture. Lance seemed to work harder than anyone out there.
>He was the hard work type, where LeMond was pure talent, enjoying life as
>much as anyone. But, it is certainly easy to believe he had to take the
>chemicals to remain competitive as well....
>
>Anyone remember those Dutch cyclists who started having heart attacks in the
>'80s? The early experiments with EPO........
Most sponsors, teams , spectators want a rider who can do more than 2
well spaced out races a year. He started the tour mildly obese and
did nothing for the 1st week or more and raced 2 or 3 days in the
mountains. He is also a douche and retarded.
|
|
