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Date: 26 Jul 2007 05:46:33
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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I predicted this would happen.
Predictor-Lotto to sue Vino and Astana
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news3
Will this clean up the sport ? money is a very powerful motivator.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:06:21
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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In article <1185428793.515894.50790@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
"amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote:
> I predicted this would happen.
>
> Predictor-Lotto to sue Vino and Astana
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news3
>
> Will this clean up the sport ?
No.
This seems pretty pitiful to me.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 09:12:33
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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Dans le message de
news:YOURhoward-7DDAC9.23062125072007@comcast.dca.giganews.com,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> In article <1185428793.515894.50790@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I predicted this would happen.
>>
>> Predictor-Lotto to sue Vino and Astana
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news3
>>
>> Will this clean up the sport ?
>
> No.
>
> This seems pretty pitiful to me.
I'm not quite in agreement. What has happened is the exposure of the gulf
between "sport" and commercial entertainment. The big end of the pyramid is
populated by the vast majority of cyclists, and the top by the monopolies
(UCI, ASO, IOC). Power and money are concentrated at the top, and the blind
idiocy of all national federations has been to push riders to go there.
"Grass roots" programs are not designed to encourage sport or sportsmanship,
but to identify contenders, and to move them along. Those who happily
contest their weekly club races, who challenge you to the next stop sign -
those are guys I am happy to ride with, to help out with a spare tube, to
share some beer with.
There's nothing wrong with top-level competition, so long as it remains a
sport, and there is reason to admire the people who compete at that level.
But when money comes into the equation, lots of money, lots of power,
"sport" disappears.
Just looking at the published basis for the lawsuit shows what is really
important - it's the capacity to gain a corporate return on investment. I
invest, also, in cycling. I ride and I try to go faster. I have bought
bikes and stuff I thought could suit those goals. I don't train any more,
because it's been a while since I was young enough to impress.
When club riders look at their club jerseys, do they imagine that their
sponsors just love cycling so very much, that the support is just a
benevolent gift to the sport? My club, this past 2 years, has had its first
sponsors, small time businesses. I didn't buy a jersey. I don't think the
local Peugeot dealer really cares about me.
It's OK to admire the great riders. And it's not important whether they ate
bran flakes or injected insulin to the top. Great riders are there because
they have the genetics, the drive, and the need to win. Being the first or
the eleventh loser is not important when we engage in sport, but winning is
everything when it's a business. TV time for a jersey, for example. That's
a kind of winning. I think of the multitude of things I have done as a
lawyer to win, and some of it bothers me, still. That's why I am hanging it
up, right now, this summer. I don't plan to ride in the winter - I'll
cross-country ski - or I'll get fat and fill out that Mad Dog "Wide Load"
jersey my daughter gave me a while ago.
Bicycle sport is virtually absent as a subject of discussion in this forum.
I'll continue to read the comments of fellow riders, maybe comment. But so
long as Big Cycling's focus remains on money, I don't plan to take any of it
seriously. Not the excuses of Millar, a born-again angel, not the evasions
of yesterday's yellow jersey holder, not the feigned indignation of
Prudhomme, quasi-monopolist power grabber and Grand Inquisitor.
It's pitiful, to be sure, but it doesn't deserve the attention we seem to be
giving it.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:19:25
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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In article <46a84962$0$28326$426a74cc@news.free.fr >, "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr>
wrote:
> Dans le message de
> news:YOURhoward-7DDAC9.23062125072007@comcast.dca.giganews.com,
> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> > In article <1185428793.515894.50790@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > "amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I predicted this would happen.
> >>
> >> Predictor-Lotto to sue Vino and Astana
> > This seems pretty pitiful to me.
>
> I'm not quite in agreement. What has happened is the exposure of the gulf
> between "sport" and commercial entertainment. The big end of the pyramid is
> populated by the vast majority of cyclists, and the top by the monopolies
> (UCI, ASO, IOC). Power and money are concentrated at the top, and the blind
> idiocy of all national federations has been to push riders to go there.
> "Grass roots" programs are not designed to encourage sport or sportsmanship,
> but to identify contenders, and to move them along. Those who happily
> contest their weekly club races, who challenge you to the next stop sign -
> those are guys I am happy to ride with, to help out with a spare tube, to
> share some beer with.
>
> There's nothing wrong with top-level competition, so long as it remains a
> sport, and there is reason to admire the people who compete at that level.
> But when money comes into the equation, lots of money, lots of power,
> "sport" disappears.
>
> Just looking at the published basis for the lawsuit shows what is really
> important - it's the capacity to gain a corporate return on investment. I
> invest, also, in cycling. I ride and I try to go faster. I have bought
> bikes and stuff I thought could suit those goals. I don't train any more,
> because it's been a while since I was young enough to impress.
>
> When club riders look at their club jerseys, do they imagine that their
> sponsors just love cycling so very much, that the support is just a
> benevolent gift to the sport? My club, this past 2 years, has had its first
> sponsors, small time businesses. I didn't buy a jersey. I don't think the
> local Peugeot dealer really cares about me.
>
> It's OK to admire the great riders. And it's not important whether they ate
> bran flakes or injected insulin to the top. Great riders are there because
> they have the genetics, the drive, and the need to win. Being the first or
> the eleventh loser is not important when we engage in sport, but winning is
> everything when it's a business. TV time for a jersey, for example. That's
> a kind of winning. I think of the multitude of things I have done as a
> lawyer to win, and some of it bothers me, still. That's why I am hanging it
> up, right now, this summer. I don't plan to ride in the winter - I'll
> cross-country ski - or I'll get fat and fill out that Mad Dog "Wide Load"
> jersey my daughter gave me a while ago.
>
> Bicycle sport is virtually absent as a subject of discussion in this forum.
> I'll continue to read the comments of fellow riders, maybe comment. But so
> long as Big Cycling's focus remains on money, I don't plan to take any of it
> seriously. Not the excuses of Millar, a born-again angel, not the evasions
> of yesterday's yellow jersey holder, not the feigned indignation of
> Prudhomme, quasi-monopolist power grabber and Grand Inquisitor.
>
> It's pitiful, to be sure, but it doesn't deserve the attention we seem to be
> giving it.
Well put, Sandy. You know, I'm quite aware of the commercial entertainment aspects
of this sport and the influence it has on the sport. The threat of a suit over this
really brings it into a very sharp focus and that's the part I don't really care for.
I suppose you could say it's like seeing the sausage making process from the very
start to the finish - once you've seen that, you may not want to have so much sausage
in the future. Obviously, the sponsors aren't there for altruistic reasons (though I
believe there are some who are more enthusiastic about the *sport* than others), so
they certainly will expect a return on their investment. Plus, it seems like a step
onto a slippery slope.
Prudhomme is an annoying guy, isn't he?
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:54:37
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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Howard Kveck wrote:
> I suppose you could say it's like seeing the sausage making process from the very
> start to the finish - once you've seen that, you may not want to have so much sausage
> in the future.
Its more like seeing the andoulette making process.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 08:30:10
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > writes:
> In article <1185428793.515894.50790@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I predicted this would happen.
>>
>> Predictor-Lotto to sue Vino and Astana
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news3
>>
>> Will this clean up the sport ?
>
> No.
>
> This seems pretty pitiful to me.
>
What we need is Mr. Clean
http://azurservers.com/rbr/mrclean.jpg
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do
nothing.-Edmund Burke
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 07:47:23
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Lotto to sue Astana, Vino
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"Davey Crockett" <d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com > wrote in message
news:87lkd3vfrh.fsf@azurservers.com...
>>>
>>> Will this clean up the sport ?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> This seems pretty pitiful to me.
>>
> What we need is Mr. Clean
>
> http://azurservers.com/rbr/mrclean.jpg
>
Great. Another muscle-y, bald headed guy.
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