McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

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Date: 06 Jan 2007 15:31:47
From: Bill C
Subject: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

We've seen this beforer and it was supposed to be a bad thing.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=3Dnews/2007/jan07/jan06news

The details could be about which races the team may or may not get
invited to if they were to sign the 33 year-old German. Some
organizers, like the Deutschland Tour, have made it clear that they
don't want anything to do with teams that sign riders implicated in
Operaci=F3n Puerto or who are involved with Eufemiano Fuentes.

"I want to talk to the organizers ..." confirmed Masciarelli. "And,
finally, we have to wait for the decision from the Swiss Federation. A
few weeks ago the president [of the Swiss federation] announced that
the case is heading towards being shelved, but at the moment there is
not any kind of official decision.

I never thought cyclists supported McCarthy, but I guess we need a
"Cycling supports McCarthy" set of products.
I'll pass on them though.
Magilla and his friends can take over Joseph's role.
Bill C

Date: 08 Jan 2007 20:56:42
From: dbrower
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 8 Jan 2007 18:32:09 -0800, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com"
> <amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >officially the ex-liberty riders, basso and ullrich were excluded by
> >mutual agreement among the protour teams (though it's likely the ASO
> >played some part in that).
> >
> >the fact that the teams went along with this seems to suggest they were
> >convinced about the guilt of their riders at the time.
>
> >why would they
> >agree on such a lousy deal otherwise ?
>
> Pressure from sponsors who want a squeaky clean image.

There was also quite likely a great deal of time pressure and
brinksmanship.

Imagine being, say, Bjarne Riis. You walk into a room and there are
guys from ASO and the UCI there. One drops 500+ pages of printouts on
the table with thud. The other guy says, "This implicates Basso.
Are you going to try to race him, yes or no? Give us an answer. Now."

What are you going to do?

It would have taken a brave, brave man to stand up to that and try to
line him up.

-dB

Date: 08 Jan 2007 18:32:09
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

MagillaGorilla wrote:

> Given that the ASO, UCI, and teams caused the debacle you claimed scares
> them more than the doping problem itself, it is a fact you are wrong.
> The doping problem scares them more. Otherwise, they wouldn't have done
> what they did.

the ASO's (recent) stance is to try to exclude riders that have been
implicated in doping cases. with the puerto suspects they were only
able to exclude the valenciana riders, since they were a wild card
pick. they cannot exclude protour teams at their discretion.

officially the ex-liberty riders, basso and ullrich were excluded by
mutual agreement among the protour teams (though it's likely the ASO
played some part in that).

the fact that the teams went along with this seems to suggest they were
convinced about the guilt of their riders at the time. why would they
agree on such a lousy deal otherwise ?

Date: 08 Jan 2007 22:52:10
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

On 8 Jan 2007 18:32:09 -0800, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com"
<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote:

>
>MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>> Given that the ASO, UCI, and teams caused the debacle you claimed scares
>> them more than the doping problem itself, it is a fact you are wrong.
>> The doping problem scares them more. Otherwise, they wouldn't have done
>> what they did.
>
>the ASO's (recent) stance is to try to exclude riders that have been
>implicated in doping cases. with the puerto suspects they were only
>able to exclude the valenciana riders, since they were a wild card
>pick. they cannot exclude protour teams at their discretion.
>
>officially the ex-liberty riders, basso and ullrich were excluded by
>mutual agreement among the protour teams (though it's likely the ASO
>played some part in that).
>
>the fact that the teams went along with this seems to suggest they were
>convinced about the guilt of their riders at the time.

>why would they
>agree on such a lousy deal otherwise ?

Pressure from sponsors who want a squeaky clean image.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 08 Jan 2007 18:18:10
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

MagillaGorilla wrote:

> I agree the time element is a problem. These cases from Operacion
> Puerto should have been resolved in 1 year. But then again, it's only
> been 7 months.
>
> Therefore, I don't agree time is a problem at this point as it has not
> been that long.
>

dumbass,

as far as i can tell it's only non-riders at this point (mainly
fuentes, saiz) that are facing criminal charges in spain.

of the 30 or so implicated riders, the five liberty and all the
valenciana riders have been cleared by the spanish court, but there has
been no word on the majority of the others.

a few like basso and botero have been cleared by their federation and
have found teams for '07, but as far as i can tell they are, according
to the spanish courts, still "implicated" in puerto, but what does that
mean if they aren't charged with anything ?

none of them have admitted to doping or have tested positive, so it
seems likely that the federations will be obliged to allow them to race
in '07.

Date: 07 Jan 2007 21:09:37
From: dbrower
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

MagillaGorilla wrote:

> Organizers of invitational races have the right to not invite riders who
> they feel will tarnish their image. It's really nothing like McCarthy,
> which had no basis in fact. In Operacion Puerto, there is substantial
> factual basis.
>

See for instance, http://comptalk.fiu.edu/blacklist.htm

which explains how the Film and TV blacklists worked, though the
efforts of a grocer in Syracuse NY. It does n ot seem better if the
list is maintained by a federation or agency instead of an individual.

"McCarthyism" is not just about tail-gunner Joe's activities, is a
symbolic reference to all the anti-communist hysteria of the period.
Trying to limit it to Joe's activities alone is disingenous.

And yes, by the way, Alger Hiss *was* a commie spy, which doesn't shed
much credit on those who bent the truth to nail him without the real
evidence.

-dB

Date: 07 Jan 2007 14:13:42
From: DA74
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> > =================================
> > "Now, I'm not saying it's good enough that he got caught because there
> > are myriad ways of getting off the hook. But what I am saying is that
> > those motherfuckers who hold the puppet strings of the sport KNOW. And
> > I'm talking beyond any of this reasonable fucking doubt that the guy
> > did it, how he did it, who he did it with, how long he's done it etc.
> > etc."
> > ================================
> >
> >
> > Oh my, another BIG CONSPIRACY theorist. Somehow everybody knows, and yet
> > nobody can do anything about it. Hundreds of people involved, and not one
> > court that can find enough corroborating evidence to bring it to a
> > conclusion.
> >
> > I'll tell you what's really wrong here. Time. The time people take to drag
> > this all out. The time in which it appears the Spanish or Italian or French
> > of whatever courts feel they have to just sit around and wait until the
> > planets line up in a certain way such that they can get off their tail ends
> > and decide whether they should do something or not. But this doesn't really
> > seem to be about the cases themselves, but rather the publicity they bring
> > to (apparently) otherwise bored-to-death civil servants, who find it amusing
> > to spring things just days ahead of a major tour.
> >
> >
> > ===============================
> > "Now step out of your obsessive little world for a second here as I hold
> > your hand through this. Do you really think organizers of the biggest
> > races in the world want to exclude successful, high profile
> > participants? Do you think the organizing body wants to exclude
> > successful, high profile racers from their membership? Do you think
> > teams want to exclude successful, high profile racers from their teams?"
> > ==============================
> >
> >
> > Try again. A debacle like last year's TdF scares them even more. Having the
> > big-money guys either removed days before the start, or calling into
> > question the results immediately after the event.... that's what scares the
> > pants off them. And that's something they have absolutely no control over.
> > Lack of control is a very scary thing. It drives people to unreasonable
> > action.
> >
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >
>
> Given that the ASO, UCI, and teams caused the debacle you claimed scares
> them more than the doping problem itself, it is a fact you are wrong.
> The doping problem scares them more. Otherwise, they wouldn't have done
> what they did.
>
> Floyd's positive test will bring the bar of tolerance down even lower.
> The ASO is pissed. I can tell you right now Ullrich and the entire
> Tinkoff team, which reads like a Who's Who List of convicted dopers,
> will never ride the Tour de France in the future. Never.
>
> If Landis is convicted by the time the 2007 Tour rolls around, then the
> ASO is going to probably try to exclude Basso too. They probably won't
> succeeed in doing it, but they will try.
>
>
>
> Magilla

Grilla is right here. Besides Rihs, the ASO is the most pissed off
about the whole situation. They lost the most in this debacle in terms
of goodwill. Teams and riders come and go and Joe fucking blow on his
Ultegra triple chainringed Trek has no clue what the UCI is - but every
house frau from Seattle to Miami knows about the Tour.

Now listen here this shit is important - The ASO is not necessarily
pissed about the fact that Floyd doped. While the French don't like it
they have a far more pragmatic understanding of the situation than all
you pollyanna statesiders.

What pisses them off is that the jagoff doesn't have enough respect for
the sport to at least dope properly. And in this day and age doping
properly means not getting caught.

DA74

Date: 06 Jan 2007 19:26:23
From: DA74
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

Bill C wrote:
> We've seen this beforer and it was supposed to be a bad thing.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=3Dnews/2007/jan07/jan06news
>
> The details could be about which races the team may or may not get
> invited to if they were to sign the 33 year-old German. Some
> organizers, like the Deutschland Tour, have made it clear that they
> don't want anything to do with teams that sign riders implicated in
> Operaci=F3n Puerto or who are involved with Eufemiano Fuentes.
>
> "I want to talk to the organizers ..." confirmed Masciarelli. "And,
> finally, we have to wait for the decision from the Swiss Federation. A
> few weeks ago the president [of the Swiss federation] announced that
> the case is heading towards being shelved, but at the moment there is
> not any kind of official decision.
>
> I never thought cyclists supported McCarthy, but I guess we need a
> "Cycling supports McCarthy" set of products.
> I'll pass on them though.
> Magilla and his friends can take over Joseph's role.
> Bill C

Weak troll. But I'll bite. The problem with people like you is that
you've got no clue what is really going on in the case, but you'll
weigh in with your meaningless biased opinion. You've read the
propaganda leaked by all sides and you think you know, but you really
don't. You need to face the fact that you don't know shit about the
case.

Now step out of your obsessive little world for a second here as I hold
your hand through this. Do you really think organizers of the biggest
races in the world want to exclude successful, high profile
participants? Do you think the organizing body wants to exclude
successful, high profile racers from their membership? Do you think
teams want to exclude successful, high profile racers from their teams?

If you answered "no" to all three questions you're on track. All of
these groups make their money specifically from keeping successful,
high profile athletes in the game doing what they do best. They all
lose if someone like Jan is excluded.

Now that you know this, you can see that the bar is set pretty high for
these players to turn on a succesful, high profile athlete. In fact,
the only reason a guy like Jan gets excluded from participating without
some sort of "due process" is simply because he got caught. Not caught
in a some ambiguous kind of situation but caught red fucking handed.

Now, I'm not saying it's good enough that he got caught because there
are myriad ways of getting off the hook. But what I am saying is that
those motherfuckers who hold the puppet strings of the sport KNOW. And
I'm talking beyond any of this reasonable fucking doubt that the guy
did it, how he did it, who he did it with, how long he's done it etc.
etc.

The bike world ain't that big you assjacks. Everybody in the know knows
exactly what's going on. It's the the jagoffs in the bleacher seats
drinking watered down Bud and yelling at the batter that everyone then
has to tolerate...Because you BELIEVE.

DA74

Date: 07 Jan 2007 17:48:11
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

=================================
"Now, I'm not saying it's good enough that he got caught because there
are myriad ways of getting off the hook. But what I am saying is that
those motherfuckers who hold the puppet strings of the sport KNOW. And
I'm talking beyond any of this reasonable fucking doubt that the guy
did it, how he did it, who he did it with, how long he's done it etc.
etc."
================================

Oh my, another BIG CONSPIRACY theorist. Somehow everybody knows, and yet
nobody can do anything about it. Hundreds of people involved, and not one
court that can find enough corroborating evidence to bring it to a
conclusion.

I'll tell you what's really wrong here. Time. The time people take to drag
this all out. The time in which it appears the Spanish or Italian or French
of whatever courts feel they have to just sit around and wait until the
planets line up in a certain way such that they can get off their tail ends
and decide whether they should do something or not. But this doesn't really
seem to be about the cases themselves, but rather the publicity they bring
to (apparently) otherwise bored-to-death civil servants, who find it amusing
to spring things just days ahead of a major tour.

===============================
"Now step out of your obsessive little world for a second here as I hold
your hand through this. Do you really think organizers of the biggest
races in the world want to exclude successful, high profile
participants? Do you think the organizing body wants to exclude
successful, high profile racers from their membership? Do you think
teams want to exclude successful, high profile racers from their teams?"
==============================

Try again. A debacle like last year's TdF scares them even more. Having the
big-money guys either removed days before the start, or calling into
question the results immediately after the event.... that's what scares the
pants off them. And that's something they have absolutely no control over.
Lack of control is a very scary thing. It drives people to unreasonable
action.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1168140383.161063.51220@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...

Bill C wrote:
> We've seen this beforer and it was supposed to be a bad thing.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan06news
>
> The details could be about which races the team may or may not get
> invited to if they were to sign the 33 year-old German. Some
> organizers, like the Deutschland Tour, have made it clear that they
> don't want anything to do with teams that sign riders implicated in
> Operaci�n Puerto or who are involved with Eufemiano Fuentes.
>
> "I want to talk to the organizers ..." confirmed Masciarelli. "And,
> finally, we have to wait for the decision from the Swiss Federation. A
> few weeks ago the president [of the Swiss federation] announced that
> the case is heading towards being shelved, but at the moment there is
> not any kind of official decision.
>
> I never thought cyclists supported McCarthy, but I guess we need a
> "Cycling supports McCarthy" set of products.
> I'll pass on them though.
> Magilla and his friends can take over Joseph's role.
> Bill C

Weak troll. But I'll bite. The problem with people like you is that
you've got no clue what is really going on in the case, but you'll
weigh in with your meaningless biased opinion. You've read the
propaganda leaked by all sides and you think you know, but you really
don't. You need to face the fact that you don't know shit about the
case.

Now step out of your obsessive little world for a second here as I hold
your hand through this. Do you really think organizers of the biggest
races in the world want to exclude successful, high profile
participants? Do you think the organizing body wants to exclude
successful, high profile racers from their membership? Do you think
teams want to exclude successful, high profile racers from their teams?

If you answered "no" to all three questions you're on track. All of
these groups make their money specifically from keeping successful,
high profile athletes in the game doing what they do best. They all
lose if someone like Jan is excluded.

Now that you know this, you can see that the bar is set pretty high for
these players to turn on a succesful, high profile athlete. In fact,
the only reason a guy like Jan gets excluded from participating without
some sort of "due process" is simply because he got caught. Not caught
in a some ambiguous kind of situation but caught red fucking handed.

Now, I'm not saying it's good enough that he got caught because there
are myriad ways of getting off the hook. But what I am saying is that
those motherfuckers who hold the puppet strings of the sport KNOW. And
I'm talking beyond any of this reasonable fucking doubt that the guy
did it, how he did it, who he did it with, how long he's done it etc.
etc.

The bike world ain't that big you assjacks. Everybody in the know knows
exactly what's going on. It's the the jagoffs in the bleacher seats
drinking watered down Bud and yelling at the batter that everyone then
has to tolerate...Because you BELIEVE.

DA74

Date: 07 Jan 2007 13:41:46
From: MagillaGorilla
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

Date: 07 Jan 2007 13:29:12
From: MagillaGorilla
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

Date: 08 Jan 2007 14:14:32
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

Date: 07 Jan 2007 13:26:32
From: MagillaGorilla
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> =================================
> "Now, I'm not saying it's good enough that he got caught because there
> are myriad ways of getting off the hook. But what I am saying is that
> those motherfuckers who hold the puppet strings of the sport KNOW. And
> I'm talking beyond any of this reasonable fucking doubt that the guy
> did it, how he did it, who he did it with, how long he's done it etc.
> etc."
> ================================
>
>
> Oh my, another BIG CONSPIRACY theorist. Somehow everybody knows, and yet
> nobody can do anything about it. Hundreds of people involved, and not one
> court that can find enough corroborating evidence to bring it to a
> conclusion.
>
> I'll tell you what's really wrong here. Time. The time people take to drag
> this all out. The time in which it appears the Spanish or Italian or French
> of whatever courts feel they have to just sit around and wait until the
> planets line up in a certain way such that they can get off their tail ends
> and decide whether they should do something or not. But this doesn't really
> seem to be about the cases themselves, but rather the publicity they bring
> to (apparently) otherwise bored-to-death civil servants, who find it amusing
> to spring things just days ahead of a major tour.
>
>
> ===============================
> "Now step out of your obsessive little world for a second here as I hold
> your hand through this. Do you really think organizers of the biggest
> races in the world want to exclude successful, high profile
> participants? Do you think the organizing body wants to exclude
> successful, high profile racers from their membership? Do you think
> teams want to exclude successful, high profile racers from their teams?"
> ==============================
>
>
> Try again. A debacle like last year's TdF scares them even more. Having the
> big-money guys either removed days before the start, or calling into
> question the results immediately after the event.... that's what scares the
> pants off them. And that's something they have absolutely no control over.
> Lack of control is a very scary thing. It drives people to unreasonable
> action.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "DA74" <davidastor74@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1168140383.161063.51220@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bill C wrote:
>
>>We've seen this beforer and it was supposed to be a bad thing.
>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan06news
>>
>>The details could be about which races the team may or may not get
>>invited to if they were to sign the 33 year-old German. Some
>>organizers, like the Deutschland Tour, have made it clear that they
>>don't want anything to do with teams that sign riders implicated in
>>Operaci�n Puerto or who are involved with Eufemiano Fuentes.
>>
>>"I want to talk to the organizers ..." confirmed Masciarelli. "And,
>>finally, we have to wait for the decision from the Swiss Federation. A
>>few weeks ago the president [of the Swiss federation] announced that
>>the case is heading towards being shelved, but at the moment there is
>>not any kind of official decision.
>>
>>I never thought cyclists supported McCarthy, but I guess we need a
>>"Cycling supports McCarthy" set of products.
>> I'll pass on them though.
>> Magilla and his friends can take over Joseph's role.
>>Bill C
>
>
> Weak troll. But I'll bite. The problem with people like you is that
> you've got no clue what is really going on in the case, but you'll
> weigh in with your meaningless biased opinion. You've read the
> propaganda leaked by all sides and you think you know, but you really
> don't. You need to face the fact that you don't know shit about the
> case.

Are you lucid? It's the people who believe that Operacion Puerto is
just this created myth who are the conspiracy theorists because they
will have everyone believe that all the evidence the Spanish police have
gathered....the faxes, the lists with riders names...the blood
bags...are all fabricated and belong to nobody.

You will have everyone believe that Saiz was walking around the cafe
district in Spain with a fucking cooler full of blood and 60k in Euros
for no reason (does he moonlight as a fucking hematologist or
paramedic?). I won't even get into the positive tests of two riders who
live in Spain for homologous blood doping.

I don't proclaim to know the details or that 100% of the facts the
Spanish police have are accurate. I'm sure they're not (I'm also sure
the Spanish police probably only have 25% of the actual evidence that
exists). But you will have everyone believe that thousands of pages of
documents that talk about an organized doping ring and bags of blood in
evidence show absolutely NOTHING.

Throw in there Hamilton and Perez's positives - both of whom live in
Spain, the supposed center of the universe when it comes to blood
doping. This is all just one big coincidence to you fabricated by the
Spanish police?

That's not credible. You're like the guy who believes in UFO abductions
and then calls debunkers conspiracy theorists when just the opposite is
true.

>
> Now step out of your obsessive little world for a second here as I hold
> your hand through this. Do you really think organizers of the biggest
> races in the world want to exclude successful, high profile
> participants? Do you think the organizing body wants to exclude
> successful, high profile racers from their membership? Do you think
> teams want to exclude successful, high profile racers from their teams?
>
> If you answered "no" to all three questions you're on track. All of
> these groups make their money specifically from keeping successful,
> high profile athletes in the game doing what they do best. They all
> lose if someone like Jan is excluded.
>
> Now that you know this, you can see that the bar is set pretty high for
> these players to turn on a succesful, high profile athlete. In fact,
> the only reason a guy like Jan gets excluded from participating without
> some sort of "due process" is simply because he got caught. Not caught
> in a some ambiguous kind of situation but caught red fucking handed.
>
> Now, I'm not saying it's good enough that he got caught because there
> are myriad ways of getting off the hook. But what I am saying is that
> those motherfuckers who hold the puppet strings of the sport KNOW. And
> I'm talking beyond any of this reasonable fucking doubt that the guy
> did it, how he did it, who he did it with, how long he's done it etc.
> etc.
>
> The bike world ain't that big you assjacks. Everybody in the know knows
> exactly what's going on. It's the the jagoffs in the bleacher seats
> drinking watered down Bud and yelling at the batter that everyone then
> has to tolerate...Because you BELIEVE.
>
> DA74
>

This is the correct analysis of Operacion Puerto without claiming to
know the details.

Magilla

Date: 06 Jan 2007 21:41:13
From: MagillaGorilla
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

Bill C wrote:
> We've seen this beforer and it was supposed to be a bad thing.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan06news
>
> The details could be about which races the team may or may not get
> invited to if they were to sign the 33 year-old German. Some
> organizers, like the Deutschland Tour, have made it clear that they
> don't want anything to do with teams that sign riders implicated in
> Operaci�n Puerto or who are involved with Eufemiano Fuentes.
>
> "I want to talk to the organizers ..." confirmed Masciarelli. "And,
> finally, we have to wait for the decision from the Swiss Federation. A
> few weeks ago the president [of the Swiss federation] announced that
> the case is heading towards being shelved, but at the moment there is
> not any kind of official decision.
>
> I never thought cyclists supported McCarthy, but I guess we need a
> "Cycling supports McCarthy" set of products.
> I'll pass on them though.
> Magilla and his friends can take over Joseph's role.
> Bill C
>

Organizers of invitational races have the right to not invite riders who
they feel will tarnish their image. It's really nothing like McCarthy,
which had no basis in fact. In Operacion Puerto, there is substantial
factual basis.

Thanks,

Magilla

Date: 06 Jan 2007 17:39:33
From: ilan
Subject: Re: McCarthyism, Blacklists, and cycling

I am continually amazed at the pseudo historical references to
McCarthy, e.g., in movies which purport to recount the truth about the
McCarthyist Hollywood blacklist. In fact, the house un-american
activities committee had its hearings before McCarthy made the
slightest fuss about communism. Moreover, McCarthy targeted the state
department and the army, which was his undoing, and which initiated the
end of the hysteria, since the government could put up with witch hunts
in the movie industry, but not within its own ranks. It's so easy to
check the facts, it hurts.

-ilan

Bill C wrote:
> We've seen this beforer and it was supposed to be a bad thing.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=3Dnews/2007/jan07/jan06news
>
> The details could be about which races the team may or may not get
> invited to if they were to sign the 33 year-old German. Some
> organizers, like the Deutschland Tour, have made it clear that they
> don't want anything to do with teams that sign riders implicated in
> Operaci=F3n Puerto or who are involved with Eufemiano Fuentes.
>
> "I want to talk to the organizers ..." confirmed Masciarelli. "And,
> finally, we have to wait for the decision from the Swiss Federation. A
> few weeks ago the president [of the Swiss federation] announced that
> the case is heading towards being shelved, but at the moment there is
> not any kind of official decision.
>
> I never thought cyclists supported McCarthy, but I guess we need a
> "Cycling supports McCarthy" set of products.
> I'll pass on them though.
> Magilla and his friends can take over Joseph's role.
> Bill C