| |
Main
Date: 12 Jun 2007 02:34:44
From:
Subject: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
http://www.tourofelkgrove.com
Saturday, August 11, 2007 (2.3 Mile Criterium Course)
9:00 AM Pro Men Stage 1 Time-Trial $15,000 4.5 miles
11:45 AM Women Cat. 3/4 $3,000 20 Mins.+ 1 lap WHAT THE FUCK??
12:15 PM Juniors 10-14 Awards 3 laps
12:40 PM Juniors 15-18 Awards 20 Mins.+ 1 lap What the
FUCK?????
1:10 PM Men Cat. 5 - Heat 1 Awards 20 Mins.+ 1 lap
1:40 PM Men Cat. 5 - Heat 2 Awards 20 Mins.+ 1 lap
2:10 PM Men Cat. 3/4 $5,000 20 Mins. + 1 lap
2:45 PM Pro-AM Men Cat. 1/2 $17,500 60K
5:30 PM Pro Men Stage 2 $32,500 80K
Sunday, August 12, 2007 (1.7 Mile Criterium Course)
9:00 AM Masters Men Cat. 4/5 $3,000 35 Mins.+ 1 lap Cat 5's can race
for cash now???? When did this happen?
9:45 AM Masters Men Cat. 1/2/3 $4,000 35 Mins.+ 1 lap
10:30 AM Mayor's Challenge Awards 4 laps
11:05 AM Trustees Fun Ride 1 lap
11:30 AM Big Wheel Race 2-7 Awards 100 meters
12:15 PM Pro Women Cat. 1/2 $15,000 60K
2:00 PM Alexian Brothers Pro Men Stage 3 $105,000 110K
|
|
| |
Date: 27 Jun 2007 03:45:14
From: ST
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On 6/12/07 2:34 AM, in article
1181640884.305155.272310@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com,
"dupedcyclist@aol.com" <dupedcyclist@aol.com > wrote:
> http://www.tourofelkgrove.com
>
>
> Saturday, August 11, 2007 (2.3 Mile Criterium Course)
>
>
> 9:00 AM Pro Men Stage 1 Time-Trial $15,000 4.5 miles
> 11:45 AM Women Cat. 3/4 $3,000 20 Mins.+ 1 lap WHAT THE FUCK??
> 12:15 PM Juniors 10-14 Awards 3 laps
> 12:40 PM Juniors 15-18 Awards 20 Mins.+ 1 lap What the
> FUCK?????
> 1:10 PM Men Cat. 5 - Heat 1 Awards 20 Mins.+ 1 lap
> 1:40 PM Men Cat. 5 - Heat 2 Awards 20 Mins.+ 1 lap
> 2:10 PM Men Cat. 3/4 $5,000 20 Mins. + 1 lap
> 2:45 PM Pro-AM Men Cat. 1/2 $17,500 60K
> 5:30 PM Pro Men Stage 2 $32,500 80K
>
>
>
>
> Sunday, August 12, 2007 (1.7 Mile Criterium Course)
>
>
> 9:00 AM Masters Men Cat. 4/5 $3,000 35 Mins.+ 1 lap Cat 5's can race
> for cash now???? When did this happen?
>
> 9:45 AM Masters Men Cat. 1/2/3 $4,000 35 Mins.+ 1 lap
> 10:30 AM Mayor's Challenge Awards 4 laps
> 11:05 AM Trustees Fun Ride 1 lap
> 11:30 AM Big Wheel Race 2-7 Awards 100 meters
> 12:15 PM Pro Women Cat. 1/2 $15,000 60K
> 2:00 PM Alexian Brothers Pro Men Stage 3 $105,000 110K
>
Hey cat 5 ASSBAG!!
When it is combined with a 4 race they can get primes AND cash!!
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 14:34:20
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
dupedcyclist@aol.com wrote:
> 9:00 AM Masters Men Cat. 4/5 $3,000 35 Mins.+ 1 lap Cat 5's can race
> for cash now???? When did this happen?
Dumbass,
Philosophically I am with you on handing out large prize lists to
lower category racers. In my experience it leads to lots of lesser
skilled riders eating lots of pavement. The race is sponsored by a
hospital so maybe that's the point, eh? At any rate, mixing
categories allows them to do this.
1F5. Maximum Prize.
(a) In youth races and races exclusively for category 5 men, no prizes
(including primes) of commercial value may be awarded -- only such
things as trophies, medals, ribbons and certificates of participation.
Bob Schwartz
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 23:20:15
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Jun 13, 6:10 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:33:39 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
>
>
>
> <frankdr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ><derFah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>> Duped,
>
> >>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of
> >>> time
> >>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>
> >>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change the
> >>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>
> >> he's not complaining about the time ...
>
> >> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
> >> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
> >> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
>
> >Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more money
> >by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
>
> That might make it understandable, but doesn't make it right.
dumbass,
there is no "right" in this situation.
the organizer of any race that's been around more than a couple of
years has had identify who is paying for the race (ie. entrants ?
sponsors ? the town ?) and deliver what they are expecting to get out
of it in order for the race to survive.
despite what you hear riders bitch about the turnout in amateur racing
is pretty insensitive to entry fee or prize purse. riders are mostly
interested in a memorable or interesting racing experience.
though i do think a big purse is a good way to draw attention to a new
or obscure event that doesn't have much else going for it.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 16:48:02
From: derFahrer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net > wrote:
> Duped,
>
> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of time
> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>
> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change the
> number of daylight hours in a day.
he's not complaining about the time ...
someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
|
| | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 12:33:39
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
<derFahrer@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Duped,
>>
>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of
>> time
>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>>
>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change the
>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>
> he's not complaining about the time ...
>
> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more money
by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 18:10:14
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:33:39 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
<frankdrack@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
><derFahrer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Duped,
>>>
>>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of
>>> time
>>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>>>
>>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change the
>>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>>
>> he's not complaining about the time ...
>>
>> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
>> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
>> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
>
>Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more money
>by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
That might make it understandable, but doesn't make it right.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 08:10:01
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:kpq073tca0j6lj4jtedojasqbsprn2h26p@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:33:39 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
> <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><derFahrer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Duped,
>>>>
>>>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of
>>>> time
>>>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>>>>
>>>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change
>>>> the
>>>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>>>
>>> he's not complaining about the time ...
>>>
>>> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
>>> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
>>> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
>>
>>Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more
>>money
>>by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
>
> That might make it understandable, but doesn't make it right.
>
I am really confused on your thinking on this issue. What is wrong with it?
Is it that you think that sandbagging is hurting bike racing in the U.S.?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 18:11:59
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:10:01 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
<frankdrack@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
>news:kpq073tca0j6lj4jtedojasqbsprn2h26p@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:33:39 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
>> <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><derFahrer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> Duped,
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of
>>>>> time
>>>>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change
>>>>> the
>>>>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>>>>
>>>> he's not complaining about the time ...
>>>>
>>>> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
>>>> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
>>>> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
>>>
>>>Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more
>>>money
>>>by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
>>
>> That might make it understandable, but doesn't make it right.
>>
>
>
>I am really confused on your thinking on this issue. What is wrong with it?
>
>Is it that you think that sandbagging is hurting bike racing in the U.S.?
Too many low level cyclists think they should get money for results,
but results at low levels of the sport are relatively nothing when you
consider that the people who could easily beat the participants are
not allowed in the race.
Money in the sport should be spend either on encouraging participation
-- that is on making it a betters/more accesible event for all
particiapnts. Or for excellence, which is for the best people in the
top events.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 16:51:32
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:j5f373hola879t943pd4bovum7t439hng9@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:10:01 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
> <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote in message
>>news:kpq073tca0j6lj4jtedojasqbsprn2h26p@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:33:39 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
>>> <frankdrack@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>><derFahrer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Duped,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>>>>>
>>>>> he's not complaining about the time ...
>>>>>
>>>>> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
>>>>> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
>>>>> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
>>>>
>>>>Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more
>>>>money
>>>>by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
>>>
>>> That might make it understandable, but doesn't make it right.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I am really confused on your thinking on this issue. What is wrong with
>>it?
>>
>>Is it that you think that sandbagging is hurting bike racing in the U.S.?
>
> Too many low level cyclists think they should get money for results,
> but results at low levels of the sport are relatively nothing when you
> consider that the people who could easily beat the participants are
> not allowed in the race.
>
> Money in the sport should be spend either on encouraging participation
> -- that is on making it a betters/more accesible event for all
> particiapnts. Or for excellence, which is for the best people in the
> top events.
>
I agree that prize money for the lower cats is silly but if it draws more
racers and is a good business decision for the promoter it falls way below
the line of issues for me.
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 15:09:27
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
Frank Drackman wrote:
> <derFahrer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1181753282.788542.55760@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jun 13, 9:23 am, "xzzy" <mrbikej...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Duped,
>>>
>>> Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of
>>> time
>>> in a day to run all the races at an event.
>>>
>>> Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change the
>>> number of daylight hours in a day.
>> he's not complaining about the time ...
>>
>> someone has duped the promoters into thinking cat 4s, cat 3s, and Pro
>> Masters should get Pro money (well, dreamer-Pro money). and duped the
>> cat 4s, 3s and PM's into expecting it.
>
> Isn't just a business decision by the promoter? Maybe they make more money
> by offering $$ for the winners in the lower cats.
With the field limits the maximum entry is less than the prize list
for most of the races, maybe for all of them. The exceptions are
the Junior and the Cat 5 races which charge $20 for no prizes.
It's been my experience that increases in the prize list generally
does not come back in increased entries.
Bob Schwartz
|
| | | | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 17:53:29
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:Y9Ybi.3747$bP5.2143@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> It's been my experience that increases in the prize list generally
> does not come back in increased entries.
Women's racing is proof of that.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 19:19:03
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:53:29 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote:
>
>"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:Y9Ybi.3747$bP5.2143@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>
>> It's been my experience that increases in the prize list generally
>> does not come back in increased entries.
>
>Women's racing is proof of that.
The rule for short track auto racing prize lists used to be advertise a big
purse for first place to get spectators and pay deep to get racers. They usually
pay "tow money" way, way down the list.
Ron
Ron
Effect pedal demo's up at http://www.soundclick.com/ronsonicpedalry
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 20:09:37
From:
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Jun 12, 10:49 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net >
wrote:
> And don't get me started on pro Masters racing. Just don't.
I'm curious, so can you elaborate?
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 18:57:49
From: derFahrer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Jun 12, 11:49 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net >
wrote:
>
> And don't get me started on pro Masters racing. Just don't.
hey, what other excuse then could we tell our wives for why we need to
race every weekend?
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 11:02:21
From:
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Jun 12, 8:49 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net >
wrote:
> derFah...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Philosophically I am with you on handing out large prize lists to
> >> lower category racers. In my experience it leads to lots of lesser
> >> skilled riders eating lots of pavement. The race is sponsored by a
> >> hospital so maybe that's the point, eh? At any rate, mixing
> >> categories allows them to do this.
>
> > they had one of these big money cat 3 races here in OH a few years
> > ago ... and you had guys rushing to downgrade in time for the race,
> > then afterwards sandbagging complaints and checking to see if
> > categories were legit. what a hassle.
>
> > in the larger picture ... we should be giving guys more incentive to
> > MOVE UP, not down or stay the same. Many of the races here the last
> > few years have small 1/2 fields and then 3/4 fields that are 2 or 3x
> > as large.
>
> In Wisconsin this would be the Superweek effect. It used to be the
> case that no one would upgrade before Superweek. This race, which is
> effectively at the end of the season, will extend that.
>
> I didn't notice it before but some of those races have 175 rider field
> limits. Bike racing is entertainment, and 175 riders in a crit will
> certainly be entertaining.
>
> And don't get me started on pro Masters racing. Just don't.
Amateur racing should get NOTHING but trophies or nothing at all.
Anyone that accepts prize money should be immediately disqualified as
an amateur for 5 years.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 14:51:31
From: derFahrer@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
> Philosophically I am with you on handing out large prize lists to
> lower category racers. In my experience it leads to lots of lesser
> skilled riders eating lots of pavement. The race is sponsored by a
> hospital so maybe that's the point, eh? At any rate, mixing
> categories allows them to do this.
they had one of these big money cat 3 races here in OH a few years
ago ... and you had guys rushing to downgrade in time for the race,
then afterwards sandbagging complaints and checking to see if
categories were legit. what a hassle.
in the larger picture ... we should be giving guys more incentive to
MOVE UP, not down or stay the same. Many of the races here the last
few years have small 1/2 fields and then 3/4 fields that are 2 or 3x
as large.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 19:30:08
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:51:31 -0000, "derFahrer@gmail.com"
<derFahrer@gmail.com > wrote:
>they had one of these big money cat 3 races here in OH a few years
>ago ... and you had guys rushing to downgrade in time for the race,
>then afterwards sandbagging complaints and checking to see if
>categories were legit. what a hassle.
>
>in the larger picture ... we should be giving guys more incentive to
>MOVE UP, not down or stay the same. Many of the races here the last
>few years have small 1/2 fields and then 3/4 fields that are 2 or 3x
>as large.
Yeah.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 07:23:58
From: xzzy
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
Duped,
Someone has duped you into thinking that there is a unlimited amount of time
in a day to run all the races at an event.
Not even Mike can change a 24 hour day into a 30 hour day, or change the
number of daylight hours in a day.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 10:49:35
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Mike Hanley asleep at the wheel again?
|
derFahrer@gmail.com wrote:
>> Philosophically I am with you on handing out large prize lists to
>> lower category racers. In my experience it leads to lots of lesser
>> skilled riders eating lots of pavement. The race is sponsored by a
>> hospital so maybe that's the point, eh? At any rate, mixing
>> categories allows them to do this.
>
> they had one of these big money cat 3 races here in OH a few years
> ago ... and you had guys rushing to downgrade in time for the race,
> then afterwards sandbagging complaints and checking to see if
> categories were legit. what a hassle.
>
> in the larger picture ... we should be giving guys more incentive to
> MOVE UP, not down or stay the same. Many of the races here the last
> few years have small 1/2 fields and then 3/4 fields that are 2 or 3x
> as large.
In Wisconsin this would be the Superweek effect. It used to be the
case that no one would upgrade before Superweek. This race, which is
effectively at the end of the season, will extend that.
I didn't notice it before but some of those races have 175 rider field
limits. Bike racing is entertainment, and 175 riders in a crit will
certainly be entertaining.
And don't get me started on pro Masters racing. Just don't.
Bob Schwartz
|
|
