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Main
Date: 20 Dec 2006 10:37:47
From: ilan
Subject: Paris bike shops
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Well, I wanted to share with everyone the joy of being a cyclist in
Paris, and one of the
highlights are the absolutely awful bike shops. I had previously
thought the worst of the lot
was Cycle Laurent. The last time I went there in September, they told
me that there was
no point repainting a steel frame, because it cost around 600 Euros (I
later called up a local
frame builder, Levacon, who said he could do it for 200 including
disassembly and
assembly), and the time before that, they couldn't replace a broken
spoke, at least, not with
what I had because "they" didn't make double butted spokes anymore.
However, I found a new candidate for the absolutely worst bike shop in
Paris, which is
the Bouticycle St. Honore, which is just across from the Louvre. This
shop is new, as
the owner replaced his former auto parts store with a bike shop two
years ago, so it
combines Parisian arrogance with newbie ignorance. The first time I
went there, I was looking
for a 17 degree stem, and the owner assured me that he didn't know of
any such thing, and that if
I needed one for a new bicycle, then I would surely have to get a
custom frame. Interestingly,
he is a Look retailer, and yet he was unaware of the adjustable Look
ergostem. Which
leads me to my visit there today, as I was interested in checking out
details of the new
Look KG595 frame, as I was unable to figure out everything from the
Look website. In particular,
I wanted to know how their new seatpost works, that is, how it is
adjusted. The owner
explained that you did not adjust the post by moving it on a seat
collar, but that the
integrated seatpost was cut to your approximate size, and then
elastometers were used to
obtain the desired height. When I questioned him on the size of the
elastometers, he said
that the smallest size was 5mm. I was quite surprised at this because
it seems to me
that it is well known that saddle height is rarely adjusted by more
than 2mm increments.
He explained that to buy this frame, one needed an in depth postural
study, and after this
was accomplished, the saddle height would never be changed. I was
equally shocked at this,
because it seemed obvious to me that you might want to vary your saddle
height (especially
after I had seen the seemingly unadjustable Project 96 track bikes).
No, he and
his assistant assured me, once you reach your adult size, you never
change saddle height
ever. I brought up different saddle heights for climbing versus
cobbles, and also change of
pedals, and he told me that since this was such a concern to me, it
wasn't the bike for me.
I was quite puzzled by this, and after I left the store, I realised
that it was very common
to change saddle height because of the different types of saddles on
the ket which
have different thicknesses, so what he said couldn't be true, you don't
invent a new
technology which is worse than the old one (the new integrated saddle
has many
advantages, for example, the seatpost cannot slip down into the frame).
So I called up
the Look company directly and talked to one of their representatives.
He was quite shocked
at what I told him, in particular, he explained that the adjustement
was made with carbon
fiber spacers, not elastometers, and that the smallest spacer was
1.25mm (I found this
information later on their website). He then asked me to name the bike
shop, and wasn't
surprised that it was in Paris. In fact, he said that they had a lot of
trouble finding dealers
inside big cities, they had none in Milan or Berlin, and that the Paris
shops were indeed
quite bad, especially compared to the ones in the near suburbs. It was
funny, because
he immediately gave the example of changing saddle height due to
changing from an
Arione saddle to an SLR saddle which was thinner, so he confirmed
everything I suspected
in even more detail. I think it upset him that the company went to so
much trouble to
have a new seatpost system that worked well, and that his dealers gave
the exact
opposite impression of the technology. Apart from that, he was the most
knowledgeable and
helpful company rep I've ever spoken to in France. As he said, it is
also true that bike
shops improve as soon as you get out of the city of Paris. If and when
I get this frame,
I will go to one of the excellent bike shops in the Vallee de
Chevreuse.
-ilan
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Date: 11 Jan 2007 08:43:26
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Glad you found a great bike shop, by the way! I'll try to check it out next
> time I'm there.
Thanks! Actually, it came at the right moment, because I was thinking
of getting the bike in Chalons-en-Champagne, which is 180km from Paris.
The bike shop there was OK, and the owner actually rides the frame I am
interested in. However (!!), I spent Christmas vacation there, and went
on the Sunday morning group ride, which starts from his shop, and that
ride definitely made my top 5 worst rides ever (OK, not counting the
horrible circuits like Boulogne, VIncennes, Rose Bowl). Basically, it
degenerated into a hammer session replete with attacks, chases, etc. I
have been on hard Christmas rides, but those were in California in
moderate weather, and with collegiate riders whose seasons started in
late January or early February. This ride probably had no experienced
racers (rather the contrary to ride so stupidly) and the temperature
was a chilly 2C. Anyway, the point is that I we were climbing some
short rollers and I was fairly comfortable in 2nd place riding fairly
fast (probably at AT), when this bike shop owner attacked and took a
group of 3 riders for a breakaway. I must say that I have rarely been
so surprised in my life. In any case, I am never going to buy a bike
from someone who rides like that in those conditions (two days later, I
did the related group ride which included some serious racers whose
season started in February, and it was run a an extremely even pace,
definitely one of the best rides of 2006).
So Mike, be careful not to annoy prospective bike buyers on rides :)
-ilan
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 16:23:13
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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Robert Chung wrote:
> ilan wrote:
> > I think the only used bikes I would trust are the ones on the Excel
> > Sports Boulder website (I assume that the complete bikes have seen some
> > use). I saw a full Ultegra bike at Go Sport for about 1300 Euros, so I
> > can't see the point of getting a used bike.
>
> Yeah, the price of new bikes is pretty reasonable, but I was trying to get
> an idea of the price of good used bikes for comparison. In the short run,
> we're spending the spring semester there and I'm tired of dragging my bike
> back-and-forth so I'm looking to buy something I can stash there and ride
> for a few months out of the year. We've tabled our unending discussion of
> where to live in lieu of periodic but extended stays.
The best way to get a good deal on a used bike is to get one from a
fellow Masters Fattie who is "upgrading." Unfortunately, Kunich
seems to be on leave.
It might be cost-effective to buy a bike at for ex. the Cupertino Bike
Shop swap meet and bring it over there, if you can get it into France
without paying duty on it (I have no clue on the rules for tourists vs
residents), if you are in the Bay Area when over here, that is.
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 21:45:37
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> The best way to get a good deal on a used bike is to get one from a
> fellow Masters Fattie who is "upgrading." Unfortunately, Kunich
> seems to be on leave.
Hmmm. There are lots of places with a high density of masters fatties
(density, ha, get it?), and lots of places with folks with lots of
disposable income, but where can I find the best intersection of those two
characteristics. I think the South Bay could be fertile ground.
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 23:24:46
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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In article <50gofqF1gc2qeU1@mid.individual.net >,
"Robert Chung" <me@address.invalid > wrote:
> bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
>
> > The best way to get a good deal on a used bike is to get one from a
> > fellow Masters Fattie who is "upgrading." Unfortunately, Kunich
> > seems to be on leave.
>
> Hmmm. There are lots of places with a high density of masters fatties
> (density, ha, get it?), and lots of places with folks with lots of
> disposable income, but where can I find the best intersection of those two
> characteristics. I think the South Bay could be fertile ground.
I haven't been to the ROMP swap meet they hold at the Cupertino Bike Shop in some
time but I know someone who regularly goes. His opinion was that pickings were
getting pretty slim over the last couple of years. It's usually on the last Sunday
in April (which doesn't sound like it'll help you now). I don't know if they're
having the big one at the Cow Palace again, but there were a lot of bikes there when
I went a couple of years ago. It's been held in November in the past (though that's
even less helpful). You could try the Bicycle Trader: http://www.bicycletrader.com/
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 13:14:31
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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I think the only used bikes I would trust are the ones on the Excel
Sports Boulder website (I assume that the complete bikes have seen some
use). I saw a full Ultegra bike at Go Sport for about 1300 Euros, so I
can't see the point of getting a used bike.
-ilan
Robert Chung wrote:
> ilan wrote:
> > I am glad to report that I finally found a good bike shop close to
> > Paris. On Saturday, I went to the Bouticycle du Tourmalet in
> > Nogent-sur-ne
>
> I'll have to check them out.
>
> In your looking about, have you run across any sources for good used
> bikes?
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 14:37:19
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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ilan wrote:
> I think the only used bikes I would trust are the ones on the Excel
> Sports Boulder website (I assume that the complete bikes have seen some
> use). I saw a full Ultegra bike at Go Sport for about 1300 Euros, so I
> can't see the point of getting a used bike.
>
> -ilan
Yeah, the price of new bikes is pretty reasonable, but I was trying to get
an idea of the price of good used bikes for comparison. In the short run,
we're spending the spring semester there and I'm tired of dragging my bike
back-and-forth so I'm looking to buy something I can stash there and ride
for a few months out of the year. We've tabled our unending discussion of
where to live in lieu of periodic but extended stays.
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 07:16:29
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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I am glad to report that I finally found a good bike shop close to
Paris. On Saturday, I went to the Bouticycle du Tourmalet in
Nogent-sur-ne, about 3km from Paris and 500m from the Bois de
Vincennes. The staff was very good, and I was amazed at the price they
quoted me for a bicycle, it was actually similar to US mail order. They
also knew what they were talking about, e.g., they knew that FSA made a
73 degree rise stem, and made very few mistakes. Also, they quickly
adjusted to the fact that I already knew the geometry of the bikes I
was interested in by heart, so they did not treat me as if I was
ignorant. I would recommend this bike shop to any cyclist who has the
misfortune of being stuck in Paris. The only thing is that Tourmalet
means "bad detour" so is a strange choice for their name.
-ilan
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Date: 09 Jan 2007 17:45:37
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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> I would recommend this bike shop to any cyclist who has the
> misfortune of being stuck in Paris. The only thing is that Tourmalet
> means "bad detour" so is a strange choice for their name.
I spoke with my native-French service manager about "Tourmalet"- he's not
aware of it having that meaning. But sure enough, the Gascons named it, in
their local dialect, with that meaning. Point here being that I don't think
many cyclists, nor French in general, are going to see it as having a
negative connotation.
Glad you found a great bike shop, by the way! I'll try to check it out next
time I'm there.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1168269388.374024.172610@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>I am glad to report that I finally found a good bike shop close to
> Paris. On Saturday, I went to the Bouticycle du Tourmalet in
> Nogent-sur-ne, about 3km from Paris and 500m from the Bois de
> Vincennes. The staff was very good, and I was amazed at the price they
> quoted me for a bicycle, it was actually similar to US mail order. They
> also knew what they were talking about, e.g., they knew that FSA made a
> 73 degree rise stem, and made very few mistakes. Also, they quickly
> adjusted to the fact that I already knew the geometry of the bikes I
> was interested in by heart, so they did not treat me as if I was
> ignorant. I would recommend this bike shop to any cyclist who has the
> misfortune of being stuck in Paris. The only thing is that Tourmalet
> means "bad detour" so is a strange choice for their name.
>
> -ilan
>
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 11:48:54
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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ilan wrote:
> I am glad to report that I finally found a good bike shop close to
> Paris. On Saturday, I went to the Bouticycle du Tourmalet in
> Nogent-sur-ne
I'll have to check them out.
In your looking about, have you run across any sources for good used
bikes?
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 21:21:21
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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Robert Chung wrote:
> In your looking about, have you run across any sources for good used
> bikes?
Kunich's garage?
--
Bill Asher
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Date: 08 Jan 2007 15:56:04
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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ilan wrote:
> I am glad to report that I finally found a good bike shop close to
> Paris. On Saturday, I went to the Bouticycle du Tourmalet in
> Nogent-sur-ne, about 3km from Paris and 500m from the Bois de
> Vincennes. The staff was very good, and I was amazed at the price they
> quoted me for a bicycle, it was actually similar to US mail order. I would recommend this bike shop to any cyclist who has the
> misfortune of being stuck in Paris. The only thing is that Tourmalet
> means "bad detour" so is a strange choice for their name.
Maybe they specialise in fork repairs?
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Date: 22 Dec 2006 09:30:24
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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Robert Chung wrote:
>
> Was that the place on Richard Lenoir? I'll try them next time I need a
> box. I tried getting one from DKT but they break them down and fold them
> immediately (and the security guard gave me a hassle about walking out
> with an empty folded cardboard box).
That sounds right, though I'm not 100% sure. If memory serves me right
(this was
way back in May, so it's very hazy), it was on the street which is on
the Canal St. tin.
>
> This worries me a bit. I'm tired of schlepping my bike back-and-forth so
> this year I'm going to buy a bike and keep it in Paris. I don't have
> anything against the latest trick bikes but I'm not interested in having
> something that's built up with parts that may be hard to find in a couple
> of years.
When I talked to Levacon (e-mail with a 24 hour response time), he said
he would
have replacement parts for my 10 year old bike, without me mentioning
its exact components, so that is one address to keep in mind:
http://www.levacon.com/
> You been feeding peanuts to the crows?
They seem to have gone to greener pastures, unfortunately. Speaking of
cryptic inside info: Cyril or Dominique? Your answer will be forwarded
anonymously (speaking of corbeaux) to French immigration as an example
of your integration into French culture.
-ilan
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Date: 26 Dec 2006 07:05:27
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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ilan wrote:
> They seem to have gone to greener pastures, unfortunately. Speaking of
> cryptic inside info: Cyril or Dominique? Your answer will be forwarded
> anonymously (speaking of corbeaux) to French immigration as an example
> of your integration into French culture.
I'm afraid I'm not terribly well-integrated into either French or American
culture anymore. I'm sort of in a half-way house, but whether I'm
transitioning into France or the US is still unclear.
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Date: 21 Dec 2006 07:37:54
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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That's the bike shop I mentioned at the Porte Maillot, the place where
you have to come with a bullhorn to get the attention of the staff.
Otherwise, I can recommend the place because they have a TV set going
with Eurosport, so you can see live coverage of Spring classics, if you
don't have access to that, and they'll let you stand around as long as
you want, since they won't notice your existence.
-ilan
Dan Gregory wrote:
> Don't know it but somebody rates V=E9lo & Oxygen
> see http://www.passionveloblog.com/archive-12-06-2006.html
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Date: 21 Dec 2006 20:28:53
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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ilan wrote:
> Otherwise, I can recommend the place because they have a TV set going
> with Eurosport, so you can see live coverage of Spring classics, if you
> don't have access to that, and they'll let you stand around as long as
> you want, since they won't notice your existence.
Sounds like a good place to practise how to disappear completely.
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Date: 21 Dec 2006 05:04:22
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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OK, thanks! Here are a couple of important points that I had previously
failed to mention:
1. I should say that there is at least one pleasant Parisian bike shop,
though not necessarily for high end bicycles. In particular, I went to
Les Petits Velos de Maurice which sells some high end bikes, but
specialises in commuter bikes. They were very pleasant, the saleseman
had an Auber-93 polo shirt, and he was the one who communicated to me
Levacon, the builder who could repaint my frame (not surprisingly he is
from the same department as Aubervillier). The salesman actually spent
some time looking this up, even though the store was pretty busy. So my
previous rantings were not 100% accurate, as usual.
2. The difficulties I presented probably apply only to a person such as
myself, and I don't think there are too many of those in Paris. In
particular, each time I went to this St. Honore bike shop, there were
other customers who got along very well with the owner. The point is
that no problem will occur if you follow his advice blindly and
therefore become his "buddy" (or rather his bitch). This is likely why
I found Cycle Laurent so distasteful, as I didn't accept their word as
final.
3. As I was saying, the chains Go Sport and Decathlon are a good
Parisian alternative to bike shops. For example, after a disastrous
visit to Cycle Laurent, I went to the nearby Go Sport bicycle repair
shop (not the main Republique store, but an annex) and they were
extremely pleasant and helpful, they gave me an empty cardboard box to
store my bike, and also gave me (free of charge) wedges for the
dropouts.
4. From my observation, the Parisian bicycle culture is to keep a
bicycle for as long as possible, and the median bicycle age seems to be
about 20 years. About 1/4 of commuter bicycles are more than 30 years
old and have wing nuts. This is exaqctly contrary to the car culture,
which is to get rid of your car as quickly as possible, it is unusual
to see a car older than 15 years, even though the weather here is about
the same as in Northern California (basically, no snow). There is also
a penchant for Dutch bicycles and stores which cater only to this
ket share, even though these bikes are heavy, have only one gear,
Paris is quite hilly, and there are absolutely perfect modern commuter
bikes at Go Sport which sell for 1/3 the price (I would say that less
than 1/5 of commuter bikes are of this modern type). In my opinion, the
Dutch bike is part of the Paris "pretentious package" that people
immigrating from the provinces often have.
A most interesting phenomenon are young women who ride famous racing
frames transformed into commuter bikes. I am now taking pictures of
these bicycles, and will post them here at some point. So far, I have
seen the following names: Petit Breton, Raphael Geminiani, Anquetil,
Poulidor, Roger Riviere, Stablinsky. Thus far, none of the riders had
any idea of who the person named on their bike was.
So, high end bicycles probably make up a minute percentage of the
Paris ket. As soon as you get about 10km from Paris, you find very
good bike shops, as I noted previously.
4. There is also a crisis for bike shops, in particular, I had a long
conversation with the owner of the Chalons-en-Champagne (180km from
Paris) bike shop, who is 60 years old and who told me that he was
trying to discourage his son from taking over the business because of
the difficulties he was having. As an example of what they face, a Look
frame costs less in the US than in France, even though it is made here,
so internet and large chains like Go Sport are making it difficult for
local bike shops.
5. This is not too relevant, but it seems to me that the bicycle
culture among French recreational fitness riders (equivalent of masters
fatties) is to get the latest trick equipment, there is very little
retro culture (though I just found out that there is one retro
cyclosportive in Italy). If you want a frame pump, an old style wool
jersey, steel frame, or even a regular (non-aero) spoke, then you
will be out of luck in any French bike shop, though such items are
available in good US and Canadian stores.
As an amusing example, I recently saw one of the 80+ years old riders
at Vincennes riding a brand new Kuota Khan bicycle with all the best
equipment. He also "dropped" the large peloton which wasn't going too
fast, but that still seems pretty good for that age range. Of course,
that example seems like a good thing. It made me wonder what my new
bike would be like in 30 years.
-ilan
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> Speaking of France, I've been reading your posts with great interest, and
> just have to believe that there's got to be room in Paris for a shop with
> some degree of customer service and some amount of respect for what the
> customer would like, rather than what the shop thinks they should have. I
> even showed your post to Bruno, our service manager in our Redwood City
> location, who is originally from France and would like to return. I told him
> that he ought to look into what it costs to rent in Paris, and figure out if
> he could make a go of things.
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Date: 22 Dec 2006 07:01:57
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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ilan wrote:
> 3. As I was saying, the chains Go Sport and Decathlon are a good
> Parisian alternative to bike shops.
Yeah, I've pretty much stopped going to Paris bike shops and I just go to
DKT and Go. They ignore me just like a regular bike shop but at least they
don't ignore me with an attitude.
> visit to Cycle Laurent, I went to the nearby Go Sport bicycle repair
> shop (not the main Republique store, but an annex) and they were
> extremely pleasant and helpful, they gave me an empty cardboard box to
> store my bike, and also gave me (free of charge) wedges for the
> dropouts.
Was that the place on Richard Lenoir? I'll try them next time I need a
box. I tried getting one from DKT but they break them down and fold them
immediately (and the security guard gave me a hassle about walking out
with an empty folded cardboard box).
> 5. This is not too relevant, but it seems to me that the bicycle
> culture among French recreational fitness riders (equivalent of masters
> fatties) is to get the latest trick equipment, there is very little
> retro culture (though I just found out that there is one retro
> cyclosportive in Italy). If you want a frame pump, an old style wool
> jersey, steel frame, or even a regular (non-aero) spoke, then you
> will be out of luck in any French bike shop, though such items are
> available in good US and Canadian stores.
This worries me a bit. I'm tired of schlepping my bike back-and-forth so
this year I'm going to buy a bike and keep it in Paris. I don't have
anything against the latest trick bikes but I'm not interested in having
something that's built up with parts that may be hard to find in a couple
of years.
> As an amusing example, I recently saw one of the 80+ years old riders
> at Vincennes riding a brand new Kuota Khan bicycle with all the best
> equipment.
You been feeding peanuts to the crows?
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Date: 21 Dec 2006 09:00:05
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
On 20 Dec 2006 10:37:47 -0800, ilan wrote:
> highlights are the absolutely awful bike shops. I had previously
> thought the worst of the lot was Cycle Laurent.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ewoud/cycling/cl.jpg
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 21 Dec 2006 14:48:57
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
Don't know it but somebody rates Vélo & Oxygen
see http://www.passionveloblog.com/archive-12-06-2006.html
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 18:03:36
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
Howard Kveck wrote:
>
> Well, Wheelsmith is gone. I never really went to PAB much in the past, so I can't
> relate to what you're saying. But they're a pretty good shop at the moment.
> Friendly, knowledgeable people, good mechanics (if you need that) and generally a
> lot of good product. Ask for Adam or Rudy...
My favourite Wheelsmith moment: One of my dropouts got bent and was
unusable, so I went to Wheelsmith to get it fixed. They told me that it
would only be ready the following week, and maintained that position
even when I told them that I had a race that weekend and they were a
sponsor for my club (I had all the relevant documentation). I went to
PAB and they fixed it in 15 minutes, while I waited.
-ilan
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 17:24:35
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 20 Dec 2006 15:58:00 -0800, "ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically,
> >the only thing
> >that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at
> >least for bike riding.
>
> Yeah, I'm in NYC. Here's a recent bike shop discussion on our racing
> discussion site
> http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=1160
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
Well, I feel for you, though it seems the intellectual level of NYC
riders seems way higher than anything over here. I once went to a NYC
bike shop, which was near 14th street. I don't know about the bikes,
but that's where I got my first pair of Vans, before I saw Sean Penn
wearing them in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, so a looong time ago...
Just to give you some more insight into the nature of French bike
shops, I had to go to California to replace my broken Zefal HP Frame
pump (which is French!!!), since pretty much every bike shop carries it
over there. I have never seen it stocked here (though I did see another
person riding with one last week), and the stores where I inquired
about it all told me that I should really get a mini pump. To seal my
popularity with the locals, the French rec.sport.cyclisme guys totally
flamed me when I declared that I refuse to lend my frame pump to
mini-pump people who flat.
Speaking of California, things have gotten so bad, I've even started
dreaming of going to Palo Alto BIcycles. In my dream, I go there after
being annoyed by Wheelsmith, which is a fairly realistic recreation of
times past.
-ilan
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 21:07:54
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
> Speaking of California, things have gotten so bad, I've even started
> dreaming of going to Palo Alto BIcycles. In my dream, I go there after
> being annoyed by Wheelsmith, which is a fairly realistic recreation of
> times past.
Speaking of France, I've been reading your posts with great interest, and
just have to believe that there's got to be room in Paris for a shop with
some degree of customer service and some amount of respect for what the
customer would like, rather than what the shop thinks they should have. I
even showed your post to Bruno, our service manager in our Redwood City
location, who is originally from France and would like to return. I told him
that he ought to look into what it costs to rent in Paris, and figure out if
he could make a go of things.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1166664275.879985.289770@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On 20 Dec 2006 15:58:00 -0800, "ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically,
>> >the only thing
>> >that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at
>> >least for bike riding.
>>
>> Yeah, I'm in NYC. Here's a recent bike shop discussion on our racing
>> discussion site
>> http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=1160
>> --
>> JT
>> ****************************
>> Remove "remove" to reply
>> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
>> ****************************
>
> Well, I feel for you, though it seems the intellectual level of NYC
> riders seems way higher than anything over here. I once went to a NYC
> bike shop, which was near 14th street. I don't know about the bikes,
> but that's where I got my first pair of Vans, before I saw Sean Penn
> wearing them in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, so a looong time ago...
>
> Just to give you some more insight into the nature of French bike
> shops, I had to go to California to replace my broken Zefal HP Frame
> pump (which is French!!!), since pretty much every bike shop carries it
> over there. I have never seen it stocked here (though I did see another
> person riding with one last week), and the stores where I inquired
> about it all told me that I should really get a mini pump. To seal my
> popularity with the locals, the French rec.sport.cyclisme guys totally
> flamed me when I declared that I refuse to lend my frame pump to
> mini-pump people who flat.
>
> Speaking of California, things have gotten so bad, I've even started
> dreaming of going to Palo Alto BIcycles. In my dream, I go there after
> being annoyed by Wheelsmith, which is a fairly realistic recreation of
> times past.
>
> -ilan
>
|
| | | |
Date: 21 Dec 2006 10:49:26
From: matabala
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:LEoih.1346$x67.1176@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>
> Speaking of France, I've been reading your posts with great interest, and
> just have to believe that there's got to be room in Paris for a shop with
> some degree of customer service and some amount of respect for what the
> customer would like, rather than what the shop thinks they should have. I
> even showed your post to Bruno, our service manager in our Redwood City
> location, who is originally from France and would like to return. I told
> him that he ought to look into what it costs to rent in Paris, and figure
> out if he could make a go of things.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
As for most things French, the US point of view isn't the best place to
start. What's the point of Mr. Ilan going on and on about Paris bike shops?
Doesn't he know not to confuse Paris AND the rest of France? Especially
inner-muros Paris, the heart of the very centralized French republic. Paris
is a city of government, glamour, fashion, culture, luxury items, urban
sophistication and TOURISM. The last being reasonably tolerated by the
locals because of the massive amounts of money it injects into their
economy. Millions of foreigners go to Paris to see the Louvre NOT to try
out their new Lapierre or Look. For that, better off heading into the
country where the roads and roots of French cycling are. A small artisanal
bike-shop in neighborhood Paris is selling baskets, bells, reflectors and
lights, the arsenal of the urban commuter. Just as you'll never come across
a Frenchman who say's "sorry, I don't know" when you ask for directions
(he'd much rather send you to hell knows where than suffer the indignation
of ignorance), the same holds true for the bike-shop salesman or mechanic.
What counts is that he can convince you he APPEARS to know his trade. You
leave the shop thinking you've got the right response (remember caveat
emptor) and he's confident he's upheld his end of the transaction.
|
| | | | |
Date: 21 Dec 2006 13:54:52
From: Bruce Gilbert
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
"matabala" <matabala@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:458a58a2$0$25924$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:LEoih.1346$x67.1176@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
> >
> > Speaking of France, I've been reading your posts with great interest,
and
> > just have to believe that there's got to be room in Paris for a shop
with
> > some degree of customer service and some amount of respect for what the
> > customer would like, rather than what the shop thinks they should have.
I
> > even showed your post to Bruno, our service manager in our Redwood City
> > location, who is originally from France and would like to return. I told
> > him that he ought to look into what it costs to rent in Paris, and
figure
> > out if he could make a go of things.
> >
> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
> >
> As for most things French, the US point of view isn't the best place to
> start. What's the point of Mr. Ilan going on and on about Paris bike
shops?
> Doesn't he know not to confuse Paris AND the rest of France? Especially
> inner-muros Paris, the heart of the very centralized French republic.
Paris
> is a city of government, glamour, fashion, culture, luxury items, urban
> sophistication and TOURISM. The last being reasonably tolerated by the
> locals because of the massive amounts of money it injects into their
> economy. Millions of foreigners go to Paris to see the Louvre NOT to try
> out their new Lapierre or Look. For that, better off heading into the
> country where the roads and roots of French cycling are. A small
artisanal
> bike-shop in neighborhood Paris is selling baskets, bells, reflectors and
> lights, the arsenal of the urban commuter. Just as you'll never come
across
> a Frenchman who say's "sorry, I don't know" when you ask for directions
> (he'd much rather send you to hell knows where than suffer the indignation
> of ignorance), the same holds true for the bike-shop salesman or mechanic.
> What counts is that he can convince you he APPEARS to know his trade. You
> leave the shop thinking you've got the right response (remember caveat
> emptor) and he's confident he's upheld his end of the transaction.
>
>
That is an excellent treatise!
I have relatives crawling around all over France. Here is their answer to
getting good stuff in France. Hit the Paris shops in late August, a day or
two before going home. They haven't sold a damned thing for a month. Offer
to buy a lot of stuff and start negotiating prices. Even with the VAT you
will come out well. If the merchandise is going for export or out of the
country the VAT is refunded at the airport anyway.
Some years ago we literally cleaned out jersey area at Decathlon in Paris.
It was the end of third week of August. Anyone with any resources, brains or
taste was gone for the month long national vacation. They had all of the new
stuff coming in and the racks were still full of jerseys. My cousin
convinced the department manager of the hopelessness of holding out for
retail prices when the crazed Americans could relieve him of the excess
stock, infuse cash and then relieve him of their presence. My cousin was
wearing the new G-D IS CAJUN tee shirt we brought him. That is yet another
primal insult for them. We bought the shirt on Ben Yehuda street in
Jerusalem, another insult to be sure.
We bought 3 suitcases full of jerseys at less than we would pay wholesale in
the states. Plus, they were from France which meant the perceived gift value
to our friends back home was easily magnified. Remember friends, timing is
everything...
How to make snooty French relatives real comfortable in Houston.
Pick them up at Intercontinental Airport. Bypass the house (in SW Houston)
and drive them 60 miles to eat at Joe's Barbeque in Alvin. Joe's serves all
you can eat ribs. Some of them are over 12 inches long. We sit at a huge
table and delight at throwing the ribs to each other when the plate empties.
Our relatives were horrified! It was glorious. We were sitting in shorts and
tee shirts, chewing on giant hunks of brutally dismembered animals, cooked
in smoke. They were still dressed like they stepped off the pages of Vogue.
Ain't nothin' so pretty as a 10 inch barbeque sauce streak on Halston...
See, every culture has their own unique way to enhance the tourist
experience.
Bruce
|
| | | | | |
Date: 22 Dec 2006 09:37:36
From: Bob Martin
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
in 532617 20061221 135452 "Bruce Gilbert" <bhgilbert@hal-pc.org > wrote:
>How to make snooty French relatives real comfortable in Houston.
>Pick them up at Intercontinental Airport. Bypass the house (in SW Houston)
>and drive them 60 miles to eat at Joe's Barbeque in Alvin. Joe's serves all
>you can eat ribs. Some of them are over 12 inches long. We sit at a huge
>table and delight at throwing the ribs to each other when the plate empties.
>Our relatives were horrified! It was glorious. We were sitting in shorts and
>tee shirts, chewing on giant hunks of brutally dismembered animals, cooked
>in smoke. They were still dressed like they stepped off the pages of Vogue.
>Ain't nothin' so pretty as a 10 inch barbeque sauce streak on Halston...
You don't have to be snooty to dislike yob behaviour.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 23 Dec 2006 05:42:14
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
In article <AHNih.8576$1W1.1421@newsfe4-win.ntli.net >,
Bob tin <bob.tin@excite.com > wrote:
> in 532617 20061221 135452 "Bruce Gilbert" <bhgilbert@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>
> >How to make snooty French relatives real comfortable in Houston.
> >Pick them up at Intercontinental Airport. Bypass the house (in SW Houston)
> >and drive them 60 miles to eat at Joe's Barbeque in Alvin. Joe's serves all
> >you can eat ribs. Some of them are over 12 inches long. We sit at a huge
> >table and delight at throwing the ribs to each other when the plate empties.
> >Our relatives were horrified! It was glorious. We were sitting in shorts and
> >tee shirts, chewing on giant hunks of brutally dismembered animals, cooked
> >in smoke. They were still dressed like they stepped off the pages of Vogue.
> >Ain't nothin' so pretty as a 10 inch barbeque sauce streak on Halston...
>
> You don't have to be snooty to dislike yob behaviour.
...but you do to dislike barbeque!
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | | | |
Date: 21 Dec 2006 16:17:14
From: matabala
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
"Bruce Gilbert" <bhgilbert@hal-pc.org > wrote in message
news:Mmwih.1398$yx6.109@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "matabala" <matabala@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:458a58a2$0$25924$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>>
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:LEoih.1346$x67.1176@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>> >
>> > Speaking of France, I've been reading your posts with great interest,
> and
>> > just have to believe that there's got to be room in Paris for a shop
> with
>> > some degree of customer service and some amount of respect for what the
>> > customer would like, rather than what the shop thinks they should have.
> I
>> > even showed your post to Bruno, our service manager in our Redwood City
>> > location, who is originally from France and would like to return. I
>> > told
>> > him that he ought to look into what it costs to rent in Paris, and
> figure
>> > out if he could make a go of things.
>> >
>> > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>> >
>> As for most things French, the US point of view isn't the best place to
>> start. What's the point of Mr. Ilan going on and on about Paris bike
> shops?
>> Doesn't he know not to confuse Paris AND the rest of France? Especially
>> inner-muros Paris, the heart of the very centralized French republic.
> Paris
>> is a city of government, glamour, fashion, culture, luxury items, urban
>> sophistication and TOURISM. The last being reasonably tolerated by the
>> locals because of the massive amounts of money it injects into their
>> economy. Millions of foreigners go to Paris to see the Louvre NOT to try
>> out their new Lapierre or Look. For that, better off heading into the
>> country where the roads and roots of French cycling are. A small
> artisanal
>> bike-shop in neighborhood Paris is selling baskets, bells, reflectors and
>> lights, the arsenal of the urban commuter. Just as you'll never come
> across
>> a Frenchman who say's "sorry, I don't know" when you ask for directions
>> (he'd much rather send you to hell knows where than suffer the
>> indignation
>> of ignorance), the same holds true for the bike-shop salesman or
>> mechanic.
>> What counts is that he can convince you he APPEARS to know his trade.
>> You
>> leave the shop thinking you've got the right response (remember caveat
>> emptor) and he's confident he's upheld his end of the transaction.
>>
>>
> That is an excellent treatise!
> I have relatives crawling around all over France. Here is their answer to
> getting good stuff in France. Hit the Paris shops in late August, a day or
> two before going home. They haven't sold a damned thing for a month. Offer
> to buy a lot of stuff and start negotiating prices. Even with the VAT you
> will come out well. If the merchandise is going for export or out of the
> country the VAT is refunded at the airport anyway.
>
> Some years ago we literally cleaned out jersey area at Decathlon in Paris.
> It was the end of third week of August. Anyone with any resources, brains
> or
> taste was gone for the month long national vacation. They had all of the
> new
> stuff coming in and the racks were still full of jerseys. My cousin
> convinced the department manager of the hopelessness of holding out for
> retail prices when the crazed Americans could relieve him of the excess
> stock, infuse cash and then relieve him of their presence. My cousin was
> wearing the new G-D IS CAJUN tee shirt we brought him. That is yet another
> primal insult for them. We bought the shirt on Ben Yehuda street in
> Jerusalem, another insult to be sure.
>
> We bought 3 suitcases full of jerseys at less than we would pay wholesale
> in
> the states. Plus, they were from France which meant the perceived gift
> value
> to our friends back home was easily magnified. Remember friends, timing is
> everything...
>
I noticed the same phenomenon in Paris recently. All the big chain sporting
good stores are there with plenty of floor space to fill. Difference being
that the hardcore bike-buying public are out in the provinces. There was a
great selection of stock available often at discount prices. In my neck of
the woods, the same store would have very little of the same stock left
after a week or two. Just another example of the curious French lack of
business acumen. Congrats if you got the salesman to sell you the whole kit
and kaboodle. I could just as easily imagine him coming up with some
official-ese reason for not doing so.
> How to make snooty French relatives real comfortable in Houston.
> Pick them up at Intercontinental Airport. Bypass the house (in SW Houston)
> and drive them 60 miles to eat at Joe's Barbeque in Alvin. Joe's serves
> all
> you can eat ribs. Some of them are over 12 inches long. We sit at a huge
> table and delight at throwing the ribs to each other when the plate
> empties.
> Our relatives were horrified! It was glorious. We were sitting in shorts
> and
> tee shirts, chewing on giant hunks of brutally dismembered animals, cooked
> in smoke. They were still dressed like they stepped off the pages of
> Vogue.
> Ain't nothin' so pretty as a 10 inch barbeque sauce streak on Halston...
>
I'd almost pay to see that!
>
> See, every culture has their own unique way to enhance the tourist
> experience.
>
> Bruce
|
| | |
Date: 20 Dec 2006 17:49:44
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
In article <1166664275.879985.289770@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com >,
"ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I once went to a NYC
> bike shop, which was near 14th street. I don't know about the bikes,
> but that's where I got my first pair of Vans, before I saw Sean Penn
> wearing them in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, so a looong time ago...
Hmm, first set of Vans in '75.
> Speaking of California, things have gotten so bad, I've even started
> dreaming of going to Palo Alto BIcycles. In my dream, I go there after
> being annoyed by Wheelsmith, which is a fairly realistic recreation of
> times past.
Well, Wheelsmith is gone. I never really went to PAB much in the past, so I can't
relate to what you're saying. But they're a pretty good shop at the moment.
Friendly, knowledgeable people, good mechanics (if you need that) and generally a
lot of good product. Ask for Adam or Rudy...
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
| |
Date: 20 Dec 2006 15:58:00
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically,
the only thing
that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at
least for bike riding.
-ilan
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 20 Dec 2006 10:37:47 -0800, "ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Ilan, I miss your cynicism. Come back to the group more often ;-)
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
|
| | |
Date: 20 Dec 2006 19:39:26
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
On 20 Dec 2006 15:58:00 -0800, "ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Thanks, JT! By the way, do you really live in New York City? Basically,
>the only thing
>that keeps me going here in Paris, is that it's better than NYC, at
>least for bike riding.
Yeah, I'm in NYC. Here's a recent bike shop discussion on our racing
discussion site
http://www.nyvelocity.com/content.php?id=1160
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| |
Date: 20 Dec 2006 18:57:34
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
On 20 Dec 2006 10:37:47 -0800, "ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com > wrote:
Ilan, I miss your cynicism. Come back to the group more often ;-)
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| |
Date: 20 Dec 2006 14:49:32
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
RicodJour wrote:
>
> That Paris LBS must have stood for Lazy Bastard Sales. You should find
> and cherish an XLBS (excellent local bike shop).
The Bouticycle St. Honore was actually named "Bike shop of the month"
in one of the French magazines last month.
The owner organises group rides from the shop and in the suburbs on
weekends. In fact,
a couple of the riders were there when I asked my questions and they
all seemed a little
annoyed by my intrusion. As soon as I closed the door, I heard mirthful
laughter, which
was at my expense, no doubt. The only missing element was them asking
for my current
bike, and me answering Ritchey and then being told that Ritchey only
makes components,
not bicycles.
Speaking of which, yet another typical "big city" interaction last week
(the last one of
this type occured in New York City). I was out walking when I saw an
older (so old)
guy on the sidewalk with a pristine all carbon Lapierre. I asked him
whether the carbon
Elite water bottle cages were any good, and he interrupted me by asking
whether I was
a bike rider, and then what bike I had. I told him Ritchey and he asked
"what's that?"
I pointed to his fork, saying, same company as that. "Oh, so you have a
nice
bike", he told me, somewhat annoyed. I then pointed to his seatpost, of
which
only about 5cm was exposed, on a 54cm frame, and said, "not really, but
at least
mine fits me." His angry response was: "This is a custom frame, and I
got it from
Fignon's mechanic!" OK, so I basically said that I doubted that
Lapierre made custom
frames, and that Fignon's mechanic gave him a frame which was way too
big for him,
so he did the only sensible thing and rode away...
As for good bike shops in the Paris area, the farther from Paris the
better, usually.
There is a bike shop not too far from the Eiffel Tower on the rue de
Grenelle,
(about 1km inside the city limits) and which used to be called Carnac
Sport. When I went there in October to try on
Carnac shoes, the salesman got very annoyed when I described them as
"his shoes" since,
according to him,
I had failed to read the name on the store window, which made no
reference to Carnac.
I later did a Yellow Pages search for "Carnac Sport" and that address
came up
immediately, as in my recollection. However, the salesman never said
anything incorrect, and was competent, if unfriendly.
A little further out is a bike shop at the Porte Maillot, about 200m
inside the city limits. They
aren't rude or annoying, they just ignore you, which is just fine if
you want to try on shoes,
because they leave you alone with their whole inventory. One day, I'm
going to go
in there and tell them that the first ever Paris-Roubaix started across
the street from their
store and see what reaction I get. I'll probably need a loud speaker to
get any kind of
reaction.
Once you leave Paris, the congeniality improves makedly. For example,
the bike shop La Gazelle in Boulogne, about 1km from the Paris
city limits. They were quite nice and let me try on shoes, and even
gave me some
used pairs to see how they stretched out. However, they told me that
Shimano road shoes
were incompatible with two hole cleats (e.g., Shimano old style SPD),
which I
had a hard time believing and I found the adapter plate online after a
1 minute internet search, and they also didn't know that Shimano shoes
came in half sizes.
However, the two I used to go to in the Vallee de Chevreuse, about 25km
from Paris,
where I used to live, are very good. The first is Espace Bellouis, in
Gif-sur-Yvette,
which is at the
bottom of the Cote de Gif, which is on the last stage of the Tour about
once every
two years. The owner was Lanterne Rouge of the 1972 Tour, and he is a
very good
mechanic. He is a little shy, as opposed to his rather imposing wife,
who runs the
store. When I mentioned this place to the Look rep, he said: "Oh, Mme.
Bellouis..."
The other store is Cycle Jacky in Villebon-sur-Yvette
http://www.cyclesjacky.fr/
They are much more
modern, and seem to be going more towards mountain biking. I went there
last
Friday when there was a Cannondale event. I met the French Cannondale
rep, who
was very nice. He talked about his trip to the Cannondale factory,
which was evidently
on his only trip to North America. He said it was near Altoona, and he
had some
interesting interactions with the locals, one person asked him if the
roads in
France were paved, so now at least he knows more about the US than they
do
about France.
Anyway, if you're in the Paris area and need to go to a bike shop, I
recommend those
places, and they probably speak English at Cycles Jacky, if that is
necessary....
Oh, and the riding there is also very good (which makes sense).
I should mention that since local bike shops in Paris are
overwhelmingly unpleasant, there
is an acceptable alternative, the two big sports chains Go Sport and
Decathlon. They carry some good equipment, e.g., all the best Michelin
tires, and
their clothing is very good and very inexpensive. Decathlon has
sponsored pro teams,
so you can even get discount pro level equipment on occasion.
-ilan
-ilan
|
| | |
Date: 21 Dec 2006 04:58:23
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
"ilan" <ilanpi@yahoo.com > writes:
> However, the two I used to go to in the Vallee de Chevreuse, about 25km
> from Paris,
> where I used to live, are very good. The first is Espace Bellouis, in
> Gif-sur-Yvette,
> which is at the
> bottom of the Cote de Gif, which is on the last stage of the Tour about
> once every
> two years. The owner was Lanterne Rouge of the 1972 Tour, and he is a
> very good
> mechanic. He is a little shy, as opposed to his rather imposing wife,
> who runs the
> store. When I mentioned this place to the Look rep, he said: "Oh, Mme.
> Bellouis..."
> The other store is Cycle Jacky in Villebon-sur-Yvette
> http://www.cyclesjacky.fr/
> They are much more
> modern, and seem to be going more towards mountain biking. I went there
> last
> Friday when there was a Cannondale event. I met the French Cannondale
> rep, who
Very highly recommended
--
Best Regards
"In all the immense literature about the 1939-1945 war, one may
observe a legend in process of being shaped. Gradually, authentic
memories of the war -- of its boredom, its futility, the sense it gave
of being part of a process of decomposition -- fade in favor of the
legendary version, embodied in Churchill's rhetoric and all the other
narratives by field shals, air shals and admirals, creating the
same impression of a titanic and forever memorable struggle in defense
of civilization. In fact, of course, the war's ostensible aims -- the
defense of a defunct Empire, a spent Revolution, and bogus Freedoms --
were meaningless in the context of the times. They will probably rate
in the end no more than a footnote on the last page of the last
chapter of the story of our civilization."
- Malcolm Muggeridge, Esquire Magazine, February 1968
|
| |
Date: 20 Dec 2006 11:52:52
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
|
ilan wrote:
> Well, I wanted to share with everyone the joy of being a cyclist in
> Paris, and one of the
> highlights are the absolutely awful bike shops. I had previously
> thought the worst of the lot
> was Cycle Laurent. The last time I went there in September, they told
> me that there was
> no point repainting a steel frame, because it cost around 600 Euros (I
> later called up a local
> frame builder, Levacon, who said he could do it for 200 including
> disassembly and
> assembly), and the time before that, they couldn't replace a broken
> spoke, at least, not with
> what I had because "they" didn't make double butted spokes anymore.
>
> However, I found a new candidate for the absolutely worst bike shop in
> Paris, which is
> the Bouticycle St. Honore, which is just across from the Louvre. This
> shop is new, as
> the owner replaced his former auto parts store with a bike shop two
> years ago, so it
> combines Parisian arrogance with newbie ignorance. The first time I
> went there, I was looking
> for a 17 degree stem, and the owner assured me that he didn't know of
> any such thing, and that if
> I needed one for a new bicycle, then I would surely have to get a
> custom frame. Interestingly,
> he is a Look retailer, and yet he was unaware of the adjustable Look
> ergostem. Which
> leads me to my visit there today, as I was interested in checking out
> details of the new
> Look KG595 frame, as I was unable to figure out everything from the
> Look website. In particular,
> I wanted to know how their new seatpost works, that is, how it is
> adjusted. The owner
> explained that you did not adjust the post by moving it on a seat
> collar, but that the
> integrated seatpost was cut to your approximate size, and then
> elastometers were used to
> obtain the desired height. When I questioned him on the size of the
> elastometers, he said
> that the smallest size was 5mm. I was quite surprised at this because
> it seems to me
> that it is well known that saddle height is rarely adjusted by more
> than 2mm increments.
> He explained that to buy this frame, one needed an in depth postural
> study, and after this
> was accomplished, the saddle height would never be changed. I was
> equally shocked at this,
> because it seemed obvious to me that you might want to vary your saddle
> height (especially
> after I had seen the seemingly unadjustable Project 96 track bikes).
> No, he and
> his assistant assured me, once you reach your adult size, you never
> change saddle height
> ever. I brought up different saddle heights for climbing versus
> cobbles, and also change of
> pedals, and he told me that since this was such a concern to me, it
> wasn't the bike for me.
> I was quite puzzled by this, and after I left the store, I realised
> that it was very common
> to change saddle height because of the different types of saddles on
> the ket which
> have different thicknesses, so what he said couldn't be true, you don't
> invent a new
> technology which is worse than the old one (the new integrated saddle
> has many
> advantages, for example, the seatpost cannot slip down into the frame).
> So I called up
> the Look company directly and talked to one of their representatives.
> He was quite shocked
> at what I told him, in particular, he explained that the adjustement
> was made with carbon
> fiber spacers, not elastometers, and that the smallest spacer was
> 1.25mm (I found this
> information later on their website). He then asked me to name the bike
> shop, and wasn't
> surprised that it was in Paris. In fact, he said that they had a lot of
> trouble finding dealers
> inside big cities, they had none in Milan or Berlin, and that the Paris
> shops were indeed
> quite bad, especially compared to the ones in the near suburbs. It was
> funny, because
> he immediately gave the example of changing saddle height due to
> changing from an
> Arione saddle to an SLR saddle which was thinner, so he confirmed
> everything I suspected
> in even more detail. I think it upset him that the company went to so
> much trouble to
> have a new seatpost system that worked well, and that his dealers gave
> the exact
> opposite impression of the technology. Apart from that, he was the most
> knowledgeable and
> helpful company rep I've ever spoken to in France. As he said, it is
> also true that bike
> shops improve as soon as you get out of the city of Paris. If and when
> I get this frame,
> I will go to one of the excellent bike shops in the Vallee de
> Chevreuse.
That type of experience has to occupy one of the levels of Hell all by
itself. Having a know-it-all clerk tell you that what you're looking
for doesn't exist (even though you have one at home, need another, and
the manufacturer seems to think that they make them), or have the idiot
give explicit advice on how to quickly damage the mechanism.
There has to be a school for that sort of thing. I'd imagine it was
just down the street from The Ministry of Silly Walks.
That Paris LBS must have stood for Lazy Bastard Sales. You should find
and cherish an XLBS (excellent local bike shop).
R
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Date: 20 Dec 2006 17:49:40
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Paris bike shops
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In article <1166644371.959224.210370@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com >,
"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:
> That type of experience has to occupy one of the levels of Hell all by
> itself. Having a know-it-all clerk tell you that what you're looking
> for doesn't exist (even though you have one at home, need another, and
> the manufacturer seems to think that they make them),
My best experience with that was going to a Chevrolet dealer's parts department,
asking to order a door latch mechanism for a 1964 Chevelle and being told that "they
didn't use those then." Oh, so back in the caveman days of '64, you tied the doors
shut with rope (or a belt if you were classy), huh?
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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