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Main
Date: 14 Aug 2007 07:57:36
From: Paul Berg
Subject: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
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~
News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
Bridge Ped-debacle.
Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts of
the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other spans
as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists,
frustrated, left the course on their own.
While event officials said they will consider capping the number of
cyclists in future years, some riders said they won't be back.
"I don't think anyone in my group will ever do it again," said Terri
Taylor, who biked the Bridge Pedal, of which The Oregonian is a sponsor,
for the first time with four friends. "It really was not fun."
Cyclists were queued up, waiting and walking their bikes to cross the
Ross Island Bridge and other spans. "There was an overall level of
annoyance. It just turned into a bad vibe," she said.
In its 12th year, the Bridge Pedal has had overcrowding problems in the
past, said Rick Bauman, the event director. But organizers had never
pulled 1,000 to 1,500 riders off the course. Event sponsors aren't
planning to refund the $25 preregistration fees to those who were not
allowed to complete the ride, he said.
Proceeds from the fees go to expenses -- including $2,300 to Portland to
help defray its estimated $25,000 in police overtime costs; and $26,000
to cover the Oregon Department of Transportation's overtime costs -- and
then to the Bicycle Transportation Alliance and Providence Heart and
Vascular Institute. Bauman didn't have an estimate Monday on total
proceeds from the event.
One of the biggest glitches resulted from restricting cyclists to one
lane on the Ross Island Bridge. Although the ride usually reserves only
one of the four lanes, Bauman said, in past years cyclists have dodged
the traffic cones and commandeered the second lane. To satisfy safety
concerns of TriMet, ODOT and police, race organizers this year put up
yellow tape along the lane, restricting cyclists to a single lane, he
said.
One lane wasn't enough, Bauman conceded, which organizers hadn't
considered.
"I just didn't see that coming," he said.
Worse, it appeared that riders from all three routes -- the 10-bridge,
eight-bridge and six-bridge options -- converged at the bridge around
the same time, said Karla Keller, a maintenance manager for ODOT.
Riders noted that the tape tore off in parts, fluttering into the lane
and narrowing access even more.
The result? Waits that some riders said lasted as long as an hour to
move just several blocks.
"It was kind of like being in rush hour traffic," said Jennifer Jones,
who considered the congestion at this year's Bridge Pedal the worst of
the 10 times she has participated. "That's why you ride a bike -- to
avoid it."
The long delay meant that Michael Comfort of Dundee, who was riding the
route for the fourth time, and his 14-year-old and 20-year-old could not
reach the highlight of their ride -- the Fremont Bridge -- before the
11:30 a.m. cutoff. Even at other bridges, "by the time we went through
everyone was pretty much closing up, nothing was going on up there," he
said. "It was just disappointing."
Police opened a second lane on the Ross Island Bridge around 10:15 a.m.,
said Bauman, but it was too late for hundreds of riders to finish the
course.
"Was it unfortunate? Yes. But it's like a traffic jam on a freeway,"
Bauman said. "Once it starts, it's very hard to fix it."
Police wanted a hard deadline to reopen bridge traffic, Bauman said,
another reason organizers had to clear the course.
Riders also reported a lack of portable toilets in convenient locations
and long lines. Bauman said he heard no complaints and that the ride had
the same number of toilets as always.
He added that there were three accidents that he knew of, and that the
event was a safety success.
It drew more than 20,000 participants, including about 1,000 people who
walked a two-bridge course, up from 18,000 last year. Bauman said
organizers and state and local authorities will meet to discuss ways to
improve the event, and may consider a cap on participants.
Bauman is personally against the idea, saying that he thinks it would
create an "exclusiveness" that he doesn't like. And Jones, despite her
annoyance that she was unable to complete the 10-bridge ride she signed
up for, agreed that the ride should not be limited -- just better
organized.
"I was frustrated as anybody, but I think that there's ways to just make
that better," she said. "Portland's such a bike-friendly city, I would
hate to see that happen."
~
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 20:51:44
From: Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 21, 9:46 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net >
wrote:
> "Jeremy Parker" <JeremyPar...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> > "Lobby Dosser" <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote
>
> > [snip]
>
> >> [Restricted Access
>
> >> Interstate Highways
>
> >> (a) It has been found and determined that the health, safety and
> >> welfare
> >> of the public require that the use of all Interstate highways in
> >> the
>
> > [snip]
>
> >> (c) The use of the aforesaid Interstate Highways by the following
> >> classes of traffic is prohibited unless permission therefor has
> >> been
> >> obtained in advance from the Commissioner for the classes of
> >> traffic
> >> identified in (c)3 or (c)6 below:
> >> 1. Pedestrians;
> >> 2. Animals led, ridden or driven;
> >> 3. Bicycles;]
>
> > And I have a permit to ride my bike on the interstates of New Jersey,
> > although I seem to have mislaid it at the moment. Since I am three
> > thousand miles from New Jersey at the moment, in London England, I
> > won't expend much effort in searching for it right now.
>
> > I got the permit about a quarter of a century ago, I think, but it's
> > good for life.
>
> > Jeremy Parker
>
> I'd rather not even Drive in NJ, never mind cycling!
Too many escaped jungle animals, especially lions chasing giraffes
outside Passaic.
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Date: 21 Aug 2007 20:50:04
From: Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 19, 11:45 am, "Jeremy Parker" <JeremyPar...@compuserve.com >
wrote:
> "Lobby Dosser" <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote
>
> [snip]
>
> > [Restricted Access
>
> > Interstate Highways
>
> > (a) It has been found and determined that the health, safety and
> > welfare
> > of the public require that the use of all Interstate highways in
> > the
>
> [snip]
>
> > (c) The use of the aforesaid Interstate Highways by the following
> > classes of traffic is prohibited unless permission therefor has
> > been
> > obtained in advance from the Commissioner for the classes of
> > traffic
> > identified in (c)3 or (c)6 below:
> > 1. Pedestrians;
> > 2. Animals led, ridden or driven;
> > 3. Bicycles;]
>
> And I have a permit to ride my bike on the interstates of New Jersey,
> although I seem to have mislaid it at the moment. Since I am three
> thousand miles from New Jersey at the moment, in London England, I
> won't expend much effort in searching for it right now.
>
> I got the permit about a quarter of a century ago, I think, but it's
> good for life.
>
> Jeremy Parker
hard to get a bus to Jersey
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Date: 17 Aug 2007 17:31:07
From: Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 17, 6:29 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net >
wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1...@wvu.edu>
> > wrote:
>
> >>Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> >>> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law
> >>> prohibiting bicycles on interstates.
>
> >>Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
> >>allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
> >>alternative route doesn't exist.
>
> > Yeah, I rode several hundred miles on interstates in Nevada, for
> > example. That was a long time ago, but I don't think things have
> > changed.
>
> I205. Non-motorized vehicles prohibited north of West Linn exit.
>
> [Bicyclists are permitted to use the shoulder lane of I-70 in portions of
> Colorado; this is one of the few sections of Interstate Highway where
> non-motorized vehicles are permitted to use the road.]
>
> [Restricted Access
>
> Interstate Highways
>
> (a) It has been found and determined that the health, safety and welfare
> of the public require that the use of all Interstate highways in the
> State of New Jersey be limited to certain classes of traffic.
> (b) The following definitions are furnished to clarify the provisions of
> this rule:
> Commissioner means the Commissioner of the Department of
> Transportation.
> Interstate Highway means, for purposes of this regulation, those
> highways constructed or being constructed within this State and approved
> by the Secretary of Transportation of the United States as an official
> portion of the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways
> pursuant to the provisions of Title 23, "Highways" of the United States
> Code, as amended. The traveled way and all land on both sides of the
> travelled way extending to an abutting owner;s property lines is
> considered part of the Interstate Highway.
> Pedestrian means, for purposes of this regulation, persons walking,
> running, standing, sitting, or any form of loitering. (Individuals
> involved in Department approved Adopt-A-Highway Programs, Inmate Litter
> Pick-up Programs, or any other Department approved program are not
> considered pedestrians, for purposes of this rule.)
> (c) The use of the aforesaid Interstate Highways by the following
> classes of traffic is prohibited unless permission therefor has been
> obtained in advance from the Commissioner for the classes of traffic
> identified in (c)3 or (c)6 below:
> 1. Pedestrians;
> 2. Animals led, ridden or driven;
> 3. Bicycles;]
>
> And others too numerous to bother with.
Wait till the next holocaust when pet food is a delicacy.
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Date: 17 Aug 2007 10:01:49
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 17, 5:17 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> "John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187276611.276781.151170@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I don't get your diatribe at all.
>
> Not surprising since you obviously don't think logically.
>
> You don't live here. You immediately shot off your mouth on some
> poof-piece article in the daily paper here that while it reported
> correct facts (riders being denied participation) it made outlandish
> and false conclusions about why those riders didn't get to participate,
> blaming the city, sponsors, organizers, basically everyone connected
> to it that was NOT an actual bike rider.
>
> As I said, the truth was that the riders that knew what they were
> doing had a great time. A small percentage of riders that showed
> up did NOT know what they were doing, and shouldn't have been
> there in the first place. These were the ones that had problems.
>
> > In your mind this has become some
> > sort of lopsided confrontation between bike riders who have no rights
> > but are attempting to usurp the natural god-given rights of automobile
> > drivers.
>
> In your mind ANYONE on a bicycle can do no wrong, simply because
> they are on a bicycle. Your probably one of those bike riders who
> excuse bicyclists that go through red stop lights at intersections.
>
> You have no concept that there's incompetent bicycle riders out there
> who cause problems for themselves and for the rest of the traffic on
> the road, just as there are incompetent car drivers that cause problems
> for themselves and for the rest of the traffic on the road.
>
> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law prohibiting
> bicycles on interstates. It must really bug the fuck out of you that
> bicyclists are not allowed on interstate highways while cars and
> motorcycles are. Live with it - bicyclists do NOT have natural
> god-given rights to be on an Interstate highway. Cars DO. Anytime
> an event like the bridge pedal happens that puts bicyclists on an
> Interstate, the bicyclists must ask the car drivers for permission to
> be there. Live with it. It's the law.
>
> > You are beginning to concern me because you seem to feel
> > threatened by bike riders that are somehow persecuting car drivers in
> > a manner that no others can see.
>
> It's amazing how you create these air-castles to avoid facing the
> truth that not all bicyclists should be on the road riding around
> where they please. Some are not competent, and should not
> be on anything more serious than a side road with very little
> traffic.
>
> > It's really simple my friend. Portland wants to host a big big bike
> > ride one day a year.
>
> Portland hosts SEVERAL big bike rides during the year.
>
> > For Portland to successfully stage a big big
> > bike ride with thousands of bike riders of all abilities
>
> The bridge pedal is NOT for bike riders of all abilities. Oh sure
> the sponsors may claim it is but one look at the route and distance
> shows that clearly it is not. The sponsors just want to get as many
> signups as possible because they are a bunch of greedy fuckers
> like someone else posted and will do and say anything to get them.
>
> > they will
> > have to dedicate some streets to bike riders for one day.
>
> No, they won't. They routinely dedicate streets for PARTIAL
> days for bike rides, marathons, parades, you name it. Of which there are
> a steady stream of throughout the year. But there is not one event
> where some streets are dedicated the entire day. The only people
> who can get a street turned down for a full day are construction
> people who are building something.
>
> > And yes a
> > few car drivers in Portland will have to just suck it up for one day
> > and not drive certain streets while the big big bike ride is
> > underway.
>
> No they don't because there is not any events that consume certain
> streets for one full day in the city. And there are some good reasons
> that this is the case. Such as Portland does not have multiple freeways
> in and out of the city that run in parallel, nor are there sufficient
> bypasses
> for diverted traffic for it to last all day long.
>
> > You have apparently done extensive research into what drinks are "gay"
> > and "not gay". Please tell us what kinds of drinks are preferred by
> > gay people.
>
> Gay drinks are not what gay people drink necessarily. You misunderstand
> the use of the term. Gay drinks are drinks that when a normal hetrosexual
> man holds one and drinks it he looks like a flaming faggot, as well as a
> complete nincompoop. Of course, not all gay males wish to act like flaming
> faggots, in fact most do not.
>
> Any drink that costs 6 times more than what it should is
> gay. That includes bottled water, (water can be got out of any kitchen
> tap for a few cents) lattes which are nothing more than a few cents worth
> of black coffee and a few cents worth of cream, wine coolers which
> are nothing more than the waste byproducts of wine production that used
> to be thrown away, packaged with some artificial flavor and color. I could
> go on and on but I think you get the idea. Oh and by the way you can
> add stuff like clove cigarettes as other gay stuff.
>
> Ted
Lad, I think it is time for you to cool off with a grande latte with
extra whipped cream. Yeah, lots of extra whipped cream so you can
slowly lick it off with a big shit eating grin on your face.
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| |
Date: 17 Aug 2007 09:01:15
From: Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 17, 3:17 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> Any drink that costs 6 times more than what it should is
> gay. That includes bottled water, (water can be got out of any kitchen
> tap for a few cents) lattes which are nothing more than a few cents worth
> of black coffee and a few cents worth of cream, wine coolers which
> are nothing more than the waste byproducts of wine production that used
> to be thrown away, packaged with some artificial flavor and color. I could
> go on and on but I think you get the idea. Oh and by the way you can
> add stuff like clove cigarettes as other gay stuff.
>
> Ted
"Wine coolers" are malt beverages (LIKE SCHLITZ in a way) with higher
alcohol content and flavoring.
Teddy, are you queer? No big shit, just own up if you're going to
define it like a professor.
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Date: 16 Aug 2007 08:03:31
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 16, 5:53 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> "John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187217294.743998.199100@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > > it is illegal for bicycles to be on a federal Interstate to begin with.
> The
> > > Bridge
> > > Pedal takes place only by the consent of the DRIVERS and their CARS who
> > > are the only LEGALLY authorized vehicles on that bridge. Bikers DO NOT
> > > have the right to be on that bridge ONLY CARS, and they are there
> because
> > > WE LET THEM. Therefore it is extremely rude of them to try to drag the
> > > event out all day long, which is what a few whiner bikers seem to be
> trying
> > > to do.
>
> > Utter nonsense. Bikes have an equal on that bridge right if the city
> > fathers say so and they did.
>
> Yes, until 11:30am. If the city fathers were to try to shut that bridge
> down
> for the entire day I would think the federal highway adminstration would
> probably take a dim view of Portland shutting down the major Interstate
> between Seattle and San Francisco. Not that the city residents would
> stand for it.
>
> > > as car traffic. Most east side streets in Portland are 2 way not 1 way
> > > making
> > > a street shutdown have a lot more logistical problems.
>
> > Simple - you pick a few streets, give advance notice so people can
> > make alternate plans and then CLOSE THEM for the duration of the
> > race. It is not complex.
>
> I think you need to look at a map of the city and of the route before
> you make yourself look more silly.
>
>
>
> > On a saturday the disruption would be tolerable. Heck, quit whining,
> > get off "lard-ass" and enjoy a bike ride!
>
> That is news to the city fathers who only permit such things on Sunday
> mornings. (ie: a number of marathons are scheduled during the year
> that use city streets, also Sunday morning)
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I respectfully submit that as you clearly don't live here you don't have
> any
> > > idea what the hell your talking about.
>
> > Portland must feel that this race is important otherwise they would
> > have stopped it long ago. The solution is simple - some car drivers
> > are going to have give way for one morning out of 365 to make it work
> > properly.
>
> Very few people work Sunday morning.
>
> > It is really no big deal - just grab another latte and read
> > the paper. Or make some plans that don't take you downtown. The
> > race is not being run for you benefit my friend. In NYC they give
> > advance notice and close down certain roadways and bridges. Same
> > thing can be easily done in Portland.
>
> There's a lot more roads in NYC and alternate routes. Not so in Portland.
> I'm afraid you don't realize how small Portland is compared to NYC.
>
> Bicyclists do not pay road taxes (no fuel, you see) and someone who has
> no car and only bikes basically pays nothing at all to support the road.
> Granted, bikes have minimal wear on the road. However the roads must
> be maintained due to weather damage and bikers don't pay for this.
>
> Bicyclists are tolerated on the roads because although they do not pay
> for upkeep, they reduce car traffic and thus congestion - this benefit is
> offset by the cost of the rest of the car drivers of maintaining the road
> for
> the bicyclists. So it is somewhat an even trade for most roads. This
> tradeoff does not exist for Interstate highways because Interstates are
> not supposed to be congested, ever. (the fact that some are is simply
> due to cities and states abrogating their responsibility to provide adequate
> parallel roads to keep the freeways clear) So that is why bicycles aren't
> allowed (this is a federal not state government rule) on Interstates.
>
> This tradeoff does not give bicyclists the right to shut down a road to
> cars, any more than it gives cars the right to shut down the roads to
> bikes. That is why state highways (at least in Oregon) and all other
> state roads do not prohibit bicycles on the road. To shut down roads
> for this kind of event, the organizers REQUEST for the road to be
> closed. It is not guarenteed that they will get a yes answer.
>
> As for the race not being run for my benefit, your wrong on that as well.
> One of the main charities is a medical charity (Providence Heart and
> Vascular Institute)
> that buys automatic defibrillators and donates them to public gathering
> places. So that if someone like me has a heart attack I might get
> zapped back to life with one. I also cannot stand lattes, what a gay drink
> that is. I take my coffee black with no sugar.
>
> Ted
I don't get your diatribe at all. In your mind this has become some
sort of lopsided confrontation between bike riders who have no rights
but are attempting to usurp the natural god-given rights of automobile
drivers. You are beginning to concern me because you seem to feel
threatened by bike riders that are somehow persecuting car drivers in
a manner that no others can see.
It's really simple my friend. Portland wants to host a big big bike
ride one day a year. For Portland to successfully stage a big big
bike ride with thousands of bike riders of all abilities they will
have to dedicate some streets to bike riders for one day. And yes a
few car drivers in Portland will have to just suck it up for one day
and not drive certain streets while the big big bike ride is
underway. Consider it an opportunity to either get out and ride or
enjoy an extra latte.
You have apparently done extensive research into what drinks are "gay"
and "not gay". Please tell us what kinds of drinks are preferred by
gay people. And just so that you realize it, black coffee and even
blacker espresso is served in coffee bars frequented by all manner of
people, gay, straight, latin, english, french, tall, short, etc., etc.
|
| | |
Date: 17 Aug 2007 02:17:59
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com > wrote in message
news:1187276611.276781.151170@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> I don't get your diatribe at all.
Not surprising since you obviously don't think logically.
You don't live here. You immediately shot off your mouth on some
poof-piece article in the daily paper here that while it reported
correct facts (riders being denied participation) it made outlandish
and false conclusions about why those riders didn't get to participate,
blaming the city, sponsors, organizers, basically everyone connected
to it that was NOT an actual bike rider.
As I said, the truth was that the riders that knew what they were
doing had a great time. A small percentage of riders that showed
up did NOT know what they were doing, and shouldn't have been
there in the first place. These were the ones that had problems.
> In your mind this has become some
> sort of lopsided confrontation between bike riders who have no rights
> but are attempting to usurp the natural god-given rights of automobile
> drivers.
In your mind ANYONE on a bicycle can do no wrong, simply because
they are on a bicycle. Your probably one of those bike riders who
excuse bicyclists that go through red stop lights at intersections.
You have no concept that there's incompetent bicycle riders out there
who cause problems for themselves and for the rest of the traffic on
the road, just as there are incompetent car drivers that cause problems
for themselves and for the rest of the traffic on the road.
And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law prohibiting
bicycles on interstates. It must really bug the fuck out of you that
bicyclists are not allowed on interstate highways while cars and
motorcycles are. Live with it - bicyclists do NOT have natural
god-given rights to be on an Interstate highway. Cars DO. Anytime
an event like the bridge pedal happens that puts bicyclists on an
Interstate, the bicyclists must ask the car drivers for permission to
be there. Live with it. It's the law.
> You are beginning to concern me because you seem to feel
> threatened by bike riders that are somehow persecuting car drivers in
> a manner that no others can see.
>
It's amazing how you create these air-castles to avoid facing the
truth that not all bicyclists should be on the road riding around
where they please. Some are not competent, and should not
be on anything more serious than a side road with very little
traffic.
> It's really simple my friend. Portland wants to host a big big bike
> ride one day a year.
Portland hosts SEVERAL big bike rides during the year.
> For Portland to successfully stage a big big
> bike ride with thousands of bike riders of all abilities
The bridge pedal is NOT for bike riders of all abilities. Oh sure
the sponsors may claim it is but one look at the route and distance
shows that clearly it is not. The sponsors just want to get as many
signups as possible because they are a bunch of greedy fuckers
like someone else posted and will do and say anything to get them.
> they will
> have to dedicate some streets to bike riders for one day.
No, they won't. They routinely dedicate streets for PARTIAL
days for bike rides, marathons, parades, you name it. Of which there are
a steady stream of throughout the year. But there is not one event
where some streets are dedicated the entire day. The only people
who can get a street turned down for a full day are construction
people who are building something.
> And yes a
> few car drivers in Portland will have to just suck it up for one day
> and not drive certain streets while the big big bike ride is
> underway.
No they don't because there is not any events that consume certain
streets for one full day in the city. And there are some good reasons
that this is the case. Such as Portland does not have multiple freeways
in and out of the city that run in parallel, nor are there sufficient
bypasses
for diverted traffic for it to last all day long.
> You have apparently done extensive research into what drinks are "gay"
> and "not gay". Please tell us what kinds of drinks are preferred by
> gay people.
Gay drinks are not what gay people drink necessarily. You misunderstand
the use of the term. Gay drinks are drinks that when a normal hetrosexual
man holds one and drinks it he looks like a flaming faggot, as well as a
complete nincompoop. Of course, not all gay males wish to act like flaming
faggots, in fact most do not.
Any drink that costs 6 times more than what it should is
gay. That includes bottled water, (water can be got out of any kitchen
tap for a few cents) lattes which are nothing more than a few cents worth
of black coffee and a few cents worth of cream, wine coolers which
are nothing more than the waste byproducts of wine production that used
to be thrown away, packaged with some artificial flavor and color. I could
go on and on but I think you get the idea. Oh and by the way you can
add stuff like clove cigarettes as other gay stuff.
Ted
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13
From: Arif Khokar
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law prohibiting
> bicycles on interstates.
Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
alternative route doesn't exist.
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Aug 2007 18:20:26
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu >
wrote:
>Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law prohibiting
>> bicycles on interstates.
>
>Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
>allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
>alternative route doesn't exist.
Yeah, I rode several hundred miles on interstates in Nevada, for
example. That was a long time ago, but I don't think things have
changed.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 00:29:05
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>
>>> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law
>>> prohibiting bicycles on interstates.
>>
>>Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
>>allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
>>alternative route doesn't exist.
>
> Yeah, I rode several hundred miles on interstates in Nevada, for
> example. That was a long time ago, but I don't think things have
> changed.
I205. Non-motorized vehicles prohibited north of West Linn exit.
[Bicyclists are permitted to use the shoulder lane of I-70 in portions of
Colorado; this is one of the few sections of Interstate Highway where
non-motorized vehicles are permitted to use the road.]
[Restricted Access
Interstate Highways
(a) It has been found and determined that the health, safety and welfare
of the public require that the use of all Interstate highways in the
State of New Jersey be limited to certain classes of traffic.
(b) The following definitions are furnished to clarify the provisions of
this rule:
Commissioner means the Commissioner of the Department of
Transportation.
Interstate Highway means, for purposes of this regulation, those
highways constructed or being constructed within this State and approved
by the Secretary of Transportation of the United States as an official
portion of the National System of Interstate and Defense Highways
pursuant to the provisions of Title 23, "Highways" of the United States
Code, as amended. The traveled way and all land on both sides of the
travelled way extending to an abutting owner;s property lines is
considered part of the Interstate Highway.
Pedestrian means, for purposes of this regulation, persons walking,
running, standing, sitting, or any form of loitering. (Individuals
involved in Department approved Adopt-A-Highway Programs, Inmate Litter
Pick-up Programs, or any other Department approved program are not
considered pedestrians, for purposes of this rule.)
(c) The use of the aforesaid Interstate Highways by the following
classes of traffic is prohibited unless permission therefor has been
obtained in advance from the Commissioner for the classes of traffic
identified in (c)3 or (c)6 below:
1. Pedestrians;
2. Animals led, ridden or driven;
3. Bicycles;]
And others too numerous to bother with.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 18:45:11
From: Jeremy Parker
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"Lobby Dosser" <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote
[snip]
> [Restricted Access
>
> Interstate Highways
>
> (a) It has been found and determined that the health, safety and
> welfare
> of the public require that the use of all Interstate highways in
> the
[snip]
> (c) The use of the aforesaid Interstate Highways by the following
> classes of traffic is prohibited unless permission therefor has
> been
> obtained in advance from the Commissioner for the classes of
> traffic
> identified in (c)3 or (c)6 below:
> 1. Pedestrians;
> 2. Animals led, ridden or driven;
> 3. Bicycles;]
And I have a permit to ride my bike on the interstates of New Jersey,
although I seem to have mislaid it at the moment. Since I am three
thousand miles from New Jersey at the moment, in London England, I
won't expend much effort in searching for it right now.
I got the permit about a quarter of a century ago, I think, but it's
good for life.
Jeremy Parker
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2007 03:46:07
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"Jeremy Parker" <JeremyParker@compuserve.com > wrote:
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote
>
> [snip]
>
>> [Restricted Access
>>
>> Interstate Highways
>>
>> (a) It has been found and determined that the health, safety and
>> welfare
>> of the public require that the use of all Interstate highways in
>> the
>
> [snip]
>
>> (c) The use of the aforesaid Interstate Highways by the following
>> classes of traffic is prohibited unless permission therefor has
>> been
>> obtained in advance from the Commissioner for the classes of
>> traffic
>> identified in (c)3 or (c)6 below:
>> 1. Pedestrians;
>> 2. Animals led, ridden or driven;
>> 3. Bicycles;]
>
> And I have a permit to ride my bike on the interstates of New Jersey,
> although I seem to have mislaid it at the moment. Since I am three
> thousand miles from New Jersey at the moment, in London England, I
> won't expend much effort in searching for it right now.
>
> I got the permit about a quarter of a century ago, I think, but it's
> good for life.
>
> Jeremy Parker
>
>
>
I'd rather not even Drive in NJ, never mind cycling!
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 16:11:18
From: Arif Khokar
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
>> wrote:
>>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>>>> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law
>>>> prohibiting bicycles on interstates.
>>> Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
>>> allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
>>> alternative route doesn't exist.
> I205. Non-motorized vehicles prohibited north of West Linn exit.
That's a state law, not a federal law. In any case, I know many (most?)
states have laws that prohibit certain classes of vehicles from
interstates and other limited access highways. The fact that some
states allow bicycles on interstates would seem to indicate that there
is no federal law regarding the operation of bicycles on interstates.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 18 Aug 2007 09:33:53
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:11:18 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu >
wrote:
>Lobby Dosser wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
>>>>> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law
>>>>> prohibiting bicycles on interstates.
>
>>>> Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
>>>> allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
>>>> alternative route doesn't exist.
>
>> I205. Non-motorized vehicles prohibited north of West Linn exit.
>
>That's a state law, not a federal law. In any case, I know many (most?)
>states have laws that prohibit certain classes of vehicles from
>interstates and other limited access highways. The fact that some
>states allow bicycles on interstates would seem to indicate that there
>is no federal law regarding the operation of bicycles on interstates.
The traffic laws pertaining to Interstates are, by and large, under
State control -- not federal.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 14:15:26
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"Don Homuth" <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote in message
news:mq7ec397b1rgu8o7npkrf8sjat73s6876g@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:11:18 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >Lobby Dosser wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:38:13 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >
> >>>>> And as for the rest, I notice you are ignoring the federal law
> >>>>> prohibiting bicycles on interstates.
> >
> >>>> Could you cite this law, because I'm quite sure that cyclists are
> >>>> allowed to ride on interstates in some locations where a suitable
> >>>> alternative route doesn't exist.
> >
> >> I205. Non-motorized vehicles prohibited north of West Linn exit.
> >
> >That's a state law, not a federal law. In any case, I know many (most?)
> >states have laws that prohibit certain classes of vehicles from
> >interstates and other limited access highways. The fact that some
> >states allow bicycles on interstates would seem to indicate that there
> >is no federal law regarding the operation of bicycles on interstates.
>
> The traffic laws pertaining to Interstates are, by and large, under
> State control -- not federal.
That is an extreme simplification of a complex issue.
Interstate highways are required (at least new construction - I'll get
to that in a minute) to follow standards set by AASHTO. The
federal government enforces this by threatening to withhold federal
highway funds if a state does not pass laws that they want. (ie:
speed limit laws, seatbelt, etc.)
The AASHTO guidelines are designed to MAXIMIZE TRAFFIC
THROUGHPUT. On Interstates that have broad shoulders, a
bicyclist does not present an impediment to traffic. But many Interstates
in downtown areas (such as I-5 in Portland) do NOT have adequate
shoulders. The state law dictates that a bicyclist must take the traffic
lane when a shoulder or sidewalk isn't available. This would put usage
of the Interstate in direct conflict with the whole point of the AASHTO
guidelines. Thus the federal government has dictated to the states that
in these cases, they are to ban non-motorized vehicle traffic on the
Interstate, or risk losing highway funds. This is also why state laws
requiring bike lanes are not applied to Interstates - the Feds wouldn't
allow it.
That is also why some states do not disallow non-motorized vehicles -
because the Interstates in them are young, meet all AASHTO
guidelines (including those dictating a wide shoulder) and bicycle
traffic would not conflict. Arizona is one of these states. More
discussion on this can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-motorized_vehicle_access_on_freeways
Anyway, sorry I cannot point to a specific law you bikers can write to
your congresscritter to get revoked or use as the martyers law on your
flags. You need to understand a great many federal regulations these
days are done via proxy- the feds want something so they "suggest" to
the states it would be a good idea for the state to make a law about it,
and if the state refuses the feds will make it very uncomfortable for the
state.
Ted
|
| |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 06:53:35
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 16, 3:53 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> "John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187217294.743998.199100@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > > it is illegal for bicycles to be on a federal Interstate to begin with.
> The
> > > Bridge
> > > Pedal takes place only by the consent of the DRIVERS and their CARS who
> > > are the only LEGALLY authorized vehicles on that bridge. Bikers DO NOT
> > > have the right to be on that bridge ONLY CARS, and they are there
> because
> > > WE LET THEM. Therefore it is extremely rude of them to try to drag the
> > > event out all day long, which is what a few whiner bikers seem to be
> trying
> > > to do.
>
> > Utter nonsense. Bikes have an equal on that bridge right if the city
> > fathers say so and they did.
>
> Yes, until 11:30am. If the city fathers were to try to shut that bridge
> down
> for the entire day I would think the federal highway adminstration would
> probably take a dim view of Portland shutting down the major Interstate
> between Seattle and San Francisco. Not that the city residents would
> stand for it.
>
> > > as car traffic. Most east side streets in Portland are 2 way not 1 way
> > > making
> > > a street shutdown have a lot more logistical problems.
>
> > Simple - you pick a few streets, give advance notice so people can
> > make alternate plans and then CLOSE THEM for the duration of the
> > race. It is not complex.
>
> I think you need to look at a map of the city and of the route before
> you make yourself look more silly.
>
>
>
> > On a saturday the disruption would be tolerable. Heck, quit whining,
> > get off "lard-ass" and enjoy a bike ride!
>
> That is news to the city fathers who only permit such things on Sunday
> mornings. (ie: a number of marathons are scheduled during the year
> that use city streets, also Sunday morning)
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I respectfully submit that as you clearly don't live here you don't have
> any
> > > idea what the hell your talking about.
>
> > Portland must feel that this race is important otherwise they would
> > have stopped it long ago. The solution is simple - some car drivers
> > are going to have give way for one morning out of 365 to make it work
> > properly.
>
> Very few people work Sunday morning.
>
> > It is really no big deal - just grab another latte and read
> > the paper. Or make some plans that don't take you downtown. The
> > race is not being run for you benefit my friend. In NYC they give
> > advance notice and close down certain roadways and bridges. Same
> > thing can be easily done in Portland.
>
> There's a lot more roads in NYC and alternate routes. Not so in Portland.
> I'm afraid you don't realize how small Portland is compared to NYC.
>
> Bicyclists do not pay road taxes (no fuel, you see) and someone who has
> no car and only bikes basically pays nothing at all to support the road.
> Granted, bikes have minimal wear on the road. However the roads must
> be maintained due to weather damage and bikers don't pay for this.
>
> Bicyclists are tolerated on the roads because although they do not pay
> for upkeep, they reduce car traffic and thus congestion - this benefit is
> offset by the cost of the rest of the car drivers of maintaining the road
> for
> the bicyclists. So it is somewhat an even trade for most roads. This
> tradeoff does not exist for Interstate highways because Interstates are
> not supposed to be congested, ever. (the fact that some are is simply
> due to cities and states abrogating their responsibility to provide adequate
> parallel roads to keep the freeways clear) So that is why bicycles aren't
> allowed (this is a federal not state government rule) on Interstates.
>
> This tradeoff does not give bicyclists the right to shut down a road to
> cars, any more than it gives cars the right to shut down the roads to
> bikes. That is why state highways (at least in Oregon) and all other
> state roads do not prohibit bicycles on the road. To shut down roads
> for this kind of event, the organizers REQUEST for the road to be
> closed. It is not guarenteed that they will get a yes answer.
>
> As for the race not being run for my benefit, your wrong on that as well.
> One of the main charities is a medical charity (Providence Heart and
> Vascular Institute)
> that buys automatic defibrillators and donates them to public gathering
> places. So that if someone like me has a heart attack I might get
> zapped back to life with one. I also cannot stand lattes, what a gay drink
> that is. I take my coffee black with no sugar.
>
> Ted
I'd love to figure where you get all the cyclist-as-nigger stuff.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 18:22:54
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 7:13 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <1187146446.329078.100...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> ,
> Brian Huntley <brian_hunt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>
> > > Nope.
>
> > >http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
>
> > Dang - I was expecting a '73 B210. Now *that* was a stealth vehicle.
>
> I ran around in a 510. Less expensive to run than a BMW.
>
> --
> Michael Press
My cousin had a Lil' Hustler truck. That was neat.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 18:21:00
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 7:12 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net >
wrote:
> Steven <thisjukeboxplays33...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 15, 2:34 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> > Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same
> >> > sports car for thirty years.
>
> >> I've got a knife I've had for more than fifty.
>
> > I've got the same dick I've had for 41 but it gets complicated after
> > that...leave me alone
>
> Well, Isn't That Special!
I built a porch over it, mein friend! Dunlop's disease.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 18:06:44
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 2:34 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net >
wrote:
> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> > Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
> > car for thirty years.
>
> I've got a knife I've had for more than fifty.
I've got the same dick I've had for 41 but it gets complicated after
that...leave me alone
|
| | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 01:12:02
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Steven <thisjukeboxplays33rpm@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Aug 15, 2:34 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>> > Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same
>> > sports car for thirty years.
>>
>> I've got a knife I've had for more than fifty.
>
> I've got the same dick I've had for 41 but it gets complicated after
> that...leave me alone
>
>
Well, Isn't That Special!
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 15:34:54
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 5:09 pm, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> "John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187200354.451459.261930@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > So according to you the solution to the congestion problem must be for
> > everyone to register early and get early start times.
>
> That is correct. Sunrise is about 5 am, and on a Sunday morning in Portland
> the traffic is very light until about 10:30am when it starts getting busy.
> These
> biking rides have a good solid 5 hours of daylight that they can take place
> where
> they are not inconveniencing anyone. It is unfair to the drivers in the
> city for
> a bunch of lard-ass bikers to insist on waiting until 9am to get out of bed
> then amble on down to the ride and drag through the course. You don't seem
> to understand that some of these bridges do not have space at ALL for
> bicycles. In particular the Fremont bridge is an Interstate Highway bridge
> and
> it is illegal for bicycles to be on a federal Interstate to begin with. The
> Bridge
> Pedal takes place only by the consent of the DRIVERS and their CARS who
> are the only LEGALLY authorized vehicles on that bridge. Bikers DO NOT
> have the right to be on that bridge ONLY CARS, and they are there because
> WE LET THEM. Therefore it is extremely rude of them to try to drag the
> event out all day long, which is what a few whiner bikers seem to be trying
> to do.
Utter nonsense. Bikes have an equal on that bridge right if the city
fathers say so and they did.
> And I will point out that the dedicated bike riders UNDERSTAND THIS and they
> ARE NOT THE PROBLEM as they get out there, do their thing, then get
> the hell out.
>
> > Don't forget that this is not a road race. Bike clubs provide plenty
> > of that kind of competition. It is first a benefit ride and second a
> > fun ride for all comers. It was not well planned however.
>
> It IS well planned, it is the participants who treat it like your saying, a
> "fun ride for all comers" who are out of line. This isn't a short ride it
> is long, it is not your 4 mile neighborhood parade where everyone moseys
> along.
It is horribly planned if the results are so poor.
>
> Bikers want car drivers to take them seriously - well the bikers on this
> ride that get in early understand this. This is a serious ride.
>
>
>
> > New York has successfully run the much bigger and longer 5 Borough
> > Bike Ride for decades so it can be done. And it is indeed possible to
> > run a very large ride so that the riders have fun. The riders in 5BBB
> > span a very wide range of ages and abilities and yet they are all able
> > to enjoy a ride with 32,000 fellow cyclists. Portland could do the
> > same if they were willing to plan the ride properly.
>
> New York has an extrordinairly extensive subway system that Portland
> lacks. New York is flat making it very easy for most people to take the
> subway and walk 10 blocks. Portland is on a hill and walking 10 blocks
> up the hill from the subway station would give a lot of folks a heart
> attack,
> if there was such a system which there isn't. The Light Rail in Portland
> all travels on surface streets and is shut down by these bike things the
> same
> as car traffic. Most east side streets in Portland are 2 way not 1 way
> making
> a street shutdown have a lot more logistical problems.
Simple - you pick a few streets, give advance notice so people can
make alternate plans and then CLOSE THEM for the duration of the
race. It is not complex.
> And unlike New
> York there are only 3 major arterials into and out of the city and all of
> them
> use the same bridges as the bikers - if they get clogged (by bikers or by
> accidents) it shuts down all car and bus transportation in the city.
On a saturday the disruption would be tolerable. Heck, quit whining,
get off "lard-ass" and enjoy a bike ride!
>
> I respectfully submit that as you clearly don't live here you don't have any
> idea what the hell your talking about.
Portland must feel that this race is important otherwise they would
have stopped it long ago. The solution is simple - some car drivers
are going to have give way for one morning out of 365 to make it work
properly. It is really no big deal - just grab another latte and read
the paper. Or make some plans that don't take you downtown. The
race is not being run for you benefit my friend. In NYC they give
advance notice and close down certain roadways and bridges. Same
thing can be easily done in Portland.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 02:53:59
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com > wrote in message
news:1187217294.743998.199100@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> > it is illegal for bicycles to be on a federal Interstate to begin with.
The
> > Bridge
> > Pedal takes place only by the consent of the DRIVERS and their CARS who
> > are the only LEGALLY authorized vehicles on that bridge. Bikers DO NOT
> > have the right to be on that bridge ONLY CARS, and they are there
because
> > WE LET THEM. Therefore it is extremely rude of them to try to drag the
> > event out all day long, which is what a few whiner bikers seem to be
trying
> > to do.
>
> Utter nonsense. Bikes have an equal on that bridge right if the city
> fathers say so and they did.
>
Yes, until 11:30am. If the city fathers were to try to shut that bridge
down
for the entire day I would think the federal highway adminstration would
probably take a dim view of Portland shutting down the major Interstate
between Seattle and San Francisco. Not that the city residents would
stand for it.
> > as car traffic. Most east side streets in Portland are 2 way not 1 way
> > making
> > a street shutdown have a lot more logistical problems.
>
>
> Simple - you pick a few streets, give advance notice so people can
> make alternate plans and then CLOSE THEM for the duration of the
> race. It is not complex.
>
I think you need to look at a map of the city and of the route before
you make yourself look more silly.
>
> On a saturday the disruption would be tolerable. Heck, quit whining,
> get off "lard-ass" and enjoy a bike ride!
>
That is news to the city fathers who only permit such things on Sunday
mornings. (ie: a number of marathons are scheduled during the year
that use city streets, also Sunday morning)
>
> >
> > I respectfully submit that as you clearly don't live here you don't have
any
> > idea what the hell your talking about.
>
> Portland must feel that this race is important otherwise they would
> have stopped it long ago. The solution is simple - some car drivers
> are going to have give way for one morning out of 365 to make it work
> properly.
Very few people work Sunday morning.
> It is really no big deal - just grab another latte and read
> the paper. Or make some plans that don't take you downtown. The
> race is not being run for you benefit my friend. In NYC they give
> advance notice and close down certain roadways and bridges. Same
> thing can be easily done in Portland.
>
There's a lot more roads in NYC and alternate routes. Not so in Portland.
I'm afraid you don't realize how small Portland is compared to NYC.
Bicyclists do not pay road taxes (no fuel, you see) and someone who has
no car and only bikes basically pays nothing at all to support the road.
Granted, bikes have minimal wear on the road. However the roads must
be maintained due to weather damage and bikers don't pay for this.
Bicyclists are tolerated on the roads because although they do not pay
for upkeep, they reduce car traffic and thus congestion - this benefit is
offset by the cost of the rest of the car drivers of maintaining the road
for
the bicyclists. So it is somewhat an even trade for most roads. This
tradeoff does not exist for Interstate highways because Interstates are
not supposed to be congested, ever. (the fact that some are is simply
due to cities and states abrogating their responsibility to provide adequate
parallel roads to keep the freeways clear) So that is why bicycles aren't
allowed (this is a federal not state government rule) on Interstates.
This tradeoff does not give bicyclists the right to shut down a road to
cars, any more than it gives cars the right to shut down the roads to
bikes. That is why state highways (at least in Oregon) and all other
state roads do not prohibit bicycles on the road. To shut down roads
for this kind of event, the organizers REQUEST for the road to be
closed. It is not guarenteed that they will get a yes answer.
As for the race not being run for my benefit, your wrong on that as well.
One of the main charities is a medical charity (Providence Heart and
Vascular Institute)
that buys automatic defibrillators and donates them to public gathering
places. So that if someone like me has a heart attack I might get
zapped back to life with one. I also cannot stand lattes, what a gay drink
that is. I take my coffee black with no sugar.
Ted
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 14:37:54
From: Paul Berg
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Lobby Dosser wrote:
> lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 15, 1:04 am, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea> wrote:
> >> > Don Homuth wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
> >> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> Don Homuth wrote:
> >> >>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
> >> >>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> >> >>>>>> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <st...@steve.com>
> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be
> >> >>>>>>>>> good riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
> >> >>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or
> >> >>>>>>>> a tour.
> >>
> >> >>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
> >> >>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long
> >> >>>>>> column of a couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be
> >> >>>>>> pretty noticeable.
> >>
> >> >>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I
> >> >>>>>> haven't gone on one of those, since I only actually Joined the
> >> >>>>>> club several months back.
> >>
> >> >>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
> >> >>>>>> pre-restoration.
> >> >>> I like the blue one better.
> >> >>>>http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileV
> >> >>>>ie
> >> >>>> wChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B4
> >> >>>> 176 05-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
> >>
> >> >> De gustibus, and all.
> >>
> >> >> Mine is still a work in progress.
> >>
> >> >> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does
> >> >> will be immaterial.
> >>
> >> > I still like the blue one.
> >>
> >> They're all Crap.
> >
> > indeed, my wife brought one home for me (a friend gave it to her, he
> > wanted the pickup it came with). She thought I might like a project
> > car to fix up.
> >
> > Needless to say, I flipped it over for $50. Found somebody like Don
> > who likes those things and wanted parts. I forgot if it was a 260 or
> > 280 (they are all pretty crappy) but it was the 2+2 model.
> >
> >
>
> Friend of mine - the Real variety, not an Expert - was rebuilding an old
> Ford (T?) from thye ground up. By himself in his garage. Nice hobby when
> you're doing it all yourself. Same friend got an Earl Scheib paint job on
> his first car. THAT was a Lesson!
Lobby, here is a bit of Portland trivia for your friend.
The Ford Building, located at 2505 SE 11th in Portland, was originally
constructed in 1914 as a state-of-the-art Ford Motor Company branch
plant for the assembly and distribution of Ford motor cars.
`
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:44:59
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Paul Berg <pjberg@webtv.net > wrote:
>
>
> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>> lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Aug 15, 1:04 am, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea> wrote:
>> >> > Don Homuth wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton
>> >> >> <catc...@rye.tea> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>> Don Homuth wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton
>> >> >>>> <catc...@rye.tea> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> >> >>>>>> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve"
>> >> >>>>>>>> <st...@steve.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant
>> >> >>>>>>>>> be good riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>> >> >>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise
>> >> >>>>>>>> or a tour.
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>> >> >>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long
>> >> >>>>>> column of a couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be
>> >> >>>>>> pretty noticeable.
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I
>> >> >>>>>> haven't gone on one of those, since I only actually Joined
>> >> >>>>>> the club several months back.
>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>> >> >>>>>> pre-restoration.
>> >> >>> I like the blue one better.
>> >> >>>>http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfi
>> >> >>>>leV ie
>> >> >>>> wChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=
>> >> >>>> 4B4 176 05-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>> >>
>> >> >> De gustibus, and all.
>> >>
>> >> >> Mine is still a work in progress.
>> >>
>> >> >> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else
>> >> >> does will be immaterial.
>> >>
>> >> > I still like the blue one.
>> >>
>> >> They're all Crap.
>> >
>> > indeed, my wife brought one home for me (a friend gave it to her,
>> > he wanted the pickup it came with). She thought I might like a
>> > project car to fix up.
>> >
>> > Needless to say, I flipped it over for $50. Found somebody like
>> > Don who likes those things and wanted parts. I forgot if it was a
>> > 260 or 280 (they are all pretty crappy) but it was the 2+2 model.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Friend of mine - the Real variety, not an Expert - was rebuilding an
>> old Ford (T?) from thye ground up. By himself in his garage. Nice
>> hobby when you're doing it all yourself. Same friend got an Earl
>> Scheib paint job on his first car. THAT was a Lesson!
>
> Lobby, here is a bit of Portland trivia for your friend.
>
> The Ford Building, located at 2505 SE 11th in Portland, was originally
> constructed in 1914 as a state-of-the-art Ford Motor Company branch
> plant for the assembly and distribution of Ford motor cars.
>
> `
>
>
Didn't know they did that. Thanks.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 10:57:50
From: lein
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 10:33 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:08:01 -0700, lein <boomer_the_...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Aug 15, 8:57 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:29:39 -0700, lein <boomer_the_...@my-deja.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Couldn't afford a Corvette, could you?
>
> >> Well, my Corvette got sold after I got married the first time -- the
> >> usual fate of Corvettes for young men in their mid 20's at the time.
> >> Corvettes are useful to Get Girls. Mine certainly was. When I
> >> married one of the girls it got, it occurred to her that its purpose
> >> was entirely fulfilled, and thereafter We Need A More Practical Car.
>
> >Why? Corvettes have two seats and I don't recall you ever having
> >children.
>
> Ask her. That's how Wives talk about Corvettes, more often than not.
> Especially the young ones.
>
> Your Memory, however, doesn't include many things that you don't
> actually know about. Nor will it.
>
> >> The first replacement I bought several years later was a 1975 280Z,
> >> and then I bought this one.
>
> >So as it turns out, the Corvette wasn't so unpractical afterall.
>
> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already had
> another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my wife bought
> her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>
> It was all Very strange.
>
> >> I could have purchased Corvettes through the years, but to be quite
> >> frank about it, precisely None of the Corvettes from 1968 to about
> >> 1987 or thereabouts seemed worth the money.
>
> >Your wife wouldn't let you, fess up.
>
> Those who know Corvettes are fully aware that the version from 1968
> onward was inferior to the Sting Rays from 1963 - 1967. And the
> version that came out in 1984 was a stiff-riding SOB in pretty much
> all iterations.
>
> But my biggest preference in that series was always for a convertible.
> The early ones only came in coupes. Now having a coupe is OK (though
> I greatly dislike sunroofs) but if one is to have a Corvette, then a
> convertible is, seems to me, about the Only way to go if one wishes to
> drive on the street.
>
> >> And after 1987, I determined that the Datsun was quite sufficient. It
> >> was comfortable, had about 90% of Corvette highway performance, better
> >> mileage overall for less than half the money. Seemed better, to my
> >> way of thinking.
>
> >And you loved the unibody construction.
>
> It has held together rather well across thirty years, but other than
> that I never really gave it all that much thought at all.
>
> >> I've been looking lustfully at one of the C6 variants recently. Could
> >> get one -- just can't see where it would be a superior choice to what
> >> I'm doing now, though. At the $50-$60k the things cost new, they are
> >> now a better choice for drug dealers and middle-aged insurance
> >> salesmen trying to impress their trophy wives.
>
> >Better to spend the money on an RV and enjoy the camping experience.
>
> Nope. If I'm actually Camping, I'll not need to pull an apartment
> around with me.
>
> >> Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
> >> car for thirty years.
>
> >Especially one that doesn't hold the resale value that your former
> >vette would have about now.
>
> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
> knockoff wheels.
>
Okay, this might clear up the big picture. She made you sell your
vette and you, in turn, take it out on her today by tossing her
finches in zip lock bags in the freezer.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:55:29
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:57:50 -0700, lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com >
wrote:
>On Aug 15, 10:33 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
>> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
>> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
>> knockoff wheels.
>>
>Okay, this might clear up the big picture. She made you sell your
>vette and you, in turn, take it out on her today by tossing her
>finches in zip lock bags in the freezer.
You, lein, are one Very Confused Person!
Consider deeply the inherent meaning of the first two Ordinal Numbers,
when you can connect a second neuron.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 10:52:34
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 5:54 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> "Paul Berg" <pjb...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>
> news:26500-46C1C2E0-281@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>
> > ~
>
> > News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
>
> > Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
> > ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
> > Bridge Ped-debacle.
>
> This was just a stupid article. My wife did this ride and had no problems.
> (I personally am not "in" to riding a bicycle) The problem wasn't the ride,
> the problem was too many people on this ride shouldn't have been there.
>
> The dedicated bicyclists all registered early, showed up early, and did
> their ride without stopping. Portable toilets? The dedicated riders wern't
> stopping to take a dump every 2 miles because they were too fat to do the
> ride.
Really??? Now how did you come upon this interesting tidbit of
information about the riders toilet habits. Maybe you were surveying
the porta-potties on race day?
> They wern't using the toilets except possibly at the end of the ride.
>
> The problem with this ride was all the wannabe whiner riders that didn't
> do any training for it and registered late and got late start times.
So according to you the solution to the congestion problem must be for
everyone to register early and get early start times.
Don't forget that this is not a road race. Bike clubs provide plenty
of that kind of competition. It is first a benefit ride and second a
fun ride for all comers. It was not well planned however.
> Then
> they
> poked along the route way too slow.
How fast is fast enough for cyclists of all ages and abilities.
>
> I would have never thought in my wildest dreams that there would ever
> be such a thing as a wanna be bicyclist.
What specifically is a wanna be cyclist.
> But, come to Portland and you
> can see tons of them. Sheesh.
>
> There's plenty of other rides that are organized in Portland that are a lot
> shorter for the newbie and wannabe bicyclists to participate in. The
> bridge pedal isn't as hardcore as the Portland to Seattle run, but it is
> definitely not for someone who doesen't ride a bike 5 miles every other
> day.
New York has successfully run the much bigger and longer 5 Borough
Bike Ride for decades so it can be done. And it is indeed possible to
run a very large ride so that the riders have fun. The riders in 5BBB
span a very wide range of ages and abilities and yet they are all able
to enjoy a ride with 32,000 fellow cyclists. Portland could do the
same if they were willing to plan the ride properly.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 14:09:25
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com > wrote in message
news:1187200354.451459.261930@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> So according to you the solution to the congestion problem must be for
> everyone to register early and get early start times.
>
That is correct. Sunrise is about 5 am, and on a Sunday morning in Portland
the traffic is very light until about 10:30am when it starts getting busy.
These
biking rides have a good solid 5 hours of daylight that they can take place
where
they are not inconveniencing anyone. It is unfair to the drivers in the
city for
a bunch of lard-ass bikers to insist on waiting until 9am to get out of bed
then amble on down to the ride and drag through the course. You don't seem
to understand that some of these bridges do not have space at ALL for
bicycles. In particular the Fremont bridge is an Interstate Highway bridge
and
it is illegal for bicycles to be on a federal Interstate to begin with. The
Bridge
Pedal takes place only by the consent of the DRIVERS and their CARS who
are the only LEGALLY authorized vehicles on that bridge. Bikers DO NOT
have the right to be on that bridge ONLY CARS, and they are there because
WE LET THEM. Therefore it is extremely rude of them to try to drag the
event out all day long, which is what a few whiner bikers seem to be trying
to do.
And I will point out that the dedicated bike riders UNDERSTAND THIS and they
ARE NOT THE PROBLEM as they get out there, do their thing, then get
the hell out.
> Don't forget that this is not a road race. Bike clubs provide plenty
> of that kind of competition. It is first a benefit ride and second a
> fun ride for all comers. It was not well planned however.
>
It IS well planned, it is the participants who treat it like your saying, a
"fun ride for all comers" who are out of line. This isn't a short ride it
is long, it is not your 4 mile neighborhood parade where everyone moseys
along.
Bikers want car drivers to take them seriously - well the bikers on this
ride that get in early understand this. This is a serious ride.
>
> New York has successfully run the much bigger and longer 5 Borough
> Bike Ride for decades so it can be done. And it is indeed possible to
> run a very large ride so that the riders have fun. The riders in 5BBB
> span a very wide range of ages and abilities and yet they are all able
> to enjoy a ride with 32,000 fellow cyclists. Portland could do the
> same if they were willing to plan the ride properly.
>
New York has an extrordinairly extensive subway system that Portland
lacks. New York is flat making it very easy for most people to take the
subway and walk 10 blocks. Portland is on a hill and walking 10 blocks
up the hill from the subway station would give a lot of folks a heart
attack,
if there was such a system which there isn't. The Light Rail in Portland
all travels on surface streets and is shut down by these bike things the
same
as car traffic. Most east side streets in Portland are 2 way not 1 way
making
a street shutdown have a lot more logistical problems. And unlike New
York there are only 3 major arterials into and out of the city and all of
them
use the same bridges as the bikers - if they get clogged (by bikers or by
accidents) it shuts down all car and bus transportation in the city.
I respectfully submit that as you clearly don't live here you don't have any
idea what the hell your talking about.
Ted
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 10:08:01
From: lein
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 8:57 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:29:39 -0700, lein <boomer_the_...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Couldn't afford a Corvette, could you?
>
> Well, my Corvette got sold after I got married the first time -- the
> usual fate of Corvettes for young men in their mid 20's at the time.
> Corvettes are useful to Get Girls. Mine certainly was. When I
> married one of the girls it got, it occurred to her that its purpose
> was entirely fulfilled, and thereafter We Need A More Practical Car.
Why? Corvettes have two seats and I don't recall you ever having
children.
>
> Some newly graduated medical stoont bought it. I hope he took Really
> good care of it. It was Really nice!
I'm sure he put one of those pine tree air fresheners in it (you know,
the ones where you pull down the plastic wrapper over time.
>
> The first replacement I bought several years later was a 1975 280Z,
> and then I bought this one.
So as it turns out, the Corvette wasn't so unpractical afterall.
>
> I could have purchased Corvettes through the years, but to be quite
> frank about it, precisely None of the Corvettes from 1968 to about
> 1987 or thereabouts seemed worth the money.
Your wife wouldn't let you, fess up.
>
> And after 1987, I determined that the Datsun was quite sufficient. It
> was comfortable, had about 90% of Corvette highway performance, better
> mileage overall for less than half the money. Seemed better, to my
> way of thinking.
And you loved the unibody construction.
>
> I've been looking lustfully at one of the C6 variants recently. Could
> get one -- just can't see where it would be a superior choice to what
> I'm doing now, though. At the $50-$60k the things cost new, they are
> now a better choice for drug dealers and middle-aged insurance
> salesmen trying to impress their trophy wives.
Better to spend the money on an RV and enjoy the camping experience.
>
> Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
> car for thirty years.
Especially one that doesn't hold the resale value that your former
vette would have about now.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 10:33:25
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:08:01 -0700, lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com >
wrote:
>On Aug 15, 8:57 am, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:29:39 -0700, lein <boomer_the_...@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Couldn't afford a Corvette, could you?
>>
>> Well, my Corvette got sold after I got married the first time -- the
>> usual fate of Corvettes for young men in their mid 20's at the time.
>> Corvettes are useful to Get Girls. Mine certainly was. When I
>> married one of the girls it got, it occurred to her that its purpose
>> was entirely fulfilled, and thereafter We Need A More Practical Car.
>
>Why? Corvettes have two seats and I don't recall you ever having
>children.
Ask her. That's how Wives talk about Corvettes, more often than not.
Especially the young ones.
Your Memory, however, doesn't include many things that you don't
actually know about. Nor will it.
>> The first replacement I bought several years later was a 1975 280Z,
>> and then I bought this one.
>
>So as it turns out, the Corvette wasn't so unpractical afterall.
Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already had
another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my wife bought
her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
It was all Very strange.
>> I could have purchased Corvettes through the years, but to be quite
>> frank about it, precisely None of the Corvettes from 1968 to about
>> 1987 or thereabouts seemed worth the money.
>
>Your wife wouldn't let you, fess up.
Those who know Corvettes are fully aware that the version from 1968
onward was inferior to the Sting Rays from 1963 - 1967. And the
version that came out in 1984 was a stiff-riding SOB in pretty much
all iterations.
But my biggest preference in that series was always for a convertible.
The early ones only came in coupes. Now having a coupe is OK (though
I greatly dislike sunroofs) but if one is to have a Corvette, then a
convertible is, seems to me, about the Only way to go if one wishes to
drive on the street.
>> And after 1987, I determined that the Datsun was quite sufficient. It
>> was comfortable, had about 90% of Corvette highway performance, better
>> mileage overall for less than half the money. Seemed better, to my
>> way of thinking.
>
>And you loved the unibody construction.
It has held together rather well across thirty years, but other than
that I never really gave it all that much thought at all.
>> I've been looking lustfully at one of the C6 variants recently. Could
>> get one -- just can't see where it would be a superior choice to what
>> I'm doing now, though. At the $50-$60k the things cost new, they are
>> now a better choice for drug dealers and middle-aged insurance
>> salesmen trying to impress their trophy wives.
>
>Better to spend the money on an RV and enjoy the camping experience.
Nope. If I'm actually Camping, I'll not need to pull an apartment
around with me.
>> Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
>> car for thirty years.
>
>Especially one that doesn't hold the resale value that your former
>vette would have about now.
As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
knockoff wheels.
But the Hand of History writes, and earlier decisions are oftimes
regretted later.
Besides -- if I still had the Corvette now, I'd almost be afraid to
drive it in Salem. Last time I checked, they were going for about
$50k or so -- maybe a tad higher.
Not worth the risk.
I have a car I can actually Drive if I need to. I won't drive it as
much as I used to, but it'll still be sorta fun.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 14:47:04
From: Bill Shatzer
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth wrote:
-snip-
> Your Memory, however, doesn't include many things that you don't
> actually know about. Nor will it.
I'd suggest that his memory includes -nothing- he doesn't actually know
about.
:-)
Peace and jusstice,
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 23:36:36
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Bill Shatzer wrote:
> Peace and jusstice,
>
War and oppression,
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 16:46:04
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Niobrara wrote:
> Bill Shatzer wrote:
>
>> Peace and jusstice,
>>
> War and oppression,
Yomamma and pappa,
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 03:24:36
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Niobrara wrote:
>> Bill Shatzer wrote:
>>
>>> Peace and jusstice,
>>>
>> War and oppression,
>
> Yomamma and pappa,
>
>
Horse and carriage,
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 00:46:22
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote:
> Niobrara wrote:
>> Bill Shatzer wrote:
>>
>>> Peace and jusstice,
>>>
>> War and oppression,
>
> Yomamma and pappa,
>
>
>
Monday, Monday ...
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 20:38:10
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
> knockoff wheels.
Sad. Very sad.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:58:19
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:38:10 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
>> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
>> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
>> knockoff wheels.
>
>Sad. Very sad.
Yeah -- I've owned some pretty neat cars in my life, but that's The
One I regret having sold.
Ah well -- I'm not the only former Corvette owners who tells that same
story.
Corvettes get girls.
One of the girls becomes a wife.
Wife knows that Corvettes get girls and wants it gone.
It's one of those Territorial Things, apparently.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 15:16:57
From: Ockham's Razor
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
In article <k4q6c3pqu8rrsnnvc2469llt9hths07bp4@4ax.com >,
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:38:10 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
> >> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
> >> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
> >> knockoff wheels.
> >
> >Sad. Very sad.
>
> Yeah -- I've owned some pretty neat cars in my life, but that's The
> One I regret having sold.
>
> Ah well -- I'm not the only former Corvette owners who tells that same
> story.
>
> Corvettes get girls.
>
> One of the girls becomes a wife.
>
> Wife knows that Corvettes get girls and wants it gone.
>
> It's one of those Territorial Things, apparently.
Nope, you were hit with the pink hammer.
--
Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tatige Unwissenheit.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 20:36:54
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already had
> another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my wife bought
> her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>
> It was all Very strange.
>
>
Not at all. There's even a name for it: 'Conspicuous Consumption'.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:56:45
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:36:54 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already had
>> another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my wife bought
>> her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>>
>> It was all Very strange.
>>
>Not at all. There's even a name for it: 'Conspicuous Consumption'.
Anything can fit a definition, if you wish it to do so and want to
force it hard enough.
But it seems that my First wife rather liked driving my '75, and when
a '76 came up at a Really good price, she decided to buy it for her
own use.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:29:05
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:36:54 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already had
>>> another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my wife
>>> bought her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>>>
>>> It was all Very strange.
>>>
>>Not at all. There's even a name for it: 'Conspicuous Consumption'.
>
> Anything can fit a definition, if you wish it to do so and want to
> force it hard enough.
>
> But it seems that my First wife rather liked driving my '75, and when
> a '76 came up at a Really good price, she decided to buy it for her
> own use.
>
That fits the definition. Smoothly.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 16:04:57
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:29:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:36:54 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already had
>>>> another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my wife
>>>> bought her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>>>>
>>>> It was all Very strange.
>>>>
>>>Not at all. There's even a name for it: 'Conspicuous Consumption'.
>>
>> Anything can fit a definition, if you wish it to do so and want to
>> force it hard enough.
>>
>> But it seems that my First wife rather liked driving my '75, and when
>> a '76 came up at a Really good price, she decided to buy it for her
>> own use.
>>
>That fits the definition. Smoothly.
It's reasonably clear that it was consumption, as defined. It's not
at all clear that it was conspicuous, however.
You are, to my knowledge, the first person who ever made that
statement. It was her money, and if she wanted the car, she was more
than free to buy it.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 00:45:47
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:29:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:36:54 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already
>>>>> had another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my
>>>>> wife bought her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was all Very strange.
>>>>>
>>>>Not at all. There's even a name for it: 'Conspicuous Consumption'.
>>>
>>> Anything can fit a definition, if you wish it to do so and want to
>>> force it hard enough.
>>>
>>> But it seems that my First wife rather liked driving my '75, and
>>> when a '76 came up at a Really good price, she decided to buy it for
>>> her own use.
>>>
>>That fits the definition. Smoothly.
>
> It's reasonably clear that it was consumption, as defined. It's not
> at all clear that it was conspicuous, however.
>
> You are, to my knowledge, the first person who ever made that
> statement. It was her money, and if she wanted the car, she was more
> than free to buy it.
>
Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 14:00:04
From: Matthew T. Russotto
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
In article <%6Nwi.509$1e.229@trndny06 >,
Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> It's reasonably clear that it was consumption, as defined. It's not
>> at all clear that it was conspicuous, however.
>>
>> You are, to my knowledge, the first person who ever made that
>> statement. It was her money, and if she wanted the car, she was more
>> than free to buy it.
>>
>
>Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
Two people with three beaters is not "Conspicuous Consumption". Two
people with one Porsche Cayenne and one Shelby Cobra IS "Conspicuous
Consumption".
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 21:33:42
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> In article <%6Nwi.509$1e.229@trndny06>,
> Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>> It's reasonably clear that it was consumption, as defined. It's not
>>> at all clear that it was conspicuous, however.
>>>
>>> You are, to my knowledge, the first person who ever made that
>>> statement. It was her money, and if she wanted the car, she was more
>>> than free to buy it.
>>>
>> Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
>
> Two people with three beaters is not "Conspicuous Consumption". Two
> people with one Porsche Cayenne and one Shelby Cobra IS "Conspicuous
> Consumption".
Bully for them too!
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 03:28:35
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Lobby Dosser wrote:
> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:29:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:36:54 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not my call, at the time. When I bought the Datsun, we already
>>>>>> had another Practical Car. And then, interestingly enough, my
>>>>>> wife bought her own -- a 1976. So there we were with three cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was all Very strange.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. There's even a name for it: 'Conspicuous Consumption'.
>>>> Anything can fit a definition, if you wish it to do so and want to
>>>> force it hard enough.
>>>>
>>>> But it seems that my First wife rather liked driving my '75, and
>>>> when a '76 came up at a Really good price, she decided to buy it for
>>>> her own use.
>>>>
>>> That fits the definition. Smoothly.
>> It's reasonably clear that it was consumption, as defined. It's not
>> at all clear that it was conspicuous, however.
>>
>> You are, to my knowledge, the first person who ever made that
>> statement. It was her money, and if she wanted the car, she was more
>> than free to buy it.
>>
>
> Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
Tax the mofos!
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 14:01:29
From: Matthew T. Russotto
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
In article <DvPwi.220886$ss3.189178@fe01.news.easynews.com >,
Niobrara <stubfarlow@dead.man > wrote:
>Lobby Dosser wrote:
>>
>> Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
>
>Tax the mofos!
Sure. Special tax for anyone driving more than one car at once.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 21:34:04
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> In article <DvPwi.220886$ss3.189178@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
> Niobrara <stubfarlow@dead.man> wrote:
>> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>>> Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
>> Tax the mofos!
>
> Sure. Special tax for anyone driving more than one car at once.
The lieberal way!
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 17 Aug 2007 13:19:25
From: Matthew T. Russotto
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
In article <fp3xi.226826$ss3.113069@fe01.news.easynews.com >,
Niobrara <stubfarlow@dead.man > wrote:
>Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>> In article <DvPwi.220886$ss3.189178@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
>> Niobrara <stubfarlow@dead.man> wrote:
>>> Lobby Dosser wrote:
>>>> Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
>>> Tax the mofos!
>>
>> Sure. Special tax for anyone driving more than one car at once.
>
>The lieberal way!
Whoosh.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 17:51:55
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:45:47 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
Would that work if one of the cars was a:
* Station wagon?
* Mini-Van?
* Pickemup truck?
* Recreational vehicle - large or small?
If true, then there are a Lot of miscreant conspicuous consumers out
there.
Is this a Great country or What?
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 01:09:16
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:45:47 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Two people. Three cars. Conspicuous Consumption.
>
> Would that work if one of the cars was a:
>
> * Station wagon?
> * Mini-Van?
> * Pickemup truck?
> * Recreational vehicle - large or small?
Yes.
>
> If true, then there are a Lot of miscreant conspicuous consumers out
> there.
There are. Huge numbers. And it's not just cars. Big honking boats, motor
cycles, ATVs, $3k bicycles, $250K RVs, ...
>
> Is this a Great country or What?
Until the bills come due.
>
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:35:21
From: lein
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 1:03 am, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net >
wrote:
> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> > <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
> >>>>blindly formulated
> >>>>the following incoherence:
>
> >>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along
> >>>>> parts of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the
> >>>>> estimated record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to
> >>>>> complete the ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the
> >>>>> Fremont Bridge and other spans as authorities sought to reopen
> >>>>> them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists, frustrated, left the
> >>>>> course on their own.
>
> >>>>What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
> >>>>riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>
> >>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>
> >>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>
> >>They disrupt regular traffic?
>
> > Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
> > couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>
> But do they deliberately disrupt traffic?
and break traffic laws in the process?
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:34:14
From: lein
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 1:04 am, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net >
wrote:
> Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea> wrote:
> > Don Homuth wrote:
> >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Don Homuth wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> >>>>>> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <st...@steve.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be
> >>>>>>>>> good riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
> >>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>
> >>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a
> >>>>>>>> tour.
>
> >>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
> >>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column
> >>>>>> of a couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty
> >>>>>> noticeable.
>
> >>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't
> >>>>>> gone on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club
> >>>>>> several months back.
>
> >>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
> >>>>>> pre-restoration.
> >>> I like the blue one better.
> >>>>http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileVie
> >>>> wChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B4176
> >>>> 05-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>
> >> De gustibus, and all.
>
> >> Mine is still a work in progress.
>
> >> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does
> >> will be immaterial.
>
> > I still like the blue one.
>
> They're all Crap.
indeed, my wife brought one home for me (a friend gave it to her, he
wanted the pickup it came with). She thought I might like a project
car to fix up.
Needless to say, I flipped it over for $50. Found somebody like Don
who likes those things and wanted parts. I forgot if it was a 260 or
280 (they are all pretty crappy) but it was the 2+2 model.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 20:41:38
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com > wrote:
> On Aug 15, 1:04 am, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea> wrote:
>> > Don Homuth wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Don Homuth wrote:
>> >>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
>> >>>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> >>>>>> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <st...@steve.com>
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be
>> >>>>>>>>> good riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>> >>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>
>> >>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or
>> >>>>>>>> a tour.
>>
>> >>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>> >>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long
>> >>>>>> column of a couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be
>> >>>>>> pretty noticeable.
>>
>> >>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I
>> >>>>>> haven't gone on one of those, since I only actually Joined the
>> >>>>>> club several months back.
>>
>> >>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>> >>>>>> pre-restoration.
>> >>> I like the blue one better.
>> >>>>http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileV
>> >>>>ie
>> >>>> wChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B4
>> >>>> 176 05-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>>
>> >> De gustibus, and all.
>>
>> >> Mine is still a work in progress.
>>
>> >> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does
>> >> will be immaterial.
>>
>> > I still like the blue one.
>>
>> They're all Crap.
>
> indeed, my wife brought one home for me (a friend gave it to her, he
> wanted the pickup it came with). She thought I might like a project
> car to fix up.
>
> Needless to say, I flipped it over for $50. Found somebody like Don
> who likes those things and wanted parts. I forgot if it was a 260 or
> 280 (they are all pretty crappy) but it was the 2+2 model.
>
>
Friend of mine - the Real variety, not an Expert - was rebuilding an old
Ford (T?) from thye ground up. By himself in his garage. Nice hobby when
you're doing it all yourself. Same friend got an Earl Scheib paint job on
his first car. THAT was a Lesson!
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:29:39
From: lein
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 12:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catc...@rye.tea>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Don Homuth wrote:
> >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> >> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
> >>>>> blindly formulated
> >>>>> the following incoherence:
>
> >>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts
> >>>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
> >>>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
> >>>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
> >>>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic.
> >>>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
> >>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
> >>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
> >>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>
> >>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>
> >>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>
> >> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
> >> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>
> >> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
> >> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
> >> back.
>
> >> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
> >> pre-restoration.
>
> >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>
> Nope.
>
> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
Couldn't afford a Corvette, could you?
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:57:04
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:29:39 -0700, lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com >
wrote:
>Couldn't afford a Corvette, could you?
Well, my Corvette got sold after I got married the first time -- the
usual fate of Corvettes for young men in their mid 20's at the time.
Corvettes are useful to Get Girls. Mine certainly was. When I
married one of the girls it got, it occurred to her that its purpose
was entirely fulfilled, and thereafter We Need A More Practical Car.
Some newly graduated medical stoont bought it. I hope he took Really
good care of it. It was Really nice!
The first replacement I bought several years later was a 1975 280Z,
and then I bought this one.
I could have purchased Corvettes through the years, but to be quite
frank about it, precisely None of the Corvettes from 1968 to about
1987 or thereabouts seemed worth the money.
And after 1987, I determined that the Datsun was quite sufficient. It
was comfortable, had about 90% of Corvette highway performance, better
mileage overall for less than half the money. Seemed better, to my
way of thinking.
I've been looking lustfully at one of the C6 variants recently. Could
get one -- just can't see where it would be a superior choice to what
I'm doing now, though. At the $50-$60k the things cost new, they are
now a better choice for drug dealers and middle-aged insurance
salesmen trying to impress their trophy wives.
Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
car for thirty years.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 20:34:57
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
> car for thirty years.
I've got a knife I've had for more than fifty.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:58:38
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:34:57 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same sports
>> car for thirty years.
>
>I've got a knife I've had for more than fifty.
If you say so.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:28:12
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:34:57 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Besides -- there's something pretty Cool about owning the same
>>> sports car for thirty years.
>>
>>I've got a knife I've had for more than fifty.
>
> If you say so.
>
I just did.
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 05:30:18
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 4:02 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com > wrote:
> "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in messagenews:_eSdnRmqMdOO1F_bnZ2dnUVZ_srinZ2d@ptd.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > steve wrote:
> > > On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
> blindly
> > > formulated
> > > the following incoherence:
>
> > >> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts of
> > >> the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
> > >> 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
> > >> Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other spans
> > >> as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other
> cyclists,
> > >> frustrated, left the course on their own.
>
> > > What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding,
> and
> > > it obviously screws up traffic.
>
> > I was going to ask just that question. No one I've talked to who rode
> > the 5-Borough tour of New York would do it again, but still they have
> > thousands and thousands of people riding it. They've started one in
> > Philadelphia as well this year.
>
> > I just don't get the appeal.
>
> If you are in shape and have trained it is a very nice ride, early in the
> morning with blue sky and the crisp air. The views from the bridges
> are spectacular and when you drive over them in a car you go so fast
> you really don't see or pay attention much. The rises on the entrances
> to the bridges are gentle enough that a rider in shape would hardly break
> a sweat going up them. And the architecture of the bridges that they
> go over is facinating. If you were to see pictures taken along the route
> you would understand why it is popular.
>
> Ted
I've been there. I wouldn't assess it at biking air.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:50:54
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"Steven" <thisjukeboxplays33rpm@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1187181018.671592.287110@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 4:02 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
> > "David L. Johnson" <david.john...@lehigh.edu> wrote in
messagenews:_eSdnRmqMdOO1F_bnZ2dnUVZ_srinZ2d@ptd.net...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > steve wrote:
> > > > On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
> > blindly
> > > > formulated
> > > > the following incoherence:
> >
> > > >> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along
parts of
> > > >> the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
> > > >> 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
> > > >> Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other
spans
> > > >> as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other
> > cyclists,
> > > >> frustrated, left the course on their own.
> >
> > > > What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
riding,
> > and
> > > > it obviously screws up traffic.
> >
> > > I was going to ask just that question. No one I've talked to who rode
> > > the 5-Borough tour of New York would do it again, but still they have
> > > thousands and thousands of people riding it. They've started one in
> > > Philadelphia as well this year.
> >
> > > I just don't get the appeal.
> >
> > If you are in shape and have trained it is a very nice ride, early in
the
> > morning with blue sky and the crisp air. The views from the bridges
> > are spectacular and when you drive over them in a car you go so fast
> > you really don't see or pay attention much. The rises on the entrances
> > to the bridges are gentle enough that a rider in shape would hardly
break
> > a sweat going up them. And the architecture of the bridges that they
> > go over is facinating. If you were to see pictures taken along the
route
> > you would understand why it is popular.
> >
> > Ted
>
> I've been there. I wouldn't assess it at biking air.
>
It depends. This last bridge pedal occurred after a few days of not very
hot
temps. In Portland, when the temp goes above 90 an air inversion effect is
created that traps all the smog - in that case, yes, your right, the air is
definitely
not biking air. Of course, it's not biking air anywhere else in the city
either.
But this year the inversion hasn't happened just about all summer, and I can
assure you, the air in that morning was definitely crisp biking air, and my
wife
has the pictures that show the clarity of the views to prove it.
Ted
|
| |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 02:54:36
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"Paul Berg" <pjberg@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:26500-46C1C2E0-281@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
> ~
>
> News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
>
> Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
> ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
> Bridge Ped-debacle.
>
This was just a stupid article. My wife did this ride and had no problems.
(I personally am not "in" to riding a bicycle) The problem wasn't the ride,
the problem was too many people on this ride shouldn't have been there.
The dedicated bicyclists all registered early, showed up early, and did
their ride without stopping. Portable toilets? The dedicated riders wern't
stopping to take a dump every 2 miles because they were too fat to do the
ride. They wern't using the toilets except possibly at the end of the ride.
The problem with this ride was all the wannabe whiner riders that didn't
do any training for it and registered late and got late start times. Then
they
poked along the route way too slow.
I would have never thought in my wildest dreams that there would ever
be such a thing as a wanna be bicyclist. But, come to Portland and you
can see tons of them. Sheesh.
There's plenty of other rides that are organized in Portland that are a lot
shorter for the newbie and wannabe bicyclists to participate in. The
bridge pedal isn't as hardcore as the Portland to Seattle run, but it is
definitely not for someone who doesen't ride a bike 5 miles every other
day.
Ted
|
| | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 20:22:16
From: Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
That World's Biggest Wedgie needs to travel.
|
| | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 14:21:57
From: Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Wikipedia, the Whore Book Encyclopeda.
Rewritten and coddled by Congressional figures and the CIA, Mickey D's
and all of corporate America. The National Enquirer of all time.
It's like your lousy alcoholic uncle who claims to have it together
but he got a 22 years pregnant with twins and they found the pills he
was going to kill himself with.
|
| | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 15:50:15
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S wrote:
> Wikipedia, the Whore Book Encyclopeda.
>
> Rewritten and coddled by Congressional figures and the CIA, Mickey D's
> and all of corporate America. The National Enquirer of all time.
>
> It's like your lousy alcoholic uncle who claims to have it together
> but he got a 22 years pregnant with twins and they found the pills he
> was going to kill himself with.
Got her number?
|
| | | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 18:04:05
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Bill Sornson wrote:
> Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S wrote:
>> Wikipedia, the Whore Book Encyclopeda.
>>
>> Rewritten and coddled by Congressional figures and the CIA, Mickey D's
>> and all of corporate America. The National Enquirer of all time.
>>
>> It's like your lousy alcoholic uncle who claims to have it together
>> but he got a 22 years pregnant with twins and they found the pills he
>> was going to kill himself with.
>
> Got her number?
Desperate? ;)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 16:16:18
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>> Bjorn Berg f/Fergie Berg and All the Ships at S wrote:
>>> Wikipedia, the Whore Book Encyclopeda.
>>>
>>> Rewritten and coddled by Congressional figures and the CIA, Mickey
>>> D's and all of corporate America. The National Enquirer of all time.
>>>
>>> It's like your lousy alcoholic uncle who claims to have it together
>>> but he got a 22 years pregnant with twins and they found the pills
>>> he was going to kill himself with.
>>
>> Got her number?
>
> Desperate? ;)
I've been arguing with you, haven't I?
|
| |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 22:11:35
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 8:54 pm, Brian Huntley <brian_hunt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>
> > Nope.
>
> >http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
>
> Dang - I was expecting a '73 B210. Now *that* was a stealth vehicle.
He's never finished the videos?
|
| |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 21:46:40
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 8:54 pm, Brian Huntley <brian_hunt...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>
> > Nope.
>
> >http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
>
> Dang - I was expecting a '73 B210. Now *that* was a stealth vehicle.
I expected a website...
The web site you are accessing has experienced an unexpected error.
Please contact the website administrator.
The following information is meant for the website developer for
debugging purposes.
Error Occurred While Processing Request
There is no handler for the event [MemberProfileView]
The error occurred in D:\Inetpub\northwestz\members\handler.cfm: line
25
23 :
24 : <cfcatch type="MissingInclude" >
25 : <cfthrow message="There is no handler for the event
[<b >#event#</b>]">
26 : </cfcatch >
27 : </cftry >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resources:
Check the ColdFusion documentation to verify that you are using the
correct syntax.
Search the Knowledge Base to find a solution to your problem.
Browser Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR
2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
Remote Address XXXXXXXXXXXXX
http://groups.google.com/group/pdx.general/browse_thread/thread/78b864f6da627f2b/7f04cb53e007fda4
Date/Time 14-Aug-07 09:43 PM
Stack Trace (click to expand)
at cfhandler2ecfm1354023831.runPage(D:\Inetpub\northwestz\members
\handler.cfm:25)
coldfusion.runtime.CustomException: There is no handler for the event
[<b >MemberProfileView</b>]
at coldfusion.tagext.lang.ThrowTag.doStartTag(ThrowTag.java:124)
at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage._emptyTag(CfJspPage.java:1915)
at cfhandler2ecfm1354023831.runPage(D:\Inetpub\northwestz\members
\handler.cfm:25)
at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage.invoke(CfJspPage.java:152)
at coldfusion.tagext.lang.IncludeTag.doStartTag(IncludeTag.java:349)
at coldfusion.filter.CfincludeFilter.invoke(CfincludeFilter.java:65)
at coldfusion.filter.ApplicationFilter.invoke(ApplicationFilter.java:
225)
at
coldfusion.filter.RequestMonitorFilter.invoke(RequestMonitorFilter.java:
51)
at coldfusion.filter.PathFilter.invoke(PathFilter.java:86)
at coldfusion.filter.ExceptionFilter.invoke(ExceptionFilter.java:69)
at
coldfusion.filter.ClientScopePersistenceFilter.invoke(ClientScopePersistenceFilter.java:
28)
at coldfusion.filter.BrowserFilter.invoke(BrowserFilter.java:38)
at coldfusion.filter.GlobalsFilter.invoke(GlobalsFilter.java:38)
at coldfusion.filter.DatasourceFilter.invoke(DatasourceFilter.java:
22)
at
coldfusion.filter.RequestThrottleFilter.invoke(RequestThrottleFilter.java:
115)
at coldfusion.CfmServlet.service(CfmServlet.java:107)
at
coldfusion.bootstrap.BootstrapServlet.service(BootstrapServlet.java:
78)
at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:86)
at com.intergral.fusionreactor.filter.FusionReactorFilter.B(Unknown
Source)
at com.intergral.fusionreactor.filter.FusionReactorFilter.A(Unknown
Source)
at
com.intergral.fusionreactor.filter.FusionReactorFilter.doFilter(Unknown
Source)
at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:94)
at com.seefusion.Filter.doFilter(Filter.java:40)
at com.seefusion.SeeFusion.doFilter(SeeFusion.java:1160)
at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:94)
at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.service(FilterChain.java:101)
at jrun.servlet.ServletInvoker.invoke(ServletInvoker.java:91)
at jrun.servlet.JRunInvokerChain.invokeNext(JRunInvokerChain.java:42)
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jrun.servlet.JRunRequestDispatcher.invoke(JRunRequestDispatcher.java:
257)
at
jrun.servlet.ServletEngineService.dispatch(ServletEngineService.java:
541)
at
jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyService.invokeRunnable(JRunProxyService.java:
204)
at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool
$DownstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:318)
at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool
$ThreadThrottle.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:426)
at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool
$UpstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:264)
at jrunx.scheduler.WorkerThread.run(WorkerThread.java:66)
|
| | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 07:46:55
From: Paul Berg
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Paul Borg wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:46:11 -0700, Paul Berg wrote:
>
> > `
> > I had no problem viewing the images of Don Homuth's Datsun Z. And, a
> > right beauty it is too.
> >
> > I have no idea what Steven's problem is. Or, should I said "problems
> > are".
> >
> > `
>
> I must say, trollish crossposting and posting binaries to text newsgroups
> is pretty advanced for a webtv user.
~
I can't help it, if Paul BORG, is unable to do it.
Like I have said before, I'll post what I want, where I want and how I
want.
Now Master BORG, go out and have a nice day.
Paul Berg
~
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 05:46:11
From: Paul Berg
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
--WebTV-Mail-5411-191
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
`
I had no problem viewing the images of Don Homuth's Datsun Z. And, a
right beauty it is too.
I have no idea what Steven's problem is. Or, should I said "problems
are".
`
--WebTV-Mail-5411-191
Content-Description: signature
Content-Disposition: Inline
Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
<html ><img
src="http://www.northwestz.org/members/images/0E0994A3-3048-2906-B4AFBB74B770A1B4.jpg"
width=100% ></html>
--WebTV-Mail-5411-191--
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 07:30:15
From: Paul Borg
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:46:11 -0700, Paul Berg wrote:
> `
> I had no problem viewing the images of Don Homuth's Datsun Z. And, a
> right beauty it is too.
>
> I have no idea what Steven's problem is. Or, should I said "problems
> are".
>
> `
I must say, trollish crossposting and posting binaries to text newsgroups
is pretty advanced for a webtv user.
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:51:24
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:46:11 -0700, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
wrote:
>`
>I had no problem viewing the images of Don Homuth's Datsun Z. And, a
>right beauty it is too.
Wait till it comes out of the shop -- which, if things go well, ought
to be soon. Ran into some minor problems with the rear hatch having a
corrosion spot. Got that fixed with some bother, and now things are
progressing nicely.
The best part, of course, was replacing all the suspension bushings
with proper plastic parts -- that tightened things up considerably.
And all of the rubber bits -- the plugs and spacers, etc -- have also
been replaced, along with all the seals around windshields, etc.
It will please Me greatly to have it back in Excellent condition once
again, after thirty years.
I'll post some pictures to the NWZ club site.
|
| |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 19:54:06
From: Brian Huntley
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>
> Nope.
>
> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
Dang - I was expecting a '73 B210. Now *that* was a stealth vehicle.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 18:13:44
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
In article
<1187146446.329078.100200@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com >
,
Brian Huntley <brian_huntley@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
>
> Dang - I was expecting a '73 B210. Now *that* was a stealth vehicle.
I ran around in a 510. Less expensive to run than a BMW.
--
Michael Press
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:48:43
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:54:06 -0700, Brian Huntley
<brian_huntley@hotmail.com > wrote:
>On Aug 14, 2:50 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> >http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileView...
>
>Dang - I was expecting a '73 B210. Now *that* was a stealth vehicle.
The B210 wasn't much, but could be hopped up considerably.
The variations on the 510, however, especially the 2-dr post with the
IRS were among the first pocket rockets.
|
| |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 16:00:59
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 3:43 pm, "Rocky" <bastin...@e-z.net > wrote:
> "John S." <hjs...@cs.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187107775.215026.281460@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 10:57 am, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg) wrote:
> >> ~
>
> >> News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
>
> >> Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
> >> ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
> >> Bridge Ped-debacle.
>
> > Portland should to take lessons in ride management from the 5 Borough
> > bike ride in NYC. Roadways and bridges traversed in early sections of
> > the NYC ride are closed off to automobile traffic. It's only later in
> > the ride when the line stretches out that bikes and cars share the
> > same road. The only significant delay was getting that very long
> > snake of 30,000 riders going. One steep bridge did have a slowdown as
> > out of shape riders walked over. Done properly it can be fun riding
> > with 30,000 of my closest cycling buddies.
>
> > The NYC event is well organized throughout, with several well spaced
> > break areas and sag wagons.
>
> For those unfamiliar with this venue Portland is a city built at the
> confluence of 2 rivers. To get anywhere you have to cross a bridge, usually
> one over the Willamette river which runs N-S.
>
> These bridges are always closed (at least partially) for this ride as it is
> not possible any other way.
I understood that they were partially closed and riders had one lane.
If that is the case then Portland has to decide whether they are going
to manage this race properly or not. Full closure of the needed roads
and bridges on a saturday is really the only way to move that many
riders of widely verying skills. It may take a redesign of the course
to encourage stretching out of the line as is done in NYC. Use of
break points will also help stagger the load.
>
> IMHO it is the greed of the organizers to maximize the funds raised that
> results in this chaos. It is clear to anyone who can think clearly that
> you must limit the number of riders especially as there are several choke
> points as the story described. At at least one you have to wait without
> moving for at an hour or more to get through.
Since it is a benefit ride I doubt greed plays much into the
decisions. I suspect that it is more the results of a volunteer
organization taking on a big challenge. It really is not all that
difficult to think through how to control and minimize choke points.
NYC manages to do it very well with 32,000 riders this year.
>
> When I do this ride I will only start in the first group which leaves at
> 6:30 (or maybe it's 7 am - didn't do it this year) thus avoiding all of the
> problems. The 20K riders lined up behind me are nuts to even try. It's a
> walk, not a ride if you're in the back.
>
> If you avoid the rush this way it is a very fun ride with parties and
> fabulous views of Portland from the freeway bridges. That is why people do
> it - you can't stop on the freeway bridges and hang out during rush hour.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
| | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 14:19:58
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com > wrote in message
news:1187132459.023905.110890@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> I understood that they were partially closed and riders had one lane.
> If that is the case then Portland has to decide whether they are going
> to manage this race properly or not. Full closure of the needed roads
> and bridges on a saturday is really the only way to move that many
> riders of widely verying skills.
It takes place on Sunday not Saturday. Saturday would not work at
all, too much commercial traffic.
> It may take a redesign of the course
> to encourage stretching out of the line as is done in NYC. Use of
> break points will also help stagger the load.
>
Dedicated riders do this ride without having to stop at break points. They
may stop to get a longer look at the view or more pictures but not because
they have to.
>
> >
> > IMHO it is the greed of the organizers to maximize the funds raised that
> > results in this chaos. It is clear to anyone who can think clearly
that
> > you must limit the number of riders especially as there are several
choke
> > points as the story described. At at least one you have to wait without
> > moving for at an hour or more to get through.
>
>
> Since it is a benefit ride I doubt greed plays much into the
> decisions.
Wrong. If greed wasn't involved then they would have refunded the
money for the start fee to the people they didn't allow to start. Remember
these people had been given late starting times then they got to the
ride at the time and were told to go home, no refunds. That is greed.
I suspect that it is more the results of a volunteer
> organization taking on a big challenge. It really is not all that
> difficult to think through how to control and minimize choke points.
> NYC manages to do it very well with 32,000 riders this year.
>
This volunteer organization has been doing this ride for years and has
plenty of experience with routing it. As the other poster said, they
are being greedy. In actuality they are trying to play a game of chicken
with the city. They are telling people they won't put a signup limit on the
ride, then pissing off people with reserved start times they have paid for
by taking their money and denying them the ride, then they are blaming
it on the city. The idea is to get enough people complaining to the city
so that next year they can pressure the city into allowing the ride to go on
until 1:00pm. Then more people will come and the year after that they
will push for 2:00pm. And after 5-6 years they will have the bridges
tied up for the entire day.
Ted
|
| |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 13:13:28
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 12:08 pm, "Jim Flom" <jim.flomREM...@telus.net > wrote:
> "steve" <st...@steve.com> wrote...
>
> > What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding,
> > and
> > it obviously screws up traffic.
>
> I did a mass start for a century in Bellingham a week ago and I've never
> been around a squirellier bunch of riders.
Yep, when they get some experience they'll be Cat5s. It's why bike
paths are scary too.
Bill C
|
| |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 09:09:35
From: John S.
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 14, 10:57 am, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg) wrote:
> ~
>
> News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
>
> Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
> ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
> Bridge Ped-debacle.
Portland should to take lessons in ride management from the 5 Borough
bike ride in NYC. Roadways and bridges traversed in early sections of
the NYC ride are closed off to automobile traffic. It's only later in
the ride when the line stretches out that bikes and cars share the
same road. The only significant delay was getting that very long
snake of 30,000 riders going. One steep bridge did have a slowdown as
out of shape riders walked over. Done properly it can be fun riding
with 30,000 of my closest cycling buddies.
The NYC event is well organized throughout, with several well spaced
break areas and sag wagons.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 15:44:20
From: dgk
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:09:35 -0700, "John S." <hjsjms@cs.com > wrote:
>On Aug 14, 10:57 am, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg) wrote:
>> ~
>>
>> News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
>>
>> Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
>> ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
>> Bridge Ped-debacle.
>
>
>Portland should to take lessons in ride management from the 5 Borough
>bike ride in NYC. Roadways and bridges traversed in early sections of
>the NYC ride are closed off to automobile traffic. It's only later in
>the ride when the line stretches out that bikes and cars share the
>same road. The only significant delay was getting that very long
>snake of 30,000 riders going. One steep bridge did have a slowdown as
>out of shape riders walked over. Done properly it can be fun riding
>with 30,000 of my closest cycling buddies.
>
>The NYC event is well organized throughout, with several well spaced
>break areas and sag wagons.
True, the 5bbr is very well run. NYC is nowhere near as bike friendly
as Portland, but this ride is usually a pleasure. I've been doing it
for the last 7 or 8 years and have a friend who has done it every year
since it started.
Getting the line moving is a problem, but it's almost automatic after
that. We usually get to Astoria Park pretty early and there you have
to wait 20 minutes or so until the second part begins, but everyone
sits around and eats the free stuff and gets ready to move out, and
then we move right along.
I always feel really bad for the folks who are trapped in their cars
on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway (BQE). Once they close that off,
they just sit there for a few hours it seems. There really should be
better signage warning folks not to get on.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 12:43:24
From: Rocky
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"John S." <hjsjms@cs.com > wrote in message
news:1187107775.215026.281460@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 10:57 am, pjb...@webtv.net (Paul Berg) wrote:
>> ~
>>
>> News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 14, 2007
>>
>> Officially, it's called the Providence Bridge Pedal. But the annual bike
>> ride over Portland's bridges earned a new name Sunday -- Providence
>> Bridge Ped-debacle.
>
>
> Portland should to take lessons in ride management from the 5 Borough
> bike ride in NYC. Roadways and bridges traversed in early sections of
> the NYC ride are closed off to automobile traffic. It's only later in
> the ride when the line stretches out that bikes and cars share the
> same road. The only significant delay was getting that very long
> snake of 30,000 riders going. One steep bridge did have a slowdown as
> out of shape riders walked over. Done properly it can be fun riding
> with 30,000 of my closest cycling buddies.
>
> The NYC event is well organized throughout, with several well spaced
> break areas and sag wagons.
>
For those unfamiliar with this venue Portland is a city built at the
confluence of 2 rivers. To get anywhere you have to cross a bridge, usually
one over the Willamette river which runs N-S.
These bridges are always closed (at least partially) for this ride as it is
not possible any other way.
IMHO it is the greed of the organizers to maximize the funds raised that
results in this chaos. It is clear to anyone who can think clearly that
you must limit the number of riders especially as there are several choke
points as the story described. At at least one you have to wait without
moving for at an hour or more to get through.
When I do this ride I will only start in the first group which leaves at
6:30 (or maybe it's 7 am - didn't do it this year) thus avoiding all of the
problems. The 20K riders lined up behind me are nuts to even try. It's a
walk, not a ride if you're in the back.
If you avoid the rush this way it is a very fun ride with parties and
fabulous views of Portland from the freeway bridges. That is why people do
it - you can't stop on the freeway bridges and hang out during rush hour.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42
From: steve
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg) blindly
formulated
the following incoherence:
> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts of
> the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
> 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
> Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other spans
> as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists,
> frustrated, left the course on their own.
What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding, and
it obviously screws up traffic.
--
"The accused will now make a bogus statement."
James Joyce
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 18:16:44
From: Steven
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 2:58 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:38:10 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>
> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
> >> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
> >> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
> >> knockoff wheels.
>
> >Sad. Very sad.
>
> Yeah -- I've owned some pretty neat cars in my life, but that's The
> One I regret having sold.
>
> Ah well -- I'm not the only former Corvette owners who tells that same
> story.
>
> Corvettes get girls.
>
> One of the girls becomes a wife.
>
> Wife knows that Corvettes get girls and wants it gone.
>
> It's one of those Territorial Things, apparently.
Corvettes are a procreational toolbox for the Church?
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 14:03:43
From: lein
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Aug 15, 1:58 pm, Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:38:10 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>
> <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> As I've said, I have regretted selling it ever since. Even now there
> >> is a picture of it on the bulletin board above my desk that I look at
> >> an remember -- right down to the side exhausts and Kelsey-Hayes
> >> knockoff wheels.
>
> >Sad. Very sad.
>
> Yeah -- I've owned some pretty neat cars in my life, but that's The
> One I regret having sold.
>
> Ah well -- I'm not the only former Corvette owners who tells that same
> story.
>
> Corvettes get girls.
>
> One of the girls becomes a wife.
>
> Wife knows that Corvettes get girls and wants it gone.
>
> It's one of those Territorial Things, apparently.
You should get a Harley, you could put a little Vietnam MIA flag on
the handlebars.
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 14:05:55
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:03:43 -0700, lein <boomer_the_cat@my-deja.com >
wrote:
>You should get a Harley,
I have considered a motorcycle, but it wouldn't be a H-D.
Maybe a 1976-78 Honda GL-1000.
>... you could put a little Vietnam MIA flag on
>the handlebars.
I could. But wouldn't.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 20:30:15
From: David L. Johnson
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
steve wrote:
> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg) blindly
> formulated
> the following incoherence:
>
>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts of
>> the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
>> 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
>> Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other spans
>> as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists,
>> frustrated, left the course on their own.
>
> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding, and
> it obviously screws up traffic.
I was going to ask just that question. No one I've talked to who rode
the 5-Borough tour of New York would do it again, but still they have
thousands and thousands of people riding it. They've started one in
Philadelphia as well this year.
I just don't get the appeal.
--
David L. Johnson
It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster.
--Greg LeMond
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 03:02:28
From: Ted Mittelstaedt
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"David L. Johnson" <david.johnson@lehigh.edu > wrote in message
news:_eSdnRmqMdOO1F_bnZ2dnUVZ_srinZ2d@ptd.net...
> steve wrote:
> > On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
blindly
> > formulated
> > the following incoherence:
> >
> >> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts of
> >> the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
> >> 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
> >> Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other spans
> >> as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other
cyclists,
> >> frustrated, left the course on their own.
> >
> > What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding,
and
> > it obviously screws up traffic.
>
> I was going to ask just that question. No one I've talked to who rode
> the 5-Borough tour of New York would do it again, but still they have
> thousands and thousands of people riding it. They've started one in
> Philadelphia as well this year.
>
> I just don't get the appeal.
>
If you are in shape and have trained it is a very nice ride, early in the
morning with blue sky and the crisp air. The views from the bridges
are spectacular and when you drive over them in a car you go so fast
you really don't see or pay attention much. The rises on the entrances
to the bridges are gentle enough that a rider in shape would hardly break
a sweat going up them. And the architecture of the bridges that they
go over is facinating. If you were to see pictures taken along the route
you would understand why it is popular.
Ted
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 09:54:07
From: Gattman
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"steve" <steve@steve.com > wrote in message
news:q5idnQGOVPdBU1zbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding,
> and
> it obviously screws up traffic.
It's a fund-raiser. I have a friend who trains for it and then flies out
from Virginia every year just for the ride.
-c
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 10:08:21
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:54:07 -0700, "Gattman"
<gatt@damnnearwiley00.com > wrote:
>
>"steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote in message
>news:q5idnQGOVPdBU1zbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding,
>> and
>> it obviously screws up traffic.
>
>It's a fund-raiser. I have a friend who trains for it and then flies out
>from Virginia every year just for the ride.
Careful there, Chris. If you mention that you "have a friend" folks
like the Three Monkeys will determine that you do not.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 18:59:22
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:54:07 -0700, "Gattman"
> <gatt@damnnearwiley00.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote in message
>>news:q5idnQGOVPdBU1zbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>>
>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>> riding, and
>>> it obviously screws up traffic.
>>
>>It's a fund-raiser. I have a friend who trains for it and then flies
>>out from Virginia every year just for the ride.
>
> Careful there, Chris. If you mention that you "have a friend" folks
> like the Three Monkeys will determine that you do not.
>
Notice that his friend was not a Transportation Expert who knew how to
clean up the traffic jam? Didja?
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 12:31:44
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:59:22 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:54:07 -0700, "Gattman"
>> <gatt@damnnearwiley00.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote in message
>>>news:q5idnQGOVPdBU1zbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>>>
>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>> riding, and
>>>> it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>
>>>It's a fund-raiser. I have a friend who trains for it and then flies
>>>out from Virginia every year just for the ride.
>>
>> Careful there, Chris. If you mention that you "have a friend" folks
>> like the Three Monkeys will determine that you do not.
>>
>Notice that his friend was not a Transportation Expert who knew how to
>clean up the traffic jam? Didja?
I did notice that.
But then, neither was mine.
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:05:53
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:59:22 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:54:07 -0700, "Gattman"
>>> <gatt@damnnearwiley00.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:q5idnQGOVPdBU1zbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>>>>
>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>> riding, and
>>>>> it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>
>>>>It's a fund-raiser. I have a friend who trains for it and then flies
>>>>out from Virginia every year just for the ride.
>>>
>>> Careful there, Chris. If you mention that you "have a friend" folks
>>> like the Three Monkeys will determine that you do not.
>>>
>>Notice that his friend was not a Transportation Expert who knew how to
>>clean up the traffic jam? Didja?
>
> I did notice that.
>
> But then, neither was mine.
>
Damn sure he was no Expert.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 16:08:41
From: Jim Flom
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
"steve" <steve@steve.com > wrote...
>
> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding,
> and
> it obviously screws up traffic.
I did a mass start for a century in Bellingham a week ago and I've never
been around a squirellier bunch of riders.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 09:06:39
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com > wrote:
>On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg) blindly
>formulated
>the following incoherence:
>
>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts of
>> the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated record
>> 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the ride.
>> Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and other spans
>> as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists,
>> frustrated, left the course on their own.
>
>What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good riding, and
>it obviously screws up traffic.
Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>
>>On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>blindly formulated
>>the following incoherence:
>>
>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts
>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic.
>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>
>>What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>
> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>
> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>
They disrupt regular traffic?
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| | | | |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 12:30:34
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>blindly formulated
>>>the following incoherence:
>>>
>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts
>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic.
>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>>
>>>What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>
>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>
>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>
>They disrupt regular traffic?
Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
back.
But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
pre-restoration.
|
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:03:37
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net > wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>>blindly formulated
>>>>the following incoherence:
>>>>
>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along
>>>>> parts of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the
>>>>> estimated record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to
>>>>> complete the ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the
>>>>> Fremont Bridge and other spans as authorities sought to reopen
>>>>> them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists, frustrated, left the
>>>>> course on their own.
>>>>
>>>>What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>
>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>
>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>
>>They disrupt regular traffic?
>
> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
But do they deliberately disrupt traffic?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:57:23
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:03:37 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net > wrote:
>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>>>blindly formulated
>>>>>the following incoherence:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along
>>>>>> parts of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the
>>>>>> estimated record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to
>>>>>> complete the ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the
>>>>>> Fremont Bridge and other spans as authorities sought to reopen
>>>>>> them to vehicle traffic. Other cyclists, frustrated, left the
>>>>>> course on their own.
>>>>>
>>>>>What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>>riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>
>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>
>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>
>>>They disrupt regular traffic?
>>
>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>
>But do they deliberately disrupt traffic?
Absolutely -- and smile when they do it.
|
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21
From: Royal Dalton
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>> blindly formulated
>>>> the following incoherence:
>>>>
>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts
>>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic.
>>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>
>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>
>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>
> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>
> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
> back.
>
> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
> pre-restoration.
http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
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| | | | | | |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 12:50:01
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea >
wrote:
>Don Homuth wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>>> blindly formulated
>>>>> the following incoherence:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts
>>>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic.
>>>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>
>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>
>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>
>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>>
>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
>> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
>> back.
>>
>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>> pre-restoration.
>
>http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
Nope.
http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileViewChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B417605-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39
From: Royal Dalton
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
> wrote:
>
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>>>> blindly formulated
>>>>>> the following incoherence:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along parts
>>>>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>>>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>>>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>>>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle traffic.
>>>>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>
>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>>
>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>>>
>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
>>> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
>>> back.
>>>
>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>> pre-restoration.
>> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>
> Nope.
I like the blue one better.
>
> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileViewChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B417605-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 00:35:03
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Royal Dalton wrote:
> Don Homuth wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul Berg)
>>>>>>> blindly formulated
>>>>>>> the following incoherence:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along
>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>>>>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>>>>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>>>>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle
>>>>>>>> traffic.
>>>>>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>>>
>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>>>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>>>>
>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
>>>> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
>>>> back.
>>>>
>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>>> pre-restoration.
>>> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>>
>> Nope.
>
> I like the blue one better.
>>
>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileViewChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B417605-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
I want a B210 "Honey Bee". :)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:02:02
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Royal Dalton wrote:
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 14-Aug-2007, smacked up and reeling, pjberg@webtv.net (Paul
>>>>>>>> Berg)
>>>>>>>> blindly formulated
>>>>>>>> the following incoherence:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bottlenecks not only forced cyclists to walk their bikes along
>>>>>>>>> parts
>>>>>>>>> of the course, but also meant as many as 1,500 of the estimated
>>>>>>>>> record 19,000 cyclists in the event were unable to complete the
>>>>>>>>> ride. Organizers barred them from crossing the Fremont Bridge and
>>>>>>>>> other spans as authorities sought to reopen them to vehicle
>>>>>>>>> traffic.
>>>>>>>>> Other cyclists, frustrated, left the course on their own.
>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>>>>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
>>>>> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
>>>>> back.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>>>> pre-restoration.
>>>> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?page=4&t=17399
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>
>> I like the blue one better.
>>>
>>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileViewChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B417605-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>
>
> I want a B210 "Honey Bee". :)
>
Gawd, those were so awesomely UGLY!
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 13:10:05
From: Don Homuth
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea >
wrote:
>Don Homuth wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>>>
>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>>>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>>>>
>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
>>>> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
>>>> back.
>>>>
>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>>> pre-restoration.
>
>I like the blue one better.
>>
>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileViewChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B417605-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
De gustibus, and all.
Mine is still a work in progress.
When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does will
be immaterial.
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 20:45:38
From: Royal Dalton
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Don Homuth wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
> wrote:
>
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be good
>>>>>>>> riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a tour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column of a
>>>>> couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty noticeable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't gone
>>>>> on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club several months
>>>>> back.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>>>> pre-restoration.
>> I like the blue one better.
>>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileViewChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B417605-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>
> De gustibus, and all.
>
> Mine is still a work in progress.
>
> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does will
> be immaterial.
I still like the blue one.
|
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:04:37
From: Lobby Dosser
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea > wrote:
> Don Homuth wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be
>>>>>>>>> good riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a
>>>>>>>> tour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column
>>>>>> of a couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty
>>>>>> noticeable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't
>>>>>> gone on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club
>>>>>> several months back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>>>>> pre-restoration.
>>> I like the blue one better.
>>>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileVie
>>>> wChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B4176
>>>> 05-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>>
>> De gustibus, and all.
>>
>> Mine is still a work in progress.
>>
>> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does
>> will be immaterial.
>
> I still like the blue one.
>
They're all Crap.
|
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:07:09
From: Niobrara
Subject: Re: Portland's Bridge Pedal Debacle
|
Lobby Dosser wrote:
> Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea> wrote:
>
>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:04:39 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:44:21 GMT, Royal Dalton <catcher@rye.tea>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don Homuth wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:57:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
>>>>>>> <lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don Homuth <dhomuthoneatcomcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:48:42 GMT, "steve" <steve@steve.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is the point of these mass rides, anyway? It cant be
>>>>>>>>>> good riding, and it obviously screws up traffic.
>>>>>>>>> Just for the sheer fun of doing it, apparently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My Datsun club does the same thing when it does a cruise or a
>>>>>>>>> tour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They disrupt regular traffic?
>>>>>>> Sometimes they have done exactly that, so I hear. A long column
>>>>>>> of a couple dozen Datsuns of various vintages can be pretty
>>>>>>> noticeable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mine has been in the restoration shop long enough that I haven't
>>>>>>> gone on one of those, since I only actually Joined the club
>>>>>>> several months back.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if you check, you can even see pictures of the car
>>>>>>> pre-restoration.
>>>> I like the blue one better.
>>>>> http://www.northwestz.org/members/handler.cfm?event=MemberProfileVie
>>>>> wChanged&userId=3503C8E7-3048-2906-B43387A57222B78B&vehicleId=4B4176
>>>>> 05-3048-2906-B4AB17E14285BEF6
>>> De gustibus, and all.
>>>
>>> Mine is still a work in progress.
>>>
>>> When it's done, I will like it. Whether or not someone else does
>>> will be immaterial.
>> I still like the blue one.
>>
>
> They're all Crap.
Not saying I'd take one over a nice E type mind you, but the Zs were
good for the day.
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