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Main
Date: 18 May 2007 18:04:06
From: Bill C
Subject: Psychological addiction
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This is something I've been wondering about since the latest spouting
by, and pictures of Jason Giambi.
The withdrawal from steroids and other "muscle building" drugs can be
brutal for strength athletes. It's partially the loss of strength,
slower recovery, and the much lower volume of work they can do without
overtraining, but what is really murder, especially for bodybuilders
is watching themselves, literally, shrink within weeks. Bodybuilders
spend massive amounts of time in front of full length mirrors for
various reasons; some better than others and kill themselves to get
the full benefit of steroids and such.
Between the loss of performance, the loss of strength, and the loss
of size in the mirror it's brutal psychologically. That's a huge
reason that non-competitive types use the stuff and don't get off it
despite all the health problems they KNOW go with it. It's all well
documented, and I can provide lots of anecdotes witnessed first hand.
Guys in the gym openly discuss this stuff in in front of, and with
people who seem hardcore and safe.
I really wonder about EPO and stuff. It doesn't allow, or make the
massive physical changes externally that steroids and HGH,
respectively do, but it does allow much better performance if you have
the balls to suffer for it, like steroids.
I have never heard riders discussing this openly, but I'm not at the
level where I'd expect that to happen and the pros I'm closest to are
incredibly anti-doping and I'd bet everything I own on it that they've
never used EPO or blood doping.
Has anyone heard, or read any firsthand accounts or seen studies on
this for the stuff used in cycling? I can picture it pretty easily
because I'd love to be able to go longer and faster, or both and we
all know how good those good days feel. If epo could turn most days
into good days, that would seem to be incredibly addictive. Especially
if it allowed getting into the endorphins in a big way much easier.
Any thoughts or stories?
Bill C
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Date: 19 May 2007 12:58:33
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Psychological addiction
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On May 19, 2:05 am, "Tom Grosman" <gros...@aonix.fr > wrote:
> I've had several tears experience taking EPO and can state that I've noticed
> no psychological dependence as you describe,
Dumbass -
Taking it for illness or performance enhancement?
just curious,
K. Gringioni.
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Date: 19 May 2007 11:05:21
From: Tom Grosman
Subject: Re: Psychological addiction
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"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > a écrit dans le message de news:
1179536646.742154.307610@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
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Date: 19 May 2007 19:22:50
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Psychological addiction
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In article <464ebdd5$0$9710$426a34cc@news.free.fr >,
"Tom Grosman" <grosman@aonix.fr > wrote:
>
> I've had several tears experience taking EPO and can state that I've noticed
> no psychological dependence as you describe, either while takiing it, or
> after having stopped taking it.
Thanks, for this.
> As far as endorphin production, it's thought
> that lactic acid produces acidosis which stimulate the pitituary to release
> endorphons, so it's the anaerobic activity which is responsible for the
> endorphins in so far as it causes an increase of lactic acid concentration.
Lactic acid your friend. Acidosis is the problem and
each molecule of lactic acid represents one buffered
H+. Lactic acid diffuses out of the cell, carrying with
it that troublesome H+. Here is the story.
<URL:http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/287/3/R502 >
--
Michael Press
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Date: 18 May 2007 19:55:20
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Psychological addiction
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Bill C wrote:
> This is something I've been wondering about since the latest spouting
> by, and pictures of Jason Giambi.
> The withdrawal from steroids and other "muscle building" drugs can be
> brutal for strength athletes. It's partially the loss of strength,
> slower recovery, and the much lower volume of work they can do without
> overtraining, but what is really murder, especially for bodybuilders
> is watching themselves, literally, shrink within weeks. Bodybuilders
> spend massive amounts of time in front of full length mirrors for
> various reasons; some better than others and kill themselves to get
> the full benefit of steroids and such.
> Between the loss of performance, the loss of strength, and the loss
> of size in the mirror it's brutal psychologically. That's a huge
> reason that non-competitive types use the stuff and don't get off it
> despite all the health problems they KNOW go with it. It's all well
> documented, and I can provide lots of anecdotes witnessed first hand.
> Guys in the gym openly discuss this stuff in in front of, and with
> people who seem hardcore and safe.
> I really wonder about EPO and stuff. It doesn't allow, or make the
> massive physical changes externally that steroids and HGH,
> respectively do, but it does allow much better performance if you have
> the balls to suffer for it, like steroids.
> I have never heard riders discussing this openly, but I'm not at the
> level where I'd expect that to happen and the pros I'm closest to are
> incredibly anti-doping and I'd bet everything I own on it that they've
> never used EPO or blood doping.
> Has anyone heard, or read any firsthand accounts or seen studies on
> this for the stuff used in cycling? I can picture it pretty easily
> because I'd love to be able to go longer and faster, or both and we
> all know how good those good days feel. If epo could turn most days
> into good days, that would seem to be incredibly addictive. Especially
> if it allowed getting into the endorphins in a big way much easier.
> Any thoughts or stories?
> Bill C
A good, classic read that gets at your question indirectly -
Outside Magazine's "Drug Test" by Stuart Stevens
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html
P. 10 (it's a /long/ read) starts to get to your question a little more
directly.
Mark J.
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Date: 18 May 2007 21:09:08
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Psychological addiction
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On 18 May 2007 18:04:06 -0700, Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote:
> Has anyone heard, or read any firsthand accounts or seen studies on
>this for the stuff used in cycling? I can picture it pretty easily
>because I'd love to be able to go longer and faster, or both and we
>all know how good those good days feel. If epo could turn most days
>into good days, that would seem to be incredibly addictive. Especially
>if it allowed getting into the endorphins in a big way much easier.
Not exactly, but in Cyclesport magazine Alan Peiper said he used drugs
(amphetimines I guess) for a small race and he said he felt so great
it scared him. He wrote something like (I'm paraphrasing) "I thought
of just using it from time to time, but I know I have an addictive
peersonality and was worried I wouldn't be able to stop, so I never
did it again."
And in the interview he says in retrospect he wish he had so he could
have one a classic.
--
JT
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