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Main
Date: 15 Jun 2007 13:45:16
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Really Stupid Peloton
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What would cause the peloton to let a group with Vino in it get 4 minutes on
them when tomorrow is a mountain stage?
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 09:58:26
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 18, 4:39 pm, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
> You're the one that thinks I think that Marco Polo sailed to the north
> pole.
Oh, that's right. You think he sailed to the East Pole. OK, I stand
corrected.
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 17:23:24
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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wrote:
> On Jun 18, 4:39 pm, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You're the one that thinks I think that Marco Polo sailed to the north
>> pole.
>
> Oh, that's right. You think he sailed to the East Pole. OK, I stand
> corrected.
I think Tom claimed Marco Polo sailed through the Northwest Passage to
Greenland. The implication was that this was possible because it was
during the Medieval Warm Period.
--
Bill Asher
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 07:39:38
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 17, 10:17 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 18, 4:18 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > You showed a single race in which there was a slight jump from the top three
> > riders to the rest of the peloton which tailed off in nicely reducing
> > average speeds.
>
> > Now you're trying to say that you weren't trying to imply anything at all.
>
> > Righto. But of course if you'd done other races - say those before the
> > available drugs didn't really increase performance and at best only reduced
> > the pain for stage racers - maybe it would have looked the same or perhaps
> > even more extreme. Then what would that do with your implications?
>
> I'd ask "what implications do you think you see?" but we already know
> you're a nut who thinks Marco Polo sailed to the North Pole. So you
> think the psychiatrist was implying with the Rohrschach test?
You're the one that thinks I think that Marco Polo sailed to the north
pole. What I've said and what several books have been written about is
the fact that in the medieval warm period the ice pack withdrew so far
that boats would sail above the latitude of the northwest passage
without seeing ice.
I realize how the idea that weather changes threatens all you, like
REAL(tm) "scientists" but I suppose that your method of presenting
data in a manner to alude to something without actually stating it is
your way of being really smart.
Astana looked really good in the Dauphine. So what?
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 07:31:26
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 17, 7:33 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jun 17, 10:18 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > Righto. But of course if you'd done other races - say those before the
> > available drugs didn't really increase performance and at best only reduced
> > the pain for stage racers - maybe it would have looked the same or perhaps
> > even more extreme. Then what would that do with your implications?
>
> moron,
>
> the thread was about astana and how good they were, not about other
> races. why would chung make a plot from data from other races ?
Oh, I don't know - why did he make that graph in the first place if he
wasn't trying to imply things left unsaid?
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 22:17:03
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 18, 4:18 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> You showed a single race in which there was a slight jump from the top three
> riders to the rest of the peloton which tailed off in nicely reducing
> average speeds.
>
> Now you're trying to say that you weren't trying to imply anything at all.
>
> Righto. But of course if you'd done other races - say those before the
> available drugs didn't really increase performance and at best only reduced
> the pain for stage racers - maybe it would have looked the same or perhaps
> even more extreme. Then what would that do with your implications?
I'd ask "what implications do you think you see?" but we already know
you're a nut who thinks Marco Polo sailed to the North Pole. So you
think the psychiatrist was implying with the Rohrschach test? Here are
a couple more inkblots:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/giro05-8.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/giro06-11.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/olytt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf05-1.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf05-4.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf06-7.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/u23tt2004.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta04tt15.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta04tt8.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta05-20.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/world03tt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/world04tt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/world05tt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/world06tt.png
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 05:03:38
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 16, 7:24 am, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM > wrote:
> On Jun 16, 5:55 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Knock yourself out, big guy:
> http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
>
> Great! Thanks, I followed a few Tours that I'd forgotten. Too bad
> Maertens couldn't climb just a little better in 76. 1975 Merckx loses
> the Tour to a punch in the liver. How come nobody gets punched in the
> liver nowadays?
>
They still get punched in the liver (or kidneys) but now
they're a bunch of dirty dopers that aren't affected by
punches to the gut (or even organ failure). Antoine
Vayer wrote an article proving this. It just isn't
the same as when I was young.
Sincerely,
Brian LaForte'
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 10:05:44
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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> They still get punched in the liver (or kidneys) but now
> they're a bunch of dirty dopers that aren't affected by
> punches to the gut (or even organ failure). Antoine
> Vayer wrote an article proving this. It just isn't
> the same as when I was young.
Yes, who ever heard of a robocop being stopped by a measly punch in the
liver (or kidneys).
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 05:00:07
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 16, 2:55 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 15, 11:36 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
>
> > Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
>
> Knock yourself out, big guy:
> http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/images/tour_de_france/thevenet_tdf1975.jpg
Why is Floyd wearing a Peugeot/BP jersey?
Ben
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 02:33:19
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 17, 10:18 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> Righto. But of course if you'd done other races - say those before the
> available drugs didn't really increase performance and at best only reduced
> the pain for stage racers - maybe it would have looked the same or perhaps
> even more extreme. Then what would that do with your implications?
moron,
the thread was about astana and how good they were, not about other
races. why would chung make a plot from data from other races ?
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 23:50:48
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 17, 12:22 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> I'm not the one presenting this data as if it were unusual - you are.
A psychiatrist is doing a Rohrschach test on a patient. The patient
looks at the first inkblot and says, "two women, holding guns, eating
pancakes." The doctor shows the next image. The patient says, "two
women, holding guns, eating pancakes." Surprised, the doctor presents
a third. The patient say, "two women, holding guns, eating pancakes."
The doctor puts down the stack and says, "you see this in all these
pictures?" The patient says, "Hey, doc, I'm not the one presenting the
pictures of two women holding guns eating pancakes -- you are."
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 02:18:24
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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<rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1182063048.053770.296790@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 17, 12:22 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not the one presenting this data as if it were unusual - you are.
>
> A psychiatrist is doing a Rohrschach test on a patient. The patient
> looks at the first inkblot and says, "two women, holding guns, eating
> pancakes." The doctor shows the next image. The patient says, "two
> women, holding guns, eating pancakes." Surprised, the doctor presents
> a third. The patient say, "two women, holding guns, eating pancakes."
> The doctor puts down the stack and says, "you see this in all these
> pictures?" The patient says, "Hey, doc, I'm not the one presenting the
> pictures of two women holding guns eating pancakes -- you are."
You showed a single race in which there was a slight jump from the top three
riders to the rest of the peloton which tailed off in nicely reducing
average speeds.
Now you're trying to say that you weren't trying to imply anything at all.
Righto. But of course if you'd done other races - say those before the
available drugs didn't really increase performance and at best only reduced
the pain for stage racers - maybe it would have looked the same or perhaps
even more extreme. Then what would that do with your implications?
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 09:03:26
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com writes:
> On Jun 17, 12:22 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not the one presenting this data as if it were unusual - you are.
>
> A psychiatrist is doing a Rohrschach test on a patient. The patient
> looks at the first inkblot and says, "two women, holding guns, eating
> pancakes." The doctor shows the next image. The patient says, "two
> women, holding guns, eating pancakes." Surprised, the doctor presents
> a third. The patient say, "two women, holding guns, eating pancakes."
> The doctor puts down the stack and says, "you see this in all these
> pictures?" The patient says, "Hey, doc, I'm not the one presenting the
> pictures of two women holding guns eating pancakes -- you are."
>
didn't hear that one for about 50 years
it used to be:
wassat?
couple firkin'
shows another blob
wassat?
couple firkin'
it's easy to diagnose you - you're a sex maniac
hey doc, you're the one drawing the dirty pictures
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 16:01:14
From: Andre
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 16, 11:41 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 16, 10:24 am, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 16, 5:55 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 15, 11:36 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > > > >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
>
> > > > Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
>
> > > Knock yourself out, big guy:http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
>
> > Great! Thanks, I followed a few Tours that I'd forgotten. Too bad
> > Maertens couldn't climb just a little better in 76. 1975 Merckx loses
> > the Tour to a punch in the liver. How come nobody gets punched in the
> > liver nowadays?
>
> I thought he was punched in the kidney. Nowadays people get punched
> in the kidneys all of the time. They're talking about doing a remake
> of Breaking Away - instead of a bike pump in the spokes (who carries a
> bike pump during a race, anyway?) Dave Stoller will get punched in the
> kidney. Oh, and the Cinzano team will all be dopers.
>
> R
Good one Rico.
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 08:41:32
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 16, 10:24 am, Andre <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM > wrote:
> On Jun 16, 5:55 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Jun 15, 11:36 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
>
> > > Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
>
> > Knock yourself out, big guy:http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
>
> Great! Thanks, I followed a few Tours that I'd forgotten. Too bad
> Maertens couldn't climb just a little better in 76. 1975 Merckx loses
> the Tour to a punch in the liver. How come nobody gets punched in the
> liver nowadays?
I thought he was punched in the kidney. Nowadays people get punched
in the kidneys all of the time. They're talking about doing a remake
of Breaking Away - instead of a bike pump in the spokes (who carries a
bike pump during a race, anyway?) Dave Stoller will get punched in the
kidney. Oh, and the Cinzano team will all be dopers.
R
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 18:01:20
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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RicodJour wrote:
> Oh, and the Cinzano team will all be dopers.
Is Cinzano a controlled substance ?
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 07:24:48
From: Andre
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 16, 5:55 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 15, 11:36 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
>
> > Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
>
> Knock yourself out, big guy:http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
Great! Thanks, I followed a few Tours that I'd forgotten. Too bad
Maertens couldn't climb just a little better in 76. 1975 Merckx loses
the Tour to a punch in the liver. How come nobody gets punched in the
liver nowadays?
Andre
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 02:55:13
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 15, 11:36 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
>
> Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
Knock yourself out, big guy:
http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 08:57:36
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
Damn! MdC.net is now asking for money for access to other archives
than that of the Tour.
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 09:21:11
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid > writes:
> rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>> http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
>
> Damn! MdC.net is now asking for money for access to other archives
> than that of the Tour.
>
> --
> E. Dronkert
The best archives by a Mile used to be La Gazzetta, but somewhere
around 10 years ago now they started charging a heavy access fee
I guess it is OK if one runs a commercial enterprise, but is out of
the question for the average punter
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 22:22:41
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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<rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181987713.905949.309390@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 15, 11:36 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
>>
>> Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
>
> Knock yourself out, big guy:
> http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1974_1983/tdf1975.php
I'm not the one presenting this data as if it were unusual - you are. I've
run graphs before and I'm not really impressed that there's that curve in
performance. I would expect that in 1986 it would have looked even more
extreme and there wasn't any real doping at that time.
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 13:32:30
From: Bret
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 15, 1:44 pm, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 15, 6:57 pm, Dan Gregory
>
> <dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Am I not the only one who has been finding the Astana performances a
> > little disturbing?
>
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
Thanks for the graph. The gaps in the data are revealing. Everyone who
finished ahead of Millar is obviously blood doping at various levels,
with Vinokourov and Kashechkin packed to the gils. At the opposite
end, the Hushovd group has apparently been selling their blood
regularly, while Wielinga has been selling organs on eBay. The good
news is that 88% of the peloton is clean as a whistle.
Bret
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 12:44:58
From:
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 15, 6:57 pm, Dan Gregory
<dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk > wrote:
> Am I not the only one who has been finding the Astana performances a
> little disturbing?
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 21:36:47
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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<rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181936698.388612.320480@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 15, 6:57 pm, Dan Gregory
> <dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Am I not the only one who has been finding the Astana performances a
>> little disturbing?
>
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/dauphine07itt.png
Why don't you do that with the results from, say, a 1975 Tour de France?
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 10:52:22
From: Andre
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
|
On Jun 15, 12:57 pm, Dan Gregory
<dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk > wrote:
> Bob in CT wrote:
> > Sounds remarkably similar to that Floyd guy and that other peloton, last
> > year.
>
> Am I not the only one who has been finding the Astana performances a
> little disturbing?
The Astana performances are starting to look like the old Discovery
performances.
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 09:12:55
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
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On Jun 15, 7:45 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> What would cause the peloton to let a group with Vino in it get 4 minutes on
> them when tomorrow is a mountain stage?
Maybe after yesterday's performance they didn't see him as that big a
threat for tomorrow (a mistake, I'd think) or maybe it was a function
of AG2R not being strong enough to do anything about it without the
other teams' help, which they weren't willing to provide.
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 12:46:35
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
|
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:12:55 -0400, Scott <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jun 15, 7:45 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> What would cause the peloton to let a group with Vino in it get 4
>> minutes on
>> them when tomorrow is a mountain stage?
>
> Maybe after yesterday's performance they didn't see him as that big a
> threat for tomorrow (a mistake, I'd think) or maybe it was a function
> of AG2R not being strong enough to do anything about it without the
> other teams' help, which they weren't willing to provide.
>
Sounds remarkably similar to that Floyd guy and that other peloton, last
year.
--
Bob in CT
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 17:57:39
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
|
Bob in CT wrote:
> Sounds remarkably similar to that Floyd guy and that other peloton, last
> year.
>
Am I not the only one who has been finding the Astana performances a
little disturbing?
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 18:40:16
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
|
Dan Gregory wrote:
> Bob in CT wrote:
>
>> Sounds remarkably similar to that Floyd guy and that other peloton,
>> last year.
>>
> Am I not the only one who has been finding the Astana performances a
> little disturbing?
They certainly are riding with panache, aren't they?
But I'd never call it disturbing. I'd say disquieting.
Bob Schwartz
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 08:24:32
From: Andre
Subject: Re: Really Stupid Peloton
|
On Jun 15, 9:45 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> What would cause the peloton to let a group with Vino in it get 4 minutes on
> them when tomorrow is a mountain stage?
I was thinking the same thing; Maybe the lack of climbers like
Valverde, Kloden, etc. But then I thought that these cyclists are
using this race as an experiment for their conditioning, not really
interested in the overall standings. Just tweaking their form, and
playing games with the opposition.
Andre
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