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Main
Date: 24 Jul 2007 23:32:36
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Something More Upbeat
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I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that it
was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 11:16:25
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 28, 12:57 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > Speaking of graph smoothing:
> >http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> Why does that remind me of a podium girl I checked recently ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/search?hl=en&group=rec.bicycles.racing&q=%22tit+curve%22
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Date: 13 Aug 2007 11:15:58
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 27, 5:48 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1185519177.724855.252...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 27, 7:55 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > Speaking of graph smoothing:
>
> > >http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> > Hmmm. OTOH, it appears to have some data density.
>
> I'll take it!
>
> I think the WSJ line looks dumb, but I'm pretty sure Mark Thoma's line
> isn't a whole lot better, maybe worse.
I decided you're right -- it is worse. It looks like a linear
regression. Using linear regresssion on something that is curved (by
definition) is lame. Bad data, mixed data, bogus process... it makes
plain old doctored data not look so bad. lol
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:33:21
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 27, 5:59 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Jul 27, 5:48 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> > > Hmmm. OTOH, it appears to have some data density.
>
> > I'll take it!
>
> > I think the WSJ line looks dumb, but I'm pretty sure Mark Thoma's line
> > isn't a whole lot better, maybe worse.
>
> > I'll concede that this is better evidence for the Laffer Squiggle than
> > the Laffer Curve.
>
> Mark Thoma's line uses fewer free parameters and
> runs closer to the data points. Also, he probably
> constrained it to go close to (0,0), since that
> point is fixed. Anyone got the actual data table?
You like apples with your oranges?
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:31:11
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 27, 5:48 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1185519177.724855.252...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 27, 7:55 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > Speaking of graph smoothing:
>
> > >http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> > Hmmm. OTOH, it appears to have some data density.
>
> I'll take it!
>
> I think the WSJ line looks dumb, but I'm pretty sure Mark Thoma's line
> isn't a whole lot better, maybe worse.
It is not worse. The WSJ line doesn't even have the pretense of
looking real. The phony Mark Thomas' line has better fooling quality.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 18:27:39
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 27, 5:11 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
> In article <1185567455.586630.118...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> > The Laffer curve has to exist a priori ...
>
> Well, the Laffer Curve is (and has been) something of a holy grail to supply-side
> adherents but it hasn't been shown yet to actually exist in real life.
It isn't a holy grail. People use the idea as a subtle argument keep
the tax rate down, even if it the argument is technically wrong for a
given economy at some given time. It really isn't that big of a deal
as it is a fairly straightforward and simple concept.
It is actually at the extremes where the concept becomes more dubious,
not the middling regions. (By that I mean it really is questionable
if you can call the theoretical "societies" and "economies" at the
theoretical extremes "the same ones" as "the middling ones." "The
same ones" is so incredibly subjective, and the character differences
at the extremes must be so very great. So if the general concept has
a problem, that is where is lies, not criticism in the manner tax hogs
project.)
In more practical terms it must exist a priori. The reason it can't
actually be empirically well demonstrated is because "society" and
"the economy" isn't a toy model/experiment you can twiddle to get a
satisfactory set of data on. A starting problem is "the economy" is a
very loose and vague fiction. I'm not saying the terminology can't be
useful, it can, but be careful. You can't ceteris paribus a "society"
or an "economy" while doing your Laffer test tweeks.
Why do you think all of them are drawing lines on top of lame data?
They don't have good data -- so they resort to lameness. The reason
you have problems with it is it has been cartoonized and politicized.
It really isn't that big of a deal. Both sides are riddled with smoke
and mirror presentation. It is crap.
All of this is irrelevent, as neither side really bothers to drive to
answering the hard question of why any tax should be at any particular
level.
"It's the spending stupid." --BF, 1759
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Date: 28 Jul 2007 00:59:31
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 27, 5:48 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> > Hmmm. OTOH, it appears to have some data density.
>
> I'll take it!
>
> I think the WSJ line looks dumb, but I'm pretty sure Mark Thoma's line
> isn't a whole lot better, maybe worse.
>
> I'll concede that this is better evidence for the Laffer Squiggle than
> the Laffer Curve.
Mark Thoma's line uses fewer free parameters and
runs closer to the data points. Also, he probably
constrained it to go close to (0,0), since that
point is fixed. Anyone got the actual data table?
I read in a discussion of the original plot that the
Norway point included tax revenue from offshore oil
on the Y-axis, but didn't include this in the tax
rate on the X-axis. Supposedly, if you just
consider non-oil tax rates and revenues, the Norway
point comes down to the other Western European
countries, like the UK. IOW, not only the Laffer
curve fit, but the data, were bungled (or fudged).
Ben
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 13:17:35
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 26, 10:55 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
> Speaking of graph smoothing:
>
> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
This is way off thread and topic now, and it is your fault.
I have my doubts that was "smoothing" or regression at all. It just
looks like drawing a line where "you" decide you want it.
But the line in the second graph is bogus too:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/yet-again-tax-c.html
Even if some mathematical operation is performed correctly, it says
nothing about whether it has any meaning, or the underlying data is
(or not) bogus; it doesn't. It is only a facade of legitimacy.
The Laffer curve has to exist a priori -- that part is not arguable
(unless one adds some twists to language, and that has indeed been
done). That doesn't mean someone can acquire data to demonstrate the
Laffer curve in a real economy.
The actual question right-wingers and left-wingers hissy-fit about is
whether the corporate tax levels are anything close to a point where
cutting them would actually increase revenues. I wouldn't propose to
say the US corporate tax rate is near or at that "point." I don't
know, but I have some doubts.
But wonder what the real question is. Are left-wingers just saying:
"soak them because we can; because we can get more of someone else's
stuff?" Frankly, I have to say yes. They tax because they can. They
don't have another good reason. "Should they(?)" doesn't even seem to
come into the picture. Left-wingers simply seem to be saying "I'll
just tax as heavily as possible until squeezing stops increasing my
revenue." There is no introspection, no justification.
I think during Reagan the corporate rates were higher, so maybe there
was a better chance then that reduced rates increased revenue. I
don't know, and I don't think that is the prime question, although it
would be really stupid to raise rates to a negative return (so it is
something leftists would do).
Should corporations be taxed at all? I don't think they should be
taxed. Therefore the rates are too high, regardless of where the
rates would fall on the Laffer curve if one could actually acquire the
data.
Do you have any rationale of why you think corporate tax rates, or any
tax rates for that matter, should be this or that?
"It's the spending stupid." --BF, 1759
"To the intellectual the social device of capitalism
offers a displeasing picture. Why? In his own terms,
here are self-seeking men in quest of personal aggran-
dizement. How? By providing consumers with things they
want or can be induced to want. The same intellectual,
puzzlingly, is not shocked by the workings of hedonist
democracy; here also self-seeking men accomplish their
aggrandizement by promising to other men things they
want or are induced to demand. The difference seems to
lie mainly in that the capitalist delivers the goods."
--Bertrand de Jouvenel,
_Treatment of Capitalism by Intellectuals_
de Jouvenel tapped his mother-in-law IIRC. Another great Frenchman!!!!
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 17:11:04
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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In article <1185567455.586630.118740@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com > wrote:
> On Jul 26, 10:55 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of graph smoothing:
> >
> > http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> This is way off thread and topic now, and it is your fault.
>
> I have my doubts that was "smoothing" or regression at all. It just
> looks like drawing a line where "you" decide you want it.
Well, of course. I was kidding when I suggested it was a case of smoothing. They
drew that line becuse it allowed them toprove what they wanted.
> But the line in the second graph is bogus too:
>
> http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/07/yet-again-tax-c.html
That graph seems to be how they normally are drawn - averaging the numbers and
ignoring the outliers (and in this instance, Norway is a clear outlier).
> Even if some mathematical operation is performed correctly, it says
> nothing about whether it has any meaning, or the underlying data is
> (or not) bogus; it doesn't. It is only a facade of legitimacy.
>
> The Laffer curve has to exist a priori -- that part is not arguable
> (unless one adds some twists to language, and that has indeed been
> done). That doesn't mean someone can acquire data to demonstrate the
> Laffer curve in a real economy.
Well, the Laffer Curve is (and has been) something of a holy grail to supply-side
adherents but it hasn't been shown yet to actually exist in real life.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 01:05:24
From:
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 27, 8:53 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> I'd think
> about buying one, but I'd be afraid it would always
> pull to the right. Which would be fine if I raced
> crits, but I never liked crits.
Maybe Mancebo could benefit from one.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 06:53:03
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
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On Jul 25, 12:47 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 5:58 am, <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
>
> > Was it a Habanero Cycles frame,http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
> > or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
> > made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
> > Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
> > own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo.
>
> I think Hickey just couldn't stand the thought that all of his Bush
> chickens were coming home to roost and used JFT as a convenient
> excuse.
Perversely, I give Mark some credit for this. I mean,
not for being a torture denialist (IIRC that was one
of the issues of the argument), but I think somewhere
inside he recognized that previous positions (his or
the Admin's) were no longer tenable, and the escalating
cognitive dissonance eventually caused him to flip
his wig. As you said, JFT happened to be the trigger.
The reason I give him credit for flipping his wig over
untenable positions is that there are also people, not
just in rec.bicycles.*, but on prominent editorial pages,
who don't flip their wigs but are perfectly happy
insisting that the grass is mauve and the sky is
polka-dotted.
> I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
> what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
> needing warranty service.
Well, to be fair to Mark, everybody on rbt who has
one seems happy with it and him. I'm sure the frames
can stand up to a lot of abuse (har har). I'd think
about buying one, but I'd be afraid it would always
pull to the right. Which would be fine if I raced
crits, but I never liked crits.
Ben
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 23:52:57
From:
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 27, 7:55 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
> Speaking of graph smoothing:
>
> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
Hmmm. OTOH, it appears to have some data density.
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Date: 28 Jul 2007 00:48:06
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <1185519177.724855.252750@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 27, 7:55 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of graph smoothing:
> >
> > http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
>
> Hmmm. OTOH, it appears to have some data density.
I'll take it!
I think the WSJ line looks dumb, but I'm pretty sure Mark Thoma's line
isn't a whole lot better, maybe worse.
I'll concede that this is better evidence for the Laffer Squiggle than
the Laffer Curve.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:13:37
From:
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 27, 4:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1185440620.602009.81...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jul 26, 2:57 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
> > > > what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
> > > > needing warranty service.
>
> > > I briefly considered hiring a based-in-France data analyst, but stopped
> > > because I wondered if his work routinely exhibited the lack of data
> > > density in the "Coalition Deaths" chart.
>
> > Ah. You haven't been thinking "small multiples." Speaking of which,
> >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bringemon4.png
>
> Small multiples, yes, but what does this chart indicate other than that
> cumulative death tallies always rise?
>
> What I really want to know is when the death rate was high or low. The
> stairstep sizes help with the idea (you can see the really deadly or
> quiet reporting periods), but if you want the trend line, it's not clear.
>
> I want to know when the death rate went higher or lower than normal, and
> whether the long term trend is rising or falling.
>
> Even that wouldn't affect the data density much, but I think it would
> illuminate the most interesting thing this data carries.
>
> That, and the cumulative total, which being a single number, doesn't
> bear charting.
On the day my daughter was born I took a photo of her hand in mine.
Not much data density: poorly lit photo of a baby's hand in an
adult's. However, I take a photo of her hand in mine each year on her
birthday. Thus far, the series is still short. Each single photo
carries little information. The photos in series are more interesting;
I hope that in twenty years (if the series lasts that long) they will
be far more interesting.
I actually now use the graph as an example for "when is smooth too
smooth?" to illustrate how the eye and brain process visual data. It
didn't start that way: when I started the graph the riser height of
each step was much clearer. I never thought the number of stairs would
be so large and that's part of the story, both in terms of visual
decoding and also data density. I've had to rescale the axes several
times, and that's part of the story, too.
And, to come back to your question about when the numbers of deaths
are high or low, I had posted this back when the President was
promoting The Surge:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/deathsbymonth.png
There had been clear seasonality in the coalition death tolls, so one
would think there is also seasonality in overall violence (not just
deaths of coalition soldiers). If so, then evaluating the effect of
The Surge (either on coalition deaths or more generally on overall
violence) should also take into account seasonality.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:55:56
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <1185513217.490257.141380@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On the day my daughter was born I took a photo of her hand in mine.
> Not much data density: poorly lit photo of a baby's hand in an
> adult's. However, I take a photo of her hand in mine each year on her
> birthday. Thus far, the series is still short. Each single photo
> carries little information. The photos in series are more interesting;
> I hope that in twenty years (if the series lasts that long) they will
> be far more interesting.
>
> I actually now use the graph as an example for "when is smooth too
> smooth?" to illustrate how the eye and brain process visual data. It
> didn't start that way: when I started the graph the riser height of
> each step was much clearer. I never thought the number of stairs would
> be so large and that's part of the story, both in terms of visual
> decoding and also data density. I've had to rescale the axes several
> times, and that's part of the story, too.
>
> And, to come back to your question about when the numbers of deaths
> are high or low, I had posted this back when the President was
> promoting The Surge:
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/deathsbymonth.png
>
> There had been clear seasonality in the coalition death tolls, so one
> would think there is also seasonality in overall violence (not just
> deaths of coalition soldiers). If so, then evaluating the effect of
> The Surge (either on coalition deaths or more generally on overall
> violence) should also take into account seasonality.
Speaking of graph smoothing:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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| | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 09:57:45
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
Howard Kveck wrote:
> Speaking of graph smoothing:
> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_07/011682.php
Why does that remind me of a podium girl I checked recently ?
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 05:40:07
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <1185513217.490257.141380@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 27, 4:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > In article <1185440620.602009.81...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Jul 26, 2:57 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > > > I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
> > > > > what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
> > > > > needing warranty service.
> >
> > > > I briefly considered hiring a based-in-France data analyst, but stopped
> > > > because I wondered if his work routinely exhibited the lack of data
> > > > density in the "Coalition Deaths" chart.
> >
> > > Ah. You haven't been thinking "small multiples." Speaking of which,
> > >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bringemon4.png
> >
> > Small multiples, yes, but what does this chart indicate other than that
> > cumulative death tallies always rise?
> >
> > What I really want to know is when the death rate was high or low. The
> > stairstep sizes help with the idea (you can see the really deadly or
> > quiet reporting periods), but if you want the trend line, it's not clear.
> >
> > I want to know when the death rate went higher or lower than normal, and
> > whether the long term trend is rising or falling.
> >
> > Even that wouldn't affect the data density much, but I think it would
> > illuminate the most interesting thing this data carries.
> >
> > That, and the cumulative total, which being a single number, doesn't
> > bear charting.
An apology in advance here: my notes will be curt, not because your post
doesn't deserve more time, but because I should be doing something else.
> On the day my daughter was born I took a photo of her hand in mine.
> Not much data density: poorly lit photo of a baby's hand in an
> adult's. However, I take a photo of her hand in mine each year on her
> birthday. Thus far, the series is still short. Each single photo
> carries little information. The photos in series are more interesting;
> I hope that in twenty years (if the series lasts that long) they will
> be far more interesting.
I daresay you took that photo for the affective value, especially in
small multiples, rather than the data contained therein.
But I wouldn't put it past you to take height-and-weight numbers at the
same time :). But...for both of you?
> I actually now use the graph as an example for "when is smooth too
> smooth?" to illustrate how the eye and brain process visual data. It
> didn't start that way: when I started the graph the riser height of
> each step was much clearer. I never thought the number of stairs would
> be so large and that's part of the story, both in terms of visual
> decoding and also data density. I've had to rescale the axes several
> times, and that's part of the story, too.
I see your point about the interesting value of the stairstep rather
than connecting the dots.
> And, to come back to your question about when the numbers of deaths
> are high or low, I had posted this back when the President was
> promoting The Surge:
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/deathsbymonth.png
>
> There had been clear seasonality in the coalition death tolls, so one
> would think there is also seasonality in overall violence (not just
> deaths of coalition soldiers). If so, then evaluating the effect of
> The Surge (either on coalition deaths or more generally on overall
> violence) should also take into account seasonality.
How about small multiples of year over year death rates overlaid on a
single January-December (or April-March) graph, thus showing both the
ebb and flow of the annual death rate, and the year-over-year trends.
Use a single colour in multiple shades, darkest=latest?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 02:03:40
From:
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 26, 2:57 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> > I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
> > what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
> > needing warranty service.
>
> I briefly considered hiring a based-in-France data analyst, but stopped
> because I wondered if his work routinely exhibited the lack of data
> density in the "Coalition Deaths" chart.
Ah. You haven't been thinking "small multiples." Speaking of which,
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bringemon4.png
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| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:31:29
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <1185440620.602009.81260@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2:57 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > > I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
> > > what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
> > > needing warranty service.
> >
> > I briefly considered hiring a based-in-France data analyst, but stopped
> > because I wondered if his work routinely exhibited the lack of data
> > density in the "Coalition Deaths" chart.
>
> Ah. You haven't been thinking "small multiples." Speaking of which,
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/bringemon4.png
Small multiples, yes, but what does this chart indicate other than that
cumulative death tallies always rise?
What I really want to know is when the death rate was high or low. The
stairstep sizes help with the idea (you can see the really deadly or
quiet reporting periods), but if you want the trend line, it's not clear.
I want to know when the death rate went higher or lower than normal, and
whether the long term trend is rising or falling.
Even that wouldn't affect the data density much, but I think it would
illuminate the most interesting thing this data carries.
That, and the cumulative total, which being a single number, doesn't
bear charting.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 08:02:47
From: Marian
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 25, 10:54 am, Thurston Howell IV <Th.Howell...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jul 24, 8:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > "Ryan Cousineau" wrote
> > > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
> > Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian bikes.
> >From the Habanero website:
>
> Build quality. The frames are fabricated by an honest-to-goodness
> aerospace builder in China, not some cookie-cutter bike frame factory.
> The welders are aerospace certified and have 10-15 years of experience
> (compare that with most builders). Their attention to detail and
> experience shines through in the fantastic single pass welds, and in
> the construction and alignment of all of the frame's components.
> They're also a great group of people that I am honored to work with.
> Plus, having lived in and traveled to China over the last 10+ years,
> I've seen the difference that the free market economy is making in the
> lives of the Chinese people, and I'm proud Habanero is a (small) part
> of that.
>
> Way to go Kunich.
I'm coming up on 5 years myself. If you ever get down to Hainan
Island, give me a call.
86 1351 883 8911
Ask for Meigui, Marian, or Miriam but please don't ask for Rose cause
I hate it when people call me that.
-M
(I figure if I can get phone calls from people who got my phone number
from bike shops that got it from someone in a bike club who got it
from someone else who thinks I'm a Chinese girl that speaks really
good English and likes bikes then it is useless even pretending that
the number is anything resembling private and is therefore safe to
post.)
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 10:21:38
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 24, 10:32 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
> 7) Al Gore took money from the ChiComs.
Speaking of irony: Al Gore has a book titled "Assault on Reason"
Speaking of amusing: Borders had Al Gore's books in the science
section. (Sorta like having Castenada in the anthro section.)
r r skools failin us?
Anyway, good for Razmansun today. Levi did about the best I've ever
seen him do.
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 00:47:17
From:
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 25, 5:58 am, <b...@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote:
> Was it a Habanero Cycles frame, http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
> or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
> made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
> Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
> own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo.
I think Hickey just couldn't stand the thought that all of his Bush
chickens were coming home to roost and used JFT as a convenient
excuse.
I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
needing warranty service.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 00:57:01
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <1185349637.494607.38400@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 5:58 am, <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > Was it a Habanero Cycles frame, http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
> > or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
> > made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
> > Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
> > own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo.
>
> I think Hickey just couldn't stand the thought that all of his Bush
> chickens were coming home to roost and used JFT as a convenient
> excuse.
I think that Hickey figured out that while there may be bigger, stupider
time-sinks than Usenet, it would take an effort to find them.
Alas, I haven't learned that lesson yet.
> I briefly considered buying a Habanero but stopped because I wondered
> what Hickey would be like if anyone ever disagreed with him about
> needing warranty service.
I briefly considered hiring a based-in-France data analyst, but stopped
because I wondered if his work routinely exhibited the lack of data
density in the "Coalition Deaths" chart.
Also, I already know my limitations, and the best course of action.
(laziness and LIVEDRUNK, respectively, FWIW)
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:23:27
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> I think that Hickey figured out that while there may be bigger, stupider
> time-sinks than Usenet, it would take an effort to find them.
Don't worry, according to Hawking all your time that gets sucked into the
rbr blackhole will eventually escape (is Hawking a mathematician who dopes
or an astrophysicist on amphetamines ?)
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:10:55
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <46a8597b$0$4362$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com >,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > I think that Hickey figured out that while there may be bigger, stupider
> > time-sinks than Usenet, it would take an effort to find them.
>
> Don't worry, according to Hawking all your time that gets sucked into the
> rbr blackhole will eventually escape (is Hawking a mathematician who dopes
> or an astrophysicist on amphetamines ?)
I think he has a medical waiver either way.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:25:33
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 24, 11:58 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Jul 24, 7:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
> > > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > >> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
> > >> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that
> > >> it
> > >> was a frame likehttp://www.habcycles.com/index.html
>
> > >> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
> > >> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
> > >> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
>
> > > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
>
> > > Ah, I'm so bad.
>
> > > Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
> > > with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
>
> > Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
> > bikes.
>
> Koach Kunich,
>
> Was it a Habanero Cycles frame,http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
> or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
> made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
> Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
> own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo. Maybe you should get
> a neurological checkup.
>
> Ben
> concerned citizen
What's the difference between being the owner and proprietor?
What's wrong with the old rological checkup?
R
concerned with people not fucking up the language :)~
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:58:52
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 24, 7:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> >> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
> >> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that
> >> it
> >> was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
>
> >> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
> >> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
> >> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
>
> > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
>
> > Ah, I'm so bad.
>
> > Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
> > with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
>
> Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
> bikes.
Koach Kunich,
Was it a Habanero Cycles frame, http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo. Maybe you should get
a neurological checkup.
Ben
concerned citizen
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:58:21
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
<bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote in message
news:1185335932.789616.18830@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 24, 7:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
>> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> >> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium
>> >> frame
>> >> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said
>> >> that
>> >> it
>> >> was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
>>
>> >> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured
>> >> Eddy
>> >> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could
>> >> have
>> >> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
>>
>> > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
>>
>> > Ah, I'm so bad.
>>
>> > Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
>> > with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
>>
>> Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
>> bikes.
>
> Koach Kunich,
>
> Was it a Habanero Cycles frame, http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
> or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
> made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
> Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
> own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo. Maybe you should get
> a neurological checkup.
It was LIKE a Habanero and it was build supposedly in Russia which was where
I thought Habanero's were built as well.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 22:32:15
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <1185335932.789616.18830@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 7:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
> > > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> > >> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
> > >> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that
> > >> it
> > >> was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
> >
> > >> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
> > >> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
> > >> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
> >
> > > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
> >
> > > Ah, I'm so bad.
> >
> > > Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
> > > with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
> >
> > Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
> > bikes.
>
> Koach Kunich,
>
> Was it a Habanero Cycles frame, http://www.habcycles.com/index.html,
> or was it just "like" one? Because not only are Habaneros
> made in China, not Russia, but the owner and proprietor of
> Habanero, Mark Hickey, used to post in rbr and rbt until our
> own JFT sent him to Usenet Guantanamo. Maybe you should get
> a neurological checkup.
Top Ten Reasons Why Tom Isn't Mistaken:
10) You're stupid.
9) You're gay.
8) You're a Liberal.
7) Al Gore took money from the ChiComs.
6) You are aware that he worked at a place that invented welding.
5) He has more bikes in his garage than you do.
4) Michael Moore is fat.
3) Something about a penis...
2) Something about Clinton...
1) You're stupid, gay and Liberal.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 19:54:38
From: Thurston Howell IV
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Jul 24, 8:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" wrote
> > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
> Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian bikes.
>From the Habanero website:
Build quality. The frames are fabricated by an honest-to-goodness
aerospace builder in China, not some cookie-cutter bike frame factory.
The welders are aerospace certified and have 10-15 years of experience
(compare that with most builders). Their attention to detail and
experience shines through in the fantastic single pass welds, and in
the construction and alignment of all of the frame's components.
They're also a great group of people that I am honored to work with.
Plus, having lived in and traveled to China over the last 10+ years,
I've seen the difference that the free market economy is making in the
lives of the Chinese people, and I'm proud Habanero is a (small) part
of that.
Way to go Kunich.
-Thurston
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:07:48
From: Marty
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
"Thurston Howell IV" <Th.Howell.IV@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185332078.624357.219420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 24, 8:35 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "Ryan Cousineau" wrote
>
>> > That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
>
>> Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
>> bikes.
>
>>From the Habanero website:
>
> Build quality. The frames are fabricated by an honest-to-goodness
> aerospace builder in China, not some cookie-cutter bike frame factory.
> The welders are aerospace certified and have 10-15 years of experience
> (compare that with most builders). Their attention to detail and
> experience shines through in the fantastic single pass welds, and in
> the construction and alignment of all of the frame's components.
> They're also a great group of people that I am honored to work with.
> Plus, having lived in and traveled to China over the last 10+ years,
> I've seen the difference that the free market economy is making in the
> lives of the Chinese people, and I'm proud Habanero is a (small) part
> of that.
>
> Way to go Kunich.
>
> -Thurston
Thurston,
Any plans on offering a compact geometry frame?
--
Marty
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 01:12:02
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
In article <o_vpi.10679$tj6.947@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that it
> was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
>
> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
Ah, I'm so bad.
Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 02:35:13
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote in message
news:rcousine-8D4108.18120224072007@news.telus.net...
> In article <o_vpi.10679$tj6.947@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
>> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that
>> it
>> was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
>>
>> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
>> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
>> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
>
> That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
>
> Ah, I'm so bad.
>
> Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
> with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
bikes.
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 00:23:02
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Something More Upbeat
|
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:35:13 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
>"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@sfu.ca> wrote in message
>news:rcousine-8D4108.18120224072007@news.telus.net...
>> In article <o_vpi.10679$tj6.947@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>>> I did the Windmill Century this last weekend and spotted a titanium frame
>>> that was really well made. I asked the owner who made it and he said that
>>> it
>>> was a frame like http://www.habcycles.com/index.html
>>>
>>> The welds were cleaner than the one's on my Litespeed manufactured Eddy
>>> Merckx EX Pro. The geometry visually appeared identical. They could have
>>> been the same bike but his had cleaner welds.
>>
>> That's because the Chinese welders are supermotivated!
>>
>> Ah, I'm so bad.
>>
>> Seriously, a club-mate has a Habanero road frame, and he is very happy
>> with it. They're a great value, and it's a nice material.
>
>Dumbass of the Month Club winner Ryan doesn't know that these are Russian
>bikes.
Ya know Tom we all get to be wrong, at least once in awhile. It's a feature of
life on Earth. But being belligerently wrong is special.
Ron
|
|
