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Main
Date: 25 Jun 2007 19:38:28
From: Bill C
Subject: Stonewalling is best
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Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
offense.:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
Everyone else they are sending, and have sent is obviously as pure as
the driven snow. Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
Don't think any riders will be cooperating with the German folks.
Bill C
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 22:24:00
From:
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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On Jun 28, 3:25 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Michael Press wrote:
> > > The only place to bare your sole is where you pay a
> > > professional good money to sit still and listen.
>
> > A good cook at a fish restaurant ?
>
> I meant bear your sole.
A reflexologist?
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 22:37:33
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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In article <1183094640.294902.231900@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 28, 3:25 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Michael Press wrote:
> > > > The only place to bare your sole is where you pay a
> > > > professional good money to sit still and listen.
> >
> > > A good cook at a fish restaurant ?
> >
> > I meant bear your sole.
>
> A reflexologist?
Aren't bears more well known for their interactions with salmon?
There are more than one kind of bear, of course.
http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007/06/sunday-five-brothers-blogging-disco.html
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 01:10:49
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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On Jun 26, 9:36 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> >> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
> >> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> >> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
>
> >Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
> >very well.
>
> It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
> to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not fucking talk
> about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
> talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
> as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
> No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
> get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
>
> Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
> decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
> confidentiality are assured.
I don't really agree, I think there are a lot of things
that most of us would rather people don't talk about,
because it makes it easier for us to not have to think
about them. Both pressure to dope and child sexual abuse
fall in this category, though of radically different
seriousness. Zabel's admission didn't harm himself or
the fans; it only harmed the authorities and they are
the ones retaliating against him.
I wouldn't have had a problem with Greg's public airing
of his abuse either, except that he somehow attached them
to the Flandis doping proceedings (and like an attractive
nuisance, Flandis and his manager then foolishly managed
to step in it deeper). I don't feel like a stranger
burdened by the knowledge. I mean, I might feel burdened
if Greg came up to me and started crying on my shoulder,
but I only read about it in the newspaper. It's not a
big burden to carry. Terrible things happen and it's
worth acknowledging them. And people who feel compelled
to shut it all up inside sometimes do terrible things.
Yeah, it would be nice if they'd just go to a psychologist
or a minister instead of spilling it to the paper, but
I'd rather they go to the papers than go back to repression
and the closet.
The Oprah confessional and therapy culture is distasteful
to me, but I think it's a reaction to something that was
worse. Ditto Zabel's confession versus omerta.
Actually both the confessional culture and omerta share
one critical assumption, which is that the secret being
kept is a shameful thing that you have to bust into tears
if you reveal it. This keeps both therapy-quacks and
dope-pushers in business.
Ben
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Date: 28 Jun 2007 23:22:12
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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In article
<1182906649.336715.164180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com >
,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Jun 26, 9:36 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> > >> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
> > >> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> > >> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
> >
> > >Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
> > >very well.
> >
> > It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
> > to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not fucking talk
> > about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
> > talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
> > as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
> > No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
> > get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
> >
> > Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
> > decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
> > confidentiality are assured.
>
> I don't really agree, I think there are a lot of things
> that most of us would rather people don't talk about,
> because it makes it easier for us to not have to think
> about them. Both pressure to dope and child sexual abuse
> fall in this category, though of radically different
> seriousness. Zabel's admission didn't harm himself or
> the fans; it only harmed the authorities and they are
> the ones retaliating against him.
>
> I wouldn't have had a problem with Greg's public airing
> of his abuse either, except that he somehow attached them
> to the Flandis doping proceedings (and like an attractive
> nuisance, Flandis and his manager then foolishly managed
> to step in it deeper). I don't feel like a stranger
> burdened by the knowledge. I mean, I might feel burdened
> if Greg came up to me and started crying on my shoulder,
> but I only read about it in the newspaper. It's not a
> big burden to carry. Terrible things happen and it's
> worth acknowledging them. And people who feel compelled
> to shut it all up inside sometimes do terrible things.
When someone does not want to think about something,
they will find a way not to think about it, so there is
no benefit of public confession here. Another problem
with public confession is that it invariably drags into
public people who are rightfully entitled to remain
undiscovered.
> Yeah, it would be nice if they'd just go to a psychologist
> or a minister instead of spilling it to the paper, but
> I'd rather they go to the papers than go back to repression
> and the closet.
Logical fallacy of the false dilemma.
> The Oprah confessional and therapy culture is distasteful
> to me, but I think it's a reaction to something that was
> worse. Ditto Zabel's confession versus omerta.
>
> Actually both the confessional culture and omerta share
> one critical assumption, which is that the secret being
> kept is a shameful thing that you have to bust into tears
> if you reveal it. This keeps both therapy-quacks and
> dope-pushers in business.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 17:10:43
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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In article
<1182825508.514270.278720@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >,
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote:
> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> offense.:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
>
> Everyone else they are sending, and have sent is obviously as pure as
> the driven snow. Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
When you get down to it, nobody likes a blabber-mouth.
Everybody respects someone who can keep his mouth shut.
The only place to bare your sole is where you pay a
professional good money to sit still and listen.
> Don't think any riders will be cooperating with the German folks.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 09:52:02
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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Michael Press wrote:
> The only place to bare your sole is where you pay a
> professional good money to sit still and listen.
A good cook at a fish restaurant ?
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 18:25:18
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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In article
<468216fe$0$14772$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com >,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
> > The only place to bare your sole is where you pay a
> > professional good money to sit still and listen.
>
> A good cook at a fish restaurant ?
I meant bear your sole.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:14:42
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:52:02 +0200, Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com >
wrote:
>Michael Press wrote:
>> The only place to bare your sole is where you pay a
>> professional good money to sit still and listen.
>
>A good cook at a fish restaurant ?
Better than telling me about it, thank you very much.
Good points were made about the validity of opening up some discussion on these
topics that I'd consider private. Obviously the sport, as some amorphous whole
isn't ready fro that either.
Ron
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Date: 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37
From:
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
|
On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
very well.
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 12:36:37
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
>> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
>> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
>> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
>
>Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
>very well.
It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not fucking talk
about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
confidentiality are assured.
Ron
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 17:14:09
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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In article
<7nf2831evck6o2qdg334e4j8aqnohu1cok@4ax.com >,
RonSonic <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
> >> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
> >> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
> >> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
> >
> >Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
> >very well.
>
> It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
> to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not fucking talk
> about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
> talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
> as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
> No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
> get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
>
> Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
> decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
> confidentiality are assured.
No, Ron, I did not read this before posting a message in this thread.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 26 Jun 2007 21:05:24
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Stonewalling is best
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:14:09 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
>In article
><7nf2831evck6o2qdg334e4j8aqnohu1cok@4ax.com>,
> RonSonic <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:07:37 -0700, rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >On Jun 26, 4:38 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> Look at what's happening to Zabel for admitting to a long past
>> >> offense.:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jun07/jun26news
>> >> Makes it real clear that the only policy is to keep
>> >> your mouth shut and deny everything no matter what.
>> >
>> >Those voluntary admissions? That policy doesn't seem to be working out
>> >very well.
>>
>> It's working perfectly, in a few more weeks even dumbass bike racers are going
>> to figure out that in this world there are things that one does not fucking talk
>> about. One of the more surreal moments of the Flandis hearing was Greg Lemond
>> talking about just how horrible it is to keep things secret and then presenting
>> as an example exactly the sort of thing that one does not burden strangers with.
>> No good comes of talking about dope, Oprah lied and Greg's an idiot, so STFU and
>> get back on the bike. It's like Fight Club.
>>
>> Confession is good for the soul - so if you need that, do it the way the experts
>> decided upon centuries ago and keep it private with someone whose privelege and
>> confidentiality are assured.
>
>No, Ron, I did not read this before posting a message in this thread.
Haha. And a good post it is, too.
Ron
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