| |
Main
Date: 24 Jul 2007 18:09:45
From: Sandy
Subject: Tell us it ain't so !
|
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
|
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 16:32:36
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 25, 1:25 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 8:18 am, Stu Fleming <stew...@wic.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > After the TT, I went to bed and mentioned to my wife "...Astana - the
> > whole team is juiced..." - I was waiting for the Chung chart before
> > commenting online.
>
> Weiner Chart:
Never mind. It just isn't the same without the
alliteration.
> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf07-13-splits-2.png
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 01:25:23
From:
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 25, 8:18 am, Stu Fleming <stew...@wic.co.nz > wrote:
> After the TT, I went to bed and mentioned to my wife "...Astana - the
> whole team is juiced..." - I was waiting for the Chung chart before
> commenting online.
Weiner Chart:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tdf07-13-splits-2.png
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 17:56:31
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 2:48 pm, Brian Lafferty <blaffe...@nowhere.com > wrote:
> Eric Boyer (Manager Cofidis) - =ABJe suis totalement =E9coeur=E9. J'esp=
=E8re que
> Vinokourov n'aura pas la l=E2chet=E9 de nier, qu'il nous expliquera, qu'il
> nous dira qui l'a aid=E9, qui a particip=E9 =E0 cette saloperie, parce qu=
'il a
> pas pu faire =E7a tout seul. Vinokourov, il nous disait qu'il ne
> travaillait avec le Dr Ferrari que pour des plans d'entra=EEnement. Il
> nous disait qu'il =E9tait courageux, que les Fran=E7ais l'aimaient bien,
> qu'il =E9tait plus fort que la douleur, il nous disaient que nous Fran=E7=
ais
> on ne savait pas faire, qu'on =E9tait des fain=E9ants, on se rend compte =
que
> c'est un gros salopard, qui =E0 travers ces pratiques jette encore une
> fois le discr=E9dit sur le cyclisme. C'est un coup dur de plus, j'esp=E8re
> qu'encore une fois on s'en rel=E8vera. Je ne regrette pas ce que je dis
> depuis plusieurs jours, plusieurs mois. Je demande que toute l'=E9quipe
> Astana quitte le cyclisme le plus t=F4t possible.=BB
>
>
>
> Sandy wrote:
> >http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html- Hide =
quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Honest if you keep repeating crap, it might make people believe it,
but it still doesn't change what it is. Not a rational argument
either.
Bill C
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 14:18:16
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 2:42 pm, Brian Lafferty <blaffe...@nowhere.com > wrote:
> Sandy wrote:
> >http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>
> So who's blood did he use? Was it from Borat or the official from
> Glorious Country who promised Vino a 10 year contract?
Good question! Wanna bet the whole team clears out to Kazahkstan for a
while? Wonder if the French will have as much trouble extrading them
as the Brits are with the Russians?
I hope they hang the whole fucking team if this holds up, and I think
it will; both for sporting fraud, but more for incredible stupidity
and arrogance.
How the hell anyone could be THAT stupid is beyond me.
Bill C
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 13:58:40
From:
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 1:12 pm, sharpshooter...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 24, 1:05 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 24, 11:57 am, Mark
>
> > <remove.mandmlj.t...@remove.comcast.this.net> wrote:
>
> > > Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> > > ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> > > (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
> > After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
> > positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
>
> > The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
> > Ch=E2tenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
> > of Landis).
> > --D-y
>
> And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
> and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
> but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
> worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
> Bill C
Dunno. I quite enjoyed this Millar quote:
""We can't just destroy the whole professional peloton, and look
twenty years from now, and get some babies from birth and watch em."-
Shane
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 12:38:16
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 7:08 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 10:00 am, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Mark wrote:
>
> > > I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
> > > the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
> > > resistance.
>
> > > Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> > > ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> > > (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
> > Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.
>
> > It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.
>
> Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
> stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
Maybe they all have cavities in their brains filled with fluid.
I still cannot fathom how somebody could be so stupid.
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:59:15
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Sandy wrote:
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>
>
This is absurd.
I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
Consider the following:
1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or
to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage 15,
including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although this is
after the alleged offense, see point 2.
4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well known
that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over control of
financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is equally well known
that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of cycling. What better
way for both agencies to achieve their goals than to ensure that perhaps
the most popular rider at the Tour fails a dope test during the most
high profile race in cycling. The ASO is damaged greatly, and WADA gets
another high publicity shot at cycling.
In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly believe
that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated for fraud.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 23:42:06
From: benjo maso
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
"Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:5gn0g4F3g9lpdU1@mid.individual.net...
> Sandy wrote:
>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
> This is absurd.
>
> I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
> conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far. Consider
> the following:
>
> 1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at this
> years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily detectable. Not
> after Tyler, not after Floyd.
> 2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or to
> try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
> heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
> 3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage 15,
> including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although this is
> after the alleged offense, see point 2.
> 4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
> saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well known
> that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over control of
> financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is equally well known
> that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of cycling. What better way
> for both agencies to achieve their goals than to ensure that perhaps the
> most popular rider at the Tour fails a dope test during the most high
> profile race in cycling. The ASO is damaged greatly, and WADA gets another
> high publicity shot at cycling.
>
> In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly believe
> that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated for fraud.
Exactly. After all, Vino is a client of dr. Michele Ferrari's. Although
there are a lot of people doubting Ferrari's ethical standards, nobody ever
denied the man is brilliant. During the Tour he stays at home, but is more
or less permanently in touch with his `patients'. Armstrong was even
communicating with him during the race. If Vino wanted to win the TT at any
price, I'm sure dr. Ferrari would have given him excellent advice, and
certainly not somehting so easily dtectable as a transfusion of someone
else's blood.
Benjo
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:45:29
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Dans le message de news:5gn0g4F3g9lpdU1@mid.individual.net,
Kyle Legate <legatek@hotmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Sandy wrote:
>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>
>>
> This is absurd.
>
> I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
> conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
> Consider the following:
>
> 1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
> this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
> detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
> 2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or
> to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
> heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
> 3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage
> 15, including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although
> this is after the alleged offense, see point 2.
> 4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
> saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well
> known that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over
> control of financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is
> equally well known that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of
> cycling. What better way for both agencies to achieve their goals
> than to ensure that perhaps the most popular rider at the Tour fails
> a dope test during the most high profile race in cycling. The ASO is
> damaged greatly, and WADA gets another high publicity shot at cycling.
>
> In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly
> believe that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated
> for fraud.
You shouldn't be surprised that I agree completely with your comments.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:23:48
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:45:29 +0200, "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr > wrote:
>> In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly
>> believe that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated
>> for fraud.
>
>You shouldn't be surprised that I agree completely with your comments.
What are you two smoking? Clearly not performance enhancing, but I
want some.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 19:10:44
From: Brian Lafferty
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Kyle Legate wrote:
> Sandy wrote:
>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>
> This is absurd.
>
> I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
> conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
> Consider the following:
>
> 1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
> this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
> detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
> 2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood, or
> to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time of
> heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
> 3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage 15,
> including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although this is
> after the alleged offense, see point 2.
> 4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm not
> saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is well known
> that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over control of
> financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is equally well known
> that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of cycling. What better
> way for both agencies to achieve their goals than to ensure that perhaps
> the most popular rider at the Tour fails a dope test during the most
> high profile race in cycling. The ASO is damaged greatly, and WADA gets
> another high publicity shot at cycling.
>
> In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly believe
> that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated for fraud.
You don't need bags of blood if a compatible person is present. That
would explain homologus as opposed to autologus doping. Transfusion
equipment is not that hard to bring in at night; it might even be the
same as that used for post-race re hydration (medical reading please
comment)
He is stupid to have done it. So were Tyler and Santi.
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 23:04:26
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
in message <U8spi.2804$b04.456@trndny06 >, Brian Lafferty
('blafferty@nowhere.com') wrote:
> You don't need bags of blood if a compatible person is present. That
> would explain homologus as opposed to autologus doping. Transfusion
> equipment is not that hard to bring in at night; it might even be the
> same as that used for post-race re hydration (medical reading please
> comment)
You can actually do homologous transfusion with two needles and a bit of
tube. The donor rests on a bed at a higher level than the recipient (e.g.
on bunks) and blood gradually flows under gravity from one to the other.
This technique was widely used before modern systems of blood storage were
available (my father had it done to him, in 1918). Obviously you have to
take great care not to introduce air bubbles.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
'graveyards are full of indispensable people'
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 23:15:04
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <U8spi.2804$b04.456@trndny06>, Brian Lafferty
> ('blafferty@nowhere.com') wrote:
>
>> You don't need bags of blood if a compatible person is present. That
>> would explain homologus as opposed to autologus doping. Transfusion
>> equipment is not that hard to bring in at night; it might even be the
>> same as that used for post-race re hydration (medical reading please
>> comment)
>
> You can actually do homologous transfusion with two needles and a bit of
> tube. The donor rests on a bed at a higher level than the recipient (e.g.
> on bunks) and blood gradually flows under gravity from one to the other.
> This technique was widely used before modern systems of blood storage were
> available (my father had it done to him, in 1918). Obviously you have to
> take great care not to introduce air bubbles.
>
For autologous transfusions, you simply elevate one arm relative to the other, and run a tube between them. Same advantage.
Dan
|
| | | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 09:13:08
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Dan Connelly wrote:
> For autologous transfusions, you simply elevate one arm
> relative to the other, and run a tube between them.
Funny.
--
E. Dronkert
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:48:14
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Dans le message de news:U8spi.2804$b04.456@trndny06,
Brian Lafferty <blafferty@nowhere.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Kyle Legate wrote:
>> Sandy wrote:
>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>>
>> This is absurd.
>>
>> I am not a fanboi of any particular rider, and I think that my best
>> conspiracy theory years are behind me, but this is going too far.
>> Consider the following:
>>
>> 1. Nobody, not even a professional rider, is stupid enough to dope at
>> this years Tour using a method which had proven to be so easily
>> detectable. Not after Tyler, not after Floyd.
>> 2. No team is stupid enough to risk carrying around a bag of blood,
>> or to try to transport one into the Tour's inner circle in this time
>> of heightened vigilance and unannounced searches.
>> 3. The Astana team van _was_ searched by customs agents during stage
>> 15, including the fridge, and nothing untoward was found. Although
>> this is after the alleged offense, see point 2.
>> 4. The UCI controls the dope tests and WADA controls the labs. I'm
>> not saying that there is any collusion between the two, but it is
>> well known that the UCI and ASO are engaged in a power struggle over
>> control of financially lucrative aspects of the sport, and it is
>> equally well known that WADA has been trying to make a pariah out of
>> cycling. What better way for both agencies to achieve their goals
>> than to ensure that perhaps the most popular rider at the Tour fails
>> a dope test during the most high profile race in cycling. The ASO is
>> damaged greatly, and WADA gets another high publicity shot at
>> cycling. In short, this latest scandal stinks to high heaven and I firmly
>> believe that in this case the UCI, not Vino, should be investigated
>> for fraud.
>
> You don't need bags of blood if a compatible person is present. That
> would explain homologus as opposed to autologus doping. Transfusion
> equipment is not that hard to bring in at night; it might even be the
> same as that used for post-race re hydration (medical reading please
> comment)
>
> He is stupid to have done it. So were Tyler and Santi.
Nothing like rushing to judgment to keep things alive. ;-)
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 18:48:09
From: Brian Lafferty
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Eric Boyer (Manager Cofidis) - «Je suis totalement écoeuré. J'espère que
Vinokourov n'aura pas la lâcheté de nier, qu'il nous expliquera, qu'il
nous dira qui l'a aidé, qui a participé à cette saloperie, parce qu'il a
pas pu faire ça tout seul. Vinokourov, il nous disait qu'il ne
travaillait avec le Dr Ferrari que pour des plans d'entraînement. Il
nous disait qu'il était courageux, que les Français l'aimaient bien,
qu'il était plus fort que la douleur, il nous disaient que nous Français
on ne savait pas faire, qu'on était des fainéants, on se rend compte que
c'est un gros salopard, qui à travers ces pratiques jette encore une
fois le discrédit sur le cyclisme. C'est un coup dur de plus, j'espère
qu'encore une fois on s'en relèvera. Je ne regrette pas ce que je dis
depuis plusieurs jours, plusieurs mois. Je demande que toute l'équipe
Astana quitte le cyclisme le plus tôt possible.»
Sandy wrote:
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:59:54
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Dans le message de news:JPrpi.7324$XL4.2318@trndny04,
Brian Lafferty <blafferty@nowhere.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> Eric Boyer (Manager Cofidis) - «Je suis totalement écoeuré. J'espère
> que Vinokourov n'aura pas la lâcheté de nier, qu'il nous expliquera,
> qu'il nous dira qui l'a aidé, qui a participé à cette saloperie,
> parce qu'il a pas pu faire ça tout seul. Vinokourov, il nous disait
> qu'il ne travaillait avec le Dr Ferrari que pour des plans
> d'entraînement. Il nous disait qu'il était courageux, que les
> Français l'aimaient bien, qu'il était plus fort que la douleur, il
> nous disaient que nous Français on ne savait pas faire, qu'on était
> des fainéants, on se rend compte que c'est un gros salopard, qui à
> travers ces pratiques jette encore une fois le discrédit sur le
> cyclisme. C'est un coup dur de plus, j'espère qu'encore une fois on
> s'en relèvera. Je ne regrette pas ce que je dis depuis plusieurs
> jours, plusieurs mois. Je demande que toute l'équipe Astana quitte le
> cyclisme le plus tôt possible.»
What a self-righteous prig. His big whine is that Vino called the French
do-nothings. Well, that's the major job description of salaried workers
here. In fact, there _were_ complaints by rider of doing more than 35 hours
work a week (not just training, but meetings, other stuff).
As with Landis, I'm not engaged to issue some kind of decision. That will
come, in time. It smells just as rotten whether the tests be clean or
dirty, for all riders. That, and the test results (you were paying
attention, right?).
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 18:42:04
From: Brian Lafferty
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Sandy wrote:
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>
>
So who's blood did he use? Was it from Borat or the official from
Glorious Country who promised Vino a 10 year contract?
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 22:10:40
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Brian Lafferty wrote:
The surge has arrived.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 18:51:26
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Brian Lafferty wrote:
> Sandy wrote:
>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>
> So who's blood did he use?
The inside word is Didi Senft.
Dan
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 22:04:16
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m > wrote in message
news:OSrpi.40679$Um6.21286@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> Brian Lafferty wrote:
>> Sandy wrote:
>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>>
>> So who's blood did he use?
>
> The inside word is Didi Senft.
>
Vino flunked the smell test?
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 10:13:43
From: pacqueman
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 12:09 pm, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
Anyone who actually believed Vino was clean is completely delusional.
Doping has long been a fact in amateur and professional cycling (and
most other sports). I witnessed/experienced it first hand back in
1982 when racing as a lowly 2nd year junior amateur in France. My
team as well as all of the others doped. Yes, systematic use of
prohibited products that were prescribed after going for medical
exams. And the coach always had "les pillules" (amphetamines) for
riders suffering from "mal aux jambes", "crise de foie", "mal aux
reins" or whatever else ails riders prior to the start of a race.
I chose to leave competitive cycing and go to college. Unfortunately,
none of my teammates had this option. For most, the choices were
either to try to make a name in cycling by taking whatever was
required or to go back to working on the family farm, working in a
factory, apprentising as a carpenter or tile setter, etc. I've always
had sympathy for the few clean riders who suffer in the pack.
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 10:12:27
From:
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 1:05 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 11:57 am, Mark
>
> <remove.mandmlj.t...@remove.comcast.this.net> wrote:
>
> > Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> > ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> > (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
> After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
> positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
>
> The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
> Ch=E2tenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
> of Landis).
> --D-y
And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
Bill C
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 17:42:09
From: Doug Smith
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
That was my initial reaction, but I read it again and think that it is a
bit of context. The way I read it now is that Millar is saying that
everyone thought Vino was class-act, etc... Now that he's tested positive,
it goes to show how stinky the whole thing is. ie you can't even trust the
ones you want to trust. ie the poster boy has fallen, so there goes PR
machine.
Millar got it right, me thinks.
sharpshooter555@gmail.com wrote in news:1185297147.856389.117380
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
> And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
> and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
> but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
> worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
> Bill C
>
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:36:43
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Doug Smith <sluggo@telus.net > writes:
> Millar got it right, me thinks.
>
> sharpshooter555@gmail.com wrote in news:1185297147.856389.117380
> @k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>> And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
>> and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
>> but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
>> worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
>> Bill C
Millar can STFU any time he likes
The sanctimonious Bastard is now Spewing Bullshit about Simpson, a
rider he knows Doodley-Wap about, and Dissing him as This-That-The_Other
Davey over the years has always tried to avoid Name-Dropping, but he
feels that he must correct a few misapprehensions about Tom's demise
Firstly the "Put me back on my Bike" bit are absolute Journalistic
Bullshit
. According to the team mechanic, whose name I disremember without
looking it up at the moment (but it was not Harry Hall), his last
words were "Allez, Allez", spoken in French
There has been so much self serving printers ink spilled on this topic
by Journalistic Hacks that one hardly knows what to believe.
But I grew up with Simpson and rode against him regularly in the early
days both on the road in the then illegal BLRC events and on the Old
Fallowfield Track.
Sure he drank a Brandy or two to get the heart rate up - we all did,
and we'd also smoke a cigarette which was supposed to acclimatize us
to the petrol fumes we'd encounter from the vehicles on the course.
And sure he popped a couple of Bennies, but then again, eveybody did
way back when.
A few years after Tom's death I was riding some local/regional event
when in company of Rahael Geminiani, we were misdirected off course.
By the time we realized we were off course we were 15 klicks down the
wrong road. Anyway, when we got back to the roundabout where we had
gone off course, the sag wagon was long gone so we went into the local
bar for a couple of beers and having declined numerous offers to drive
us to the finish, we left our numbers on and decided to ride the 30
klicks. "Screw 'em", said Gem, "Were not quitting. Let them time us
out, 'cause it looks better in the papers!!"
We rode at Tourist pace, and as bikies did in those days we were
bullshitting about bikes, chicks and the fancy cars we'd buy if ever
we had enough money.
Anyway, the topic finally turned to Tommy who Gem knew even better
than I at that time because they'd ridden together on the
Rapha-Geminiani squad. Gem always figured Tom just rode his Heart
Out. It was a scorching hot day and Tom needed a result because he had
no sponsor for the next season and besides the 1967 Paris-Nice, he had
had no results for the last two years.
So there you have it. The heat exhaustion and his refusal to quit when
his body was screaming at him to do so were the cause of Tom's Demise.
Thanks for Reading this Rant
Here's a Classic Piccy for your trouble
http://azurservers.com/rbr/morte_de_simpson.jpg
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 15:29:56
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
In article <87fy3d4pj8.fsf@azurservers.com >,
Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com >
wrote:
> Doug Smith <sluggo@telus.net> writes:
>
>
> > Millar got it right, me thinks.
> >
> > sharpshooter555@gmail.com wrote in news:1185297147.856389.117380
> > @k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
> >
> >
> >> And does anyone else wish that Millar would STFU. Vino's a great guy
> >> and a class act even after he gets busted because he's MIllar's buddy,
> >> but Rasmussen is a scumbag without a positive test. There's nothing
> >> worse than an ex-alky or smoker on their pedestal.
> >> Bill C
>
> Millar can STFU any time he likes
>
> The sanctimonious Bastard is now Spewing Bullshit about Simpson, a
> rider he knows Doodley-Wap about, and Dissing him as This-That-The_Other
>
> Davey over the years has always tried to avoid Name-Dropping, but he
> feels that he must correct a few misapprehensions about Tom's demise
>
> Firstly the "Put me back on my Bike" bit are absolute Journalistic
> Bullshit
>
> . According to the team mechanic, whose name I disremember without
> looking it up at the moment (but it was not Harry Hall), his last
> words were "Allez, Allez", spoken in French
>
> There has been so much self serving printers ink spilled on this topic
> by Journalistic Hacks that one hardly knows what to believe.
>
> But I grew up with Simpson and rode against him regularly in the early
> days both on the road in the then illegal BLRC events and on the Old
> Fallowfield Track.
>
> Sure he drank a Brandy or two to get the heart rate up - we all did,
> and we'd also smoke a cigarette which was supposed to acclimatize us
> to the petrol fumes we'd encounter from the vehicles on the course.
>
> And sure he popped a couple of Bennies, but then again, eveybody did
> way back when.
>
> A few years after Tom's death I was riding some local/regional event
> when in company of Rahael Geminiani, we were misdirected off course.
>
> By the time we realized we were off course we were 15 klicks down the
> wrong road. Anyway, when we got back to the roundabout where we had
> gone off course, the sag wagon was long gone so we went into the local
> bar for a couple of beers and having declined numerous offers to drive
> us to the finish, we left our numbers on and decided to ride the 30
> klicks. "Screw 'em", said Gem, "Were not quitting. Let them time us
> out, 'cause it looks better in the papers!!"
>
> We rode at Tourist pace, and as bikies did in those days we were
> bullshitting about bikes, chicks and the fancy cars we'd buy if ever
> we had enough money.
>
> Anyway, the topic finally turned to Tommy who Gem knew even better
> than I at that time because they'd ridden together on the
> Rapha-Geminiani squad. Gem always figured Tom just rode his Heart
> Out. It was a scorching hot day and Tom needed a result because he had
> no sponsor for the next season and besides the 1967 Paris-Nice, he had
> had no results for the last two years.
>
> So there you have it. The heat exhaustion and his refusal to quit when
> his body was screaming at him to do so were the cause of Tom's Demise.
>
> Thanks for Reading this Rant
You are welcome, and thanks for writing it.
> Here's a Classic Piccy for your trouble
>
> http://azurservers.com/rbr/morte_de_simpson.jpg
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:04:48
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Davey Crocket wrote:
>> The sanctimonious Bastard is now Spewing Bullshit about Simpson, a
>> rider he knows Doodley-Wap about, and Dissing him as This-That-The_Other
>>
>> Davey over the years has always tried to avoid Name-Dropping, but he
>> feels that he must correct a few misapprehensions about Tom's demise
.....
>> Thanks for Reading this Rant
Michael Press wrote:
> You are welcome, and thanks for writing it.
Seconded.
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 10:08:20
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 10:00 am, William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>
> > I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
> > the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
> > resistance.
>
> > Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> > ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> > (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
> Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.
>
> It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.
Dumbass -
Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.
Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 17:51:47
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Dumbass -
>
>
> Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.
>
> Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
> stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.
I doubt they're the stupidest creatures, but in the post-stage confusion,
with multiple languages being spoken, everything being done semi-
secretively and late at night when people are tired, it's likely that
mistakes get made. I would guess that the biggest symbol on the bags is
the blood type, so at least they don't kill anybody.
They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
Vinokourov's blood. Perhaps it was Kloden. If so, they can't risk him
winning a stage, or getting on the podium because then he would get tested
and popped too. One guy on a team doping can be seen as a rogue, two
suggests it is a team-wide practice. Hell, they might have mixed up
multiple bags of O- so essentially the entire team is positive for
homologous doping.
I know I should think it's all evil, but I want to see these guys go up
mountains like they are on Katanas. Blood doping seems relatively benign.
Let 'em ride, I wanna see bike racing dammit.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 01:24:19
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
In article <Xns99776E75D61C2FkldeltaC@130.133.1.4 >,
William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> > Dumbass -
> >
> >
> > Goddamm. I hope that it was the blood bag mixup.
> >
> > Because if it wasn't, it means that professional bike racers are the
> > stupidest creatures on the face of the planet.
>
> I doubt they're the stupidest creatures, but in the post-stage confusion,
> with multiple languages being spoken, everything being done semi-
> secretively and late at night when people are tired, it's likely that
> mistakes get made. I would guess that the biggest symbol on the bags is
> the blood type, so at least they don't kill anybody.
> They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
> Vinokourov's blood. Perhaps it was Kloden. If so, they can't risk him
> winning a stage, or getting on the podium because then he would get tested
> and popped too. One guy on a team doping can be seen as a rogue, two
> suggests it is a team-wide practice. Hell, they might have mixed up
> multiple bags of O- so essentially the entire team is positive for
> homologous doping.
>
> I know I should think it's all evil, but I want to see these guys go up
> mountains like they are on Katanas. Blood doping seems relatively benign.
> Let 'em ride, I wanna see bike racing dammit.
And bike racing you shall get. It's not the speed, it's the competition.
Look, when I watch the local Cat 1/2s doing the Tuesday Nighter, those
dudes are flying up the hill. It's psychotic. The competition level is
high, and the racing is tactical and active.
From my Cat 4 perspective, 1/2s might as well be another species.
They're way slower than the ProTour riders.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:50:24
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com > wrote:
> They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
> Vinokourov's blood.
They didn't pull the team on their own initiative, ASO askede them to
do so. ASO has an interrest in covering it up and avoid destroying the
carier of all the Astana riders and personell. - It's called damage
control.
Anyway, regardless of what happens now Astana is history, they won't
race next year. The cash flow from Kazackstan will stop without an
iconic kazack rider as Vinokurov.
Astana will turn over their licence to UCI, and if they don't do it by
themselves the UCI will make them.
Lets face it, ASO don't really care about doping. What they do care
about is the knowlagde of doping and the bad press it generates
because it affects their revenue. It's a professional sport aka.
buisness.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:44:14
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Dans le message de news:g8uhn4-2r4.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen <spam@reippuert.dk > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> They had to withdraw the entire team because they're not sure who got
>> Vinokourov's blood.
>
> They didn't pull the team on their own initiative, ASO askede them to
> do so. ASO has an interrest in covering it up and avoid destroying the
> carier of all the Astana riders and personell. - It's called damage
> control.
>
> Anyway, regardless of what happens now Astana is history, they won't
> race next year. The cash flow from Kazackstan will stop without an
> iconic kazack rider as Vinokurov.
I won't take up your spelling, but there is no Kazakh currently engaged in
the Tour de France. While Vino is ethnically Russian (from Pavlodar), I am
sure he doesn't mind being identified wrongly, given the sources of the
funding. Less than the majority of citizens of this country are Kazakh by
ethnic standard.
And while the result may occur, as you suggest, that's not how things are
done there. The government is fond of reminding one that Kazakhstan is
EURAsia.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 10:05:43
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Jul 24, 11:57 am, Mark
<remove.mandmlj.t...@remove.comcast.this.net > wrote:
>
> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
Ch=E2tenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
of Landis).
--D-y
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 17:58:47
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
>
> After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
> positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
If there were a conspiracy, it would be the other way, where positive tests
would be covered up. What possible benefit to anyone is there in bouncing
out a guy who did something inspiring and heroic who is 23rd in the
standings? The French lab doesn't need more publicity. The tour doesn't
get brownie points. Nobody wins in this. Astana messed up and some low-
level assistant misread the labels on some bags.
He will test positive positive positive because he is guilty guilty guilty.
It sucks but that is professional bicycle racing. These guys can't do what
we expect them to do without doping.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 21:24:31
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
in message <Xns99776FA5950C8FkldeltaC@130.133.1.4 >, William Asher
('gcnp58@yahoo.com') wrote:
> dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
>
>>
>> After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
>> positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
>
> If there were a conspiracy, it would be the other way, where positive
> tests
> would be covered up. What possible benefit to anyone is there in
> bouncing out a guy who did something inspiring and heroic who is 23rd in
> the
> standings? The French lab doesn't need more publicity. The tour doesn't
> get brownie points. Nobody wins in this. Astana messed up and some low-
> level assistant misread the labels on some bags.
>
> He will test positive positive positive because he is guilty guilty
> guilty.
> It sucks but that is professional bicycle racing. These guys can't do
> what we expect them to do without doping.
I'm sorry. What is this guilty, guilty, guilty? He's been riding injured
for two fucking weeks. What he's done is cheating - I agree it's
cheating - but it seems to me entirely understandable of someone who had
his chance of riding last year wrecked by the Puerto thing (in which he
was not accused), had that awful crash in stage 5, and has age against
him. He wasn't going to get many more bites at this cherry.
Yes, (if true - which I assume it is) it's cheating. Yes, some sanction is
needed. But he ought to be tried by a jury of his peers before being
found 'guilty, guilty, guilty' - and his peers are the other riders in the
pro peloton. They're the people who have (arguably) been cheated out of
two stage wins.
He's a flawed hero. We always knew he was. But he's still a hero, and he's
still a man who has given all of us here a tremendous amount of vicarious
enjoyment over the past few years. He's a cheat (probably). But he's a
great rider (certainly).
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by
; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or
; www-html. -- George Lund
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 22:04:56
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Simon Brooke wrote:
<snip >
>
> I'm sorry. What is this guilty, guilty, guilty? He's been riding
> injured for two fucking weeks. What he's done is cheating - I agree
> it's cheating - but it seems to me entirely understandable of someone
> who had his chance of riding last year wrecked by the Puerto thing (in
> which he was not accused), had that awful crash in stage 5, and has
> age against him. He wasn't going to get many more bites at this
> cherry.
>
> Yes, (if true - which I assume it is) it's cheating. Yes, some
> sanction is needed. But he ought to be tried by a jury of his peers
> before being found 'guilty, guilty, guilty' - and his peers are the
> other riders in the pro peloton. They're the people who have
> (arguably) been cheated out of two stage wins.
>
> He's a flawed hero. We always knew he was. But he's still a hero, and
> he's still a man who has given all of us here a tremendous amount of
> vicarious enjoyment over the past few years. He's a cheat (probably).
> But he's a great rider (certainly).
>
Calm down. My interpretation of the post I was responding to was that the
poster was implying that Vinokourov was found positive because of some
great conspiracy. My point was not that he should be executed forthwith,
it was that he was positive because he blood doped. He is guilty of blood
doping. I apologize of the wording bothers you, but it is nonetheless
true.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 19:14:45
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Dans le message de
news:1185296743.072082.43260@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
dustoyevsky@mac.com <dustoyevsky@mac.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jul 24, 11:57 am, Mark
> <remove.mandmlj.t...@remove.comcast.this.net> wrote:
>>
>> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was
>> there ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
>> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
> After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
> positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
>
> The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
> Châtenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
> of Landis).
> --D-y
If the arb award has not been published, the aribtrators (fully cognizant of
"news") may be interested in regrouping, rethinking and revising. On the
other hand, I am pretty sure that LNDD would have be super extra careful
before coming up with an analysis. Status can really only be earned, not
conferred.
Bummer, still, no matter how this turns out. And the team leaving is a
statement, not an evasion. Licensed riders remain subject to testing, and
we can expect that.
--
Sandy
--
Il n'est aucune sorte de sensation qui soit plus vive
que celle de la douleur ; ses impressions sont sûres,
elles ne trompent point comme celles du plaisir.
- de Sade.
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:15:13
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:14:45 +0200, "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr > wrote:
>Dans le message de
>news:1185296743.072082.43260@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
>dustoyevsky@mac.com <dustoyevsky@mac.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>> On Jul 24, 11:57 am, Mark
>> <remove.mandmlj.t...@remove.comcast.this.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was
>>> there ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
>>> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>>
>> After Floyd, can you doubt that Vino will be found positive, positive,
>> positive (repeat as necessary) positive?
>>
>> The big problem here is the increase in status and power for the
>> Châtenay-Malabry laboratory (they of the tainted testosterone test A
>> of Landis).
>> --D-y
>
>If the arb award has not been published, the aribtrators (fully cognizant of
>"news") may be interested in regrouping, rethinking and revising. On the
>other hand, I am pretty sure that LNDD would have be super extra careful
>before coming up with an analysis. Status can really only be earned, not
>conferred.
I (hopefully realistically) expect that things have tightened up around the LNDD
shop. Only the stupidest slug to ever knot his own necktie would want to
continue business as usual after the Landis hearing. Of course I'm not sure what
sort of slug thinks that "with IRMS testing no error is possible."
>Bummer, still, no matter how this turns out. And the team leaving is a
>statement, not an evasion. Licensed riders remain subject to testing, and
>we can expect that.
Worst news since last TdF.
Ron
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 09:13:08
From: Frank Drackman
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
"Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr > wrote in message
news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>
Still very little information.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 18:18:31
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Frank Drackman wrote:
> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
> news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>
>
> Still very little information.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
>
>
After the TT, I went to bed and mentioned to my wife "...Astana - the
whole team is juiced..." - I was waiting for the Chung chart before
commenting online.
I don't think this will be the last shock to hit this Tour either.
It could be a "no winner" repeat.
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 06:51:04
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Stu Fleming <stewart@wic.co.nz > wrote in
news:46a6e9e8$1@news2.actrix.gen.nz:
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
>> news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>>
>>
>> Still very little information.
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/
>> jul25news
>>
>>
> After the TT, I went to bed and mentioned to my wife "...Astana - the
> whole team is juiced..." - I was waiting for the Chung chart before
> commenting online.
>
> I don't think this will be the last shock to hit this Tour either.
> It could be a "no winner" repeat.
>
Yeah. If the conspiracy guys are right, they DQ Rasmussen, probably with
positives for angel dust, DMT, and Pam cooking spray. So who is in the
lead, Contador. He's from Discovery and no fucking way another Armstrong
clone is winning the tour. So Contador is DQ'd as well. By now, they are
getting good at it so they will start getting really creative with the
false positives. Contador will probably be shown to be a woman and
pregnant, which will violate some weird rule and he gets tossed. He won't
help his case when 6 months later he gives birth to a healthy baby boy,
claiming he only carried the baby because space aliens impregnated him.
That would leave Evans, who is a native english speaker, he can't win
because people would think it was Armstrong again. So then Evans is gone,
I'm thinking tragic bowhunting accident during the time trial. So
Leipheimer is in the lead, but he's even worse than Contador not only
because of the Disco/Armstrong thing but also because everyone hates a guy
with a hot wife. Maybe he goes down by the same arrow that felled Evans in
a replay of the one-bullet scenario from a certain motorcade in Dallas in
1963. Probably not though, that's too obvious. Leipheimer will wake up to
find Hincapie's severed head in bed with him, get the message, and withdraw
after giving the part to the Italian singer for good luck. Then the podium
would be Sastre, Zubeldia, and Kirchen. I don't see any problems with the
first two, but T-Mobile still has Sinkewhatever to pay for and all the
years we wasted watching Ullrich and company get beat by Armstrong. So
Kirchen is gone, bad clams will play a role. That leaves Astarloza, who as
far as I know isn't a problem. An all-Spanish podium. Moreau is probably
extremely pissed he didn't ride harder.
I may be crazy, but I have this all worked out.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 10:40:48
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
On 25 Jul 2007 06:51:04 GMT, William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Stu Fleming <stewart@wic.co.nz> wrote in
>news:46a6e9e8$1@news2.actrix.gen.nz:
>
>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
>>> news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
>>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still very little information.
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/
>>> jul25news
>>>
>>>
>> After the TT, I went to bed and mentioned to my wife "...Astana - the
>> whole team is juiced..." - I was waiting for the Chung chart before
>> commenting online.
>>
>> I don't think this will be the last shock to hit this Tour either.
>> It could be a "no winner" repeat.
>>
>
>Yeah. If the conspiracy guys are right, they DQ Rasmussen, probably with
>positives for angel dust, DMT, and Pam cooking spray. So who is in the
>lead, Contador. He's from Discovery and no fucking way another Armstrong
>clone is winning the tour. So Contador is DQ'd as well. By now, they are
>getting good at it so they will start getting really creative with the
>false positives. Contador will probably be shown to be a woman and
>pregnant, which will violate some weird rule and he gets tossed. He won't
>help his case when 6 months later he gives birth to a healthy baby boy,
>claiming he only carried the baby because space aliens impregnated him.
>That would leave Evans, who is a native english speaker, he can't win
>because people would think it was Armstrong again. So then Evans is gone,
>I'm thinking tragic bowhunting accident during the time trial. So
>Leipheimer is in the lead, but he's even worse than Contador not only
>because of the Disco/Armstrong thing but also because everyone hates a guy
>with a hot wife. Maybe he goes down by the same arrow that felled Evans in
>a replay of the one-bullet scenario from a certain motorcade in Dallas in
>1963. Probably not though, that's too obvious. Leipheimer will wake up to
>find Hincapie's severed head in bed with him, get the message, and withdraw
>after giving the part to the Italian singer for good luck. Then the podium
>would be Sastre, Zubeldia, and Kirchen. I don't see any problems with the
>first two, but T-Mobile still has Sinkewhatever to pay for and all the
>years we wasted watching Ullrich and company get beat by Armstrong. So
>Kirchen is gone, bad clams will play a role. That leaves Astarloza, who as
>far as I know isn't a problem. An all-Spanish podium. Moreau is probably
>extremely pissed he didn't ride harder.
>
>I may be crazy, but I have this all worked out.
I'm off to my bookie.
Ron
|
| | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2007 09:44:37
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
William Asher wrote:
> Yeah. If the conspiracy guys are right, they DQ Rasmussen, probably with
> positives for angel dust, DMT, and Pam cooking spray. So who is in the
> lead, Contador. He's from Discovery and no fucking way another Armstrong
> clone is winning the tour. So Contador is DQ'd as well. By now, they are
> getting good at it so they will start getting really creative with the
> false positives.
> I may be crazy, but I have this all worked out.
Is it too late to place a bet on Moreau ?
|
| | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 16:32:44
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Frank Drackman wrote:
>
> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
> news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>
>
> Still very little information.
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/j
> ul25news
>
>
>
The bottom line is we maybe shouldn't be so suspicious when someone goes
from bad to good between races or even seasons, but when someone goes from
awful to phenomenal on consecutive stages, something fishy is going on.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 09:57:46
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
William Asher wrote:
> Frank Drackman wrote:
>
>> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
>> news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>>
>> Still very little information.
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/j
>> ul25news
>>
>>
>>
>
> The bottom line is we maybe shouldn't be so suspicious when someone goes
> from bad to good between races or even seasons, but when someone goes from
> awful to phenomenal on consecutive stages, something fishy is going on.
I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
resistance.
Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
(not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
Mark J.
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 20:25:15
From: MkTm
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Mark wrote:
> William Asher wrote:
>> Frank Drackman wrote:
>>
>>> "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr> wrote in message
>>> news:46a62449$0$18879$426a34cc@news.free.fr...
>>>> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2007/20070724_171249Dev.html
>>>>
>>> Still very little information.
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/j
>>> ul25news
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The bottom line is we maybe shouldn't be so suspicious when someone
>> goes from bad to good between races or even seasons, but when someone
>> goes from awful to phenomenal on consecutive stages, something fishy
>> is going on.
>
> I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
> the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
> resistance.
>
> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
> Mark J.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm
"Informed by the Astana management, the organisers of the Tour de France
invited the team to withdraw, which was immediately accepted."
|
| | | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 14:24:05
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
MkTm wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>> I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
>> the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
>> resistance.
>>
>> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
>> ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
>> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>>
>> Mark J.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/6914301.stm
>
> "Informed by the Astana management, the organisers of the Tour de France
> invited the team to withdraw, which was immediately accepted."
Thanks, I've since seen it confirmed on the official tour page that the
organizers asked. It's Astana's seemingly willing compliance that
puzzles me - several plausible explanations for that have been offered
in this thread. Alternately, who knows what ASO "offered" to do if
their "invitation" was /not/ accepted.
Mark J.
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 19:35:59
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Mark <remove.mandmlj.this@remove.comcast.this.net > writes:
> I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
> the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
> resistance.
Davey went to that Third Rate Rag, having been referred from RBR
The Grammar, Spelling and Journalistic Style, not to mention the
ridiculous Translations are Disgraceful
Not to mention that much of their "News" is up to 48 Hours Old
Luckily I only go there occasionally when following a Quoted
URL/Reference
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher
esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
|
| | | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 12:48:35
From: WeaselPoopPower
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Davey Crockett wrote:
> Mark <remove.mandmlj.this@remove.comcast.this.net> writes:
>
>
>> I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
>> the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
>> resistance.
>
> Davey went to that Third Rate Rag, having been referred from RBR
>
> The Grammar, Spelling and Journalistic Style, not to mention the
> ridiculous Translations are Disgraceful
>
> Not to mention that much of their "News" is up to 48 Hours Old
>
> Luckily I only go there occasionally when following a Quoted
> URL/Reference
>
Velonews has more of David (I got caught but your a jackass) Millar here
and they went with a foaming mouth shot of Vino, nice touch!
http://velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12910.0.html
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 17:00:48
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
Mark wrote:
>
> I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
> the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
> resistance.
>
> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
> ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.
It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 17:37:17
From: Mike Iglesias
Subject: Re: Tell us it ain't so !
|
In article <Xns997765D12D7E4FkldeltaC@130.133.1.4 >,
William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Mark wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't get it. If the awkward cyclingnews translations are correct,
>> the /entire Astana team/ has withdrawn, and apparently without any
>> resistance.
>>
>> Even with the draconian anti-doping rules adopted this year, was there
>> ever a requirement that the /entire team/ of a
>> (not-yet-B-sample-conifirmed!) doper should withdraw?
>
>Someone else on Astana would test positive too. They can't afford that.
>
>It takes two to tango. Think Perez/Hamilton.
I bet all the Astana riders are going to get some extra out-of-competition
testing soon...
--
Mike Iglesias Email: iglesias@uci.edu
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
|
|
