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Date: 23 Feb 2007 08:07:36
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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I've got a page I've put together from Sierra Road on the Tour of
California's 3rd Stage, showing the valiant efforts of a fan helping some of
the guys get up the hill. But is it likely that someone (a rider) could get
into trouble since their identities are obvious? Max duration of a push was
6 seconds, typical 4. Also one very lengthy windbreaker handoff.
I suppose I could obscure the numbers and not mention names, but does it
matter?
Thanks-
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 11:16:43
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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On Feb 23, 2:00 pm, "rick-pau...@uiowa.edu" <rick-pau...@uiowa.edu >
wrote:
> > I think the commissionaires have to have seen it in person.
>
> > --
> > E. Dronkert
>
> Nope. But some officials view penalties that way, others will listen
> to eyewitnesses. Asault is a case in point. Sitting out laps on the
> back side of a crit course. There are a few others infractions that
> officials should take the word of unbiased witnesses.
No. Officials are only supposed to make decisions based on what they
observe, but this includes photos and video. This can happen sometime
after the race but there is a self-imposed statute of limitations.
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 23:33:10
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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>> Nope. But some officials view penalties that way, others will listen
>> to eyewitnesses. Asault is a case in point. Sitting out laps on the
>> back side of a crit course. There are a few others infractions that
>> officials should take the word of unbiased witnesses.
>
> No. Officials are only supposed to make decisions based on what they
> observe, but this includes photos and video. This can happen sometime
> after the race but there is a self-imposed statute of limitations.
So do I post the link to the photos or not? Nobody's in contention, with the
exception of the shots of Graeme Brown, who may still be going for the
sprinter's jersey?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 18:51:00
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:33:10 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
>>> Nope. But some officials view penalties that way, others will listen
>>> to eyewitnesses. Asault is a case in point. Sitting out laps on the
>>> back side of a crit course. There are a few others infractions that
>>> officials should take the word of unbiased witnesses.
>>
>> No. Officials are only supposed to make decisions based on what they
>> observe, but this includes photos and video. This can happen sometime
>> after the race but there is a self-imposed statute of limitations.
>
>So do I post the link to the photos or not? Nobody's in contention, with the
>exception of the shots of Graeme Brown, who may still be going for the
>sprinter's jersey?
Wait a week till after the event is over.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 11:00:36
From: rick-paulos@uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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> I think the commissionaires have to have seen it in person.
>
> --
> E. Dronkert
Nope. But some officials view penalties that way, others will listen
to eyewitnesses. Asault is a case in point. Sitting out laps on the
back side of a crit course. There are a few others infractions that
officials should take the word of unbiased witnesses.
Giving a rider a push isn't so bad since the pushed riders are
typically so far out of contention it won't make any difference. I
read somewhere that the tdf organizers intentionally avoid the
steepest climbs just for this reason. In the giro, the contenders are
usually going all out on such climbs, they are being televised and any
pushing just disrupts their efforts. The fines & time penalties are
usually pretty minor.
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 05:46:27
From:
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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On Feb 23, 1:07 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> I've got a page I've put together from Sierra Road on the Tour of
> California's 3rd Stage, showing the valiant efforts of a fan helping some of
> the guys get up the hill. But is it likely that someone (a rider) could get
> into trouble since their identities are obvious? Max duration of a push was
> 6 seconds, typical 4. Also one very lengthy windbreaker handoff.
>
> I suppose I could obscure the numbers and not mention names, but does it
> matter?
>
> Thanks-
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Are you planning to rat on these guys?
Fred
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 17:18:16
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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> Are you planning to rat on these guys?
>
> Fred
"Rat?" Heck no. It's a nice set of photos, I just don't want to get them in
trouble. Nobody in contention was getting any help (er, aside from bottle
hand-offs, but I've left those photos out). In my google picasa site with
the photos, I've even identified the riders (makes it more interesting for
the non-fanatic viewers if they know who they're looking at).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
<fred.garvin@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1172238387.643039.157790@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 23, 1:07 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>> I've got a page I've put together from Sierra Road on the Tour of
>> California's 3rd Stage, showing the valiant efforts of a fan helping some
>> of
>> the guys get up the hill. But is it likely that someone (a rider) could
>> get
>> into trouble since their identities are obvious? Max duration of a push
>> was
>> 6 seconds, typical 4. Also one very lengthy windbreaker handoff.
>>
>> I suppose I could obscure the numbers and not mention names, but does it
>> matter?
>>
>> Thanks-
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> Are you planning to rat on these guys?
>
> Fred
>
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 09:35:53
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:07:36 GMT, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> But is it likely that someone (a rider) could get
> into trouble since their identities are obvious?
I think the commissionaires have to have seen it in person.
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 23 Feb 2007 14:29:06
From: Bob Martin
Subject: Re: The Art of the Push (legal?)
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in 537050 20070223 083553 Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid > wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:07:36 GMT, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> But is it likely that someone (a rider) could get
>> into trouble since their identities are obvious?
>
>I think the commissionaires have to have seen it in person.
I've always thought what a stupid rule this was - if I want to damage a rider's
standing I just get a few friends positioned along a climb and we each give
him a good long push.
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