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Date: 10 May 2007 14:01:22
From:
Subject: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/
A Chicago Tribune Sports Weblog by Philip Hersh
May 10, 2007
Lance in the shadows
The Tour of Italy begins Saturday without both its defending champion,
Ivan Basso, and its 2002 runner-up, Tyler Hamilton.
Floyd Landis begins the race for his cycling life Monday in a Malibu,
Calif., hearing room.
The link among them? Doping -- and Lance Armstrong.
The circumstances that put each of these three riders where they are -
or aren't - lengthen the shadows over Armstrong's reputation as one of
the greatest champions in an increasingly infamous sport.
Guilt by association? True of almost everyone in cycling's elite,
perhaps a little more for Armstrong, who maintains he never took
banned performance-enhancing drugs yet utterly dominated the Tour de
France when it was full of dopers.
I'll begin with the necessary disclaimer: Armstrong never has been
sanctioned for doping and officially has tested positive just once --
that was traces of a banned corticosteroid in a skin cream for saddle
sores that he had a therapeutic exemption to use. The exemption, it
has been reported, was conveniently post-dated, an apparently routine
practice in cycling.
The French newspaper L'Equipe reported in 2005 that retroactive
retesting of frozen urine samples from Armstrong's first Tour de
France triumph year, 1999, found him positive six times for EPO, the
banned blood-booster cycling did not test for until 2001. But
Armstrong thinks L'Equipe is nothing more than a shill for the Tour
management that belongs to the same parent company. Why that
management would want disgrace cast on its race is hard to understand.
Suspicious? Sure. Indisputable proof? Hardly.
But Lance's riding buddies face more than suspicions.
Hamilton? Support rider for Armstrong in three of his seven Tour de
France victories. Returned to competition this season after serving
two-year suspension for blood doping. Suspended Wednesday from
competing in the Tour of Italy by his new team, Tinkoff Credit
Systems. Why? Hamilton's name has been linked to the Spanish doctor at
the center of Operation Puerto, the biggest scandal to hit a sport
that has known little but scandal for a decade.
Landis? Support rider for Armstrong in three of his Tour de France
victories. Tested positive for anabolic steroid testosterone after he
went from a beaten rider to Tour de France winner during the dramatic
17th stage of the 2006 race. Like Hamilton, maintains his innocence.
Landis' defense team will argue at the hearing that bad science, bad
bookkeeping and what they call a suspect lab all contributed to an
unfair conclusion that Landis had doped.
Basso? Would be riding for Armstrong's old Discovery Channel team, of
which Armstrong is a co-owner, were he not caught up in Operation
Puerto. Basso quit the team last month, six days after it suspended
him, but you'll still find his picture and bio on the Discovery
cycling Web site, not far from the link to the Lance Armstrong
Foundation.
(By the way, Discovery Communications has given up sponsorship of the
cycling team after this season. They're no dopes.)
The Basso situation is, in some ways, the most damning to Armstrong.
The Discovery Channel team, which means Armstrong, gave the proverbial
finger to the cycling world when it signed the Italian last fall,
after he had been banned from the 2006 Tour de France because of his
implication in Operation Puerto.
Tuesday, after fessing up his actual involvement in Operation Puerto
to Italian Olympic Committee investigators, Basso told a news
conference he was guilty only of "attempted doping" in a "moment of
weakness." He said he had never taken a doping substance or engaged
in blood doping.
Such a lovely turn of phrase: attempted doping. Isn't that like an
attempted robbery that doesn't get carried out because the police show
up and catch you hiding in the shadows?
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Date: 16 May 2007 01:24:24
From: Tuschinski
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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On May 16, 12:02 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
> > OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts. I've got
> > it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean dopers.
>
> It all comes down to detergent usage.
Mmmm... Basso can hardly be linked to Lance. Hamilton and Landis are a
tad easier to connect to disco, but even then Disco is the link
between them, not a direct connection.
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Date: 16 May 2007 07:25:15
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Tuschinski wrote:
> On May 16, 12:02 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>>> OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts. I've got
>>> it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean dopers.
>> It all comes down to detergent usage.
>
> Mmmm... Basso can hardly be linked to Lance. Hamilton and Landis are a
> tad easier to connect to disco, but even then Disco is the link
> between them, not a direct connection.
>
Well, the article presumes that Armstrong runs Discovery so, by their
reasoning, Lance hired Basso. I wonder if Armstrong runs Trek and Nike too?
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Date: 16 May 2007 14:32:33
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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In article <V9Kdnfnzj_zWidbbnZ2dnUVZ_vLinZ2d@comcast.com >,
Fred Fredburger <FredFredburger@WhereAreTheNachos.huh > wrote:
> Tuschinski wrote:
> > On May 16, 12:02 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Fred Fredburger wrote:
> >>> OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts. I've got
> >>> it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean dopers.
> >> It all comes down to detergent usage.
> >
> > Mmmm... Basso can hardly be linked to Lance. Hamilton and Landis are a
> > tad easier to connect to disco, but even then Disco is the link
> > between them, not a direct connection.
> >
>
> Well, the article presumes that Armstrong runs Discovery so, by their
> reasoning, Lance hired Basso. I wonder if Armstrong runs Trek and Nike too?
I'm not sure. Does he have a substantial ownership stake (to the
company, not to him) in Trek and Nike, along with routine interaction
with all principals and employees?
Not saying he did hire Basso, but I bet he gave substantive input on the
decision to do so,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 16 May 2007 17:11:27
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <V9Kdnfnzj_zWidbbnZ2dnUVZ_vLinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Fred Fredburger <FredFredburger@WhereAreTheNachos.huh> wrote:
>
>> Tuschinski wrote:
>>> On May 16, 12:02 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>>>>> OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts. I've got
>>>>> it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean dopers.
>>>> It all comes down to detergent usage.
>>> Mmmm... Basso can hardly be linked to Lance. Hamilton and Landis are a
>>> tad easier to connect to disco, but even then Disco is the link
>>> between them, not a direct connection.
>>>
>> Well, the article presumes that Armstrong runs Discovery so, by their
>> reasoning, Lance hired Basso. I wonder if Armstrong runs Trek and Nike too?
>
> I'm not sure. Does he have a substantial ownership stake (to the
> company, not to him) in Trek and Nike, along with routine interaction
> with all principals and employees?
>
> Not saying he did hire Basso, but I bet he gave substantive input on the
> decision to do so,
>
I think you're dismissing "the guilt by association" angle entirely too
easily here. The correct answer is "Yes, Armstrong IS responsible for
Nike's asian sweatshops."
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Date: 17 May 2007 08:39:09
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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On Wed, 16 May 2007 17:11:27 -0700, Fred Fredburger <Spam@spambot.com >
wrote:
>I think you're dismissing "the guilt by association" angle entirely too
>easily here. The correct answer is "Yes, Armstrong IS responsible for
>Nike's asian sweatshops."
Partial answer only. Complete answer includes: " ...and his sweat
shops do twice as much work because of their 'special' coffee."
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 17 May 2007 15:13:13
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Partial answer only. Complete answer includes: " ...and his sweat
> shops do twice as much work because of their 'special' coffee."
Presumably Lafferties French roast coffee.
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Date: 16 May 2007 15:55:28
From: Bob in CT
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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On Wed, 16 May 2007 10:32:33 -0400, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <V9Kdnfnzj_zWidbbnZ2dnUVZ_vLinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Fred Fredburger <FredFredburger@WhereAreTheNachos.huh> wrote:
>
>> Tuschinski wrote:
>> > On May 16, 12:02 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>> >>> OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts.
>> I've got
>> >>> it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean
>> dopers.
>> >> It all comes down to detergent usage.
>> >
>> > Mmmm... Basso can hardly be linked to Lance. Hamilton and Landis are a
>> > tad easier to connect to disco, but even then Disco is the link
>> > between them, not a direct connection.
>> >
>>
>> Well, the article presumes that Armstrong runs Discovery so, by their
>> reasoning, Lance hired Basso. I wonder if Armstrong runs Trek and Nike
>> too?
>
> I'm not sure. Does he have a substantial ownership stake (to the
> company, not to him) in Trek and Nike, along with routine interaction
> with all principals and employees?
>
> Not saying he did hire Basso, but I bet he gave substantive input on the
> decision to do so,
>
Shoot, I'd hire Basso. Who wouldn't hire Basso?
--
Bob in CT
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Date: 17 May 2007 01:36:45
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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"Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:op.tsfqyqgv3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
>
> Shoot, I'd hire Basso. Who wouldn't hire Basso?
All those here who consider themselves, like, really smart.
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Date: 16 May 2007 19:43:24
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:op.tsfqyqgv3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
>> Shoot, I'd hire Basso. Who wouldn't hire Basso?
>
> All those here who consider themselves, like, really smart.
>
>
Yeah, but what if you hired him and it turned out that he liked
andouille? Then YOU would like andouille too, and that'd be icky.
Since we're operating in a world where guilt by association runs
rampant, the only SAFE thing to do is to lock yourself in the closet and
never come out lest you be seen with someone else and become guilty of
everything they'd done.
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Date: 16 May 2007 22:34:52
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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In article <G6idncUzKP_QXNbbnZ2dnUVZ_q-vnZ2d@comcast.com >,
Fred Fredburger <Spam@spambot.com > wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > "Bob in CT" <ctviggen.x@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:op.tsfqyqgv3plkkk@esq03.mfh.com...
> >> Shoot, I'd hire Basso. Who wouldn't hire Basso?
> >
> > All those here who consider themselves, like, really smart.
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, but what if you hired him and it turned out that he liked
> andouille? Then YOU would like andouille too, and that'd be icky.
Don't confuse andouille and andouillette. From Wiki: "Traditional andouillette is
made from the colon and the stomach of pig. In modern times, contents vary and
normally contain intestines of pig, cow and/or calf. It is not to be confused with
andouille sausage, which is much spicier, but more mild in animal-derived smells."
"Animal-derived smells" translates to "it sometimes smells like shit."
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 14 May 2007 15:26:13
From: MMan
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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dupedcyclist@aol.com wrote:
> http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/
>
> A Chicago Tribune Sports Weblog by Philip Hersh
Chicago Tribune?
Hersh should demand that President Dewey do something about doping!
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Date: 13 May 2007 20:55:26
From: B. Lafferty
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Poor Phil. Now he's on Lance's shit list.
<dupedcyclist@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1178830882.096994.306350@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/
>
> A Chicago Tribune Sports Weblog by Philip Hersh
>
> May 10, 2007
> Lance in the shadows
>
> The Tour of Italy begins Saturday without both its defending champion,
> Ivan Basso, and its 2002 runner-up, Tyler Hamilton.
>
> Floyd Landis begins the race for his cycling life Monday in a Malibu,
> Calif., hearing room.
>
> The link among them? Doping -- and Lance Armstrong.
>
> The circumstances that put each of these three riders where they are -
> or aren't - lengthen the shadows over Armstrong's reputation as one of
> the greatest champions in an increasingly infamous sport.
>
> Guilt by association? True of almost everyone in cycling's elite,
> perhaps a little more for Armstrong, who maintains he never took
> banned performance-enhancing drugs yet utterly dominated the Tour de
> France when it was full of dopers.
>
> I'll begin with the necessary disclaimer: Armstrong never has been
> sanctioned for doping and officially has tested positive just once --
> that was traces of a banned corticosteroid in a skin cream for saddle
> sores that he had a therapeutic exemption to use. The exemption, it
> has been reported, was conveniently post-dated, an apparently routine
> practice in cycling.
>
> The French newspaper L'Equipe reported in 2005 that retroactive
> retesting of frozen urine samples from Armstrong's first Tour de
> France triumph year, 1999, found him positive six times for EPO, the
> banned blood-booster cycling did not test for until 2001. But
> Armstrong thinks L'Equipe is nothing more than a shill for the Tour
> management that belongs to the same parent company. Why that
> management would want disgrace cast on its race is hard to understand.
>
> Suspicious? Sure. Indisputable proof? Hardly.
>
> But Lance's riding buddies face more than suspicions.
>
> Hamilton? Support rider for Armstrong in three of his seven Tour de
> France victories. Returned to competition this season after serving
> two-year suspension for blood doping. Suspended Wednesday from
> competing in the Tour of Italy by his new team, Tinkoff Credit
> Systems. Why? Hamilton's name has been linked to the Spanish doctor at
> the center of Operation Puerto, the biggest scandal to hit a sport
> that has known little but scandal for a decade.
> Landis? Support rider for Armstrong in three of his Tour de France
> victories. Tested positive for anabolic steroid testosterone after he
> went from a beaten rider to Tour de France winner during the dramatic
> 17th stage of the 2006 race. Like Hamilton, maintains his innocence.
> Landis' defense team will argue at the hearing that bad science, bad
> bookkeeping and what they call a suspect lab all contributed to an
> unfair conclusion that Landis had doped.
> Basso? Would be riding for Armstrong's old Discovery Channel team, of
> which Armstrong is a co-owner, were he not caught up in Operation
> Puerto. Basso quit the team last month, six days after it suspended
> him, but you'll still find his picture and bio on the Discovery
> cycling Web site, not far from the link to the Lance Armstrong
> Foundation.
> (By the way, Discovery Communications has given up sponsorship of the
> cycling team after this season. They're no dopes.)
>
> The Basso situation is, in some ways, the most damning to Armstrong.
> The Discovery Channel team, which means Armstrong, gave the proverbial
> finger to the cycling world when it signed the Italian last fall,
> after he had been banned from the 2006 Tour de France because of his
> implication in Operation Puerto.
>
> Tuesday, after fessing up his actual involvement in Operation Puerto
> to Italian Olympic Committee investigators, Basso told a news
> conference he was guilty only of "attempted doping" in a "moment of
> weakness." He said he had never taken a doping substance or engaged
> in blood doping.
>
> Such a lovely turn of phrase: attempted doping. Isn't that like an
> attempted robbery that doesn't get carried out because the police show
> up and catch you hiding in the shadows?
>
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Date: 14 May 2007 19:55:04
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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B. Lafferty wrote:
> Poor Phil. Now he's on Lance's shit list.
>
It's a real shame that Lance didn't get busted and banned for a couple
years. It would have given clean riders, like Ullrich and Basso, a
chance to win.
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Date: 16 May 2007 00:30:52
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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"Fred Fredburger" <Spam@spambot.com > wrote in message
news:F9adnUgvvcaAvNTbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>> Poor Phil. Now he's on Lance's shit list.
>>
> It's a real shame that Lance didn't get busted and banned for a couple
> years. It would have given clean riders, like Ullrich and Basso, a chance
> to win.
You seem to have missed Laff@me's real point - it was MUCH worse because he
was Lance and not someone else.
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Date: 15 May 2007 23:35:06
From: Fred Fredburger
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Fred Fredburger" <Spam@spambot.com> wrote in message
> news:F9adnUgvvcaAvNTbnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> B. Lafferty wrote:
>>> Poor Phil. Now he's on Lance's shit list.
>>>
>> It's a real shame that Lance didn't get busted and banned for a couple
>> years. It would have given clean riders, like Ullrich and Basso, a chance
>> to win.
>
> You seem to have missed Laff@me's real point - it was MUCH worse because he
> was Lance and not someone else.
>
>
OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts. I've got
it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean dopers.
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Date: 16 May 2007 10:02:30
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: The Chicago Tribune weighs in on Armstrong-Hamilton-Landis-Basso.
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Fred Fredburger wrote:
> OK, I see. I have a way of missing the point of Lafferty posts. I've got
> it now. Lance was a dirty doper and Ully and Basso were clean dopers.
It all comes down to detergent usage.
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