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Main
Date: 06 Jul 2007 10:54:09
From: just bob
Subject: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
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I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
considering not watching the tdf this year.
A little background I feel is appropriate. I'm just a fan, and just a fan of
the tdf and now the Tour of California because it's in the Bay Area where I
live.
I have watched the tdf for the last seven years or so pretty religiously,
even downloading the torrents of every stage last year. Yes, I only started
watching when Lance was winning so I guess I'm a fair weathered fan. But an
emotional one. The heavy tv coverage on cable was amazing - I just could not
stop watching and my dad and enjoy talking about the stages etc.
My dad has always been a bigger fan. He re-married a French woman and I
think he enjoys the sport-bonding with her during July. Last year I watched
and really enjoyed it, too, but I don't think it's because an American won.
I really don't care as long as it's interesting. I wanted to see who was
going to take over the mantle. My real sports heroes have always been
international stars like F1 racers Senna, Mansell, Hakkinen. F1 sucks now
and I've been a bigger MotoGP nut because of Valentino Rossi and but by no
small degree the integrity of the sport.
But I am so pissed about the doping thing last year, when he asked yesterday
I told my father I can't bear to watch and would not waste my time and get
emotionally involved. Mostly because I do not know who to believe.
From what little I read, my impression is Lance believes the testing system
is flawed. Yet he did not come out to support Floyd, as far as I can tell. I
read in the paper earlier this year that Floyd had that thing to raise money
in the Bay area during the Tour of California and Lance was not there to
support him. I drew my own conclusions, and no one in the papers every
seemed to put that together. I feel, if he thought Floyd was clean, I think
Lance should have been the #1 witness. I think the whole country would have
stood up for Floyd if Lance had gotten on the public bandwagon. So WTF? You
are either passionate about your sport and believe or you don't. Something
stinks here.
It's these mixed signals which has me confused to the point where I feel
like if I watch I'm just going to have my experience and emotions crushed by
crap that happens off the track.
I guess this is kinda how some baseball fans feel, after the strike and
their own doping scandals.
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 23:13:05
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Jul 6, 7:23 pm, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net > wrote:
> I've heard various people opine that if cycling would just withdraw from
> the Olympics, they could tell WADA to go <bleep> themselves. But in my
> mind, that statement begs this question: how come professional baseball
> and basketball, both Olympic sports, don't have to submit to the
> same WADA dope controls that cycling does?
dumbass,
The NBA and MLB are not WADA compliant but the governing bodies of
their respective sports are. so an NBA player who is selected to play
in a FIBA competition is subject to WADA out of competition testing
and the same sanctions, but the leagues aren't bound to uphold their
WADA penalties.
if a player tests positive in the league's own tests he is penalized
by the league and would likely be banned from international
competition according to WADA rules (i don't know if this has ever
happened though).
the oddity in cycling is that the governing body for the highest paid
pros is the same body that governs all the amateurs and all the other
disciplines.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 14:08:58
From:
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
> No, they - we - didn't ignore it, but kept more in proportion than the Pat
> McQuaid and his ilk today. As I wrote before, Tim Krabb=E9, the author of=
"The
> Rider" said on Flemish TV: "There are 67 things more interesting in cycli=
ng
> than doping." I think most fans in the traditional cycling countries of
> France, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands basically agree.
>
> Benjo
Doping the 68th most interesting thing in cycling? (Or any sport?) I
think that's only true *if* every last pro rider is on drugs.
If not -- and I think the Riis scandal, particularly his rise from
journeyman obscurity all the way to the pinnacle of the pro ranks,
strongly suggests that many of the other riders were not on drugs --
then the most interesting thing about cycling is precisely the mindset
of those who are not doping. And also those who were already near the
top (unlike Riis at the start of his career), know that only some guys
are doping, and choose to dope anyway to reach the very top. The
moral drama that must be unfolding in the pro ranks is common to every
field where cheating is possible, but I think is endlessly
fascinating. (My thoughts on this are pretty much all deposited here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/cyclings-latest-scandal_b_495=
51.html)
Likewise I think it's the most interesting question in baseball too,
where it also appears form the limited evidence that some large but
sub-90% portion of the pros are doped up -- meaning some code of
silence is at work, even among the numerous clean athletes. For god's
sake, every third baseball player is religious enough to be a tither
-- and they maintain Omerta too? What is going on in their heads? I'm
always reminded of Dennis Christopher's character in Breaking Away
coming home after the big race against the Italians and telling his
mother "everyone cheats." And yet he didn't, and he didn't stop trying
either. Is the presence of moral hazard the basis of the common appeal
of sports, rather than its meritocratic aspects? Fas-cin-ating.--
Shayana Kadidal
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 22:04:42
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 14:08:58 -0700, shayana.kadidal@gmail.com wrote:
>> No, they - we - didn't ignore it, but kept more in proportion than the Pat
>> McQuaid and his ilk today. As I wrote before, Tim Krabbé, the author of "The
>> Rider" said on Flemish TV: "There are 67 things more interesting in cycling
>> than doping." I think most fans in the traditional cycling countries of
>> France, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands basically agree.
>>
>> Benjo
>
>
>Doping the 68th most interesting thing in cycling? (Or any sport?) I
>think that's only true *if* every last pro rider is on drugs.
>
>If not -- and I think the Riis scandal, particularly his rise from
>journeyman obscurity all the way to the pinnacle of the pro ranks,
>strongly suggests that many of the other riders were not on drugs --
>then the most interesting thing about cycling is precisely the mindset
>of those who are not doping. And also those who were already near the
>top (unlike Riis at the start of his career), know that only some guys
>are doping, and choose to dope anyway to reach the very top. The
>moral drama that must be unfolding in the pro ranks is common to every
>field where cheating is possible, but I think is endlessly
>fascinating. (My thoughts on this are pretty much all deposited here:
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/cyclings-latest-scandal_b_49551.html)
>
>Likewise I think it's the most interesting question in baseball too,
>where it also appears form the limited evidence that some large but
>sub-90% portion of the pros are doped up -- meaning some code of
>silence is at work, even among the numerous clean athletes. For god's
>sake, every third baseball player is religious enough to be a tither
>-- and they maintain Omerta too? What is going on in their heads?
Why see it as a moral issue, it's a practical matter. Why would Joe object to
Bob doing what he feels is necessary to prepare, even if it is something Joe
doesn't find necessary or useful. Some guys don't do a lot of weights, others
live in the gym, some guys do more dope than others.
If there was a pill that made you better at your job, wouldn't you be a dumbass
if you didn't take it? Why would that be different if you were an athlete? If a
coworker took the pill and you didn't, would you rat him out? Would being an
athlete change that?
You keep calling it cheating and obviously the guys who play the game disagree
with you. I consider them the experts. Cheating is in the eye of the
participant. It may or may not be the same thing as breaking a rule. I am sure
that the payphones would get some use if the riders or ballplayers considered
doping cheating.
Ron
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 19:34:58
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Jul 6, 8:29 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
> In article <1183765222.965992.82...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, ilan...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> > What about Dressage? I think there could be a movie in there "They
> > Test Horses Don't They?"
>
> No, the movie would (still) be called "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" but I guess
> that would be a reference to destructive testing.
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard
>
> Never take a tenant with a monkey.
>
> remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Or in reference to doping the horses, ala Holmes 7% solution.
Bill C
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 23:40:22
From:
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Jul 7, 1:23 am, bob sullivan <bsull...@comcast.net > wrote:
> just bob wrote:
> > I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
> > considering not watching the tdf this year.
>
> > A little background I feel is appropriate. I'm just a fan, and just a fan of
> > the tdf and now the Tour of California because it's in the Bay Area where I
> > live.
>
> > I have watched the tdf for the last seven years or so pretty religiously,
> > even downloading the torrents of every stage last year. Yes, I only started
> > watching when Lance was winning so I guess I'm a fair weathered fan. But an
> > emotional one. The heavy tv coverage on cable was amazing - I just could not
> > stop watching and my dad and enjoy talking about the stages etc.
>
> > My dad has always been a bigger fan. He re-married a French woman and I
> > think he enjoys the sport-bonding with her during July. Last year I watched
> > and really enjoyed it, too, but I don't think it's because an American won.
> > I really don't care as long as it's interesting. I wanted to see who was
> > going to take over the mantle. My real sports heroes have always been
> > international stars like F1 racers Senna, Mansell, Hakkinen. F1 sucks now
> > and I've been a bigger MotoGP nut because of Valentino Rossi and but by no
> > small degree the integrity of the sport.
>
> > But I am so pissed about the doping thing last year, when he asked yesterday
> > I told my father I can't bear to watch and would not waste my time and get
> > emotionally involved. Mostly because I do not know who to believe.
>
> > From what little I read, my impression is Lance believes the testing system
> > is flawed. Yet he did not come out to support Floyd, as far as I can tell. I
> > read in the paper earlier this year that Floyd had that thing to raise money
> > in the Bay area during the Tour of California and Lance was not there to
> > support him. I drew my own conclusions, and no one in the papers every
> > seemed to put that together. I feel, if he thought Floyd was clean, I think
> > Lance should have been the #1 witness. I think the whole country would have
> > stood up for Floyd if Lance had gotten on the public bandwagon. So WTF? You
> > are either passionate about your sport and believe or you don't. Something
> > stinks here.
>
> > It's these mixed signals which has me confused to the point where I feel
> > like if I watch I'm just going to have my experience and emotions crushed by
> > crap that happens off the track.
>
> > I guess this is kinda how some baseball fans feel, after the strike and
> > their own doping scandals.
>
> You gotta keep it in perspective. Cycling has found tons of dopers
> because cycling is testing for dopers. If you don't look for them,
> there's very little chance you'll find them. There are dopers in
> other sports, but many of the other sports aren't testing for them.
> There's no off-season testing for Major League Baseball and National
> Basketball Association because the players unions are strong enough
> to prevent it.
>
> I've heard various people opine that if cycling would just withdraw from
> the Olympics, they could tell WADA to go <bleep> themselves. But in my
> mind, that statement begs this question: how come professional baseball
> and basketball, both Olympic sports, don't have to submit to the
> same WADA dope controls that cycling does?
>
> ~bob s.
What about Dressage? I think there could be a movie in there "They
Test Horses Don't They?"
-ilan
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 17:29:57
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
In article <1183765222.965992.82270@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com >, ilanpsi@gmail.com
wrote:
> What about Dressage? I think there could be a movie in there "They
> Test Horses Don't They?"
No, the movie would (still) be called "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" but I guess
that would be a reference to destructive testing.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 23:33:57
From: bob sullivan
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article <1183765222.965992.82270@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, ilanpsi@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> What about Dressage? I think there could be a movie in there "They
>> Test Horses Don't They?"
>
> No, the movie would (still) be called "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" but I guess
> that would be a reference to destructive testing.
Wouldn't it be called "They Shoot *Up* Horses, Don't They?"?
~bob s.
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 19:23:03
From: bob sullivan
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
just bob wrote:
> I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
> considering not watching the tdf this year.
>
> A little background I feel is appropriate. I'm just a fan, and just a fan of
> the tdf and now the Tour of California because it's in the Bay Area where I
> live.
>
> I have watched the tdf for the last seven years or so pretty religiously,
> even downloading the torrents of every stage last year. Yes, I only started
> watching when Lance was winning so I guess I'm a fair weathered fan. But an
> emotional one. The heavy tv coverage on cable was amazing - I just could not
> stop watching and my dad and enjoy talking about the stages etc.
>
> My dad has always been a bigger fan. He re-married a French woman and I
> think he enjoys the sport-bonding with her during July. Last year I watched
> and really enjoyed it, too, but I don't think it's because an American won.
> I really don't care as long as it's interesting. I wanted to see who was
> going to take over the mantle. My real sports heroes have always been
> international stars like F1 racers Senna, Mansell, Hakkinen. F1 sucks now
> and I've been a bigger MotoGP nut because of Valentino Rossi and but by no
> small degree the integrity of the sport.
>
> But I am so pissed about the doping thing last year, when he asked yesterday
> I told my father I can't bear to watch and would not waste my time and get
> emotionally involved. Mostly because I do not know who to believe.
>
> From what little I read, my impression is Lance believes the testing system
> is flawed. Yet he did not come out to support Floyd, as far as I can tell. I
> read in the paper earlier this year that Floyd had that thing to raise money
> in the Bay area during the Tour of California and Lance was not there to
> support him. I drew my own conclusions, and no one in the papers every
> seemed to put that together. I feel, if he thought Floyd was clean, I think
> Lance should have been the #1 witness. I think the whole country would have
> stood up for Floyd if Lance had gotten on the public bandwagon. So WTF? You
> are either passionate about your sport and believe or you don't. Something
> stinks here.
>
> It's these mixed signals which has me confused to the point where I feel
> like if I watch I'm just going to have my experience and emotions crushed by
> crap that happens off the track.
>
> I guess this is kinda how some baseball fans feel, after the strike and
> their own doping scandals.
You gotta keep it in perspective. Cycling has found tons of dopers
because cycling is testing for dopers. If you don't look for them,
there's very little chance you'll find them. There are dopers in
other sports, but many of the other sports aren't testing for them.
There's no off-season testing for Major League Baseball and National
Basketball Association because the players unions are strong enough
to prevent it.
I've heard various people opine that if cycling would just withdraw from
the Olympics, they could tell WADA to go <bleep > themselves. But in my
mind, that statement begs this question: how come professional baseball
and basketball, both Olympic sports, don't have to submit to the
same WADA dope controls that cycling does?
~bob s.
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 18:54:08
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:54:09 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom >
wrote:
>I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
>considering not watching the tdf this year.
So don't.
> It's these mixed signals which has me
> confused to the point where I feel
> like if I watch I'm just going to have my
> experience and emotions crushed by
> crap that happens off the track.
Crushed? It's a bike race. Get some perspective.
Or, did I just get trolled.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 04:07:16
From: just bob
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:ttht83d2rrogjkp0jlt3m4cqjho7adu3a5@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:54:09 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
>>considering not watching the tdf this year.
>
> So don't.
>
>> It's these mixed signals which has me
>> confused to the point where I feel
>> like if I watch I'm just going to have my
>> experience and emotions crushed by
>> crap that happens off the track.
>
> Crushed? It's a bike race. Get some perspective.
I don't know... some fans are very passionate and of course some take it
over the edge. I'm somewhere in the middle: A few times a year I like to go
wild and get into the moment. Like when I attend MotoGP, some people like me
enjoy cheering and blowing the air horns while others are very reserved
wished people like me would STFU.
> Or, did I just get trolled.
It's a fine line, isn't it? I was very surprised to see so many honest
replies and no flames. It tell ms the doping thing cuts to the core of the
fans, and it's not something they are willing to ignore for the love of the
sport.
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 17:10:09
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
In article <468f73e4$0$27156$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net >,
"just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom > wrote:
> I don't know... some fans are very passionate and of course some take it
> over the edge. I'm somewhere in the middle: A few times a year I like to go
> wild and get into the moment. Like when I attend MotoGP, some people like me
> enjoy cheering and blowing the air horns while others are very reserved
> wished people like me would STFU.
Nothing says "I'm excited by and like this event" quite like blowing an airhorn.
So the next time you go to the opera...
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
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Date: 09 Jul 2007 11:32:21
From: just bob
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
"Howard Kveck" <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote in message
news:YOURhoward-36E98C.17100907072007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <468f73e4$0$27156$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote:
>
>> I don't know... some fans are very passionate and of course some take it
>> over the edge. I'm somewhere in the middle: A few times a year I like to
>> go
>> wild and get into the moment. Like when I attend MotoGP, some people like
>> me
>> enjoy cheering and blowing the air horns while others are very reserved
>> wished people like me would STFU.
>
> Nothing says "I'm excited by and like this event" quite like blowing an
> airhorn.
> So the next time you go to the opera...
>
When in Rome....
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Date: 07 Jul 2007 07:57:43
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 04:07:16 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom >
wrote:
> I was very surprised to see so many honest
>replies and no flames. It tell ms the doping thing cuts to the core of the
>fans, and it's not something they are willing to ignore for the love of the
>sport.
Oh, I'm certain there are plenty of fans, especially fans in the
traditional cycling countries of France, Italy, Belgium and the
Netherlands are quire willing to ignore the doping issue.
After all, they've been ignoring it for 50 or 80 years.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 14:48:43
From: benjo maso
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:4rvu831baksgncgkh7lt1967ghjklaijlf@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 04:07:16 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom>
> wrote:
>
>> I was very surprised to see so many honest
>>replies and no flames. It tell ms the doping thing cuts to the core of the
>>fans, and it's not something they are willing to ignore for the love of
>>the
>>sport.
>
> Oh, I'm certain there are plenty of fans, especially fans in the
> traditional cycling countries of France, Italy, Belgium and the
> Netherlands are quire willing to ignore the doping issue.
>
> After all, they've been ignoring it for 50 or 80 years.
No, they - we - didn't ignore it, but kept more in proportion than the Pat
McQuaid and his ilk today. As I wrote before, Tim Krabbé, the author of "The
Rider" said on Flemish TV: "There are 67 things more interesting in cycling
than doping." I think most fans in the traditional cycling countries of
France, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands basically agree.
Benjo
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 21:44:57
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
just bob wrote:
> I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
> considering not watching the tdf this year.
Dumbass,
Early attacks rarely work. Unless you're just trying to get some media
coverage.
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 19:15:31
From:
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Jul 6, 8:51 pm, Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> But it is painful to watch someone like a born again cleanie, David
> Millar, with his perfect form, not being an odds on bet to win a TT or
> Prologue anymore.
I'm not at all convinced that David Millar is currently clean, before
the police found his drugs, a lot of people were convinced he wasn't
doping. And if you consider punished riders as being too repentant to
dope, consider Alex Zulle, who finished 2nd in the 1999 Tour. If he
wasn't doping after his Festina suspension, then that means that
Armstrong beat a clean rider, which reduces suspicion on him given
your even playing field argument (not that Zulle wasn't riding that
much better when he was on EPO).
-ilan
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 14:51:10
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:54:09 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom >
wrote:
>
>From what little I read, my impression is Lance believes the testing system
>is flawed. Yet he did not come out to support Floyd, as far as I can tell. I
>read in the paper earlier this year that Floyd had that thing to raise money
>in the Bay area during the Tour of California and Lance was not there to
>support him. I drew my own conclusions, and no one in the papers every
>seemed to put that together. I feel, if he thought Floyd was clean, I think
>Lance should have been the #1 witness. I think the whole country would have
>stood up for Floyd if Lance had gotten on the public bandwagon. So WTF? You
>are either passionate about your sport and believe or you don't. Something
>stinks here.
Lance turns on anyone who leaves his team without "permission", Kevin
Livingston and Floyd being two examples. Lance would not support
Floyd personally because he hates his guts, and vice versa. Lance
would support Floyd as far as the testing because Omerta says all
riders stick together, deny that they dope, blame the system, and
don't rat anybody out.
What stinks is the circumstantial probability is that Lance doped as
much as any other rider of his era. Which makes the playing field of
his achievements level, but does not say much as to his honesty or
integrity, or for that matter, that of the sport.
What doesn't matter for spectators is that so long as the playing
filed is level, then any bike race, from one day classics to stage
races to grand tours, are exciting as hell to follow.
But it is painful to watch someone like a born again cleanie, David
Millar, with his perfect form, not being an odds on bet to win a TT or
Prologue anymore.
|
| |
Date: 06 Jul 2007 18:44:20
From:
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Jul 6, 8:24 pm, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> just bob schreef:
>
> > But I am so pissed about the doping thing last year
>
> It has always been there. It is just that pro cycling is so crap at
> containing the massively increased media attention. I say, ditch the IOC
> and its WADA charter. No cycling at the Olympics is better than this drama.
>
> All I want to see is great duels and honest suffering by simple men on
> simple machines, in beautiful landscapes. Dope doesn't change a thing.
>
> --
> E. Dronkert
In my opinion, there is less doping than 10 years ago. In particular,
take the 1997 Tour de France. One of my biggest impressions from that
race were the leadout by Ullrich and Riis for Zabel on the stage
preceding the first big mountain stage. I can't imagine GC contenders
doing that these days. The other one was the Festina guys toying with
Ullrich on the descents. No one is sure about Ullrich, but all the
Festina riders have admitted they were on EPO that year, and, unlike
current dopers who appear to be doing it on their own, the doping was
organised and they had a real drug culture, that is, taking drugs as a
reward and not just to enhance performance.
-ilan
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 11:40:52
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
|
On Jul 6, 11:24 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> All I want to see is great duels and honest suffering by simple men on
> simple machines, in beautiful landscapes. Dope doesn't change a thing.
Exactly, although Just Bob would need to change "honest" to "real."
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 20:24:09
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
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just bob schreef:
> But I am so pissed about the doping thing last year
It has always been there. It is just that pro cycling is so crap at
containing the massively increased media attention. I say, ditch the IOC
and its WADA charter. No cycling at the Olympics is better than this drama.
All I want to see is great duels and honest suffering by simple men on
simple machines, in beautiful landscapes. Dope doesn't change a thing.
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 10 Jul 2007 21:43:07
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:24:09 +0200, Ewoud Dronkert
<firstname@lastname.net.invalid > wrote:
>All I want to see is great duels and honest suffering by simple men on
>simple machines, in beautiful landscapes. Dope doesn't change a thing.
Wow! that's perfect, it's like something Ben Franklin would've said.
Ron
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 21:05:51
From: William R. Mattil
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
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Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>
> All I want to see is great duels and honest suffering by simple men on
> simple machines, in beautiful landscapes. Dope doesn't change a thing.
>
>
Simple, direct and right on the money.
Bill
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 11:11:11
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: The doping stuff makes it hard to be a fan
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just bob wrote:
> I'm sure few of you give a hoot but I wanted to say I'm so pissed I'm
> considering not watching the tdf this year.
I've watched Le Tour and other bike races since 1980.
Boycott all professional sports, especially Le Tour!
Le Petite Dejeuner au Tour de Farce:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132
Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org
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