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Main
Date: 08 Apr 2007 10:52:47
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: The real reason Hoste lost
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Dumbasses -
In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
line at the moment. Lotta variables.
Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/fs005
It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
acceleration petered out at the end.
Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
before going. He'll never forget this one.
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 06:08:54
From: Jeff Jones
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 10, 9:37 am, Steve McGinty <steve_dot_mcgi...@hotmail.co.uk >
wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2007 00:06:09 -0700, "Kurgan Gringioni"
>
>
>
> <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 9, 11:31 pm, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 9 apr, 23:51, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> >> > > > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> >> > > No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
>
> >> > Jackass -
>
> >> > No he didn't.
>
> >> > From:http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
>
> >> Asswipe -
>
> >> Yes he did. Watch the footage instead of reading reports. I can
> >> easily send you a frozen image that prooves it all.
>
> >Dumbass -
>
> >I should believe you instead of them?
>
> >Hahahaha!
>
> >BTW, going from 200m in an uphill is even bigger tactical miscue.
>
> >thanks,
>
> >K. Gringioni.
>
> Work it out from here.
>
> http://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/mcplayervideo_vid38376.shtml
>
> Ballan was controlling it all the way - another 50m and he would have
> led it out and Hoste would not have got round him. Excellent ride by
> Ballan all the way in from the Muur.
Hmm, it does look closer to 200 than 150. Oh well. It wasn't easy to
tell on the day. Especially from where I was sitting :-)
Jeff
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 03:32:24
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
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On 10 apr, 09:06, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 9, 11:31 pm, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9 apr, 23:51, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> > > > > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> > > > No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
>
> > > Jackass -
>
> > > No he didn't.
>
> > > From:http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
>
> > Asswipe -
>
> > Yes he did. Watch the footage instead of reading reports. I can
> > easily send you a frozen image that prooves it all.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> I should believe you instead of them?
ofcourse. I have it on tape.
> Hahahaha!
>
> BTW, going from 200m in an uphill is even bigger tactical miscue.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
I completely agree on this tactical miscue.
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 00:06:09
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 9, 11:31 pm, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 9 apr, 23:51, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> > > > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> > > No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
>
> > Jackass -
>
> > No he didn't.
>
> > From:http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
>
> Asswipe -
>
> Yes he did. Watch the footage instead of reading reports. I can
> easily send you a frozen image that prooves it all.
Dumbass -
I should believe you instead of them?
Hahahaha!
BTW, going from 200m in an uphill is even bigger tactical miscue.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 08:37:10
From: Steve McGinty
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On 10 Apr 2007 00:06:09 -0700, "Kurgan Gringioni"
<kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote:
>On Apr 9, 11:31 pm, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9 apr, 23:51, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
>> > > > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>>
>> > > No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
>>
>> > Jackass -
>>
>> > No he didn't.
>>
>> > From:http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
>>
>> Asswipe -
>>
>> Yes he did. Watch the footage instead of reading reports. I can
>> easily send you a frozen image that prooves it all.
>
>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>
>I should believe you instead of them?
>
>Hahahaha!
>
>BTW, going from 200m in an uphill is even bigger tactical miscue.
>
>
>thanks,
>
>K. Gringioni.
Work it out from here.
http://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/mcplayervideo_vid38376.shtml
Ballan was controlling it all the way - another 50m and he would have
led it out and Hoste would not have got round him. Excellent ride by
Ballan all the way in from the Muur.
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 06:17:10
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
"Steve McGinty" <steve_dot_mcginty@hotmail.co.uk > wrote in message
news:j0jm13t57ub9erq9bbjvuq85n1hc6hffo5@4ax.com...
>
> Work it out from here.
>
> http://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/mcplayervideo_vid38376.shtml
>
"Sorry but this video is not available from your country."
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 16:03:37
From: Phil Holman
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net > wrote in message
news:lnKSh.418745$Ju2.193861@newsfe16.lga...
>
> "Steve McGinty" <steve_dot_mcginty@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:j0jm13t57ub9erq9bbjvuq85n1hc6hffo5@4ax.com...
>>
>> Work it out from here.
>>
>> http://www.eurosport.co.uk/cycling/mcplayervideo_vid38376.shtml
>>
>
> "Sorry but this video is not available from your country."
Click on full screen to see the video.
Phil H
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 23:31:12
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On 9 apr, 23:51, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> > > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> > No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
>
> Jackass -
>
> No he didn't.
>
> From:http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
>
Asswipe -
Yes he did. Watch the footage instead of reading reports. I can
easily send you a frozen image that prooves it all.
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 14:51:09
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
Jackass -
No he didn't.
From:
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
Alessandro Ballan (Lampre) pulled the last ounces of strength out of
his tired legs to come by Leif Hoste (Predictor-Lotto) in the closing
metres to win the Tour of Flanders. The Italian looked like he was
heading for another second place with Hoste glued to his wheel for the
final kilometre and a half. But when Hoste powered past with 150m to
go, Ballan managed to get behind the Belgian. Incredibly, he had
enough to go again in the last 20m to win by a wheel from the
disappointed Hoste.
<snip ><end>
From:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/rvv07/?id=results
The duo went full-gas and fairly traded pulls over the final 16
kilometres from the Muur. Ballan was forced to lead over the final
kilometre, where the two went increasing slower while the chase closed
in at only a few seconds. At 150 metres, Hoste opened up his sprint on
Ballan's left, thinking he had enough to hold it to the line. But the
1.90m tall rider that usually leads out for Daniele Bennati kept on
his rival's wheel, finally coming around in the ten metres to steal
glory.
<snip ><end>
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Date: 10 Apr 2007 19:07:56
From: diego
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> On Apr 9, 6:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
>>> in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>> No he didn't. He went from more than 200m.
>
>
>
> Jackass -
>
> No he didn't.
>
> From:
> http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2745
>
> Alessandro Ballan (Lampre) pulled the last ounces of strength out of
> his tired legs to come by Leif Hoste (Predictor-Lotto) in the closing
> metres to win the Tour of Flanders. The Italian looked like he was
> heading for another second place with Hoste glued to his wheel for the
> final kilometre and a half. But when Hoste powered past with 150m to
> go, Ballan managed to get behind the Belgian. Incredibly, he had
> enough to go again in the last 20m to win by a wheel from the
> disappointed Hoste.
>
> <snip><end>
>
> From:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/rvv07/?id=results
>
> The duo went full-gas and fairly traded pulls over the final 16
> kilometres from the Muur. Ballan was forced to lead over the final
> kilometre, where the two went increasing slower while the chase closed
> in at only a few seconds. At 150 metres, Hoste opened up his sprint on
> Ballan's left, thinking he had enough to hold it to the line. But the
> 1.90m tall rider that usually leads out for Daniele Bennati kept on
> his rival's wheel, finally coming around in the ten metres to steal
> glory.
>
> <snip><end>
>
Dear dumbasseroni - You lead with Dumbass and Jackass and provide the
above as your backing?
20 meters Tip - If Ballan crashed with 50 to go Hoste may have won,
everything else is but errant jizz in your quest for RBR love.
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 11:45:38
From: Andre
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 9, 12:24 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> On Apr 9, 8:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ballan chose a much bigger gear
> > than Hoste. That's why Hoste's acceleration made Ballan lose an
> > entire bike length. With the slightly uphill finish, it would have
> > been impossible for Ballan to get his gear going and to close that
> > gap.
> > Hoste chose the right gear, did a very explosive sprint but too early.
>
> Speaking of big gears, it looked from the brief coverage on Versus
> (USA TV) that Boonen might have been somewhat optimistic* as to gear
> choice on the Mur. He just about stopped around the time Ballan went
> around.
>
> *Or very, by two or three teeth. Ouch, painful to watch. Was there an
> equipment (derailleur) problem? --D-y
Kevin Hulsmans was chasing down the early breakaway for a long time,
helped by Johan Van Summeren (Predictor-Lotto), so he couldn't play a
role in the finale, neither. "Yes, we were defeated," he said. "It was
a really long day in the end. Tom Boonen came to a fall quite early in
the race and I assisted him the whole day. Tom's wrist was hurting and
he couldn't put pressure on it. Of course, the disappointment is great
- we would have liked to party here!"
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 09:24:09
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 9, 8:53 am, "Kenny" <gelei2...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Ballan chose a much bigger gear
> than Hoste. That's why Hoste's acceleration made Ballan lose an
> entire bike length. With the slightly uphill finish, it would have
> been impossible for Ballan to get his gear going and to close that
> gap.
> Hoste chose the right gear, did a very explosive sprint but too early.
Speaking of big gears, it looked from the brief coverage on Versus
(USA TV) that Boonen might have been somewhat optimistic* as to gear
choice on the Mur. He just about stopped around the time Ballan went
around.
*Or very, by two or three teeth. Ouch, painful to watch. Was there an
equipment (derailleur) problem? --D-y
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 06:53:16
From: Kenny
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On 8 apr, 19:52, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Dumbasses -
>
> In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
> know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
> accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
> because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
> something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
> accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
> into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
>
> Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
> is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
> upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
> fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
> line at the moment. Lotta variables.
>
> Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
No he didn't. He went from more than 200m. If he waited until 150m,
there was no way Ballan could return. Ballan chose a much bigger gear
than Hoste. That's why Hoste's acceleration made Ballan lose an
entire bike length. With the slightly uphill finish, it would have
been impossible for Ballan to get his gear going and to close that
gap.
Hoste chose the right gear, did a very explosive sprint but too early.
Kenny
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 11:56:36
From: Wayne Pein
Subject: Re: The real reason Ballan won
|
Ballan made the move, did more of the work and was stronger in the
break, got sat on for most of the last K, and still one. Perhaps Hoste
would have won with a better timed sprint, but he didn't, and the best
man won.
Wayne
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 20:27:33
From: Andre
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 8, 9:45 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On 8 Apr 2007 18:30:19 -0700, "amit.gh...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 8, 1:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Dumbasses -
>
> >dumbass,
>
> >the reason hoste lost was because he is a bitch. last year he screwed
> >over his team to work for boonen and used his second place to leverage
> >a higher paying job on his old team. the year before he sat on
> >wesemann until wesemann squeezed his balls.
>
> >he sat on ballan, and of course i don't think you should pull through
> >because someone wants you too, his bitchmade body language makes me
> >want to punch him in the head. *
>
> >he's not a winner, which is why he can be strong and still lose.
>
> >yeah, i'm glad ballan won.
>
> >*(also he may have sprinted for the wrong line)
>
> Ballan was stronger, and maybe Hoste went too early.
>
> I like this quote from Hoste's teammate Bj=F6rn Leukemans
> (inhttp://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=3Dnews/2007/apr07/apr09news)
>
> "Hoste is like that; if he knows that he's faster, then he thinks he's
> certain of the win"
>
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hoste started his sprint 25 meters too early.
Andre
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 18:30:19
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 8, 1:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Dumbasses -
dumbass,
the reason hoste lost was because he is a bitch. last year he screwed
over his team to work for boonen and used his second place to leverage
a higher paying job on his old team. the year before he sat on
wesemann until wesemann squeezed his balls.
he sat on ballan, and of course i don't think you should pull through
because someone wants you too, his bitchmade body language makes me
want to punch him in the head. *
he's not a winner, which is why he can be strong and still lose.
yeah, i'm glad ballan won.
*(also he may have sprinted for the wrong line)
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 21:45:40
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On 8 Apr 2007 18:30:19 -0700, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com"
<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote:
>On Apr 8, 1:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Dumbasses -
>
>dumbass,
>
>the reason hoste lost was because he is a bitch. last year he screwed
>over his team to work for boonen and used his second place to leverage
>a higher paying job on his old team. the year before he sat on
>wesemann until wesemann squeezed his balls.
>
>he sat on ballan, and of course i don't think you should pull through
>because someone wants you too, his bitchmade body language makes me
>want to punch him in the head. *
>
>he's not a winner, which is why he can be strong and still lose.
>
>yeah, i'm glad ballan won.
>
>*(also he may have sprinted for the wrong line)
Ballan was stronger, and maybe Hoste went too early.
I like this quote from Hoste's teammate Björn Leukemans
(in http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/apr07/apr09news)
"Hoste is like that; if he knows that he's faster, then he thinks he's
certain of the win"
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 14:15:43
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
On Apr 8, 12:31 pm, "Caroline" <notr...@askforone.com > wrote:
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1176054767.597916.183480@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dumbasses -
>
> > In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
> > know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
> > accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
> > because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
> > something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
> > accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
> > into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
>
> > Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
> > is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
> > upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
> > fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
> > line at the moment. Lotta variables.
>
> > Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> > in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/phot...
>
> > It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
> > That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
> > flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
> > it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
> > against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
> > acceleration petered out at the end.
>
> > Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
> > it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
> > that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
> > move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
> > before going. He'll never forget this one.
>
> Maybe. But there's also the factor that when two riders are out alone that
> far for a long final sprint, one of them always ends up doing a lead out for
> the other. That's my guess from the photo. The only other option is doing
> a track stand and letting the pack pass you up.
Dumbass -
In match sprinting someone usually also leads out. As for the closing
pack - yes, that's yet another variable to add into the equation.
Another of many things that weren't mentioned is that in road
sprinting the lead rider doesn't have a turn where he/she can float.
There's also no banking to accelerate down for the follow rider. But,
despite the hundreds of differences that can be pointed out, the basic
underlying principles are the same.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| | |
Date: 08 Apr 2007 22:49:31
From: Steve
Subject: Re: The REAL real reason Hoste lost
|
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> In match sprinting someone usually also leads out. As for the closing
> pack - yes, that's yet another variable to add into the equation.
>
> Another of many things that weren't mentioned is that in road
> sprinting the lead rider doesn't have a turn where he/she can float.
> There's also no banking to accelerate down for the follow rider. But,
> despite the hundreds of differences that can be pointed out, the basic
> underlying principles are the same.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
>
The real reason that he lost is because the other rider reached the line
first. He was outsprinted. There were two riders and one first place. I
suffered from that too often, back-in-my-USCF-day.
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 13:56:19
From: Richard Cheese
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
|
Did you attend the University of I Know Everything About Bike Rides That
Take 6 Hours and 10 Minute?
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176054767.597916.183480@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Dumbasses -
>
> In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
> know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
> accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
> because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
> something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
> accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
> into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
>
> Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
> is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
> upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
> fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
> line at the moment. Lotta variables.
>
> Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/fs005
>
> It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
> That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
> flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
> it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
> against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
> acceleration petered out at the end.
>
> Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
> it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
> that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
> move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
> before going. He'll never forget this one.
>
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 13:42:50
From: Jeff Jones
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
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On Apr 8, 8:45 pm, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com > wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/rvv05/index.php?id=raced...
>
> Photo of previous race, shows the LH barriers without follow cars in
> the way. Definitely a hump-- not a climb but a nice little uphill (one
> might think) placed in the course for just this "confounding" effect
> on the outcome of finishes.
>
It's definitely uphill (ridden it a few times) and I would imagine
it's fairly easy to misjudge. Hoste should have known better, having
twice finished second in a sprint there prior to today. Or maybe that
proves that he doesn't know better :-)
Nice finish though - I enjoyed that.
Jeff
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Date: 09 Apr 2007 09:27:53
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
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Jeff Jones wrote:
> It's definitely uphill (ridden it a few times) and I would imagine
> it's fairly easy to misjudge. Hoste should have known better, having
> twice finished second in a sprint there prior to today.
He's practising so he can become the next Zabel.
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 12:45:04
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
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On Apr 8, 12:52 pm, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Dumbasses -
>
> In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
> know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
> accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
> because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
> something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
> accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
> into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
>
> Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
> is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
> upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
> fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
> line at the moment. Lotta variables.
>
> Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/phot...
>
> It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
> That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
> flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
> it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
> against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
> acceleration petered out at the end.
>
> Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
> it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
> that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
> move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
> before going. He'll never forget this one.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/rvv05/index.php?id=raceday/32
Photo of previous race, shows the LH barriers without follow cars in
the way. Definitely a hump-- not a climb but a nice little uphill (one
might think) placed in the course for just this "confounding" effect
on the outcome of finishes.
>From photos, very close. Film at 6:00 (Versus). --D-y
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 19:31:23
From: Caroline
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
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"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176054767.597916.183480@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Dumbasses -
>
> In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
> know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
> accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
> because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
> something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
> accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
> into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
>
> Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
> is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
> upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
> fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
> line at the moment. Lotta variables.
>
> Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/fs005
>
> It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
> That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
> flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
> it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
> against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
> acceleration petered out at the end.
>
> Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
> it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
> that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
> move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
> before going. He'll never forget this one.
>
Maybe. But there's also the factor that when two riders are out alone that
far for a long final sprint, one of them always ends up doing a lead out for
the other. That's my guess from the photo. The only other option is doing
a track stand and letting the pack pass you up.
Caroline
ex-USCF race official
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Date: 08 Apr 2007 14:07:01
From: psycholist
Subject: Re: The real reason Hoste lost
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Good analysis. Thanks for the insight!
--
Bob C.
"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1176054767.597916.183480@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Dumbasses -
>
> In a 2 up sprint, the basic principle is simple: go from where you
> know you can accelerate all the way to the line. If you're still
> accelerating in the last meters, it's difficult to come around you
> because the guy behind has to match your acceleration and put
> something on top of it. By contrast, if the lead rider isn't
> accelerating anymore, then all the rear rider has to do is accelerate
> into the slipstream, then come out into the wind and go past.
>
> Although the basic principle of accelerating all the way to the line
> is simple, calculating when to go is far more complicated. It depends
> upon the abilities of the riders in question, how tired they are, how
> fast they are going at the moment vs. how far away they are from the
> line at the moment. Lotta variables.
>
> Hoste went from 150 meters today. Normally that's not too far out. Fly
> in the ointment though. Look at this photo:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/fs005
>
> It appears as if the entire finishing straight is slightly uphill.
> That affects the calculations very significantly. If the finish were
> flat, the 150 meters would have been fine for Hoste. But in an uphill,
> it's much more difficult to maintain acceleration with gravity working
> against you. Ballan got protection in the slipstream and Hoste's
> acceleration petered out at the end.
>
> Track racers understand how to ride that sort of finish very well -
> it's Match Sprinting 101. Roadies not so much - they don't end up in
> that situation so often and usually one of them makes a really dumb
> move. Hoste's gotta be bummed. He should've waited another 20 meters
> before going. He'll never forget this one.
>
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