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Date: 29 Jan 2007 18:37:50
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Wellens is a bitch
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan30news
Wellens to sue Worlds organisers
I might be going off without knowing the whole story since I haven't
seen the footage of the Wellens crash but I don't see how he has a
case if no one was negligent, and I should not be possible given that
this was the World Championship and an army of experienced officials
were on hand to inspect the setup. The organizer does have liability
insurance, but these kinds of suits create a headache for organizers
everywhere.
As an organizer I am always paranoid that some mishap or error by some
staff (like the moto driver in this case) is going to bite me in the
ass. I even know a few people have retired from organizing or
officiating because of their concerns about liability.
Also, I've noticed that motos have become common in cross in the last
year or so and this may not be a good thing. I have a personal peeve
about race vehicles acting unsafely, you see it at all levels. I try
to brief all the drivers at my races, but you can only prepare your
people so much. When people act they are on their own and you hope
they will do the right thing.
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 09:08:28
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:
> Also, I've noticed that motos have become common in cross in the last
> year or so and this may not be a good thing. I have a personal peeve
> about race vehicles acting unsafely, you see it at all levels.
Maybe they should have used a Hummer, then nobody would be able to sue.
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Date: 29 Jan 2007 22:00:10
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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> IMHO, the yellow vested shals or police really shouldn't be between
> the camera and the course, but never mind why, none of them had time to
> re-position the barrier once it gets spun by the moto.
actually i think the moto shooting the footage we're seeing spins the
barrier into wellens, that's why the yellow vests haven't reacted yet.
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 06:25:14
From: Mike G
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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In article <1170136810.201026.16760@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
"amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote:
> > IMHO, the yellow vested shals or police really shouldn't be between
> > the camera and the course, but never mind why, none of them had time to
> > re-position the barrier once it gets spun by the moto.
>
> actually i think the moto shooting the footage we're seeing spins the
> barrier into wellens, that's why the yellow vests haven't reacted yet.
Obviously the moto moves the barrier.
Even if the shal was in the right place, there wasn't enough time to
reposition the barrier before Wellens hits it.
Next time, hopefully they will put a few gallons of water in them to
hold them in place.
Mike G.
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Date: 29 Jan 2007 20:48:06
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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On Jan 29, 11:33 pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org"
<b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
> Maybe there are too many motos on cross courses, but
> I'd guess Wellens has benefited indirectly from the TV money
> the TV moto brings.
dumbass,
i hadn't seen the incident until dan posted the youtube link, so i
wasn't sure if wellens had tangled with a moto, but it seems the moto
was long gone, but the barrier had not been moved back after being
pushed into the course.
i dunno what the yellow vested dudes are, but they didn't seem to be
signalling the riders or trying to move the barrier back into place.
the obstacle was on the outside of the turn, so it should've been
possible to direct the riders around it.
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Date: 29 Jan 2007 20:33:30
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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On Jan 29, 7:45 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m >
wrote:
> amit.gh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan30news
>
> > Wellens to sue Worlds organisers
>
> > I might be going off without knowing the whole story since I haven't
> > seen the footage of the Wellens crash
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyLjv7zTis
Thanks, Dan.
> > but I don't see how he has a
> > case if no one was negligent,
>
> It's clear this sort of thing shouldn't be happening.
>
> I was at a race once which involved an out-and-back along a 2-lane road.
> An official car drove into the opposite lane to pass our pack, only to
> encounter a pack heading the opposite direction. There was chaos, but
> somehow nobody was hurt. This sort of thing sort of transcends
> reasonable expectation of risk -- it was a totally brain-dead maneuver
> with foreseeable consequence.
That's negligence with the possibility of major injury, and a
moving violation (unsafe passing) - not that I'd suggest ticketing
officials or you'd never get anyone to officiate. The Wellens
crash was an accident, though. Plastic bags shouldn't blow
into derailleurs and riders in the lead shouldn't crash on
unswept corners, but suing is not an appropriate response.
Lose and suck it up.
Maybe there are too many motos on cross courses, but
I'd guess Wellens has benefited indirectly from the TV money
the TV moto brings.
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 05:32:03
From: Mike G
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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In article <1170131610.522265.191390@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com >,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote:
> On Jan 29, 7:45 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
> > amit.gh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan30news
> >
> > > Wellens to sue Worlds organisers
> >
> > > I might be going off without knowing the whole story since I haven't
> > > seen the footage of the Wellens crash
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyLjv7zTis
>
> Thanks, Dan.
Yup. Thanks Dan for that.
The area to the right in the video appears to be a parallel lane the
camera moto travels in, separated from the race course by the white and
red plastic traffic barriers.
No doubt most of us have seen this setup used at MTB and TRI events with
the camera on the back of a four-wheel ATV. It jumps up to speed to
shoot the leaders as they come alongside, and it can be backed up
quickly in the protected chute to reset the shot for other riders or the
leaders on the next lap.
IMHO, the yellow vested shals or police really shouldn't be between
the camera and the course, but never mind why, none of them had time to
re-position the barrier once it gets spun by the moto.
The barrier should have some sand or water in it to keep it from moving.
From what we see in the video, it spins like is has nothing in it.
Sounds like something the organizer would be responsible for.
Mike G.
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Date: 30 Jan 2007 02:45:39
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: Wellens is a bitch
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amit.ghosh@gmail.com wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jan07/jan30news
>
> Wellens to sue Worlds organisers
>
> I might be going off without knowing the whole story since I haven't
> seen the footage of the Wellens crash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyLjv7zTis
> but I don't see how he has a
> case if no one was negligent, and I should not be possible given that
> this was the World Championship and an army of experienced officials
> were on hand to inspect the setup. The organizer does have liability
> insurance, but these kinds of suits create a headache for organizers
> everywhere.
>
It's clear this sort of thing shouldn't be happening.
I was at a race once which involved an out-and-back along a 2-lane road.
An official car drove into the opposite lane to pass our pack, only to
encounter a pack heading the opposite direction. There was chaos, but
somehow nobody was hurt. This sort of thing sort of transcends
reasonable expectation of risk -- it was a totally brain-dead maneuver
with foreseeable consequence.
> As an organizer I am always paranoid that some mishap or error by some
> staff (like the moto driver in this case) is going to bite me in the
> ass. I even know a few people have retired from organizing or
> officiating because of their concerns about liability.
>
> Also, I've noticed that motos have become common in cross in the last
> year or so and this may not be a good thing. I have a personal peeve
> about race vehicles acting unsafely, you see it at all levels. I try
> to brief all the drivers at my races, but you can only prepare your
> people so much. When people act they are on their own and you hope
> they will do the right thing.
>
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