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Main
Date: 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36
From: Breaking News
Subject: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he
on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
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Date: 29 Jul 2007 13:30:26
From: Marian
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Jul 29, 8:52 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> Shane Stanley <sstan...@myriad-com.nospam.com.au> wrote:
> > In article <mo5sn4-tha....@wm.reippuert.dk>,
> > Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > > One could say the same thing about Australian riders from the OL 2000
> > > program, they inherited the trainers and doctors from the DDR program.
> > And you're going to list them for us, aren't you. How about you start
> > with the doctors...
>
> google the DDR born "Heiko Salzwede", he was just one of many ex DDR
> coaches and doctors hired by the Australians between 1992 and 2000.
> Others went to China.
>
> ex DDR track coach.
> ex A.I.S an Australian National head coach.
> currently danish track coach (ups, doesn't look good but DCU director
> Jesper Worre appeantly think he has cleaned up his act)
>
> <http://www.radsport-aktiv.de/sport/sportnews_34938.htm>
Hey! I met him at the TdQL. Really nice guy. I taught him bad words
in Chinese.
-M
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Date: 29 Jul 2007 19:17:24
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Marian wrote:
> Hey! I met him at the TdQL. Really nice guy. I taught him bad words
> in Chinese.
Why don't the podium girls ever teach me any bad words in French ?
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Date: 29 Jul 2007 11:48:52
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On 07/29/2007 11:17 AM, in article
46accc19$0$8644$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com, "Donald Munro"
<fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Marian wrote:
>> Hey! I met him at the TdQL. Really nice guy. I taught him bad words
>> in Chinese.
>
> Why don't the podium girls ever teach me any bad words in French ?
Because you never stand on the podium?
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 16:25:42
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Jul 27, 3:54 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com >
wrote:
> Hee, hee
>
> They gave KOM points in the Prologue a few years back
>
> Some Wanker rode his Road Bike, sprinted up the minuscule climb and
> grabbed Spotted Dick's fave Jersey
>
> Who and when was it anyone?
>
> The Den Bosch start comes to mind but I'm not sure
It was Marcel Wust, 2000 at Futuroscope.
http://www.frankieandreu.com/diaries/diary00-07a.html
I kind of forgot how funny those Frankie.com diaries were:
"Serguei Ivanov (Farm Frites) won the Russian National
Championships and along with the title he also received a
car. He won a Lada, what else, that gets 20 km's/liter.
I think that equal out to something like 48 miles/gallon.
Second place was a refrigerator for Tonkov and third place
was a television. The remaining top ten got CD players."
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:38:12
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > writes:
> On Jul 27, 3:54 am, Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrock...@azurservers.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hee, hee
>>
>> They gave KOM points in the Prologue a few years back
>>
>> Some Wanker rode his Road Bike, sprinted up the minuscule climb and
>> grabbed Spotted Dick's fave Jersey
>>
>> Who and when was it anyone?
>>
>> The Den Bosch start comes to mind but I'm not sure
>
> It was Marcel Wust, 2000 at Futuroscope.
>
> http://www.frankieandreu.com/diaries/diary00-07a.html
A very good read
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 05:08:08
From: Dumbass
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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On Jul 27, 5:59 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <mornn4-lg5....@wm.reippuert.dk>, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
>
> ('s...@reippuert.dk') wrote:
> > There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
> > better, safer, cheaper and easier.
>
> That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
> Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO. Was
> EPO actually banned in 1996?
>
> I means, suppose Joe Soap wins the tour in 2007 eating bananas, and in 2010
> the UCI puts banana on the banned substances list, does this make Joe Soap
> a criminal who should hand his yellow jersey back?
>
> --
> si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; I put the 'sexy' in 'dyslexia'
It was banned before that. But they need a practical blood test to
enforce a ban or a search that turns up evidence. Things can be
banned when there is no effective test.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 04:18:26
From:
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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On Jul 27, 5:59 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <mornn4-lg5....@wm.reippuert.dk>, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
>
> ('s...@reippuert.dk') wrote:
> > There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
> > better, safer, cheaper and easier.
>
> That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
> Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO. Was
> EPO actually banned in 1996?
>
> I means, suppose Joe Soap wins the tour in 2007 eating bananas, and in 2010
> the UCI puts banana on the banned substances list, does this make Joe Soap
> a criminal who should hand his yellow jersey back?
>
> --
> si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; I put the 'sexy' in 'dyslexia'
its not that EPO in particular is banned. To allow the capture and
banning of substances and procedures yet to be discovered by testers,
the rules relate to things you can't do or add to blood. You can't
manipulate blood.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 17:43:35
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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in message <1185535106.421506.134820@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
anton2468@aol.com (' anton2468@aol.com') wrote:
> On Jul 27, 5:59 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>> in message <mornn4-lg5....@wm.reippuert.dk>, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
>>
>> ('s...@reippuert.dk') wrote:
>> > There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
>> > better, safer, cheaper and easier.
>>
>> That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
>> Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO.
>> Was EPO actually banned in 1996?
>>
>> I means, suppose Joe Soap wins the tour in 2007 eating bananas, and in
>> 2010 the UCI puts banana on the banned substances list, does this make
>> Joe Soap a criminal who should hand his yellow jersey back?
>
> its not that EPO in particular is banned. To allow the capture and
> banning of substances and procedures yet to be discovered by testers,
> the rules relate to things you can't do or add to blood. You can't
> manipulate blood.
Don't be a complete ass. Eating a banana - or porridge or croissants or
whatever else you choose as cycling fuel - alters the biochemistry of your
blood. EPO alters the biochemistry of your blood. It may have been
explicitly banned, and Morten says it was. But if they banned 'anything
that manipulates blood', the riders would not be allowed to eat (or
breathe, for that matter).
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Morning had broken, and I found when I looked that we had run out
of copper roove nails.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 11:10:54
From:
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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On Jul 27, 11:59 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <mornn4-lg5....@wm.reippuert.dk>, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
>
> ('s...@reippuert.dk') wrote:
> > There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
> > better, safer, cheaper and easier.
>
> That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
> Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO. Was
> EPO actually banned in 1996?
>
> I means, suppose Joe Soap wins the tour in 2007 eating bananas, and in 2010
> the UCI puts banana on the banned substances list, does this make Joe Soap
> a criminal who should hand his yellow jersey back?
>
> --
> si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; I put the 'sexy' in 'dyslexia'
I have a small problem with your example. Bananas are readily
available to everyone, bought in the supermarket. Epo was a secret,
bought on the black-market (You cant walk to a pharmacy and order a
few doses of Epo)
Now if bananas were a supplement, developed by a Chemist, specifically
designed to boost performance, used in secret... well then I am not
sure how to answer.
In the end I don't blame anyone, not even Riis. His TdF win was
momentous, the end of Big Mig. Yeah, Riis doped big time, but I don't
believe the others were clean. Cycling is a dirty sport, but I love
it.
Hate rasmussen? I pity him and am surprised he didn't manage to
prepare a coherent story.. he seems a bit of an idiot. He took the
juice and was in Italy... so have a good story instead of the fumbling
he is showing now.
Who do I don't like? Millar and the Holier than thou French peloton.
Ever looked at Moreau and how his body changed over the years? Clean?
I have a bridge to sell you. But blame them for being wankers? No...
they are caught in the same web as everyone else.
And this TdF gave me the most exciting spectacle I saw in years... The
suckage of Vino and Rasmussen don't take that away. Only thing is that
I regret not to see Rasmussen and Contador duke it out in the TT.
Would be a fair fight considering the history of Contador and his
environment.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:31:56
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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teaser4ever@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a small problem with your example. Bananas are readily
> available to everyone, bought in the supermarket. Epo was a secret,
> bought on the black-market (You cant walk to a pharmacy and order a
> few doses of Epo)
Dansish televison diclosed that it was no problem whatsover in
either france, spain, germany or belgium.
Most farmecist refused to sell it without a perscriptions but had no
problems redirecting the journalist to willing farmacist :-)
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 16:34:30
From: Krusty
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:10:54 -0000, teaser4ever@gmail.com wrote:
> (You cant walk to a pharmacy and order a
>few doses of Epo)
Ever been to Tijuana?
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:53:40
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
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teaser4ever@gmail.com wrote:
>> (You cant walk to a pharmacy and order a
>>few doses of Epo)
Krusty wrote:
> Ever been to Tijuana?
That's in New Italy ?
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:29:20
From:
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Jul 27, 10:21 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk >
wrote:
> Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:44:38 +0200, Morten Reippuert
> > Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > >> And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
> > >> Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
> > >> huge clue.
>
> > >Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?
> > Well, last time I checked they weren't kicked off their national teams
> > then kicked off their pro team and out of the tour for lying about
> > their whereabouts and missing out of season dope tests, so I'll give
> > them the benefit of the doubt.
>
> Please respond to why Contador, Cobo and Garate mannaged to ride
> faster than Miller on a 55km TT! You yourself used the Millar argument.
>
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
I actually can think of several reasons, all of wich have played parts
in the past. Mind that Rasmussen 11th place has been eclipsed by
climbers before... long before. TTing in a GT isn't a Worlds TT
Reasons:
1. Millar had a bad day
2. Millar noticed along the way that this wasn't his day and decides
to put a brake on it (rainy, so no risks)
3. The GC contender Rasmussen/Contador digested the mountains well, so
relatively they have the most reserves. Going all-out (risks e.a.)
they have a good TT.
People who imply that a climber who compete in a Grand Tour TT is a
new thing simply are wrong. Similar things have occured many times
before. Motivation and digesting previous stages are a big part of why
they do comparatively well.
Same course on a Worlds and we have a completely different outcome...
but once again I say: nothing new under the sun.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 12:14:21
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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in message <1185528560.275542.181150@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
teaser4ever@gmail.com (' teaser4ever@gmail.com') wrote:
> On Jul 27, 10:21 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk>
> wrote:
>> Please respond to why Contador, Cobo and Garate mannaged to ride
>> faster than Miller on a 55km TT! You yourself used the Millar argument.
>
> I actually can think of several reasons, all of wich have played parts
> in the past. Mind that Rasmussen 11th place has been eclipsed by
> climbers before... long before. TTing in a GT isn't a Worlds TT
>
> Reasons:
>
> 1. Millar had a bad day
> 2. Millar noticed along the way that this wasn't his day and decides
> to put a brake on it (rainy, so no risks)
Millar rode through the wettest part of the day, and said after his
ride 'it's very dangerous out there'. He said he would advise Iban Mayo
to 'put road tyres on'. So I think it's reasonable to assume that Millar's
ride was weather- or safety- limited.
> People who imply that a climber who compete in a Grand Tour TT is a
> new thing simply are wrong. Similar things have occured many times
> before. Motivation and digesting previous stages are a big part of why
> they do comparatively well.
Exactly.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
'there are no solutions, only precipitates'
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 13:45:24
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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teaser4ever@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 27, 10:21 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk>
> wrote:
> > Doug Taylor <dtay...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:44:38 +0200, Morten Reippuert
> > > Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > > >> And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
> > > >> Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
> > > >> huge clue.
> >
> > > >Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?
> > > Well, last time I checked they weren't kicked off their national teams
> > > then kicked off their pro team and out of the tour for lying about
> > > their whereabouts and missing out of season dope tests, so I'll give
> > > them the benefit of the doubt.
> >
> > Please respond to why Contador, Cobo and Garate mannaged to ride
> > faster than Miller on a 55km TT! You yourself used the Millar argument.
> I actually can think of several reasons, all of wich have played parts
> in the past. Mind that Rasmussen 11th place has been eclipsed by
> climbers before... long before. TTing in a GT isn't a Worlds TT
> Reasons:
I concour with your reasons. However i'd like to Doug Taylor apply his
Millar argument to the TT performance of Cobo, Contador and Garate. It
it applys to Rasmussens TT performance it must apply to the
performance of Contador, Cobo and Garate as well.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:13:04
From:
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Jul 26, 1:42 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> On Jul 26, 10:00 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> > hours like a steam lokomotive.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
> never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
> everything but the discipline.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
including the epo you moron
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 08:38:31
From:
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Now I all belive they always juiced and still juice.... but some myths
need to be busted.
On Jul 27, 2:37 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
> > Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > >Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> > >Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> > >hours like a steam lokomotive.
> > Suddenly?
>
> oh yes, tjeck your facts - even Indurain for the first years in his
> cariar Indurain did the grupetto, he started going uphill well about
> the same time EPO hit european cycling.
>
Miguel Indurain was seen as the next big thing from the start of his
career. he was slowly brought under the wings of Delgado, but he was
oracled to win the TdF sooner or later. His palmares was larded with
smaller tours like the tour de L'Avenir. Magazines, press conferences,
Miguel was seen as the man to watch years before his first GT win.
It's absolutely untru to state as a fact that he transformed into a
climber... he was in fact one of the slowest, most prepared careers I
ever saw. And yeah, I think the University of Pamplona helped... but
that doesn't change the fact that he was seen as a contender from the
start.
> Amstrong couldn't climb until the 97 vuelta, even after his weightloss
> he was still pretty big compared to true climbers. Of cource durring
> the 90'es a lot of the bigger guys suddenly leart how to climb like
> rockets.
>
Another Myth. Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault, Lemond, Fignon... they were
all muscular compared to the "climbers of their day". GT's were always
won by the bigger guys, because they digested consecutive Mountain
stages a lot better. Seen over multiple mountain stages Hinault
actually gained time on Winnen and Breu. It was extremely rare to have
a climber doing well in multiple stages.
> Hincapee, thats evident.
>
He looks like Steven Rooks who was one of the best climbers of his
day. I see nothing weird there.
> Ulrich huge compared to the pure climbers.
>
Yeah, like almost every TdF winner... Small guys winning the TdF are a
rarity.
> Vinokrov. Look at the size of his legs, he has the stature of a
> sprinter.
>
He looks like Hinault and Lemond (Hinault won Mass-Sprints, Lemond won
most group sprints). Nothing to see here what should come as a
surprise.
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
About climbers doing well in TTs: 1983 last flat TT
1 Fignon 2 Arroyo 3 Van Impe 5 Winnen
When motivated climbers have put out good TT's before. Also, TTing in
a GT isn't TT ing on a world championship.
The facts actually point to something else... how come that the Fleas
actually manage to hang on in consecutive mountains stages with the
powerful guys??? That and not the other way around, is the odd thing.
Funny thing is that almost noone will look at it like that. Myths.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 23:51:03
From:
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Jul 27, 8:22 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> You can't really model
> performance without an accurate frontal-area
> measurement, but there's more to it than height
> and weight.
Under certain circumstances, you can model frontal-area using
performance--but there's more to it than height and weight.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 06:22:10
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Jul 26, 6:22 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> > > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> > > hours like a steam lokomotive.
> > Heras used to be much worse at TTs, then suddenly he got
> > good, suspiciously good. Contador is still pretty young,
> > so some improvement in TTs is not crazy.
>
> Considering his size and weight it's just as crazy as Rasmussen doing
> a reasonably good TT.
Time trialing isn't only about size. Leipheimer,
for example, is pretty small (5'7") but has always
been a good time trialist. There have always been
big guys that get beat by little guys, in part
because of TT position. Shayana Kadidal pointed
out a few days ago that Rasmussen's back looked
a lot flatter in 2007 than in 2005.
Here's pictures of Leipheimer, Contador, Evans
and Rasmusssen in Albi:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tour07/tour0713/LCTM-TDF07S13-146
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tour07/tour0713/LCTM-TDF07S13-149
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tour07/tour0713/LCTM-TDF07S13-150
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tour07/tour0713/LCTM-TDF07S13-154
Look at how Leipheimer and Contador's chests are
horizontal and backs flattened out. Rasmussen's
position looks pretty good too. I don't have
an equivalent picture of a non TTist, but compare
Iban Mayo in 2006:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tour06/index.php?id=/photos/2006/tour06/tour067/JD_06TDFstg7018
Mayo looks like he's sitting much more upright.
If anything, this picture is taken with the road
tilting down a little bit; correcting for that
makes him more upright. You can't really model
performance without an accurate frontal-area
measurement, but there's more to it than height
and weight.
Ben
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 18:40:38
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Jul 26, 1:42 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com > wrote:
>
> everything but the discipline.
Good name for a band.
R
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Date: 28 Jul 2007 14:12:13
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:40:38 -0700, RicodJour
<ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:
>On Jul 26, 1:42 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> everything but the discipline.
>
>Good name for a band.
EBTG
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:22:13
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
oh golly gee when Prudhomme said Rasmussen was evil.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:01:06
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
datakoll wrote:
> oh golly gee when Prudhomme said Rasmussen was evil.
He must be evil because paddy sez so too. In fact someone better tell Boy
George the axis of evil is expanding like LANCE's waistline.
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 15:53:29
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
In article
<46a9a5c5$0$8630$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com >,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> datakoll wrote:
> > oh golly gee when Prudhomme said Rasmussen was evil.
>
> He must be evil because paddy sez so too. In fact someone better tell Boy
> George the axis of evil is expanding like LANCE's waistline.
Alright, that is enough. People, post some pictures or
stop repeating this. Somebody might get the mistaken
impression that we are obsessed. NTTIAWWT.
--
Michael Press
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:16:23
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Jul 26, 10:00 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk >
wrote:
> Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Basso isn't a climber, he's an allrounder who just learnt the dicipline
> late in his carrer.
> Contador and Herras a both examples of pure climbers with
> extraordinary good TT abilities. Saiz, Brunel and dr.Fuentes did a
> very good job with both of them.
>
> Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> hours like a steam lokomotive.
Heras used to be much worse at TTs, then suddenly he got
good, suspiciously good. Contador is still pretty young,
so some improvement in TTs is not crazy. Indurain and
Hincapie are pretty big; Ullrich moderately so, though
as JFT points out, he was always good. Armstrong and
Vinokourov aren't even that big - they're both 5'10".
I don't think any of these guys are pure as the driven
snow, but I also don't have dopedar - I can't tell they're
doping just by looking at them.
Ben
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 03:22:47
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
bjw@mambo.ucolick.org <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote:
> > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> > hours like a steam lokomotive.
> Heras used to be much worse at TTs, then suddenly he got
> good, suspiciously good. Contador is still pretty young,
> so some improvement in TTs is not crazy.
Considering his size and weight it's just as crazy as Rasmussen doing
a reasonably good TT.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:42:10
From: Kurgan Gringioni
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Jul 26, 10:00 am, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<s...@reippuert.dk >
wrote:
>
> Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> hours like a steam lokomotive.
Dumbass -
Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
everything but the discipline.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:38:54
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com > wrote:
> > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> > hours like a steam lokomotive.
>
> Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
> never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
> everything but the discipline.
You don't think he was juiced from the beginning? He's climbing
abilties in 96 was a surprise to everyone.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:46:39
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:38:54 +0200, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk >
wrote:
>Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
>> > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
>> > hours like a steam lokomotive.
>>
>> Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
>> never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
>> everything but the discipline.
>
>You don't think he was juiced from the beginning? He's climbing
>abilties in 96 was a surprise to everyone.
Ullrich began in the East German system. Questioning his dopage is like
wondering if a 17th century Italian might be Catholic.
Ron
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:59:50
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
RonSonic <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:38:54 +0200, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk>
> wrote:
> >Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> >> > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> >> > hours like a steam lokomotive.
> >>
> >> Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
> >> never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
> >> everything but the discipline.
> >
> >You don't think he was juiced from the beginning? He's climbing
> >abilties in 96 was a surprise to everyone.
> Ullrich began in the East German system. Questioning his dopage is like
> wondering if a 17th century Italian might be Catholic.
One could say the same thing about Australian riders from the OL 2000
program, they inherited the trainers and doctors from the DDR program.
I those years Australian cycling leapfrogged. A lot of those riders
now rides on protour teams.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 22:10:28
From: Shane Stanley
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
In article <mo5sn4-tha.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> One could say the same thing about Australian riders from the OL 2000
> program, they inherited the trainers and doctors from the DDR program.
And you're going to list them for us, aren't you. How about you start
with the doctors...
--
Shane Stanley
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 14:52:47
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Shane Stanley <sstanley@myriad-com.nospam.com.au > wrote:
> In article <mo5sn4-tha.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk>,
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> > One could say the same thing about Australian riders from the OL 2000
> > program, they inherited the trainers and doctors from the DDR program.
> And you're going to list them for us, aren't you. How about you start
> with the doctors...
google the DDR born "Heiko Salzwede", he was just one of many ex DDR
coaches and doctors hired by the Australians between 1992 and 2000.
Others went to China.
ex DDR track coach.
ex A.I.S an Australian National head coach.
currently danish track coach (ups, doesn't look good but DCU director
Jesper Worre appeantly think he has cleaned up his act)
<http://www.radsport-aktiv.de/sport/sportnews_34938.htm >
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2007 21:25:11
From: Shane Stanley
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
In article <v5fun4-slb.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> google the DDR born "Heiko Salzwede", he was just one of many ex DDR
> coaches and doctors hired by the Australians between 1992 and 2000.
You Google: he was the *one* coach hired. Can you name any others?
--
Shane Stanley
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 23:18:28
From: Carl Sundquist
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
"RonSonic" <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com > wrote in message
news:871ka3pbehqrpa5c10dpjojrmp5al08ffm@4ax.com...
>
> Ullrich began in the East German system. Questioning his dopage is like
> wondering if a 17th century Italian might be Catholic.
>
Where did Zabel begin? Jens Voigt?
|
| | | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 12:49:38
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
in message <uszqi.83$g86.45@newsfe14.lga >, Carl Sundquist
('carlsun@cox.net') wrote:
>
> "RonSonic" <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:871ka3pbehqrpa5c10dpjojrmp5al08ffm@4ax.com...
>>
>> Ullrich began in the East German system. Questioning his dopage is like
>> wondering if a 17th century Italian might be Catholic.
>>
>
> Where did Zabel begin?
From former East Germany (East Berlin); turned pro in '93; was in Telekom;
doped; admitted it.
> Jens Voigt?
From former East Germany (Mecklenburg); turned pro in '97 after serving in
the army; rode for ZVVZ Giant in Australia, then for GAN/Credit Agricole,
then CSC.
I know of no major doping scandal related to GAN/Credit Agricole; several
distinguished riders who are commonly assumed not to have doped have
ridden for the team, so it's probable that doping was not systematic in
the team, at least not in the late nineties.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; not so much a refugee from reality, more a bogus
;; asylum seeker
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 19:25:20
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
RonSonic <ronsonic@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:38:54 +0200, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk>
> wrote:
> >Kurgan Gringioni <kgringioni@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> >> > Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> >> > hours like a steam lokomotive.
> >>
> >> Ullrich went uphill like the locomotive from the very start. There was
> >> never a transformation - he took 2nd in his first TdF. Dude had
> >> everything but the discipline.
> >
> >You don't think he was juiced from the beginning? He's climbing
> >abilties in 96 was a surprise to everyone.
> Ullrich began in the East German system. Questioning his dopage is like
> wondering if a 17th century Italian might be Catholic.
exactly.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 09:15:17
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36 -0400, "Breaking News"
<news@cnnsucks.com > wrote:
>Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
>of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he
>on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
>longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
HELLO?
No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
ignore the circumstantial evidence.
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 19:02:23
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36 -0400, "Breaking News"
> <news@cnnsucks.com> wrote:
> >Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
> >of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he
> >on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
> >longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
Rasmussen wouldn't have won TDF because of TT results.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 16:29:18
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:02:23 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36 -0400, "Breaking News"
>> <news@cnnsucks.com> wrote:
>
>> >Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
>> >of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he
>> >on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
>> >longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
>
>> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
>> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
>
>Rasmussen wouldn't have won TDF because of TT results.
Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/results/articles/8592.0.html
and 8 minutes in 2006
http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10535.0.html
This year he defends.
Do the math.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:59:31
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor wrote:
> Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT
He spent a lot of time on the ground.
> and 8 minutes in 2006
He was going for KOM. You don't get any KOM points in a time trial so KOM
contenders only do enough to make the time cut.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 12:54:57
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > writes:
> Doug Taylor wrote:
>> Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT
>
> He spent a lot of time on the ground.
>
>> and 8 minutes in 2006
>
> He was going for KOM. You don't get any KOM points in a time trial so KOM
> contenders only do enough to make the time cut.
>
Hee, hee
They gave KOM points in the Prologue a few years back
Some Wanker rode his Road Bike, sprinted up the minuscule climb and
grabbed Spotted Dick's fave Jersey
Who and when was it anyone?
The Den Bosch start comes to mind but I'm not sure
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 13:26:48
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Davey Crockett <d4Qaveycrockett@azurservers.com > wrote:
> Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> writes:
> > Doug Taylor wrote:
> >> Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT
> >
> > He spent a lot of time on the ground.
> >
> >> and 8 minutes in 2006
> >
> > He was going for KOM. You don't get any KOM points in a time trial so KOM
> > contenders only do enough to make the time cut.
> >
> Hee, hee
> They gave KOM points in the Prologue a few years back
don't see Rasmussen sprint for a single point, that would be a job for
riders like Millar and Chavanell.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 03:17:02
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> >> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
> >> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
> >
> >Rasmussen wouldn't have won TDF because of TT results.
> Not true. He lost than 7 minutes in the 2005 TT
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/results/articles/8592.0.html
So did Cancelara in Albi.
> and 8 minutes in 2006
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10535.0.html
> This year he defends.
no, he lost by 2:55
> Do the math.
do it yourself.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 26 Jul 2007 22:55:37
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:17:02 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>> This year he defends.
>
>no, he lost by 2:55
>
>> Do the math.
>
>do it yourself.
I did and 2:55 is 5 minutes faster than he used to TT. Enough to keep
him in and to defend yellow. Enough to show me his performance is
analogous to Heras in the 2005 Vuelta.
Dude: he is the first yellow jersey ever to get kicked out of the
tour mid race.
You've got two choices:
1) bike racing sucks because the organizers and the teams are corrupt
for punishing riders merely on suspicion of doping (based on the
damning circumstantial evidence of lying, avoiding testing, and
questionably better than his norm performance in TT, AND in the
superhuman performance in the Pyrenees);
2) Skeletor is a doping scumbag and got what he deserved.
I choose #2 and I'm going to watch the rest of the tour.
If you choose #1, I wonder how you can.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:06:16
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> >> This year he defends.
> >
> >no, he lost by 2:55
> >
> >> Do the math.
> >
> >do it yourself.
> I did and 2:55 is 5 minutes faster than he used to TT. Enough to keep
> him in and to defend yellow. Enough to show me his performance is
> analogous to Heras in the 2005 Vuelta.
Then i'd say that Contador's TT in 2007 is analogous to Herras's 2005
TT as well.
TDF 2005 stage 1, 20.7km
------------------------
Evans: -0:57
Contador: -1:57
Rasmussen -3:14
TDF 2005 stage 22, 55km
-----------------------
Evans: -1.41
Contador: -6.12 * this result should prove that Condator is doping
Rasmusen: -7.47 * 2 crashes + 4 bike changes
TDF 2007 prolouge 7.9km
-----------------------
Evans: -0.36
Contador: -0.35
Rasmussen: -1:16
TDF 2007 stage 11, 55km * includes 2 climbs
-----------------------
Evans: -1:14
Cotador: -2:18
Rasmussen: -2.55
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:32:42
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:06:16 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>
>> >> This year he defends.
>> >
>> >no, he lost by 2:55
>> >
>> >> Do the math.
>> >
>> >do it yourself.
>
>> I did and 2:55 is 5 minutes faster than he used to TT. Enough to keep
>> him in and to defend yellow. Enough to show me his performance is
>> analogous to Heras in the 2005 Vuelta.
>
>Then i'd say that Contador's TT in 2007 is analogous to Herras's 2005
>TT as well.
Fine. If you want to push the issue, two words: Operation Puerto.
So, are you supporting my point that Skeletor is an obvious (and
Contador not above suspicion) blood doper, or yours that it's all rosy
in pro cycling and they're all just high on life?
Wake up and smell the coffee.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2007 17:11:13
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> >> >> This year he defends.
> >> >
> >> >no, he lost by 2:55
> >> >
> >> >> Do the math.
> >> >
> >> >do it yourself.
> >
> >> I did and 2:55 is 5 minutes faster than he used to TT. Enough to keep
> >> him in and to defend yellow. Enough to show me his performance is
> >> analogous to Heras in the 2005 Vuelta.
> >
> >Then i'd say that Contador's TT in 2007 is analogous to Herras's 2005
> >TT as well.
> Fine. If you want to push the issue, two words: Operation Puerto.
> So, are you supporting my point that Skeletor is an obvious (and
> Contador not above suspicion) blood doper, or yours that it's all rosy
> in pro cycling and they're all just high on life?
> Wake up and smell the coffee.
I wouldn't be suprised if the majority of the podium candidates where
doping. In fact i find it highly likely that Rasmusen, Evans, Contador,
Leipheimer, Popovitch, Kloeden, Valverde and Kashekin are (Don't have
to mention Armstrong, Ulrich, Basso, Landis and Vinokurov).
I also don't have a major problem with it while at the same time i
support intensive doping controls - I just want them to race a
reasonable equal terms.
What i find disgusting is doubble standarts.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2007 15:45:07
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
In article <hhepn4-jh9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
> Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >> This year he defends.
> > >> >
> > >> >no, he lost by 2:55
> > >> >
> > >> >> Do the math.
> > >> >
> > >> >do it yourself.
> > >
> > >> I did and 2:55 is 5 minutes faster than he used to TT. Enough to keep
> > >> him in and to defend yellow. Enough to show me his performance is
> > >> analogous to Heras in the 2005 Vuelta.
> > >
> > >Then i'd say that Contador's TT in 2007 is analogous to Herras's 2005
> > >TT as well.
>
> > Fine. If you want to push the issue, two words: Operation Puerto.
>
> > So, are you supporting my point that Skeletor is an obvious (and
> > Contador not above suspicion) blood doper, or yours that it's all rosy
> > in pro cycling and they're all just high on life?
>
> > Wake up and smell the coffee.
>
> I wouldn't be suprised if the majority of the podium candidates where
> doping. In fact i find it highly likely that Rasmusen, Evans, Contador,
> Leipheimer, Popovitch, Kloeden, Valverde and Kashekin are (Don't have
> to mention Armstrong, Ulrich, Basso, Landis and Vinokurov).
> I also don't have a major problem with it while at the same time i
> support intensive doping controls - I just want them to race a
> reasonable equal terms.
>
> What i find disgusting is doubble standarts.
I am very disappointed that Rasmusen left the tour. I
want all the best riders in the tour, Rasmusen,
Vinokurov, Basso, Ullrich, Heras, Landis, ... Perhaps,
though, strong evidence is in the hands of the
governing bodies that Rasmusen violated more than his
promise to remain available for drug testing, and that
the latter violation is being used to forestall
revelations more damaging to cycling.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2007 08:23:47
From: Kyle Legate
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Michael Press wrote:
>
>> What i find disgusting is doubble standarts.
>
> I am very disappointed that Rasmusen left the tour. I
> want all the best riders in the tour, Rasmusen,
> Vinokurov, Basso, Ullrich, Heras, Landis, ...
>
It is annoying that everyone is ranking Landis up with the champions,
when he only won the Tour because all the real contenders were not
allowed to start. If nobody was excluded from last years Tour, Landis
might have just cracked the top ten. Champion? Not really.
|
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 22:48:56
From: alex beascoechea
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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I think you are right. But apply equal standards now. Would you have spelled
MR from the TdF based on the facts you have available now (I agree the
witchhunting started quite early)? Or do you think he should have been
allowed to continue. Most likely winning the TdF easily.
Now, enumerate, in your list of highly suspicious (I fully agree on the
others) who would you have rejected based on the proven facts (and even
strong rumors or historical background). There may be some points you
consider facts that I may be missing.
O.K so the winner of the TdF has to be Zubeldia or Sastre. Or are they
suspicious too (based on your other messages having spanish passport give
you a 0.5 prob, I guess even if you are in a danish team)? Who is the first
in the GC that is most probably clean and based on what?
"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:hhepn4-jh9.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com> wrote:
>
>> >> >> This year he defends.
>> >> >
>> >> >no, he lost by 2:55
>> >> >
>> >> >> Do the math.
>> >> >
>> >> >do it yourself.
>> >
>> >> I did and 2:55 is 5 minutes faster than he used to TT. Enough to keep
>> >> him in and to defend yellow. Enough to show me his performance is
>> >> analogous to Heras in the 2005 Vuelta.
>> >
>> >Then i'd say that Contador's TT in 2007 is analogous to Herras's 2005
>> >TT as well.
>
>> Fine. If you want to push the issue, two words: Operation Puerto.
>
>> So, are you supporting my point that Skeletor is an obvious (and
>> Contador not above suspicion) blood doper, or yours that it's all rosy
>> in pro cycling and they're all just high on life?
>
>> Wake up and smell the coffee.
>
> I wouldn't be suprised if the majority of the podium candidates where
> doping. In fact i find it highly likely that Rasmusen, Evans, Contador,
> Leipheimer, Popovitch, Kloeden, Valverde and Kashekin are (Don't have
> to mention Armstrong, Ulrich, Basso, Landis and Vinokurov).
> I also don't have a major problem with it while at the same time i
> support intensive doping controls - I just want them to race a
> reasonable equal terms.
>
> What i find disgusting is doubble standarts.
>
> --
> Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>
>
> Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 12:36:14
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:11:13 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>I also don't have a major problem with it while at the same time i
>support intensive doping controls - I just want them to race a
>reasonable equal terms.
>
>What i find disgusting is doubble standarts.
Amen. This I agree with 100%
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:20:15
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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in message <937ha3pr5p5chh7kf6lvmfjvpfth9mleo5@4ax.com >, Doug Taylor
('dtaylor@dreamscape.com') wrote:
> His TT. Â Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
> tours partly by TT results: Â Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
>
> HELLO?
>
> No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
> ignore the circumstantial evidence.
You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen,
I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been
a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and
in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit
is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him,
and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time
trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they
take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're
considerably tougher than most modern time trials.
We remember one specific time trial in which Rasmussen had every sort of
bad luck and lost his composure and his confidence totally, and we say 'he
can't time trial'. But that's just rubbish. He has put in astounding time
trial performances in all the last three tours - he just hasn't done it on
time trial stages.
Rasmussen /may/ have doped, but his time trial performance isn't any sort
of evidence of it.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Good grief, I can remember when England won the Ashes.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:56:05
From: Mark
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <937ha3pr5p5chh7kf6lvmfjvpfth9mleo5@4ax.com>, Doug Taylor
> ('dtaylor@dreamscape.com') wrote:
>
>> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
>> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
>>
>> HELLO?
>>
>> No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
>> ignore the circumstantial evidence.
>
> You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen,
> I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been
> a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and
> in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit
> is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him,
> and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time
> trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they
> take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're
> considerably tougher than most modern time trials.
If you said he was a mountain-time-trial specialist, I'd agree. There
his very high power-to-weight ratio serves him well. On a flat TT, it's
the power-to-frontal-area ratio that matters most (or power-to-air-drag
ratio). There his physiological or body-type advantage is less, and
he'd be expected to do less well. Further, his mountain exploits are
several hours long versus a ~1 hour time trial. While he has the
mental/physiological ability to do long hilly solo efforts, that's not
quite a TT as the Tour has come to stage them (excluding uphill TTs,
anyway).
That said, it's quite true that Rasmussen's change from the final TT in
the '06 tour to the first TT in the '07 tour is very credibly laid
primarily to his having gotten a clue about how to ride a TT stage - he
was certainly clueless (or psyched out and semi-clueless) last year. He
didn't need improved doping to radically improve over his '06 TT's.
That's not to say he wasn't doping for either or both, either.
Mark J.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 21:58:19
From: Dan Connelly
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Mark wrote:
> That said, it's quite true that Rasmussen's change from the final TT in
> the '06 tour to the first TT in the '07 tour is very credibly laid
> primarily to his having gotten a clue about how to ride a TT stage - he
> was certainly clueless (or psyched out and semi-clueless) last year. He
> didn't need improved doping to radically improve over his '06 TT's.
> That's not to say he wasn't doping for either or both, either.
stage 1 ITT 2005 (prologue-like):
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/?id=results/tour051
174th place
Second ITT: no untainted split times available.
Prologue 2007:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=results/tour070
166th place
I don't see evidence of improvement which can't be explained by motivation.
Then again, there is testimony he has been doping as far back as 2002, so why should we expect it?
Dan
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:08:50
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m > wrote:
> Prologue 2007:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/?id=results/tour070
> 166th place
It includes 3-4 minuttes _OFF_ the bike. BTW in the very same TT Contador
lost 6.12.
> I don't see evidence of improvement which can't be explained by motivation.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 13:35:59
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:20:15 +0100, Simon Brooke
<simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
>in message <937ha3pr5p5chh7kf6lvmfjvpfth9mleo5@4ax.com>, Doug Taylor
>('dtaylor@dreamscape.com') wrote:
>
>> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
>> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
>>
>> HELLO?
>>
>> No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
>> ignore the circumstantial evidence.
>
>You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen,
>I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been
>a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and
>in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit
>is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him,
>and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time
>trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they
>take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're
>considerably tougher than most modern time trials.
>
>We remember one specific time trial in which Rasmussen had every sort of
>bad luck and lost his composure and his confidence totally, and we say 'he
>can't time trial'. But that's just rubbish. He has put in astounding time
>trial performances in all the last three tours - he just hasn't done it on
>time trial stages.
>
>Rasmussen /may/ have doped, but his time trial performance isn't any sort
>of evidence of it.
The analysis is not entirely off the mark. Not to mention that he was
a mountain biker, and those races are really time trials in the woods.
But in THIS tour, he did a (in?)credible TT in a time trial stage.
Yes, he was defending a yellow jersey in this tour. In past tours,
when his TT stages were crap - and not just the 2006 embarrassment;
check 2005 - his goal was a polka dot jersey and a top 10 g.c.
finish. Could be apples and oranges.
But he came to THIS tour following training in what now appears to be
suspicious circumstances, which in retrospect should have precluded
his starting in the first place.
My guess is that he was blood doped to the gills with a plan to win
the race. Nobody but nobody picked him to be close to the podium
before the race. Then he starts putting big time in the Alps, holds on
with an unlikely TT performance, and then kicks major butt in every
single Pyrenees stage.
Sorry, but the cynical side of me says: Marco Pantani, Roberto Heras,
Ivan Basso, Mickael Rasmussen: Climbers who doped to win (almost win)
grand tours.
We'll see...
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:15:04
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> But in THIS tour, he did a (in?)credible TT in a time trial stage.
> Yes, he was defending a yellow jersey in this tour. In past tours,
> when his TT stages were crap - and not just the 2006 embarrassment;
> check 2005 - his goal was a polka dot jersey and a top 10 g.c.
> finish. Could be apples and oranges.
In the first 2006 TT he aimed to loose time in order to be allowed to
get into an escape. The second didn't matter since he didn't care if
he finnished 14th or 35th overall.
In the first 2005 TT he aimed to loose time in order to be allowed to
get into a escape. In the second 2005 TT he crashed twice and changed
bike/wheels 4 times, the result was that he spent 3-4 minuttes _OFF_
the bike durring that TT.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:58:34
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
In article
<nolha3dj1nj833eoc7lf5ghs0o4ff8d1tp@4ax.com >,
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:20:15 +0100, Simon Brooke
> <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >in message <937ha3pr5p5chh7kf6lvmfjvpfth9mleo5@4ax.com>, Doug Taylor
> >('dtaylor@dreamscape.com') wrote:
> >
> >> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
> >> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
> >>
> >> HELLO?
> >>
> >> No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
> >> ignore the circumstantial evidence.
> >
> >You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen,
> >I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been
> >a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and
> >in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit
> >is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him,
> >and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time
> >trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they
> >take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're
> >considerably tougher than most modern time trials.
> >
> >We remember one specific time trial in which Rasmussen had every sort of
> >bad luck and lost his composure and his confidence totally, and we say 'he
> >can't time trial'. But that's just rubbish. He has put in astounding time
> >trial performances in all the last three tours - he just hasn't done it on
> >time trial stages.
> >
> >Rasmussen /may/ have doped, but his time trial performance isn't any sort
> >of evidence of it.
>
> The analysis is not entirely off the mark. Not to mention that he was
> a mountain biker, and those races are really time trials in the woods.
>
> But in THIS tour, he did a (in?)credible TT in a time trial stage.
> Yes, he was defending a yellow jersey in this tour. In past tours,
> when his TT stages were crap - and not just the 2006 embarrassment;
> check 2005 - his goal was a polka dot jersey and a top 10 g.c.
> finish. Could be apples and oranges.
>
> But he came to THIS tour following training in what now appears to be
> suspicious circumstances, which in retrospect should have precluded
> his starting in the first place.
>
> My guess is that he was blood doped to the gills with a plan to win
> the race. Nobody but nobody picked him to be close to the podium
> before the race. Then he starts putting big time in the Alps, holds on
> with an unlikely TT performance, and then kicks major butt in every
> single Pyrenees stage.
>
> Sorry, but the cynical side of me says: Marco Pantani, Roberto Heras,
> Ivan Basso, Mickael Rasmussen: Climbers who doped to win (almost win)
> grand tours.
Doping will not keep you upright on your bicycle.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:57:26
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Michael Press wrote:
> Doping will not keep you upright on your bicycle.
No, you need a specially modified RAAM neck strap.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:18:47
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor wrote:
> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Doug Taylor wrote:
> > His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
> > tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
> Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
> CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
> TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.
Basso isn't a climber, he's an allrounder who just learnt the dicipline
late in his carrer.
Contador and Herras a both examples of pure climbers with
extraordinary good TT abilities. Saiz, Brunel and dr.Fuentes did a
very good job with both of them.
Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
hours like a steam lokomotive.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 17:25:18
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
>Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
>hours like a steam lokomotive.
Suddenly?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:37:13
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
> Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> >Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
> >Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
> >hours like a steam lokomotive.
> Suddenly?
oh yes, tjeck your facts - even Indurain for the first years in his
cariar Indurain did the grupetto, he started going uphill well about
the same time EPO hit european cycling.
Amstrong couldn't climb until the 97 vuelta, even after his weightloss
he was still pretty big compared to true climbers. Of cource durring
the 90'es a lot of the bigger guys suddenly leart how to climb like
rockets.
Hincapee, thats evident.
Ulrich huge compared to the pure climbers.
Vinokrov. Look at the size of his legs, he has the stature of a
sprinter.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:44:51
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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"Morten Reippuert Knudsen" <spam@reippuert.dk > wrote in message
news:parnn4-lg5.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk...
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:00:40 +0200, Morten Reippuert
>> Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
>
>> >Similary one should stop and wonder when big guys like Indurain,
>> >Armstrong, Hincape, Ulrich and Vinokurov suddenly goes uphill for
>> >hours like a steam lokomotive.
>
>> Suddenly?
>
> oh yes, tjeck your facts - even Indurain for the first years in his
> cariar Indurain did the grupetto, he started going uphill well about
> the same time EPO hit european cycling.
>
> Amstrong couldn't climb until the 97 vuelta, even after his weightloss
> he was still pretty big compared to true climbers. Of cource durring
> the 90'es a lot of the bigger guys suddenly leart how to climb like
> rockets.
>
> Hincapee, thats evident.
>
> Ulrich huge compared to the pure climbers.
>
> Vinokrov. Look at the size of his legs, he has the stature of a
> sprinter.
Morten, suddenly you sound like a fool. The simple facts are that EVERYONE
climbs faster now because everyone is training better, longer and harder.
And the equipment is fantastic. Just last weekend I did a metric century on
my C40 and blew away just about everyone on the climbs and they were small
climbs too. That's the difference between a 17 lb bike and 22 lb bike.
Why is it that climbers aren't up front the way they used to be? Because
strong teams have been putting the pace so high that the little climbers
were completely blown away before the climbs even started. That's how people
like Vino, Ullrich and Armstrong managed to make the climbers look bad.
The only reason that climbers have been dominating this year is because the
pace is a lot slower than normal.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 11:55:53
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:18:47 +0200, Donald Munro
<fat-dumbass@hotmail.com > wrote:
>Doug Taylor wrote:
>> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
>> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
>
>Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
>CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
>TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.
Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
improvement - grand tour victory.
Blood doping isn't magic: you need a talented, fit, trained cyclist
to win a tour, dope or no. I'm convinced that Basso needed the
training, the wind tunnel AND the dope to win the Giro.
And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
huge clue.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 02:44:38
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
|
Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
> correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
> improvement - grand tour victory.
There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
better, safer, cheaper and easier.
> Blood doping isn't magic: you need a talented, fit, trained cyclist
> to win a tour, dope or no. I'm convinced that Basso needed the
> training, the wind tunnel AND the dope to win the Giro.
> And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
> Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
> huge clue.
Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:59:53
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: When was EPO first banned?
|
in message <mornn4-lg5.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk >, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
('spam@reippuert.dk') wrote:
> There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
> better, safer, cheaper and easier.
That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO. Was
EPO actually banned in 1996?
I means, suppose Joe Soap wins the tour in 2007 eating bananas, and in 2010
the UCI puts banana on the banned substances list, does this make Joe Soap
a criminal who should hand his yellow jersey back?
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; I put the 'sexy' in 'dyslexia'
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 13:40:50
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
|
Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <mornn4-lg5.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk>, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
> ('spam@reippuert.dk') wrote:
> > There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
> > better, safer, cheaper and easier.
> That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
> Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO. Was
> EPO actually banned in 1996?
EPO was banned in the late 80'es. However evryone used it in the 90'es
because it was undetectable, cheap, uncomplicated, efficient and safe
compared to blodtransfusion wich where dangaerous and banned after the
84 Olympics. Prior to that the entire American track and road team had
been bloddoping ad did Franseco Moser when setting his world record.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 16:33:42
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: When was EPO first banned?
|
Morten Reippuert Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > writes:
> Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>> in message <mornn4-lg5.ln1@wm.reippuert.dk>, Morten Reippuert Knudsen
>> ('spam@reippuert.dk') wrote:
>
>> > There was absolutly no reason for bloddoping until 2001 since EPO was
>> > better, safer, cheaper and easier.
>
>> That raises a question that's been bothering me for a couple of weeks.
>> Bjarne Riis won the tour in 1996. He has since confessed to using EPO. Was
>> EPO actually banned in 1996?
>
> EPO was banned in the late 80'es. However evryone used it in the 90'es
> because it was undetectable, cheap, uncomplicated, efficient and safe
> compared to blodtransfusion wich where dangaerous and banned after the
> 84 Olympics. Prior to that the entire American track and road team had
> been bloddoping ad did Franseco Moser when setting his world record.
>
And there was dumb old Davey thinking Moser took Five Doctors to
Mexico to Roll Aspirin ;)
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 21:25:32
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:44:38 +0200, Morten Reippuert
Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk > wrote:
>> And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
>> Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
>> huge clue.
>
>Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?
Well, last time I checked they weren't kicked off their national teams
then kicked off their pro team and out of the tour for lying about
their whereabouts and missing out of season dope tests, so I'll give
them the benefit of the doubt.
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 10:21:45
From: Morten Reippuert Knudsen
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:44:38 +0200, Morten Reippuert
> Knudsen<spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:
> >> And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
> >> Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
> >> huge clue.
> >
> >Whatabout Contador, Garate and Cobo?
> Well, last time I checked they weren't kicked off their national teams
> then kicked off their pro team and out of the tour for lying about
> their whereabouts and missing out of season dope tests, so I'll give
> them the benefit of the doubt.
Please respond to why Contador, Cobo and Garate mannaged to ride
faster than Miller on a 55km TT! You yourself used the Millar argument.
--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk >
Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 18:34:30
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Donald Munro wrote:
>>Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved
>>to CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride
>>his TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.
Doug Taylor wrote:
> Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
> correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
> improvement - grand tour victory.
Someone with a non-aerodynamic position can achieve quite large
improvement just by improving their position and getting to feel
comfortable on the TT bike. After that the law of diminishing returns
comes into effect and the rider also needs to improve power.
Also the TT that Rasmussen did was far from flat, a flat TT like the one
on Saturday would have been a better test of his pure TT form.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 18:12:48
From: Davey Crockett
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Doug Taylor <dtaylor@dreamscape.com > writes:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:18:47 +0200, Donald Munro
> <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Doug Taylor wrote:
>>> His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
>>> tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.
>>
>>Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
>>CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
>>TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.
>
> Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
> correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
> improvement - grand tour victory.
>
> Blood doping isn't magic: you need a talented, fit, trained cyclist
> to win a tour, dope or no. I'm convinced that Basso needed the
> training, the wind tunnel AND the dope to win the Giro.
>
> And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
> Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
> huge clue.
I think you may be right there
Of course individual riders may work on their technique, but Millar,
presuming he is in fact clean, is certainly a more than reasonable
benchmark
--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 18:28:20
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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Davey Crockett wrote:
> Of course individual riders may work on their technique, but Millar,
> presuming he is in fact clean, is certainly a more than reasonable
> benchmark
All things being equal perhaps, but I think Millar had been working quite
hard for his team the day before and he worked hard the next day as well
so he may have been saving himself.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 05:38:26
From:
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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On Jul 26, 4:50 am, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> in message <13agduff7f00...@news.supernews.com>, Breaking News
>
> ('n...@cnnsucks.com') wrote:
> > Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last
> > stretch of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post
> > here, "Is he on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected
> > him for much longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
>
> You know, you're getting awfully close to my killfile; and so far, despite
> all the kooks and oddballs, I haven't killfiled anyone in this group.
>
> Rasmussen hasn't (yet) even been accused of doping. He's been accused of
> lying about his whereabouts. He could have a number of reasons for doing
> this (and yes, doping is one of them). But his performance yesterday is
> not evidence of doping, unless he's been doping consistently for many
> years (which is possible). We always knew he could climb away from every
> other rider in the peloton. Guess what? He did.
>
> --
> si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
> Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.
Ah...another Lindsey Lohan!!
In complete denial.
Look grow up and face it. The sport is broken.
Kill Files....child...
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 11:43:13
From: Callistus Valerius
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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> Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
> of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is
he
> on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
> longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
-----------
when I first laid eyes on him, I knew he was dirty.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 09:50:57
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?
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in message <13agduff7f00s5f@news.supernews.com >, Breaking News
('news@cnnsucks.com') wrote:
> Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last
> stretch of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post
> here, "Is he on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected
> him for much longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
You know, you're getting awfully close to my killfile; and so far, despite
all the kooks and oddballs, I haven't killfiled anyone in this group.
Rasmussen hasn't (yet) even been accused of doping. He's been accused of
lying about his whereabouts. He could have a number of reasons for doing
this (and yes, doping is one of them). But his performance yesterday is
not evidence of doping, unless he's been doping consistently for many
years (which is possible). We always knew he could climb away from every
other rider in the peloton. Guess what? He did.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.
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