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Main
Date: 12 Jun 2007 13:41:38
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Why do I get dropped?
|
The short answer is I'm not strong enough, but I'm trying to get a
little more specific.
What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
range. In various circut races this always happens, usually on the
second or third of 5 or 6 laps. It happens when a break is going away
or similar and the pace picks up dramatically in the middle of the
hill and I can't keep up. The group always calms down shortly after I
get dropped, so it's really just a case of being able to hold on for
another 10-30 seconds.
I could lose about 10lbs I suppose, but I'm never going to be below
205lbs, so I need to boost my power, and more specifically my ability
to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
factor? What should I do about it?
Joseph
PS: No doping jokes unless they are really funny.
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 19:39:41
From: bdbafh
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 15, 4:15 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 15, 9:35 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <u%Aci.29758$JZ3.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
> > Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
>
> > wrote:
> > > William Asher wrote:
> > > > Anyway, WTF is all this talk of bottle cages? I thought all the cool
> > > > master-fatty people had full time-trial monocoque frames setups with no
> > > > cages and used Camelbaks instead.
>
> > > Dumbass,
>
> > > LANCE's TT bike had an internal camelback. Anything less is for
> > > trailer trash.
>
> > And the bicycle got lighter as the ride progressed.
>
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> When I want my bike to be lighter, like when I'm approaching a climb,
> I just put my water bottles in my pockets.
>
> Joseph
The Young Ones attempting to change a light bulb.
Neil is sent through the ceiling via a see saw.
He craps himself.
Vivian says: "don't worry, it won't change your overall weight".
Brilliant!
-bdbafh
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 13:15:57
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 15, 9:35 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <u%Aci.29758$JZ3.15...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
> Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
>
> wrote:
> > William Asher wrote:
> > > Anyway, WTF is all this talk of bottle cages? I thought all the cool
> > > master-fatty people had full time-trial monocoque frames setups with no
> > > cages and used Camelbaks instead.
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > LANCE's TT bike had an internal camelback. Anything less is for
> > trailer trash.
>
> And the bicycle got lighter as the ride progressed.
>
> --
> Michael Press
When I want my bike to be lighter, like when I'm approaching a climb,
I just put my water bottles in my pockets.
Joseph
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 17:56:40
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:15:57 -0700, "joseph.santaniello@gmail.com"
<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>When I want my bike to be lighter, like when I'm approaching a climb,
>I just put my water bottles in my pockets.
POTM
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 23:55:07
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <io26739gji6tqd36v3b5g11bbsa3eogbcn@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:15:57 -0700, "joseph.santaniello@gmail.com"
> <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >When I want my bike to be lighter, like when I'm approaching a climb,
> >I just put my water bottles in my pockets.
>
> POTM
JT hasn't read "The Rider" by Krabbé! Or he forgot the Antequil story therein.
Or he did, and thinks the reference is funny.
Me go now,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 11:42:29
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
Ryan Cousineau schreef:
> Antequil
Ah, I see you were drunk when posting. Good.
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 20:04:35
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <4673b087$0$328$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl >,
Ewoud Dronkert <firstname@lastname.net.invalid > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau schreef:
> > Antequil
>
> Ah, I see you were drunk when posting. Good.
Oh that it were true...in fact, I'm just illiterate.
Certainly explains why I had trouble googling that story, though.
In case anybody is as dumb as me: Anquetil.
OTOH, I found out that the French phrase for a stage-win time bonus is
"bonification."
I will be very disappointed if rbr can't do something with that.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 20:52:21
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
<snip >
> When I want my bike to be lighter, like when I'm approaching a climb,
> I just put my water bottles in my pockets.
If you carry a tank of compressed hydrogen, as you start the climbs you can
fill the headspace of the camelbak, the frame, and your intestines with
hydrogen.
Alternatively, you can juggle the water bottles.
--
Bill Asher
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 13:44:25
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 9:13 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Any thoughts on the new Polar CS600 with the new power meter? I never
> liked the wristwatch aspect of the 725 (I like holding my bars in the
> middle and it's a bike computer dammit!) and the wire mess and
> installation issues of the power sensor didn't help either. But the
> CS600 seems more to my liking. The calibration method seems a little
> suspect, but the portability between bikes and between different
> wheels and cranks is appealing.
I've never used the Polar power unit but reports I've heard suggest
that as far as functionality goes, it's not much different than the
old S710 power unit. Installation is supposed to be a little bit
easier, but only a very little bit, i.e., it has a pretty high fiddle
factor. Compared to the SRM, PT, and Ergomo, it has limited storage
memory. The reports also say that it doesn't work very well on a
trainer, though I've never been quite sure why. It does have an
altimeter, and if you were a triathlete then it could be quite useful
to have a HRM that worked across all disciplines. However, I'm not a
triathlete and I prefer a power meter whose accuracy is checkable.
I've been examining iBike files, too. It's good for some things but
I'm not sure it's precise enough to use as a guide for power training.
That is, in terms of guiding power training it's about as precise as
using a HRM -- but the problem is that it costs quite a bit more than
a HRM.
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 13:25:49
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 8:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> That said, hey, you think we could convince Joseph to train with a
> parachute on his back?
>
> http://www.timeforfitness.com/running/pro_power_chute.htm
>
> You'll need the big model Joseph, because you're a big guy.
You could ride with an open jersey like Voeckler.
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 12:13:36
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 11:54 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 13, 5:27 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you have a power meter you could try racing with the power meter and
> > see at what wattage you're getting dropped.
>
> Being able to record and then review the race is key.
Any thoughts on the new Polar CS600 with the new power meter? I never
liked the wristwatch aspect of the 725 (I like holding my bars in the
middle and it's a bike computer dammit!) and the wire mess and
installation issues of the power sensor didn't help either. But the
CS600 seems more to my liking. The calibration method seems a little
suspect, but the portability between bikes and between different
wheels and cranks is appealing.
Joseph
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 22:17:07
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
Dans le message de
news:1181848416.018309.143380@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com <joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et
puis a déclaré :
> On Jun 14, 11:54 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Jun 13, 5:27 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you have a power meter you could try racing with the power meter
>>> and see at what wattage you're getting dropped.
>>
>> Being able to record and then review the race is key.
>
> Any thoughts on the new Polar CS600 with the new power meter? I never
> liked the wristwatch aspect of the 725 (I like holding my bars in the
> middle and it's a bike computer dammit!) and the wire mess and
> installation issues of the power sensor didn't help either. But the
> CS600 seems more to my liking. The calibration method seems a little
> suspect, but the portability between bikes and between different
> wheels and cranks is appealing.
>
> Joseph
The new aero shape could save you up to 0.7 watts converted to good use, at
50km/h.
And the weight loss of your money could boost it to even .071.
The most important factor, however, is that you can calibrate it correctly,
demolishing your earlier power analyses, or you can always calibrate it to
flatter. Choice is yours.
--
--
Sandy
--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Français.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 10:36:44
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net >
wrote:
> Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
LOL.
I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 16:26:06
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <1181842604.577393.68180@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com > wrote:
> On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
>
>
> LOL.
>
> I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
> more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
> grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
> don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
>
> I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
Those are great cages. They should last the rest of your life. You can spend about
the same on some carbon cages that don't grip as well as the aluminum ones and will
probably break just as fast (or faster). King Cages are a good investment.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 13:15:52
From: Robert Chung
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 16, 10:04 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> OTOH, I found out that the French phrase for a stage-win time bonus is
> "bonification."
That's what the podium girls are there for.
|
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 11:16:50
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> OTOH, I found out that the French phrase for a stage-win time bonus is
>> "bonification."
Robert Chung wrote:
> That's what the podium girls are there for.
So Hincapie got a bonification.
|
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 23:09:02
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <1182024952.004491.104640@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >,
Robert Chung <rechung@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 16, 10:04 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > OTOH, I found out that the French phrase for a stage-win time bonus is
> > "bonification."
>
> That's what the podium girls are there for.
Now that's what I'm talking about!
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 00:55:29
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 16, 1:55 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <io26739gji6tqd36v3b5g11bbsa3eog...@4ax.com>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:15:57 -0700, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
> > <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >When I want my bike to be lighter, like when I'm approaching a climb,
> > >I just put my water bottles in my pockets.
>
> > POTM
>
> JT hasn't read "The Rider" by Krabb=E9! Or he forgot the Antequil story t=
herein.
>
> Or he did, and thinks the reference is funny.
>
> Me go now,
>
I suppose I could have combined stories and said one of the bottles is
usually filled with lead to aid in descents.
Joseph
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Date: 14 Jun 2007 21:31:00
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article
<YOURhoward-B81B30.16260614062007@comcast.dca.giganews.
com >,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
> In article <1181842604.577393.68180@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
> >
> >
> > LOL.
> >
> > I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
> > more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
> > grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
> > don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
> >
> > I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
>
> Those are great cages. They should last the rest of your life. You can spend about
> the same on some carbon cages that don't grip as well as the aluminum ones and will
> probably break just as fast (or faster). King Cages are a good investment.
I understand perfectly the imponderables that accompany
ownership of this bottle cage. The following is for
amusement only.
King titanium bottle cage weight: 28 g.
The identical design in stainless steel (Blackburn) weight: 40 g.
Weight savings = $3.85 / g = $105 / oz.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 22:45:49
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <rubrum-276CF3.21310014062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net >,
Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net > wrote:
> In article
> <YOURhoward-B81B30.16260614062007@comcast.dca.giganews.
> com>,
> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <1181842604.577393.68180@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
> > >
> > >
> > > LOL.
> > >
> > > I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
> > > more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
> > > grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
> > > don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
> > >
> > > I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
> >
> > Those are great cages. They should last the rest of your life. You can
> > spend about
> > the same on some carbon cages that don't grip as well as the aluminum ones
> > and will
> > probably break just as fast (or faster). King Cages are a good investment.
>
> I understand perfectly the imponderables that accompany
> ownership of this bottle cage. The following is for
> amusement only.
>
> King titanium bottle cage weight: 28 g.
> The identical design in stainless steel (Blackburn) weight: 40 g.
> Weight savings = $3.85 / g = $105 / oz.
Huh, that *is* kind of amusing. A couple of things: I'd had poor luck with
Blackburn cages over the years, and when I got the Kings, I only paid $25 each. I
notice they've gone up a bit (heh). Still think they're worth it.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 09:37:40
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article <rubrum-276CF3.21310014062007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <YOURhoward-B81B30.16260614062007@comcast.dca.giganews.
>> com>,
>> Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1181842604.577393.68180@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
>>>>
>>>> LOL.
>>>>
>>>> I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
>>>> more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
>>>> grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
>>>> don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
>>>>
>>>> I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
>>> Those are great cages. They should last the rest of your life. You can
>>> spend about
>>> the same on some carbon cages that don't grip as well as the aluminum ones
>>> and will
>>> probably break just as fast (or faster). King Cages are a good investment.
>> I understand perfectly the imponderables that accompany
>> ownership of this bottle cage. The following is for
>> amusement only.
>>
>> King titanium bottle cage weight: 28 g.
>> The identical design in stainless steel (Blackburn) weight: 40 g.
>> Weight savings = $3.85 / g = $105 / oz.
>
> Huh, that *is* kind of amusing. A couple of things: I'd had poor luck with
> Blackburn cages over the years, and when I got the Kings, I only paid $25 each. I
> notice they've gone up a bit (heh). Still think they're worth it.
I have no clue what cages are on my bikes. I've only broken a couple
over decades of riding. Really, this almost never happens to me.
Water bottle cages are something you shouldn't have to think about.
I never lose bottles either.
I'm probably dragging lots of extra grams around though. If I were
in full-on fatty master weight weenie mode I might lose sleep over
that. I have bottles that are all marked up too. I don't lose sleep
over that either.
I did have a carbon cage once that didn't hold onto bottles very
well. I didn't lose any sleep over throwing it out and replacing it
with a fat ass aluminum one.
Actually I am carrying around lots of extra grams. That's my own
fucking fault. I should probably lose a little sleep over that, but
I don't.
Bob Schwartz
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 17:50:38
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
Bob Schwartz wrote:
<snip >
>
> I have no clue what cages are on my bikes. I've only broken a couple
> over decades of riding. Really, this almost never happens to me.
> Water bottle cages are something you shouldn't have to think about.
> I never lose bottles either.
>
> I'm probably dragging lots of extra grams around though. If I were
> in full-on fatty master weight weenie mode I might lose sleep over
> that. I have bottles that are all marked up too. I don't lose sleep
> over that either.
>
> I did have a carbon cage once that didn't hold onto bottles very
> well. I didn't lose any sleep over throwing it out and replacing it
> with a fat ass aluminum one.
>
> Actually I am carrying around lots of extra grams. That's my own
> fucking fault. I should probably lose a little sleep over that, but
> I don't.
It sounds to me like someone needs to replace their panache transdermal
ball patch.
Anyway, WTF is all this talk of bottle cages? I thought all the cool
master-fatty people had full time-trial monocoque frames setups with no
cages and used Camelbaks instead.
--
Bill Asher
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 18:37:14
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
William Asher wrote:
> Anyway, WTF is all this talk of bottle cages? I thought all the cool
> master-fatty people had full time-trial monocoque frames setups with no
> cages and used Camelbaks instead.
Dumbass,
LANCE's TT bike had an internal camelback. Anything less is for
trailer trash.
Bob Schwartz
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 19:35:17
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article
<u%Aci.29758$JZ3.15465@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net >,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net >
wrote:
> William Asher wrote:
> > Anyway, WTF is all this talk of bottle cages? I thought all the cool
> > master-fatty people had full time-trial monocoque frames setups with no
> > cages and used Camelbaks instead.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> LANCE's TT bike had an internal camelback. Anything less is for
> trailer trash.
And the bicycle got lighter as the ride progressed.
--
Michael Press
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 20:04:07
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:26:06 -0700, Howard Kveck
<YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
>In article <1181842604.577393.68180@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
>>
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
>> more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
>> grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
>> don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
>>
>> I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
>
> Those are great cages. They should last the rest of your life. You can spend about
>the same on some carbon cages that don't grip as well as the aluminum ones and will
>probably break just as fast (or faster). King Cages are a good investment.
I'm thinking of getting them, though I have to say that the steel King
cages I have are pretty amazing -- good grip and don't mark the
bottles. I'm not sure if the Ti ones could be better. I think I have
lost a bottle once in about six years on the king cages, and that was
on a bumpy dirt road downhill.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
| | | | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 22:45:35
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <6pl373hv5jfm68d733e3buncujjufkm8kn@4ax.com >,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:26:06 -0700, Howard Kveck
> <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <1181842604.577393.68180@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 14, 5:45 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
> >>
> >>
> >> LOL.
> >>
> >> I have King cages. They don't break like Al -- so I doubt they are
> >> more expensive over the long run (none of my Kings have broken). They
> >> grip the bottle great -- it never pops out over rough patches. They
> >> don't seem to lose the grip over time. Yes, they're light.
> >>
> >> I'm a cheap bastard, but even I had to admit they were worth the price.
> >
> > Those are great cages. They should last the rest of your life. You can
> > spend about
> >the same on some carbon cages that don't grip as well as the aluminum ones
> >and will
> >probably break just as fast (or faster). King Cages are a good investment.
>
> I'm thinking of getting them, though I have to say that the steel King
> cages I have are pretty amazing -- good grip and don't mark the
> bottles. I'm not sure if the Ti ones could be better. I think I have
> lost a bottle once in about six years on the king cages, and that was
> on a bumpy dirt road downhill.
I went with the titanium Kings after having a rash of broken Blackburn cages (and
the associated bottle / liquids loss). I haven't had a bottle come out since (at
least on a King cage equipped bike - I did lose one out of an aluminum cage a couple
of years ago, which bounced back into my rear wheel and tore the valve stem off).
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 02:54:57
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 13, 5:27 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> If you have a power meter you could try racing with the power meter and
> see at what wattage you're getting dropped.
Being able to record and then review the race is key.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 08:05:22
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 9:24 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> I think I may try some more structured interval training on my trainer
> and occasionally out on a hill. In the pre-season before there were
> events I was doing long easy rides, and intervals on my rollers. 5x8
> minutes at 93% max HR. Maybe I should do shorter but harder? Now that
> there events (average 2 per week) I only ride long rides and the races
> but no intervals.
1. Racing is training.
2. Max HR doesn't change much as fitness changes (it changes a little,
but not much), so using MaxHR to guide intensity isn't as precise as
using fitness to guide intensity.
3. One type of structured interval training isn't a cure for all
things. Sometimes you'll want to do longer less intense intervals,
sometimes you'll want shorter more intense intervals. A coach can help
you determine what you need to do, and when.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 07:50:15
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 9:24 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > 1. Lose weight
> > 2. Know the course
> > 3. Suck more
> > 4. Do intervals
> > 5. Lose weight
>
> I suppose for point 1 I could eat less, and point 5 I could buy a
> lighter bike. That's an approved FM solution, right?
Dumbass,
A true Fatty Master will just buy a lighter bike and forget the other
four.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 12:45:14
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 14, 9:24 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> 1. Lose weight
>>> 2. Know the course
>>> 3. Suck more
>>> 4. Do intervals
>>> 5. Lose weight
>> I suppose for point 1 I could eat less, and point 5 I could buy a
>> lighter bike. That's an approved FM solution, right?
>
> Dumbass,
>
> A true Fatty Master will just buy a lighter bike and forget the other
> four.
Don't forget the titanium water bottle cage.
I wonder what percentage of CTS's business is fatty masters. One of
the keys to LANCE's success was 2, pre-ride the course.
Bob Schwartz
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 07:43:04
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 12:26 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Jun 14, 8:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > That said, hey, you think we could convince Joseph to train with a
> > parachute on his back?
>
> >http://www.timeforfitness.com/running/pro_power_chute.htm
>
> > You'll need the big model Joseph, because you're a big guy.
>
> > (This is going to be so cool!)
>
> The hard-core adventurer ski-types around here go running on trails in
> the woods in the summer with a car tire attached to their belt
> dragging behind them. I suppose I could attach my kiddie trailer to my
> race bike and fill it with rocks.
>
> Joseph
You and David Michael Anthony:
http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/WHEELS/wheel_riders-anthony.html
Ben
p.s. Isn't running towing a car tire a good way to
equalize the level of trail damage between runners
and dirt bikes?
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 00:26:09
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 8:31 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1181797580.809756.282...@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Jun 14, 3:40 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> > wrote:
> > > Dumbass,
>
> > > The problem is you suck, but you already knew that.
> > > Anyway we all do, the question is how to suck less.
>
> > I think he should suck more. In the long run, he needs to lose weight
> > and raise power--but in the short run, he needs to hide in the pack,
> > sucking wheels, for as long as possible. A lot of rouleurs (and it
> > sounds like Joseph is a rouleur) spend too much time exposed. All in
> > all, I'd say:
>
> > 1. Lose weight
> > 2. Know the course
> > 3. Suck more
> > 4. Do intervals
> > 5. Lose weight
>
> > It's possible to train for hills even if you don't have hills -- it's
> > harder and not as much fun, but it's still possible. What you want to
> > simulate is the power and the duration needed, not the angle of the
> > bicycle above horizontal. You can train power on the flat, or on an
> > indoor trainer.
>
> As usual, Mr. Chung has some good points. I feel like I need a chart,
> but oh well.
>
> That said, hey, you think we could convince Joseph to train with a
> parachute on his back?
>
> http://www.timeforfitness.com/running/pro_power_chute.htm
>
> You'll need the big model Joseph, because you're a big guy.
>
> (This is going to be so cool!)
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
The hard-core adventurer ski-types around here go running on trails in
the woods in the summer with a car tire attached to their belt
dragging behind them. I suppose I could attach my kiddie trailer to my
race bike and fill it with rocks.
Joseph
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 13:15:30
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> The hard-core adventurer ski-types around here go running on trails in
> the woods in the summer with a car tire attached to their belt
> dragging behind them. I suppose I could attach my kiddie trailer to my
> race bike and fill it with rocks.
Rocks, Schmocks! Put the *kids* in the trailer. They can be great
slavedrive^h^h^h^h^h^h^h motivators. "Go faster, Daddy!"
Mark J.
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 00:24:00
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 7:06 am, rechungREMOVET...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 14, 3:40 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > The problem is you suck, but you already knew that.
> > Anyway we all do, the question is how to suck less.
>
> I think he should suck more. In the long run, he needs to lose weight
> and raise power--but in the short run, he needs to hide in the pack,
> sucking wheels, for as long as possible. A lot of rouleurs (and it
> sounds like Joseph is a rouleur) spend too much time exposed. All in
> all, I'd say:
>
> 1. Lose weight
> 2. Know the course
> 3. Suck more
> 4. Do intervals
> 5. Lose weight
>
> It's possible to train for hills even if you don't have hills -- it's
> harder and not as much fun, but it's still possible. What you want to
> simulate is the power and the duration needed, not the angle of the
> bicycle above horizontal. You can train power on the flat, or on an
> indoor trainer.
I'm only exposed when I change in the parking lot. I find the wheel of
the best sprinter guys (who know how much leeway to give the skinny
guys on the hills) and try to hang on. No wind for me unless I end up
on the wrong side in a sidewind, but I'm good at pushing so that
doesn't last long.
I suppose for point 1 I could eat less, and point 5 I could buy a
lighter bike. That's an approved FM solution, right?
I think I may try some more structured interval training on my trainer
and occasionally out on a hill. In the pre-season before there were
events I was doing long easy rides, and intervals on my rollers. 5x8
minutes at 93% max HR. Maybe I should do shorter but harder? Now that
there events (average 2 per week) I only ride long rides and the races
but no intervals.
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 00:20:25
From: Jenko
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
Mark wrote:
> If you can set the tempo others might blindly follow in your comfort zone
That's Armstrong's advice, "pull or get dropped"
Jenko
|
| |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 00:14:11
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 12:55 am, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> Humans aren't evolved to be
> 205lbs.
This particular one was ;-)
Joseph
PS: Ok, 200 maybe.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 10:16:54
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:14:11 -0700, "joseph.santaniello@gmail.com"
<joseph.santaniello@gmail.com > wrote:
>On Jun 14, 12:55 am, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>> Humans aren't evolved to be
>> 205lbs.
>
>This particular one was ;-)
>
>Joseph
>
>PS: Ok, 200 maybe.
There are some guys around here with some funny ideas about how humans are built
and what are appropriate portions of fat and muscle. Don't worry about it
because they are really easy to beat up.
Ron
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 09:23:53
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 14, 12:55 am, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>> Humans aren't evolved to be 205lbs.
>
> This particular one was ;-)
Take up rowing. Open class (the only sensible class) crews average
about 200 lb or 90 kg. (With 10% fat at most.)
--
E. Dronkert
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 22:06:20
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 14, 3:40 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> Dumbass,
>
> The problem is you suck, but you already knew that.
> Anyway we all do, the question is how to suck less.
I think he should suck more. In the long run, he needs to lose weight
and raise power--but in the short run, he needs to hide in the pack,
sucking wheels, for as long as possible. A lot of rouleurs (and it
sounds like Joseph is a rouleur) spend too much time exposed. All in
all, I'd say:
1. Lose weight
2. Know the course
3. Suck more
4. Do intervals
5. Lose weight
It's possible to train for hills even if you don't have hills -- it's
harder and not as much fun, but it's still possible. What you want to
simulate is the power and the duration needed, not the angle of the
bicycle above horizontal. You can train power on the flat, or on an
indoor trainer.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jun 2007 06:31:18
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
In article <1181797580.809756.282820@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
rechungREMOVETHIS@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 14, 3:40 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> wrote:
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > The problem is you suck, but you already knew that.
> > Anyway we all do, the question is how to suck less.
>
> I think he should suck more. In the long run, he needs to lose weight
> and raise power--but in the short run, he needs to hide in the pack,
> sucking wheels, for as long as possible. A lot of rouleurs (and it
> sounds like Joseph is a rouleur) spend too much time exposed. All in
> all, I'd say:
>
> 1. Lose weight
> 2. Know the course
> 3. Suck more
> 4. Do intervals
> 5. Lose weight
>
> It's possible to train for hills even if you don't have hills -- it's
> harder and not as much fun, but it's still possible. What you want to
> simulate is the power and the duration needed, not the angle of the
> bicycle above horizontal. You can train power on the flat, or on an
> indoor trainer.
As usual, Mr. Chung has some good points. I feel like I need a chart,
but oh well.
That said, hey, you think we could convince Joseph to train with a
parachute on his back?
http://www.timeforfitness.com/running/pro_power_chute.htm
You'll need the big model Joseph, because you're a big guy.
(This is going to be so cool!)
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 19:10:24
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 13, 3:27 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> I suppose I should ride more hills. The problem is the island I live
> on has only short ones, so I have to drive (only 30 minutes or so) to
> where some longer hills are and thus that doesn't happen that often.
> How often do you suppose I should do these not-getting-dropped
> simulations?
I would make the drive to get to the right terrain if it's tolerable
to you to do so. I absolutely hate driving my bike somewhere to ride
but when I lived in Salt Lake City I'd often go up to Park City to
ride (mtn bikes). The extra couple thousand feet of altitude mattered
and access to really long climbs made it worth the car time.
How often to do intervals is up to you and your ability to recover.
The training plan I follow has killer intervals no more than once a
week. You need to put out the effort and then recover in order to get
the max effect. I like to do three days of work followed by two days
of recovery but everyone is different and you need to experiment.
My advice, worth exactly what you paid for it, is to get on a plan
that makes sense to you, that you will stick to and enjoy and then
give it a good season to see how it works. If you get into a
disciplined training regimine and give it time you'll get better. Lose
the weight too :-)
One thing to avoid is expecting to improve too much too fast. If you
ride with tired legs all the time you just slide backwards in fitness
and get frustrated.
> I've got about 10lbs extra which is slated to be gone. That's the plan
> at least...
Good start. All you have to do is look at watts / kg to see that
lighter is typically going to be better.
> I dream of the day one of the local races is tailor made for me.
As long as it's fun keep moving forward. It'll feel great that one day
when you don't get dropped and are there for the field sprint.
Mark
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 18:40:53
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 12, 1:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> The short answer is I'm not strong enough, but I'm trying to get a
> little more specific.
>
> What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> range. In various circut races this always happens, usually on the
> second or third of 5 or 6 laps. It happens when a break is going away
> or similar and the pace picks up dramatically in the middle of the
> hill and I can't keep up. The group always calms down shortly after I
> get dropped, so it's really just a case of being able to hold on for
> another 10-30 seconds.
>
> I could lose about 10lbs I suppose, but I'm never going to be below
> 205lbs, so I need to boost my power, and more specifically my ability
> to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> factor? What should I do about it?
>
> Joseph
>
> PS: No doping jokes unless they are really funny.
Dumbass,
The problem is you suck, but you already knew that.
Anyway we all do, the question is how to suck less.
One thing you should not forget is how close the
difference is between being dropped and not. If
your climbs are on the order of 2-5 minutes long
and you need to hold on for an extra 10-30 secs
(or are getting dropped by 10-30 sec) that's about
10 percent. Losing 10 pounds is 5% of your weight
so that's half the difference right there if you
lose it and keep the power up. I also think that unless
you're really, really tall, 205 lbs is a lot for
someone who races regularly, but I don't know your
body shape. Also, putting in extra riding to take
off weight has benefits itself.
Other people already suggested that you basically
need to train the specific thing you're having
trouble with. I usually got popped on short hard
hills or accelerations and probably a major reason
is that I was never particularly devoted to doing
intervals. Intervals suck, but one nice thing if
you actually have a job or life is that they are
fairly efficient in terms of training load per
clock time.
Another reason is that I rode with people faster
than me. This is a pretty good way to improve,
if you live.
Ben
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 23:55:41
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
in message <1181680898.073358.140270@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com ('joseph.santaniello@gmail.com') wrote:
> The short answer is I'm not strong enough, but I'm trying to get a
> little more specific.
>
> What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> range. In various circut races this always happens, usually on the
> second or third of 5 or 6 laps. It happens when a break is going away
> or similar and the pace picks up dramatically in the middle of the
> hill and I can't keep up. The group always calms down shortly after I
> get dropped, so it's really just a case of being able to hold on for
> another 10-30 seconds.
>
> I could lose about 10lbs I suppose, but I'm never going to be below
> 205lbs, so I need to boost my power, and more specifically my ability
> to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> factor? What should I do about it?
How tall are you, Joe? 205lbs is a lot of weight. I'm fifty-mumble years
old and six foot one tall and at least twenty pounds overweight, but I'm
only 180lbs. I think I'd be faster up hill - no, I know I'd be faster up
hill - if I could make it down to 165lbs.
The alternative is to go for a lot of power, but then you have to worry
about joints and cartilage. I've a friend who is 250lbs and ten years
younger; until recently he was much faster than me uphill, because he's
enormously strong. He isn't faster any more because his knees have gone,
and he can't even walk without a stick. The materials of your body are
just engineering materials like any others, and if you take them out of
specification they fail pretty quickly. Humans aren't evolved to be
205lbs.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
A message from our sponsor: This site is now in free fall
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 07:43:04
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 13, 2:27 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> > > range.
> > > to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> > > factor? What should I do about it?
Lose as much of that ten pounds as you can while keeping your
strength. (easy to type, at least)
Hill repeats can be short; all you need is a few more seconds of burn
time, right? Highly radioactive, use caution with dosing your hard
efforts training and racing.
Repeated/prolonged chases after getting dropped in a race might be
negative for body and mind-- making you tired, not faster, and not
exactly polishing your psych, either.
Better might be doing your absolute best to hang in these hilly races
(incl. all aspects of saving energy and using it to best effect), then
uncoupling from the race when your efforts start to go backwards, and
having a nice, steady (not too easy or too hard) ride home, arriving
perhaps a little tired but not beat up. IOW, burn some calories, then
get some good rest. --D-y
|
| |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 00:27:18
From: joseph.santaniello@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 12, 11:17 pm, Mark <twobowl...@aol.com > wrote:
> On Jun 12, 4:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> > range.
> > to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> > factor? What should I do about it?
>
> The pat answer is train your weakness and race your strengths. If it's
> the sudden surge uphill that you can't do then you have to train to do
> that by doing pick ups in the middle of climbs and focus on the short
> duration power generation needed to hang on.
I suppose I should ride more hills. The problem is the island I live
on has only short ones, so I have to drive (only 30 minutes or so) to
where some longer hills are and thus that doesn't happen that often.
How often do you suppose I should do these not-getting-dropped
simulations?
> In terms of strategy, perhaps you can change your positioning in the
> pack. If you know a longish climb is coming up where you are likely to
> have trouble then get near the front for the climb. If you can set the
> tempo others might blindly follow in your comfort zone. Worse case as
> you get shuffled back in the surge you'll end up at either at the tail
> toward the top or perhaps have a chance to bridge back on when the
> group settles. But at least try something different from what is not
> working.
We have races just about every Tuesday so I have tried a few different
stategies, all to no avail so far. The races have been on courses that
have been new to me, so that didn't help. Later in the season some of
the races are on the same courses and I'll at least know what is
coming. I do position myself toward the front before climbs and I end
up sliding backwards. Over the top, I keep the effort up and work my
way up toward the front again. Often this can only be done by going up
the open windward side of the road which has backfired a few times as
I have already got my HR up high just as we roll into another (bigger)
hill. On these hills where I have been getting dropped, a few strong
climber types go clear, and the group goes like Hell to keep up. If
the climbers go clear, the fast guys in the group (several of whom do
10km TT's in the 12 minute range) set up a rotation and hammer to
catch the break. In those situations, the chances of me being able to
bridge is pretty much zero. I usually pick up a few other stragglers,
but they rarely have my speed on the flats, so it turns into a
training ride where we try to see how narrow we can hold the gap.
> Obviously at your size you need to change your power to weight ratio
> to climb better and you are unlikely to ever to climb like a 120
> pounder. It's usually easier to drop weight but if you are already a
> lean but large guy it's going to take specific training and time.
I've got about 10lbs extra which is slated to be gone. That's the plan
at least...
>
> FWIW - for some reason a lot of folks want to do well at certain races
> that really don't suit them. Sprinters doing hill climbs and 120
> pounders trying to race crits banging away with the big boys. Rather
> than worrying about circuit races with long climbs perhaps you'd be
> better focusing on races where your size (and presumed power) would be
> an advantage as opposed to a liability?
I dream of the day one of the local races is tailor made for me. There
is some punishment to be dispensed! The strong guys around here would
of course dominate these races as well, but I wouldn't really be on
their radar so anything could happen. The races so far have been from
60 to 80km long with none less than 400m of ascent. I might suffer the
same fate from all the short bursts in a crit, but I reckon I'd do
better there no matter what.
Joseph
|
| | |
Date: 13 Jun 2007 17:27:09
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
> I suppose I should ride more hills. The problem is the island I live
> on has only short ones, so I have to drive (only 30 minutes or so) to
> where some longer hills are and thus that doesn't happen that often.
> How often do you suppose I should do these not-getting-dropped
> simulations?
If you have a power meter you could try racing with the power meter and
see at what wattage you're getting dropped. Then in training try to hold
at a wattage below that wattage that you can hold for the required time.
Repeat over a period of weeks gradually increasing the wattage until you
get to the wattage where you were dropped (and hope the other guys haven't
improved and moved the goalposts). Of course the above assumes you have
some time, if you're racing weekly you might not get instant results.
|
| |
Date: 12 Jun 2007 14:54:05
From: SLAVE of THE STATE
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
|
On Jun 12, 1:51 pm, cyclin...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 12, 1:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
>
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The short answer is I'm not strong enough, but I'm trying to get a
> > little more specific.
>
> > What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> > range. In various circut races this always happens, usually on the
> > second or third of 5 or 6 laps. It happens when a break is going away
> > or similar and the pace picks up dramatically in the middle of the
> > hill and I can't keep up. The group always calms down shortly after I
> > get dropped, so it's really just a case of being able to hold on for
> > another 10-30 seconds.
>
> > I could lose about 10lbs I suppose, but I'm never going to be below
> > 205lbs, so I need to boost my power, and more specifically my ability
> > to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> > factor? What should I do about it?
>
> I doubt that someone that's 200 lbs will EVER be able to develop
> enough strength to stay with climbers. Knock off 25 lbs and you'll be
> able to ride along with them as if they were dawdling.- Hide quoted text -
Andy Paulin climbed pretty well at over 200 lbs.
Anyway, this is the standard fatty question: Joe has to lose weight.
Not sucking is necessary, and perhaps sufficient.
Where is Warren to talk about increasing power instead of losing
wieght?
Warren? Warren? Warren? Whither are thee?
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Date: 13 Jun 2007 10:04:35
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
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SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> Warren? Warren? Warren? Whither are thee?
Probably in the gym, if only so he can beat up our CSO.
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Date: 12 Jun 2007 14:41:16
From: dustoyevsky@mac.com
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
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On Jun 12, 3:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> range. In various circut races this always happens, usually on the
> second or third of 5 or 6 laps. It happens when a break is going away
> or similar and the pace picks up dramatically in the middle of the
> hill and I can't keep up. The group always calms down shortly after I
> get dropped, so it's really just a case of being able to hold on for
> another 10-30 seconds.
That's your race, right there. So, don't do any work before that.
Simple, huh?
The weight thing is crucial, of course. Any extra you're carrying,
this is where it matters. As you well know.
Motorpace on those same hills, is another suggestion. --D-y
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Date: 12 Jun 2007 14:17:13
From: Mark
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
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On Jun 12, 4:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> range.
> to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> factor? What should I do about it?
The pat answer is train your weakness and race your strengths. If it's
the sudden surge uphill that you can't do then you have to train to do
that by doing pick ups in the middle of climbs and focus on the short
duration power generation needed to hang on.
In terms of strategy, perhaps you can change your positioning in the
pack. If you know a longish climb is coming up where you are likely to
have trouble then get near the front for the climb. If you can set the
tempo others might blindly follow in your comfort zone. Worse case as
you get shuffled back in the surge you'll end up at either at the tail
toward the top or perhaps have a chance to bridge back on when the
group settles. But at least try something different from what is not
working.
Obviously at your size you need to change your power to weight ratio
to climb better and you are unlikely to ever to climb like a 120
pounder. It's usually easier to drop weight but if you are already a
lean but large guy it's going to take specific training and time.
FWIW - for some reason a lot of folks want to do well at certain races
that really don't suit them. Sprinters doing hill climbs and 120
pounders trying to race crits banging away with the big boys. Rather
than worrying about circuit races with long climbs perhaps you'd be
better focusing on races where your size (and presumed power) would be
an advantage as opposed to a liability?
Mark
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Date: 13 Jun 2007 01:40:12
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
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In article <1181683033.636426.59600@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com >,
Mark <twobowlers@aol.com > wrote:
> On Jun 12, 4:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> > range.
>
> > to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> > factor? What should I do about it?
>
> The pat answer is train your weakness and race your strengths. If it's
> the sudden surge uphill that you can't do then you have to train to do
> that by doing pick ups in the middle of climbs and focus on the short
> duration power generation needed to hang on.
> FWIW - for some reason a lot of folks want to do well at certain races
> that really don't suit them. Sprinters doing hill climbs and 120
> pounders trying to race crits banging away with the big boys. Rather
> than worrying about circuit races with long climbs perhaps you'd be
> better focusing on races where your size (and presumed power) would be
> an advantage as opposed to a liability?
>
> Mark
I think Joseph has previously posted about the rather uniform nature of
the races where he lives: there aren't a lot of races that don't have
hills in 'em.
FWIW, I think the advice here is all pretty much correct: lose weight,
train on the hills where you get hurt, and I always figure it doesn't
hurt to remind people that intervals are always the right answer. In my
opinion, few tactics can compete with simply being able to keep up. The
only other contribution I might have is yes, do your best to hang onto
the back of the pack, but if you really do have the performance to be at
the front of these races, then you should be able to catch up on the
back side of the hill. After all, you are relatively heavy!
Ryan needs to work on his excess 18 pounds...
Oh, and here's my funny doping reference: You should take kenacort.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
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Date: 12 Jun 2007 13:51:15
From:
Subject: Re: Why do I get dropped?
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On Jun 12, 1:41 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com > wrote:
> The short answer is I'm not strong enough, but I'm trying to get a
> little more specific.
>
> What happens is I get dropped on hills in the 1-2km long at 4-6%
> range. In various circut races this always happens, usually on the
> second or third of 5 or 6 laps. It happens when a break is going away
> or similar and the pace picks up dramatically in the middle of the
> hill and I can't keep up. The group always calms down shortly after I
> get dropped, so it's really just a case of being able to hold on for
> another 10-30 seconds.
>
> I could lose about 10lbs I suppose, but I'm never going to be below
> 205lbs, so I need to boost my power, and more specifically my ability
> to keep it redlined for a few more seconds. What is my limiting
> factor? What should I do about it?
I doubt that someone that's 200 lbs will EVER be able to develop
enough strength to stay with climbers. Knock off 25 lbs and you'll be
able to ride along with them as if they were dawdling.
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