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Main
Date: 25 Jul 2007 23:38:56
From: Steve Freides
Subject: Why does where he trained matter?
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I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
_why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just
don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts all
the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
circumstances.
I don't mean to rant here, but I just don't get it. It seems like
common sense has gone out the window.
-S-
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 15:17:12
From: datakoll
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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http://www.rabobank.com/content/about_us/
in some areas, the dutch are very uptight.
rasmussen is not dutch.
think witch hunt lynching.
a fulcrum appears to be the fans reaction, the basque-french-spanish?
reaction reportedly booing rasmussen. very volatile group.
and consider the entire mess as a PR excercise at this point.
a similar problem confronted the so called US Supreme Court in Bush v
Gore where south american republican goon squads were set on people
trying to sort out illegal voting and voting fraud problems.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:18:02
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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in message <5gqjgiF3hd3ouU1@mid.individual.net >, Steve Freides
('steve@fridayscomputer.com') wrote:
> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just
> don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts all
> the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
> circumstances.
He needs to report his whereabouts so that they can do random dope testing.
He needs to be honest with his own management, because if they can't trust
him not to lie when he tells them where he is, how can they trust him not
to lie when he says he hasn't been doping?
What he's been slung out for is lying, not for training in Italy. But Italy
is where some notorious doping trainers live.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
I'm fed up with Life 1.0. I never liked it much and now it's getting
me down. I think I'll upgrade to MSLife 97 -- you know, the one that
comes in a flash new box and within weeks you're crawling with bugs.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 06:40:05
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Jul 25, 10:17 pm, "amit.gh...@gmail.com" <amit.gh...@gmail.com >
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 12:27 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
> wrote:
>
> > However, they could be justified in suspending
> > him just based on misleading them about his whereabouts.
>
> dumbass,
>
> they could, but the step they took is drastic and irreversible and
> also very damaging to the team.
>
> they would not do that just because ras didn't put the new coversheets
> on the TPS reports.
Dumbass,
I agree, perhaps I didn't phrase it well. They _could_
suspending him for lying about his vacation, if they
wanted to. Even under Euro labor laws and such, they'd
probably be justified. But would they? No, they wouldn't
suspend him unless there was something more deeply sticky,
and/or the UCI/ASO put pressure on them. And even under
a UCI pressure conspiracy theory, I don't think McQuaid
et al have the juice to pressure them without also showing
evidence of something more rotten in the state of Denmark.
First the TPS reports go out looking sloppy, the next
day you wake up and the whole business has imploded like
Enron. Those Dutch run a tight ship, you know.
Ben
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 06:31:10
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Jul 25, 11:24 pm, Stu Fleming <stew...@wic.co.nz > wrote:
>
> Damn it's so harsh. Losing your job, kicked off the Tour, possibly
> banned and all because you said "Mexico" when you meant "Italy".
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/mx.html
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it.html
It's actually quite easy to take one for the other
on a quick glance. An innocent mistake, surely.
Ben
now an hour's drive from the US border with Italy.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:20:14
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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in message <1185431470.622770.170800@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com >,
bjw@mambo.ucolick.org ('bjw@mambo.ucolick.org') wrote:
> On Jul 25, 11:24 pm, Stu Fleming <stew...@wic.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Damn it's so harsh. Losing your job, kicked off the Tour, possibly
>> banned and all because you said "Mexico" when you meant "Italy".
>
> http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/mx.html
>
> http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/it.html
>
> It's actually quite easy to take one for the other
> on a quick glance. An innocent mistake, surely.
That's about my first grin this morning - thanks.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GP/CS s++: a++ C+++ ULBVCS*++++$ L+++ P--- E+ >++ W+++ N++ K w--(---)
M- !d- PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP !t 5? X+ !R b++ !DI D G- e++ h*(-) r++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 11:08:13
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> It's actually quite easy to take one for the other
> on a quick glance. An innocent mistake, surely.
>
> Ben
> now an hour's drive from the US border with Italy.
Ah, so the peace doves are Italian and not Mexican.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 18:24:31
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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Steve Freides wrote:
> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just
> don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts all
> the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
> circumstances.
Damn it's so harsh. Losing your job, kicked off the Tour, possibly
banned and all because you said "Mexico" when you meant "Italy".
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 05:57:38
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:24:31 +1200, Stu Fleming <stewart@wic.co.nz >
wrote:
>Steve Freides wrote:
>> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
>> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
>> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
>> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just
>> don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts all
>> the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
>> circumstances.
>
>Damn it's so harsh. Losing your job, kicked off the Tour, possibly
>banned and all because you said "Mexico" when you meant "Italy".
Yeah, I mean they all speak the same language right? Johnny Foreigner.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 05:17:56
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Jul 26, 12:27 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> However, they could be justified in suspending
> him just based on misleading them about his whereabouts.
dumbass,
they could, but the step they took is drastic and irreversible and
also very damaging to the team.
they would not do that just because ras didn't put the new coversheets
on the TPS reports.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 04:27:03
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Jul 25, 8:38 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com > wrote:
> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just
> don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts all
> the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
> circumstances.
>
> I don't mean to rant here, but I just don't get it. It seems like
> common sense has gone out the window.
He's supposed to let the dope-testing agencies know
where he is so they can show up on short notice if
they do an out-of-competition test. Out-of-competition
tests have to be near-surprises, for obvious reasons
(and they're more likely to be an effective testing
regimen than in-competition tests).
It's quite likely that amit is right that Rabobank is
yanking him to avoid a greater embarrassment in the near
future. However, they could be justified in suspending
him just based on misleading them about his whereabouts.
If they can't trust him on that, what else can they not
trust him on? It's extra sensitive since as long as he's
racing, the team management has to back him publicly,
defend him to the press, and assert their trust in him.
Presumably all the teams occasionally express trust in
someone they privately have questions about (Who of us
hasn't ever done this?) but everybody's got some
threshold of stink they just can't hold their noses
for anymore.
Ben
I'll forgive people for misleading me ... but they
have to be cute.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 04:24:59
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com > wrote in message
news:5gqjgiF3hd3ouU1@mid.individual.net...
>I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
>_why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not another?
>He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage today, and he's
>kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just don't get how _any_
>job can require you to report your whereabouts all the time - it's probably
>illegal to even require that under some circumstances.
>
> I don't mean to rant here, but I just don't get it. It seems like common
> sense has gone out the window.
As for Rassmussen - he agreed to the terms of his employment which included
reporting his whereabouts all the time for a couple of years. He was
extremely well paid so he can't complain too loudly.
My GUESS is that he was in Italy to see one of the cycling doctors who have
taken training to such a fine science that few others can compare. But
because they've also used drugs to correct other cyclists I'm sure he was
forbidden by his team to have any contact with them. In other words -
Ferrari, Cechinni and Conconi are all tainted names and even if all they did
was build a superior training program for Rassmussen there would always be
questions. So he lied to his employer and they quite properly were worried
that he lied in other matters as well including whether or not he used
drugs.
It's all pretty damned complex but the bottom line is this - Rabobank
protected their reputation as they should have. Rassmussen may have been
completely on the up and up but who but he would know?
It is a sad state of affairs in which the jackasses and fascists scream of
his guilt when they have no knowlegde whatsoever and haven't a trace of
respect for anyone in this world save themselves. As for myself - he is
apparently guilty of lying to his employer who therefore suspended and I
expect will terminate his employment. Other than that I might speculate but
never accuse.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:29:30
From: G.T.
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> My GUESS is that he was in Italy to see one of the cycling doctors who have
> taken training to such a fine science that few others can compare.
What proof do you have that they've created such a fine science? The
only fine science I think they've developed is how to dope discretely.
Greg
--
The ticketbastard Tax Tracker:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html
Dethink to survive - Mclusky
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Date: 27 Jul 2007 00:29:10
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com > wrote in message
news:13ag8pbci5rlv79@corp.supernews.com...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> My GUESS is that he was in Italy to see one of the cycling doctors who
>> have taken training to such a fine science that few others can compare.
>
> What proof do you have that they've created such a fine science? The only
> fine science I think they've developed is how to dope discretely.
If you don't know what they've been doing over the last three decades a
couple of lines here sure isn't going to clue you in.
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Date: 25 Jul 2007 21:21:52
From: Scott
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Jul 25, 9:38 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com > wrote:
> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I just
> don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts all
> the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
> circumstances.
>
> I don't mean to rant here, but I just don't get it. It seems like
> common sense has gone out the window.
>
> -S-
I'm guessing you didn't read (really read) the articles regarding his
sacking. Missing three unanounced tests by the same organization = a
positive test. He missed two tests from two different agencies, so it
was only on a technicality that he was allowed to start the race in
the first place.
But, more importantly, the rules under which the UCI pro cyclists
operate dictate that they keep their teams and the UCI/WADA aware of
their general whereabouts at all time, so that they can be found when
it's time to show up unannounced they know where to find them. Lying
about your whereabouts is the equivelant to a positive test. He told
his team he was in Mexico when in fact he was in Italy. Guilty.
period.
Did he dope while in Italy? Don't know/don't care. He knew he was
supposed to advise his team of his whereabouts and he lied about it in
conflict of the regulations and the provisions of his contract. He
deserved to be fired.
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 10:28:50
From: Steve Freides
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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"Scott" <hendricks_scott@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1185423712.948861.259120@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 25, 9:38 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell
>> me
>> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
>> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
>> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality. I
>> just
>> don't get how _any_ job can require you to report your whereabouts
>> all
>> the time - it's probably illegal to even require that under some
>> circumstances.
>>
>> I don't mean to rant here, but I just don't get it. It seems like
>> common sense has gone out the window.
>>
>> -S-
>
> I'm guessing you didn't read (really read) the articles regarding his
> sacking. Missing three unanounced tests by the same organization = a
> positive test. He missed two tests from two different agencies, so it
> was only on a technicality that he was allowed to start the race in
> the first place.
Alright, at least that makes sense to me - you agree to unannounced drug
tests, so they have to be able to find you to test you.
Thanks.
-S-
> But, more importantly, the rules under which the UCI pro cyclists
> operate dictate that they keep their teams and the UCI/WADA aware of
> their general whereabouts at all time, so that they can be found when
> it's time to show up unannounced they know where to find them. Lying
> about your whereabouts is the equivelant to a positive test. He told
> his team he was in Mexico when in fact he was in Italy. Guilty.
> period.
>
> Did he dope while in Italy? Don't know/don't care. He knew he was
> supposed to advise his team of his whereabouts and he lied about it in
> conflict of the regulations and the provisions of his contract. He
> deserved to be fired.
>
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Date: 26 Jul 2007 04:14:43
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Why does where he trained matter?
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On Jul 25, 11:38 pm, "Steve Freides" <st...@fridayscomputer.com >
wrote:
> I know I don't follow cycling as close as I used to, but please tell me
> _why_ it matters so much that a rider was in one country and not
> another? He showed up, he was leading, he rode a convincing stage
> today, and he's kicked out on what seems to be a technicality.
dumbass,
the real reason he was pulled because he was doping and was about to
be caught (or implicated).
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