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Main
Date: 06 Feb 2007 00:32:23
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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Maybe it was always like this, and I don't remember, but it sure seems like
the Peloton is anything but one big happy family these days. Riders aren't
afraid to name names anymore (although only names that have already been
accused elsewhere), and it's getting to the point where you become either
incredibly cynical (and believe that everybody's doping, and the extreme
protestations otherwise are simply extreme inward denial) or that there
actually are a fair number of riders who race clean.
The sad thing is that those who are most-vocal about being clean themselves
also tend to be most-vocal in trashing Landis, not recognizing that what's
happening to Floyd might just as easily happen to them someday. Even if
there's only a 5% chance that Landis is actually clean, the other
(supposedly clean) cyclists should be calling for doping controls that
remove any possibility of doubt, and a system of determining guilt or
innocence that's much faster than what we have now. They don't seem to
realize that the dragging out of such a mess works entirely against the
rider, as the weight of time wears heavily on the riders' resources, not to
mention his body... while at the same time adding momentum to the idea that
he's guilty. But that's just me preaching.
The main thing I wonder is- are we seeing something relatively new, or have
riders been as strongly against other riders in the past?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 05:48:45
From: Qui si parla Campagnolo
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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On Feb 5, 5:32 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> Maybe it was always like this, and I don't remember, but it sure seems like
> the Peloton is anything but one big happy family these days. Riders aren't
> afraid to name names anymore (although only names that have already been
> accused elsewhere), and it's getting to the point where you become either
> incredibly cynical (and believe that everybody's doping, and the extreme
> protestations otherwise are simply extreme inward denial) or that there
> actually are a fair number of riders who race clean.
>
> The sad thing is that those who are most-vocal about being clean themselves
> also tend to be most-vocal in trashing Landis, not recognizing that what's
> happening to Floyd might just as easily happen to them someday.
So Mike, what exactly IS 'happening to Floyd". Like those who have
convicted him already, you seem to have exonerated him already.
Even if
> there's only a 5% chance that Landis is actually clean, the other
> (supposedly clean) cyclists should be calling for doping controls that
> remove any possibility of doubt, and a system of determining guilt or
> innocence that's much faster than what we have now. They don't seem to
> realize that the dragging out of such a mess works entirely against the
> rider, as the weight of time wears heavily on the riders' resources, not to
> mention his body... while at the same time adding momentum to the idea that
> he's guilty. But that's just me preaching.
>
> The main thing I wonder is- are we seeing something relatively new, or have
> riders been as strongly against other riders in the past?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 18:36:43
From: Mike Jacoubowsky
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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> On Feb 5, 5:32 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>> Maybe it was always like this, and I don't remember, but it sure seems
>> like
>> the Peloton is anything but one big happy family these days. Riders
>> aren't
>> afraid to name names anymore (although only names that have already been
>> accused elsewhere), and it's getting to the point where you become either
>> incredibly cynical (and believe that everybody's doping, and the extreme
>> protestations otherwise are simply extreme inward denial) or that there
>> actually are a fair number of riders who race clean.
>>
>> The sad thing is that those who are most-vocal about being clean
>> themselves
>> also tend to be most-vocal in trashing Landis, not recognizing that
>> what's
>> happening to Floyd might just as easily happen to them someday.
>
> So Mike, what exactly IS 'happening to Floyd". Like those who have
> convicted him already, you seem to have exonerated him already.
I think I explained that in the following paragraph-
>> Even if
>> there's only a 5% chance that Landis is actually clean, the other
>> (supposedly clean) cyclists should be calling for doping controls that
>> remove any possibility of doubt, and a system of determining guilt or
>> innocence that's much faster than what we have now. They don't seem to
>> realize that the dragging out of such a mess works entirely against the
>> rider, as the weight of time wears heavily on the riders' resources, not
>> to
>> mention his body... while at the same time adding momentum to the idea
>> that
>> he's guilty. But that's just me preaching.
It's more about wearing the accused down than about a real finding of guilt.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 11:15:56
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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On 6 Feb 2007 05:48:45 -0800, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com >
wrote:
>On Feb 5, 5:32 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>> Maybe it was always like this, and I don't remember, but it sure seems like
>> the Peloton is anything but one big happy family these days. Riders aren't
>> afraid to name names anymore (although only names that have already been
>> accused elsewhere), and it's getting to the point where you become either
>> incredibly cynical (and believe that everybody's doping, and the extreme
>> protestations otherwise are simply extreme inward denial) or that there
>> actually are a fair number of riders who race clean.
>>
>> The sad thing is that those who are most-vocal about being clean themselves
>> also tend to be most-vocal in trashing Landis, not recognizing that what's
>> happening to Floyd might just as easily happen to them someday.
>
>So Mike, what exactly IS 'happening to Floyd". Like those who have
>convicted him already, you seem to have exonerated him already.
Floyd has made a better case for himself than they've presented against him so
far. Aside from a couple of days of confused, desperate and dumbfounded
interviews (he didn't know to shut up until he had any real answers) he has
comported himself in a more professional and fact-oriented manner than his
accusers.
Ron
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 15:24:06
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com > wrote in message
news:1170769725.229751.193900@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> So Mike, what exactly IS 'happening to Floyd". Like those who have
> convicted him already, you seem to have exonerated him already.
Floyd has made the case against him public. The fact that the t/e ratio was
4.5:1 for the first test and 11:1 for the second test says it all. There was
contamination in the urine and the findings of positive are completely
bogus. Finding a bad carbon isotope ratio means nothing since you don't know
what the heck the contaminant is - and it was probably a bacteria of some
sort so there's no telling what sort of carbon isotope ratio you'd find.
Whether or not USA Cycling clears him it's an open and shut case of false
charges.
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 05:39:18
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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On Feb 6, 8:32 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> ilan wrote:
> > It kind of reminds me of the Saturday Night Live News where they would
> > quote the UCI as saying: "At least we're better than soccer."
>
> At least the Italian cycling tifosi haven't got around to throwing
> explosives into police cars.
The post-mortem showed that the policeman was killed by a blow to the
head with a blunt object.
That required more sporting ability than dropping a bomb.
-ilan
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Date: 05 Feb 2007 17:36:39
From: ilan
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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On Feb 6, 1:39 am, "Bill C" <tritonri...@verizon.net > wrote:
> On Feb 5, 7:32 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Maybe it was always like this, and I don't remember, but it sure seems like
> > the Peloton is anything but one big happy family these days. Riders aren't
> > afraid to name names anymore (although only names that have already been
> > accused elsewhere), and it's getting to the point where you become either
> > incredibly cynical (and believe that everybody's doping, and the extreme
> > protestations otherwise are simply extreme inward denial) or that there
> > actually are a fair number of riders who race clean.
>
> > The sad thing is that those who are most-vocal about being clean themselves
> > also tend to be most-vocal in trashing Landis, not recognizing that what's
> > happening to Floyd might just as easily happen to them someday. Even if
> > there's only a 5% chance that Landis is actually clean, the other
> > (supposedly clean) cyclists should be calling for doping controls that
> > remove any possibility of doubt, and a system of determining guilt or
> > innocence that's much faster than what we have now. They don't seem to
> > realize that the dragging out of such a mess works entirely against the
> > rider, as the weight of time wears heavily on the riders' resources, not to
> > mention his body... while at the same time adding momentum to the idea that
> > he's guilty. But that's just me preaching.
>
> > The main thing I wonder is- are we seeing something relatively new, or have
> > riders been as strongly against other riders in the past?
>
> > --Mike Jacoubowsky
> > Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> Word!, Mike
> It's a huge mess with a riders "union" controlled, or at least
> incredibly heavily influenced by the UCI. Company stooges more
> concerned with keeping the gravy train rolling than fighting for fair,
> objective, honest, unbiased treatment killing everyone who raises
> questions.
> Bad for the commercial sport, and totally counterproductive.
> Bill C
It kind of reminds me of the Saturday Night Live News where they would
quote the UCI as saying: "At least we're better than soccer."
-ilan
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 09:32:20
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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ilan wrote:
> It kind of reminds me of the Saturday Night Live News where they would
> quote the UCI as saying: "At least we're better than soccer."
At least the Italian cycling tifosi haven't got around to throwing
explosives into police cars.
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Date: 05 Feb 2007 16:39:31
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Wiggins, Voight, Jaksche, Landis... cracks in the dam?
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On Feb 5, 7:32 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com > wrote:
> Maybe it was always like this, and I don't remember, but it sure seems like
> the Peloton is anything but one big happy family these days. Riders aren't
> afraid to name names anymore (although only names that have already been
> accused elsewhere), and it's getting to the point where you become either
> incredibly cynical (and believe that everybody's doping, and the extreme
> protestations otherwise are simply extreme inward denial) or that there
> actually are a fair number of riders who race clean.
>
> The sad thing is that those who are most-vocal about being clean themselves
> also tend to be most-vocal in trashing Landis, not recognizing that what's
> happening to Floyd might just as easily happen to them someday. Even if
> there's only a 5% chance that Landis is actually clean, the other
> (supposedly clean) cyclists should be calling for doping controls that
> remove any possibility of doubt, and a system of determining guilt or
> innocence that's much faster than what we have now. They don't seem to
> realize that the dragging out of such a mess works entirely against the
> rider, as the weight of time wears heavily on the riders' resources, not to
> mention his body... while at the same time adding momentum to the idea that
> he's guilty. But that's just me preaching.
>
> The main thing I wonder is- are we seeing something relatively new, or have
> riders been as strongly against other riders in the past?
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Word!, Mike
It's a huge mess with a riders "union" controlled, or at least
incredibly heavily influenced by the UCI. Company stooges more
concerned with keeping the gravy train rolling than fighting for fair,
objective, honest, unbiased treatment killing everyone who raises
questions.
Bad for the commercial sport, and totally counterproductive.
Bill C
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