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Main
Date: 24 May 2007 07:04:21
From: Jason Spaceman
Subject: Zabel confesses too
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From the article:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 More Ex-Telekom Riders Admit to Doping
By NESHA STARCEVIC
The Associated Press
Thursday, May 24, 2007; 6:34 AM
FRANKFURT, Germany -- Eric Zabel and Rolf Aldag, former teammates of
two Tour de France winners, admitted Thursday that they took
performance-enhancing drugs while riding for the Telekom team in the
1990s.
Speaking at a nationally televised news conference, both said they
took EPO. Both apologized and Zabel broke into tears during his
confession.
Aldag is now sporting director of the T-Mobile team, previously known
as Telekom. Zabel, a prominent sprinter, now rides for Milram.
Both were on the Telekom team when its riders won the Tour de France _
Bjarne Riis in 1996 and Jan Ullrich in 1997.
Aldag said he first took the blood booster EPO before the Tour in
1995, while Zabel said he took it in 1996.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/24/AR2007052400421.html
J. Spaceman
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Date: 24 May 2007 13:50:45
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On May 24, 3:58 pm, Simon Brooke <s...@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
> I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
> using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
> achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
> other.
no one's asking about your moral distinction. one is against the rules
and the other is not.
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Date: 24 May 2007 09:57:43
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On May 24, 11:44 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:
> Why should they have said anything? Please use all the words you need to present
> the argument.
>
do you mean zabel and aldag ? when the docs came forward aldag had to
face the question since he's a DS on the team which is supposedly the
clean team after their housecleaning last year.
his bosses don't need a court case and "beyond a reasonable doubt",
they can evaluate the evidence themselves. he can dodge the public,
but he can't dodge his bosses.
zabel wasn't under as much pressure, but just like puerto, eventually
someone would cave and it opens the door for more to come forward.
> >is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
> >houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
> >schmoe ? i doubt it.
>
> To whom do you suppose he should give anything back?
the concept was meant to be rhetorical.
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Date: 24 May 2007 22:22:38
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On 24 May 2007 09:57:43 -0700, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com >
wrote:
>On May 24, 11:44 am, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Why should they have said anything? Please use all the words you need to present
>> the argument.
>>
>
>do you mean zabel and aldag ? when the docs came forward aldag had to
>face the question since he's a DS on the team which is supposedly the
>clean team after their housecleaning last year.
>
>his bosses don't need a court case and "beyond a reasonable doubt",
>they can evaluate the evidence themselves. he can dodge the public,
>but he can't dodge his bosses.
>
>zabel wasn't under as much pressure, but just like puerto, eventually
>someone would cave and it opens the door for more to come forward.
No, I mean why should they have said anything before. As far as they know, or
have ever known, this is how cycling is done. You dope, you train and you don't
tell anyone how you got faster than them. That's how it's been since 1890 or so.
I know, I may be exaggerating for effect. But not everyone looks at it in moral
terms. You take vitamins and whatever else your knowledge and trainers find
helps. Is icing down after training immoral, it artificially helps recovery. So
does HGH.
True, one is against the rules and the other isn't. That's not the same as
immoral.
Ron
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Date: 24 May 2007 09:36:59
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On May 24, 11:24 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> > i don't see the same outpouring for the team docs, guys like lemond or
> > the soigneur who precipitated this series of events.
>
> You must not read very many messages.
the typical sentiment about guys like lemond, manzano, decanio, this
soigneur is theat they are attention seekers and opportunists seeking
to profit.
> > is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
> > houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
> > schmoe ? i doubt it.
>
> Envy is hard to hide, isn't it ?
i make no bones about it. i'd like to be as rich or as admired as
zabel. we all have possible ways to deceive to achive what we could
not otherwise. but i also don't want to be giving teary eyed
confessions about my past conduct either.
In a larger picture, in canada riders, coaches, the gov. body are
critisized for the lack of international results (jeanson aside). when
the belgian and russian riders were laid to waste the cdn riders, and
we're left questioning, are we really so backward in our methods ?
even though our coaches like landry and barras are being hired away by
other countries. in europe everyone mocks he french riders because
they can't get a result in any of their big races.
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Date: 24 May 2007 13:04:00
From: Doug Taylor
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On 24 May 2007 09:36:59 -0700, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com"
<amit.ghosh@gmail.com > wrote:
>In a larger picture, in canada riders, coaches, the gov. body are
>critisized for the lack of international results (jeanson aside).
But look at Canadian results in other endurance sports such as World
Cup x-c skiing and speed skating.
I think particularly of Beckie Scott who went from Bronze to Gold in
Salt Lake 2002, when the original 1st and 2nd were dq'd for using
Darbepoetin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beckie_Scott
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Date: 24 May 2007 13:15:13
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:04:00 -0400, Doug Taylor
<dtaylor@dreamscape.com > wrote:
>On 24 May 2007 09:36:59 -0700, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com"
><amit.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>In a larger picture, in canada riders, coaches, the gov. body are
>>critisized for the lack of international results (jeanson aside).
>
>But look at Canadian results in other endurance sports such as World
>Cup x-c skiing and speed skating.
>
>I think particularly of Beckie Scott who went from Bronze to Gold in
>Salt Lake 2002, when the original 1st and 2nd were dq'd for using
>Darbepoetin.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beckie_Scott
Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.
PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 24 May 2007 20:58:57
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
in message <orhb53dg8sn1kan0kcq412o009dqb09tsr@4ax.com >, John Forrest
Tomlinson ('usenetremove@jt10000.com') wrote:
> Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
> Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
> the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
> given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
> ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
> suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
> irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
> tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.
>
> PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
other.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]
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Date: 24 May 2007 22:17:27
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:58:57 +0100, Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
>in message <orhb53dg8sn1kan0kcq412o009dqb09tsr@4ax.com>, John Forrest
>Tomlinson ('usenetremove@jt10000.com') wrote:
>
>> Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
>> Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
>> the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
>> given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
>> ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
>> suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
>> irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
>> tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.
>>
>> PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
>
>I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
>using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
>achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
>other.
Is using a bus to commute from your living quarters to your training site also
artificial? If they are at different altitudes? At greater altitude differences
that you could ride without disrupting your training program?
Ron
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Date: 24 May 2007 20:06:01
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:58:57 +0100, Simon Brooke
<simon@jasmine.org.uk > wrote:
>in message <orhb53dg8sn1kan0kcq412o009dqb09tsr@4ax.com>, John Forrest
>Tomlinson ('usenetremove@jt10000.com') wrote:
>
>> Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
>> Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
>> the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
>> given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
>> ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
>> suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
>> irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
>> tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.
>>
>> PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
>
>I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
>using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
>achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
>other.
Cheating means breaking rules. There was no rule against altitude
tents.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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Date: 24 May 2007 14:11:00
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
<usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:
>PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
>--
>JT
I've heard that one of those amplifies the effect of drinking. Does it
serve any other purpose?
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 25 May 2007 08:34:57
From: Stu Fleming
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
> <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
>> PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
>> --
>> JT
>
> I've heard that one of those amplifies the effect of drinking. Does it
> serve any other purpose?
What is the result of:
PS
-- = ?
JT
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Date: 24 May 2007 18:48:18
From: William Asher
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
> <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:
>
>>PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
>>--
>>JT
>
> I've heard that one of those amplifies the effect of drinking. Does it
> serve any other purpose?
One more layer of defense against a horny boyfriend.
--
Bill Asher
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Date: 24 May 2007 15:10:56
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On 24 May 2007 18:48:18 GMT, William Asher <gcnp58@yahoo.com > wrote:
>Curtis L. Russell wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
>> <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:
>>
>>>PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
>>>--
>>>JT
>>
>> I've heard that one of those amplifies the effect of drinking. Does it
>> serve any other purpose?
>
>One more layer of defense against a horny boyfriend.
Boyfriend was an Olympian too. He was "into it."
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
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| | |
Date: 24 May 2007 18:54:41
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
Dans le message de
news:1180024619.214214.268960@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
amit.ghosh@gmail.com <amit.ghosh@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On May 24, 11:24 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>
>>> i don't see the same outpouring for the team docs, guys like lemond
>>> or the soigneur who precipitated this series of events.
>>
>> You must not read very many messages.
>
> the typical sentiment about guys like lemond, manzano, decanio, this
> soigneur is theat they are attention seekers and opportunists seeking
> to profit.
Some writers enjoy voluminous and repetitive posts. You have never seen
that from me. If you have read my comments, you would have noticed nearly
an opposite trend.
>
>>> is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment
>>> which houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a
>>> $40,000/yr schmoe ? i doubt it.
>>
>> Envy is hard to hide, isn't it ?
>
> i make no bones about it. i'd like to be as rich or as admired as
> zabel. we all have possible ways to deceive to achive what we could
> not otherwise. but i also don't want to be giving teary eyed
> confessions about my past conduct either.
So, what have you done ? Bragging requires facts.
>
> In a larger picture, in canada riders, coaches, the gov. body are
> critisized for the lack of international results (jeanson aside). when
> the belgian and russian riders were laid to waste the cdn riders, and
> we're left questioning, are we really so backward in our methods ?
> even though our coaches like landry and barras are being hired away by
> other countries. in europe everyone mocks he french riders because
> they can't get a result in any of their big races.
A lot of fun has been made about the French "theory" of racing at two
speeds. Perhaps recent events will lessen how much ridicule it receives. I
recently remarked about two local riders, friends, who quit, having lost all
motivation due to the persistent suspicion of the public - the French
public.
You can make your points without being an ideologue and without
exaggeration, even if these are de rigueur in RBR. Solid thoughts and their
statement can stand the test of time and attack. Don't be tempted to answer
flames in kind.
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Date: 24 May 2007 08:01:42
From: amit.ghosh@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On May 24, 8:13 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
>
> > > J. Spaceman
>
> Thank you. Bravo to those who open up.
dumbasses,
the reaction on rbr to these admissions of guilt is nauseating.
i know for all the fanboys it is gratifying when a rbr man-crush zabel
gives you the truth, but it was only after the whole 90s team was
exposed (or in imminent danger of beng exposed) after this jef d'hont
book and subsequent confessions by the team docs.
i don't see the same outpouring for the team docs, guys like lemond or
the soigneur who precipitated this series of events.
it goes back to the whole mentality of handling athletes with kid
gloves, not holding them accountable and a willingness to forgive them
no matter how much they fuck up. we praise them for being honest, when
there really isn't another choice, but we don't extend the same to ex-
riders, docs or writers who really want a clean sport.
guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
things.
is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
schmoe ? i doubt it.
it may have been the climate of the sport at the time, but they had a
choice.
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Date: 24 May 2007 20:50:12
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
in message <1180018902.422339.106020@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >,
amit.ghosh@gmail.com ('amit.ghosh@gmail.com') wrote:
> guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
> and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
> things.
>
> is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
> houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
> schmoe ? i doubt it.
Millions? Out of bike racing?
Wrong sport, mate.
Armstrong made millions; everybody else only makes millions if you count it
in Lire. Half the pro peloton are scraping the legal minimum wage.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Perl ... is the Brittney Spears of programming - easily accessible
;; but, in the final analysis, empty of any significant thought
;; Frank Adrian on Slashdot, 21st July 2003
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Date: 24 May 2007 22:11:21
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
Dans le message de news:ks6hi4-10d.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk,
Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> in message <1180018902.422339.106020@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> amit.ghosh@gmail.com ('amit.ghosh@gmail.com') wrote:
>
>> guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
>> and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
>> things.
>>
>> is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
>> houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
>> schmoe ? i doubt it.
>
> Millions? Out of bike racing?
>
> Wrong sport, mate.
Zabel. Try again. An altitude tent will give you more cerebral oxygenation
ONLY if you leave it.
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Date: 24 May 2007 11:44:52
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On 24 May 2007 08:01:42 -0700, "amit.ghosh@gmail.com" <amit.ghosh@gmail.com >
wrote:
>On May 24, 8:13 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>
>>
>> > > J. Spaceman
>>
>> Thank you. Bravo to those who open up.
>
>dumbasses,
>
>the reaction on rbr to these admissions of guilt is nauseating.
>
>i know for all the fanboys it is gratifying when a rbr man-crush zabel
>gives you the truth, but it was only after the whole 90s team was
>exposed (or in imminent danger of beng exposed) after this jef d'hont
>book and subsequent confessions by the team docs.
Why should they have said anything? Please use all the words you need to present
the argument.
>i don't see the same outpouring for the team docs, guys like lemond or
>the soigneur who precipitated this series of events.
>
>it goes back to the whole mentality of handling athletes with kid
>gloves, not holding them accountable and a willingness to forgive them
>no matter how much they fuck up. we praise them for being honest, when
>there really isn't another choice, but we don't extend the same to ex-
>riders, docs or writers who really want a clean sport.
>
>guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
>and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
>things.
>
>is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
>houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
>schmoe ? i doubt it.
To whom do you suppose he should give anything back? The guys he raced against
who were using the same dope, or the guys who didn't even have enough talent to
be offered the dope.
>it may have been the climate of the sport at the time, but they had a
>choice.
feh!
Ron
Ron
Effect pedal demo's up at http://www.soundclick.com/ronsonicpedalry
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Date: 24 May 2007 17:24:24
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
Dans le message de
news:1180018902.422339.106020@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
amit.ghosh@gmail.com <amit.ghosh@gmail.com > a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On May 24, 8:13 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr> wrote:
>
>>
>>>> J. Spaceman
>>
>> Thank you. Bravo to those who open up.
>
> dumbasses,
>
> the reaction on rbr to these admissions of guilt is nauseating.
When you grow up, you'll understand.
>
> i don't see the same outpouring for the team docs, guys like lemond or
> the soigneur who precipitated this series of events.
You must not read very many messages.
>
> it goes back to the whole mentality of handling athletes with kid
> gloves, not holding them accountable and a willingness to forgive them
> no matter how much they fuck up. we praise them for being honest, when
> there really isn't another choice, but we don't extend the same to ex-
> riders, docs or writers who really want a clean sport.
Why do you want to limit this to sports ? I'm not. My reaction is to the
human situation, not to some tiny class.
>
> guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
> and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
> things.
OK - you get to prosecute the next case with your talents.
> is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
> houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
> schmoe ? i doubt it.
Envy is hard to hide, isn't it ?
> it may have been the climate of the sport at the time, but they had a
> choice.
They made bad ones, and now they are making better ones.
|
| |
Date: 24 May 2007 05:36:49
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On May 24, 8:13 am, "Sandy" <leu...@frree.fr > wrote:
> Dans le message denews:kkta53tnce974s9sr8rdbbofqr7v0drmrq@4ax.com,
> Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> a r=E9fl=E9chi, et pui=
s a
> d=E9clar=E9 :
>
> > Video of Zabel's confession is athttp://tinyurl.com/26kck6
>
> > Video of Aldag's confession is athttp://tinyurl.com/2e4d2v
>
> > Both require RealPlayer to view, and both are entirely in German. If
> > you wait for a few hours I wouldn't be surprised if the entire press
> > conference shows up on YouTube.
>
> > > J. Spaceman
>
> Thank you. Bravo to those who open up. Telling hurts, but not telling
> hurts even more. Bravo, also to Gerolsteiner and Telekom, for not
> dismissing persons who break the code of silence, and I can only hope the
> same is for Milram. Our main loss is the inability to say who, among all
> racers who say nothing, is a truly natural supertalent.
>
> The Sport is Dead. Long live the sport.
> --
> Bonne route !
>
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
Odo bolts too. From what's being said seems like they either did it or
were gone.
Bill C
|
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Date: 24 May 2007 04:39:21
From: billb
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
On May 24, 7:04 am, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org >
wrote:
> From the article:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD----
> 2 More Ex-Telekom Riders Admit to Doping
>
> By NESHA STARCEVIC
> The Associated Press
> Thursday, May 24, 2007; 6:34 AM
>
> FRANKFURT, Germany -- Eric Zabel and Rolf Aldag, former teammates of
> two Tour de France winners, admitted Thursday that they took
> performance-enhancing drugs while riding for the Telekom team in the
> 1990s.
>
> Speaking at a nationally televised news conference, both said they
> took EPO. Both apologized and Zabel broke into tears during his
> confession.
>
> Aldag is now sporting director of the T-Mobile team, previously known
> as Telekom. Zabel, a prominent sprinter, now rides for Milram.
>
> Both were on the Telekom team when its riders won the Tour de France _
> Bjarne Riis in 1996 and Jan Ullrich in 1997.
>
> Aldag said he first took the blood booster EPO before the Tour in
> 1995, while Zabel said he took it in 1996.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD------------
>
> Read it athttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/24=
/AR200...
>
> J. Spaceman
Where's Mr. Riis? Will he out himself, or wait for others to do it to/
for him?
Best,
Bill Black
|
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Date: 24 May 2007 07:31:36
From: Jason Spaceman
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
|
Video of Zabel's confession is at http://tinyurl.com/26kck6
Video of Aldag's confession is at http://tinyurl.com/2e4d2v
Both require RealPlayer to view, and both are entirely in German. If
you wait for a few hours I wouldn't be surprised if the entire press
conference shows up on YouTube.
J. Spaceman
|
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Date: 24 May 2007 14:13:12
From: Sandy
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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Dans le message de news:kkta53tnce974s9sr8rdbbofqr7v0drmrq@4ax.com,
Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org > a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> Video of Zabel's confession is at http://tinyurl.com/26kck6
>
> Video of Aldag's confession is at http://tinyurl.com/2e4d2v
>
> Both require RealPlayer to view, and both are entirely in German. If
> you wait for a few hours I wouldn't be surprised if the entire press
> conference shows up on YouTube.
>
>
> > J. Spaceman
Thank you. Bravo to those who open up. Telling hurts, but not telling
hurts even more. Bravo, also to Gerolsteiner and Telekom, for not
dismissing persons who break the code of silence, and I can only hope the
same is for Milram. Our main loss is the inability to say who, among all
racers who say nothing, is a truly natural supertalent.
The Sport is Dead. Long live the sport.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
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Date: 24 May 2007 10:09:14
From: RonSonic
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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On Thu, 24 May 2007 14:13:12 +0200, "Sandy" <leurre@frree.fr > wrote:
>Dans le message de news:kkta53tnce974s9sr8rdbbofqr7v0drmrq@4ax.com,
>Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> a réfléchi, et puis a
>déclaré :
>> Video of Zabel's confession is at http://tinyurl.com/26kck6
>>
>> Video of Aldag's confession is at http://tinyurl.com/2e4d2v
>>
>> Both require RealPlayer to view, and both are entirely in German. If
>> you wait for a few hours I wouldn't be surprised if the entire press
>> conference shows up on YouTube.
>>
>>
>> > J. Spaceman
>
>Thank you. Bravo to those who open up. Telling hurts, but not telling
>hurts even more.
Some things really are better not told - didn't Greg Lemond give us an example
of that.
I doubt that telling is going to help. If history is anything to go by the
officials will scream that this only proves the code of silence and that an
example should be made - these guys will have their palmares questioned, or
revoked, and everyone else will go on - happy they weren't dumb enough to talk
about it.
>Bravo, also to Gerolsteiner and Telekom, for not
>dismissing persons who break the code of silence, and I can only hope the
>same is for Milram. Our main loss is the inability to say who, among all
>racers who say nothing, is a truly natural supertalent.
Unless I am totally wrong, the truly natural supertalents were doping as well.
Joe Papp took all that crap and was still racing in Turkey.
I agree with you that the teams were right to not fire these guys, but we
haven't heard from UCI, ProTour, Prudhomme, or most important Pound, Dick yet.
They'll probably insist on dismissal. After all, having riders come out and
expose the doping would destroy the adversarial approach to PED enforcement and
without that it's impossible for Dick Pound to win. Can't win without an enemy
to defeat.
>The Sport is Dead. Long live the sport.
Well, we'll all keep riding anyway....
Ron
Ron
Effect pedal demo's up at http://www.soundclick.com/ronsonicpedalry
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Date: 24 May 2007 09:06:55
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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Sandy wrote:
> Thank you. Bravo to those who open up. Telling hurts, but not telling
> hurts even more. Bravo, also to Gerolsteiner and Telekom, for not
> dismissing persons who break the code of silence, and I can only hope the
> same is for Milram. Our main loss is the inability to say who, among all
> racers who say nothing, is a truly natural supertalent.
>
> The Sport is Dead. Long live the sport.
Why am I the only one to notice that he hasn't opened up?
Are we to believe that this was all in the past, nothing
in the present?
People have commented in the past about how unreasonable
the length of season he's been riding was. I guess aside
from those few instances in the distant past he's been a
supertalent.
Bob Schwartz
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Date: 24 May 2007 17:36:41
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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On Thu, 24 May 2007 09:06:55 -0500, Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Why am I the only one to notice that he hasn't opened up?
Zabel? You mean more than: [summarized translation] "I tried it during
the first week of the Tour 1996. I wanted to try it out but it was
just this once. Jef and I decided I should stop when I noticed I
overheated."
--
E. Dronkert
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Date: 24 May 2007 12:00:49
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 09:06:55 -0500, Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> Why am I the only one to notice that he hasn't opened up?
>
> Zabel? You mean more than: [summarized translation] "I tried it during
> the first week of the Tour 1996. I wanted to try it out but it was
> just this once. Jef and I decided I should stop when I noticed I
> overheated."
Yeah. How about when he was winning Milan-San Remo in March, taking
the Green jersey in July, winning the World Cup, and then riding
six days? I guess that was all mineral water.
Telekom rode the 1995 Tour as a combination team with 5 riders. In
1996 and 1997 they were the top team in the sport. No shit there
was institutionalized doping.
People are comfortable with all sorts of doping. They just don't
want to know about it.
Bob Schwartz
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Date: 24 May 2007 20:43:09
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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In article <axj5i.2782$u56.1991@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net >,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net > wrote:
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 May 2007 09:06:55 -0500, Bob Schwartz wrote:
> >> Why am I the only one to notice that he hasn't opened up?
> >
> > Zabel? You mean more than: [summarized translation] "I tried it during
> > the first week of the Tour 1996. I wanted to try it out but it was
> > just this once. Jef and I decided I should stop when I noticed I
> > overheated."
>
> Yeah. How about when he was winning Milan-San Remo in March, taking
> the Green jersey in July, winning the World Cup, and then riding
> six days? I guess that was all mineral water.
>
> Telekom rode the 1995 Tour as a combination team with 5 riders. In
> 1996 and 1997 they were the top team in the sport. No shit there
> was institutionalized doping.
>
> People are comfortable with all sorts of doping. They just don't
> want to know about it.
I do not not want to know about it.
I prefer that after a few years we close the books.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 24 May 2007 14:12:19
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: Zabel confesses too
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Sandy wrote:
> The Sport is Dead. Long live the sport.
Vive le Sport!!
;-)
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