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Main
Date: 16 Feb 2007 21:15:47
From: Crescentius Vespasianus
Subject: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory serves me
right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is the
poor man's sport.
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 15:10:22
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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On Feb 18, 12:25 pm, Dan Gregory
<dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk > wrote:
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > The French have much to be proud of in these areas, but
> > did you know there is no French word for "sarcasm"?
> > That's why they're so damn serious all the time.
>
> Sorry mate it's just that English spells "sarcasme" wrong.
> However "le mot impossible n'existe pas en francais....
> Bonne Route
> Dan Gregory
Here lies Irony, born in Greece, died in RBR Feb 18 2007;
requiescat in pacem.
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 16:56:34
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> Here lies Irony, born in Greece, died in RBR Feb 18 2007;
> requiescat in pacem.
Tragic, Irony died before its time.
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Date: 19 Feb 2007 19:11:13
From: Howard Kveck
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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In article <1171926622.347001.100500@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"bjw@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org > wrote:
> On Feb 18, 12:25 pm, Dan Gregory
> <dangreg...@brakes.palaver.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > > The French have much to be proud of in these areas, but
> > > did you know there is no French word for "sarcasm"?
> > > That's why they're so damn serious all the time.
> >
> > Sorry mate it's just that English spells "sarcasme" wrong.
> > However "le mot impossible n'existe pas en francais....
> > Bonne Route
> > Dan Gregory
>
> Here lies Irony, born in Greece, died in RBR Feb 18 2007;
> requiescat in pacem.
A slow, painful death, at that.
--
tanx,
Howard
Never take a tenant with a monkey.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 09:11:30
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:11:13 -0800, Howard Kveck
<YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com > wrote:
>> Here lies Irony, born in Greece, died in RBR Feb 18 2007;
>> requiescat in pacem.
>
> A slow, painful death, at that.
Irony has died here so often, I'm beginning to think all it does is
lie down and take a vacation.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 20 Feb 2007 16:37:36
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Irony has died here so often, I'm beginning to think all it does is
> lie down and take a vacation.
Irony must have bad karma to keep getting reincarnated in rbr.
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 09:53:02
From: Andre
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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On Feb 18, 1:34 am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org >
wrote:
> On Feb 17, 9:14 pm, "Steven C." <h90...@hotmail.commie> wrote:
>
> > > Yeah it's nice to see that the French have failed miserably to
> > > contribute to science, philosophy, literature, military science,
> > > government, music, architecture...Damn I'm running out of areas the
> > > French have failed miserably in.
> > > Damn shallow, no talent, thinkers!
> > > Bill C
>
> > You come across as not being well-read. The French have made great
> > contributions in all of those areas. Well, the military science contribution
> > is a bit old now.
>
> The French have much to be proud of in these areas, but
> did you know there is no French word for "sarcasm"?
> That's why they're so damn serious all the time.
>
> Ben
"Sarcasme" Late Latin or French origin.
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 07:33:40
From: Andre
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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On Feb 17, 6:01 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Andre" <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
>
> news:1171740842.821088.312830@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 1:31 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory
> >> > serves me
> >> > right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is
> >> > the
> >> > poor man's sport.
>
> >> Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
> >> poker players around that the
> >> old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
> >> get on small invitational
> >> tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
> >> some of them at the
> >> world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
> >> such shows. My impression
> >> is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
> >> sites and TV commentating.
>
> >> The problem is that the number of
> >> entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
> >> any one player has a negligible chance of winning
> >> the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
> >> continually bet all his chips on
> >> a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
> >> stream of players betting all their
> >> chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
> >> favorable hands in a row becomes
> >> very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
> >> eventual winner was trailing a few times
> >> in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
> >> number of times.
>
> >> You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
> >> more) were internet players and
> >> even first year players.
>
> >> On the other hand, most players lose.
>
> >> -ilan
>
> > You watch people play cards on TV?
>
> The French are like sooooo intellectual. Ilan notwithstanding of course.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Belgian, not French....and what have you Chinese done lately?
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 22:34:19
From: bjw@mambo.ucolick.org
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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On Feb 17, 9:14 pm, "Steven C." <h90...@hotmail.commie > wrote:
> > Yeah it's nice to see that the French have failed miserably to
> > contribute to science, philosophy, literature, military science,
> > government, music, architecture...Damn I'm running out of areas the
> > French have failed miserably in.
> > Damn shallow, no talent, thinkers!
> > Bill C
>
> You come across as not being well-read. The French have made great
> contributions in all of those areas. Well, the military science contribution
> is a bit old now.
The French have much to be proud of in these areas, but
did you know there is no French word for "sarcasm"?
That's why they're so damn serious all the time.
Ben
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 19:25:30
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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bjw@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> The French have much to be proud of in these areas, but
> did you know there is no French word for "sarcasm"?
> That's why they're so damn serious all the time.
Sorry mate it's just that English spells "sarcasme" wrong.
However "le mot impossible n'existe pas en francais....
Bonne Route
Dan Gregory
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 16:01:04
From: ilan
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Feb 18, 12:01 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Andre" <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
>
> news:1171740842.821088.312830@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 1:31 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory
> >> > serves me
> >> > right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is
> >> > the
> >> > poor man's sport.
>
> >> Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
> >> poker players around that the
> >> old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
> >> get on small invitational
> >> tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
> >> some of them at the
> >> world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
> >> such shows. My impression
> >> is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
> >> sites and TV commentating.
>
> >> The problem is that the number of
> >> entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
> >> any one player has a negligible chance of winning
> >> the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
> >> continually bet all his chips on
> >> a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
> >> stream of players betting all their
> >> chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
> >> favorable hands in a row becomes
> >> very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
> >> eventual winner was trailing a few times
> >> in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
> >> number of times.
>
> >> You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
> >> more) were internet players and
> >> even first year players.
>
> >> On the other hand, most players lose.
>
> >> -ilan
>
> > You watch people play cards on TV?
>
> The French are like sooooo intellectual. Ilan notwithstanding of course.
Amazingly, there is French movie actor and pop singer Patrick Bruel
who has won a World Series of Poker event.
Of course, in France, he is incorrectly referred to as a former World
Champion of poker (everywhere else this term is used only
for the winner of the final no limit hold `em tournament, however, he
did make it to the final table of that tournament). Bruel won the Pot
Limit Omaha tournament. Bruel is probably the most successful
celebrity in poker. As I said above, he now makes money by
commentating poker on French TV, he has his own puppet on the TV
program "Les Guignols de l'Info" in which they show him
continually trying to hitchhike to the taping of the show because he
lost all his money playing real poker.
-ilan
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 10:52:33
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
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ilan wrote:
> Amazingly, there is French movie actor and pop singer Patrick Bruel
> who has won a World Series of Poker event.
But was he super-motivated ?
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 15:32:18
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Feb 17, 6:01 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Andre" <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
>
> news:1171740842.821088.312830@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 1:31 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory
> >> > serves me
> >> > right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is
> >> > the
> >> > poor man's sport.
>
> >> Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
> >> poker players around that the
> >> old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
> >> get on small invitational
> >> tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
> >> some of them at the
> >> world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
> >> such shows. My impression
> >> is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
> >> sites and TV commentating.
>
> >> The problem is that the number of
> >> entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
> >> any one player has a negligible chance of winning
> >> the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
> >> continually bet all his chips on
> >> a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
> >> stream of players betting all their
> >> chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
> >> favorable hands in a row becomes
> >> very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
> >> eventual winner was trailing a few times
> >> in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
> >> number of times.
>
> >> You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
> >> more) were internet players and
> >> even first year players.
>
> >> On the other hand, most players lose.
>
> >> -ilan
>
> > You watch people play cards on TV?
>
> The French are like sooooo intellectual. Ilan notwithstanding of course.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah it's nice to see that the French have failed miserably to
contribute to science, philosophy, literature, military science,
government, music, architecture...Damn I'm running out of areas the
French have failed miserably in.
Damn shallow, no talent, thinkers!
Bill C
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 23:14:42
From: Steven C.
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
>
> Yeah it's nice to see that the French have failed miserably to
> contribute to science, philosophy, literature, military science,
> government, music, architecture...Damn I'm running out of areas the
> French have failed miserably in.
> Damn shallow, no talent, thinkers!
> Bill C
>
You come across as not being well-read. The French have made great
contributions in all of those areas. Well, the military science contribution
is a bit old now.
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Date: 18 Feb 2007 18:18:39
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 23:14:42 -0500, "Steven C."
<h90943@hotmail.commie > wrote:
>You come across as not being well-read. The French have made great
>contributions in all of those areas. Well, the military science contribution
>is a bit old now.
And Napoleon said Frederick the Great would have kicked his ass, more
or less.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 18:59:46
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
In article
<1171755138.454206.324280@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com >
,
"Bill C" <tritonrider@verizon.net > wrote:
> On Feb 17, 6:01 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Andre" <ANDREJANSSE...@YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1171740842.821088.312830@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 17, 1:31 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> >
> > >> > Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory
> > >> > serves me
> > >> > right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is
> > >> > the
> > >> > poor man's sport.
> >
> > >> Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
> > >> poker players around that the
> > >> old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
> > >> get on small invitational
> > >> tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
> > >> some of them at the
> > >> world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
> > >> such shows. My impression
> > >> is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
> > >> sites and TV commentating.
> >
> > >> The problem is that the number of
> > >> entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
> > >> any one player has a negligible chance of winning
> > >> the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
> > >> continually bet all his chips on
> > >> a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
> > >> stream of players betting all their
> > >> chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
> > >> favorable hands in a row becomes
> > >> very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
> > >> eventual winner was trailing a few times
> > >> in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
> > >> number of times.
> >
> > >> You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
> > >> more) were internet players and
> > >> even first year players.
> >
> > >> On the other hand, most players lose.
> >
> > >> -ilan
> >
> > > You watch people play cards on TV?
> >
> > The French are like sooooo intellectual. Ilan notwithstanding of course.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yeah it's nice to see that the French have failed miserably to
> contribute to science, philosophy, literature, military science,
> government, music, architecture...Damn I'm running out of areas the
> French have failed miserably in.
> Damn shallow, no talent, thinkers!
Serre
Poincaré
Fourier
Galois
Fermat
and, of course, the founder of probability theory
Pierre Simon Laplace.
--
Michael Press
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 23:53:35
From: Dan Gregory
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
Bill C wrote:
> Yeah it's nice to see that the French have failed miserably to
> contribute to science, philosophy, literature, military science,
> government, music, architecture...Damn I'm running out of areas the
> French have failed miserably in.
> Damn shallow, no talent, thinkers!
Poetry?
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 11:34:02
From: Andre
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Feb 17, 1:31 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory serves me
> > right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is the
> > poor man's sport.
>
> Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
> poker players around that the
> old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
> get on small invitational
> tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
> some of them at the
> world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
> such shows. My impression
> is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
> sites and TV commentating.
>
> The problem is that the number of
> entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
> any one player has a negligible chance of winning
> the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
> continually bet all his chips on
> a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
> stream of players betting all their
> chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
> favorable hands in a row becomes
> very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
> eventual winner was trailing a few times
> in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
> number of times.
>
> You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
> more) were internet players and
> even first year players.
>
> On the other hand, most players lose.
>
> -ilan
You watch people play cards on TV?
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 23:01:14
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
"Andre" <ANDREJANSSENS1@YAHOO.COM > wrote in message
news:1171740842.821088.312830@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 17, 1:31 pm, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory
>> > serves me
>> > right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is
>> > the
>> > poor man's sport.
>>
>> Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
>> poker players around that the
>> old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
>> get on small invitational
>> tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
>> some of them at the
>> world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
>> such shows. My impression
>> is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
>> sites and TV commentating.
>>
>> The problem is that the number of
>> entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
>> any one player has a negligible chance of winning
>> the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
>> continually bet all his chips on
>> a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
>> stream of players betting all their
>> chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
>> favorable hands in a row becomes
>> very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
>> eventual winner was trailing a few times
>> in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
>> number of times.
>>
>> You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
>> more) were internet players and
>> even first year players.
>>
>> On the other hand, most players lose.
>>
>> -ilan
>
> You watch people play cards on TV?
The French are like sooooo intellectual. Ilan notwithstanding of course.
|
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 10:31:21
From:
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Feb 16, 10:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory serves me
> right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is the
> poor man's sport.
Most accessible is professional poker. There are now so many good
poker players around that the
old pros have to ham it up on TV and become personalities in order to
get on small invitational
tournaments where they are guaranteed to make big money. I've watched
some of them at the
world series of poker, and it was clear that they were auditioning for
such shows. My impression
is that they are making more money from sponsorship of online poker
sites and TV commentating.
The problem is that the number of
entries in tournaments like the world series of poker is so large that
any one player has a negligible chance of winning
the whole thing. The reason is that if a player is down, then he will
continually bet all his chips on
a low probability hand. Thus, any leading player will be faced with a
stream of players betting all their
chips with mediocre hands, and the probability of losing a number of
favorable hands in a row becomes
very high. This can be observed in the 2005 event in which the
eventual winner was trailing a few times
in the last couple of rounds, and managed to luckily double up a
number of times.
You could also note that a number of big money winners (50,000$ and
more) were internet players and
even first year players.
On the other hand, most players lose.
-ilan
|
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 05:37:31
From: Mark
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
On Feb 16, 4:15 pm, "Crescentius Vespasianus" <jazzyb...@hotmail.com >
wrote:
> Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory serves me
> right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money.
Pro bowling is not a way to make a decent living over time for all but
the top 5-10 players in the world. Here is a link to the money
earnings for the current season:
http://www.pba.com/stats/ytdstats.asp?Tour=1&Stype=Earnings
Note that the leader has bowled 14 events and has earned $140,000 so
far. That includes at least one tournament victory, maybe two. He'll
probably make about 160K for the year. 160K may sound decent but when
you factor in the costs of actually being on tour for a full season
and average out earnings over several years and it doesn't work out as
a sole source of income. Take home is it's not worth it for all but a
handful of guys who can stay at the top and land supplemental
contracts with equipment sponsors.
If you look down past the top ten the guys in 20-30 are barely making
enough to justify the expense and time of being on tour. In fact, the
PBA itself is very close to being a non-viable enterprise and could
very well dissapear.
As an aside, you'll hear about bowling pros who have earned over a
million dollars in winnings. What is not said is the time it took to
get there - often 15-20 years.
While cycling is not golf, a reasonable number of professionals can
make a decent living and there are lower catagories where one can
pursue the dream and still eat reasonably.
For the equipment junkies out there -- note that a good amateur bowler
will go through 10 or more bowling balls a year (the new balls
actually wear out rather rapidly). These balls now cost between
$150-300 each. A tour pro will have access to much cheaper pricing and
go through probably 50-100 balls a season. Makes top end tubular
tires look like a bargain :-)
k
|
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Date: 17 Feb 2007 09:45:45
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: is cycling the poor man's pro sport.
|
Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> Compared to golf, pro cyclists compete for pennies. If memory serves me
> right, even the pro-bowlers tours has more prize money. Pro-cycling is the
> poor man's sport.
Not if you're a fatty master upgrading his equipment every year. And the
veterinary bill keeps going up each year too.
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|
