wind cancels race

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Date: 08 Mar 2007 11:36:04
From: bjorn
Subject: wind cancels race

I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
happened due to wind before?

http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml

bjorn
www.procyclingpress.com

Date: 10 Mar 2007 10:01:16
From: e-RICHIE
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 9, 11:01 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1173450586.638716.122...@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> "e-RICHIE" <richardsa...@juno.com> wrote:
> > On 9, 3:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:

> > > I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerkRichard
> > > Sachs...
>
> > wtf did i do to get under your skin?
> > e-RICHIE???
>
> I'm just mad you don't make carbon fibre bikes that cost $300/frame in
> quantities of 10.
>
> I'm virtually certain you know I'm kidding. But on the 1% chance that my
> sarcasm was too inept, I should say I was kidding, and just using you as
> an example of a small shop with even scarcer, pricier frames than
> Rivendell...
>
> "A signed order form along with a $400, non-refundable and
> non-transferable deposit is due to confirm your order.
>
> This deposit secures your position on the wait list. Due to the current
> lead time, I cannot quote a final sales price. The current base price
> for frames now being delivered is $3400. Once a place in line is secured
> with a deposit, no further monies are due until frames and bicycles are
> assembled."
>
> I mean, seriously, you know demand is high when you can ask for those
> kinds of terms. (And I think Cyclingnews just quoted a 4-year waiting
> list for a Sachs bike).
>
> And I swear I'm not going to do anything rude like make a Noka
> Chocolates joke.
>
> Hm. Let's look at my to-do list:
>
> 1) prepare bike for race on Saturday
> 2) revise club website
> 3) help buddy with child-size CX project
> 4) annoy one of the most talented and famous framebuilders on the planet
>
> Done. It's Bailey's time!
>
> Because Sacha White doesn't read rbr,
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quot=
ed text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

no worries ryan -
i was kidding back at. wrt my terms of business page, i mined
most of it from a fellow who's turned out to be a bit of a muse:
http://walkerguitars.com/ordering.htm

but back to the issue at hand, from what i read here:
http://www.sprout.nl/column.jsp?id=3D442207
(scroll down to "PASSION"), the author says,
"=2E..my guess he's earning a half million dollars per year...".

so. there ya' have it. it's online, so it must be true atmo.
e-RICHIE=A9=99=AE

Date: 11 Mar 2007 00:11:56
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

e-RICHIE wrote:
> On 9, 11:01 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>> In article <1173450586.638716.122...@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> "e-RICHIE" <richardsa...@juno.com> wrote:
>>> On 9, 3:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>>>> I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerkRichard
>>>> Sachs...
>>> wtf did i do to get under your skin?
>>> e-RICHIE???
>> I'm just mad you don't make carbon fibre bikes that cost $300/frame in
>> quantities of 10.
>>
>> I'm virtually certain you know I'm kidding. But on the 1% chance that my
>> sarcasm was too inept, I should say I was kidding, and just using you as
>> an example of a small shop with even scarcer, pricier frames than
>> Rivendell...
>>
>> "A signed order form along with a $400, non-refundable and
>> non-transferable deposit is due to confirm your order.
>>
>> This deposit secures your position on the wait list. Due to the current
>> lead time, I cannot quote a final sales price. The current base price
>> for frames now being delivered is $3400. Once a place in line is secured
>> with a deposit, no further monies are due until frames and bicycles are
>> assembled."
>>
>> I mean, seriously, you know demand is high when you can ask for those
>> kinds of terms. (And I think Cyclingnews just quoted a 4-year waiting
>> list for a Sachs bike).
>>
>> And I swear I'm not going to do anything rude like make a Noka
>> Chocolates joke.
>>
>> Hm. Let's look at my to-do list:
>>
>> 1) prepare bike for race on Saturday
>> 2) revise club website
>> 3) help buddy with child-size CX project
>> 4) annoy one of the most talented and famous framebuilders on the planet
>>
>> Done. It's Bailey's time!
>>
>> Because Sacha White doesn't read rbr,
>>
>> --
>> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
>> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
>> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>
> no worries ryan -
> i was kidding back at. wrt my terms of business page, i mined
> most of it from a fellow who's turned out to be a bit of a muse:
> http://walkerguitars.com/ordering.htm

Some pretty damned gorgeous guitars--esp. the archtops. Surprised I
haven't heard more of him.

Steve

>
> but back to the issue at hand, from what i read here:
> http://www.sprout.nl/column.jsp?id=442207
> (scroll down to "PASSION"), the author says,
> "...my guess he's earning a half million dollars per year...".
>
> so. there ya' have it. it's online, so it must be true atmo.
> e-RICHIE©™®
>
>

Date: 10 Mar 2007 22:24:29
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

"e-RICHIE" <richardsachs@juno.com > wrote in message
news:1173549675.885521.192050@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
On 9, 11:01 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
>
> but back to the issue at hand, from what i read here:
> http://www.sprout.nl/column.jsp?id=442207
> (scroll down to "PASSION"), the author says,
> "...my guess he's earning a half million dollars per year...".
>
> so. there ya' have it. it's online, so it must be true atmo.
> e-RICHIE©T®

I wonder if anyone would bother to notice how much money he would have to
make off of each frame to garner an income like that from his business? I've
always thought that Richard was really out-standing for actually sponsoring
some cyclocross racers. But then, having worked in the motorcycle business
back when their income was about the same as a good bicycle business does
these days I'm aware of just how close the profit gins really are.

Date: 11 Mar 2007 09:43:01
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

In article <xeGIh.11279$tD2.6286@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> "e-RICHIE" <richardsachs@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:1173549675.885521.192050@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> On 9, 11:01 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > but back to the issue at hand, from what i read here:
> > http://www.sprout.nl/column.jsp?id=442207
> > (scroll down to "PASSION"), the author says,
> > "...my guess he's earning a half million dollars per year...".
> >
> > so. there ya' have it. it's online, so it must be true atmo.
> > e-RICHIE©T®
>
> I wonder if anyone would bother to notice how much money he would have to
> make off of each frame to garner an income like that from his business? I've
> always thought that Richard was really out-standing for actually sponsoring
> some cyclocross racers. But then, having worked in the motorcycle business
> back when their income was about the same as a good bicycle business does
> these days I'm aware of just how close the profit gins really are.

Well, I totally intend to spread the legend of e-RICHIE's vast money
vaults far and wide, but let's check that Sprout column.

Assuming the article's 2 frames/week is correct, let's just go and guess
that it's about 100 frames per year (in my model, Richie gets two weeks
off). The website says the starting price is $3400 for a frame now.

Now in fairness, to the Sprout guy, I bet that Richard makes just about
the best profit gins the frame-making business has to offer. I'm
guessing that because he can't make it up on volume, and because, well,
he has a two-year backlog of demand to help him when it comes time to
set prices.

I may be wrong.

I'm not gonna push out any explicit figures here, since it gets
embarrassingly close to asking Mr. Sachs what he makes, and my momma
raised me better than that. But note that the Sprout estimated earnings
seem to assume that Sachs Bikes makes about as much money out of the
Sachstoys catalog as it does out of building bikes.

This is actually a reasonable revenue model! As the biz thingy pointed
out, that's roughly the business model of Rivendell. Harley-Davidson is
another organization that is substantially floated by its merchandising
and accessories business.

No, seriously. I bet the ginal value for Richard Sachs Cycles is to
leverage the brand value by making more cool RICHIE-ISSIMO t-shirt
designs. The trick is to do that while making sure that the core product
that adds value to the brand (the, er, bike frames) is still kept in top
shape (in other words, you have to keep Richard in the shop building
frames at just the right rate and quality level).

Also, for obvious reasons, I'd like to propose a private-label Sachs
beer.

Having solved all of Richie's business problems, I will next suggest
some new frame geometry angles and some great ideas on brazing
techniques.

Knowledge just gets in the way of a good consultant,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Date: 11 Mar 2007 11:58:04
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Now in fairness, to the Sprout guy, I bet that Richard makes just about
> the best profit gins the frame-making business has to offer. I'm
> guessing that because he can't make it up on volume, and because, well,
> he has a two-year backlog of demand to help him when it comes time to
> set prices.

You mean he's going to be sponsoring the LIVEDRUNK pro-tour team ?

Date: 09 Mar 2007 15:05:17
From: Bill C
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 9, 9:13 am, "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com > wrote:
> On 9, 3:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php
>
> > In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
> > customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerk
> > Richard Sachs...
>
> > I think that biztactics interpretation of the Rivendell business model
> > is a bit tendentious.
>
> > I'm not in the ket for a Rivendell (my biggest objection being that,
> > well, I bought a 20-year-old steel Miyata tourer last year, and it only
> > cost $20), but I do understand what is in it for the buyers. And it's
> > not just scarcity.
>
> > Actually, that biztactics stuff is pretty interesting.
>
> I didn't poke around on the biztactics site. I just ran across the
> article on Rivendell and thought, as you noted, that it was a very
> slanted view. Frankly, I don't know enough about Rivendell to know
> how they stoke demand. The first couple of paragraphs contain enough
> inanity to pretty much dismiss the author's viewpoint. A $1300
> bike?! Omigawd!!!
>
> I'm surprised you think Richard Sachs is a jerk... {ducking} ;)
>
> R- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Richie's a real agitator.
Bill C

Date: 10 Mar 2007 01:48:54
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

Bill C wrote:
> Richie's a real agitator.

I wonder if that's where Obree got the idea to use washing
machine parts to build bikes.

Bob Schwartz

Date: 09 Mar 2007 06:48:34
From: e-RICHIE
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 9, 9:36 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >> In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
> >> customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerkRi=
chard Sachs...
> e-RICHIE wrote:
> > wtf did i do to get under your skin?
>
> You sold him a re-badged Bianchi with a EU warranty ?

that was in college and we were half in the bag.
statute of limitations, and all that...
e-RICHIE=A9=99=AE

Date: 09 Mar 2007 06:29:46
From: e-RICHIE
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 9, 3:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> In article <1173419916.213527.162...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > On 8, 11:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> > > > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > > >> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
>
> > > You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hamp=
sten
> > > and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with l=
ong
> > > pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
>
> > > Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to =
catch
> > > Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the=
jacket
> > > on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
>
> > > It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.
>
> > Roll was there and was quite specific - mentioned that Hampsten was
> > shocked to see him back up at the front with the clothing. Don't see
> > why it has to be an either/or situation. Maybe the car with winter
> > clothing was an entrepreneur trying to make a few bucks.
>
> > On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes=
.php
>
> In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
> customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerkRicha=
rd Sachs...
______________

wtf did i do to get under your skin?
e-RICHIE=A9=99=AE

Date: 10 Mar 2007 20:09:35
From: howard kveck
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

Date: 10 Mar 2007 04:01:51
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

In article <1173450586.638716.122250@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"e-RICHIE" <richardsachs@juno.com > wrote:

> On 9, 3:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > In article <1173419916.213527.162...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > > On 8, 11:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > > "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > > > > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > > > >> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
> >
> > > > You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy
> > > > Hampsten
> > > > and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with
> > > > long
> > > > pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
> >
> > > > Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to
> > > > catch
> > > > Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the
> > > > jacket
> > > > on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
> >
> > > > It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.
> >
> > > Roll was there and was quite specific - mentioned that Hampsten was
> > > shocked to see him back up at the front with the clothing. Don't see
> > > why it has to be an either/or situation. Maybe the car with winter
> > > clothing was an entrepreneur trying to make a few bucks.
> >
> > > On a nauseating note:
> > > http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php
> >
> > In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
> > customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerkRichard
> > Sachs...
>
>
> wtf did i do to get under your skin?
> e-RICHIE???

I'm just mad you don't make carbon fibre bikes that cost $300/frame in
quantities of 10.

I'm virtually certain you know I'm kidding. But on the 1% chance that my
sarcasm was too inept, I should say I was kidding, and just using you as
an example of a small shop with even scarcer, pricier frames than
Rivendell...

"A signed order form along with a $400, non-refundable and
non-transferable deposit is due to confirm your order.

This deposit secures your position on the wait list. Due to the current
lead time, I cannot quote a final sales price. The current base price
for frames now being delivered is $3400. Once a place in line is secured
with a deposit, no further monies are due until frames and bicycles are
assembled."

I mean, seriously, you know demand is high when you can ask for those
kinds of terms. (And I think Cyclingnews just quoted a 4-year waiting
list for a Sachs bike).

And I swear I'm not going to do anything rude like make a Noka
Chocolates joke.

Hm. Let's look at my to-do list:

1) prepare bike for race on Saturday
2) revise club website
3) help buddy with child-size CX project
4) annoy one of the most talented and famous framebuilders on the planet

Done. It's Bailey's time!

Because Sacha White doesn't read rbr,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Date: 09 Mar 2007 16:36:33
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
>> customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerkRichard Sachs...

e-RICHIE wrote:
> wtf did i do to get under your skin?

You sold him a re-badged Bianchi with a EU warranty ?

Date: 09 Mar 2007 06:15:03
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 9, 2:57 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid >
wrote:
> On Fri, 09 2007 03:41:16 GMT, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> >http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
>
> It almost looks like he's going to win that stage.

That's not a stage. That's the Iditarod. You can't see the dogs due
to the snow.

R

Date: 09 Mar 2007 06:13:09
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 9, 3:03 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@sfu.ca > wrote:
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> > On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php
>
> In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
> customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerk
> Richard Sachs...
>
> I think that biztactics interpretation of the Rivendell business model
> is a bit tendentious.
>
> I'm not in the ket for a Rivendell (my biggest objection being that,
> well, I bought a 20-year-old steel Miyata tourer last year, and it only
> cost $20), but I do understand what is in it for the buyers. And it's
> not just scarcity.
>
> Actually, that biztactics stuff is pretty interesting.

I didn't poke around on the biztactics site. I just ran across the
article on Rivendell and thought, as you noted, that it was a very
slanted view. Frankly, I don't know enough about Rivendell to know
how they stoke demand. The first couple of paragraphs contain enough
inanity to pretty much dismiss the author's viewpoint. A $1300
bike?! Omigawd!!!

I'm surprised you think Richard Sachs is a jerk... {ducking} ;)

R

Date: 08 Mar 2007 21:58:36
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 8, 11:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:
> "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
> >>> happened due to wind before?
>
> >>>http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>
> >> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
> >> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
> >> lightning.
>
> >> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
> >> or powerlines.
>
> > Sissies! ;-)
>
> >http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
>
> You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hampsten
> and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with long
> pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
>
> Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to catch
> Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the jacket
> on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
>
> It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.

Roll was there and was quite specific - mentioned that Hampsten was
shocked to see him back up at the front with the clothing. Don't see
why it has to be an either/or situation. Maybe the car with winter
clothing was an entrepreneur trying to make a few bucks.

On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php

R

Date: 09 Mar 2007 23:29:29
From: Michael Press
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

In article
<1173419916.213527.162550@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.
com >,
"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:

> On 8, 11:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >
> > news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> >
> >
> > > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > >> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com>
> > >> wrote:
> >
> > >>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
> > >>> happened due to wind before?
> >
> > >>>http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
> >
> > >> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
> > >> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
> > >> lightning.
> >
> > >> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
> > >> or powerlines.
> >
> > > Sissies! ;-)
> >
> > >http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
> >
> > You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hampsten
> > and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with long
> > pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
> >
> > Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to catch
> > Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the jacket
> > on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
> >
> > It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.
>
> Roll was there and was quite specific - mentioned that Hampsten was
> shocked to see him back up at the front with the clothing. Don't see
> why it has to be an either/or situation. Maybe the car with winter
> clothing was an entrepreneur trying to make a few bucks.
>
> On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php

$1300 is a fair price for a well made bicycle.
Never heard that R reneged on a guarantee.

Date: 09 Mar 2007 20:44:57
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

RicodJour wrote:
> On 8, 11:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>>>> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>>>>> happened due to wind before?
>>>>> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>>>> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
>>>> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
>>>> lightning.
>>>> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
>>>> or powerlines.
>>> Sissies! ;-)
>>> http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
>> You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hampsten
>> and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with long
>> pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
>>
>> Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to catch
>> Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the jacket
>> on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
>>
>> It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.
>
> Roll was there and was quite specific - mentioned that Hampsten was
> shocked to see him back up at the front with the clothing. Don't see
> why it has to be an either/or situation. Maybe the car with winter
> clothing was an entrepreneur trying to make a few bucks.
>
> On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php
>
> R
>

I used to see a guy riding a Rivendell here in Prospect Park. Very
nice frame. Don't remember what tubeset, but it was very pretty. It
may have been almost 20 years ago.
Strange to see a website purporting to know about business that seems
to have no idea what bicycles cost.

Steve

Date: 09 Mar 2007 19:36:27
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On Fri, 09 2007 20:44:57 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
<dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net > wrote:

> I used to see a guy riding a Rivendell here in Prospect Park. Very
>nice frame. Don't remember what tubeset, but it was very pretty. It
>may have been almost 20 years ago.
> Strange to see a website purporting to know about business that seems
>to have no idea what bicycles cost.

A guy names Chuck Damsky was riding one for year, up until a year or
two ago. He's on a Waterford now.

I buy stuff from Rivendell occassionally (most recently this week --
thoug the stuff hasn't arrived), but find their schtick tiresome most
of the time, and wrong some of the time.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 10 Mar 2007 03:29:08
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Fri, 09 2007 20:44:57 GMT, Steven Bornfeld
> <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>> I used to see a guy riding a Rivendell here in Prospect Park. Very
>> nice frame. Don't remember what tubeset, but it was very pretty. It
>> may have been almost 20 years ago.
>> Strange to see a website purporting to know about business that seems
>> to have no idea what bicycles cost.
>
> A guy names Chuck Damsky was riding one for year, up until a year or
> two ago. He's on a Waterford now.
>
> I buy stuff from Rivendell occassionally (most recently this week --
> thoug the stuff hasn't arrived), but find their schtick tiresome most
> of the time, and wrong some of the time.

Ya know, it wasn't Chuck I was thinking of (though I've known him for
years)--didn't even remember what he rode. I don't read the magazines
anymore, so I don't know the schtick.

Steve

Date: 09 Mar 2007 08:03:28
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

In article <1173419916.213527.162550@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com >,
"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com > wrote:

> On 8, 11:21 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >
> > news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> >
> >
> > > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > >> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com>
> > >> wrote:

> > >http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
> >
> > You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hampsten
> > and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with long
> > pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
> >
> > Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to catch
> > Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the jacket
> > on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
> >
> > It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.
>
> Roll was there and was quite specific - mentioned that Hampsten was
> shocked to see him back up at the front with the clothing. Don't see
> why it has to be an either/or situation. Maybe the car with winter
> clothing was an entrepreneur trying to make a few bucks.
>
> On a nauseating note: http://www.biztactics.com/bullet-rivendell-bikes.php

In what way? Because they sell nice bikes to a small number of
customers? I can't wait to hear what you have to say about that jerk
Richard Sachs...

I think that biztactics interpretation of the Rivendell business model
is a bit tendentious.

I'm not in the ket for a Rivendell (my biggest objection being that,
well, I bought a 20-year-old steel Miyata tourer last year, and it only
cost $20), but I do understand what is in it for the buyers. And it's
not just scarcity.

Actually, that biztactics stuff is pretty interesting.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Date: 08 Mar 2007 18:16:33
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>happened due to wind before?
>
>http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml

I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
lightning.

I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
or powerlines.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Date: 09 Mar 2007 10:03:51
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On Thu, 08 2007 18:16:33 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
<usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:

>I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
>And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
>lightning.

And I cancelled one due to lightning once. Standing next to a camera
mounted to an aluminum ladder figured largely in my calculations. The
rain was pretty heavy - Bobby Phillips made some rather unkind reks
when he finished the last lap and waded over to the start finish.
Bobby wasn't so tall, which was the real reason it was neck deep...

In our defense, we did have an announcement before hand that pretty
much said to consider the first lightning strike as the finish bell.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 09 Mar 2007 09:59:35
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On Thu, 08 2007 18:16:33 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
<usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote:

>I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
>And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
>lightning.
>
>I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
>or powerlines.

Long, long ago we had a race cancelled near San Angelo or some other
place in West Texas due to a sand storm. Everybody pulled into a large
barn and stayed the duration. Would have been a great time to plan to
repaint a frame afterwards - just leave it outside.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Date: 09 Mar 2007 03:41:16
From: Steven Bornfeld
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>> happened due to wind before?
>>
>> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>
> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
> lightning.
>
> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
> or powerlines.

Sissies! ;-)

http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg

Steve

Date: 09 Mar 2007 08:57:47
From: Ewoud Dronkert
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On Fri, 09 2007 03:41:16 GMT, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
> http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg

It almost looks like he's going to win that stage.

--
E. Dronkert

Date: 09 Mar 2007 13:38:34
From: Bob Schwartz
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Fri, 09 2007 03:41:16 GMT, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
>> http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
>
> It almost looks like he's going to win that stage.
>

Troll!

Bob Schwartz

Date: 09 Mar 2007 15:54:10
From: Donald Munro
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>> It almost looks like he's going to win that stage.

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Troll!

You're just jealous of real humans because if one of your bots trolled
itself, it would end up in an infinite loop.

Date: 09 Mar 2007 04:21:38
From: Tom Kunich
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

"Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>>> happened due to wind before?
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>>
>> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
>> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
>> lightning.
>>
>> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
>> or powerlines.
>
>
> Sissies! ;-)
>
> http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg

You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hampsten
and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with long
pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.

Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to catch
Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the jacket
on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.

It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.

Date: 09 Mar 2007 07:34:13
From: Ryan Cousineau
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

In article <mh5Ih.7917$PL.4427@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com > wrote:

> "Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:wH4Ih.7911$PL.6674@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
> >>> happened due to wind before?
> >>>
> >>> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
> >>
> >> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
> >> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
> >> lightning.
> >>
> >> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
> >> or powerlines.
> >
> >
> > Sissies! ;-)
> >
> > http://personal3.iddeo.es/ferpuig/gavia.jpg
>
> You know, the latest Rivendell Reader has an interview with Andy Hampsten
> and in it he mentions that there was a car mostly up the Gavia with long
> pants and winter clothing. Strange, I don't remember that.
>
> Also in Bobke, Bob Roll said that he was handed a jacket and told to catch
> Andy and give it to him. Roll actually caught Hampsten and passed the jacket
> on. Roll was also one of the very few to actually finish that stage.
>
> It would be nice if someone would print exactly what really happened.

Is there a reason you doubt the multiple reports by Hampsten?

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=1827

"When we left it was just rainingŠ kind of sleet-rain, but bucketing
down. We went over the Aprica pass, a category 2 with a pretty short
descent, but even on that descent I was wearing ALL the warm clothes I
could possibly put on. I was shaking uncontrollably on that silly little
descent."

"My team was taking really good care of me bringing me hot tea every 5
km, we had a big thermos, our team was really well prepared."

"I like dirt I really like riding on dirt roads, I was kind of having
fun (he chuckles). It wasn¹t gravelly or chunky, it was a good dirt
road, no potholes. A perfectly fine dirt road to ride your bike on, soft
enough that I could see my tires were leaving imprints, so quite a bit
of resistance, but technically nothing challenging. Which was wonderful,
because over the top I was testing to see if it was icy, and it wasn¹t.
It was just slush on top of a very wet dirt road, so it wasn¹t ever very
dangerous..."

***

I was going to quote more, but I encourage you to read the rest of the
lovely story there. He mentions a musette bag of warm, dry clothes he
got 2 km from the top of the climb, and it has a photo of him being
followed by a vehicle (team, media, official...there's no telling).

It's a great narrative.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Date: 08 Mar 2007 16:33:19
From: h squared
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On 8 2007 11:36:04 -0800, "bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>>happened due to wind before?
>>
>>http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>
>
> I don't know. My club cancelled a race a few years ago due to fog.
> And the same day another event in the US was cancelled due to
> lightning.
>
> I've seen races delayed or interrupted due to wind knocking down trees
> or powerlines.

i once made a special effort to go spectate at a race that ended up
being canceled by.........rain.

grrr :(

h

Date: 08 Mar 2007 14:26:27
From: bjorn
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 8, 1:26 pm, "Caroline" <notr...@askforone.com > wrote:
> "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1173382564.734217.121860@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
> > happened due to wind before?
>
> >http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>
> > bjorn
> >www.procyclingpress.com
>
> Hi...
>
> I've been lurking for a while. My son races, and I'm a loooooong retired
> USCF race official who used to live in El Paso. The winds there can be
> extremely treacherous. Wanna climb a mountain with a 40 or 50 mph headwind
> with gusts past 60?

I would prefer a tailwind in that case :)

>
> Don't know if the rules have changed since my last officiating 20 years ago,
> but back then cancelling a race because of winds was always at the
> discretion of the chief referee. When wind conditions were extreme, my
> personal policy was to make a unilateral decision (or concur with my
> officials) on lower category races, then talk to the elite cyclists about
> whether they wanted to go ahead with the race. But I will add that if wind
> conditions had ever been so severe there was danger of blowing the peloton
> over the side of a mountain, no way I'd think twice about cancelling. But
> it's pretty rare for wind conditions to be that bad. The case cited here
> must have been pretty extreme.

Thanks for your answer. It was extreme. The wind speeds have been
reported between 100km/h (American/British sources) and 130km/h
(German sources).. That's between about 62mph and 80 mph..

bjorn

>
> Caroline

Date: 09 Mar 2007 03:32:32
From: Caroline
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

"bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1173392787.465660.318310@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> On 8, 1:26 pm, "Caroline" <notr...@askforone.com> wrote:
>> "bjorn" <procyclingpr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1173382564.734217.121860@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>> > happened due to wind before?
>>
>> >http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>>
>> > bjorn
>> >www.procyclingpress.com
>>
>> Hi...
>>
>> I've been lurking for a while. My son races, and I'm a loooooong retired
>> USCF race official who used to live in El Paso. The winds there can be
>> extremely treacherous. Wanna climb a mountain with a 40 or 50 mph
>> headwind
>> with gusts past 60?
>
> I would prefer a tailwind in that case :)
>

I never worried about guys with a headwind going UP the mountain. However,
that kind of a tail wind going down the mountains was scary. VERY
scary....! '-)

Caroline

Date: 08 Mar 2007 21:26:09
From: Caroline
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

"bjorn" <procyclingpress@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1173382564.734217.121860@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com...
>I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
> happened due to wind before?
>
> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>
> bjorn
> www.procyclingpress.com
>

Hi...

I've been lurking for a while. My son races, and I'm a loooooong retired
USCF race official who used to live in El Paso. The winds there can be
extremely treacherous. Wanna climb a mountain with a 40 or 50 mph headwind
with gusts past 60?

Don't know if the rules have changed since my last officiating 20 years ago,
but back then cancelling a race because of winds was always at the
discretion of the chief referee. When wind conditions were extreme, my
personal policy was to make a unilateral decision (or concur with my
officials) on lower category races, then talk to the elite cyclists about
whether they wanted to go ahead with the race. But I will add that if wind
conditions had ever been so severe there was danger of blowing the peloton
over the side of a mountain, no way I'd think twice about cancelling. But
it's pretty rare for wind conditions to be that bad. The case cited here
must have been pretty extreme.

Caroline

Date: 08 Mar 2007 11:55:24
From: RicodJour
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

bjorn wrote:
> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
> happened due to wind before?

I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of it. Benjo will
probably be able to list the instances, wind speeds and directions.

> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml

>From that article:
"The money which would be awarded to the stage winner will now be
given to the family of Isaac G=E1lvez Lopez, who died after a crash at
the Ghent six-day last year."

Kudos to the g(h)ent(s) that came up with that idea!

R

Date: 09 Mar 2007 22:53:17
From: MagillaGorilla
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

RicodJour wrote:

> bjorn wrote:
>
>>I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>>happened due to wind before?
>
>
> I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of it. Benjo will
> probably be able to list the instances, wind speeds and directions.
>
>
>>http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>
>
>>From that article:
> "The money which would be awarded to the stage winner will now be
> given to the family of Isaac Gálvez Lopez, who died after a crash at
> the Ghent six-day last year."
>
> Kudos to the g(h)ent(s) that came up with that idea!
>
> R
>

Yeah, it's easy to give away other people's money and make it appear
it's your own altruism. The fact is that money was for the riders and
teams, not for the promoter to give away for whatever reason he wanted.

The riders did not cancel the stage, therefore the money should have
been put back into the race and not taken from the racers.

This isn't generosity; this is stealing from riders to pay another
rider's family to make the person who's doing the stealing look good.

Magilla

Date: 10 Mar 2007 03:58:57
From: Steven L. Sheffield
Subject: Re: wind cancels race

On 3/9/07 8:53 PM, in article 9Jmdncg4nZgztm_YnZ2dnUVZ_revnZ2d@ptd.net,
"MagillaGorilla" <MagillaGorilla@zoo.com > wrote:

> RicodJour wrote:
>
>> bjorn wrote:
>>
>>> I have heard of stages shortened/canceled du to snow. Has it ever
>>> happened due to wind before?
>>
>>
>> I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of it. Benjo will
>> probably be able to list the instances, wind speeds and directions.
>>
>>
>>> http://www.cyclingpost.com/other/article_004338.shtml
>>
>>
>>> From that article:
>> "The money which would be awarded to the stage winner will now be
>> given to the family of Isaac Gálvez Lopez, who died after a crash at
>> the Ghent six-day last year."
>>
>> Kudos to the g(h)ent(s) that came up with that idea!
>>
>> R
>>
>
>
> Yeah, it's easy to give away other people's money and make it appear
> it's your own altruism. The fact is that money was for the riders and
> teams, not for the promoter to give away for whatever reason he wanted.
>
> The riders did not cancel the stage, therefore the money should have
> been put back into the race and not taken from the racers.
>
> This isn't generosity; this is stealing from riders to pay another
> rider's family to make the person who's doing the stealing look good.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/07/09news

"In the place of what should have been a decisive stage, the riders rode
only the last ten kilometres into Fortuna, crossing the finishing line
together with no change in the overall classification. The riders decided to
give the stage's prize money Isaac Gálvez¹ family, the Caisse d¹Epargne
rider who died last November during the Gent Six Day in Belgium."

So who is stealing from the riders?

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash