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Main
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:28:09
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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They're printed on plain paper! And they're so small, and packed with
somewhat superfluous info (who the hell cares about restaurants along
the way, really).
Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or printed
on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all! Also, they really
should be bigger -- perhaps better as a spiral-bound book? And more
comprehensive -- I find googlemaps more useful!
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 17:52:59
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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Masturbation?
Yes, you're enjoying this too much.
I'm not Saint Ed, you know.
Okay, you piece of one-ply toilet tissue: you can have the last word.
It won't make a difference since you've had nothing to say anyway --
nothing informative, and nothing even remotely entertaining.
Go fuck a tractor trailer's wheels. Any one.
Tim McNaa wrote:
> In article <1156259435.080319.326230@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Tim McNaa wrote:
> > >
> > > LOL. There was no argument. There is now, of course, since you're
> > > just being a prick.
> >
> > Just look up the word "argument" in a dictionary before you argue
> > whether there is an "argument" here, butt-scab.
>
> You're engaged in nothing more than polemic masturbation, bub. I pointed
> out that my experience with touring using the Adventure Cycling maps was
> different that yours, and I even graciously allowed that my maps are six
> years old and thus might be printed on different stock that yours. You,
> providing ample evidence of your inadequate reading comprehension, chose
> to interpret that as an "argument."
>
> > > Surely you can do better than that. 12 year olds have better
> > > repartee.
> >
> > Is that why you can't think of anything better to say, since you're
> > all of eight-and-a-half yourself?
> >
> > > You don't have to get the updated information if you don't want to.
> >
> > Outdated info is no use on a map. Data that's ever-changing wastes
> > space.
>
> LOL. Are you really a moron or do you just play one on the Internet?
>
> > > Or do you expect them to update and reprint the maps on a monthly
> > > basis?
> >
> > I just done tol' ya how I would like the maps done, shit-stain.
> >
> > > Shee-it, my state's Department of Transportation doesn't even
> > > update its maps annually- just reprints the same maps with a new
> > > year on the front.
> >
> > Good for you. Write them a nice letter.
>
> Good for me? You really are a dolt. Hell's bells, Pee Wee Herman is
> less of a fuckwit than you. But please, do keep going on, it's very
> entertaining. What would Bill S. read for laughs without you?
>
> > > I was taught to never try to teach a pig to sing- it's a waste of
> > > time and annoys the pig. So I don't write to the President. He'll
> > > be gone eventually.
> >
> > Then stop bitching.
>
> I'm not the one bitching, dude.
>
> > > Sheesh. If this is a battle wits, you appear to be unarmed.
> >
> > If this were a battle of wits, I'd be arrested for child abuse.
> >
> > > Trying to fit in into the map holder on top of my handlebar bag
> > > would be impossible.
> >
> > There are bigger map holders. Alternately, the spiral-bound
> > "mapbook" can be made small enough, etc.
> >
> > > Sliding it in and out of a pannier pocket with the comb
> > > catching on the fabric would be a nuisance. Having to handle all
> > > the maps at all times instead of just the section I need for the
> > > day would be cumbersome.
> >
> > Who says you couldn't have just the section you need?
> >
> > > No, it's pretty simple to orient the map, if necessary, or just to
> > > reorient it in my mind.
> >
> > Yes, and it's easy getting up to change the channel -- why did they
> > ever invent the remote?
> >
> > > I don't know why you would find that so hard to
> > > do.
> >
> > Not hard -- just unnecessary. And it looks amateurish.
> >
> > If they want to resort to panels, then a book-format is better. This
> > also allows for each panel to be bigger, and affords them all the
> > same north-orientation from page to page. The eye can thusmore
> > smoothly follow the route from panel to panel, and the mind more
> > readily imagine the trip and thus contain the whole map for future
> > on-the-fly mental reference.
>
> Perhaps for you, with your obviously diminished processing capacity.
> The other thousands of Adventure Cycling customers don't seem to have a
> problem with it. That suggests that the problem is yours rather than a
> problem with the maps.
>
> > > Either your sense of direction or your sense of spatial relations
> > > is impaired.
> >
> > Obviously, you have no imagination. We'd never even gotten the wheel
> > were the world full of folks like you ("wheels? I have feet!"), much
> > less the bicycle.
>
> LOL. Your best efforts appear to be to try to obfuscate, a sure sign of
> incomprehension. A bit of imagination is all it takes to use the maps
> quite efficiently as they are. Your incapacity clearly indicates which
> one of us is lacking in imagination. But you at least do try to make up
> for it with delusions of adequacy.
>
> > > I prefer to follow the road. The map is only a reference tool.
> >
> > I am talking about researching the trip beforehand.
> >
> > And a reference tool should be as simple as possible. Flipping
> > around little 2x4 panels (they're even smaller than I'd thought) from
> > one to the other to orient north and then connect it in one's mind
> > with another "differently-oriented" panel should be be at a cut-off
> > from one panel to the next does not sound very "handy" to me.
>
> "Doesn't sound very handy?" So you've not actually used them, then?
> Well, that certainly explains a lot. ROTFL!
>
> > > Hey, you've gotta make a choice. A compact map that takes a slight
> > > mental effort on your part to use, or a large map with contiguous
> > > routing information.
> >
> > Those are not the only options. As I've outlined already, it can be
> > a book -- the particular dimensions aren't important now, and can
> > always be modified as "field requirements" dictate.
>
> More evidence of your daftitude.
>
> > > Adventure Cycling has assumed that their customers
> > > have the wits to make use of and appreciate the former. You appear
> > > to be an exception.
> >
> > You must be a very stupid man since you're so concerned about
> > intelligence.
> >
> > Truly intelligent people like myself take it as a matter of course,
> > and do not consider it stupidity to improve on existing conditions,
> > however currently feasible.
>
> And you're humble, too. How refreshing!
>
> > > And yet you grouse on and on about them. LOL!
> >
> > Since when is responding to you people "grousing on and on"?
> >
> > Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to ignore you morons.
> >
> > Fair enough. I shall.
> >
> > Have a nice life! Don't forget to wear your helmets -- the tighter
> > the better!
>
> Why, thank you. I bid you a fond adieu as well.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 04:22:11
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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NYC XYZ wrote:
A:
> Masturbation?
> Yes, you're enjoying this too much.
Q:
When does top-posting make you look like an even bigger moron?
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 08:18:15
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 04:22:11 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me > wrote:
>NYC XYZ wrote:
>
>A:
>> Masturbation?
>> Yes, you're enjoying this too much.
>
>Q:
>When does top-posting make you look like an even bigger moron?
>
A:
All the time, every time.
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 01:21:14
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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On 22 Aug 2006 17:52:59 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Masturbation?
>
>Yes, you're enjoying this too much.
>
>I'm not Saint Ed, you know.
>
>Okay, you piece of one-ply toilet tissue: you can have the last word.
>It won't make a difference since you've had nothing to say anyway --
>nothing informative, and nothing even remotely entertaining.
>
>Go fuck a tractor trailer's wheels. Any one.
>
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 +10dB
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:09:40
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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me@privacy.net wrote:
> Tim McNaa <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >> Viola! A perfect pre-trip research tool for the route. Zoom in, zoom
> >> out, fly around, look at it in 3D. Works great.
> >
> >I hadn't thought of trying that. What a great idea, thanks!
>
> Looks like you must have GPS Plus tho.... correct?
Google Earth Plus? Probably, but I have had it since beta. But for
$20/year ... Even if you do not want to pay for that, most any GPS
capable program can handle GPX format. I use MapSource, GarTrip, and a
few others in addtion to Google Earth; all work fine just that with
Google Earth you get all the rotate, fly, tilt, etc. options.
- rick
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:05:15
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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me@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rick" <rickwarner@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > 1) Go to the AC website.
> > 2) Download the GPX version of the mapsets.
>
> Can you explain to me what the GPX version is and how
> to download it?
GPX is the common GPs eXchange format; most GPS capable software these
days can read if not read/write the format. What it is is an XML file
in a specific format for GPS information.
Tim posted a link to one set of GPS maps. Here is a link to the
Transamerica maps:
http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes/transamerica.cfm . If you
follow that link, in the center of the page is line of links that reads
'overview
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 10:33:51
From:
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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"Rick" <rickwarner@earthlink.net > wrote:
>GPX is the common GPs eXchange format; most GPS capable software these
>days can read if not read/write the format. What it is is an XML file
>in a specific format for GPS information.
very very cool!
thank you so much!
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 13:01:41
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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Rick wrote:
>
>
>
> Sheesh, this is too easy. To quote you: "obviously, you have no
> imagination." Forget being able to spatially organize information,
> etc. which some folks find trivial. If you are talking research let me
> give you a big hint of how to use the Adventure Cycling route
> information ..... all organized in a neat package showing the whole
> route or any one section at any time.
>
> 1) Go to the AC website.
> 2) Download the GPX version of the mapsets.
> 3) Get Google Earth and install.
> 4) Import the AC mapsets into Google Earth.
>
> Viola! A perfect pre-trip research tool for the route. Zoom in, zoom
> out, fly around, look at it in 3D. Works great.
Yes, thank you -- but wouldn't it be great for the maps to be like most
spiral-bound auto-maps, only for bikes? It's really not very
controversial: laminated and bound for durability, large enough for
glancing pleasure and inclusion of any alternate paths, all map panels
oriented the same way ("north" is "up")....
> Books do not work well in map holders. Books tend to be heavy, esp
> since you want them printed on heavy, tear proof and waterproof paper.
No, not true. Obviously I'm not talking the OED here -- even with
lamination, not even a quarter of an inch will be enough to contain the
AC maps as they are divided now!
> There is a difference between responding and grousing. You want things
> your way.
So if I want them *your* way, I'm not "grousing" but merely
"responding"?
Of course I want them *my* way -- am I supposed to speak for God?
> You are apparently in the minority if this thread is
> representative, yet you think the world should mold to your view.
Hey, bicyclists are minorities to begin with. Most people think bike
paths a waste of tax dollars, and bicyclists annoying speed bumps.
Seriously, what is it with you people? Why are y'all so hypocritical??
> Rather than ignore the wisdom of others you resort to name calling.
Who started with the name calling?
Are you a just liar or do you have really bad memory?
> We
> shall all be better off if you do ignore us.
Interestingly, something's preventing you from hitting ALT+CTRL+DEL?
Oh, yeah, you're on a fucking apple mac.
Moron.
> - rick
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 10:59:14
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> > Either your sense of direction or your sense of spatial relations
> > is impaired.
>
> Obviously, you have no imagination. We'd never even gotten the wheel
> were the world full of folks like you ("wheels? I have feet!"), much
> less the bicycle.
>
> > I prefer to follow the road. The map is only a reference tool.
>
> I am talking about researching the trip beforehand.
>
> And a reference tool should be as simple as possible. Flipping around
> little 2x4 panels (they're even smaller than I'd thought) from one to
> the other to orient north and then connect it in one's mind with
> another "differently-oriented" panel should be be at a cut-off from one
> panel to the next does not sound very "handy" to me.
Sheesh, this is too easy. To quote you: "obviously, you have no
imagination." Forget being able to spatially organize information,
etc. which some folks find trivial. If you are talking research let me
give you a big hint of how to use the Adventure Cycling route
information ..... all organized in a neat package showing the whole
route or any one section at any time.
1) Go to the AC website.
2) Download the GPX version of the mapsets.
3) Get Google Earth and install.
4) Import the AC mapsets into Google Earth.
Viola! A perfect pre-trip research tool for the route. Zoom in, zoom
out, fly around, look at it in 3D. Works great.
> > Hey, you've gotta make a choice. A compact map that takes a slight
> > mental effort on your part to use, or a large map with contiguous
> > routing information.
>
> Those are not the only options. As I've outlined already, it can be a
> book -- the particular dimensions aren't important now, and can always
> be modified as "field requirements" dictate.
Books do not work well in map holders. Books tend to be heavy, esp
since you want them printed on heavy, tear proof and waterproof paper.
>
> Since when is responding to you people "grousing on and on"?
>
> Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to ignore you morons.
There is a difference between responding and grousing. You want things
your way. You are apparently in the minority if this thread is
representative, yet you think the world should mold to your view.
Rather than ignore the wisdom of others you resort to name calling. We
shall all be better off if you do ignore us.
- rick
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Date: 23 Aug 2006 09:54:19
From: Roger Houston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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"Rick" <rickwarner@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:1156269554.756018.209960@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Viola!
I would have preferred a cello.
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:10:47
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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In article <1156269554.756018.209960@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
"Rick" <rickwarner@earthlink.net > wrote:
> 1) Go to the AC website.
> 2) Download the GPX version of the mapsets.
> 3) Get Google Earth and install.
> 4) Import the AC mapsets into Google Earth.
>
> Viola! A perfect pre-trip research tool for the route. Zoom in, zoom
> out, fly around, look at it in 3D. Works great.
I hadn't thought of trying that. What a great idea, thanks!
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:21:57
From:
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Tim McNaa <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
>> Viola! A perfect pre-trip research tool for the route. Zoom in, zoom
>> out, fly around, look at it in 3D. Works great.
>
>I hadn't thought of trying that. What a great idea, thanks!
Looks like you must have GPS Plus tho.... correct?
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 15:06:11
From:
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
"Rick" <rickwarner@earthlink.net > wrote:
> 1) Go to the AC website.
> 2) Download the GPX version of the mapsets.
Can you explain to me what the GPX version is and how
to download it?
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:12:12
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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In article <vsome2h886h6122cr629ti5ml6vf35jp6e@4ax.com >, me@privacy.net
wrote:
> "Rick" <rickwarner@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > 1) Go to the AC website.
> > 2) Download the GPX version of the mapsets.
>
> Can you explain to me what the GPX version is and how
> to download it?
http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes/gps.cfm?rt=Great%20Rivers%20South&
s=112k&f=grgpsdata
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 18:19:01
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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Rick wrote:
> Viola! A perfect pre-trip research tool for the route.
A resonant stringed instrument usually played with a bow?
Bill "sarcams mode" S.
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 08:10:35
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Tim McNaa wrote:
>
>
> LOL. There was no argument. There is now, of course, since you're just
> being a prick.
Just look up the word "argument" in a dictionary before you argue
whether there is an "argument" here, butt-scab.
> Surely you can do better than that. 12 year olds have better repartee.
Is that why you can't think of anything better to say, since you're all
of eight-and-a-half yourself?
> You don't have to get the updated information if you don't want to.
Outdated info is no use on a map. Data that's ever-changing wastes
space.
> Or
> do you expect them to update and reprint the maps on a monthly basis?
I just done tol' ya how I would like the maps done, shit-stain.
> Shee-it, my state's Department of Transportation doesn't even update its
> maps annually- just reprints the same maps with a new year on the front.
Good for you. Write them a nice letter.
> I was taught to never try to teach a pig to sing- it's a waste of time
> and annoys the pig. So I don't write to the President. He'll be gone
> eventually.
Then stop bitching.
> Sheesh. If this is a battle wits, you appear to be unarmed.
If this were a battle of wits, I'd be arrested for child abuse.
> Trying to fit in into the map holder on top of my handlebar bag would be
> impossible.
There are bigger map holders. Alternately, the spiral-bound "mapbook"
can be made small enough, etc.
> Sliding it in and out of a pannier pocket with the comb
> catching on the fabric would be a nuisance. Having to handle all the
> maps at all times instead of just the section I need for the day would
> be cumbersome.
Who says you couldn't have just the section you need?
> No, it's pretty simple to orient the map, if necessary, or just to
> reorient it in my mind.
Yes, and it's easy getting up to change the channel -- why did they
ever invent the remote?
> I don't know why you would find that so hard to
> do.
Not hard -- just unnecessary. And it looks amateurish.
If they want to resort to panels, then a book-format is better. This
also allows for each panel to be bigger, and affords them all the same
north-orientation from page to page. The eye can thusmore smoothly
follow the route from panel to panel, and the mind more readily imagine
the trip and thus contain the whole map for future on-the-fly mental
reference.
> Either your sense of direction or your sense of spatial relations
> is impaired.
Obviously, you have no imagination. We'd never even gotten the wheel
were the world full of folks like you ("wheels? I have feet!"), much
less the bicycle.
> I prefer to follow the road. The map is only a reference tool.
I am talking about researching the trip beforehand.
And a reference tool should be as simple as possible. Flipping around
little 2x4 panels (they're even smaller than I'd thought) from one to
the other to orient north and then connect it in one's mind with
another "differently-oriented" panel should be be at a cut-off from one
panel to the next does not sound very "handy" to me.
> Hey, you've gotta make a choice. A compact map that takes a slight
> mental effort on your part to use, or a large map with contiguous
> routing information.
Those are not the only options. As I've outlined already, it can be a
book -- the particular dimensions aren't important now, and can always
be modified as "field requirements" dictate.
> Adventure Cycling has assumed that their customers
> have the wits to make use of and appreciate the former. You appear to
> be an exception.
You must be a very stupid man since you're so concerned about
intelligence.
Truly intelligent people like myself take it as a matter of course, and
do not consider it stupidity to improve on existing conditions, however
currently feasible.
> And yet you grouse on and on about them. LOL!
Since when is responding to you people "grousing on and on"?
Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to ignore you morons.
Fair enough. I shall.
Have a nice life! Don't forget to wear your helmets -- the tighter the
better!
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Date: 22 Aug 2006 16:09:49
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
In article <1156259435.080319.326230@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com >,
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Tim McNaa wrote:
> >
> > LOL. There was no argument. There is now, of course, since you're
> > just being a prick.
>
> Just look up the word "argument" in a dictionary before you argue
> whether there is an "argument" here, butt-scab.
You're engaged in nothing more than polemic masturbation, bub. I pointed
out that my experience with touring using the Adventure Cycling maps was
different that yours, and I even graciously allowed that my maps are six
years old and thus might be printed on different stock that yours. You,
providing ample evidence of your inadequate reading comprehension, chose
to interpret that as an "argument."
> > Surely you can do better than that. 12 year olds have better
> > repartee.
>
> Is that why you can't think of anything better to say, since you're
> all of eight-and-a-half yourself?
>
> > You don't have to get the updated information if you don't want to.
>
> Outdated info is no use on a map. Data that's ever-changing wastes
> space.
LOL. Are you really a moron or do you just play one on the Internet?
> > Or do you expect them to update and reprint the maps on a monthly
> > basis?
>
> I just done tol' ya how I would like the maps done, shit-stain.
>
> > Shee-it, my state's Department of Transportation doesn't even
> > update its maps annually- just reprints the same maps with a new
> > year on the front.
>
> Good for you. Write them a nice letter.
Good for me? You really are a dolt. Hell's bells, Pee Wee Herman is
less of a fuckwit than you. But please, do keep going on, it's very
entertaining. What would Bill S. read for laughs without you?
> > I was taught to never try to teach a pig to sing- it's a waste of
> > time and annoys the pig. So I don't write to the President. He'll
> > be gone eventually.
>
> Then stop bitching.
I'm not the one bitching, dude.
> > Sheesh. If this is a battle wits, you appear to be unarmed.
>
> If this were a battle of wits, I'd be arrested for child abuse.
>
> > Trying to fit in into the map holder on top of my handlebar bag
> > would be impossible.
>
> There are bigger map holders. Alternately, the spiral-bound
> "mapbook" can be made small enough, etc.
>
> > Sliding it in and out of a pannier pocket with the comb
> > catching on the fabric would be a nuisance. Having to handle all
> > the maps at all times instead of just the section I need for the
> > day would be cumbersome.
>
> Who says you couldn't have just the section you need?
>
> > No, it's pretty simple to orient the map, if necessary, or just to
> > reorient it in my mind.
>
> Yes, and it's easy getting up to change the channel -- why did they
> ever invent the remote?
>
> > I don't know why you would find that so hard to
> > do.
>
> Not hard -- just unnecessary. And it looks amateurish.
>
> If they want to resort to panels, then a book-format is better. This
> also allows for each panel to be bigger, and affords them all the
> same north-orientation from page to page. The eye can thusmore
> smoothly follow the route from panel to panel, and the mind more
> readily imagine the trip and thus contain the whole map for future
> on-the-fly mental reference.
Perhaps for you, with your obviously diminished processing capacity.
The other thousands of Adventure Cycling customers don't seem to have a
problem with it. That suggests that the problem is yours rather than a
problem with the maps.
> > Either your sense of direction or your sense of spatial relations
> > is impaired.
>
> Obviously, you have no imagination. We'd never even gotten the wheel
> were the world full of folks like you ("wheels? I have feet!"), much
> less the bicycle.
LOL. Your best efforts appear to be to try to obfuscate, a sure sign of
incomprehension. A bit of imagination is all it takes to use the maps
quite efficiently as they are. Your incapacity clearly indicates which
one of us is lacking in imagination. But you at least do try to make up
for it with delusions of adequacy.
> > I prefer to follow the road. The map is only a reference tool.
>
> I am talking about researching the trip beforehand.
>
> And a reference tool should be as simple as possible. Flipping
> around little 2x4 panels (they're even smaller than I'd thought) from
> one to the other to orient north and then connect it in one's mind
> with another "differently-oriented" panel should be be at a cut-off
> from one panel to the next does not sound very "handy" to me.
"Doesn't sound very handy?" So you've not actually used them, then?
Well, that certainly explains a lot. ROTFL!
> > Hey, you've gotta make a choice. A compact map that takes a slight
> > mental effort on your part to use, or a large map with contiguous
> > routing information.
>
> Those are not the only options. As I've outlined already, it can be
> a book -- the particular dimensions aren't important now, and can
> always be modified as "field requirements" dictate.
More evidence of your daftitude.
> > Adventure Cycling has assumed that their customers
> > have the wits to make use of and appreciate the former. You appear
> > to be an exception.
>
> You must be a very stupid man since you're so concerned about
> intelligence.
>
> Truly intelligent people like myself take it as a matter of course,
> and do not consider it stupidity to improve on existing conditions,
> however currently feasible.
And you're humble, too. How refreshing!
> > And yet you grouse on and on about them. LOL!
>
> Since when is responding to you people "grousing on and on"?
>
> Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to ignore you morons.
>
> Fair enough. I shall.
>
> Have a nice life! Don't forget to wear your helmets -- the tighter
> the better!
Why, thank you. I bid you a fond adieu as well.
|
| |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 08:54:03
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Tim McNaa wrote:
>
>
> What argument? I'm telling you my experience with Adventure Cycling's
> maps. There's no argument- it's a statement of fact.
In responding to my impressions with your own differing impressions, we
are debating the matter. Thus our positions are known as "arguments."
> Jeez, dude, you
> really should consider having an assholectomy.
You know, I'm not sure if you need a good dictionary -- or just a giant
dick in your mouth.
> My maps are not laminated but they have not torn despite being stuck in
> panniers, pulled out and consulted, etc. They ended the tour looking as
> good as when they started. The coated paper is pretty tough.
Nonetheless, lamination would guarantee that they do not fall apart.
It could be that you fold your maps very carefully, as I do.
> Perhaps. But the maps at least provide a starting point.
Not much use if you have to check AC's website for amendments and
addenda.
> Then send them some feedback about their maps. Kvetching here won't do
> jack shit about what you perceive as the problem.
Hey chuckle-head, how many times do you write the President?
> Too bad you insist on
> making perfect the enemy of good.
Too bad you insist on making pots the enemies of kettles.
> So, have yours laminated. Duh.
I want them to come that way. Duh.
> Spiral bound is fine in a car. It would be a PITA on a bike tour.
No it wouldn't. How so?
> The maps and routes are developed by people like you, who have ridden
> the routes and contact Adventure Cycling to offer correct information.
> I sent them corrections for the maps covering the area where I live.
> They're very happy to receive that information. If you know a better
> route, or an alternate route, send it in. There's no way for Adventure
> Cycling to know about local problems such as construction, road closures
> due to natural disasters, restaurant closures, etc. unless tourists
> using the maps tell them.
> If you can't be bothered with being part of the solution, then at least
> stop being a bitch.
Is your bitching about my bitching more helpful?
> Develop a little mental flexibility, dude.
You should try some of your own medicine, doctor.
> It's easy.
Obviously hard in your case.
> Space saving is
> good-
Not if the trade-off is flipping your map around to orient north.
Especially since most people like to follow things on a map for as long
a time as possible without distraction.
> you don't want to be dealing with a 48 x 48 inch map on a windy
> day.
Who's talking about a four foot map?
> BTW these are route maps, not area maps. You want a map of an
> area, buy one.
If you're upset, go kill yourself.
> And the maps I've gotten from Adventure Cycling have been very good.
And the maps I've gotten from AC have been okay -- and only because
they're the only ones on the ket.
|
| | |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 18:12:36
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
In article <1156175643.629571.4730@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com >,
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Tim McNaa wrote:
> >
> > What argument? I'm telling you my experience with Adventure
> > Cycling's maps. There's no argument- it's a statement of fact.
>
> In responding to my impressions with your own differing impressions,
> we are debating the matter. Thus our positions are known as
> "arguments."
LOL. There was no argument. There is now, of course, since you're just
being a prick.
> > Jeez, dude, you really should consider having an assholectomy.
>
> You know, I'm not sure if you need a good dictionary -- or just a
> giant dick in your mouth.
Surely you can do better than that. 12 year olds have better repartee.
> > My maps are not laminated but they have not torn despite being
> > stuck in panniers, pulled out and consulted, etc. They ended the
> > tour looking as good as when they started. The coated paper is
> > pretty tough.
>
> Nonetheless, lamination would guarantee that they do not fall apart.
> It could be that you fold your maps very carefully, as I do.
>
> > Perhaps. But the maps at least provide a starting point.
>
> Not much use if you have to check AC's website for amendments and
> addenda.
You don't have to get the updated information if you don't want to. Or
do you expect them to update and reprint the maps on a monthly basis?
Shee-it, my state's Department of Transportation doesn't even update its
maps annually- just reprints the same maps with a new year on the front.
> > Then send them some feedback about their maps. Kvetching here
> > won't do jack shit about what you perceive as the problem.
>
> Hey chuckle-head, how many times do you write the President?
I was taught to never try to teach a pig to sing- it's a waste of time
and annoys the pig. So I don't write to the President. He'll be gone
eventually.
> > Too bad you insist on making perfect the enemy of good.
>
> Too bad you insist on making pots the enemies of kettles.
Sheesh. If this is a battle wits, you appear to be unarmed.
> > So, have yours laminated. Duh.
>
> I want them to come that way. Duh.
>
> > Spiral bound is fine in a car. It would be a PITA on a bike tour.
>
> No it wouldn't. How so?
Trying to fit in into the map holder on top of my handlebar bag would be
impossible. Sliding it in and out of a pannier pocket with the comb
catching on the fabric would be a nuisance. Having to handle all the
maps at all times instead of just the section I need for the day would
be cumbersome.
> > The maps and routes are developed by people like you, who have
> > ridden the routes and contact Adventure Cycling to offer correct
> > information. I sent them corrections for the maps covering the area
> > where I live. They're very happy to receive that information. If
> > you know a better route, or an alternate route, send it in.
> > There's no way for Adventure Cycling to know about local problems
> > such as construction, road closures due to natural disasters,
> > restaurant closures, etc. unless tourists using the maps tell them.
>
> > If you can't be bothered with being part of the solution, then at
> > least stop being a bitch.
>
> Is your bitching about my bitching more helpful?
>
> > Develop a little mental flexibility, dude.
>
> You should try some of your own medicine, doctor.
>
> > It's easy.
>
> Obviously hard in your case.
No, it's pretty simple to orient the map, if necessary, or just to
reorient it in my mind. I don't know why you would find that so hard to
do. Either your sense of direction or your sense of spatial relations
is impaired.
> > Space saving is good-
>
> Not if the trade-off is flipping your map around to orient north.
> Especially since most people like to follow things on a map for as
> long a time as possible without distraction.
I prefer to follow the road. The map is only a reference tool.
> > you don't want to be dealing with a 48 x 48 inch map on a windy
> > day.
>
> Who's talking about a four foot map?
Hey, you've gotta make a choice. A compact map that takes a slight
mental effort on your part to use, or a large map with contiguous
routing information. Adventure Cycling has assumed that their customers
have the wits to make use of and appreciate the former. You appear to
be an exception.
> > BTW these are route maps, not area maps. You want a map of an
> > area, buy one.
>
> If you're upset, go kill yourself.
>
> > And the maps I've gotten from Adventure Cycling have been very
> > good.
>
> And the maps I've gotten from AC have been okay -- and only because
> they're the only ones on the ket.
And yet you grouse on and on about them. LOL!
|
| |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 08:37:40
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> It doesn't take much imagination, vision or the ability to conceive
> the future, to understand how you will not have a good a tour as your
> second one will be.
It doesn't need to take all this pussy-footing around with words to say
what you really mean.
> See above response.
Ditto.
|
| | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 08:52:25
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
ROTFLMFAO
Top-poster????
Call Usenet QA at 800-GET-REAL.
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> As if you would could possibly know, junior.
>
> Brrrnnng....!! Brrrnnng....!! Clue Phone.... it's for you, top poster.
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 16:37:18
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 23 Aug 2006 08:52:25 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>ROTFLMFAO
>
>Top-poster????
>
>
>Call Usenet QA at 800-GET-REAL.
>
Right. Speaking of getting real, is this what you call "real?"
"I look like a Greco-Roman statue, think like Socrates, and have all
the blood-thirst of a socio-path."
I have to agree, I call it real too, as in you're a real bozo.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 01:50:57
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 21 Aug 2006 08:37:40 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> It doesn't take much imagination, vision or the ability to conceive
>> the future, to understand how you will not have a good a tour as your
>> second one will be.
>
>It doesn't need to take all this pussy-footing around with words to say
>what you really mean.
>
>> See above response.
>
>Ditto.
Reading all your responses on this topic, I just realized that you're
one of those rare individuals that are never wrong. Good luck (not
that you'll need it, of course).
|
| |
Date: 20 Aug 2006 21:29:16
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Tim McNaa wrote:
>
>
> Mine aren't. They're printed on heavy coated paper.
Nit-picking over details won't help your argument at all.
Someone's already pointed out that they're waterproof. While a
dramatic and welcome improvement over my original diagnosis, the spirit
of my disappointment remains: paper just isn't rugged enough. If it
were laminated, it would not only be waterproof, but also tear-proof!
Plus, you'd be able to k it up with grease pencils, for those of you
who were in the infantry.
> Anyone who would like to eat when out on tour, perhaps.
Yeah, and what's the point of using up all that space for info which
needs to be updated, given how many places move or close altogether?
Doesn't anyone just ask a local anymore?
> Well, I bought my maps about 2000, so perhaps things have changed. Mine
> were very good, both in terms of the material and also the information
> on the maps. Sorry to hear you were disappointed.
I'm sorry too. I believe in their mission and I still support them, of
course, but I'm quite puzzled why the obvious has escaped them for so
long.
To wit:
1) Lamination means waterproof, tear-proof, and kable.
2) Spiral-bound means convenience and even more durability.
3) Alternate routes, even if available separately, not only shows real
expertise and "craftsmanship," but also increases product utility.
4) Enlarged maps (i.e., map panels) afford better readability and do
away with the annoying different directional-orientation from panel to
panel (currently, "north" points every which way from panel to panel
for space-saving purposes).
I don't care if the maps are $40 each. I'd get them if they're
valuable. And I think most anybody else would, too. All bike-lovers
support bike advocacy (as y'all know, Adventure Cycling is a non-profit
public-interest organization), so price wouldn't be too much of an
issue, I believe. Besides, touring cyclists are unlikely to begrudge
the price of a good map.
|
| | |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 14:55:41
From: John Knez
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Tim McNaa wrote:
>>
>> Mine aren't. They're printed on heavy coated paper.
>
> Nit-picking over details won't help your argument at all.
>
> Someone's already pointed out that they're waterproof. While a
> dramatic and welcome improvement over my original diagnosis, the spirit
> of my disappointment remains: paper just isn't rugged enough. If it
> were laminated, it would not only be waterproof, but also tear-proof!
> Plus, you'd be able to k it up with grease pencils, for those of you
> who were in the infantry.
>
>> Anyone who would like to eat when out on tour, perhaps.
>
> Yeah, and what's the point of using up all that space for info which
> needs to be updated, given how many places move or close altogether?
> Doesn't anyone just ask a local anymore?
>
>> Well, I bought my maps about 2000, so perhaps things have changed. Mine
>> were very good, both in terms of the material and also the information
>> on the maps. Sorry to hear you were disappointed.
>
> I'm sorry too. I believe in their mission and I still support them, of
> course, but I'm quite puzzled why the obvious has escaped them for so
> long.
>
> To wit:
>
> 1) Lamination means waterproof, tear-proof, and kable.
>
> 2) Spiral-bound means convenience and even more durability.
>
> 3) Alternate routes, even if available separately, not only shows real
> expertise and "craftsmanship," but also increases product utility.
>
> 4) Enlarged maps (i.e., map panels) afford better readability and do
> away with the annoying different directional-orientation from panel to
> panel (currently, "north" points every which way from panel to panel
> for space-saving purposes).
>
>
> I don't care if the maps are $40 each. I'd get them if they're
> valuable. And I think most anybody else would, too. All bike-lovers
> support bike advocacy (as y'all know, Adventure Cycling is a non-profit
> public-interest organization), so price wouldn't be too much of an
> issue, I believe. Besides, touring cyclists are unlikely to begrudge
> the price of a good map.
>
Perhaps they shouldn't even be selling paper maps. All they really need
to do is offer the routes in formats that people can pull into the
mapping software of their choice. They currently provide way point
files that are keyed to the maps of the routes. I've found these to be
compatible with the MapSource program from Garmin that I use. They're
probably compatible with other popular mapping software.
Getting out of the map business would permit them to focus resources on
managing routes more effectively. Tying the online routes with the
addenda they now offer online would be nice. It would also be nice if
there was some way for members to post variations to the official route
way points. The new routes formed by these way points could be rated by
other Adventure Cycling members based on various criteria, such as
hilliness, quality of the road, availability of services, number of
problem dogs, etc. After verification by enough members, these
alternate routes could become official.
One of the products that they could sell in their store could be good
quality, waterproof paper, such as National Geographic does through
their site. That way you could print what you want at whatever level of
detail you want.
They should still sell maps, but just be a reseller of other
organizations/companies maps. I still like a good, large folded map of
an area. I find it's easier to get the big picture from a folded map
than either maps in a book or online maps. If I'm not familiar with an
area I find maps in a book format to be too fragmented. In my
experience, online maps suffer from the way they drop roads as they zoom
out to cover a larger area. This makes it difficult to determine if a
back road is a good alternate route. GPS units compliment printed maps,
but their tiny screens and diminishing level of detail as you zoom out
lessens their usefulness in many situations. Plus, maps are always
'on', whereas GPS units require batteries.
---
John Knez
|
| | |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 08:59:05
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
In article <1156134556.658348.194580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Tim McNaa wrote:
> >
> > Mine aren't. They're printed on heavy coated paper.
>
> Nit-picking over details won't help your argument at all.
What argument? I'm telling you my experience with Adventure Cycling's
maps. There's no argument- it's a statement of fact. Jeez, dude, you
really should consider having an assholectomy.
> Someone's already pointed out that they're waterproof. While a
> dramatic and welcome improvement over my original diagnosis, the
> spirit of my disappointment remains: paper just isn't rugged enough.
> If it were laminated, it would not only be waterproof, but also
> tear-proof! Plus, you'd be able to k it up with grease pencils,
> for those of you who were in the infantry.
My maps are not laminated but they have not torn despite being stuck in
panniers, pulled out and consulted, etc. They ended the tour looking as
good as when they started. The coated paper is pretty tough.
> > Anyone who would like to eat when out on tour, perhaps.
>
> Yeah, and what's the point of using up all that space for info which
> needs to be updated, given how many places move or close altogether?
> Doesn't anyone just ask a local anymore?
Perhaps. But the maps at least provide a starting point.
> > Well, I bought my maps about 2000, so perhaps things have changed.
> > Mine were very good, both in terms of the material and also the
> > information on the maps. Sorry to hear you were disappointed.
>
> I'm sorry too. I believe in their mission and I still support them,
> of course, but I'm quite puzzled why the obvious has escaped them for
> so long.
Then send them some feedback about their maps. Kvetching here won't do
jack shit about what you perceive as the problem. Too bad you insist on
making perfect the enemy of good.
> To wit:
>
> 1) Lamination means waterproof, tear-proof, and kable.
So, have yours laminated. Duh.
> 2) Spiral-bound means convenience and even more durability.
Spiral bound is fine in a car. It would be a PITA on a bike tour.
> 3) Alternate routes, even if available separately, not only shows
> real expertise and "craftsmanship," but also increases product
> utility.
The maps and routes are developed by people like you, who have ridden
the routes and contact Adventure Cycling to offer correct information.
I sent them corrections for the maps covering the area where I live.
They're very happy to receive that information. If you know a better
route, or an alternate route, send it in. There's no way for Adventure
Cycling to know about local problems such as construction, road closures
due to natural disasters, restaurant closures, etc. unless tourists
using the maps tell them.
If you can't be bothered with being part of the solution, then at least
stop being a bitch.
> 4) Enlarged maps (i.e., map panels) afford better readability and do
> away with the annoying different directional-orientation from panel
> to panel (currently, "north" points every which way from panel to
> panel for space-saving purposes).
Develop a little mental flexibility, dude. It's easy. Space saving is
good- you don't want to be dealing with a 48 x 48 inch map on a windy
day. BTW these are route maps, not area maps. You want a map of an
area, buy one.
> I don't care if the maps are $40 each. I'd get them if they're
> valuable. And I think most anybody else would, too. All bike-lovers
> support bike advocacy (as y'all know, Adventure Cycling is a
> non-profit public-interest organization), so price wouldn't be too
> much of an issue, I believe. Besides, touring cyclists are unlikely
> to begrudge the price of a good map.
And the maps I've gotten from Adventure Cycling have been very good.
|
| |
Date: 20 Aug 2006 21:14:18
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Thomas Wentworth wrote:
> I have used them once or twice.. they were ok. I have done numerous tours
> without them as well.
>
> I doubt I would use them again. Not because of the paper or anything ,,
> just personal preference.
Well, paper quality wasn't my biggest complaint, only the first and
most obvious.
What kinds of "personal preferences"? You mean routes, or what?
Just curious.
|
| |
Date: 20 Aug 2006 21:05:57
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> How could you possibly know any of what you need to do or not to do?
Imagination. Vision. The ability to conceive the future.
> By your own admission, you've never been on a long range bicycle tour.
I've never done many things, but that needn't prevent a successful
first attempt.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 19:43:59
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Oh my. Recycling put-downs from '90s-era usenet flame-fests.
You're another one who needs some tread-tracks on his head.
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 +10dB
>
|
| | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2006 04:24:09
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
I disagree with your mother -- there is no acquiring a taste for you.
God only knows how even your own shadow abides you.
All right, this shit is really lame. I'm retiring for the night...will
see if your Spiel improves any with morning.
R Brickston wrote:
> On 23 Aug 2006 19:37:35 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Oh God, yet another pathetic attempt at a put-down.
> >
> >Then again, your mother did say that you're an acquired taste.
> >
> >
> >
> >R Brickston wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> You were raised soley by your mother, obviously.
>
> True or untrue?
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 08:06:16
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 22 Aug 2006 19:43:59 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Oh my. Recycling put-downs from '90s-era usenet flame-fests.
>
>You're another one who needs some tread-tracks on his head.
>
As if you would could possibly know, junior.
Brrrnnng....!! Brrrnnng....!! Clue Phone.... it's for you, top poster.
|
| | |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 05:22:41
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 20 Aug 2006 21:05:57 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> How could you possibly know any of what you need to do or not to do?
>
>Imagination. Vision. The ability to conceive the future.
It doesn't take much imagination, vision or the ability to conceive
the future, to understand how you will not have a good a tour as your
second one will be.
>
>> By your own admission, you've never been on a long range bicycle tour.
>
>I've never done many things, but that needn't prevent a successful
>first attempt.
See above response.
|
| |
Date: 20 Aug 2006 21:02:54
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Made ya look?
Mike Kruger wrote:
>
> On-topic troll wasn't successful enough so you move to this?
|
| |
Date: 20 Aug 2006 21:11:26
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
In article <1155666488.984635.205780@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> They're printed on plain paper!
Mine aren't. They're printed on heavy coated paper.
> And they're so small, and packed with somewhat superfluous info (who
> the hell cares about restaurants along the way, really).
Anyone who would like to eat when out on tour, perhaps.
> Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or
> printed on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all! Also,
> they really should be bigger -- perhaps better as a spiral-bound
> book? And more comprehensive -- I find googlemaps more useful!
Well, I bought my maps about 2000, so perhaps things have changed. Mine
were very good, both in terms of the material and also the information
on the maps. Sorry to hear you were disappointed.
|
| | |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 08:17:38
From:
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Tim McNaa <timmcn@bitstream.net > wrote:
>
>Well, I bought my maps about 2000, so perhaps things have changed. Mine
>were very good, both in terms of the material and also the information
>on the maps. Sorry to hear you were disappointed.
I just subscribed to Ac so good to hear they sub was
worth it!
|
| | | |
Date: 21 Aug 2006 09:01:21
From: Tim McNamara
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
In article <1jcje25ipno4lq7kps24hst414fnju5ohm@4ax.com >, me@privacy.net
wrote:
> Tim McNaa <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Well, I bought my maps about 2000, so perhaps things have changed.
> >Mine were very good, both in terms of the material and also the
> >information on the maps. Sorry to hear you were disappointed.
>
> I just subscribed to Ac so good to hear they sub was worth it!
I found the maps very good, with well thought out routes that avoided
most of the unpleasantness of urban areas and good scenic value in rural
areas. And I found the construction of the maps to be fine. The
magazine isn't bad either.
|
| |
Date: 19 Aug 2006 00:44:22
From: Thomas Wentworth
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
I have used them once or twice.. they were ok. I have done numerous tours
without them as well.
I doubt I would use them again. Not because of the paper or anything ,,
just personal preference.
------------------------
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1155666488.984635.205780@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> They're printed on plain paper! And they're so small, and packed with
> somewhat superfluous info (who the hell cares about restaurants along
> the way, really).
>
> Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or printed
> on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all! Also, they really
> should be bigger -- perhaps better as a spiral-bound book? And more
> comprehensive -- I find googlemaps more useful!
>
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 17:17:16
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
> >
> >
> > But is it waterproof?
> >
> > --
> > Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com
> > Brooklyn, NY
>
>
> It's foolproof! Treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a
> queen....
>
> Oh, here's another helpful thing for her on long journeys:
>
>
> http://www.exalte.com/SexToysArticle/151
Reminiscent of a device from the now defunct HRS blog!
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 12:07:16
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> I doubt then that you'll be "just remember[ing] key junctions and
> turns."
I have a good memory. I study the route beforehand. I even scour the
web for pictures! That's what I'm currently doing, reading up on
others' similar rides, then checking out their routes, then looking for
images of the locales, especially critical junctions and turns.
Also, I must say, I don't mind getting a bit lost. At least during my
one-day trips (which can be as long as fifteen hours) -- I know of the
main route, and bear in mind that it's on my right, say, and just kinda
zig-zag along as desired. I've never understood cue sheets and other
such items on the handlebar. Except a really well-programmed GPS
system, I don't see how people spend their time consulting the map.
It's supposed to be an adventure! Just remember the critical stuff --
the dead-ends and such -- but otherwise, you really can't get "lost."
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 12:42:52
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
You're not so bad yourself now.
"25 cents, please."
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> He's right again. This guy is batting 100%.
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 19:37:35
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Oh God, yet another pathetic attempt at a put-down.
Then again, your mother did say that you're an acquired taste.
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> You were raised soley by your mother, obviously.
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2006 02:41:30
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 23 Aug 2006 19:37:35 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Oh God, yet another pathetic attempt at a put-down.
>
>Then again, your mother did say that you're an acquired taste.
>
>
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> You were raised soley by your mother, obviously.
True or untrue?
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 01:22:29
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 22 Aug 2006 12:42:52 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>You're not so bad yourself now.
>
>
>"25 cents, please."
>
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 +10dB
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 20:39:48
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 18 Aug 2006 12:07:16 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> I doubt then that you'll be "just remember[ing] key junctions and
>> turns."
>
>
>I have a good memory. I study the route beforehand. I even scour the
>web for pictures! That's what I'm currently doing, reading up on
>others' similar rides, then checking out their routes, then looking for
>images of the locales, especially critical junctions and turns.
>
>Also, I must say, I don't mind getting a bit lost. At least during my
>one-day trips (which can be as long as fifteen hours) -- I know of the
>main route, and bear in mind that it's on my right, say, and just kinda
>zig-zag along as desired. I've never understood cue sheets and other
>such items on the handlebar. Except a really well-programmed GPS
>system, I don't see how people spend their time consulting the map.
>
>It's supposed to be an adventure! Just remember the critical stuff --
>the dead-ends and such -- but otherwise, you really can't get "lost."
How could you possibly know any of what you need to do or not to do?
By your own admission, you've never been on a long range bicycle tour.
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 11:28:10
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Many, many thanks. I know about all those resources, but I appreciate
your collecting them together in one post for posterity. I'd only
imagined that AC maps would "have it all" since they've been around so
long -- but I guess the reigning philosophy behind them is "if it ain't
broke, don't fix it." As it is, they are but one more resource. I
just assumed too much about them.
The HP Velo SMGTe, as per your last link, is a great 'bent, however --
just about what I'd imagined! Very glad to hear they fit on bus
bike-racks out front.
Thanks again.
Jon Meinecke wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote
> > I'm up for adventure...intelligent adventure...was hoping
> > these AC maps would help in that regard...as it is, they're better than
> > nothing -- but gosh, that's a pretty low standard....
>
> Consider the AC maps as route research, and one data point.
> If you like their routes, or parts of them, but not their map format,
> buy or print maps in the format you like and plan the route
> yourself.
>
> For other data points, and route suggestions, join a bicycle touring
> mailing list or discussion group. Search or browse the archives at
>
> http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/touring
>
> Check out:
>
> http://www.crazyguyonabike.com
>
> If you're interested in recumbent-specific touring issues, there
> are a number of recumbent tour reports there. There's also
> a touring message board at:
>
> http://www.bentrideronline.com
>
> Here's a cyclist riding a HP Velo Street Machine GTe down the
> California coast.
>
> http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=21162
>
> Jon Meinecke
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:42:39
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>
>
> But is it waterproof?
>
> --
> Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com
> Brooklyn, NY
It's foolproof! Treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a
queen....
Oh, here's another helpful thing for her on long journeys:
http://www.exalte.com/SexToysArticle/151
|
| | |
Date: 19 Aug 2006 14:19:02
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1155915759.823136.314370@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>>
>>
>> But is it waterproof?
>>
>> --
>> Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com
>> Brooklyn, NY
>
>
> It's foolproof! Treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a
> queen....
>
> Oh, here's another helpful thing for her on long journeys:
>
>
> http://www.exalte.com/SexToysArticle/151
>
On-topic troll wasn't successful enough so you move to this?
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:00:49
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
> A real bike trip is only 50% enjoyment. The other 50% is pure aggravation.
Hehe, no wonder they don't mind 3x4-inch map panels!
> This is why tourists pay the big bucks to others to look after them. No one
> should ever go on a bike trip unless you have a sense of adventure.
That's me! I'm up for adventure...intelligent adventure...was hoping
these AC maps would help in that regard...as it is, they're better than
nothing -- but gosh, that's a pretty low standard....
> It is
> mostly something that only a young person should do. By the time you are my
> age you are permanently pissed off at just about everything and are no
> longer fit for travel of any kind.
Who'd ever have thought Saint Ed was actually the original hell on
wheels!
All you need is a fine young female thing to ride...with you! She'll
make the stars seem bright as fireworks at night, and make them appear
like multiple suns during the day! May I suggest a latina? I have the
map to their hearts....
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 11:04:19
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote
> I'm up for adventure...intelligent adventure...was hoping
> these AC maps would help in that regard...as it is, they're better than
> nothing -- but gosh, that's a pretty low standard....
Consider the AC maps as route research, and one data point.
If you like their routes, or parts of them, but not their map format,
buy or print maps in the format you like and plan the route
yourself.
For other data points, and route suggestions, join a bicycle touring
mailing list or discussion group. Search or browse the archives at
http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/touring
Check out:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com
If you're interested in recumbent-specific touring issues, there
are a number of recumbent tour reports there. There's also
a touring message board at:
http://www.bentrideronline.com
Here's a cyclist riding a HP Velo Street Machine GTe down the
California coast.
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=21162
Jon Meinecke
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 15:16:00
From: Steven M. O'Neill
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
NYC XYZ <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
>All you need is a fine young female thing to ride...with you! She'll
>make the stars seem bright as fireworks at night, and make them appear
>like multiple suns during the day! May I suggest a latina? I have the
>map to their hearts....
But is it waterproof?
--
Steven O'Neill steveo@panix.com
Brooklyn, NY
|
| |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 07:50:52
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
I've not been on any over-night tours, sure.
Do I need to get burned before I say Acme-brand fire extinguishers
suck?
I'll be riding to Philly from NYC later this year. Next year, to DC
and, depending, Florida.
I'll be on my way soon enough. Just thought these Adventure Cycling
maps were a big deal.
They're just the only deal going, is all.
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> You gave yourself away; you've never been on a real bike trip.
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 09:58:58
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Why is logic so amazing? Logic is pretty lazy, if you think about it.
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> Damn! You're absolutely right, yet *again*. Amazing.
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 19:08:17
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
That's supposed to be a put-down?
You can recycle one of mine, then. I mean, since you're googling me
and all.
BTW, a little more to the left...c'mon, you obviously know how I like
it!
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> Right. Speaking of googling someone, look at this post of yours:
>
> "I look like a Greco-Roman statue, think like Socrates, and have all
> the blood-thirst of a socio-path."
>
> I guess one out of three is the best you are capable of, unfortunately
> it doesn't have anything to do with ancient art or philosophy.
> alt.loneliness indeed.
|
| | | | |
Date: 24 Aug 2006 02:18:21
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 23 Aug 2006 19:08:17 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>That's supposed to be a put-down?
>
>You can recycle one of mine, then. I mean, since you're googling me
>and all.
>
>BTW, a little more to the left...c'mon, you obviously know how I like
>it!
You were raised soley by your mother, obviously.
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> Right. Speaking of googling someone, look at this post of yours:
>>
>> "I look like a Greco-Roman statue, think like Socrates, and have all
>> the blood-thirst of a socio-path."
>>
>> I guess one out of three is the best you are capable of, unfortunately
>> it doesn't have anything to do with ancient art or philosophy.
>> alt.loneliness indeed.
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 17:29:08
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 22 Aug 2006 09:58:58 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Why is logic so amazing? Logic is pretty lazy, if you think about it.
>
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> Damn! You're absolutely right, yet *again*. Amazing.
He's right again. This guy is batting 100%.
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 18:54:39
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 18 Aug 2006 07:50:52 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>I've not been on any over-night tours, sure.
>
>Do I need to get burned before I say Acme-brand fire extinguishers
>suck?
>
>I'll be riding to Philly from NYC later this year. Next year, to DC
>and, depending, Florida.
I doubt then that you'll be "just remember[ing] key junctions and
turns."
>>my time looking around
>
>I'll be on my way soon enough. Just thought these Adventure Cycling
>maps were a big deal.
>
>They're just the only deal going, is all.
>
>
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> You gave yourself away; you've never been on a real bike trip.
|
| |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 15:15:25
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Your point?
joseph.santaniello@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Like when you were tooling around in the office when you got your new
> 'bent?
>
> "Let's see, right at the water cooler, past the johns, right at HR and
> a long straight and I'm back! Hmm.. Interesting perspective from down
> here..."
>
> ;-P
>
> Joseph
|
| |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 14:18:53
From:
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
> your handlebars. Me, I just remember key junctions and turns. Spend
> my time looking around, you know?
Like when you were tooling around in the office when you got your new
'bent?
"Let's see, right at the water cooler, past the johns, right at HR and
a long straight and I'm back! Hmm.. Interesting perspective from down
here..."
;-P
Joseph
|
| |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 14:03:08
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
capri142@usa.com wrote:
> And you are somewhat of an idiot.
Well, you're definitely a pussy since you can't properly insult someone
without tip-toeing about it.
> The maps are indeed on paper but you can spill coffe or most anything
> slese on them and it wipes riught off so I really doubt that you evevn
> have them.
Yeah, the first thing I do when I get a map is spill water on it to see
if it's waterproof.
Should I try burning it, too?
> They are meticulously researched for the best routes for cyclists to
> take.
Ayup, all that meticulous research in a 3x4 inch panel. What, there's
a shortage of waterproof paper, or are adventure cyclists really cheap
bastards?
> the next time you ride cross country wihich is proibably rather
> unlikely.
Yeah, I don't wear spandex or helmets or gloves or clipless shoes.
> just use any old road map you happen to have. or just a road
> atlas. that will be real easy to read as you are riding.
That's another thing -- you people actually mount a goddamned map on
your handlebars. Me, I just remember key junctions and turns. Spend
my time looking around, you know?
|
| | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 07:30:18
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Which is, of course, merely another way of saying that *you're* never
wrong.
Just what is it with you sissies? You think people can't parse your
passive-agressive bullshit?
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> Reading all your responses on this topic, I just realized that you're
> one of those rare individuals that are never wrong. Good luck (not
> that you'll need it, of course).
|
| | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 11:02:17
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Wow, most women wonder whether their husbands are online downloading
porn.
Yours is wondering why you're online googling me!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
R Brickston wrote:
>
>
> Right. Speaking of getting real, is this what you call "real?"
>
> "I look like a Greco-Roman statue, think like Socrates, and have all
> the blood-thirst of a socio-path."
>
> I have to agree, I call it real too, as in you're a real bozo.
|
| | | | |
Date: 23 Aug 2006 21:58:08
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 23 Aug 2006 11:02:17 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Wow, most women wonder whether their husbands are online downloading
>porn.
>
>Yours is wondering why you're online googling me!
>
>LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
>
Right. Speaking of googling someone, look at this post of yours:
"I look like a Greco-Roman statue, think like Socrates, and have all
the blood-thirst of a socio-path."
I guess one out of three is the best you are capable of, unfortunately
it doesn't have anything to do with ancient art or philosophy.
alt.loneliness indeed.
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Aug 2006 14:57:44
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 22 Aug 2006 07:30:18 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Which is, of course, merely another way of saying that *you're* never
>wrong.
>
>Just what is it with you sissies? You think people can't parse your
>passive-agressive bullshit?
>
Damn! You're absolutely right, yet *again*. Amazing.
>
>
>R Brickston wrote:
>>
>>
>> Reading all your responses on this topic, I just realized that you're
>> one of those rare individuals that are never wrong. Good luck (not
>> that you'll need it, of course).
|
| | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 07:33:01
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On 17 Aug 2006 14:03:08 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>capri142@usa.com wrote:
>> And you are somewhat of an idiot.
>
>Well, you're definitely a pussy since you can't properly insult someone
>without tip-toeing about it.
>
>> The maps are indeed on paper but you can spill coffe or most anything
>> slese on them and it wipes riught off so I really doubt that you evevn
>> have them.
>
>Yeah, the first thing I do when I get a map is spill water on it to see
>if it's waterproof.
>
>Should I try burning it, too?
>
>> They are meticulously researched for the best routes for cyclists to
>> take.
>
>Ayup, all that meticulous research in a 3x4 inch panel. What, there's
>a shortage of waterproof paper, or are adventure cyclists really cheap
>bastards?
>
>> the next time you ride cross country wihich is proibably rather
>> unlikely.
>
>Yeah, I don't wear spandex or helmets or gloves or clipless shoes.
>
>> just use any old road map you happen to have. or just a road
>> atlas. that will be real easy to read as you are riding.
>
>That's another thing -- you people actually mount a goddamned map on
>your handlebars. Me, I just remember key junctions and turns. Spend
>my time looking around, you know?
You gave yourself away; you've never been on a real bike trip.
|
| | | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 03:53:31
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
"R Brickston" <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ > wrote in message
news:l7rae2dgu0fk0gfjnkihibrljts3lrq8g3@4ax.com...
> On 17 Aug 2006 14:03:08 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
[...]
>>That's another thing -- you people actually mount a goddamned map on
>>your handlebars. Me, I just remember key junctions and turns. Spend
>>my time looking around, you know?
>
> You gave yourself away; you've never been on a real bike trip.
A real bike trip is only 50% enjoyment. The other 50% is pure aggravation.
This is why tourists pay the big bucks to others to look after them. No one
should ever go on a bike trip unless you have a sense of adventure. It is
mostly something that only a young person should do. By the time you are my
age you are permanently pissed off at just about everything and are no
longer fit for travel of any kind.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | |
Date: 18 Aug 2006 18:58:41
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:53:31 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
>
>"R Brickston" <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote in message
>news:l7rae2dgu0fk0gfjnkihibrljts3lrq8g3@4ax.com...
>> On 17 Aug 2006 14:03:08 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>[...]
>>>That's another thing -- you people actually mount a goddamned map on
>>>your handlebars. Me, I just remember key junctions and turns. Spend
>>>my time looking around, you know?
>>
>> You gave yourself away; you've never been on a real bike trip.
>
>A real bike trip is only 50% enjoyment. The other 50% is pure aggravation.
True for some, but with experience you can cut that aggravation down
to 10 or 20%. Most of this reduction, at least in my case, comes down
to reducing what you carry, having the proper equipment and
researching the trip before you hit the road.
>This is why tourists pay the big bucks to others to look after them. No one
>should ever go on a bike trip unless you have a sense of adventure. It is
>mostly something that only a young person should do. By the time you are my
>age you are permanently pissed off at just about everything and are no
>longer fit for travel of any kind.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
|
| | |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 21:48:24
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1155848588.912938.215050@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
[...]
>> just use any old road map you happen to have. or just a road
>> atlas. that will be real easy to read as you are riding.
The old Gousha state maps the gas stations used to give you for free were
the best maps ever. Rand McNally never knew how to make a map that anyone
would ever want to look at.
> That's another thing -- you people actually mount a goddamned map on
> your handlebars. Me, I just remember key junctions and turns. Spend
> my time looking around, you know?
Screw that handlebar crap. Carry your maps in your panniers and stop and
check them out when you need to. Anyone passing by seeing you looking at a
map will want to stop and help you out. It will give you an opportunity to
have some very nice conversations with the locals. All locals take a certain
pride in their locality and will be delighted to tell you more than you will
ever want to know provided you show some interest and enthusiasm. Isn't that
what adventure cycling is all about? Be sure to thank them whether you have
obtained any useful information or not.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 09:48:29
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Ron Wallenfang wrote:
> I have a rather different take. The maps are fine; it's the routes I didn't
> especially like. IMHO, their routes take too many secondary roads that, on
> the whole, are rougher, hillier, more bereft of services, and with a greater
> incidence of aggressive dogs, than the US highways I prefer. That's a big
> price to pay to get reduced traffic, and I'm far from convinced it's any
> safer, because the US highways usually have at least partially paved
> shoulders. My "ideal" route is a US highway running rather near an
> Interstate. The I road gets the thru traffic, the US highway is still a
> good road, the width of the right of way and amount of traffic deters dogs,
> and the motels and other services at the I-exits are readily accessible.
Interesting!
Hmm...now I'm really curious...I wonder if there should be different
editions of these maps...rougher and hillier? Interesting.
|
| |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 09:10:52
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Rick wrote:
>
>
> 1) All paper is not created equal. The paper we wrote notes on in a
> previous career was constructed so that it became 'oatmeal' when
> exposed to liquid - good for its purpose. The paper that Adventure
> Cycling uses for the maps is waterproof. Not plain paper ...
> waterproof paper.
Glad to hear this. Still too easily damaged. This ain't an auto-map
for use in a car, after all. We're talking adventure cycling!
> 2) Some of us do like to stop at restaurants, at least on occasions.
> The maps are not just for the oatmeal and gruel crowd.
This information is easily available. Just clutters up the map, and
necessitates updating.
> And if they are bigger or spiral bound into a book how would you fit
> them into your handlebar map holder?
What I'd meant by "bigger" was the map panels. No reason to be so
small. Each panel could be the size of that handlebar map holder, and
spiral-bound for convenience when it comes to changing the panel.
> And how useful is Google Maps from the handlebar of your bike?
I was referring to researching a route, typically done before the
expedition.
But why is everything done from the handlebar of the bike? And if they
are, how come those maps (i.e., map panels) are so friggin' small???
> - rick
|
| |
Date: 17 Aug 2006 07:40:04
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
>
>
> [massive list of groups trimmed]
[Pertinent x-posting restored.]
> Um, tourists looking to eat?
What's wrong with asking around once you're there? Sure saves on
having to amend things everytime some joint moves or closes.
>These are meant for touring, not for detailed
> commuting-type usage or for side trips.
Really cuts down on their utility. Especially since "touring"
ordinarily involves "side trips" -- the charm of adventure is
discovery, but the point of a map is to take care of some of the
"logistics" of that.
> Plain paper is probably to keep costs
> down. Get a large zip-top bag or a map holder from REI, and they'll be
> protected.
Oh come on, some one has the money to do a bicycle tour but doesn't
have money for a good quality map?
> They're meant to map a single route, not an entire area in detail. And if
> they're too big, they won't fit standard map holders. I can't imagine trying to
> mount a spiral-bound notebook to my handlebars, though I'm sure /someone/ has
> done it.
Sure you can -- it's only a few panels per map. Besides, just what
good are such small map panels, then, on a handle-bar mount??
> Methinks your expectations were high. That's not generally a bad thing, but in
> this case, they seem to be a bit higher than warranted.
I dunno..."adventure cycling" connotes "rugged" to me, not "plain
paper" or "small maps" or "pretty general info"....
> --
>
> __o Kristian Zoerhoff
> _'\(,_ kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com
> (_)/ (_)
Do these maps have no competition, then? Absolutely none?? 'Cause God
forbid you actually have an adventure and wander off the itinerary!
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 02:39:56
From: Ron Wallenfang
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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I have a rather different take. The maps are fine; it's the routes I didn't
especially like. IMHO, their routes take too many secondary roads that, on
the whole, are rougher, hillier, more bereft of services, and with a greater
incidence of aggressive dogs, than the US highways I prefer. That's a big
price to pay to get reduced traffic, and I'm far from convinced it's any
safer, because the US highways usually have at least partially paved
shoulders. My "ideal" route is a US highway running rather near an
Interstate. The I road gets the thru traffic, the US highway is still a
good road, the width of the right of way and amount of traffic deters dogs,
and the motels and other services at the I-exits are readily accessible.
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1155666488.984635.205780@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> They're printed on plain paper! And they're so small, and packed with
> somewhat superfluous info (who the hell cares about restaurants along
> the way, really).
>
> Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or printed
> on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all! Also, they really
> should be bigger -- perhaps better as a spiral-bound book? And more
> comprehensive -- I find googlemaps more useful!
>
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 17:12:22
From: Thomas Wentworth
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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Just wondering ??? Can one purchase the Adventure Tour maps on a CD Rom?
With so many carrying laptops on tour these days, the maps are rather
superfluous. I know, I know ,,, would not be able to get the map out during
the day. And, I don't think I would carry a printer. But, if I was to
carry a laptop and with the CD Rom .. just a thought.
Thing about laptops, you can use them for so much. Emails, look stuff up
,,, but best of all.. Watch movies in your tent at night. I love this.
=========
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1155666488.984635.205780@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> They're printed on plain paper! And they're so small, and packed with
> somewhat superfluous info (who the hell cares about restaurants along
> the way, really).
>
> Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or printed
> on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all! Also, they really
> should be bigger -- perhaps better as a spiral-bound book? And more
> comprehensive -- I find googlemaps more useful!
>
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 01:22:57
From: Jerry
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in
news:1155666488.984635.205780@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> They're printed on plain paper! And they're so small, and packed
> with somewhat superfluous info (who the hell cares about
> restaurants along the way, really).
>
> Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or
> printed on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all!
> Also, they really should be bigger -- perhaps better as a
> spiral-bound book? And more comprehensive -- I find googlemaps
> more useful!
>
>
Adventure Cycling Maps are fabulous and essential. Wouldn't leave home
without one. Opinion based on more than 4000 miles of fully-loaded
self contained touring the last 18 months.
You?
--jerry
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:57:18
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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Rick wrote:
> ....
> And how useful is Google Maps from the handlebar of your bike?
One must carry a laptop on tour so one can read and post to the Usenet
cycling groups while at rest stops. ;)
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 23:15:26
From: recycled-one
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1155686238.151832.287200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rick wrote:
>> ....
>> And how useful is Google Maps from the handlebar of your bike?
>
> One must carry a laptop on tour so one can read and post to the Usenet
> cycling groups while at rest stops. ;)
I've often fantasized about a dream bike with handlebar mounted notebook pc
with cell/satellite connections.
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 17:45:19
From: Gary Fritz
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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"recycled-one" <u-lock@hotmail.com > wrote:
>> One must carry a laptop on tour so one can read and post to the
>> Usenet cycling groups while at rest stops. ;)
>
> I've often fantasized about a dream bike with handlebar mounted
> notebook pc with cell/satellite connections.
It's been done -- 23 years ago, in fact.
See http://microship.com/bike/winnebiko/across.html, part of a site that
describes the adventures of Steve Roberts, bike nomad extraordinaire. In
1983 he hit the road on a recumbent loaded with with, among other things, a
Radio Shack Model 100 laptop and a radio link to Compuserve. (Though
usually he had to depend on phone links to upload/download his email.) The
bike's loaded weight varied from 135 to 195 lbs (ouch!!) during the 10,000
miles he rode it.
Within a few years he evolved his bike to include several computers, a
packet-radio networking connection, a specialized chording keyboard on the
handlebars that allowed him to write while riding, motion-sensing security
system and Votrax speech synthesizer ("Please do not touch me!" :-) and
lots more. The guy was nuts. It's pretty amazing reading.
Gary
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 09:48:03
From: Rich Clark
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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"recycled-one" <u-lock@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:ebu2jp$vhf$1@news.datemas.de...
>
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1155686238.151832.287200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>> ....
>>> And how useful is Google Maps from the handlebar of your bike?
>>
>> One must carry a laptop on tour so one can read and post to the Usenet
>> cycling groups while at rest stops. ;)
>
> I've often fantasized about a dream bike with handlebar mounted notebook
> pc with cell/satellite connections.
Sounds more like a nighte to me -- in which the next thing is that I have
to start answering urgent emails from the office while doing a solo century
through Lancaster County!
RichC (who does carry a cell phone on rides, but it's turned OFF!)
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Date: 17 Aug 2006 14:35:05
From: David Kerber
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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In article <X-ednXbWXcmRv37ZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com >,
rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net says...
...
> RichC (who does carry a cell phone on rides, but it's turned OFF!)
I leave mine on, but only stop to check who called after I'm at a safe
place to pull it out of my pocket. Then I only return calls from my
family...
--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
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Date: 16 Aug 2006 10:31:53
From: recycled-one
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
|
"Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net > wrote in message
news:X-ednXbWXcmRv37ZnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "recycled-one" <u-lock@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ebu2jp$vhf$1@news.datemas.de...
>>
>> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1155686238.151832.287200@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Rick wrote:
>>>> ....
>>>> And how useful is Google Maps from the handlebar of your bike?
>>>
>>> One must carry a laptop on tour so one can read and post to the Usenet
>>> cycling groups while at rest stops. ;)
>>
>> I've often fantasized about a dream bike with handlebar mounted notebook
>> pc with cell/satellite connections.
>
> Sounds more like a nighte to me -- in which the next thing is that I
> have to start answering urgent emails from the office while doing a solo
> century through Lancaster County!
That isn't a concern for me, but I can see how it might be a negative for
those with employers demanding all-the-time access. OTOH wouldn't it be cool
to be able to cycle when you are on the clock and doing your job?
Ideally the device would be between a notebook computer and a
Blackberry/Trio in size with some sort of dual thumb controls. It goes
without saying that it would have to be weather and shock resistant.
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 16:38:15
From: Rick
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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NYC XYZ wrote:
> They're printed on plain paper! And they're so small, and packed with
> somewhat superfluous info (who the hell cares about restaurants along
> the way, really).
1) All paper is not created equal. The paper we wrote notes on in a
previous career was constructed so that it became 'oatmeal' when
exposed to liquid - good for its purpose. The paper that Adventure
Cycling uses for the maps is waterproof. Not plain paper ...
waterproof paper.
2) Some of us do like to stop at restaurants, at least on occasions.
The maps are not just for the oatmeal and gruel crowd.
> Just disappointed. They should be laminated, at the least, or printed
> on sturdier paper -- this is for touring, after all! Also, they really
> should be bigger -- perhaps better as a spiral-bound book?
And if they are bigger or spiral bound into a book how would you fit
them into your handlebar map holder?
> And more
> comprehensive -- I find googlemaps more useful!
And how useful is Google Maps from the handlebar of your bike?
- rick
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Date: 15 Aug 2006 14:18:03
From:
Subject: Re: Adventure Cycling Maps SUCK!
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And you are somewhat of an idiot.
The maps are indeed on paper but you can spill coffe or most anything
slese on them and it wipes riught off so I really doubt that you evevn
have them.
They are meticulously researched for the best routes for cyclists to
take. the next time you ride cross country wihich is proibably rather
unlikely. just use any old road map you happen to have. or just a road
atlas. that will be real easy to read as you are riding.
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