| |
Main
Date: 12 Mar 2006 21:52:50
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
I think I read in one of the RCN back-issues that certain 'bents
naturally provide an abdominal workout! Anyone notice?? I can't
remember which design, though for some reason I'm thinking low-racer.
|
|
| |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 10:26:36
From: Vee
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Peter Clinch wrote:
<snip >
> No "nudging of thighs" to be done to lean a bike into a turn, or that
> I've ever noticed, so no need to imagine it. I think your imagination
> is a bit too active for your own good sometimes, as it seems to throw up
> all sorts of problems that aren't there!
Throw up is right. I've never thought about this before... when your
nose runs on a regular bike, it just drips away harmlessly. Do
recumbent riders have to contend with snot streaking across their
faces?
Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
this whole thing is just a hoax.
-Vee
|
| | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 13:56:27
From: Kurt Fischer
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Vee <v.powell@excite.com > wrote:
> Do recumbent riders have to contend with snot streaking across their
> faces?
Not in my experience.
> Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
> website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
> technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
> this whole thing is just a hoax.
If you want to see a rowing bike in action, go to the following page and
click on "Course Future-Bike à genéve 2002"
http://www.m5france.com/Video.html
Also included: several lowracers (RazzFazz, M5, Birkenstock) and a
back-to-back-tandem.
Kurt
|
| | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 10:29:01
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
In article <1142360796.433150.173940@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com >, Vee
(v.powell@excite.com) wrote:
> Throw up is right. I've never thought about this before... when your
> nose runs on a regular bike, it just drips away harmlessly. Do
> recumbent riders have to contend with snot streaking across their
> faces?
Nope. Doesn't run at all, in my experience.
--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ >
Jack Hackett for Pope, next time!
|
| | |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 20:39:54
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Vee wrote:
> Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
> website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
> technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
> this whole thing is just a hoax.
A Thys rowbike was the first recumbent finisher in a recent
Paris-Brest-Paris, so pretty amazing for a hoax!
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 01:29:15
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
> Vee wrote:
>> Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
>> website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
>> technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
>> this whole thing is just a hoax.
Peter Clinch wrote:
> A Thys rowbike was the first recumbent finisher in a recent
> Paris-Brest-Paris, so pretty amazing for a hoax!
I thought this was about abdominal muscles:
http://www.mowerciser.com/indextemp.html
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 15:26:22
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
On Wed, 15 2006 01:29:15 -0600, A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org >
wrote:
>> Vee wrote:
>>> Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
>>> website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
>>> technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
>>> this whole thing is just a hoax.
>
>Peter Clinch wrote:
>> A Thys rowbike was the first recumbent finisher in a recent
>> Paris-Brest-Paris, so pretty amazing for a hoax!
>
>I thought this was about abdominal muscles:
>http://www.mowerciser.com/indextemp.html
That device's maker claims that it provides a total body workout, not
just abs. In my area, it would merely provide frustration; between
the mower-jamming oak twigs and the lush mixture of grasses, a
human-powered reel-type mower is a device that will soon have the user
calling a lawn service. (I've seen people buy them around here once
in a while, but they swiftly discover that a week's worth of rain will
create a level of grass growth that such a mower is unable to
address.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 13:02:58
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
"Vee" <v.powell@excite.com > wrote
> Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
> website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
> technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
> this whole thing is just a hoax.
I don't know the particular "row bike" previously mentioned,
but I do know someone who owns a Rowbike brand one
(http://www.rowbike.com/). As far as I know, Rowbike does not claim
"superb aerodynamically qualities". In fact, they do admit/claim
their bike:
- Burns approximately 50% more calories than ordinary biking
- Provides nearly twice the cardiovascular benefits as ordinary biking
It definitely has a learning curve associated with it. I saw the
owner ride it and two other people try it. I declined to try it... %^P
Jon Meinecke
|
| | | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 15:31:51
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
On Tue, 14 2006 13:02:58 -0600, "Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@none.non >
wrote:
>"Vee" <v.powell@excite.com> wrote
>
>> Another observation that really has nothing to do with your post: the
>> website's claim that the rowbike is "full of well-considerated and new
>> technology" and has "superb aerodynamical qualities" makes me suspect
>> this whole thing is just a hoax.
>
>I don't know the particular "row bike" previously mentioned,
>but I do know someone who owns a Rowbike brand one
>(http://www.rowbike.com/). As far as I know, Rowbike does not claim
>"superb aerodynamically qualities". In fact, they do admit/claim
>their bike:
>
>- Burns approximately 50% more calories than ordinary biking
>- Provides nearly twice the cardiovascular benefits as ordinary biking
>
>It definitely has a learning curve associated with it. I saw the
>owner ride it and two other people try it. I declined to try it... %^P
The other one cited has a much less upright position, and more closely
mimics the rowing position and technique used in a racing shell. As
is almost always the case with advertising claims, they're probably
puffing up the description quite a bit with glittering generalities
and misleading or invented "statistics", but my impression is that of
the two, the Rowbike would be much slower.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| | | | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 11:04:39
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
"Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote
> "Jon Meinecke" wrote:
>>[www.rowbike.com]
>>- Burns approximately 50% more calories than ordinary biking
>>- Provides nearly twice the cardiovascular benefits as ordinary biking
>>
>
> The other one cited has a much less upright position, and more closely
> mimics the rowing position and technique used in a racing shell. As
> is almost always the case with advertising claims, they're probably
> puffing up the description quite a bit with glittering generalities
> and misleading or invented "statistics", but my impression is that of
> the two, the Rowbike would be much slower.
Yes certainly slower, by design! %^)
The claim of burning 50% more calories than ordinary biking
is an interesting keting claim. Easy to accomplish the same
thing with an ordinary bike and intentionally dragging brakes! %^P
Full body workout, is the better claim for RowBike.
One presumes, a bike design that could efficiently recruit more
muscles for propulsion could be faster than a bike that employs
fewer muscles. It's the efficiency issue that's challenging, but
the laid-back Thyes rowing bike tends more in that direction
than the RowBike, almost certainly.
I wonder, is there's anything in the periodic use/rest cycle of
rowing motion that might also improve rider power or endurance?
Jon Meinecke
|
| | | | | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 19:36:29
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
On Wed, 15 2006 11:04:39 -0600, "Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@none.non >
wrote:
>"Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote
>> "Jon Meinecke" wrote:
>>>[www.rowbike.com]
>>>- Burns approximately 50% more calories than ordinary biking
>>>- Provides nearly twice the cardiovascular benefits as ordinary biking
>>>
>>
>> The other one cited has a much less upright position, and more closely
>> mimics the rowing position and technique used in a racing shell. As
>> is almost always the case with advertising claims, they're probably
>> puffing up the description quite a bit with glittering generalities
>> and misleading or invented "statistics", but my impression is that of
>> the two, the Rowbike would be much slower.
>
>Yes certainly slower, by design! %^)
>
>The claim of burning 50% more calories than ordinary biking
>is an interesting keting claim.
Yeah, 50% more relative to what? By comparison to the number burned
over the same speed and distance? That would certainly be an
admission that would send people off to the other products in a hurry
if they thought about it. Besides, it's been pretty well esytablished
that the limiting and determining factor in how many calories get
burned is the engine, not the device; if the rider wants to achieve a
higher output, *any* bike will facilitate that.
>Easy to accomplish the same
>thing with an ordinary bike and intentionally dragging brakes!
Or just go faster!
>%^P
>Full body workout, is the better claim for RowBike.
Even that doesn't really look valid; the legs flex very little, and
the motion doesn't look like it would do much with the abdominals
either. To me, it's a back-and-arms beast, and doesn't even get to
all of the muscles in the arms. It it used a push-pull resistance,
they'd have more of a basis for the claims.
>One presumes, a bike design that could efficiently recruit more
>muscles for propulsion could be faster than a bike that employs
>fewer muscles. It's the efficiency issue that's challenging, but
>the laid-back Thyes rowing bike tends more in that direction
>than the RowBike, almost certainly.
That's my impression; the Thyes uses more than just the arms and back
for motion generation, and the laid-back position seems likely to
present less drag as well. Of course, the cardio limit will still
determine the maximum absolute output that can be achieved, and
bringing more muscles into the mix will only allow a brief burst of
higher power before anaerobic operation begins, with all its
penalties.
>I wonder, is there's anything in the periodic use/rest cycle of
>rowing motion that might also improve rider power or endurance?
I have never encountered anything to suggest that this is the case.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Mar 2006 06:48:35
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
"Werehatrack" <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net > wrote
> "Jon Meinecke" wrote:
>>I wonder, is there's anything in the periodic use/rest cycle of
>>rowing motion that might also improve rider power or endurance?
>
> I have never encountered anything to suggest that this is the case.
Nor have I. Likely nothing to it.
But there are techniques used for hiking (the resting step) that some
assert permit a periodic muscle resting phase to enhance endurance...
http://www.ideagardens.com/html/resting_step.html These possible
benefits seem to be related to fatigue at low/aerobic exertion and I
don't know how effective they are...
Thanks for the link to the Hula Bike! Some place, I've seen another
similar design.
Jon Meinecke
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 20:49:41
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Werehatrack wrote:
> That's my impression; the Thyes uses more than just the arms and back
> for motion generation, and the laid-back position seems likely to
> present less drag as well. Of course, the cardio limit will still
> determine the maximum absolute output that can be achieved, and
> bringing more muscles into the mix will only allow a brief burst of
> higher power before anaerobic operation begins, with all its
> penalties.
It may be the case that by using more muscles you can extend the
total endurance. Staying aerobic you will, as you note, not get
above the level you could do with your legs alone, but ultimately,
even staying as aerobic as possible, one's legs just get very, very
tired, so it could be worth spreading it around a bit in order to
sustain the peak aerobic output longer. But I imagine you'd need
to have arms used to that sort of workout, or needing them along to
some degree for every stroke could end up being a limit rather than
an asset.
>> I wonder, is there's anything in the periodic use/rest cycle of
>> rowing motion that might also improve rider power or endurance?
>
> I have never encountered anything to suggest that this is the case.
I'm inclined to agree: I can't think of any system that doesn't
work better with a sustained and constant input (a slight tangent
into rowing on water, kayaks can be made to rise onto a hydrofoil
thanks to their more regular stroke pattern compared to traditional
rowing (see http://www.foilkayak.com/), even though an individual
rowing stroke is probably much more powerful than a pair of kayak
strokes (though maybe hydrodynamic wing effects possible with
modern kayaking equipment and technique offsets this).
One place the Thys might score is a little less aerodynamic
turbulence around the crank area with no whirling pedals, but (a)
that's a complete guess and (b) you can ignore it anyway if you've
got a front fairing on.
Must see if I can find one to play on next time I'm over in the NL...
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Mar 2006 07:06:10
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk >
> I'm inclined to agree: I can't think of any system that doesn't work
> better with a sustained and constant input
Skating? %^) [artifact or process limitation, of course]
But, think of speed skaters, alternating pushes and varying
glides, particularly in the long endurance races... Couldn't
that be physiologically different in demand to cycling? And
couldn't we be better adapted or worse adapted to certain
types of exertion? Aerobic limits ultimately limiting, of
course.
One of Canada's speed skating medalists also has a summer
Olympic medal for cycling, doesn't she?
Jon Meinecke
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Mar 2006 13:25:51
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Jon Meinecke wrote:
> But, think of speed skaters, alternating pushes and varying
> glides,
Not /completely/ unlike the cyclist getting most of his/her power
pushing the pedal down, while the other gets a relative rest...
But if you could get much mileage out of pedalling hard, resting, hard,
rest, hard, rest, then someone would be winning races doing it.
The thing about skating (skis or skates) is there's not really any
useful way of applying extra power once you've just started your glide
phase, without throwing the glide straight away. A skier has a much
shorter glide phase than an ice skater because the extra friction takes
away the "free" movement a lot quicker, though it's the same basic
action applied over (often) similar distances.
> couldn't we be better adapted or worse adapted to certain
> types of exertion? Aerobic limits ultimately limiting, of
> course.
Aerobic limits are all part of why we are better at some things than
others, I think. We're generally better at aerobic, constant effort
stuff than short, sharp bursts, or so ISTM.
> One of Canada's speed skating medalists also has a summer
> Olympic medal for cycling, doesn't she?
Certainly the case that some good cyclists are also good skaters. It
helps in both sports if you have thighs that can crack coconuts!
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 09:16:15
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
LOL! I live in NYC -- chutzpah is required!
Werehatrack wrote:
>
>
> Beware of riding it in a litigious area. You'd get sued for causing
> accidents by distracting people from their cell phone conversations.
>
> --
> Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
> Some gardening required to reply via email.
> Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| | |
Date: 15 Mar 2006 19:44:07
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
On 14 2006 09:16:15 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>LOL! I live in NYC -- chutzpah is required!
Well, then, here's an alternative that requires lots of it:
http://www.bikeforest.com/hulabike.php
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 08:05:36
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Right. He's talking about "Gray's Anantomy." The term "lower abs" is
colloquial, but the ab muscles are distinguished really by an
inside/outside division, since they stretch continuously from the ribs
to the pelvis....
Werehatrack wrote:
>
>
> The governments of the UK and Australia, at the very least, as well as
> the American Council on Exercise, say you are wrong. The lower abs
> are the abdominal muscles below the navel, and although they are not a
> separate group from the upper abs, some exercises are known to produce
> greater motion in the lower than upper range. As a result, they are
> treated as a targetable group for exercise regimes.
> --
> Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
> Some gardening required to reply via email.
> Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 08:01:53
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> Why should it? they're in different planes.
Um, okay...next time you lean into a curve, try doing some ab crunches
and see what happens....
> They do? I just, well, *lean*. And since my upper body is free, and my
> lower body is restricted by being sat on the bike and powering it, I
> generally do a fair bit of the leaning upstairs, or so ISTM.
Okay, so it seems to you, fine. Just wondering how on *this* bike, the
Thys row-bike, it all might be different.
> The limiting case here is the unicycle, where I can /assure/ you upper
> body movement plays a significant role!
But the issue isn't upper-body versus lower-body.
> Why? If I lean down onto the bars on a DF as I'm going round a corner,
> or sit more upright, that doesn't require me to consciously modify the
> lean. There may well be more work to do in total, but I doubt it's of
> the thinking variety, rather than just doing.
You're bringing in the "thinking variety" yourself, not me. You seem
to go off on digressions and then imagine it's me that's brought them
up and had the problem!
> But if the imagination is wrong, it isn't really an insight...
Non sequitor. But I'm sick of debating straw-man arguments with you,
with all due respect.
> Furthermore, I haven't ridden a Thys, so I'm using my imagination to
> come up with answers here. Though it appears they tie in with the
> experience of folk that do ride them, since I've yet to hear any
> comments on the lines of "they're very hard to steer!".
Yes...I think I'll just let you debate yourself on this, now. =)
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 20:37:57
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Um, okay...next time you lean into a curve, try doing some ab crunches
> and see what happens....
As I pointed out, if I change my position on a DF as I go around a
bend, it doesn't affect the cornering.
> Okay, so it seems to you, fine. Just wondering how on *this* bike, the
> Thys row-bike, it all might be different.
And I'm saying it probably isn't as different as you might think.
Compare and contrast the questions one gets on a 'bent: how fo you
start? how do you balance? how do you steer? I've had all of those
regularly from experienced cyclists and they dont believe the
answer could be as simple as "just like on any other bike", but it
really /is/ that simple.
> But the issue isn't upper-body versus lower-body.
It's a graphic demonstration of how one doesn't need to nudge hips
anywhere other than where they rest on the seat though.
> You're bringing in the "thinking variety" yourself, not me. You seem
> to go off on digressions and then imagine it's me that's brought them
> up and had the problem!
I say it probably corners pretty much like any other bike,
priily froma gentle lean of the body. I don't see how that's a
big digression.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 09:19:30
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
spam@sucks.com wrote:
>
>
> No such thing as "lower abs." At least in a human body.
I'm speaking colloquially. No need to get all "Gray's" on me! =)
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 17:09:04
From:
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
NYC XYZ <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I think I read in one of the RCN back-issues that certain 'bents
> naturally provide an abdominal workout! Anyone notice?? I can't
> remember which design, though for some reason I'm thinking low-racer.
No such thing as "lower abs." At least in a human body.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 15:46:38
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
On Mon, 13 2006 17:09:04 GMT, spam@sucks.com wrote:
>NYC XYZ <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I think I read in one of the RCN back-issues that certain 'bents
>> naturally provide an abdominal workout! Anyone notice?? I can't
>> remember which design, though for some reason I'm thinking low-racer.
>
>No such thing as "lower abs." At least in a human body.
The governments of the UK and Australia, at the very least, as well as
the American Council on Exercise, say you are wrong. The lower abs
are the abdominal muscles below the navel, and although they are not a
separate group from the upper abs, some exercises are known to produce
greater motion in the lower than upper range. As a result, they are
treated as a targetable group for exercise regimes.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 09:05:57
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> No. the amount of lean needed will be irrespective of the power
> transmission system, it'll be determined by the overall geometry of the
> wheels (size and spacing). And the Thys isn't much different in that
> respect to many SWB 'bents.
How d'ya figure? All that forward and backward motion having no effect
on a lean??
> When you want to turn the bike, again not a function of how you power
> it. If you /don't/ lean a bike (any bike) into a turn at any sort of
> speed you'll probably fall off: it's quite a natural thing, and means
> that in practice you don't need to move the bars that much.
Oh God...are you trying to outdo Ed Dolan in "The Three O's" again?
> No "nudging of thighs" to be done to lean a bike into a turn, or that
> I've ever noticed, so no need to imagine it.
Most folks use lower-body to nudge their bikes on a lean. For example,
when you "ride no-hands" you're essentially using your lower-body. On
a DF, anyway. On a 'bent, I know there isn't much, if any, "body
English" that can be applied, but this Thys machine may be an
exception. Certainly any lateral motion (lean) must take into some
account all that forward and backward motion -- unless one simply
remains still in that regard while leaning, rather like how sometimes
you don't peddle turning into a curve.
> I think your imagination
> is a bit too active for your own good sometimes, as it seems to throw up
> all sorts of problems that aren't there!
I think you're much too empirical-minded. Insights come from the
imagination, not the world out there.
|
| | |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 09:14:44
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> How d'ya figure? All that forward and backward motion having no effect
> on a lean??
Why should it? they're in different planes.
> Most folks use lower-body to nudge their bikes on a lean.
They do? I just, well, *lean*. And since my upper body is free, and my
lower body is restricted by being sat on the bike and powering it, I
generally do a fair bit of the leaning upstairs, or so ISTM.
> when you "ride no-hands" you're essentially using your lower-body.
The limiting case here is the unicycle, where I can /assure/ you upper
body movement plays a significant role!
> exception. Certainly any lateral motion (lean) must take into some
> account all that forward and backward motion
Why? If I lean down onto the bars on a DF as I'm going round a corner,
or sit more upright, that doesn't require me to consciously modify the
lean. There may well be more work to do in total, but I doubt it's of
the thinking variety, rather than just doing.
> I think you're much too empirical-minded. Insights come from the
> imagination, not the world out there.
But if the imagination is wrong, it isn't really an insight...
Furthermore, I haven't ridden a Thys, so I'm using my imagination to
come up with answers here. Though it appears they tie in with the
experience of folk that do ride them, since I've yet to hear any
comments on the lines of "they're very hard to steer!".
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 08:21:42
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
> No personal experience, but since the designer has ridden one around the
> Tour de France route in the wake of the official tour it looks like the
> practicalities aren't too bad. Don't forget that most of a bike's
> turning action comes from leaning it.
Right, but much more so with this machine, and much more often, and
probably rather harder, too...can you imagine nudging your hips or
thighs while rowing this thing, your whole torso stretching back and
forth?
I'd get one for the exercise benefits if it could also be practical
enough for urban terrain.
You know, this HPV stuff really makes me wish I lived in the
Netherlands!
|
| | |
Date: 14 Mar 2006 15:48:16
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
On 13 2006 08:21:42 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Peter Clinch wrote:
>>
>>
>> No personal experience, but since the designer has ridden one around the
>> Tour de France route in the wake of the official tour it looks like the
>> practicalities aren't too bad. Don't forget that most of a bike's
>> turning action comes from leaning it.
>
>
>Right, but much more so with this machine, and much more often, and
>probably rather harder, too...can you imagine nudging your hips or
>thighs while rowing this thing, your whole torso stretching back and
>forth?
>
>I'd get one for the exercise benefits if it could also be practical
>enough for urban terrain.
Beware of riding it in a litigious area. You'd get sued for causing
accidents by distracting people from their cell phone conversations.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 16:32:01
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Don't forget that most of a bike's
>> turning action comes from leaning it.
> Right, but much more so with this machine,
No. the amount of lean needed will be irrespective of the power
transmission system, it'll be determined by the overall geometry of the
wheels (size and spacing). And the Thys isn't much different in that
respect to many SWB 'bents.
> and much more often
When you want to turn the bike, again not a function of how you power
it. If you /don't/ lean a bike (any bike) into a turn at any sort of
speed you'll probably fall off: it's quite a natural thing, and means
that in practice you don't need to move the bars that much.
> probably rather harder, too...can you imagine nudging your hips or
> thighs while rowing this thing, your whole torso stretching back and
> forth?
No "nudging of thighs" to be done to lean a bike into a turn, or that
I've ever noticed, so no need to imagine it. I think your imagination
is a bit too active for your own good sometimes, as it seems to throw up
all sorts of problems that aren't there!
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 07:30:04
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
Yeah, I was wondering about that!
Anyone actually tried one? Looks like great fun, but how does it
handle?? Can't imagine trying to turn on the thing!
Peter Clinch wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
> > I think I read in one of the RCN back-issues that certain 'bents
> > naturally provide an abdominal workout!
>
> The Thys almost certainly provides this.
> http://www.rowingbike.com/main.php?sNewLang=GB
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 15:33:02
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> Anyone actually tried one? Looks like great fun, but how does it
> handle?? Can't imagine trying to turn on the thing!
No personal experience, but since the designer has ridden one around the
Tour de France route in the wake of the official tour it looks like the
practicalities aren't too bad. Don't forget that most of a bike's
turning action comes from leaning it.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| |
Date: 13 Mar 2006 09:02:15
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: 'Bents and Lower Abs???
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> I think I read in one of the RCN back-issues that certain 'bents
> naturally provide an abdominal workout!
The Thys almost certainly provides this.
http://www.rowingbike.com/main.php?sNewLang=GB
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
|
