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Main
Date: 06 Feb 2007 10:51:43
From:
Subject: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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R E C U M B E N T P E D A L N O T E S
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know that toe clips aren't popular these days. On the recumbent,
however, they are a little more problamatic. They are a lot slower to
get in to because one has to come from ``underneath'' the clip; the
traditional method of catching the rear point of the pedal on the sole
of the shoe doesn't work well when you are behind the pedals rather
than above them.
On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be harmful
if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright, position.
When you are using toeclips, the type of shoes you wear is quite
important. My first test rides on my recumbent were in street shoes,
and I couldn't keep my feet in the clips for any length of time. (If I
didn't actively push my feet up when in the clips, they would just
fall right out.)
In my touring shoes, which are designed for toeclips, I don't have
this problem. I've got a pair of old Sidi touring shoes, which have
about 3 mm deep left-right grooves in the sole under the ball of the
foot. On an upright bike these help to catch the hook on the back of
the pedal to help one clip in. (They work very well: on my upright I
can get back into clips faster than most people I know can cleat in. I
sometimes find myself looking down to find out why I'm having so much
trouble getting into the clip to find that my foot went in so smoothly
and quickly that I never noticed it.)
On my recumbent (and presumably on my upright, though I didn't notice
it as much) these grooves act like small cleats, and help to keep my
foot locked into the pedal. I keep my toe straps quite tight. I
thought this would make the clips more difficult to get in to, but it
doesn't, and it takes a good solid tug to get my feet out of the
clips. (But I've got no problem doing it; I do it at every stoplight.)
I can relax my legs completely and my feet will still `hang' in the
toeclips.
I have also tried a pair of old racing shoes (designed for toe clips
and straps) with cleats on them. They really lock your foot in nicely,
but it wasn't as easy to get the foot out (though it could still be
done without any inordinant amount of difficulty). The biggest problem
with these was the very smooth, hard sole, which made walking and even
standing very difficult. I actually fell over on my recumbent at one
point after I had put my foot down on the ground because the shoe just
slid out from under me. The touring shoes never have this problem.
Sad to say, proper shoes designed for clip systems are awfully
difficult to find these days. Modern cycling shoes can be bought with
a little rubber plate in place of the cleat (one would normally remove
this to install the cleat) but I've not seen any shoes recently that
have the grooves my Sidi shoes have.
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Date: 13 Feb 2007 20:39:09
From: Ken Bradley
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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SPD clipless pedals work great on a bent.( better that an upright) I would
not be without them . The last thing you want is for your foot to slip off
while coasting. Ouch
1
<eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1170787903.000394.40500@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> R E C U M B E N T P E D A L N O T E S
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I know that toe clips aren't popular these days. On the recumbent,
> however, they are a little more problamatic. They are a lot slower to
> get in to because one has to come from ``underneath'' the clip; the
> traditional method of catching the rear point of the pedal on the sole
> of the shoe doesn't work well when you are behind the pedals rather
> than above them.
>
> On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
> sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
> twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be harmful
> if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright, position.
> When you are using toeclips, the type of shoes you wear is quite
> important. My first test rides on my recumbent were in street shoes,
> and I couldn't keep my feet in the clips for any length of time. (If I
> didn't actively push my feet up when in the clips, they would just
> fall right out.)
>
> In my touring shoes, which are designed for toeclips, I don't have
> this problem. I've got a pair of old Sidi touring shoes, which have
> about 3 mm deep left-right grooves in the sole under the ball of the
> foot. On an upright bike these help to catch the hook on the back of
> the pedal to help one clip in. (They work very well: on my upright I
> can get back into clips faster than most people I know can cleat in. I
> sometimes find myself looking down to find out why I'm having so much
> trouble getting into the clip to find that my foot went in so smoothly
> and quickly that I never noticed it.)
>
> On my recumbent (and presumably on my upright, though I didn't notice
> it as much) these grooves act like small cleats, and help to keep my
> foot locked into the pedal. I keep my toe straps quite tight. I
> thought this would make the clips more difficult to get in to, but it
> doesn't, and it takes a good solid tug to get my feet out of the
> clips. (But I've got no problem doing it; I do it at every stoplight.)
> I can relax my legs completely and my feet will still `hang' in the
> toeclips.
>
> I have also tried a pair of old racing shoes (designed for toe clips
> and straps) with cleats on them. They really lock your foot in nicely,
> but it wasn't as easy to get the foot out (though it could still be
> done without any inordinant amount of difficulty). The biggest problem
> with these was the very smooth, hard sole, which made walking and even
> standing very difficult. I actually fell over on my recumbent at one
> point after I had put my foot down on the ground because the shoe just
> slid out from under me. The touring shoes never have this problem.
>
> Sad to say, proper shoes designed for clip systems are awfully
> difficult to find these days. Modern cycling shoes can be bought with
> a little rubber plate in place of the cleat (one would normally remove
> this to install the cleat) but I've not seen any shoes recently that
> have the grooves my Sidi shoes have.
>
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Date: 07 Feb 2007 04:12:13
From: What Me Worry?
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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<eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1170787903.000394.40500@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> R E C U M B E N T P E D A L N O T E S
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I know that toe clips aren't popular these days. On the recumbent,
> however, they are a little more problamatic. They are a lot slower to
> get in to because one has to come from ``underneath'' the clip; the
> traditional method of catching the rear point of the pedal on the sole
> of the shoe doesn't work well when you are behind the pedals rather
> than above them.
I don't recommend clips-and-straps for recumbent use .
> On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
> sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
> twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be harmful
> if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright, position.
It's possible. I've experienced pretty nasty pain in my knees from jerking
my foot out of SPD's that were set too tight. (I'm not a fan of SPD's, and
ride them as infrequently as possible.)
> When you are using toeclips, the type of shoes you wear is quite
> important. My first test rides on my recumbent were in street shoes,
> and I couldn't keep my feet in the clips for any length of time. (If I
> didn't actively push my feet up when in the clips, they would just
> fall right out.)
Yep. That's why PowerGrips are (or were) popular for commuters (around here
anyway).
<snippage >
> I can relax my legs completely and my feet will still `hang' in the
> toeclips.
THAT is what you want. To avoid dropping a foot while riding, you want to
be able to hang your feet freely from the pedals. This is especially
important when riding extremely laid-back bikes like low racers, where
dropping a foot by accident can severely wrench your knee.
Some recumbent riders here on ARBR prefer the "lollipop" style pedals made
by Speedplay and BeBop, because they are foolproof to get in and out of, and
easy on the knees. Here's an archived thread comparing these pedals:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent/browse_thread/thread/5cc83084ab440cf4/afedc71195680aa5?lnk=st&q=bebop+recumbent&rnum=1&hl=en#afedc71195680aa5
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Date: 07 Feb 2007 16:59:57
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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What Me Worry? wrote:
> It's possible. I've experienced pretty nasty pain in my knees from jerking
> my foot out of SPD's that were set too tight. (I'm not a fan of SPD's, and
> ride them as infrequently as possible.)
Have you tried Time ATACs/Aliums? No fiddling about with tension
like SPuDs, the mechanisms handle all that for you and they're
always (IME) pretty easy in and out but won't let go unless you
want them to, even with badly worn cleats. I've got pretty dodgy
knees but never any trouble from my ATACs.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 07 Feb 2007 17:19:04
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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On 2007-02-07 16:59:57 +0000, Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > said:
> What Me Worry? wrote:
>
>> It's possible. I've experienced pretty nasty pain in my knees from
>> jerking my foot out of SPD's that were set too tight. (I'm not a fan
>> of SPD's, and ride them as infrequently as possible.)
>
> Have you tried Time ATACs/Aliums? No fiddling about with tension like
> SPuDs, the mechanisms handle all that for you and they're always (IME)
> pretty easy in and out but won't let go unless you want them to, even
> with badly worn cleats. I've got pretty dodgy knees but never any
> trouble from my ATACs.
>
> Pete.
I have no anteria or posteria cruciate ligaments in my left knee and a
re-profiled, re constructed tibial plateau and I use ATACs to great
effect, I cannot walk to well but I can cycle for hundreds of km.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 16:36:18
From:
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Joel wrote:
> >
> > I think it's just a random comment by a chiropractor and nothing more. He's
> > just thinking out loud & on the fly. He's likely wrong. Big whoop! :)
> >
> If there were a problem with the clipless system there would have been
> many law suites by now, especially how law suit crazy the USA is.
I agree with the big whoop (!), I can assume a twisted ankle might
have been the cause for concern.
But moving up to bungie cords rather than straps is a cheap and easy
way to go. Doing that on my own without professional comments may
make me a 'rebel with 2 clods'!
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Date: 07 Feb 2007 01:56:58
From: Zebee Johnstone
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 6 Feb 2007 16:36:18 -0800
eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com <eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Joel wrote:
>> >
>> > I think it's just a random comment by a chiropractor and nothing more. He's
>> > just thinking out loud & on the fly. He's likely wrong. Big whoop! :)
>> >
>> If there were a problem with the clipless system there would have been
>> many law suites by now, especially how law suit crazy the USA is.
>
> I agree with the big whoop (!), I can assume a twisted ankle might
> have been the cause for concern.
Only if you don't unclip in time.....
Only incidents I have had riding clipless have involved gravel rash,
and the pedals weren't the problem - kerbs were. That and a metal plate
in the wet.
hazard of high BB recumbents - chainwheel punctures on your shin!
Zebee
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 15:09:54
From: Robert Stevahn
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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On 6 Feb 2007 10:51:43 -0800, eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> R E C U M B E N T P E D A L N O T E S
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry, but this post is complete nonsense. My Speedplay X-type
cleats and pedals work perfectly well on my SWB (or any other, I'd
wager) bicycle. Many other people use many other systems with no
problem at all.
-- Robert
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Date: 07 Feb 2007 17:35:41
From: nget
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Robert Stevahn Wrote:
> On 6 Feb 2007 10:51:43 -0800, eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > R E C U M B E N T P E D A L N O T E S
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm sorry, but this post is complete nonsense. My Speedplay X-type
> cleats and pedals work perfectly well on my SWB (or any other, I'd
> wager) bicycle. Many other people use many other systems with no
> problem at all.
>
> -- Robert
You don't have to say you're sorry for calling a spade a spade. Th
entire forum here seems to be about nothing but complete nonsense. Pur
pabulum for weak and insecure
--
nget
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 20:37:57
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
> sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
> twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be harmful
> if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright, position.
I'd be interested to know why it malkes any difference at all. The
body parts are more or less at similar angles to one another, just
rotated back the way.
Furthermore, I've been using Time ATACs on both uprights and 'bents
for years now and don't notice any difference in use between one
and the other. And since clipless are rekanly common on 'bents,
you'd have thought that a lot of problems would be showing up by
now if this was true, but it's the first I've heard of it.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 16:26:27
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Peter Clinch wrote:
:: eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
::
::: On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
::: sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
::: twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be
::: harmful if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright,
::: position.
::
:: I'd be interested to know why it malkes any difference at all. The
:: body parts are more or less at similar angles to one another, just
:: rotated back the way.
I think it's just a random comment by a chiropractor and nothing more. He's
just thinking out loud & on the fly. He's likely wrong. Big whoop! :)
::
:: Furthermore, I've been using Time ATACs on both uprights and 'bents
:: for years now and don't notice any difference in use between one
:: and the other. And since clipless are rekanly common on 'bents,
:: you'd have thought that a lot of problems would be showing up by
:: now if this was true, but it's the first I've heard of it.
::
:: Pete.
:: --
:: Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
:: Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
:: Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
:: net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 16:50:16
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Roger Zoul wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
> :: eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> ::
> ::: On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
> ::: sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
> ::: twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be
> ::: harmful if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright,
> ::: position.
> ::
> :: I'd be interested to know why it malkes any difference at all. The
> :: body parts are more or less at similar angles to one another, just
> :: rotated back the way.
>
> I think it's just a random comment by a chiropractor and nothing more. He's
> just thinking out loud & on the fly. He's likely wrong. Big whoop! :)
>
> ::
> :: Furthermore, I've been using Time ATACs on both uprights and 'bents
> :: for years now and don't notice any difference in use between one
> :: and the other. And since clipless are rekanly common on 'bents,
> :: you'd have thought that a lot of problems would be showing up by
> :: now if this was true, but it's the first I've heard of it.
> ::
> :: Pete.
> :: --
> :: Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> :: Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> :: Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> :: net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
>
>
If there were a problem with the clipless system there would have been
many law suites by now, especially how law suit crazy the USA is. And as
far as your chiropractor making a rek like that still is a no, no as
far as I am concerned. People expect proper and factual reks from a
medical practitioner. My uncle was a chiropractor for many years and I
felt he was good at what he did, but I also feel that many practice a
little under the guidelines. I had such a chiropractor and he caused me
nothing but pain, if I knew then what I know now I would be in a lot
better shape.
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 21:36:48
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Joel wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Peter Clinch wrote:
::::: eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
:::::
:::::: On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great
:::::: interest in sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that
:::::: he felt the twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals
:::::: would be harmful if used from a recumbent, rather than the
:::::: normal upright, position.
:::::
::::: I'd be interested to know why it malkes any difference at all.
::::: The body parts are more or less at similar angles to one another,
::::: just rotated back the way.
:::
::: I think it's just a random comment by a chiropractor and nothing
::: more. He's just thinking out loud & on the fly. He's likely wrong.
::: Big whoop! :)
:::
:::::
::::: Furthermore, I've been using Time ATACs on both uprights and
::::: 'bents for years now and don't notice any difference in use
::::: between one and the other. And since clipless are rekanly
::::: common on 'bents, you'd have thought that a lot of problems would
::::: be showing up by now if this was true, but it's the first I've
::::: heard of it.
:::::
::::: Pete.
::::: --
::::: Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
::::: Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells
::::: Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland
::::: UK
::::: net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
:::
:::
:: If there were a problem with the clipless system there would have
:: been many law suites by now, especially how law suit crazy the USA
:: is. And as far as your chiropractor making a rek like that still
:: is a no, no as far as I am concerned. People expect proper and
:: factual reks from a medical practitioner.
On all topics? What does a chiropractor know about bicycles and pedals? Do
they get trained on this?
People have no right to have these expectations.
My uncle was a
:: chiropractor for many years and I felt he was good at what he did,
:: but I also feel that many practice a little under the guidelines. I
:: had such a chiropractor and he caused me nothing but pain, if I knew
:: then what I know now I would be in a lot better shape.
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 19:31:12
From: Zebee Johnstone
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 6 Feb 2007 10:51:43 -0800
eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com <eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
> On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
> sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
> twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be harmful
> if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright, position.
Can't see it myself.
Unless, of course, you have to twist the foot umpteen degrees and yank
like hell.
I have mine set very loosely so I don't have to exert much pressure to
get out of. Even on my commute I don't have to unclip often anyway.
I'd want an explanation of just what damage he thinks is likely and
why, and after how long.
Some people use the kind of platform pedal that has knobs that stick
into the tread of your shoe. They say the foot sticks there quite
nicely.
I tend to use the serrated side of my pedal for a bit when I have
hotfoot, but I don't find it as secure as the clips so only use it
when I don't have to do tight turns or stop/start.
Zebee
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 14:40:45
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on 6 Feb 2007 10:51:43 -0800
> eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com <eco_milage_buster_2005@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On the other hand, my chiropractor, who also has a great interest in
>> sports medicine, examined my recumbent and said that he felt the
>> twisting motion needed to get out of clipless pedals would be harmful
>> if used from a recumbent, rather than the normal upright, position.
>
> Can't see it myself.
>
> Unless, of course, you have to twist the foot umpteen degrees and yank
> like hell.
>
> I have mine set very loosely so I don't have to exert much pressure to
> get out of. Even on my commute I don't have to unclip often anyway.
>
> I'd want an explanation of just what damage he thinks is likely and
> why, and after how long.
>
> Some people use the kind of platform pedal that has knobs that stick
> into the tread of your shoe. They say the foot sticks there quite
> nicely.
>
> I tend to use the serrated side of my pedal for a bit when I have
> hotfoot, but I don't find it as secure as the clips so only use it
> when I don't have to do tight turns or stop/start.
>
> Zebee
I can't believe that your chiropractor would make such a crazy rek.
The only way that a clipless system is bad on you is when your pedals
don't have a lot of float. That is why there are pedals like the Frogs.
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 21:08:40
From: Zebee Johnstone
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:40:45 -0500
Joel <joelw135atcomcast.net > wrote:
> I can't believe that your chiropractor would make such a crazy rek.
Well... how likely you think it is they will make a crazy rek
devoid of medical sense depends on your view of chiropractors I guess....
Zebee
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Date: 06 Feb 2007 16:28:05
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Clip or not to clip - that was the question
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Zebee Johnstone wrote:
:: In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:40:45 -0500
:: Joel <joelw135atcomcast.net > wrote:
::: I can't believe that your chiropractor would make such a crazy
::: rek.
::
:: Well... how likely you think it is they will make a crazy rek
:: devoid of medical sense depends on your view of chiropractors I
:: guess....
::
It's not like he stood up at a medical conference and made a pronoucement.
He was just thinking out loud and is very likely wrong.
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