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Main
Date: 23 Jan 2007 13:54:31
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Commuting Alternative?
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I'm curious if anyone has come across a suitable bent for a reasonably
long commute that doesn't cost a fortune? I live just under 40 miles
from my work, and sometimes ride my singlespeed upright home. I've
lately been considering a fully geared road bike for this ride, leaving
my SS for a local bad-weather commuter. That was until I started
researching HPV's, where I saw some things that interest me. I've read
of people who are not overly athletic covering 40 miles in an hour or
just over on some of these sleek HPV's. I average about 15mph on my
way home with my SS, and don't see gears bringing me to or past 20.
Can I get a 30-40mph aerodynamic 'bent that will be reliable for daily
riding without spending 10K? I'd like to pedal my commute when I can,
but am not willing to sell my car to make it happen. The Hammacher
Schlemmer seems to be the cream of the crop. is there a heavier,
slower version for a fraction of the $14K price tag? Any other cheaper
bents you'd suggest I check out?
TIA,
Dan
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 13:03:40
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Jan 26, 9:52 am, Curtis L. Russell <cur...@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
> Interestingly, if I could do 40 mph in the fully faired recumbent, it
> would not have cut my time in half. It doesn't work that way. Maybe it
> would take 10-15 minutes off of the commute on a good day, if you
> assume that I could roll the sucker into the office building at the
> end. And I had a large office in a three story building with a freight
> elevator (the building, not my office). Wouldn't work at all where I
> work now. So unless you have a roll out point at home, a roll in place
> at work, job security enough to know that all that won't change, and a
> commute long enough and smooth enough to make it all work to the
> maximum, I think I would put my $ 3,000 into something else. Maybe a
> Catrike 700...
Interestingly enough, I've got most of those things down. Roll in/out
@ home is covered. The building I work in would make it easy enough to
get a small car into my office (garage doors & freight/shipping
elevator included). I've got an extra "cube" where I just store extra
drawings, etc. Plenty of room for it. Still, I would just lock it to
the railing just outside my office 10 feet from my desk most days. The
commute is 37.92 miles long. Mostly back roads as well. Seems like my
only concerns would be if it's too hilly, and if it's too hot in there
to deal with the power output I'd need. Unfortunately, those are
pretty heavy concerns.
If only I could rent one for a day or seven...
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 13:25:32
From: chalo colina
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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DanK...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I can
> envision myself spending a few thousand dollars & discovering that
> it's actually significantly harder to ride to work than my regular
> bicycle, perhaps due to the weight on the hills.
This is almost certainly the case. What others are leaving out here is
that you simply can't work very hard to propel a velomobile; you'll
melt down from the lack of cooling air. The more air you divert to
cool yourself, the more aerodynamics suffer. It's a no-win situation.
Where velomobiles work is in absolutely flat places, for riders who
were only going to be putting out 100W or so anyway. Low rider power
makes the heating problem tolerable, and flat terrain makes low rider
power feasible.
I knew of one Leitra in Seattle (a hilly city). The guy who rode it
obviously liked it, but it spent /a lot/ of time in the shop getting
repaired or retrofitted. He also rode it quite a bit without its front
fairing, making it a heavy trike without any potential performance
benefits over an unfaired machine.
> I've considered power-assisted vehicles, but don't think that's
> the solution for me. A battery system would be too heavy when under my
> own power to justify it's assistance, and would not have the juice
> for my commute.
The weight of electric assist is not a big issue in very flat terrain,
and if you don't have very flat terrain then a velomobile doesn't make
sense anyway.
> A gas system would be add a few issues:
> a) Smell. Parked inside & when running.
Yes. That's what keeps me from even trying one.
> b) Legality. Suddenly it's a "motorized vehicle" and subject to
> many laws & regs.
This varies a lot by location. In some places the "motorized bicycle"
category would cover you and the only catch would be that you couldn't
use bike paths. In other places you'd have to register and insure the
thing like a moped or scooter.
> c) Personal satisfaction. At that point, why not take the car or
> motorcycle?
200mpg is a nice benefit. The opportunity to work some exercise into
your commute is a good thing too.
Chalo
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 10:18:23
From: stratrider
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk >
wrote:
> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>
Buck, now I am really feeling bad! That is rekable! And on a trike
no less? Do you think you could ride flat out for 30 miles (not
kilometers right?) in one hour on your tirke?
Jim
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 10:43:36
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On 2007-01-25 18:18:23 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net > said:
> On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
> wrote:
>> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
>> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>>
>
> Buck, now I am really feeling bad! That is rekable! And on a trike
> no less? Do you think you could ride flat out for 30 miles (not
> kilometers right?) in one hour on your tirke?
>
> Jim
Not much faster to be honest but I could break the hour I imagine, it
is down to
maintaining a steady cadence, once you get past the initial muscle burn
it is ok,
It has taken me a long time to train my cadence to this point and has
really only
kicked in this winter, although really long hills mess it up a bit,
after three hours
riding my knees are physicaly very hot for about an hour, I have discussed this
with the doctor but she says it is fine.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 27 Jan 2007 17:29:49
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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"Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk > wrote in message
news:2007012610445316807-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
> On 2007-01-25 18:18:23 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net> said:
>
>> On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
>> wrote:
>>> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
>>> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>>>
>>
>> Buck, now I am really feeling bad! That is rekable! And on a trike
>> no less? Do you think you could ride flat out for 30 miles (not
>> kilometers right?) in one hour on your tirke?
>>
>> Jim
>
> Not much faster to be honest but I could break the hour I imagine, it is
> down to
> maintaining a steady cadence, once you get past the initial muscle burn it
> is ok,
> It has taken me a long time to train my cadence to this point and has
> really only
> kicked in this winter, although really long hills mess it up a bit, after
> three hours
> riding my knees are physicaly very hot for about an hour, I have discussed
> this
> with the doctor but she says it is fine.
> --
> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>
> www.catrike.co.uk
>
This link will take you to the photos and results of a 100 mile measured
challenge in rural Illinois. The only streamliner configured for HPRA
Superstreet (without the canopy) did the course in a bit over 3h36min. Two
tailfaired lowracers (Jester and RazzFazz) did it in under four hours.
Three of the riders are probably in the top ten US recumbent racer
community. It's not the kind of thing mere mortal riders can do.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 27 Jan 2007 20:21:26
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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"gotbent" <gotbent@dontsendmail.com > wrote in message
news:45bbd3d1$0$1835$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>
> "Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk> wrote in message
> news:2007012610445316807-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
>> On 2007-01-25 18:18:23 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net> said:
>>
>>> On Jan 25, 12:58 pm, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
>>>> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Buck, now I am really feeling bad! That is rekable! And on a trike
>>> no less? Do you think you could ride flat out for 30 miles (not
>>> kilometers right?) in one hour on your tirke?
>>>
>>> Jim
>>
>> Not much faster to be honest but I could break the hour I imagine, it is
>> down to
>> maintaining a steady cadence, once you get past the initial muscle burn
>> it is ok,
>> It has taken me a long time to train my cadence to this point and has
>> really only
>> kicked in this winter, although really long hills mess it up a bit, after
>> three hours
>> riding my knees are physicaly very hot for about an hour, I have
>> discussed this
>> with the doctor but she says it is fine.
>> --
>> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>>
>> www.catrike.co.uk
>>
>
> This link will take you to the photos and results of a 100 mile measured
> challenge in rural Illinois. The only streamliner configured for HPRA
> Superstreet (without the canopy) did the course in a bit over 3h36min. Two
> tailfaired lowracers (Jester and RazzFazz) did it in under four hours.
> Three of the riders are probably in the top ten US recumbent racer
> community. It's not the kind of thing mere mortal riders can do.
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
Let's try the link again.
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/racing2003/sub4/Sub4-2003.htm
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 09:47:19
From: stratrider
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Jan 25, 2:33 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk >
wrote:
> I do not think 30mph average is an unreasonable figure for a fully faired
> velomobile ridden by a reasonably fit pilot.
Not too many years ago I jumped into a pace line during a century ride
on my 1999 Stratus. We covered 24 miles in the first hour of this FLAT
ride. We were flying! I was a strong rider with no baggage on a
course with no hills or significant wind plus I had the draft advantage
of the pace line. I cannot imagine how much additional power it would
have taken to add 6 miles to that first hour of riding without adding
real world conditions.
Jim
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 17:58:17
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On 2007-01-25 17:47:19 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net > said:
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2:33 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
> wrote:
>> I do not think 30mph average is an unreasonable figure for a fully faired
>> velomobile ridden by a reasonably fit pilot.
>
> Not too many years ago I jumped into a pace line during a century ride
> on my 1999 Stratus. We covered 24 miles in the first hour of this FLAT
> ride. We were flying! I was a strong rider with no baggage on a
> course with no hills or significant wind plus I had the draft advantage
> of the pace line. I cannot imagine how much additional power it would
> have taken to add 6 miles to that first hour of riding without adding
> real world conditions.
>
> Jim
I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
I'm goosed after three hours but I am working on it. On a velomobile
with much less wind resitance I expect 30mph over a similar time would
not be an issue.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 19:29:47
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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"Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk > wrote in message
news:2007012517590116807-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
> On 2007-01-25 17:47:19 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net> said:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2:33 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
>> wrote:
>>> I do not think 30mph average is an unreasonable figure for a fully
>>> faired
>>> velomobile ridden by a reasonably fit pilot.
>>
>> Not too many years ago I jumped into a pace line during a century ride
>> on my 1999 Stratus. We covered 24 miles in the first hour of this FLAT
>> ride. We were flying! I was a strong rider with no baggage on a
>> course with no hills or significant wind plus I had the draft advantage
>> of the pace line. I cannot imagine how much additional power it would
>> have taken to add 6 miles to that first hour of riding without adding
>> real world conditions.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>
> I'm goosed after three hours but I am working on it. On a velomobile with
> much less wind resitance I expect 30mph over a similar time would not be
> an issue.
> --
> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>
> www.catrike.co.uk
I'm calling bullshit. I ride a Catrike Road with the small fairing. Granted
I have Big Apples, racks and mudguards but my averages are in the 22 - 25km
range over a 40 km ride. Granted also that this is somewhat hilly and I'm
46. But I ride 7000km plus per year and I am in very good shape. I can't
imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over three hours, that's about 37kph.
Unless of course it's all downhill and/or with a good wind pushing. Hey,
there's always BionX units... that would work to get the avg up there.
Grolsch
>
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 10:58:08
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Grolch wrote:
> I can't
> imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over three hours, that's about 37kph.
> Unless of course it's all downhill and/or with a good wind pushing.
Try a bigger imagination... Andy Wilkinson, taking the UK end to end
record, averaged slightly better than 20 mph for /over 40 hours/.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 09:52:35
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:58:08 +0000, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:
>Grolch wrote:
>
>> I can't
>> imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over three hours, that's about 37kph.
>> Unless of course it's all downhill and/or with a good wind pushing.
>
>Try a bigger imagination... Andy Wilkinson, taking the UK end to end
>record, averaged slightly better than 20 mph for /over 40 hours/.
>
>Pete.
Comparing apples to oranges to bananas. First of all, going from 20 to
23 mph is a siginificant increase, and doing 20 mph all day by a
person setting a record is different from an average fit cyclist
riding any significant distance. Both are way different than how most
people ride while doing a daily commute. You may as well say that
racers can train at over 25 mph for several hours. None of it is
relevant to most commuters.
Based on the 12 or so years that I commuted, I can't see a fully
faired recumbent being the answer for a commuter, except for short
city commutes where the person has access to a locked ground level
space. I've rolled diamond frames down a couple of flights of stairs
and wouldn't do that daily at 6:00 am with my unfaired Vision SWB. I
had a 20 mile commute for a while and that meant that in spring and
autumn, the ride would or cdould change dramatically from the start to
the finish (crossing from or into darkness). Same thing: I would
prefer a diamond frame or possibly an open recumbent and a jacket to
pull on than a fully faired recumbent.There were rough roads in some
areas, overcast days when I wanted maximum field of view etc.
Interestingly, if I could do 40 mph in the fully faired recumbent, it
would not have cut my time in half. It doesn't work that way. Maybe it
would take 10-15 minutes off of the commute on a good day, if you
assume that I could roll the sucker into the office building at the
end. And I had a large office in a three story building with a freight
elevator (the building, not my office). Wouldn't work at all where I
work now. So unless you have a roll out point at home, a roll in place
at work, job security enough to know that all that won't change, and a
commute long enough and smooth enough to make it all work to the
maximum, I think I would put my $ 3,000 into something else. Maybe a
Catrike 700...
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 22:32:43
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> Comparing apples to oranges to bananas. First of all, going from 20 to
> 23 mph is a siginificant increase, and doing 20 mph all day by a
> person setting a record is different from an average fit cyclist
> riding any significant distance.
Quite true, but the point was that saying a "merely" hard feat is
/beyond imagination/ doesn't give very much scope for credit for
the range of things people can do..
> Based on the 12 or so years that I commuted, I can't see a fully
> faired recumbent being the answer for a commuter, except for short
> city commutes where the person has access to a locked ground level
> space.
Why limit it to city? I'd have thought an open road, where one
could maintain the possible speeds without traffic and signals
bringing you down all the time, would be much better suited. Also
more likely to have parking for it.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 11:02:41
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On 2007-01-26 10:58:08 +0000, Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > said:
> Grolch wrote:
>
>> I can't imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over three hours, that's
>> about 37kph.
>> Unless of course it's all downhill and/or with a good wind pushing.
>
> Try a bigger imagination... Andy Wilkinson, taking the UK end to end
> record, averaged slightly better than 20 mph for /over 40 hours/.
>
> Pete.
And not fully faired either. But pretty slick.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 10:50:52
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
|
On 2007-01-25 19:29:47 +0000, "Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenospam@telus.net > said:
>
>
>
> "Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk> wrote in message
> news:2007012517590116807-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
>> On 2007-01-25 17:47:19 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net> said:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2:33 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I do not think 30mph average is an unreasonable figure for a fully faired
>>>> velomobile ridden by a reasonably fit pilot.
>>>
>>> Not too many years ago I jumped into a pace line during a century ride
>>> on my 1999 Stratus. We covered 24 miles in the first hour of this FLAT
>>> ride. We were flying! I was a strong rider with no baggage on a
>>> course with no hills or significant wind plus I had the draft advantage
>>> of the pace line. I cannot imagine how much additional power it would
>>> have taken to add 6 miles to that first hour of riding without adding
>>> real world conditions.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>
>> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
>> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>>
>> I'm goosed after three hours but I am working on it. On a velomobile
>> with much less wind resitance I expect 30mph over a similar time would
>> not be an issue.
>> --
>> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>>
>> www.catrike.co.uk
>
>
> I'm calling bullshit. I ride a Catrike Road with the small fairing.
> Granted I have Big Apples, racks and mudguards but my averages are in
> the 22 - 25km range over a 40 km ride. Granted also that this is
> somewhat hilly and I'm 46. But I ride 7000km plus per year and I am in
> very good shape. I can't imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over
> three hours, that's about 37kph. Unless of course it's all downhill
> and/or with a good wind pushing. Hey, there's always BionX units...
> that would work to get the avg up there.
>
> Grolsch
I have a customer with a Speed that can cover his 19 mile commute in 30
minutes, I ride about 25000 to 30000 km per year, I go to the gym three
times a week and consider myself moderately fit, perceptions?
Of course if you cannot do it perhaps no one can.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 26 Jan 2007 16:32:28
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
|
"Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk > wrote in message
news:2007012610513675249-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
> On 2007-01-25 19:29:47 +0000, "Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenospam@telus.net>
> said:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk> wrote in message
>> news:2007012517590116807-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
>>> On 2007-01-25 17:47:19 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net> said:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 25, 2:33 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I do not think 30mph average is an unreasonable figure for a fully
>>>>> faired
>>>>> velomobile ridden by a reasonably fit pilot.
>>>>
>>>> Not too many years ago I jumped into a pace line during a century ride
>>>> on my 1999 Stratus. We covered 24 miles in the first hour of this FLAT
>>>> ride. We were flying! I was a strong rider with no baggage on a
>>>> course with no hills or significant wind plus I had the draft advantage
>>>> of the pace line. I cannot imagine how much additional power it would
>>>> have taken to add 6 miles to that first hour of riding without adding
>>>> real world conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>
>>> I can maintain 23.4 mph average for three hours on a Catrike Expedition
>>> unfaired while riding alone and I am 40 years old.
>>>
>>> I'm goosed after three hours but I am working on it. On a velomobile
>>> with much less wind resitance I expect 30mph over a similar time would
>>> not be an issue.
>>> --
>>> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>>>
>>> www.catrike.co.uk
>>
>>
>> I'm calling bullshit. I ride a Catrike Road with the small fairing.
>> Granted I have Big Apples, racks and mudguards but my averages are in the
>> 22 - 25km range over a 40 km ride. Granted also that this is somewhat
>> hilly and I'm 46. But I ride 7000km plus per year and I am in very good
>> shape. I can't imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over three hours,
>> that's about 37kph. Unless of course it's all downhill and/or with a good
>> wind pushing. Hey, there's always BionX units... that would work to get
>> the avg up there.
>>
>> Grolsch
>
> I have a customer with a Speed that can cover his 19 mile commute in 30
> minutes, I ride about 25000 to 30000 km per year, I go to the gym three
> times a week and consider myself moderately fit, perceptions?
>
> Of course if you cannot do it perhaps no one can.
Saaaay, you're not from Texas are you? You expect me to believe that you
ride an average of over 80km a day, every day of the year AND go to the gym
three times a week AND have time to bullshit on cycling groups. Buck, quick
call Dr. Phil this is a story the nation wants to hear. Of course, if we
gave you a laxative we could bury you in a shoe box.
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 15:34:00
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
|
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:29:47 GMT, "Grolch"
<hjwilkeremovenospam@telus.net > wrote:
>I'm calling bullshit. I ride a Catrike Road with the small fairing. Granted
>I have Big Apples, racks and mudguards but my averages are in the 22 - 25km
>range over a 40 km ride. Granted also that this is somewhat hilly and I'm
>46. But I ride 7000km plus per year and I am in very good shape. I can't
>imagine anyone pushing over 23mph for over three hours, that's about 37kph.
>Unless of course it's all downhill and/or with a good wind pushing. Hey,
>there's always BionX units... that would work to get the avg up there.
There was an older guy on a low-rider recumbent that rode just behind
the serious pace lines at the Seagull for the two years that I rode
sag for a bike race team and he wasn't much off their on-road pace of
25 and change (for the record, they were training more than pushing
it). Seagull though had only two places that you slow down briefly
(the first and third stops back then) and the rest is flat, so with
the wind advantage of the low rider, it was pretty much perfect for
the bike.
The fastest I've seen an unfaired recumbent on a timed course was well
below the hour k for 40 kilos, but he wasn't staying with the
fastest of the USCF guys, the specialists - he probably set fourth or
fifth on the road behind some good TT guys. The on-the-road was an
important part because he fell both times briefly at the turn arounds
- his front wheel chattered on the rough stuff, it was pumped so high.
He looked like he could have done well under four hours over the 100
mile k and maybe 52 minutes and change if he had stayed upright for
the 40 kilos.
Of course, none of the above were faired or trikes.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 06:11:36
From: stratrider
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Jan 24, 9:29 am, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com > wrote:
> It seems I set my expectations too high with my 30-40mph statement. I
> would be OK with an average speed (including starts, stops & hills) of
> 20-25mph over my 37.92 mile ride home. My average last ride home was
> 15.58mph, giving me a 2:25hr ride on my steel singlespeed upright
> bicycle. I'd need a 19mph average to get me under 2 hours.
I think 20-25mph is an aggresive but reasonable goal. Check out:
http://www.recumbents.com/s/pages/proj/tetz/OFS/projtetzOFS.html
I first saw several of these at the Seagull Century in yland, USA
back in 1999-2000. One gentlemen (perhaps the guy pictured in the
link) was said to average over 25 mph for the entire 100 miles in in
his homebuilt slipstream lowracer. I think he was about 65 years old
at the time!
Jim Reilly
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 16:24:00
From: JimM
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Based on my albeit limited experience, unless you commute in an
especially hilly area, you should average a higher speed on a
recumbent, all things being equal (fitness, quality of bike, etc). I
was able to sustain average speeds of well over 25 mph on an Easy Racer
Gold Rush along the Erie Canal trail. In average physical shape at the
time. I could have hit upwards of 30 mph w/ additional effort.
YMMV
On Jan 24, 8:14 am, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:
> DanK...@gmail.com wrote:
> > First, why would the Leitra be slower than the Quest or
> > Mango?Not as aerodynamic.
>
> > Secondly, would someone really be any faster on the Mango than
> > on a high-end upright? Yes, because of the aerodynamics.
>
> > It looks extremely cool if rather heavy.Quite so, but as high speeds weight is less important than air
> resistance. With "normal" race bikes the UCI specifically ban
> aerodynamic aids, but using fairings the IHPVA speed records are about
> 30% better than the UCI "official" ones.
>
> > I can
> > envision myself spending a few thousand dollars & discovering that
> > it's actually significantly harder to ride to work than my regular
> > bicycle, perhaps due to the weight on the hills.Once your speed drops under a critical value then weight will matter
> more than the aerodynamics, but it's worth noting that the real-roads UK
> "End to End" ride (over 800 miles with /lots/ of hills) has the record
> held by a faired trike, with the rider taking his own upright racer
> based record.
> Also, what goes up, must come down, and then your aerodynamics wins out
> again.
>
> > The F40 looks like an interesting solution as well. I have the same
> > reservations I have about the Mango, however. Also, the F40 is a
> > 'bent with a fairing added. I wonder if a purpose-built velomobile
> > would be more efficient?What /may/ be the case is it's a lot more stable in side winds. Talk to
> people with real experience of them for that though.
>
> > It seems I set my expectations too high with my 30-40mph statement. I
> > would be OK with an average speed (including starts, stops & hills) of
> > 20-25mph over my 37.92 mile ride home. My average last ride home was
> > 15.58mph, giving me a 2:25hr ride on my steel singlespeed upright
> > bicycle. I'd need a 19mph average to get me under 2 hours. I
> > don't know if a lightweight geared road bike or a velomobile would
> > accomplish this or not. I also expect I'll be a little faster month
> > to month, at least until I get into peak shape.If the roads aren't particularly exceptionally poorly suited, a fully
> faired machine should give you a more reliable overall figure (i.e.,
> with less difference between still and headwind days). My guess is the
> average should be better as long as you're keeping effort high, because
> aerodynamics takes up the lion's share of the effort any time you're
> above about 15 mph.
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 09:36:15
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On 24 Jan 2007 16:24:00 -0800, "JimM" <jimmilt@netzero.net > wrote:
>Based on my albeit limited experience, unless you commute in an
>especially hilly area, you should average a higher speed on a
>recumbent, all things being equal (fitness, quality of bike, etc). I
>was able to sustain average speeds of well over 25 mph on an Easy Racer
>Gold Rush along the Erie Canal trail. In average physical shape at the
>time. I could have hit upwards of 30 mph w/ additional effort.
>YMMV
I knew a person (via an older email group) that commuted on a fully
faired recumbent and his biggest problem was not hills, but the
combination of too many trucks 40 mph or better combined with too much
side wind. Controlling his recumbent brought his effective speed way
down.
And riding along the Erie Canal is not the same as commuting in
traffic. In the small town where I live, there are two intersections
with double left turn lanes that are more difficult to maneuver in
rush hour traffic on a regular, non-faired recumbent compared to my
diamond frame (in both cases you have to take the left between moving
lanes of autos, with at least a few trying to jump into the right-most
left turn lane). I simply feel nimbler and quicker (if not faster) on
other than a recumbent.
If I have a structured, low traffic commute, I might use one of my
recumbents, but in heavy traffic I go to either the Bike Friday or a
diamond frame for reasons other than speed. I don't see a fully faired
recumbent a viable commuter in most city traffic.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 28 Jan 2007 00:09:58
From: Dave Clary
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:36:15 -0500, Curtis L. Russell
<curtis@md-bicycling.org > wrote:
>On 24 Jan 2007 16:24:00 -0800, "JimM" <jimmilt@netzero.net> wrote:
>
>>Based on my albeit limited experience, unless you commute in an
>>especially hilly area, you should average a higher speed on a
>>recumbent, all things being equal (fitness, quality of bike, etc). I
>>was able to sustain average speeds of well over 25 mph on an Easy Racer
>>Gold Rush along the Erie Canal trail. In average physical shape at the
>>time. I could have hit upwards of 30 mph w/ additional effort.
>>YMMV
>
>I knew a person (via an older email group) that commuted on a fully
>faired recumbent and his biggest problem was not hills, but the
>combination of too many trucks 40 mph or better combined with too much
>side wind. Controlling his recumbent brought his effective speed way
>down.
Well here's a blast from the past. I commuted on a fully-faired
recumbent (a P-38 with an Ed Gin inspired fairing). It was pretty
fast but there was no way that I could approach the average speed the
OP was looking for in city traffic. And it was ultimately crazy
drivers and scary crosswinds that made me abandon the commute
altogether.
Now I get to sit back and see if anyone even finds this post in this
garbage-strewn NG. But first I'll kill file the obvious candidate and
see how many posts are left!! :-)
Dave Clary
Texas P-38 Squadron (Retired)
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Date: 29 Jan 2007 09:32:59
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:09:58 -0600, Dave Clary <dclary@stx.rr.com >
wrote:
>Well here's a blast from the past. I commuted on a fully-faired
>recumbent (a P-38 with an Ed Gin inspired fairing). It was pretty
>fast but there was no way that I could approach the average speed the
>OP was looking for in city traffic. And it was ultimately crazy
>drivers and scary crosswinds that made me abandon the commute
>altogether.
>
>Now I get to sit back and see if anyone even finds this post in this
>garbage-strewn NG. But first I'll kill file the obvious candidate and
>see how many posts are left!! :-)
Hey, I got it pretty close, now.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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Date: 28 Jan 2007 10:17:22
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Dave Clary wrote:
> It was pretty
> fast but there was no way that I could approach the average speed the
> OP was looking for in city traffic.
Sounds entirely reasonable: urban will often mean stop/start, where
high speed generally means an uninterrupted run. Without that
the sorts of mentioned are unlikely, I'd think.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 06:29:27
From: DanKMTB@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Thanks to all for the feedback. I'm left with a few questions, no
surprise. First, why would the Leitra be slower than the Quest or
Mango? Secondly, would someone really be any faster on the Mango than
on a high-end upright? It looks extremely cool if rather heavy. I can
envision myself spending a few thousand dollars & discovering that
it's actually significantly harder to ride to work than my regular
bicycle, perhaps due to the weight on the hills.
The F40 looks like an interesting solution as well. I have the same
reservations I have about the Mango, however. Also, the F40 is a
'bent with a fairing added. I wonder if a purpose-built velomobile
would be more efficient?
I've considered power-assisted vehicles, but don't think that's
the solution for me. A battery system would be too heavy when under my
own power to justify it's assistance, and would not have the juice
for my commute. It would also be very expensive with Lithium
batteries, and far too heavy to justify its weight with anything else.
A gas system would be add a few issues:
a) Smell. Parked inside & when running.
b) Legality. Suddenly it's a "motorized vehicle" and subject to
many laws & regs.
c) Personal satisfaction. At that point, why not take the car or
motorcycle? I could live with a little electric assist, but a gas
motor is too much.
It seems I set my expectations too high with my 30-40mph statement. I
would be OK with an average speed (including starts, stops & hills) of
20-25mph over my 37.92 mile ride home. My average last ride home was
15.58mph, giving me a 2:25hr ride on my steel singlespeed upright
bicycle. I'd need a 19mph average to get me under 2 hours. I
don't know if a lightweight geared road bike or a velomobile would
accomplish this or not. I also expect I'll be a little faster month
to month, at least until I get into peak shape.
I'd really like to speak with an upright rider who has logged some
miles in a velomobile to see how it compared. I'd hate to spend all
that money on one to find that I should have bought a road bike.
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 15:14:31
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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DanKMTB@gmail.com wrote:
> First, why would the Leitra be slower than the Quest or
> Mango?
Not as aerodynamic.
> Secondly, would someone really be any faster on the Mango than
> on a high-end upright?
Yes, because of the aerodynamics.
> It looks extremely cool if rather heavy.
Quite so, but as high speeds weight is less important than air
resistance. With "normal" race bikes the UCI specifically ban
aerodynamic aids, but using fairings the IHPVA speed records are about
30% better than the UCI "official" ones.
> I can
> envision myself spending a few thousand dollars & discovering that
> it's actually significantly harder to ride to work than my regular
> bicycle, perhaps due to the weight on the hills.
Once your speed drops under a critical value then weight will matter
more than the aerodynamics, but it's worth noting that the real-roads UK
"End to End" ride (over 800 miles with /lots/ of hills) has the record
held by a faired trike, with the rider taking his own upright racer
based record.
Also, what goes up, must come down, and then your aerodynamics wins out
again.
> The F40 looks like an interesting solution as well. I have the same
> reservations I have about the Mango, however. Also, the F40 is a
> 'bent with a fairing added. I wonder if a purpose-built velomobile
> would be more efficient?
What /may/ be the case is it's a lot more stable in side winds. Talk to
people with real experience of them for that though.
> It seems I set my expectations too high with my 30-40mph statement. I
> would be OK with an average speed (including starts, stops & hills) of
> 20-25mph over my 37.92 mile ride home. My average last ride home was
> 15.58mph, giving me a 2:25hr ride on my steel singlespeed upright
> bicycle. I'd need a 19mph average to get me under 2 hours. I
> don't know if a lightweight geared road bike or a velomobile would
> accomplish this or not. I also expect I'll be a little faster month
> to month, at least until I get into peak shape.
If the roads aren't particularly exceptionally poorly suited, a fully
faired machine should give you a more reliable overall figure (i.e.,
with less difference between still and headwind days). My guess is the
average should be better as long as you're keeping effort high, because
aerodynamics takes up the lion's share of the effort any time you're
above about 15 mph.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 05:34:52
From: stratrider
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On Jan 23, 4:54 pm, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Can I get a 30-40mph aerodynamic 'bent that will be reliable for daily
> riding without spending 10K?
No such bike or hpv exists at any price when you are talking about a
real world commute by a real world pilot. There are 50+ mile in hour
records held by exceptional pilots on a closed track (no hills, no
traffic lights ect.) but not in a real wolrd setting.
Jim Reilly
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 07:33:13
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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On 2007-01-24 13:34:52 +0000, "stratrider" <jreilly@enter.net > said:
>
>
> On Jan 23, 4:54 pm, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can I get a 30-40mph aerodynamic 'bent that will be reliable for daily
>> riding without spending 10K?
>
> No such bike or hpv exists at any price when you are talking about a
> real world commute by a real world pilot. There are 50+ mile in hour
> records held by exceptional pilots on a closed track (no hills, no
> traffic lights ect.) but not in a real wolrd setting.
>
> Jim Reilly
I do not think 30mph average is an unreasonable figure for a fully faired
velomobile ridden by a reasonably fit pilot.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 08:52:06
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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DanKMTB@gmail.com wrote:
> Can I get a 30-40mph aerodynamic 'bent that will be reliable for daily
> riding without spending 10K? I'd like to pedal my commute when I can,
> but am not willing to sell my car to make it happen. The Hammacher
> Schlemmer seems to be the cream of the crop. is there a heavier,
> slower version for a fraction of the $14K price tag? Any other cheaper
> bents you'd suggest I check out?
Probably the most popular fast velomoble of the moment is the Quest,
which you can find out about at http://www.velomobiel.nl/ and it comes
in at 40766 Euros without tax.
30783 Euros without tax will get you their "budget" model, the Mango,
which seems to have been well received but certainly isn't as fast.
Problems... there is, AIUI, a bit of a waiting list.
The Leitra (http://www.leitra.dk/) is ~4,500 Euros, won't be as quick as
the Dutch ones mentioned above but should move along at a tidy clip all
the same.
These are all machines that have been in production for some time and
have a track record of being usable, practical vehicles that work in
windy conditions.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 10:31:36
From: Roos Eisma
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > writes:
>Probably the most popular fast velomoble of the moment is the Quest,
>which you can find out about at http://www.velomobiel.nl/ and it comes
>in at 40766 Euros without tax.
>30783 Euros without tax will get you their "budget" model, the Mango,
>which seems to have been well received but certainly isn't as fast.
You seem to have some additional zeros here!
The website says 4766 euro and 3782 euro respectively.
Still not budget though.
Roos
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 10:38:31
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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Roos Eisma wrote:
> Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Probably the most popular fast velomoble of the moment is the Quest,
>> which you can find out about at http://www.velomobiel.nl/ and it comes
>> in at 40766 Euros without tax.
>> 30783 Euros without tax will get you their "budget" model, the Mango,
>> which seems to have been well received but certainly isn't as fast.
>
> You seem to have some additional zeros here!
> The website says 4766 euro and 3782 euro respectively.
> Still not budget though.
Oooops, they were commas in the original, wonder what happened there...
When it comes to velomobiles, of course, "budget" is a relative term,
but these are some way short of the $14K on the one the OP had found.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 23:18:32
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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DanKMTB@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm curious if anyone has come across a suitable bent for a reasonably
> long commute that doesn't cost a fortune? .....
Sure there are--I have a LWB that cost me about $1100, not counting the
accessories I've put on it. I cannot sustain anywhere near 40 MPH on it
however.
The aero advantage is true but is not really huge: an aero recumbent
(like a highracer) with fairing, sock and tailbox should be expected at
best to get you about 6 mph faster than you're pedaling now.
The record streamliners that an average person might be able to hold 40
mph on aren't real practical for regular street use. Most full-fairings
you find are for trikes due to their greater stability in crosswinds,
but they also have greater frontal area (all the fastest HPVs now are
bicycles).
-------
A recumbent wouldn't be much faster than an upright bike, but it would
be a lot more comfortable.
If any type of bicycle engines are legal where you live, you could get a
motor kit. Most of the electrics it seems aren't much good beyond 25
miles but the gasoline ones could certainly hold 25-30 mph
easily--although if the engine is limited in capacity by a small
built-in tank, you may have to stop to refuel halfway (either at a gas
station, or by carrying a bottle of fuel with you).
~
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 09:33:18
From: nget
Subject: Re: Commuting Alternative?
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DanKMTB@gmail.com Wrote:
> I'm curious if anyone has come across a suitable bent for a reasonably
> long commute that doesn't cost a fortune? I live just under 40 miles
> from my work, and sometimes ride my singlespeed upright home. I've
> lately been considering a fully geared road bike for this ride
> leaving
> my SS for a local bad-weather commuter. That was until I started
> researching HPV's, where I saw some things that interest me. I'v
> read
> of people who are not overly athletic covering 40 miles in an hour or
> just over on some of these sleek HPV's. I average about 15mph on my
> way home with my SS, and don't see gears bringing me to or past 20.
>
> Can I get a 30-40mph aerodynamic 'bent that will be reliable for daily
> riding without spending 10K? I'd like to pedal my commute when I can,
> but am not willing to sell my car to make it happen. The Hammacher
> Schlemmer seems to be the cream of the crop. is there a heavier,
> slower version for a fraction of the $14K price tag? Any othe
> cheaper
> bents you'd suggest I check out?
>
>
> TIA,
>
> Dan
Just to get things started here, have you looked into the F-40? It i
a p-38 with a fairing set up. I do think 25-30 mph is more realisti
but I am no expert on streamliners.
k the bike
--
nget
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