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Date: 15 Jan 2006 21:40:50
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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Hi, All:
Why is the Grasshopper cheaper despite being lighter than the SMGT(e)?
It shares the same features and options -- full-suspension, Bodylink
seating, USS/OSS -- except for being 20/20.
How do they perform? They even look the same, really!
TIA!
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Date: 17 Jan 2006 01:12:18
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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Peter Clinch, Medical Physics IT Officer, wrote:
> Jeff Grippe wrote:
>
> > Very curious about that. You would think that someplace where bikes are used
> > more for commutation and practical purposes and less as a "hobby" that they
> > would gravitate to the more comfortable and less performance oriented
> > vehicles.
>
> They do: the classic Dutch roadster is a fine example of a comfortable
> bike that isn't build for Whizz, with its bolt upright seating position
> leaving no weight on your arms but leaving plenty of scope for air
> resistance....
For a Dutch bike, I want a Challenge NME (see
<http://www.challengebikes.com/html/index.php?taal=en > and scroll down
a bit), :)
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit?)
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Date: 17 Jan 2006 04:09:24
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1137489138.041826.291370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Peter Clinch, Medical Physics IT Officer, wrote:
>> Jeff Grippe wrote:
>>
>> > Very curious about that. You would think that someplace where bikes are
>> > used
>> > more for commutation and practical purposes and less as a "hobby" that
>> > they
>> > would gravitate to the more comfortable and less performance oriented
>> > vehicles.
>>
>> They do: the classic Dutch roadster is a fine example of a comfortable
>> bike that isn't build for Whizz, with its bolt upright seating position
>> leaving no weight on your arms but leaving plenty of scope for air
>> resistance....
>
> For a Dutch bike, I want a Challenge NME (see
> <http://www.challengebikes.com/html/index.php?taal=en> and scroll down
> a bit), :)
I am with Jeff on this one - and Peter is right too, even though he is a
Medical Physics IT Officer.
It is time for Mr. Sherman to grow up and stop living in fantasy land. Low
racers are for racing in velodromes, not for riding in the streets and on
the highways of the real world. I urge Mr. Sherman to stop all this useless
dreaming or he will go crazy from the frustration of it all. I urge on him
the Ed Dolan solution to all of life's conundrums - despair!
I grow old . I grow old .
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
T.S.Eliot - The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
T.S.Eliot - The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
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Date: 16 Jan 2006 02:03:14
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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NYC XYZ wrote:
> Thanks again for the input, Peter!
>
> Man, looks like you Europeans have got it together.
>
> I'm still shocked that not one shop in NYC does 'bents as a regular
> part of their inventory!!!
Well, beyond one or two models, I mean (though even then, this is just
a handful of shops in a city of millions).
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Date: 16 Jan 2006 01:58:13
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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Thanks again for the input, Peter!
Man, looks like you Europeans have got it together.
I'm still shocked that not one shop in NYC does 'bents as a regular
part of their inventory!!!
Peter Clinch wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> > Why is the Grasshopper cheaper despite being lighter than the SMGT(e)?
>
> In the UK list prices all three cost the same (=A31425 for the basic
> complete bike with V brakes).
>
> > How do they perform? They even look the same, really!
>
> I found the Streetamchine to give a slightly more refined feeling ride,
> the GH is a bit sportier. I think it's more riding position than
> anything else (GH is sort of half way between a StM and a SpM). The
> lowrider racks on the GH are further back (have to be with the lower
> seat) so it won't take really heavy loads so well, but that's only an
> issue if you'll be carrying heavy loads.
>
> As usual, the advice is try them out and see for yourself. I've come
> across people who prefer the GH, I prefer the StM. Mileage varies. On
> paper, the GH was the ideal bike for Roos, but she chose a Nazca Fiero
> instead after riding both (she started 'bent riding on my StM and though
> she thinks it's okay, not okay enough to want one herself). Don't think
> Nazca have a US importer though...
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 16 Jan 2006 10:48:07
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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NYC XYZ wrote:
> Man, looks like you Europeans have got it together.
>
> I'm still shocked that not one shop in NYC does 'bents as a regular
> part of their inventory!!!
Up to a point. I only have to travel 80 miles to get to a 'bentmonger...
There are 6 'bent shops plus another 3 "by appointment" dealers in the
UK that I know about, and Windcheetah, ICE and Burrows will probably
deal direct. That's serving a population of ~60 million.
It's easier in the NL, but even in "the land of bikes" it's unusual to
see a 'bent or a 'bent dealer.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 16 Jan 2006 08:48:10
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote in message
news:431bqoF1ll0hsU1@individual.net...
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> It's easier in the NL, but even in "the land of bikes" it's unusual to see
> a 'bent or a 'bent dealer.
>
Very curious about that. You would think that someplace where bikes are used
more for commutation and practical purposes and less as a "hobby" that they
would gravitate to the more comfortable and less performance oriented
vehicles. I would expect Rhoades Cars (or a European version of it) to be
quite popular but I gather that isn't the case.
I know that in Denk the following are true (as of about 10 years ago)
1. They don't make any cars
2. There is a 100% import duty on cars.
3. Bicycles are widely used as commuting and utility vehicles
4. I saw very few (make that none) recumbents
I would think they would be a huge hit there. While Leitra has sold about
400 vehicles in over 20 years of production I'll bet a good percentage of
them were for export.
Still the Danish society is really well set up to accommodate bicycles. On
my last trip there (I do miss getting to go there on a regular basis) I saw
what I thought was the ultimate accommodation of a society for bicycles. I
was in Copenhagen and I saw a woman with a bicycle. The bicycle had a basket
in the front with a few bags of groceries. On the back of the bicycle was a
child seat with a child. She was hailing a cab. I thought that this would be
interesting. A cab stopped. The driver pulled a bike rack out of the trunk
that inserted into two sockets on the rear of the car. He put the groceries
in the trunk, the bike on the rack, and the people got in the cab. After he
drove away I noticed that almost every cab had these same sockets. I can
only assume that they also carried bike racks as well. If only NYC were like
that.
Jeff
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Date: 16 Jan 2006 14:15:40
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
> Very curious about that. You would think that someplace where bikes are used
> more for commutation and practical purposes and less as a "hobby" that they
> would gravitate to the more comfortable and less performance oriented
> vehicles.
They do: the classic Dutch roadster is a fine example of a comfortable
bike that isn't build for Whizz, with its bolt upright seating position
leaving no weight on your arms but leaving plenty of scope for air
resistance.
If you take a not entirely atypical Dutch urban street it may well be
filled with fairly narrow houses with little storage facilities for
bikes, so lots of people leave bikes outside. Parking your bike at the
station is often nearer a pile than a row, so it makes sense to have
something you can leave out in the rain and not begrudge the odd
scratch, and not mind /too/ much if it goes AWOL in an environment where
bike thieves are far from uncommon. In such circumstances a steel
roadster with a full chain case, one gear and one backpedal brake that's
built like a tank and has no trouble taking your pal on the rear rack
makes a lot of very good sense, especially as they can be had for very
little money (especially the ones recycled by the thieves...).
OTOH If you live out on the polders and are commuting 20km into a
vicious headwind on a daily basis it's a different matter, and it's also
no surprise that the home of the Dutch velomobile industry is out on the
Flevoland polder. But more people live in Amsterdam than Flevoland, I
think!
While a recumbent bike makes an awful lot of sense in most of the NL
while you're actually /riding/ it, it makes considerably less when it
comes to park and store. If I lived in Amsterdam I'd probably have a
roadster for general travel and a cargo bike for loads, and only if
there was interior storage after that would I get a 'bent. And I'm
already a convert!
(I'd expressed similar surprise first time we visited Roos' old home
town, and she pointed out all the ways a 'bent doesn't make much sense
to many: last trip, just before Christmas, I did see one 'bent in The
Hague, a Flevobike (parked outside in the street).)
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 16 Jan 2006 09:57:17
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Difference between Grasshopper and SMGT(e)???
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NYC XYZ wrote:
> Why is the Grasshopper cheaper despite being lighter than the SMGT(e)?
In the UK list prices all three cost the same (=A31425 for the basic=20
complete bike with V brakes).
> How do they perform? They even look the same, really!
I found the Streetamchine to give a slightly more refined feeling ride,=20
the GH is a bit sportier. I think it's more riding position than=20
anything else (GH is sort of half way between a StM and a SpM). The=20
lowrider racks on the GH are further back (have to be with the lower=20
seat) so it won't take really heavy loads so well, but that's only an=20
issue if you'll be carrying heavy loads.
As usual, the advice is try them out and see for yourself. I've come=20
across people who prefer the GH, I prefer the StM. Mileage varies. On=20
paper, the GH was the ideal bike for Roos, but she chose a Nazca Fiero=20
instead after riding both (she started 'bent riding on my StM and though =
she thinks it's okay, not okay enough to want one herself). Don't think =
Nazca have a US importer though...
Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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