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Main
Date: 24 Jul 2005 18:11:11
From: Bruce Davis
Subject: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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I just discovered this Newsgroup, and my newsreader only downloads the July
posts, so I apologize if this has already been a topic of discussion in the
recent past.
My question relates to whether you think that recumbents are any more prone
to spills than a regular bike is. Here's the genesis of my question:
I bought an EZ Racer Tour Easy in September 2004. I am 44 years old, and
have been a recreational cyclist for a number of years. I was never one of
those super-serious bikers in the multicolored spandex shirts and
super-speedy racing bikes. I simply rode a Trek hybrid on the occasional
weekend on bike paths. But I found cycling on a regular bike to be painful
after about ten miles -- my back and butt would be sore, and my weiner would
be numb after a ride. So when I first found out about recumbents, they
sounded like they'd be just what the doctor ordered.
I bought my EZ Racer last September, and for my inaugural ride I took it out
on a paved trail in local state park. Well, within five minutes of my
first-ever ride, I broke my ankle. I was coming down a slight slope, perhaps
going a little too fast for a novice, and came upon some wet leaves on the
trail. The bike started sliding, I braked, and it slid out from under me.
When I put my left foot down to the ground, I rolled over and onto the
ground. I ended up with my left foot pointing 90 degrees to the right. I lay
on the trail for about fifteen minutes before some hikers discovered me, and
went and found a park ranger, who called an ambulance. I was hauled off to
the hospital. I had to have my ankle sliced open like a fish's belly, and a
plate was screwed into my badly broken bones with about nine screws. I spent
the next six months recovering -- two months in a cast, a month with a
removable walking-cast, two months in physical therapy, etc.
Well, finally this spring I felt that my ankle was recovered enough to give
it another shot. I've taken my EZ Racer out about four times in the past few
months, and must say that I really enjoy it. But at the same time, I find it
somewhat unstable. I thought maybe it would take time to get the hang of it,
and then I'd be tooling around with ease. But I find that even after a
number of rides of long length, the bike seems a bit wobbly at times and
difficult to control. For example, if I take one hand off the handlebars to
take a sip of water, it seems like I am risking disaster. The bike is only
stable with two hands firmly gripping the handlebars. Contrast this with a
standard bike, on which it is fairly easy to ride with no hands, let alone
one hand (on the recumbent, the old saying "Look Ma, no teeth!" really seems
to apply.). And when someone passes me from behind, and I want to give them
ample room to get by, I find it somewhat difficult to keep the bike in a
perfectly straight line, and worry that I'll suddenly veer to the left and
crash into the passer.
And now, just yesterday, I had another spill. I was on the Schuylkill Trail,
which is a paved path between Valley Forge and Philadelphia. I was having a
great ride, averaging about 16 MPH, and generally enjoying life. The paved
portion of the trail is about 13 miles from Valley Forge to where it hits
Manayunk (a Philadelphia neighborhood famous for the "Manayunk Wall" in the
annual USPro bike race). When the trail hits Manayunk, there is an unpaved
portion of about a half-mile between the end of the trail and the streets of
Manayunk. I had ridden this unpaved area numerous times on my Trek hybrid in
years past, so I thought I'd give it a go with my 'bent. I thought I might
stop at a Manayunk brew-pub for a pint before heading back to Valley Forge
(I don't advocate drinking and riding, but I figured a single pint wouldn't
whack me out.) Anyway, I was doing well on the packed dirt, when suddenly in
front of me was a very sandy portion of trail, maybe three feet long. I
figured if I just kept my front wheel straight, I'd plow right through the
sandy soil, and continue on my way. But as soon as my front wheel hit the
sandy area, the wheel suddently slid, and I went down hard on my right leg.
I jumped up quickly to make sure I hadn't broken anything, and luckily I had
not. But I did have a large red scrape all the way from my knee to my ankle.
Despite a moderate amount of pain, I was very relieved that there were no
serious injuries, and that I wouldn't be spending the next three months on
crutches. I decided to forego the brew-pub, and headed back to Valley Forge.
All-in-all, I had had a great day, and very much enjoyed the 26-mile ride.
But my spill at the halfway k got me worried again about whether there is
something inherently dangerous about this bike.
So my questions are:
1. Are recumbents generally less stable than regular bikes (more prone to
crashes), or does it just take more experience to get the "hang of it"?
2. Are there precautions that must be taken with recumbents so that a.) one
does not take a spill; and b.) if one does take a spill, is there a certain
way to fall to lessen the chance of serious injury?
The bottom line is that I love my recumbent, have no buyer's remorse, and
will continue to ride it; but I'm just curious about whether anyone out
there has any suggestions or comments that will put my mind at ease, so that
I can just enjoy my rides without constantly worrying that I'm going to end
up in the hospital again.
(By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
"Dolan, you're a genius!")
--Bruce Davis
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Date: 02 Aug 2005 14:08:19
From:
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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I am a top poster = > industry standard for technical fields. For some
reason this really bothers Ed Dolan.
Back on topic:
I has found that my close encounters with earth on a recumbent tend to
be at low speeds when the bike is least stable. These have occurred
when the front tire has lost air or the road has turned to soft dirt
[also read: sand]. To avoid these situations:
1) I check my front tire as soon as the front tire gets wobbly
2) I stay on the pavement and will walk the bike over dirt sections of
the road.
My falls on a recumbent are sudden ungraceful butt bounces or hip sits
with accompaning bruises or scrapes. I consider these low speed
impacts a vast improvement over the arm, rib or shoulder injuries that
I have been awarded with while riding an upwrong.
I echo the much earlier comment that pedal clips prevent many [not all]
injuries both like you experienced and the well known "leg suck"
manuever. Warning: pedal clips questions can spontaneously generate
flame wars.
Snowman
Mike Rice wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:02:33 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
yada, yada, yada
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| | |
Date: 02 Aug 2005 16:40:21
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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<snowman9@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1123016899.009656.123680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>I am a top poster => industry standard for technical fields. For some
> reason this really bothers Ed Dolan.
We are on literary standards for ARBR, which most definitely is NOT a
technical field. What is required for posting to ARBR is an IQ of about 100,
although we have some few here who are bona fide idiots and morons. All the
idiots and morons top post without giving any quotation or even attribution
to anyone.
There is nothing more reprehensible in the entire universe than top posting.
Every time I see it my blood pressure goes into the stratosphere. It has
gotten to the point where I think some are top posting on purpose because
they are trying to cause my premature death. But I am determined to hang in
there for as long as I can and forever excoriate such miscreants to my dying
breath. Curses on all top posters! I will see them in Hell.
> Back on topic:
>
> I has found that my close encounters with earth on a recumbent tend to
> be at low speeds when the bike is least stable. These have occurred
> when the front tire has lost air or the road has turned to soft dirt
> [also read: sand]. To avoid these situations:
> 1) I check my front tire as soon as the front tire gets wobbly
> 2) I stay on the pavement and will walk the bike over dirt sections of
> the road.
>
> My falls on a recumbent are sudden ungraceful butt bounces or hip sits
> with accompaning bruises or scrapes. I consider these low speed
> impacts a vast improvement over the arm, rib or shoulder injuries that
> I have been awarded with while riding an upwrong.
>
> I echo the much earlier comment that pedal clips prevent many [not all]
> injuries both like you experienced and the well known "leg suck"
> manuever. Warning: pedal clips questions can spontaneously generate
> flame wars.
Well, if you have only had slow speed falls, then consider yourself lucky.
If and when you have a high speed fall, you will not be so blasé about it
all. The fact is that you can get hurt very badly on a recumbent the same as
you can on an upright. I have seen several recumbent cyclists being picked
up off the road in an ambulance and being taken to the hospital emergency
room.
By the way, the older you get the less you want to fall. Your chances of
breaking some bones goes way up with age - and the healing process takes
forever.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
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Date: 27 Jul 2005 07:08:11
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:VJOdnf2o57aaj3nfRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
[...]
> The bottom line is that I love my recumbent, have no buyer's remorse, and
> will continue to ride it; but I'm just curious about whether anyone out
> there has any suggestions or comments that will put my mind at ease, so
> that I can just enjoy my rides without constantly worrying that I'm going
> to end up in the hospital again.
[...]
>
> --Bruce Davis
Bruce, you have had very bad luck riding your Tour Easy. I have also got
that bike (a home made version) and the light front end can and will cause
problems if you aren't attentive to road surface conditions.
I like to ride my bikes with my head in the clouds, but I only do that when
going slow and I am sure of the road surface. When I speed up I have to get
focused on any kind of a recumbent. In my opinion, recumbents are more
unstable than uprights and they handle very differently. I admire those who
can go fast on recumbents, but I am never comfortable going fast on a
recumbent.
The worst spill I have ever had was on a recumbent (RANS V2). I was going
about 30 mph and got my front wheel caught in a longitudinal crack in the
road. I went down hard in a split second. I don't believe I would have had
that particular accident on an upright, but still I know it can happen
because I have seen uprights also go down under the same condition. Watch
out for those longitudinal cracks in the road!
Regards,
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
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Date: 28 Jul 2005 01:38:55
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:08:11 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
<excellent post snipped >
>
>The worst spill I have ever had was on a recumbent (RANS V2). I was going
>about 30 mph and got my front wheel caught in a longitudinal crack in the
>road. I went down hard in a split second. I don't believe I would have had
>that particular accident on an upright, but still I know it can happen
>because I have seen uprights also go down under the same condition. Watch
>out for those longitudinal cracks in the road!
>
>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
Hi Ed.
When you had that spill were you injured? I certainly am acquinted
with how quickly the Tour Easy can flip its rider sideways.
Indiana Mike
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Date: 28 Jul 2005 02:02:33
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:1kdge1pisuvpfe6500210hn7bggh6b6bvs@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:08:11 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
> <excellent post snipped>
>>
>>The worst spill I have ever had was on a recumbent (RANS V2). I was going
>>about 30 mph and got my front wheel caught in a longitudinal crack in the
>>road. I went down hard in a split second. I don't believe I would have had
>>that particular accident on an upright, but still I know it can happen
>>because I have seen uprights also go down under the same condition. Watch
>>out for those longitudinal cracks in the road!
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>>
>>
>
> Hi Ed.
>
> When you had that spill were you injured? I certainly am acquinted
> with how quickly the Tour Easy can flip its rider sideways.
>
> Indiana Mike
The RANS V2 is a long wheel base much like the Tour Easy, except that it has
a much higher crank. The Mueller Fairing may have prevented me from seeing
the road crack as it lines up all wrong for good road viewing.
When you fall on a LWB you will generally go down sideways and land on your
hip and/or elbow. The seat edge took much of the force, but I also had a
bruised hip and wondered at first if I had broken anything. I went down with
the bike because it happened so fast I did not have time to think what to
do. If I had thought, I might have put my leg out to brake the fall and been
infinitely worse off as a result.
I do not like to have bike accidents and I will spend days after an accident
analyzing what went wrong. As a result of my RANS V2 accident, I resolved to
slow down and pay more attention to those longitudinal cracks in the road. I
may get rid of the fairing too as it prevents me from seeing the road right
ahead of me well.
Regards,
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 02:39:22
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:02:33 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
<Big Snip >
>may get rid of the fairing too as it prevents me from seeing the road right
>ahead of me well.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
My fairing doesn't seem to interfere on the Tour Easy. With the higher
bb are you normally more reclined on the V2?
Indiana Mike
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 12:08:29
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:ti5je195oh0fde3nb04oh8pqn49fsj4ljt@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:02:33 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
> <Big Snip>
>
>>may get rid of the fairing too as it prevents me from seeing the road
>>right
>>ahead of me well.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>>
>
> My fairing doesn't seem to interfere on the Tour Easy. With the higher
> bb are you normally more reclined on the V2?
>
> Indiana Mike
Mike, I have a Zipper faring on my TE too and it does not interfere with
seeing the road surface up ahead. But the Meuller fairing does. It is
because you are much more laid back on the RANS V2. We sit more upright on
our TE and this makes all the difference in the world. You cannot sit too
upright on a high crank recumbent unless you like the feeling of your legs
chugging into your gut. The P-38 is notorious for giving you this sensation.
The main advantage of a more laid back seat is comfort. I can actually
experience a bit of seat discomfort on the TE after many hours on it. That
never happens when you are sufficiently laid back.
The old Visions were the most comfortable recumbents ever made. I had mine
set up LWB and really laid the seat back. Riding around on my Vision is as
comfortable as sitting here at home in my easy chair. That Vision seat was a
miracle (however, I did have to layer in a higher quality of foam for the
seat base).
The secret to all day comfort on a recumbent is to get the seat laid back.
You can only do this on a recumbent with a reasonably high crank (but not
too high). I think the optimum level for the crank is slightly below the
seat base. The RANS Tailwind got it about right in my opinion. The current
crop of recumbents are getting the crank way too high. Thus spake
Zarathustra.
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 13:34:02
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:g_Sdnb_pTZ0J_3ffRVn-gg@prairiewave.com...
>
> The old Visions were the most comfortable recumbents ever made. I had mine
> set up LWB and really laid the seat back. Riding around on my Vision is as
> comfortable as sitting here at home in my easy chair. That Vision seat was
> a miracle (however, I did have to layer in a higher quality of foam for
> the seat base).
>
I'll grant you that the Vision seat was very comfortable BUT as long as
we're on the topic of crashes. I've had two and both were on a Vision. The
first one was my fault (I rode smack into a railroad tie that I didn't see).
The second I blame on the Vision Seat.
The seat on my Vision was attached using velcro. It is the one element of
the bike that I wasn't thrilled with. Because I tip the scales at about 250
I was always worried that velcro was not really strong enough to do the job
of supporting me. The dealer told me that he had sold them to bigger people
than me and that I shouldn't worry. I guess the bigger people that bought
them didn't ride them very much.
One day, as I was riding at a pretty good clip, the velcro came undone and I
went down hard. Fortunately I was near a county park so I was able to get
myself patched up at a first aid stand but I never felt safe on that bike
again. Vision replaced the seat with a heavier duty model that used much
less velcro but I sold the bike without ever riding it again.
Jeff
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 13:13:07
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com > wrote in message
news:11ekq5tkirdh606@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:g_Sdnb_pTZ0J_3ffRVn-gg@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> The old Visions were the most comfortable recumbents ever made. I had
>> mine set up LWB and really laid the seat back. Riding around on my Vision
>> is as comfortable as sitting here at home in my easy chair. That Vision
>> seat was a miracle (however, I did have to layer in a higher quality of
>> foam for the seat base).
>>
>
> I'll grant you that the Vision seat was very comfortable BUT as long as
> we're on the topic of crashes. I've had two and both were on a Vision. The
> first one was my fault (I rode smack into a railroad tie that I didn't
> see). The second I blame on the Vision Seat.
>
> The seat on my Vision was attached using velcro. It is the one element of
> the bike that I wasn't thrilled with. Because I tip the scales at about
> 250 I was always worried that velcro was not really strong enough to do
> the job of supporting me. The dealer told me that he had sold them to
> bigger people than me and that I shouldn't worry. I guess the bigger
> people that bought them didn't ride them very much.
>
> One day, as I was riding at a pretty good clip, the velcro came undone and
> I went down hard. Fortunately I was near a county park so I was able to
> get myself patched up at a first aid stand but I never felt safe on that
> bike again. Vision replaced the seat with a heavier duty model that used
> much less velcro but I sold the bike without ever riding it again.
Jeff, your experience with the Vision seat I find very interesting. It is
why this newsgroup exists, to bring different views together for comparison.
I weigh 150 pounds and I have ridden my Vision on every tour I have ever
done. I ride it hard and I ride it fast. I have never had the slightest
problem with the velcro. I did wear through the seat fabric though and had
to have it patched by the local upholstery shop.
I remember something I read once what Gardner tin, the designer of the
Tour Easy, said about how to design recumbents. He said he designs them for
250 pound guys like you because they constitute a large share of the ket
for recumbents. I think that is true. I do see very many heavy folks on
recumbents. This makes a lot of sense because it is very hard for big and
heavy guys to ever get any comfort on an upright.
I think your problem with the velcro on your Vison seat could have been
repaired by a leather shop with needle and thread. But I agree, once you
suffer a bad crash on a bike, the bloom is off and one gets discouraged.
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 17:30:32
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:DP2dnRnjic8n7HffRVn-ig@prairiewave.com...
>
> I remember something I read once what Gardner tin, the designer of the
> Tour Easy, said about how to design recumbents. He said he designs them
> for
> 250 pound guys like you because they constitute a large share of the
> ket
> for recumbents. I think that is true. I do see very many heavy folks on
> recumbents. This makes a lot of sense because it is very hard for big and
> heavy guys to ever get any comfort on an upright.
>
I'm not surprised to learn this. I came to recumbents because of my search
for the ever more comfortable bicycle. I've done centuries on upright bikes
but the sensation of getting back on the bike after a rest stop was just
awful.
What makes recumbents bad for people my size is how terrible they are on
hills. I recall one hill in CT that I finally walked up after falling off my
bike (Infinity recumbent) 5 times because I couldn't keep up enough speed.
This is what led me to trikes. I test rode some trikes on a fairly hilly
test course and found that I could just drop it into low gear and make it up
anything at whatever speed I desired. As you know, I can even stop in the
middle of a hill to rest (I never do though but I've tried it just to
convince myself that it could be done.)
So I sold all my bikes and I now ride trikes exclusively.
Ah but then I discovered rail-trails which are essentially flat. I will
probably pick up a bike again just to take on "rail-trail only" trips.
BTW it is easy for heavy guys to get comfort on an upright. They just have
to lose weight. Losing weight is the hard part, however.
Jeff
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 22:16:54
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11el8efenmhh37f@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:DP2dnRnjic8n7HffRVn-ig@prairiewave.com...
>>
>
>> I remember something I read once what Gardner tin, the designer of the
>> Tour Easy, said about how to design recumbents. He said he designs them
>> for
>> 250 pound guys like you because they constitute a large share of the
>> ket
>> for recumbents. I think that is true. I do see very many heavy folks on
>> recumbents. This makes a lot of sense because it is very hard for big and
>> heavy guys to ever get any comfort on an upright.
>>
>
> I'm not surprised to learn this. I came to recumbents because of my search
> for the ever more comfortable bicycle. I've done centuries on upright
> bikes but the sensation of getting back on the bike after a rest stop was
> just awful.
>
> What makes recumbents bad for people my size is how terrible they are on
> hills. I recall one hill in CT that I finally walked up after falling off
> my bike (Infinity recumbent) 5 times because I couldn't keep up enough
> speed.
I have two Infinty recumbents, one being the all square tube. I don't ride
them much anymore but I still think they are the best looking recumbents
ever made. I first saw them in a Bike Nashbar catalog and immediately wanted
one.
> This is what led me to trikes. I test rode some trikes on a fairly hilly
> test course and found that I could just drop it into low gear and make it
> up anything at whatever speed I desired. As you know, I can even stop in
> the middle of a hill to rest (I never do though but I've tried it just to
> convince myself that it could be done.)
I have walked up many a hill and think nothing of it.
> So I sold all my bikes and I now ride trikes exclusively.
>
> Ah but then I discovered rail-trails which are essentially flat. I will
> probably pick up a bike again just to take on "rail-trail only" trips.
Rail trails work equally well for both bikes and trikes. But hills are the
pits for recumbents. I just about die of laughter when I hear guys saying
that recumbents are just as good on hills as uprights. Some idiot even told
me once that recumbents were better on hills. You have to work twice as hard
to get up a hill on a recumbent as you do on an upright. This is so
elementary that I refuse to even discuss it anymore with anyone.
> BTW it is easy for heavy guys to get comfort on an upright. They just have
> to lose weight. Losing weight is the hard part, however.
Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's better
off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It is what
comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India, until
recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as rails. Who
wants to be a peon.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 16:10:58
From: Into the living sea of waking dreams
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
> news:11el8efenmhh37f@news.supernews.com...
>
>>"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>news:DP2dnRnjic8n7HffRVn-ig@prairiewave.com...
>>
>>>I remember something I read once what Gardner tin, the designer of the
>>>Tour Easy, said about how to design recumbents. He said he designs them
>>>for
>>>250 pound guys like you because they constitute a large share of the
>>>ket
>>>for recumbents. I think that is true. I do see very many heavy folks on
>>>recumbents. This makes a lot of sense because it is very hard for big and
>>>heavy guys to ever get any comfort on an upright.
>>>
>>
>>I'm not surprised to learn this. I came to recumbents because of my search
>>for the ever more comfortable bicycle. I've done centuries on upright
>>bikes but the sensation of getting back on the bike after a rest stop was
>>just awful.
>>
>>What makes recumbents bad for people my size is how terrible they are on
>>hills. I recall one hill in CT that I finally walked up after falling off
>>my bike (Infinity recumbent) 5 times because I couldn't keep up enough
>>speed.
>
>
> I have two Infinty recumbents, one being the all square tube. I don't ride
> them much anymore but I still think they are the best looking recumbents
> ever made. I first saw them in a Bike Nashbar catalog and immediately wanted
> one.
>
>
>>This is what led me to trikes. I test rode some trikes on a fairly hilly
>>test course and found that I could just drop it into low gear and make it
>>up anything at whatever speed I desired. As you know, I can even stop in
>>the middle of a hill to rest (I never do though but I've tried it just to
>>convince myself that it could be done.)
>
>
> I have walked up many a hill and think nothing of it.
>
>
>>So I sold all my bikes and I now ride trikes exclusively.
>>
>>Ah but then I discovered rail-trails which are essentially flat. I will
>>probably pick up a bike again just to take on "rail-trail only" trips.
>
>
> Rail trails work equally well for both bikes and trikes. But hills are the
> pits for recumbents. I just about die of laughter when I hear guys saying
> that recumbents are just as good on hills as uprights. Some idiot even told
> me once that recumbents were better on hills. You have to work twice as hard
> to get up a hill on a recumbent as you do on an upright. This is so
> elementary that I refuse to even discuss it anymore with anyone.
>
>
>>BTW it is easy for heavy guys to get comfort on an upright. They just have
>>to lose weight. Losing weight is the hard part, however.
>
>
> Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's better
> off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It is what
> comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India, until
> recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as rails. Who
> wants to be a peon.
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
>
>
>
>
I have prostate problems, consequence of getting older, I guess.
I remember riding for hours w no problems back in the '70's.
now, after 1/2 to hour of riding, I have penile numbness.
So in 1994, I bought an Infinity, square tube, aluminum, long wheel base.
I have ridden the Hotter than Hell Hundred with it several times, with
no problems, however, it was slow.
Last year, I got a Vision 40 short wheel base. It is significantly
faster. I rode the hundred at the HHH in 6 hours and 54 minutes, my
second fastest time, fastest on a recumbent.
This year, I rode the metric century, without stopping in 4 hours flat.
I have had two crashes on a Recumbent, only one of consequence.
Once, going down a hill in rain, don't know what happened, but I was on
my face, and the bike was on top of me. Driver of car following said it
was quite spectacular. Just contusions, rain lubricated my skidding on
road, so not too bad, for doing about 20-30 mph.
Second, going around corner, on the Infinity, the front wheel hit some
gravel, and skidded, dumped me on my butt at about 6-10 mph. only fell
about a foot, kinda humorous really.
j.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Sep 2005 16:50:38
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Into the living sea of waking dreams" <nospam@nospam.net > wrote in message
news:moZTe.599$Xq6.445@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
[...]
> I have had two crashes on a Recumbent, only one of consequence.
>
> Once, going down a hill in rain, don't know what happened, but I was on my
> face, and the bike was on top of me. Driver of car following said it was
> quite spectacular. Just contusions, rain lubricated my skidding on road,
> so not too bad, for doing about 20-30 mph.
>
> Second, going around corner, on the Infinity, the front wheel hit some
> gravel, and skidded, dumped me on my butt at about 6-10 mph. only fell
> about a foot, kinda humorous really.
Your crash on the Infinity is the classic crash for long wheel base
recumbents. I think it has happened to just about everyone. The only cure
for it is to be careful when going around a corner, especially if loose
gravel is present on the road surface. It comes from the front wheel being
lightly loaded. These type of crashes seldom happen on an upright.
--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Sep 2005 19:29:54
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
I never crashed my Infinity. I still wonder why I didn't hang on to that
bike.
All of my crashes (2) were on the Vision. One was clearly my fault (I
piloted the thing into a railroad tie at about 20 MPH). The other I blame on
the Vision. I never liked the seat held together with velcro. The person who
sold it to me assured me that he sold them to heavier riders and they had no
problem. Maybe the heavier riders didn't actually ride much. My seat came
undone while I was doing about 20 MPH (I detect a pattern here. Visions tend
to crash when you are going 20 MPH).
Jeff
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:c5ednYfUbcaoL73eRVn-pw@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Into the living sea of waking dreams" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in
> message news:moZTe.599$Xq6.445@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
> [...]
>> I have had two crashes on a Recumbent, only one of consequence.
>>
>> Once, going down a hill in rain, don't know what happened, but I was on
>> my face, and the bike was on top of me. Driver of car following said it
>> was quite spectacular. Just contusions, rain lubricated my skidding on
>> road, so not too bad, for doing about 20-30 mph.
>>
>> Second, going around corner, on the Infinity, the front wheel hit some
>> gravel, and skidded, dumped me on my butt at about 6-10 mph. only fell
>> about a foot, kinda humorous really.
>
> Your crash on the Infinity is the classic crash for long wheel base
> recumbents. I think it has happened to just about everyone. The only cure
> for it is to be careful when going around a corner, especially if loose
> gravel is present on the road surface. It comes from the front wheel being
> lightly loaded. These type of crashes seldom happen on an upright.
>
> --
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Sep 2005 19:54:24
From: Mark Leuck
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:11i1ibn4c0hqi42@news.supernews.com...
> I never crashed my Infinity. I still wonder why I didn't hang on to that
> bike.
>
> All of my crashes (2) were on the Vision. One was clearly my fault (I
> piloted the thing into a railroad tie at about 20 MPH). The other I blame
on
> the Vision. I never liked the seat held together with velcro. The person
who
> sold it to me assured me that he sold them to heavier riders and they had
no
> problem. Maybe the heavier riders didn't actually ride much. My seat came
> undone while I was doing about 20 MPH (I detect a pattern here. Visions
tend
> to crash when you are going 20 MPH).
>
> Jeff
I never had a problem with my Vision crashing above 20 and unless you are
grossly overweight (?) the velcro seat will stay on
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 09 Sep 2005 06:23:56
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
I am overweight (250 lbs, probably a little less back when I owned the
Vision) but the bike shop owner knew this when he sold me the bike. I am one
of those people who is in the "fat but fit" category. This means that when I
buy a piece of athletic equipment, it actually gets used.
I had concerns about the Vision seat from day one but the shop told me that
it would not be a problem. I had dealt with them before so I trusted them.
For the first year it wasn't a problem. The seat coming undone happened in
year 2. I can only conclude that the only way that seat will work for
heavier riders is if they don't actually ride much.
Vision did finally send me a version of the seat that didn't depend on
Velcro to stay on the frame but by that time I had already lost confidence
in the bike and was looking to sell it.
Jeff
"k Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:zKqdnS_pmssnQL3eRVn-uw@comcast.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:11i1ibn4c0hqi42@news.supernews.com...
>> I never crashed my Infinity. I still wonder why I didn't hang on to that
>> bike.
>>
>> All of my crashes (2) were on the Vision. One was clearly my fault (I
>> piloted the thing into a railroad tie at about 20 MPH). The other I blame
> on
>> the Vision. I never liked the seat held together with velcro. The person
> who
>> sold it to me assured me that he sold them to heavier riders and they had
> no
>> problem. Maybe the heavier riders didn't actually ride much. My seat came
>> undone while I was doing about 20 MPH (I detect a pattern here. Visions
> tend
>> to crash when you are going 20 MPH).
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I never had a problem with my Vision crashing above 20 and unless you are
> grossly overweight (?) the velcro seat will stay on
>
>
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 09 Sep 2005 06:20:47
From: Mark Leuck
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:11i2om2em0bbq9c@news.supernews.com...
> I am overweight (250 lbs, probably a little less back when I owned the
> Vision) but the bike shop owner knew this when he sold me the bike. I am
one
> of those people who is in the "fat but fit" category. This means that when
I
> buy a piece of athletic equipment, it actually gets used.
>
> I had concerns about the Vision seat from day one but the shop told me
that
> it would not be a problem. I had dealt with them before so I trusted them.
> For the first year it wasn't a problem. The seat coming undone happened in
> year 2. I can only conclude that the only way that seat will work for
> heavier riders is if they don't actually ride much.
>
> Vision did finally send me a version of the seat that didn't depend on
> Velcro to stay on the frame but by that time I had already lost confidence
> in the bike and was looking to sell it.
>
> Jeff
I was 260 when I bought my Vision and had no problems with the seat
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 09:34:04
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>
> I have two Infinty recumbents, one being the all square tube. I don't ride
> them much anymore but I still think they are the best looking recumbents
> ever made. I first saw them in a Bike Nashbar catalog and immediately
> wanted one.
>
Mine was the square tube one as well. Hands down the most comfortable 2
wheel vehicle I ever rode. The recumbents that I owned after that (Vision
and Trek) were no where near as comfortable. I think it was the long wheel
base because the seat was nothing special. I should never have sold that
bike. Let me know if you ever decide to part with yours.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 10:41:56
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11en0i5n3bisb18@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> I have two Infinty recumbents, one being the all square tube. I don't
>> ride them much anymore but I still think they are the best looking
>> recumbents ever made. I first saw them in a Bike Nashbar catalog and
>> immediately wanted one.
>>
> Mine was the square tube one as well. Hands down the most comfortable 2
> wheel vehicle I ever rode. The recumbents that I owned after that (Vision
> and Trek) were no where near as comfortable. I think it was the long wheel
> base because the seat was nothing special. I should never have sold that
> bike. Let me know if you ever decide to part with yours.
The Infinity was the first recumbent I ever got after having ridden uprights
for 15 years. So of course I thought the Infinity was comfy too in
comparison. However, the Vision was by far and away the most comfortable
recumbent I have ever had. I had my Vision set up LWB, but I first got it
SWB. By and large I do not like the way SWB recumbents handle. I am a LWB
kind of guy.
You are right about the Infinity seat being nothing special. It needs lots
of foam to get comfort, but then all mesh seats need that.
Infinities were always rather rare. I only saw of few of them on my many
group bike tours that I used to do. The guys that had them would really beat
them up. But they were all true cycling fanatics and loved their Infinities.
The Trek was an interesting recumbent but always seemed to be plagued by
problems. I remember when that bike first came out how the recumbent
community was hoping that maybe recumbents would finally become mainstream.
It never happened and I don't believe it ever will. That is not so bad as I
like to think we recumbent cyclists are special. The only downside to it is
that recumbents remain expensive because of the small ket for them.
I will probably keep all my recumbents and my other bikes to the bitter end.
When I die my relatives are going to think I was a crazy man to have all
these bicycles cluttering up my house. I try to tell them that I am not
really crazy, just a bit eccentric. Even when I am not riding my bikes, I
like to just sit and look at them. I am known far and wide as the man who
loves bikes.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 09:32:06
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>
> Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's better
> off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It is what
> comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India, until
> recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as rails.
> Who wants to be a peon.
>
Can't do that Ed. I recently found out that I'm diabetic. The cost of not
losing weight is not just working harder on hills and having a less than
perfect appearance. I've already gone from 300 down to 250 but I really
should be under 200. Since I want to be riding for many more years the
weight loss isn't optional at this point.
Those fat Indians probably didn't eat a sugar rich American diet nor were
they interested in being in good shape for cycling.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 21:32:46
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:32:06 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote:
>
>"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's better
>> off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It is what
>> comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India, until
>> recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as rails.
>> Who wants to be a peon.
>>
>
>Can't do that Ed. I recently found out that I'm diabetic. The cost of not
>losing weight is not just working harder on hills and having a less than
>perfect appearance. I've already gone from 300 down to 250 but I really
>should be under 200. Since I want to be riding for many more years the
>weight loss isn't optional at this point.
>
>Those fat Indians probably didn't eat a sugar rich American diet nor were
>they interested in being in good shape for cycling.
>
>Jeff
>
Hi Jeff.
Congratulations on the weight you've already shed. Hope things work
for you in the long run.
Two years ago I tried the Atkins approach, and really should have
stayed with it. Just by eliminating all sugar and white flour from my
diet I shed 40 pounds in four months. I never was hungry, cause there
are a lot of foods you can eat in unlimited amounts, and I felt the
best I have in recent years. You do have to be vigilant, because even
a tiny amount of sugar (or bread) will cause an insulin imbalance &
trigger stronger food cravings, but after only 48-72 hours with
absolutely no sugar intake I noticed the change.
I mention it now because in the book there is reference to people who
have been able to get off insulin and maintain a healthy weight by
staying on a low carb regimen. I have met a couple of diabetics who
sere able to discontinue insulin use after adopting the Atkinsl
approach.
Hope I'm not butting in.
Indiana Mike
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2005 19:04:00
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:5srne1pgabruo5mltvchjocderc1ftk4fu@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:32:06 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote:
>
> I mention it now because in the book there is reference to people who
> have been able to get off insulin and maintain a healthy weight by
> staying on a low carb regimen. I have met a couple of diabetics who
> sere able to discontinue insulin use after adopting the Atkinsl
> approach.
>
Thanks for the advice. I am able to manage my diabetes with diet and
exercise alone.
As a diabetic I must eat carbs but in measured and controlled amounts. An
ultra-low carb diet such as Atkins would not be good for me. Also I have
been taught to count all carbs. Atkins lets you subtract fiber and other
low-impact carbs. My diabetes educator does not allow me to do that. What I
have learned about healthy eating for diabetic is that I should eat carbs
but they must be controlled and their impact on my blood sugar must be
monitored.
Thanks for the encouragement and advice.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2005 19:34:57
From: Pat
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
.
:
: As a diabetic I must eat carbs but in measured and controlled amounts. An
: ultra-low carb diet such as Atkins would not be good for me.
You are wrong about the Atkins diet being "ultra-low carb". Atkins only
starts off at 20 gm carbs per day. After 2 weeks, you start adding more and
more carbs until you get to the point where you start to gain weight. Then,
you cut back to your personal level. Nothing "ultra-low carb" about that.
Also I have
: been taught to count all carbs. Atkins lets you subtract fiber and other
: low-impact carbs. My diabetes educator does not allow me to do that. What
I
: have learned about healthy eating for diabetic is that I should eat carbs
: but they must be controlled and their impact on my blood sugar must be
: monitored.
: Jeff
The reason the Atkins diet subtract fiber is because Atkins is geared toward
eating low glycemic carbs. Dr. Atkins didn't even call it a "low carb" diet.
He called it a "controlled carb" way of eating. Not all carbs are alike.
Atkins was trying to keep people's insulin levels, well, level. Maybe
diabetics use the Atkins diet because diabetics try to eat low glycemic
carbs to avoid the sugar spikes of high glycemic carbs. Don't use the Atkins
diet if you wish, but, first, you have to actually know what the diet is,
not just what you speculate it is.
Pat in TX
:
:
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2005 21:34:45
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Pat,
I read several of the books and I have used the diet several times. I have
even written a ten page synopsis of the Atkins diet based on the books.
Don't let my casual conversation lead you to believe that I don't understand
it. However, according to my diabetes educator, FOR PURPOSES OF DIABETES
MANAGEMENT ONLY (which means for me), all carbs are alike. Essentially all
carbs are carbs and they must be controlled.
I am supposed to eat 120 gms of carbs per day which is way more than Atkins
recommends.
The fatal flaw in Atkin's plan is the assertion that you can eat as much as
you want as long as you don't over-eat carbs. This is simply not true. There
is no escaping the calorie balance equation. Prior to the proliferation of
low-carb foods, the result of going on a low-carb plan such as Atkins was
simply that people didn't eat as much. Since the expansion of low-carb
foods, however, a lot fewer people are finding success with Atkins.
Overeating is overeating regardless of what you over eat.
If you really want to follow this type of plan and want to arm yourself with
science (which Atkins is not), then I recommend "The Ketogenic Diet, A
Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner" by Lyle McDonald.
This book will give you the most up to date research on this type of dieting
without hype. It also focuses on how to use this type of diet for achieving
different objectives such as body building or weight loss.
The book is not a "program" such as Atkins but rather is a comprehensive
look at the type of diet that leads to diet induced ketosis.
Thanks for the input.
Jeff
"Pat" <Pat@newsnight.com > wrote in message
news:3l591cF1138lqU1@individual.net...
>
> .
> :
> : As a diabetic I must eat carbs but in measured and controlled amounts.
> An
> : ultra-low carb diet such as Atkins would not be good for me.
>
> You are wrong about the Atkins diet being "ultra-low carb". Atkins only
> starts off at 20 gm carbs per day. After 2 weeks, you start adding more
> and
> more carbs until you get to the point where you start to gain weight.
> Then,
> you cut back to your personal level. Nothing "ultra-low carb" about that.
>
> Also I have
> : been taught to count all carbs. Atkins lets you subtract fiber and other
> : low-impact carbs. My diabetes educator does not allow me to do that.
> What
> I
> : have learned about healthy eating for diabetic is that I should eat
> carbs
> : but they must be controlled and their impact on my blood sugar must be
> : monitored.
> : Jeff
>
> The reason the Atkins diet subtract fiber is because Atkins is geared
> toward
> eating low glycemic carbs. Dr. Atkins didn't even call it a "low carb"
> diet.
> He called it a "controlled carb" way of eating. Not all carbs are alike.
> Atkins was trying to keep people's insulin levels, well, level. Maybe
> diabetics use the Atkins diet because diabetics try to eat low glycemic
> carbs to avoid the sugar spikes of high glycemic carbs. Don't use the
> Atkins
> diet if you wish, but, first, you have to actually know what the diet is,
> not just what you speculate it is.
>
> Pat in TX
> :
> :
>
>
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Aug 2005 01:40:52
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:34:45 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote:
>Pat,
>
>I read several of the books and I have used the diet several times. I have
>even written a ten page synopsis of the Atkins diet based on the books.
>Don't let my casual conversation lead you to believe that I don't understand
>it. However, according to my diabetes educator, FOR PURPOSES OF DIABETES
>MANAGEMENT ONLY (which means for me), all carbs are alike. Essentially all
>carbs are carbs and they must be controlled.
>
>I am supposed to eat 120 gms of carbs per day which is way more than Atkins
>recommends.
>
>The fatal flaw in Atkin's plan is the assertion that you can eat as much as
>you want as long as you don't over-eat carbs. This is simply not true. There
>is no escaping the calorie balance equation. Prior to the proliferation of
>low-carb foods, the result of going on a low-carb plan such as Atkins was
>simply that people didn't eat as much. Since the expansion of low-carb
>foods, however, a lot fewer people are finding success with Atkins.
>Overeating is overeating regardless of what you over eat.
>
>If you really want to follow this type of plan and want to arm yourself with
>science (which Atkins is not), then I recommend "The Ketogenic Diet, A
>Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner" by Lyle McDonald.
>
>This book will give you the most up to date research on this type of dieting
>without hype. It also focuses on how to use this type of diet for achieving
>different objectives such as body building or weight loss.
>
>The book is not a "program" such as Atkins but rather is a comprehensive
>look at the type of diet that leads to diet induced ketosis.
>
>Thanks for the input.
>
>Jeff
Jeff you're still making me worry. This really doesn't look like the
writing of an IDIOT!.
How could you?
Indiana Mike
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Aug 2005 06:00:20
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:3avqe1p23e48qlpi5u16g9s451k5a7imdu@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:34:45 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote:
>
> Jeff you're still making me worry. This really doesn't look like the
> writing of an IDIOT!.
>
> How could you?
>
Sorry. I wasn't paying attention. Let me restate that last message.
All hail the gods of our godless liberal agenda. Praise be to Kerry and
Clinton and all right thinking lefties. May the fires of the non-existent
hell consume the evil Bush and his minions.
Better Mike?
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Aug 2005 08:47:38
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11ershpabkh1r56@news.supernews.com...
> "Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:3avqe1p23e48qlpi5u16g9s451k5a7imdu@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:34:45 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote:
>>
>> Jeff you're still making me worry. This really doesn't look like the
>> writing of an IDIOT!.
>>
>> How could you?
>>
>
> Sorry. I wasn't paying attention. Let me restate that last message.
>
> All hail the gods of our godless liberal agenda. Praise be to Kerry and
> Clinton and all right thinking lefties. May the fires of the non-existent
> hell consume the evil Bush and his minions.
Jim Hightower of Texas was on Iowa Public TV the other day. He is a
Progressive and a Populist. If the Dems had any brains, which they don't,
they would get behind a progressive and a populist agenda and maybe they
could start winning some elections once again.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 10:13:32
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11en0ef7la9q6b0@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's better
>> off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It is what
>> comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India, until
>> recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as rails.
>> Who wants to be a peon.
>>
>
> Can't do that Ed. I recently found out that I'm diabetic. The cost of not
> losing weight is not just working harder on hills and having a less than
> perfect appearance. I've already gone from 300 down to 250 but I really
> should be under 200. Since I want to be riding for many more years the
> weight loss isn't optional at this point.
Diabetes is the major complication that arises from being overweight. 200
would a good goal for you to shoot for. Losing weight is the hardest thing
in the world, especially for older people. Best of luck in your efforts.
> Those fat Indians probably didn't eat a sugar rich American diet nor were
> they interested in being in good shape for cycling.
Those fat Indians were following a Western style diet. The thin Indians were
following their traditional diets. As the world moves ever more and more to
the Western diet, we will see ever more and more fat people. Our evolution
has not designed us to eat sensibly, but rather to eat plentifully whenever
food is available. It is that way with all animals. It is feast when you
can, starve when you must.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 12:00:06
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:Ut2dnXnlsNW5BHbfRVn-2Q@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
> news:11en0ef7la9q6b0@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>> news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>>>
>>> Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's
>>> better off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It
>>> is what comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India,
>>> until recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as
>>> rails. Who wants to be a peon.
>>>
>>
>> Can't do that Ed. I recently found out that I'm diabetic. The cost of not
>> losing weight is not just working harder on hills and having a less than
>> perfect appearance. I've already gone from 300 down to 250 but I really
>> should be under 200. Since I want to be riding for many more years the
>> weight loss isn't optional at this point.
>
> Diabetes is the major complication that arises from being overweight. 200
> would a good goal for you to shoot for. Losing weight is the hardest thing
> in the world, especially for older people. Best of luck in your efforts.
>
I agree with everything that you've said (for once). Just because it is hard
doesn't mean that I shouldn't do it. I have made fighting diabetes one of
the major themes of the rest of my life. You'll learn more about this soon.
Thank you for your good wishes.
>> Those fat Indians probably didn't eat a sugar rich American diet nor were
>> they interested in being in good shape for cycling.
>
> Those fat Indians were following a Western style diet. The thin Indians
> were following their traditional diets. As the world moves ever more and
> more to the Western diet, we will see ever more and more fat people. Our
> evolution has not designed us to eat sensibly, but rather to eat
> plentifully whenever food is available. It is that way with all animals.
> It is feast when you can, starve when you must.
>
It is true that we are designed to eat when food is plentiful to avoid
starving. Since people in first world countries have ready access to calorie
dense food and labor saving conveniences, it is unlikely that this problem
is going to get better soon. Also since most of us don't suffer the
complications of obesity until after the age of reproduction, evolution is
not likely to have an impact either. Medical technology will probably
eventually allow us to eat like pigs and not have it be a health nighte
but right now we aren't even close. So I fight an uphill battle. But I'm a
triker. I can deal with hills.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 12:06:01
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11en8vk9j4eiu04@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:Ut2dnXnlsNW5BHbfRVn-2Q@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
>> news:11en0ef7la9q6b0@news.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>> news:bK2dnVAiuLKwbHffRVn-ow@prairiewave.com...
>>>>
>>>> Forget about losing weight. We Americans, like most of the world's
>>>> better off peoples, are destined to be over weight for all eternity. It
>>>> is what comes of having too much leisure and too much food. In India,
>>>> until recently, only the well to do were heavy. The peons were thin as
>>>> rails. Who wants to be a peon.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can't do that Ed. I recently found out that I'm diabetic. The cost of
>>> not losing weight is not just working harder on hills and having a less
>>> than perfect appearance. I've already gone from 300 down to 250 but I
>>> really should be under 200. Since I want to be riding for many more
>>> years the weight loss isn't optional at this point.
>>
>> Diabetes is the major complication that arises from being overweight. 200
>> would a good goal for you to shoot for. Losing weight is the hardest
>> thing in the world, especially for older people. Best of luck in your
>> efforts.
>>
>
> I agree with everything that you've said (for once). Just because it is
> hard doesn't mean that I shouldn't do it. I have made fighting diabetes
> one of the major themes of the rest of my life. You'll learn more about
> this soon. Thank you for your good wishes.
>
>>> Those fat Indians probably didn't eat a sugar rich American diet nor
>>> were they interested in being in good shape for cycling.
>>
>> Those fat Indians were following a Western style diet. The thin Indians
>> were following their traditional diets. As the world moves ever more and
>> more to the Western diet, we will see ever more and more fat people. Our
>> evolution has not designed us to eat sensibly, but rather to eat
>> plentifully whenever food is available. It is that way with all animals.
>> It is feast when you can, starve when you must.
>>
>
> It is true that we are designed to eat when food is plentiful to avoid
> starving. Since people in first world countries have ready access to
> calorie dense food and labor saving conveniences, it is unlikely that this
> problem is going to get better soon. Also since most of us don't suffer
> the complications of obesity until after the age of reproduction,
> evolution is not likely to have an impact either. Medical technology will
> probably eventually allow us to eat like pigs and not have it be a health
> nighte but right now we aren't even close. So I fight an uphill battle.
> But I'm a triker. I can deal with hills.
>
> Jeff
I note with pleasure that Jeff Grippe is now posting 100% correctly. It was
hard work but I have finally succeeded in my humble efforts on his behalf.
It will now be a pleasure for all on this group to read his posts and to
know full well what is being said by all parties to the conversation.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2005 19:00:08
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Re: My Posting Style and Eddie influence.
Ed, get over yourself please.
Here is your pridictable knee jerk reaction, however. I hope you enjoyed it.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 31 Jul 2005 18:34:11
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11eqlrtjc1omg4f@news.supernews.com...
> Re: My Posting Style and Eddie influence.
>
> Ed, get over yourself please.
>
> Here is your pridictable knee jerk reaction, however. I hope you enjoyed
> it.
>
> Jeff
Now Jeff is posting like a jackass again. It may be that he cannot escape
his natural proclivities no matter the instruction from his superiors.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 02:36:18
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 02:02:33 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
>
>"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:1kdge1pisuvpfe6500210hn7bggh6b6bvs@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:08:11 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
>> wrote:
>> <excellent post snipped>
>>>
>>>The worst spill I have ever had was on a recumbent (RANS V2).
<snip >
>
>The RANS V2 is a long wheel base much like the Tour Easy, except that it has
>a much higher crank. The Mueller Fairing may have prevented me from seeing
>the road crack as it lines up all wrong for good road viewing.
I thought about the V2 when I wsa deciding which bent to get. But I
haven't had the pleasure of riding any RANS product. The V2 intrigues
me, so does the V-Rex. If I ever get a second recumbent I think it
will be something in the nature of a V-Rex, Volae, or P-38.
Although those dual 26's are interesting as well.
Heck, I liked all the recumbents I test rode that first day. It would
be interesting to see how the different styles feel now that I have a
couple year's experience with the TE.
>
>When you fall on a LWB you will generally go down sideways and land on your
>hip and/or elbow. The seat edge took much of the force, but I also had a
>bruised hip and wondered at first if I had broken anything. I went down with
>the bike because it happened so fast I did not have time to think what to
>do. If I had thought, I might have put my leg out to brake the fall and been
>infinitely worse off as a result.
My earliest falls were at extremely low speed, I attribute them to the
learning curve. The falls I have taken after that initial learning
curve were all avoidable had I been more observant of surface
conditions.
>
>I do not like to have bike accidents and I will spend days after an accident
>analyzing what went wrong. As a result of my RANS V2 accident, I resolved to
>slow down and pay more attention to those longitudinal cracks in the road. I
>may get rid of the fairing too as it prevents me from seeing the road right
>ahead of me well.
I believe my TE is less forgiving than the old Schwinn Varsity, but
its comfort level and carrying capacity much more than make up for the
need to pay attention. Just like I know better than to try to ride the
Tour Easy no handed I am trying to remember to *pay attention*. And
unclip and slow down if the surface becomes gravel, sandy, rutted, or
otherwise compromised.
This weekend I will put the Lo-o-ong panniers back on the underseat
racks and load them up. I plan to make a self supported camping ride
from my home in Lafaeyette, Indiana to Mammoth Cave Kentucky and back.
If the miles go well I will have four days or so to tour the bluegrass
stae (and ancestral home) before heading back to the banks of the
Wabash. I need to think about conditioning myself over the next month
leading up to the trip, and I think the best way will be to load up to
touring weight while stepping up the daily/weekly milage. (and I'd
better put in some time riding your favourites--hills)
>
>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
Back atcha,
Indiana Mike
|
| | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 12:14:13
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:o94je1tfg8hoh17cg2ial2ugoip2mbp92c@4ax.com...
[...]
> This weekend I will put the Lo-o-ong panniers back on the underseat
> racks and load them up. I plan to make a self supported camping ride
> from my home in Lafaeyette, Indiana to Mammoth Cave Kentucky and back.
> If the miles go well I will have four days or so to tour the bluegrass
> stae (and ancestral home) before heading back to the banks of the
> Wabash. I need to think about conditioning myself over the next month
> leading up to the trip, and I think the best way will be to load up to
> touring weight while stepping up the daily/weekly milage. (and I'd
> better put in some time riding your favourites--hills)
Be on the look out for Larry Varney when you are in Kentucky. That is his
home stamping ground. He looks like Santa Claus, but he is cantankerous as
all get out. He will most likely be on his recumbent trike.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 19:36:47
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:14:13 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
>
>"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:o94je1tfg8hoh17cg2ial2ugoip2mbp92c@4ax.com...
>[...]
>> This weekend I will put the Lo-o-ong panniers back on the underseat
>> racks and load them up. I plan to make a self supported camping ride
>> from my home in Lafaeyette, Indiana to Mammoth Cave Kentucky and back.
>> If the miles go well I will have four days or so to tour the bluegrass
>> stae (and ancestral home) before heading back to the banks of the
>> Wabash. I need to think about conditioning myself over the next month
>> leading up to the trip, and I think the best way will be to load up to
>> touring weight while stepping up the daily/weekly milage. (and I'd
>> better put in some time riding your favourites--hills)
>
>Be on the look out for Larry Varney when you are in Kentucky. That is his
>home stamping ground. He looks like Santa Claus, but he is cantankerous as
>all get out. He will most likely be on his recumbent trike.
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
Ed lives considerably east of the area I'll be traversing. And the
relatives I plan on visiting are 70 miles or so west of the cave area.
I saw LV several times during the Hilly Hundred I rode two years ago.
He seemed plenty jolly, at least he had a giant smile each time I saw
him riding.
Indiana Mike
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 21:49:47
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:031le1peeh07c1m93tfma37h9undtku7tk@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:14:13 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
[...]
>>Be on the look out for Larry Varney when you are in Kentucky. That is his
>>home stamping ground. He looks like Santa Claus, but he is cantankerous as
>>all get out. He will most likely be on his recumbent trike.
[...]
> Ed (Larry) lives considerably east of the area I'll be traversing. And the
> relatives I plan on visiting are 70 miles or so west of the cave area.
>
> I saw LV several times during the Hilly Hundred I rode two years ago.
> He seemed plenty jolly, at least he had a giant smile each time I saw
> him riding.
Well, you would have to read his posts to ARBR to know what he is really
like. He has gravitated from ARBR to BROL where I think he is a writer for
that website. Larry and I never seemed to be able to agree on anything. And
then it gets nasty to boot as you might suspect.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 30 Jul 2005 21:49:40
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:49:47 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
>
>"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net> wrote
<snip >
>>
>> I saw LV several times during the Hilly Hundred I rode two years ago.
>> He seemed plenty jolly, at least he had a giant smile each time I saw
>> him riding.
>
>Well, you would have to read his posts to ARBR to know what he is really
>like. He has gravitated from ARBR to BROL where I think he is a writer for
>that website. Larry and I never seemed to be able to agree on anything. And
>then it gets nasty to boot as you might suspect.
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
Why do I find it hard to believe that a consersation between Jolly ol'
Larry & Mr. Ed could ever be less than totally pleasant and civil?
(ducking)
Indiana Mike
|
| | | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 11:41:38
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:o94je1tfg8hoh17cg2ial2ugoip2mbp92c@4ax.com...
[...]
Edward Dolan wrote:
>>The RANS V2 is a long wheel base much like the Tour Easy, except that it
>>has
>>a much higher crank. The Mueller Fairing may have prevented me from seeing
>>the road crack as it lines up all wrong for good road viewing.
>
> I thought about the V2 when I wsa deciding which bent to get. But I
> haven't had the pleasure of riding any RANS product. The V2 intrigues
> me, so does the V-Rex. If I ever get a second recumbent I think it
> will be something in the nature of a V-Rex, Volae, or P-38.
>
> Although those dual 26's are interesting as well.
>
> Heck, I liked all the recumbents I test rode that first day. It would
> be interesting to see how the different styles feel now that I have a
> couple year's experience with the TE.
All the bikes that you are presently thinking about have a high BB. This is
a critical difference when it comes to recumbents. Your TE has a low crank;
my V2 has a high crank. You sit on the V2 pretty much as you would sit on a
V-Rex and other SWB's. Your legs are at the level of your hip when pedaling.
This is good for aerodynamics, maybe not so good for physiology. It also
creates a more difficult handling condition overall. The major advantage of
a recumbent with a high crank is that you can get the seat laid back more,
thereby getting some weight off of your rear. On long tours this can be
important.
Before you get a high BB recumbent, make sure that you will not have foot
numbness from the high crank. You need to ride the bike continuously for
about an hour or so to make sure.
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 27 Jul 2005 20:28:02
From: Bruce Davis
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Many thanks to all who posted replies (especially to Ed Dolan the Great, who
makes this newsgroup quite entertaining despite what his detractors may
claim). You all have provided some valuable information, whether it be
specific tips on avoiding crashes and/or surviving crashes; or more general
information that is useful as well. I plan to continue to enjoy taking my
EZ Racer out for weekend jaunts, but will now be more cognizant of the
nuances of the bike (e.g., avoid unstable road surfaces at all costs [wet
leaves and sandy soil in particular]; and if I do fall, just keep my feet on
the pedals and let my hip-flesh take the brunt of it, rather than snapping
any more bones).
I will henceforth be a loyal reader of ARBR, though most likely more of a
lurker than a poster. So I just wanted to say thank you once again.
(p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me of
my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy of
Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't nearly
as fat as Ignatius.)
|
| | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 12:48:58
From: HHS
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
> (p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me
> of
> my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy of
> Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't
> nearly as fat as Ignatius.)
>
A Confederacy of Dunces is one of my favorites too. I once worked with a
fellow who was Ignatius J. Reilly.
Ed, while missing the k in several ways, does manage to use ARBR in the
way Ignatius used Big Chief writing tablets.
|
| | | | |
Date: 29 Jul 2005 13:23:34
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"HHS" <hhs@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:_-OdnZhfPZue8XffRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>
>> (p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me
>> of
>> my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy
>> of Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't
>> nearly as fat as Ignatius.)
>>
>
> A Confederacy of Dunces is one of my favorites too. I once worked with a
> fellow who was Ignatius J. Reilly.
>
> Ed, while missing the k in several ways, does manage to use ARBR in the
> way Ignatius used Big Chief writing tablets.
Jeez, just when I thought that ARBR was nothing if not a Confederacy of
Dunces, I find that there are a few intellectuals lurking about the
premises. I will have to watch myself as we intellectuals are notorious back
stabbers riven with jealousy and spite.
By the way, I like big writing tablets too.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2005 03:24:42
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:XNOdnTfOG4wHu3XfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
[...]
> (p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me
> of my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy
> of Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't
> nearly as fat as Ignatius.)
"A green hunting cap squeezed the top of the fleshy balloon of a head. The
green earflaps, full of large ears and uncut hair and the fine bristles that
grew in the ears themselves, stuck out on either side like turn signals
indicating two directions at once. Full, pursed lips protruded beneath the
bushy black moustache and, at their corners, sank into little folds filled
with disapproval and potato chip crumbs. In the shadow under the green visor
of the cap Ignatius J. Reilly's supercilious blue and yellow eyes looked
down upon the other people waiting under the clock at the D.H. Holmes
department store, studying the crowd of people for signs of bad taste in
dress. Several of the outfits, Ignatius noticed, were new enough and
expensive enough to be properly considered offenses against taste and
decency. Possession of anything new or expensive only reflected a person's
lack of theology and geometry; it could even cast doubts upon one's soul."
--from A Confederacy of Dunces
I vaguely remember reading that book many years ago, but I had forgotten
about it. I do remember there were several episodes in that book that I
found uproariously funny. No one else on this group will get your reference
however. John Kennedy Toole was a mysterious person, did not live long and
was never well known. I do not mind in the least being compared to Ignatius
J. Reilly. We are kindred spirits in many ways (but not all ways). I have
always greatly admired those individuals who can stand outside of society,
even though I can't really do that myself. I only pretend to do it.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Jul 2005 20:59:00
From: Mark Leuck
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:XNOdnTfOG4wHu3XfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
> (p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me
of
> my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy of
> Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't
nearly
> as fat as Ignatius.)
Ed reminds me of the Salad Fingers cartoon character
(to anyone who does know who that is do a Google lookup)
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2005 03:37:54
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"k Leuck" <m..leuck@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:rvOdncyCEInJoXXfRVn-2w@comcast.com...
>
> "Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:XNOdnTfOG4wHu3XfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>
>> (p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me
> of
>> my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy
>> of
>> Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't
> nearly
>> as fat as Ignatius.)
>
> Ed reminds me of the Salad Fingers cartoon character
>
>
>
> (to anyone who does know who that is do a Google lookup)
k Leuck is a guy who has way too much time on his hands. Salad Fingers
may or may not be a great cartoon figure, but who has time for this kind of
mindlessness. What I would really like to know at this point is the age of
k Leuck?
That k finds this cartoon character worth looking at tells us everything
about him and nothing about me. But isn't that always the way it is when you
recommend something to someone else.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2005 01:27:51
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:28:02 -0400, "Bruce Davis"
<brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote:
>Many thanks to all who posted replies (especially to Ed Dolan the Great, who
>makes this newsgroup quite entertaining despite what his detractors may
>claim). You all have provided some valuable information, whether it be
>specific tips on avoiding crashes and/or surviving crashes; or more general
>information that is useful as well. I plan to continue to enjoy taking my
>EZ Racer out for weekend jaunts, but will now be more cognizant of the
>nuances of the bike (e.g., avoid unstable road surfaces at all costs [wet
>leaves and sandy soil in particular]; and if I do fall, just keep my feet on
>the pedals and let my hip-flesh take the brunt of it, rather than snapping
>any more bones).
>
>I will henceforth be a loyal reader of ARBR, though most likely more of a
>lurker than a poster. So I just wanted to say thank you once again.
Great to have you on board, Bruce. Please do speak up from time to
time and let us know how you are enjoying your recumbent adventure.
Indiana Mike
>
>(p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me of
>my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy of
>Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't nearly
>as fat as Ignatius.)
>
Well, maybe his head might be as fat, since it must house his ego.
Don't count me too solidly among Ed's detractors. Even though he has
hurled insults my way (I'm a liberal, PC squared trewp) I too often
find him entertaining. And as Ed sees himself more a gadfly than a
troll to the group I occasionally play devil's advocate and question
some of his inconsistancies, especially when they become generally
offensive to certain groups or nationalities. I guess I think of Ed as
more an Ogre, he lives under any bridge in the area and can be
unsettling to those who don't know him.
Ed's post to you today was the mnost on-topic thing I believe I've
ever seen him deliver. If I didn't know better I would think he was
mellowing out a little. But I'll never make Santa's mistake. I've seen
a black rainbow.I trwholly know better.
PS-I can think of one poster who will enjoy the 'Confederacy of
Dunces' reference particularly well.
|
| | | | |
Date: 28 Jul 2005 02:25:49
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:1ubge11l7reeuokd8qfg7ek5tgrm4irvov@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:28:02 -0400, "Bruce Davis"
> <brucecdavis@comcast.net> wrote:
[...]
>>(p.s. I think the reason I find Ed so entertaining is that he reminds me
>>of
>>my favorite fictional character -- Ignatius J. Reilly of "A Confederacy of
>>Dunces." I hope Ed doesn't take offense at that -- I'm sure Ed isn't
>>nearly
>>as fat as Ignatius.)
The only cartoon character I keep up with is Garfield. I wonder if that darn
cat is in anyway influencing me? I also have 8 cats of my own, yet I am not
really a cat fancier. But I do prefer cats to dogs because they are less
trouble. All my cats came to me as strays. They must recognize a sucker when
they see one.
> Well, maybe his head might be as fat, since it must house his ego.
>
> Don't count me too solidly among Ed's detractors. Even though he has
> hurled insults my way (I'm a liberal, PC squared trewp) I too often
> find him entertaining. And as Ed sees himself more a gadfly than a
> troll to the group I occasionally play devil's advocate and question
> some of his inconsistancies, especially when they become generally
> offensive to certain groups or nationalities. I guess I think of Ed as
> more an Ogre, he lives under any bridge in the area and can be
> unsettling to those who don't know him.
I do think of myself as a gadfly. A deadly serious person would never bother
to do what I do. When you come to ARBR and have noted the on-topic posts,
then you are ready for a little levity from me. Why should we all be bored
to death just because some few find bike computer calibrations interesting.
God preserve us all from the scientific and engineering types. Number
crunchers are not even human. Anyone miss Tom Sherman with his eternal
trivial facts and figures?
> Ed's post to you today was the mnost on-topic thing I believe I've
> ever seen him deliver. If I didn't know better I would think he was
> mellowing out a little. But I'll never make Santa's mistake. I've seen
> a black rainbow.I trwholly know better.
Some on this group think I do not even have any recumbents since I seldom
post anything on-topic. I have surely got too many. No one will come to my
house anymore for fear of tripping over them.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2005 13:26:09
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote
> [stability]
As others have pointed out, a lighter touch on the
handlebars may improve sense of stability.
> My question relates to whether you think that recumbents are
> any more prone to spills than a regular bike is.
Perhaps. The skills needed to avoid falls may be
different on a given recumbent than on others. Three
wheels may help... %^)
Lots of falls in TdF, though, and no recumbents
there...
> 1. Are recumbents generally less stable than regular bikes
> (more prone to crashes), or does it just take more
> experience to get the "hang of it"?
Stability, per se, may not be the issue. The accidents
you describe seem to have more to do with traction loss.
Lower center of gravity may mean less time to react.
Heel strike can be a problem on some designs.
Front/back weigh distribution also may contribute...
> 2. Are there precautions that must be taken with
> recumbents so that a.) one does not take a spill;
Surface awareness. In more than 9,000 miles of
recumbent riding, I haven't sustained any major
injuries, but have had significant bruises and road
rash on three occasions . Surface traction loss
contributed all three of these and most of the
several other minor falls. I've gone down on both
roads and on sand/gravel trails.
In the last fall on my Tour Easy, I had to take
evasive action (braking) on a wet street when a
car made an illegal turn in front of me. My
speed and line where just fine until I hit the
brakes.
Now, I watch for surface changes and am more
conservative in cornering. I watch even more
for drivers doing stupid things particularly when
the road is wet.
> and b.) if one does take a spill, is there a certain
> way to fall to lessen the chance of serious injury?
In the two major falls on my Tour Easy, my feet stayed
on the pedals: Power Grips the first time, clipless, the
second. My hands stayed on the handlebars. In both
cases I ended up with road rash on my hip and in the
first case, on my shoulder as well.
My most recent minor fall, a week ago, was the first
on my Volae. IT was most certainly pilot error,
misjudging a turn. But the only bruise (minor) from
that fall was my ego. I did fall in an awkward
position with the bike on top of me and had to
struggle to get up.
I keep riding and I expect to fall again. I went down
once when I put my foot down, only to find small
gravel on pavement can function almost like ball
bearings. Not too many observers, luckily.
Jon Meinecke
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2005 16:38:28
From: Samuel Burkeen
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Here is my two scents on this. I own three bikes, a lwb Bentech, a swb
Bentech, and a Rans Tailwind. The only bike of the three I have never gone
down on is the swb Bentech. The bike most prone to an accident is the
Tailwind, and it happens just as you describe. Both the Tailwind and the
lwb Bentech are prone to losing traction on the front wheel in adverse
conditions. The swb Bentech is really closer to what you would experience
on an upright bike. So just in terms of being accident prone, why don't I
go back to an upright?. Simple, it is the type of accident, plus the other
ergonomic features of a recumbent. I am 58 and the last thing I want to do
is go over the handlebars. You had a serious accident involving your ankle;
what if it had been your head, collar bone, or spine? My accidents hurt
like hell, and involve loosing skin. The skin grows back, and I get a
little ster riding the bike the next time around.
It is hard to generalize about recumbents and accidents, other than they
rarely involve going over the handlebars. But you can loose skin, damage
ankles, legs, etc. It is all a tradeoff - take your pick - all bikes are
subject to accidents.
"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:VJOdnf2o57aaj3nfRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
>I just discovered this Newsgroup, and my newsreader only downloads the July
>posts, so I apologize if this has already been a topic of discussion in the
>recent past.
>
> My question relates to whether you think that recumbents are any more
> prone to spills than a regular bike is. Here's the genesis of my question:
>
> I bought an EZ Racer Tour Easy in September 2004. I am 44 years old, and
> have been a recreational cyclist for a number of years. I was never one of
> those super-serious bikers in the multicolored spandex shirts and
> super-speedy racing bikes. I simply rode a Trek hybrid on the occasional
> weekend on bike paths. But I found cycling on a regular bike to be painful
> after about ten miles -- my back and butt would be sore, and my weiner
> would be numb after a ride. So when I first found out about recumbents,
> they sounded like they'd be just what the doctor ordered.
>
> I bought my EZ Racer last September, and for my inaugural ride I took it
> out on a paved trail in local state park. Well, within five minutes of my
> first-ever ride, I broke my ankle. I was coming down a slight slope,
> perhaps going a little too fast for a novice, and came upon some wet
> leaves on the trail. The bike started sliding, I braked, and it slid out
> from under me. When I put my left foot down to the ground, I rolled over
> and onto the ground. I ended up with my left foot pointing 90 degrees to
> the right. I lay on the trail for about fifteen minutes before some hikers
> discovered me, and went and found a park ranger, who called an ambulance.
> I was hauled off to the hospital. I had to have my ankle sliced open like
> a fish's belly, and a plate was screwed into my badly broken bones with
> about nine screws. I spent the next six months recovering -- two months in
> a cast, a month with a removable walking-cast, two months in physical
> therapy, etc.
>
> Well, finally this spring I felt that my ankle was recovered enough to
> give it another shot. I've taken my EZ Racer out about four times in the
> past few months, and must say that I really enjoy it. But at the same
> time, I find it somewhat unstable. I thought maybe it would take time to
> get the hang of it, and then I'd be tooling around with ease. But I find
> that even after a number of rides of long length, the bike seems a bit
> wobbly at times and difficult to control. For example, if I take one hand
> off the handlebars to take a sip of water, it seems like I am risking
> disaster. The bike is only stable with two hands firmly gripping the
> handlebars. Contrast this with a standard bike, on which it is fairly easy
> to ride with no hands, let alone one hand (on the recumbent, the old
> saying "Look Ma, no teeth!" really seems to apply.). And when someone
> passes me from behind, and I want to give them ample room to get by, I
> find it somewhat difficult to keep the bike in a perfectly straight line,
> and worry that I'll suddenly veer to the left and crash into the passer.
>
> And now, just yesterday, I had another spill. I was on the Schuylkill
> Trail, which is a paved path between Valley Forge and Philadelphia. I was
> having a great ride, averaging about 16 MPH, and generally enjoying life.
> The paved portion of the trail is about 13 miles from Valley Forge to
> where it hits Manayunk (a Philadelphia neighborhood famous for the
> "Manayunk Wall" in the annual USPro bike race). When the trail hits
> Manayunk, there is an unpaved portion of about a half-mile between the end
> of the trail and the streets of Manayunk. I had ridden this unpaved area
> numerous times on my Trek hybrid in years past, so I thought I'd give it a
> go with my 'bent. I thought I might stop at a Manayunk brew-pub for a pint
> before heading back to Valley Forge (I don't advocate drinking and riding,
> but I figured a single pint wouldn't whack me out.) Anyway, I was doing
> well on the packed dirt, when suddenly in front of me was a very sandy
> portion of trail, maybe three feet long. I figured if I just kept my front
> wheel straight, I'd plow right through the sandy soil, and continue on my
> way. But as soon as my front wheel hit the sandy area, the wheel suddently
> slid, and I went down hard on my right leg. I jumped up quickly to make
> sure I hadn't broken anything, and luckily I had not. But I did have a
> large red scrape all the way from my knee to my ankle. Despite a moderate
> amount of pain, I was very relieved that there were no serious injuries,
> and that I wouldn't be spending the next three months on crutches. I
> decided to forego the brew-pub, and headed back to Valley Forge.
> All-in-all, I had had a great day, and very much enjoyed the 26-mile ride.
> But my spill at the halfway k got me worried again about whether there
> is something inherently dangerous about this bike.
>
> So my questions are:
> 1. Are recumbents generally less stable than regular bikes (more prone to
> crashes), or does it just take more experience to get the "hang of it"?
> 2. Are there precautions that must be taken with recumbents so that a.)
> one does not take a spill; and b.) if one does take a spill, is there a
> certain way to fall to lessen the chance of serious injury?
>
> The bottom line is that I love my recumbent, have no buyer's remorse, and
> will continue to ride it; but I'm just curious about whether anyone out
> there has any suggestions or comments that will put my mind at ease, so
> that I can just enjoy my rides without constantly worrying that I'm going
> to end up in the hospital again.
>
> (By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
> to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
> style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
> "Dolan, you're a genius!")
>
> --Bruce Davis
>
|
| | |
Date: 25 Jul 2005 19:41:17
From: Bill Patterson
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Samuel Burkeen wrote:
> Here is my two scents on this. I own three bikes, a lwb Bentech, a swb
> Bentech, and a Rans Tailwind. The only bike of the three I have never gone
> down on is the swb Bentech. The bike most prone to an accident is the
My surmise is that the lwb needs larger control inputs which cause the
front end to slip earlier than the swb. I also believe that it's easier
to ride a swb slower so some trails are better on the swb.
--
Order Lords of the Chainring
http://www.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/lords.html
Or use pay pal
Reply to wm.patterson@earthlink.net
wpatters@calpoly.edu
william.patterson@1962.usna.com
|
| |
Date: 25 Jul 2005 09:26:03
From: Dex
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:11:11 -0400, "Bruce Davis"
<brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote:
>I just discovered this Newsgroup, and my newsreader only downloads the July
>posts, so I apologize if this has already been a topic of discussion in the
>recent past.
>
>My question relates to whether you think that recumbents are any more prone
>to spills than a regular bike is. Here's the genesis of my question:
>
>I bought an EZ Racer Tour Easy in September 2004. I am 44 years old, and
>have been a recreational cyclist for a number of years. I was never one of
>those super-serious bikers in the multicolored spandex shirts and
>super-speedy racing bikes. I simply rode a Trek hybrid on the occasional
>weekend on bike paths. But I found cycling on a regular bike to be painful
>after about ten miles -- my back and butt would be sore, and my weiner would
>be numb after a ride. So when I first found out about recumbents, they
>sounded like they'd be just what the doctor ordered.
>
>I bought my EZ Racer last September, and for my inaugural ride I took it out
>on a paved trail in local state park. Well, within five minutes of my
>first-ever ride, I broke my ankle. I was coming down a slight slope, perhaps
>going a little too fast for a novice, and came upon some wet leaves on the
>trail. The bike started sliding, I braked, and it slid out from under me.
>When I put my left foot down to the ground, I rolled over and onto the
>ground. I ended up with my left foot pointing 90 degrees to the right. I lay
>on the trail for about fifteen minutes before some hikers discovered me, and
>went and found a park ranger, who called an ambulance. I was hauled off to
>the hospital. I had to have my ankle sliced open like a fish's belly, and a
>plate was screwed into my badly broken bones with about nine screws. I spent
>the next six months recovering -- two months in a cast, a month with a
>removable walking-cast, two months in physical therapy, etc.
>
>Well, finally this spring I felt that my ankle was recovered enough to give
>it another shot. I've taken my EZ Racer out about four times in the past few
>months, and must say that I really enjoy it. But at the same time, I find it
>somewhat unstable. I thought maybe it would take time to get the hang of it,
>and then I'd be tooling around with ease. But I find that even after a
>number of rides of long length, the bike seems a bit wobbly at times and
>difficult to control. For example, if I take one hand off the handlebars to
>take a sip of water, it seems like I am risking disaster. The bike is only
>stable with two hands firmly gripping the handlebars. Contrast this with a
>standard bike, on which it is fairly easy to ride with no hands, let alone
>one hand (on the recumbent, the old saying "Look Ma, no teeth!" really seems
>to apply.). And when someone passes me from behind, and I want to give them
>ample room to get by, I find it somewhat difficult to keep the bike in a
>perfectly straight line, and worry that I'll suddenly veer to the left and
>crash into the passer.
>
>And now, just yesterday, I had another spill. I was on the Schuylkill Trail,
>which is a paved path between Valley Forge and Philadelphia. I was having a
>great ride, averaging about 16 MPH, and generally enjoying life. The paved
>portion of the trail is about 13 miles from Valley Forge to where it hits
>Manayunk (a Philadelphia neighborhood famous for the "Manayunk Wall" in the
>annual USPro bike race). When the trail hits Manayunk, there is an unpaved
>portion of about a half-mile between the end of the trail and the streets of
>Manayunk. I had ridden this unpaved area numerous times on my Trek hybrid in
>years past, so I thought I'd give it a go with my 'bent. I thought I might
>stop at a Manayunk brew-pub for a pint before heading back to Valley Forge
>(I don't advocate drinking and riding, but I figured a single pint wouldn't
>whack me out.) Anyway, I was doing well on the packed dirt, when suddenly in
>front of me was a very sandy portion of trail, maybe three feet long. I
>figured if I just kept my front wheel straight, I'd plow right through the
>sandy soil, and continue on my way. But as soon as my front wheel hit the
>sandy area, the wheel suddently slid, and I went down hard on my right leg.
>I jumped up quickly to make sure I hadn't broken anything, and luckily I had
>not. But I did have a large red scrape all the way from my knee to my ankle.
>Despite a moderate amount of pain, I was very relieved that there were no
>serious injuries, and that I wouldn't be spending the next three months on
>crutches. I decided to forego the brew-pub, and headed back to Valley Forge.
>All-in-all, I had had a great day, and very much enjoyed the 26-mile ride.
>But my spill at the halfway k got me worried again about whether there is
>something inherently dangerous about this bike.
>
>So my questions are:
>1. Are recumbents generally less stable than regular bikes (more prone to
>crashes), or does it just take more experience to get the "hang of it"?
>2. Are there precautions that must be taken with recumbents so that a.) one
>does not take a spill; and b.) if one does take a spill, is there a certain
>way to fall to lessen the chance of serious injury?
>
>The bottom line is that I love my recumbent, have no buyer's remorse, and
>will continue to ride it; but I'm just curious about whether anyone out
>there has any suggestions or comments that will put my mind at ease, so that
>I can just enjoy my rides without constantly worrying that I'm going to end
>up in the hospital again.
>
>(By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
>to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
>style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
>"Dolan, you're a genius!")
>
>--Bruce Davis
>
I ride a SWB Vision with USS, and have crashed a couple times. Both
times it was because my foot came off the pedal and threw my balace
way off. I am an older (69) rider and enjoy the Vision very much. My
wife and I also have a Rans Screamer tandem that we like too. I think
the problem with stability is related to the fact that weight shifts
on a recumbent just don't give the same results as on an upright bike
and you have to get used to the fact that steering has more effect on
turning and stability than weight shifts.
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2005 23:01:13
From: Joshua Goldberg
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
well cannot argue with you on E.Dolan being a Genius and he is our resident
Pit Bull who will gladly bite the ass off anyone who invades our group from
Chicago.
My thinking is the Tour Easy is not the best choice of bent to go from a
wedgie to. A Tour Easy is a LWB and you are riding on Trails (albeit paved),
but trails tend to wind and weave and have rough patches, sand, gravel etc.
to break up the monotony for riders with MTBs who love a mixed road
surface----why I'll never know, re: well paved is always better for a bent.
A LWB will not take sudden direction changes with ease.
I'd go with a CLWB till you get more riding experience and while you still
can ride---busted ankle--Yuck/
"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:VJOdnf2o57aaj3nfRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
>I just discovered this Newsgroup, and my newsreader only downloads the July
>posts, so I apologize if this has already been a topic of discussion in the
>recent past.
>
> My question relates to whether you think that recumbents are any more
> prone to spills than a regular bike is. Here's the genesis of my question:
>
> I bought an EZ Racer Tour Easy in September 2004. I am 44 years old, and
> have been a recreational cyclist for a number of years. I was never one of
> those super-serious bikers in the multicolored spandex shirts and
> super-speedy racing bikes. I simply rode a Trek hybrid on the occasional
> weekend on bike paths. But I found cycling on a regular bike to be painful
> after about ten miles -- my back and butt would be sore, and my weiner
> would be numb after a ride. So when I first found out about recumbents,
> they sounded like they'd be just what the doctor ordered.
>
> I bought my EZ Racer last September, and for my inaugural ride I took it
> out on a paved trail in local state park. Well, within five minutes of my
> first-ever ride, I broke my ankle. I was coming down a slight slope,
> perhaps going a little too fast for a novice, and came upon some wet
> leaves on the trail. The bike started sliding, I braked, and it slid out
> from under me. When I put my left foot down to the ground, I rolled over
> and onto the ground. I ended up with my left foot pointing 90 degrees to
> the right. I lay on the trail for about fifteen minutes before some hikers
> discovered me, and went and found a park ranger, who called an ambulance.
> I was hauled off to the hospital. I had to have my ankle sliced open like
> a fish's belly, and a plate was screwed into my badly broken bones with
> about nine screws. I spent the next six months recovering -- two months in
> a cast, a month with a removable walking-cast, two months in physical
> therapy, etc.
>
> Well, finally this spring I felt that my ankle was recovered enough to
> give it another shot. I've taken my EZ Racer out about four times in the
> past few months, and must say that I really enjoy it. But at the same
> time, I find it somewhat unstable. I thought maybe it would take time to
> get the hang of it, and then I'd be tooling around with ease. But I find
> that even after a number of rides of long length, the bike seems a bit
> wobbly at times and difficult to control. For example, if I take one hand
> off the handlebars to take a sip of water, it seems like I am risking
> disaster. The bike is only stable with two hands firmly gripping the
> handlebars. Contrast this with a standard bike, on which it is fairly easy
> to ride with no hands, let alone one hand (on the recumbent, the old
> saying "Look Ma, no teeth!" really seems to apply.). And when someone
> passes me from behind, and I want to give them ample room to get by, I
> find it somewhat difficult to keep the bike in a perfectly straight line,
> and worry that I'll suddenly veer to the left and crash into the passer.
>
> And now, just yesterday, I had another spill. I was on the Schuylkill
> Trail, which is a paved path between Valley Forge and Philadelphia. I was
> having a great ride, averaging about 16 MPH, and generally enjoying life.
> The paved portion of the trail is about 13 miles from Valley Forge to
> where it hits Manayunk (a Philadelphia neighborhood famous for the
> "Manayunk Wall" in the annual USPro bike race). When the trail hits
> Manayunk, there is an unpaved portion of about a half-mile between the end
> of the trail and the streets of Manayunk. I had ridden this unpaved area
> numerous times on my Trek hybrid in years past, so I thought I'd give it a
> go with my 'bent. I thought I might stop at a Manayunk brew-pub for a pint
> before heading back to Valley Forge (I don't advocate drinking and riding,
> but I figured a single pint wouldn't whack me out.) Anyway, I was doing
> well on the packed dirt, when suddenly in front of me was a very sandy
> portion of trail, maybe three feet long. I figured if I just kept my front
> wheel straight, I'd plow right through the sandy soil, and continue on my
> way. But as soon as my front wheel hit the sandy area, the wheel suddently
> slid, and I went down hard on my right leg. I jumped up quickly to make
> sure I hadn't broken anything, and luckily I had not. But I did have a
> large red scrape all the way from my knee to my ankle. Despite a moderate
> amount of pain, I was very relieved that there were no serious injuries,
> and that I wouldn't be spending the next three months on crutches. I
> decided to forego the brew-pub, and headed back to Valley Forge.
> All-in-all, I had had a great day, and very much enjoyed the 26-mile ride.
> But my spill at the halfway k got me worried again about whether there
> is something inherently dangerous about this bike.
>
> So my questions are:
> 1. Are recumbents generally less stable than regular bikes (more prone to
> crashes), or does it just take more experience to get the "hang of it"?
> 2. Are there precautions that must be taken with recumbents so that a.)
> one does not take a spill; and b.) if one does take a spill, is there a
> certain way to fall to lessen the chance of serious injury?
>
> The bottom line is that I love my recumbent, have no buyer's remorse, and
> will continue to ride it; but I'm just curious about whether anyone out
> there has any suggestions or comments that will put my mind at ease, so
> that I can just enjoy my rides without constantly worrying that I'm going
> to end up in the hospital again.
>
> (By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
> to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
> style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
> "Dolan, you're a genius!")
>
> --Bruce Davis
>
|
| | |
Date: 26 Jul 2005 23:46:38
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
"Joshua Goldberg" <evsolutions@rogers.com > wrote in message
news:WuKdndJPm7dlyHnfRVn-ug@rogers.com...
> well cannot argue with you on E.Dolan being a Genius and he is our
> resident Pit Bull who will gladly bite the ass off anyone who invades our
> group from Chicago.
[...]
Joshua is top posting just to irritate me. You still in Toronto?
The Chicago group (Monkey Islanders) were vulgar and disgusting, but far
worse than that was the fact that one or more of them were criminal trolls.
I simply can't stand criminality and I will have nothing to do with those
types. I do like the good fight, but all is NOT fair in love and war. Far
from it. There are rules of civilized behavior which we all have to observe
for the good of everyone.
There is no greater upholder of the laws than yours truly. If I am a troll
(highly debatable), I am a good, law abiding troll whose only interest is
the welfare of this newsgroup. I do not want everyone here to die of
boredom, that is the main thing.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 24 Jul 2005 19:34:45
From: mort
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
|
Hi Bruce,
I ride a Gold Rush frequently on the Schuykill river trail, but I avoid
that section along the river. There is an alternative route that goes
through the streets of Manayunk, which is a little hillier but has no
unpaved stretches. Regarding scrubbing out the front wheel, you have
to be extremely careful in any non-paved situation. I have also dumped
my Gold Rush on gravel and sand. The good thing about the bike is that
you don't fall as far as on an upright. As you discovered, taking your
feet off the pedals in a fall is a good way to break your leg. You
didn't mention whether you ride clipped to the pedals or not, but I
would recommend that you get some cleats, and if you do by chance find
yourself going over, just hang on the bars, leave your feet where they
are, and let the side of the seat and your hip take the impact. I have
survived two 25mph+ crashes without serious injury this way. And as
others have said, a light touch makes the bike much more controllable.
I do think that the Tour Easy and Gold Rush are a little twitchier than
uprights, but at speed they are extremely stable. The more you ride
the better it will get. Best of luck to you,
Mort
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Date: 25 Jul 2005 01:57:53
From: Indiana Mike
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:11:11 -0400, "Bruce Davis"
<brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote:
>I just discovered this Newsgroup, and my newsreader only downloads the July
>posts, so I apologize if this has already been a topic of discussion in the
>recent past.
>
>My question relates to whether you think that recumbents are any more prone
>to spills than a regular bike is. Here's the genesis of my question:
>
>I bought an EZ Racer Tour Easy in September 2004. I am 44 years old, and
>have been a recreational cyclist for a number of years. I was never one of
>those super-serious bikers in the multicolored spandex shirts and
>super-speedy racing bikes. I simply rode a Trek hybrid on the occasional
>weekend on bike paths. But I found cycling on a regular bike to be painful
>after about ten miles -- my back and butt would be sore, and my weiner would
>be numb after a ride. So when I first found out about recumbents, they
>sounded like they'd be just what the doctor ordered.
Sounds a lot like my story, except I rode a Schwinn Varsity.
>
>I bought my EZ Racer last September, and for my inaugural ride I took it out
>on a paved trail in local state park. Well, within five minutes of my
>first-ever ride, I broke my ankle. I was coming down a slight slope, perhaps
>going a little too fast for a novice, and came upon some wet leaves on the
>trail. The bike started sliding, I braked, and it slid out from under me.
>When I put my left foot down to the ground, I rolled over and onto the
>ground. I ended up with my left foot pointing 90 degrees to the right
I think putting your foot down was a major mistake. I have done the
same thing with happier results, but in hindsight realized that
stomping on pavement at speeds approaching 30 is asking for disaster.
> I lay
>on the trail for about fifteen minutes before some hikers discovered me, and
>went and found a park ranger, who called an ambulance. I was hauled off to
>the hospital. I had to have my ankle sliced open like a fish's belly, and a
>plate was screwed into my badly broken bones with about nine screws. I spent
>the next six months recovering -- two months in a cast, a month with a
>removable walking-cast, two months in physical therapy, etc.
>
>Well, finally this spring I felt that my ankle was recovered enough to give
>it another shot. I've taken my EZ Racer out about four times in the past few
>months, and must say that I really enjoy it. But at the same time, I find it
>somewhat unstable. I thought maybe it would take time to get the hang of it,
>and then I'd be tooling around with ease. But I find that even after a
>number of rides of long length, the bike seems a bit wobbly at times and
>difficult to control. For example, if I take one hand off the handlebars to
>take a sip of water, it seems like I am risking disaster. The bike is only
>stable with two hands firmly gripping the handlebars. Contrast this with a
>standard bike, on which it is fairly easy to ride with no hands, let alone
>one hand (on the recumbent, the old saying "Look Ma, no teeth!" really seems
>to apply.). And when someone passes me from behind, and I want to give them
>ample room to get by, I find it somewhat difficult to keep the bike in a
>perfectly straight line, and worry that I'll suddenly veer to the left and
>crash into the passer.
Riding my Tour Easy I actually find the 'death grip' approach to cause
the wobble. All is good when I seat the small of my back right back
into the mesh and relax my shoulders. As for the grips, the lighter
touch the better. Mostly i ride with just th;u;mb & forefinger resting
around the grip lightly, with the other fingers lightly on the brake
levers.
>
>And now, just yesterday, I had another spill.
<snip >
> I was doing well on the packed dirt, when suddenly in
>front of me was a very sandy portion of trail, maybe three feet long. I
>figured if I just kept my front wheel straight, I'd plow right through the
>sandy soil, and continue on my way. But as soon as my front wheel hit the
>sandy area, the wheel suddently slid, and I went down hard on my right leg.
>I jumped up quickly to make sure I hadn't broken anything, and luckily I had
>not. But I did have a large red scrape all the way from my knee to my ankle.
>Despite a moderate amount of pain, I was very relieved that there were no
>serious injuries, and that I wouldn't be spending the next three months on
>crutches. I decided to forego the brew-pub, and headed back to Valley Forge.
>All-in-all, I had had a great day, and very much enjoyed the 26-mile ride.
>But my spill at the halfway k got me worried again about whether there is
>something inherently dangerous about this bike.
>
>So my questions are:
>1. Are recumbents generally less stable than regular bikes (more prone to
>crashes), or does it just take more experience to get the "hang of it"?
I think my Tour Easy is much more stable at speed than my old upright,
but it is easy to go over if you hit the wrong surface.
>2. Are there precautions that must be taken with recumbents so that a.) one
>does not take a spill; and b.) if one does take a spill, is there a certain
>way to fall to lessen the chance of serious injury?
Now you know that sand is something to watch out for. My Tour Easy
will throw me down instantly if I hit slick ice. I can also fall if I
fail to notice an uneven spot, most recently a ridge where the
pavement began to slope into a drain threw me down.
I have also been thrown when my attention wandered and my front wheel
dropped off the edge of the pavement into loose gravel on the side of
a state highway.
It sounds like I've fallen a lot, but I don't think it is as bad as it
sounds. I think I'm riding much, much more than I was before, and I
blame myself for not moving up the learning curve faster. You have to
pay attention to the surface your traversing. Even a slight
irregularity has the potential to flip you if you manage to run it at
the wrong angle. Our Tour Easy recumbents are great road machines but
we have to be careful in anything loose. If I had unclipped when I saw
the sandy ruts ahead I would have avoided the only road rash inducing
fall I've had.
>
>The bottom line is that I love my recumbent, have no buyer's remorse, and
>will continue to ride it; but I'm just curious about whether anyone out
>there has any suggestions or comments that will put my mind at ease, so that
>I can just enjoy my rides without constantly worrying that I'm going to end
>up in the hospital again.
I may fall again, but I try to watch carefully where I'm headed and it
is has been quite a long time between my latest spill and the one
before that (maybe a year?).
When I have fallen I've not put a foot down, just sort of rolled onto
my left thigh & slid to a stop. At least I slid that time on ice at
speed (16 or 17 mph). The other times it's been more like the old guy
on the trike on the laugh-in shows from the sixties, just a roll over
& more of a giggle than a wreck.
Mike
>
>(By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
>to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
>style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
>"Dolan, you're a genius!")
>
>--Bruce Davis
>
Ed's on a good run right now, good to see you appreciate him. As long
as no one takes some of throw away bait he uses he can be
entertaining. Any attempt at conversing with him can run in nearly any
direction, and in some directions he seems to get stuck and become
disturbingly repetetive. You can bet he will deliver the final word,
no matter how inane, for he is dedicated to nothing so much as the
reply.
Bottom line is no one appreciates Ed as much as Ed.
Indiana Mike
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Date: 26 Jul 2005 23:33:35
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Indiana Mike" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:3sf8e15bj20kqhbq7s2g4vh9qmgkk4a8lf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:11:11 -0400, "Bruce Davis"
> <brucecdavis@comcast.net> wrote:
[...]
>>(By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
>>to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
>>style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
>>"Dolan, you're a genius!")
>>
>>--Bruce Davis
>>
>
> Ed's on a good run right now, good to see you appreciate him. As long
> as no one takes some of throw away bait he uses he can be
> entertaining. Any attempt at conversing with him can run in nearly any
> direction, and in some directions he seems to get stuck and become
> disturbingly repetetive. You can bet he will deliver the final word,
> no matter how inane, for he is dedicated to nothing so much as the
> reply.
>
> Bottom line is no one appreciates Ed as much as Ed.
>
> Indiana Mike
This thread has been around for a few days now without any further activity,
so I think it is now safe for me to post to it without raising the ire of
the entire newsgroup.
My throw away lines are there to add some spice. I mean to entertain and
amuse the reader above all else. I also like conversations that wander a bit
as almost all subjects are soon exhausted if adhered to closely. I only get
stuck when I am on my hobby horse, which invariably has to do with the
ignorance and stupidity of liberals and/or the evils of top posting.
I do like to accord everyone the courtesy and honor of a reply. I figure
anyone who has gone to the trouble of reading my not so humble words at
least deserves that much. And I know it is a great honor to receive a
personal response from someone as Great as I am.
I do not mind talking to myself because I like to listen to someone
intelligent and I also like to talk to someone intelligent. This can only be
accomplished if I am talking and listening to myself. That is the advantage
of being Great like I am.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
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Date: 24 Jul 2005 19:26:20
From: Steve knight
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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bents tent to have worse traction on the front then a df will. the
longer the wheel base the worse it will be. though the longer it is
the more time you have to react. so anything loose or wet or slippry
watch out for. like wet leaves and such.
I really liek this front tire it seems to grip far better
http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=983919734
I keep about 100psi in it.
I also foudn a pantour suspension hup helps with traction too.
as otehrs have said when you go down don't put your foot down. this
is called leg suck.
Knight-Toolworks
http://www.knight-toolworks.com
affordable handmade wooden planes
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Date: 25 Jul 2005 20:12:33
From: Bill Bushnell
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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Steve knight <stevek@knight-toolworks.com > wrote:
> bents tent to have worse traction on the front then a df will. the
> longer the wheel base the worse it will be. though the longer it is
> the more time you have to react. so anything loose or wet or slippry
> watch out for. like wet leaves and such.
> I really liek this front tire it seems to grip far better
> http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=983919734
> I keep about 100psi in it.
> I also foudn a pantour suspension hup helps with traction too.
> as otehrs have said when you go down don't put your foot down. this
> is called leg suck.
Good advice, except putting 100psi in the front tire. (See below.)
Here's my list of ways to avoid a front-end slide-out on a LWB:
1) Use your brain. More than anything else this will keep you out of
accidents. This means maintaining an awareness of your surroundings,
other road users, road conditions, speed, familiarity with the handling
characteristics of your bike, etc.
2) Practice riding your bike off-road on loose surfaces. Learn that it is
seldom wise to grab the brakes when a loss-of-control seems imminent and
that is is often better to _release_ the brakes when the tires start to
lose traction.
3) Don't overinflate your front tire. I run 90 psi in a Continental GP
(28mm) or 70psi in a Primo Comet (37mm). An overinflated front tire is
going to bounce all over the road when you corner hard on a road that has
any irregularities.
4) Put some weight over the front wheel. I carry all my water and some of
my other junk on handlebar bags (behind a fairing). I also lean forward
in my seat when cornering hard.
5) Know that if you do start to lose front-end traction, the best way to
regain it is to do one of the following: (a) release the front brake, if
you're using it, or (b) widen the turn. The LWB is quite forgiving of
exceeding front-end traction (compared to a road bike) if you react (but
don't overreact) quickly.
--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/
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Date: 24 Jul 2005 19:31:08
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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"Bruce Davis" <brucecdavis@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:VJOdnf2o57aaj3nfRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
[...]
> (By the way, I hope Ed Dolan the Great posts a reply, as in my short visit
> to this newsgroup, I have found his posts to be hilarious and his writing
> style to be top-notch. In the words of that old Lowenbrau commercial,
> "Dolan, you're a genius!")
>
> --Bruce Davis
Many thanks Bruce. I do write for a hidden readership as I am greatly under
appreciated by the ARBR regulars.These hidden readers are sometimes called
lurkers. There is nothing wrong with that as I lurked for over a year on
this group before I finally posted to it. What I learned mainly from my
lurking is that anything goes. We have a full panoply of human types here on
ARBR, from idiots like Slugger to geniuses like me.
I will not respond directly to your interesting post as I leave that sort of
thing to many others here who are much better at it than I could ever be. If
I got involved at this early stage your message will get derailed and we may
end up talking about how the Americas were populated by NE Siberians. I kid
you not. However, I may jump in at the end and administer the coup de grace
to all the idiotic responses that your message will engender.
I am like the final sag (sweeper) who cleans up after all the trash that
gets posted here. I will shortly no doubt have to take on Slugger yet once
again (my nightly chore) as he has taken to calling me a bastard and that I
should go fuck myself. What is really odd is that he has just recently taken
to calling me a bitch. This is very strange indeed. It may be that I have
finally driven him around the bend and he is now ready for the insane
asylum. In any event, I will keep plugging away, doing my duty as God gives
me the light to see it.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 24 Jul 2005 17:08:28
From: LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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Bruce Davis wrote:
> ... I broke my ankle. I was coming down a slight slope,
> perhaps going a little too fast for a novice, and came
> upon some wet leaves on the trail. The bike started sliding,
> I braked, and it slid out from under me. When I put my left
> foot down to the ground, I rolled over and onto the ground.
> I ended up with my left foot pointing 90 degrees to the right.
I did essentially the same thing to my right ankle six years ago on my
M5 a half-year after I got it, even though definitely not a novice
having spent the previous eight years on my Tour Easy. My wife blamed
the bike, but I blamed myself for exceeding my limitations on a bike I
had not yet become completely familiar with. This factor of
unfamiliarity may result in more crashes on recumbents than on
diamond-frame bikes.
--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)
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Date: 24 Jul 2005 18:27:21
From: Jonathan Kaplan
Subject: Re: Do Recumbents Crash More Than Regular Bikes?
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Sounds like you are a candidate for a trike! But seriously, I used to have a
Toureasy and found that anytime the front wheel encounters any slippery
surface, you will probably go down. I replaced the stock tires with a
Schwalbe athon front and rear. Once I had the Schwalbe (which has much
more tread than the stock primo), I had less problems. The two times I went
down on the TE were on sand and a groove in the road.
I'm familiar with the Manayunk trail. I did the tour de Philadelphia a few
years ago. There is one awful stretch that is gravel ended by cobblestones.
I had a Penninger recumbent trike at the time with Primo Comets. The
cinders/Gravel ended up wearing a hole in the side wall. At the end, it
could not even climb the cobblestones (the wheels just spun). I might add
that that bike ride was one of the hilliest I had ever been on (not the
schukill trail, but the streets which had stop signs at hill bottoms, then
killer hills to climb on the other side of the stop signs.)
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