| |
Main
Date: 01 Sep 2007 10:33:22
From: Artemisia
Subject: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
Still on the subject of recumbent trikes, there's this Rohloff equipped
Greenspeed GT3 on British ebay for £1,299.00 (about half as much as my
Scorpion will cost) that has had zero bids. It has been tempting me most
horribly, but I've set my heart on the Scorpion and a different
configuration.
http://tinyurl.com/yq7ykn
Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
everyone? That bike is equipped down to the last pannier; it has
everything (except suspension, and 81 gears, and Magura Big brakes...)
And no, I don't know the seller in Bishop's Stortford. But I
instinctively feel he must be a gentleman of refined sensibility to
possess such a beautiful machine.
EFR
Ile de France
|
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 15:30:34
From: CoyoteBoy
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
On 1 Sep, 18:09, Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com > wrote:
> In article <1188666201.765834.149...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> CoyoteBoy
> james.buc...@gmail.com says...
>
> > Sniping is part of all auctions, both virtual and real
>
> Not really - the hammer doesn't fall in a real auction until the
> auctioneer's satisfied he's got the highest bid. If I'm interested in a
> lot at a real auction I'll wait until the bidding slows down before
> placing my first bid, but that's not the same as sniping.
Good point. Someone slap me.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 10:03:21
From: CoyoteBoy
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
On 1 Sep, 16:07, a...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> In article <fbbd5h$onh$0...@news.t-online.com>, Tosspot wrote:
> >Artemisia wrote:
> >> Still on the subject of recumbent trikes, there's this Rohloff equipped
> >> Greenspeed GT3 on British ebay for =A31,299.00 (about half as much as =
my
> >> Scorpion will cost) that has had zero bids.
> [...]
> >Thats quite a good price if the description is accurate. The hub alone
> >has to be worth 500 odd.
>
> It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual pr=
ice
> to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their sniping softwa=
re.
> Why ebay doesn't just support sealed bid auctions and cut out the automat=
ed
> sniping step, I'm not sure.
Sniping is part of all auctions, both virtual and real - if you dont
like sniping you dont like auctions, theres no bloody point in buying
from an auction if you put in something close to the final price
straight away. The whole fun of auctions is who can get it and how
cheap can they manage - if you want to buy something for around the
going price, buy a "buy it now" or go to a shop.
|
| | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 18:09:24
From: Rob Morley
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <1188666201.765834.149480@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >,
CoyoteBoy
james.buckle@gmail.com says...
> Sniping is part of all auctions, both virtual and real
Not really - the hammer doesn't fall in a real auction until the
auctioneer's satisfied he's got the highest bid. If I'm interested in a
lot at a real auction I'll wait until the bidding slows down before
placing my first bid, but that's not the same as sniping.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 16:11:50
From: Rob Morley
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <46d923ce$0$410$426a74cc@news.free.fr >, Artemisia
nospam@free.fr says...
> Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
> everyone?
I take it that you're not acquainted with the concept of "auction
sniping" then? Early bids will only drive the price up, so they wait
until the closing seconds to place a bid in the hope that nobody has
already bid higher and they won't have a chance to place a higher bid
before the listing closes. Expect a flurry of activity in the closing
seconds. I generally bid within about 5 seconds of the end - I'd quite
like to on this listing but the bank balance says no. :-(
|
| | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 02:18:02
From: vernon
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
"Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com > wrote in message
news:MPG.21438e1572a59cb498b0d0@news.individual.net...
> In article <46d923ce$0$410$426a74cc@news.free.fr>, Artemisia
> nospam@free.fr says...
>
>> Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
>> everyone?
>
> I take it that you're not acquainted with the concept of "auction
> sniping" then? Early bids will only drive the price up, so they wait
> until the closing seconds to place a bid in the hope that nobody has
> already bid higher and they won't have a chance to place a higher bid
> before the listing closes. Expect a flurry of activity in the closing
> seconds. I generally bid within about 5 seconds of the end - I'd quite
> like to on this listing but the bank balance says no. :-(
There are aspects of automated sniping that are beneficial to the buyer:
1. It removes the temptation to get drawn into a bidding war and protects
one's solvency.
2. It isn't always possible to be at a computer at the close of an auction -
remote sniping will place one's bid in abstentia.
It's not possible to compare Ebay to live auctions, they operate in very
different ways. Sniping does not always win. The highest bidder always
wins - sometimes by sniping.
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 21:00:28
From: Paul Boyd
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
On 02/09/2007 02:18, vernon said,
> Sniping does not always win. The highest bidder always
> wins - sometimes by sniping.
That's the bit that anti-snipers always seem to miss - sniping is no
guarantee of winning!
--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 08:39:52
From: Phil Armstrong
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
vernon <public@privacy.net > wrote:
> It's not possible to compare Ebay to live auctions, they operate in very
> different ways. Sniping does not always win. The highest bidder always
> wins - sometimes by sniping.
Plus, I believe that it's a standard result in micro-economics that it
doesn't matter what auction method one uses; they all give the same
final price[1].
Don't have a good reference to hand unfortunately.
Phil
[1] On average, & excepting purchases of items which represent a very
large proportion of ones total wealth, eg a house, where sealed
bids results in people paying more IIRC.
--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
|
| | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 15:54:42
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <8v5qq4-g98.ln1@slug.kantaka.co.uk >, Phil Armstrong wrote:
>vernon <public@privacy.net> wrote:
>> It's not possible to compare Ebay to live auctions, they operate in very
>> different ways. Sniping does not always win. The highest bidder always
>> wins - sometimes by sniping.
>
>Plus, I believe that it's a standard result in micro-economics that it
>doesn't matter what auction method one uses; they all give the same
>final price[1].
>
>Don't have a good reference to hand unfortunately.
>
>Phil
>
>[1] On average, & excepting purchases of items which represent a very
> large proportion of ones total wealth, eg a house, where sealed
> bids results in people paying more IIRC.
Only if you assume rational buyers who have good market information
before the auction, I suspect. In reality bidders sometimes get caught
up in a bidding war and spend more than they planned, and this is
sometimes rational because knowing someone else is prepared to bid
that much is information you didn't have beforehand which might push
up your assessment of how much it is worth to you.
eBay auctions also differ from a standard auction in that the winner
doesn't pay whatever they bid, but a slight increment over what the
second highest bidder bid (or the starting price, if there is only
one bid). So we can't tell what we would have had to bid to beat the
winner.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 04 Sep 2007 08:49:36
From: Phil Armstrong
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
Alan Braggins <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk > wrote:
> eBay auctions also differ from a standard auction in that the winner
> doesn't pay whatever they bid, but a slight increment over what the
> second highest bidder bid (or the starting price, if there is only
> one bid). So we can't tell what we would have had to bid to beat the
> winner.
It doesn't matter: Like I said, the result is independent of the type
of auction. Dutch, reverse dutch, sealed bids, sealed bids with second
highest price going to winner (ebay style), etc etc. They all achieve
(on average) the same final price.
The exception is when people are buying something which represents a
large cost to them, especially if it has a strong emotional component,
where sealed bids gets a higher price than other methods.
(The reference is an economics book I have upstairs; I'll see if I can
dig it out.)
Phil
--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 04 Sep 2007 09:55:24
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <g9fvq4-s35.ln1@slug.kantaka.co.uk >, Phil Armstrong wrote:
>Alan Braggins <armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> eBay auctions also differ from a standard auction in that the winner
>> doesn't pay whatever they bid, but a slight increment over what the
>> second highest bidder bid (or the starting price, if there is only
>> one bid). So we can't tell what we would have had to bid to beat the
>> winner.
>
>It doesn't matter: Like I said, the result is independent of the type
>of auction. Dutch, reverse dutch, sealed bids, sealed bids with second
>highest price going to winner (ebay style), etc etc. They all achieve
>(on average) the same final price.
>
>The exception is when people are buying something which represents a
>large cost to them, especially if it has a strong emotional component,
>where sealed bids gets a higher price than other methods.
>
>(The reference is an economics book I have upstairs; I'll see if I can
>dig it out.)
If you find it, check whether they examined the case of sealed bids
with a strong emotional component for items which are rare and strongly
non fungible but not necessarily a large cost. I suspect a similar
effect will occur, but it's only a suspicion.
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 11:57:44
From: Tosspot
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
Artemisia wrote:
> Still on the subject of recumbent trikes, there's this Rohloff equipped
> Greenspeed GT3 on British ebay for £1,299.00 (about half as much as my
> Scorpion will cost) that has had zero bids. It has been tempting me most
> horribly, but I've set my heart on the Scorpion and a different
> configuration.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yq7ykn
>
> Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
> everyone? That bike is equipped down to the last pannier; it has
> everything (except suspension, and 81 gears, and Magura Big brakes...)
> And no, I don't know the seller in Bishop's Stortford. But I
> instinctively feel he must be a gentleman of refined sensibility to
> possess such a beautiful machine.
Thats quite a good price if the description is accurate. The hub alone
has to be worth 500 odd.
|
| | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 16:07:51
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <fbbd5h$onh$02$1@news.t-online.com >, Tosspot wrote:
>Artemisia wrote:
>> Still on the subject of recumbent trikes, there's this Rohloff equipped
>> Greenspeed GT3 on British ebay for £1,299.00 (about half as much as my
>> Scorpion will cost) that has had zero bids.
[...]
>Thats quite a good price if the description is accurate. The hub alone
>has to be worth 500 odd.
It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual price
to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their sniping software.
Why ebay doesn't just support sealed bid auctions and cut out the automated
sniping step, I'm not sure.
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 21:04:08
From: Paul Boyd
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
On 01/09/2007 16:07, Alan Braggins said,
> It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual price
> to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their sniping software.
> Why ebay doesn't just support sealed bid auctions and cut out the automated
> sniping step, I'm not sure.
Because eBay doesn't work in the same way as "real world" auctions - the
whole concept is the highest bid within a fixed time wins. Within this
time frame, it matters not a jot how or when the bid is placed. A
sniper has no idea what the current high bidder's maximum bid is, so
it's no guarantee of winning.
Besides, I've never used sniping software in my life :-) I like the
adrenalin rush of sitting there watching the seconds count down.
--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 15:42:26
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <slrnfdj027.qqu.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk >, Alan Braggins wrote:
>In article <fbbd5h$onh$02$1@news.t-online.com>, Tosspot wrote:
>>Artemisia wrote:
>>> Still on the subject of recumbent trikes, there's this Rohloff equipped
>>> Greenspeed GT3 on British ebay for £1,299.00 (about half as much as my
>>> Scorpion will cost) that has had zero bids.
>[...]
>>Thats quite a good price if the description is accurate. The hub alone
>>has to be worth 500 odd.
>
>It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual price
>to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their sniping software.
I take it back - winning bid placed more than 40 seconds before the end,
and only one bid, so the winner has got it at a very good price.
|
| | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 10:03:44
From: Tony Raven
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote in
news:slrnfdliui.rtj.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk:
>>
>>It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual
>>price to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their
>>sniping software.
>
> I take it back - winning bid placed more than 40 seconds before the
> end, and only one bid, so the winner has got it at a very good price.
With only one bid and no reserve he seems to have paid much more than he
needed to.
--
Tony
" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell
|
| | | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 16:29:22
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
"Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.invalid > wrote in message
news:Xns999FA36068E00TR@216.196.109.145...
> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote in
> news:slrnfdliui.rtj.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk:
>
>>>
>>>It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual
>>>price to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their
>>>sniping software.
>>
>> I take it back - winning bid placed more than 40 seconds before the
>> end, and only one bid, so the winner has got it at a very good price.
>
> With only one bid and no reserve he seems to have paid much more than he
> needed to.
He paid the starting price, which in this case was effectively the reserve.
He couldn't have paid less in this auction.
cheers,
clive
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 03 Sep 2007 11:22:36
From: Alan Braggins
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <13dllobl48oh1fb@corp.supernews.com >, Clive George wrote:
>"Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.invalid> wrote in message
>> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote in
>>>>
>>>>It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual
>>>>price to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their
>>>>sniping software.
>>>
>>> I take it back - winning bid placed more than 40 seconds before the
>>> end, and only one bid, so the winner has got it at a very good price.
>>
>> With only one bid and no reserve he seems to have paid much more than he
>> needed to.
>
>He paid the starting price, which in this case was effectively the reserve.
>He couldn't have paid less in this auction.
If he knew there were going to be no other bids, he could have not bid
and hoped the seller relisted it with a lower starting price. But he can't
know that no-one else is going to bid at the last second, so if he thinks
that's a good price for a Rohloff equipped Greenspeed and there's unlikely
to be another one along in a moment, the sensible thing is to bid.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 22:14:54
From: Tosspot
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
Clive George wrote:
> "Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns999FA36068E00TR@216.196.109.145...
>
>> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote in
>> news:slrnfdliui.rtj.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk:
>>
>>>>
>>>> It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual
>>>> price to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their
>>>> sniping software.
>>>
>>>
>>> I take it back - winning bid placed more than 40 seconds before the
>>> end, and only one bid, so the winner has got it at a very good price.
>>
>>
>> With only one bid and no reserve he seems to have paid much more than he
>> needed to.
>
>
> He paid the starting price, which in this case was effectively the reserve.
>
> He couldn't have paid less in this auction.
There was no reserve. But I'd have been leery of bidding under.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Sep 2007 21:28:22
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
"Tosspot" <FrankDotLeake@esa.int > wrote in message
news:fbf5mq$rpb$00$2@news.t-online.com...
> Clive George wrote:
>> "Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Xns999FA36068E00TR@216.196.109.145...
>>
>>> armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote in
>>> news:slrnfdliui.rtj.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual
>>>>> price to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their
>>>>> sniping software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I take it back - winning bid placed more than 40 seconds before the
>>>> end, and only one bid, so the winner has got it at a very good price.
>>>
>>>
>>> With only one bid and no reserve he seems to have paid much more than he
>>> needed to.
>>
>>
>> He paid the starting price, which in this case was effectively the
>> reserve.
>>
>> He couldn't have paid less in this auction.
>
> There was no reserve. But I'd have been leery of bidding under.
You can't bid less than the starting price on ebay...
cheers,
clive
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 16:30:55
From: Rob Morley
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <slrnfdj027.qqu.armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk >, Alan Braggins
armb@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
> It would be a good price if that was the price to beat, but the actual price
> to beat is whatever everyone interested has put into their sniping software.
> Why ebay doesn't just support sealed bid auctions and cut out the automated
> sniping step, I'm not sure.
>
Not all listings are sniped, and not all sniping is automated. If the
proxy bidding system didn't show the current high bid then there
wouldn't be bidding wars so final prices would probably be lower and
eBay would get a smaller commission. I'm pretty sure they'll have run
analyses to figure out the most profitable system.
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 17:00:41
From: Clive George
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
"Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com > wrote in message
news:MPG.214395fe9303a59498b0d2@news.individual.net...
> Not all listings are sniped, and not all sniping is automated. If the
> proxy bidding system didn't show the current high bid then there
> wouldn't be bidding wars so final prices would probably be lower and
> eBay would get a smaller commission. I'm pretty sure they'll have run
> analyses to figure out the most profitable system.
Bidding wars are good for ebay, coz higher prices and interest in bits means
people are more likely to put stuff up for sale - and that would even be
good for them without a percentage cut.
If I were a seller I'd be interested in an auction which shuts x minutes
after the final bid, thus giving people the chance to engage in a bidding
war rather than having their sniping software protect them from their own
foolishness.
cheers,
clive
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 10:52:23
From: Paul Boyd
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
Artemisia said the following on 01/09/2007 09:33:
> Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers?
8 hours left? The auction has barely started! If I was going to bid on
that, it would be in the last 3-5 seconds.
But I won't be bidding, much as I'd like a new toy :-)
--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
|
| |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 10:41:14
From: Danny Colyer
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
On 01/09/2007 09:33, Artemisia wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/yq7ykn
>
> Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
> everyone?
I think it's the 8 hours left bit. I wouldn't bid on an item 8 hours
before bidding ends.
Take another look in the last couple of minutes of bidding and see what
happens then.
--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk >
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2
|
| | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 18:12:14
From: Rob Morley
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
In article <13dicuprbnr1u2c@corp.supernews.com >, Danny Colyer
danny_colyer@hotmail.com says...
> On 01/09/2007 09:33, Artemisia wrote:
> > http://tinyurl.com/yq7ykn
> >
> > Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
> > everyone?
>
> I think it's the 8 hours left bit. I wouldn't bid on an item 8 hours
> before bidding ends.
>
> Take another look in the last couple of minutes of bidding and see what
> happens then.
>
>
Sold for the starting price. Maybe everyone's cleaned out after the
summer holidays, or doesn't feel like cycling now autumn's on its way.
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Sep 2007 19:20:36
From: Tosspot
Subject: Re: Does No One Want that Gorgeous Machine?
|
Rob Morley wrote:
> In article <13dicuprbnr1u2c@corp.supernews.com>, Danny Colyer
> danny_colyer@hotmail.com says...
>
>>On 01/09/2007 09:33, Artemisia wrote:
>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/yq7ykn
>>>
>>>Only 8 hours left as of writing and no takers? What's the matter with
>>>everyone?
>>
>>I think it's the 8 hours left bit. I wouldn't bid on an item 8 hours
>>before bidding ends.
>>
>>Take another look in the last couple of minutes of bidding and see what
>>happens then.
>>
>>
>
> Sold for the starting price. Maybe everyone's cleaned out after the
> summer holidays, or doesn't feel like cycling now autumn's on its way.
Base price seems around 2750USD+1250USD for the Rohloff, new price 4k
USD or 2k English squids, so 1300 for a good condition 500 miler with
paniers and headrest was a bargain.
|
|
