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Main
Date: 02 Jul 2007 03:58:37
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
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Let us say you are from Mars and you are confronted with Christianity on
Earth. The very first thing you will note about it is how crazy it is. But
any and all other religions are equally crazy, if not more so.
Now let us say that you stumble upon this Ohio graveyard and encounter this
inscription on a headstone:
"Once I wasn't, Then I was, Now I ain't again."
Aye, now we are getting somewhere. But the above is too stark. There is not
one person in a thousand who can appreciate it. So instead we turn to our
poets of death and despondency to enlighten us further:
T.S. Eliot (1888-1965). Prufrock and Other Observations. 1917.
1. The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
S'io credesse che mia risposta fosse
A persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
Ma perciocche giammai di questo fondo
Non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero,
Senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo.
LET us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats 5
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question . 10
Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes, 15
The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes
Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap, 20
And seeing that it was a soft October night,
Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.
And indeed there will be time
For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
Rubbing its back upon the window-panes; 25
There will be time, there will be time
To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
There will be time to murder and create,
And time for all the works and days of hands
That lift and drop a question on your plate; 30
Time for you and time for me,
And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
And for a hundred visions and revisions,
Before the taking of a toast and tea.
In the room the women come and go 35
Talking of Michelangelo.
And indeed there will be time
To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?"
Time to turn back and descend the stair,
With a bald spot in the middle of my hair- 40
[They will say: "How his hair is growing thin!"]
My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin-
[They will say: "But how his arms and legs are thin!"]
Do I dare 45
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
For I have known them all already, known them all:-
Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons, 50
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
I know the voices dying with a dying fall
Beneath the music from a farther room.
So how should I presume?
And I have known the eyes already, known them all- 55
The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways? 60
And how should I presume?
And I have known the arms already, known them all-
Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
[But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!]
It is perfume from a dress 65
That makes me so digress?
Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
And should I then presume?
And how should I begin?
. . . . .
Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets 70
And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows?.
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
. . . . .
And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully! 75
Smoothed by long fingers,
Asleep . tired . or it malingers,
Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis? 80
But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
Though I have seen my head [grown slightly bald] brought in upon a platter,
I am no prophet-and here's no great matter;
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, 85
And in short, I was afraid.
And would it have been worth it, after all,
After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
Would it have been worth while, 90
To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed the universe into a ball
To roll it toward some overwhelming question,
To say: "I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all"- 95
If one, settling a pillow by her head,
Should say: "That is not what I meant at all.
That is not it, at all."
And would it have been worth it, after all,
Would it have been worth while, 100
After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the
floor-
And this, and so much more?-
It is impossible to say just what I mean!
But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
105
Would it have been worth while
If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
And turning toward the window, should say:
"That is not it at all,
That is not what I meant, at all."
. . . . . 110
No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant lord, one that will do
To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad to be of use, 115
Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-
Almost, at times, the Fool.
I grow old . I grow old . 120
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
I do not think that they will sing to me. 125
I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
When the wind blows the water white and black.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown 130
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
Hey, welcome to my world. Aye, dying and death is all about us every moment
of every day. But it is only at the wee hours of the night that we can ever
experience full despondency. The most dreaded hour is 4:00 AM. Ah, what a
perfect time to die.
There is no solace anywhere in the universe. That is because the universe is
pitiless. It only IS, just like we are. Until it ISN'T, just like we are.
Let us all praise motherly death. Ah, extinction and oblivion, an end
devoutly to be wished for.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 18 Jul 2007 14:06:04
From: JimmyMac
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
On Jul 6, 2:08 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net > wrote:
> "Jeff Grippe" <j...@door7.com> wrote in message
>
> news:138j0ap9bktma64@news.supernews.com...
>
> ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
>
> > Jim,
>
> > You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
> > pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He just
> > likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave the
> > groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir up
> > the soup. Big Deal!
>
> > Jeff
>
> Jeff Grippe, unlike Mr. McNamara, is not moved by spite. I have never met a
> Jew in my life, even a smart ass New York Jew like Jeff, who did not have
> many redeeming qualities. All Jews everywhere in the world have at least a
> sense of humanity, something that Mr. McNamara sorely lacks.
>
> Mr. McNamara is constituted of an unholy nature, half Polish and half Irish.
> The only thing these two races have in common is their Roman Catholicism.
> Other than that, it is a disaster of human commingling which Mr. McNamara
> proves every time he posts to Usenet.
Unholy??? Disaster of human commingling? Opinion stated as fact. Not
that anyone cares or keeps score other than the Dolan who seems to
think it is somehow important what one's ethnicity is, where they
live, what there occupation is and where the attended school, but he's
got it wrong since he left out my English ancestry..
> Does not Mr. McNamara know that I have no interest in him whatever. I am
> only into Myself. He needs to study my signature more if he would ever get
> wise.
But I have ... HEAD Dolan the GRATE ... Out lady of perpetual sorry-
asses. It has a nice ring to it.
Jim McNamara
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 19 Jul 2007 06:08:50
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"JimmyMac" <jimmymac_4@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1184792764.213654.25520@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 6, 2:08 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>> "Jeff Grippe" <j...@door7.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:138j0ap9bktma64@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
>>
>> > Jim,
>>
>> > You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
>> > pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He
>> > just
>> > likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave
>> > the
>> > groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir
>> > up
>> > the soup. Big Deal!
>>
>> > Jeff
>>
>> Jeff Grippe, unlike Mr. McNamara, is not moved by spite. I have never met
>> a
>> Jew in my life, even a smart ass New York Jew like Jeff, who did not have
>> many redeeming qualities. All Jews everywhere in the world have at least
>> a
>> sense of humanity, something that Mr. McNamara sorely lacks.
>>
>> Mr. McNamara is constituted of an unholy nature, half Polish and half
>> Irish.
>> The only thing these two races have in common is their Roman Catholicism.
>> Other than that, it is a disaster of human commingling which Mr. McNamara
>> proves every time he posts to Usenet.
>
> Unholy??? Disaster of human commingling? Opinion stated as fact. Not
> that anyone cares or keeps score other than the Dolan who seems to
> think it is somehow important what one's ethnicity is, where they
> live, what there occupation is and where the attended school, but he's
> got it wrong since he left out my English ancestry..
Ethnicity counts. It always has and it always will. What you needed to
explain however was your spite, not your confounded mixed ancestry.
>> Does not Mr. McNamara know that I have no interest in him whatever. I am
>> only into Myself. He needs to study my signature more if he would ever
>> get
>> wise.
>
> But I have ... HEAD Dolan the GRATE ... Out lady of perpetual sorry-
> asses. It has a nice ring to it.
Yea, think deeply on it, for that is all you will ever likely know about me.
Spite breeds ignorance if nothing else.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 02 Jul 2007 20:42:46
From: JimmyMac
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
Tom,
Let's just put it this way. If the man were to take his life, I would
not shed a tear and I suspect that very few would.
The obnoxious Ed Dolan is bewitched by a twisted sense of self-
importance. He is absorbed in his own wayward drama. Ed Dolan
doesn't suffer from delusion. He enjoys it. One thing that can
always be expected from the anorak Ed Dolan is his myopic, dogmatic,
"authoritarian" ignorance. Ed mistakenly believes to be true
everything that thinks and expects the readership to concur. Ed Dolan
also expeces the readership to abide by his prescriptive prattle.
What Ed Dolan fails to recognize is that the readership has
acknowledged that Ed Dolan's opinions matter not because he matters
not! Why such an elementary concept has escapes the HEADward the
GRATE's powers of perception is an enigma. The conundrum continues.
I think I just agreed that ... YES, Ed is relatively benign and stirs
up the soup, but few like the taste of the broth that Ed serves up
Nonetheless, Usenet newsgroups would be better off without his brand
of crapola.
Jim
On Jul 2, 7:47 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 2, 5:52 pm, Jeff Grippe TOP POSTED:
>
> > Jim,
>
> > You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
> > pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He just
> > likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave the
> > groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir up
> > the soup. Big Deal!
>
> Finally, someone with some sense!
>
> I can not believe how people let themselves be run off the newsgroup
> (alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent) by Mr. Ed. Do they expect the world to be
> like an episode of Barney?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 05 Jul 2007 18:49:42
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"JimmyMac" <jimmymac_4@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183434166.894973.102130@k29g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> Tom,
>
> Let's just put it this way. If the man were to take his life, I would
> not shed a tear and I suspect that very few would.
Let me put it this way, if Mr. McNamara would ever get a soul I would not
object. But instead, all we ever get from him is spite. Hey, walk on egg
shells when you are around this freak! He will take offense if you even look
at him crosswise. The more I hear from Mr. McNamara, the better I understand
Ed Gin, the criminal vandal troll who destroyed ARBR.
> The obnoxious Ed Dolan is bewitched by a twisted sense of self-
> importance. He is absorbed in his own wayward drama. Ed Dolan
> doesn't suffer from delusion. He enjoys it. One thing that can
> always be expected from the anorak [?] Ed Dolan is his myopic, dogmatic,
> "authoritarian" ignorance. Ed mistakenly believes to be true
> everything that thinks and expects the readership to concur. Ed Dolan
> also expeces the readership to abide by his prescriptive prattle.
> What Ed Dolan fails to recognize is that the readership has
> acknowledged that Ed Dolan's opinions matter not because he matters
> not! Why such an elementary concept has escapes the HEADward the
> GRATE's powers of perception is an enigma. The conundrum continues.
The Great Ed Dolan does not give a tinker's damn what anyone thinks of him
or what anyone thinks of anything else either for that matter. But he would
like to occasionally be engaged on matters that he brings up. Of course, you
need a brain in order to be able to do this. Spite just does not cut it.
> I think I just agreed that ... YES, Ed is relatively benign and stirs
> up the soup, but few like the taste of the broth that Ed serves up
> Nonetheless, Usenet newsgroups would be better off without his brand
> of crapola.
Usenet newsgroups, at least those without moderators, are for fools like the
lot of us. I enjoy playing the fool. Unless you do too, I suggest you find a
group with a moderator who will edit what you say.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
> On Jul 2, 7:47 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 2, 5:52 pm, Jeff Grippe TOP POSTED:
>>
>> > Jim,
>>
>> > You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
>> > pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He
>> > just
>> > likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave
>> > the
>> > groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir
>> > up
>> > the soup. Big Deal!
>>
>> Finally, someone with some sense!
>>
>> I can not believe how people let themselves be run off the newsgroup
>> (alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent) by Mr. Ed. Do they expect the world to be
>> like an episode of Barney?
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 17:47:32
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
On Jul 2, 5:52 pm, Jeff Grippe TOP POSTED:
> Jim,
>
> You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
> pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He just
> likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave the
> groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir up
> the soup. Big Deal!
Finally, someone with some sense!
I can not believe how people let themselves be run off the newsgroup
(alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent) by Mr. Ed. Do they expect the world to be
like an episode of Barney?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 14:20:24
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183423652.236815.88230@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 2, 5:52 pm, Jeff Grippe TOP POSTED:
>> Jim,
>>
>> You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
>> pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He just
>> likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave the
>> groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir
>> up
>> the soup. Big Deal!
>
> Finally, someone with some sense!
>
> I can not believe how people let themselves be run off the newsgroup
> (alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent) by Mr. Ed. Do they expect the world to be
> like an episode of Barney?
I do not run anyone off a newsgroup. They decide to leave of their own free
will because they are unaware of human nature as it has existed from time
immemorial. They need to be baby sat like children on a moderated newsgroup
where a dictator can edit what is said and what is not said. Like you, the
thought of this is odious to me, but still, if you want to keep a newsgroup
strictly on topic, it is probably necessary human nature being what it is.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 02 Jul 2007 13:20:10
From: T. Ling Yu
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
Should I inform the authorities of your demise, Ed?
Ed?
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in
news:u4qdna4naMDUIxXbnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@prairiewave.com:
> Hey, welcome to my world. Aye, dying and death is all about us every
> moment of every day. But it is only at the wee hours of the night that
> we can ever experience full despondency. The most dreaded hour is 4:00
> AM. Ah, what a perfect time to die.
>
Ed?
> There is no solace anywhere in the universe. That is because the
> universe is pitiless. It only IS, just like we are. Until it ISN'T,
> just like we are. Let us all praise motherly death. Ah, extinction and
> oblivion, an end devoutly to be wished for.
>
Hello?
Ed?
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| | |
Date: 05 Jul 2007 18:58:12
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"T. Ling Yu" <trohlyu@frontend-0-0.local > wrote in message
news:1FC99614A9E01D272127@194.226.127.225...
> Should I inform the authorities of your demise, Ed?
>
> Ed?
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in
> news:u4qdna4naMDUIxXbnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@prairiewave.com:
>
>> Hey, welcome to my world. Aye, dying and death is all about us every
>> moment of every day. But it is only at the wee hours of the night that
>> we can ever experience full despondency. The most dreaded hour is 4:00
>> AM. Ah, what a perfect time to die.
>>
>
> Ed?
>
>> There is no solace anywhere in the universe. That is because the
>> universe is pitiless. It only IS, just like we are. Until it ISN'T,
>> just like we are. Let us all praise motherly death. Ah, extinction and
>> oblivion, an end devoutly to be wished for.
>>
>
> Hello?
> Ed?
We are all dying each and every day a little and there is never any point in
rushing the process. But some are so stupid as to not even be aware of the
process.
I now know more dead folks that I do live folks. This is an indication that
I shall soon join that majority myself.
Beware of the witching hour of 4:00 AM. That is the time of the Grim Reaper.
"Once I wasn't, Then I was, Now I ain't again."
- Epitaph found on tombstone in Ohio graveyard
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
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Date: 08 Jul 2007 06:19:22
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:JOqdnQ6KafY4GBDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> We are all dying each and every day a little and there is never any point
> in rushing the process. But some are so stupid as to not even be aware of
> the process.
>
You could look at it that way but we are also all living each and every day.
Death is not a process. It is an event much the same way conception and
birth are events. To look at them as a process robs them of any distinction.
While you might say that the journey of life (or consciousness to be more
precise) ends with death, it does not follow that we are dying. To focus on
this aspect alone makes no more sense than to deny it. You must learn to
live with death without dying every day.
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Date: 11 Jul 2007 20:35:48
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:1391ehblhgprna0@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:JOqdnQ6KafY4GBDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
>> We are all dying each and every day a little and there is never any point
>> in rushing the process. But some are so stupid as to not even be aware of
>> the process.
>>
>
> You could look at it that way but we are also all living each and every
> day. Death is not a process. It is an event much the same way conception
> and birth are events. To look at them as a process robs them of any
> distinction. While you might say that the journey of life (or
> consciousness to be more precise) ends with death, it does not follow that
> we are dying. To focus on this aspect alone makes no more sense than to
> deny it. You must learn to live with death without dying every day.
Jeff, there is a switch-over point that occurs sometime in your 60's when
you realize you are getting damn close to the end.
A young person who thinks about death is a freak, but an old person who does
NOT think about death is also a freak.
Nonetheless, I like your point about death being merely an event and not a
process. I am going to try to think of it that way myself.
Christians are always thinking about death much more so than Jews. Entire
civilizations have been oriented around death. The Jews want to be saved in
this world ( all that Messiah crap). Christians KNOW that this world is next
to nothing, but atheists like myself KNOW that this is all there ever was
and ever shall be. Amen!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
PS. I do not think Jeff will ever be eligible for my Order of the Perpetual
Sorrows. He is just too god damn cheerful!
PS2. There are no more wretched creatures in this world than fallen away
Roman Catholics. Aye, keep the Faith, but easier said than done!
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Date: 12 Jul 2007 22:23:25
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:yrKdnSIxuqYQGAjbnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> Jeff, there is a switch-over point that occurs sometime in your 60's when
> you realize you are getting damn close to the end.
You could be right although I'm ten years from getting there. Hopefully
we'll both be around and I'll share my thoughts with you at that time.
> A young person who thinks about death is a freak, but an old person who
> does NOT think about death is also a freak.
> Nonetheless, I like your point about death being merely an event and not a
> process. I am going to try to think of it that way myself.
I was that sort of freak. In my late teens and early twenties I was quite
troubled by death. I made my peace with death, however, and it doesn't
trouble me. You are correct about me being too cheerful. It is my lot in
life. I can almost always see the bright side and fail to account for what
can go wrong.
> PS. I do not think Jeff will ever be eligible for my Order of the
> Perpetual Sorrows. He is just too god damn cheerful!
That's ok, Ed. I wasn't looking to join an order. There's far too many of
them already if you ask me. It is all these orders that is responsible for
all the disorder. That's my opinion.
> PS2. There are no more wretched creatures in this world than fallen away
> Roman Catholics. Aye, keep the Faith, but easier said than done!
I think that Christians should keep the faith. But I think that they should
follow Jesus not worship him. He never considered himself anything other
than a somewhat enlightened Rabbi. I would love to be able to read and
understand that bible in its original language without King James or anyone
else to tell me what it says. I don't actually ever plan to make the effort,
however. I'd bet that Jesus wasn't claiming anything that he didn't feel was
available to everyone.
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Date: 14 Jul 2007 22:30:24
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:139doh3d3lqks46@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:yrKdnSIxuqYQGAjbnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
>> Jeff, there is a switch-over point that occurs sometime in your 60's when
>> you realize you are getting damn close to the end.
>
> You could be right although I'm ten years from getting there. Hopefully
> we'll both be around and I'll share my thoughts with you at that time.
>
>> A young person who thinks about death is a freak, but an old person who
>> does NOT think about death is also a freak.
>> Nonetheless, I like your point about death being merely an event and not
>> a process. I am going to try to think of it that way myself.
>
> I was that sort of freak. In my late teens and early twenties I was quite
> troubled by death. I made my peace with death, however, and it doesn't
> trouble me. You are correct about me being too cheerful. It is my lot in
> life. I can almost always see the bright side and fail to account for what
> can go wrong.
A young person who thinks about death is merely romanticizing about it. An
older person who thinks about death is face to face with the Grim Reaper -
and there is nothing romantic about it in the slightest. Trust me on this!
>> PS. I do not think Jeff will ever be eligible for my Order of the
>> Perpetual Sorrows. He is just too god damn cheerful!
>
> That's ok, Ed. I wasn't looking to join an order. There's far too many of
> them already if you ask me. It is all these orders that is responsible for
> all the disorder. That's my opinion.
>
>> PS2. There are no more wretched creatures in this world than fallen away
>> Roman Catholics. Aye, keep the Faith, but easier said than done!
>
> I think that Christians should keep the faith. But I think that they
> should follow Jesus not worship him. He never considered himself anything
> other than a somewhat enlightened Rabbi. I would love to be able to read
> and understand that bible in its original language without King James or
> anyone else to tell me what it says. I don't actually ever plan to make
> the effort, however. I'd bet that Jesus wasn't claiming anything that he
> didn't feel was available to everyone.
Jeff, I am on the same page as you here, but let me assure you that you do
not understand Christians at all. They truly believe what they believe.
I would not want to live in a world where there were no believing Jews. They
have a tendency to keep us Christians from going bonkers in our beliefs.
However, I give you the Muslims for the absolute insanity in the realm of
religion.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 05:40:27
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
> Jeff, I am on the same page as you here, but let me assure you that you do
> not understand Christians at all. They truly believe what they believe.
>
I understand completely. This is why I advocate behavior over belief. I feel
it is less important to believe than it is to behave. But lets face it, most
believers only believe what they want to believe or what they have been
taught to believe. How many Christians do you think really believe the
following? (You could make that question 11)
1. What punishment did God say is mandatory for an unruly child?
Correct answer: D. (Stoning To Death) "And they shall say unto the elders of
his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our
voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall
stone him with stones, that he die" (Deuteronomy 21:20-21). "For Moses
said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother,
let him die the death" (Mark 7:10). "And he that smiteth his father, or his
mother, shall be surely put to death" (Exodus 21:15). "And he that curseth
his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death (Exodus 21:17)."
2. What is God's punishment for women who wear showy jewelry and clothing?
Correct answer: C. (Ugliness, misery and death) "In that day the Lord will
take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and
their cauls, and their round tires like the moon. The chains, and the
bracelets, and the mufflers, The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and
the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, The rings, and nose
jewels. The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples,
and the crisping pins, The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and
the vails. And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there
shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair
baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning
instead of beauty. Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy might in the
war. And her gates shall lament and mourn: and she being desolate shall sit
upon the ground" (Isaiah 3:17-26).
3. What is God's punishment of those who overeat?
Correct answer: B. (Death by plague) "And the people stood up all that day,
and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the quails: he
that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread them all abroad for
themselves round about the camp. And while the flesh was yet between their
teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the
people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague" (Numbers
11:32-33). "The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them,
and smote down the chosen men of Israel" (Psalms 78:31).
4. What did Jesus say happens to those who have premarital sex?
Correct answer: C. (They cannot enter Heaven so they must wind up in Hell)
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be
not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the
kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
5. What is the punishment for a single mother having a boy out of wedlock?
Correct answer: D. (The woman may not be punished but the child and his
descendants will go straight to Hell) "A bastard shall not enter into the
congregation of the Lord: even to his tenth generation shall he not enter
into the congregation of the Lord" (Deuteronomy 23:2).
6. What has God done in the past to children who make fun of unattractive
people?
Correct answer: D. (He sent bears to maul the children to death) "And he
went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there
came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto
him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and
looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came
forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of
them" (2 Kings 2:23-24).
7. What punishment did God promise for promiscuous women?
Correct answer: B. (His followers will cut off their noses and ears, burn
them in fire, take away their children and strip them naked) "And I will set
my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they
shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the
sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be
devoured by the fire. They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and
take away thy fair jewels. Thus will I make thy lewdness to cease from
thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that thou shalt
not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more" (Ezekiel
23:25-27). "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by
playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire
(Leviticus 21:9)."
8. What does God demand happen to those couples who have sex during the
woman's time of the month?
Correct answer: C. (They are to be banished from society and not permitted
to interact with civilized people) "And if a man shall lie with a woman
having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her
fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them
shall be cut off from among their people." Leviticus 20:18.
9. What punishment does God mandate for a man who rapes a virgin?
Correct Answer: D. (The rapist and his victim shall be married) "If a man
finds a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on
her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her
shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall
be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his
days Deuteronomy 22:28-29)."
10. What did Jesus do to those who failed to sell all their possessions and
give every dime to the Lord?
Correct Answer: C. (Jesus struck them dead) "But a certain man named
Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of
the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and
laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan
filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the
price of the land? . . . And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave
up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. . . .
Then fell [Sapphira] straightway at [Peter's] feet, and yielded up the
ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her
forth, buried her by her husband." Acts 5:1-10.
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 05:16:58
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:139jqsn967qjmb6@news.supernews.com...
Edward Dolan wrote:
>> Jeff, I am on the same page as you here, but let me assure you that you
>> do not understand Christians at all. They truly believe what they
>> believe.
>>
>
> I understand completely. This is why I advocate behavior over belief. I
> feel it is less important to believe than it is to behave. But lets face
> it, most believers only believe what they want to believe or what they
> have been taught to believe. How many Christians do you think really
> believe the following? (You could make that question 11)
Roman Catholics do not take the Bible literally. Everything we know is
mediated through the Church. Very strange to me that you do not know this!
> 1. What punishment did God say is mandatory for an unruly child?
>
> Correct answer: D. (Stoning To Death) "And they shall say unto the elders
> of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our
> voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall
> stone him with stones, that he die" (Deuteronomy 21:20-21). "For Moses
> said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or
> mother, let him die the death" (Mark 7:10). "And he that smiteth his
> father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death" (Exodus 21:15). "And
> he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death
> (Exodus 21:17)."
>
>
> 2. What is God's punishment for women who wear showy jewelry and
> clothing?
>
> Correct answer: C. (Ugliness, misery and death) "In that day the Lord will
> take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and
> their cauls, and their round tires like the moon. The chains, and the
> bracelets, and the mufflers, The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs,
> and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, The rings, and nose
> jewels. The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the
> wimples, and the crisping pins, The glasses, and the fine linen, and the
> hoods, and the vails. And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet
> smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of
> well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth;
> and burning instead of beauty. Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy
> might in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn: and she being
> desolate shall sit upon the ground" (Isaiah 3:17-26).
>
>
> 3. What is God's punishment of those who overeat?
>
> Correct answer: B. (Death by plague) "And the people stood up all that
> day, and all that night, and all the next day, and they gathered the
> quails: he that gathered least gathered ten homers: and they spread them
> all abroad for themselves round about the camp. And while the flesh was
> yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was
> kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very
> great plague" (Numbers 11:32-33). "The wrath of God came upon them, and
> slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel" (Psalms
> 78:31).
>
>
> 4. What did Jesus say happens to those who have premarital sex?
>
> Correct answer: C. (They cannot enter Heaven so they must wind up in
> Hell) "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of
> God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
> nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor
> covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the
> kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
>
>
> 5. What is the punishment for a single mother having a boy out of
> wedlock?
>
> Correct answer: D. (The woman may not be punished but the child and his
> descendants will go straight to Hell) "A bastard shall not enter into the
> congregation of the Lord: even to his tenth generation shall he not enter
> into the congregation of the Lord" (Deuteronomy 23:2).
>
>
> 6. What has God done in the past to children who make fun of unattractive
> people?
>
> Correct answer: D. (He sent bears to maul the children to death) "And he
> went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there
> came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto
> him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back,
> and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there
> came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children
> of them" (2 Kings 2:23-24).
>
>
> 7. What punishment did God promise for promiscuous women?
>
> Correct answer: B. (His followers will cut off their noses and ears, burn
> them in fire, take away their children and strip them naked) "And I will
> set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee:
> they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall
> by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue
> shall be devoured by the fire. They shall also strip thee out of thy
> clothes, and take away thy fair jewels. Thus will I make thy lewdness to
> cease from thee, and thy whoredom brought from the land of Egypt: so that
> thou shalt not lift up thine eyes unto them, nor remember Egypt any more"
> (Ezekiel 23:25-27). "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane
> herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt
> with fire (Leviticus 21:9)."
>
>
> 8. What does God demand happen to those couples who have sex during the
> woman's time of the month?
>
> Correct answer: C. (They are to be banished from society and not
> permitted to interact with civilized people) "And if a man shall lie with
> a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath
> discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood:
> and both of them shall be cut off from among their people." Leviticus
> 20:18.
>
>
> 9. What punishment does God mandate for a man who rapes a virgin?
>
> Correct Answer: D. (The rapist and his victim shall be married) "If a man
> finds a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on
> her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her
> shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall
> be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his
> days Deuteronomy 22:28-29)."
>
>
> 10. What did Jesus do to those who failed to sell all their possessions
> and give every dime to the Lord?
>
> Correct Answer: C. (Jesus struck them dead) "But a certain man named
> Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of
> the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part,
> and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath
> Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part
> of the price of the land? . . . And Ananias hearing these words fell down,
> and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these
> things. . . . Then fell [Sapphira] straightway at [Peter's] feet, and
> yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and,
> carrying her forth, buried her by her husband." Acts 5:1-10.
All of the above will not be read by anyone on this newsgroup, nor will it
be read by me. Jeff Grippe, who I am given to understand is NOT a believing
Jew, is nevertheless a true Jew who will quote his scriptures at the drop of
a hat - which no one in the rest of the world is interested in. It is the
major failing of the Jew to think that his ancient scripture has anything to
say to us today.
I think it is better to be a fallen away Roman Catholic like me than to be a
fallen away Jew like Jeff Grippe. We fallen away Catholics are not stupid
enough to think anyone cares about our former childish beliefs.
Best Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Jul 2007 10:20:01
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:BNudncXvkN-BaQTbnZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
> Roman Catholics do not take the Bible literally. Everything we know is
> mediated through the Church. Very strange to me that you do not know this!
>
I do know that. It is the entire problem.
> I think it is better to be a fallen away Roman Catholic like me than to be
> a fallen away Jew like Jeff Grippe. We fallen away Catholics are not
> stupid enough to think anyone cares about our former childish beliefs.
Now as for me, as I've told you in the past, I teach Sunday School. I belong
to the Ethical Culture Society. It was founded by a rabinical student who
decided that teaching deeds and good works were more important than teaching
religious beliefs.
As an athiest, I do not believe in anything supernatural. As a humanist, I
have respect for all other beliefs as long as they are non-violent and
moderate.
I believe (and I acknowledge that I could be wrong) that the Muslim
terrorists are a small segment of the Muslim population. While they need to
be fought, war is the wrong way to do it. They are simply taking literal
messages from their religious works and acting them out just as fanatic Jews
and Christians have done at times.
Ed, you do stir up the soup and get people to think but you are fighting
ignorance with ignorance and that is just as stupid as having a war to bring
peace.
Since you are an intelligent man and since you are closing in on your 10,000
message milestone, maybe you want to think about what those messages add up
to.
Or you can insult me again. Your choice. WWEDD?
Go in Peace Ed,
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2007 06:29:12
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:139kb8sss33rcab@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:BNudncXvkN-BaQTbnZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> Roman Catholics do not take the Bible literally. Everything we know is
>> mediated through the Church. Very strange to me that you do not know
>> this!
>>
>
> I do know that. It is the entire problem.
You do not want individuals reading the Bible and coming to their own
conclusions. That way lies madness.
>> I think it is better to be a fallen away Roman Catholic like me than to
>> be a fallen away Jew like Jeff Grippe. We fallen away Catholics are not
>> stupid enough to think anyone cares about our former childish beliefs.
>
> Now as for me, as I've told you in the past, I teach Sunday School. I
> belong to the Ethical Culture Society. It was founded by a rabinical
> student who decided that teaching deeds and good works were more important
> than teaching religious beliefs.
Very difficult to ever sperate the two. Morality without religion is never
trustworthy. It leads to all kinds of conundrums.
> As an athiest, I do not believe in anything supernatural. As a humanist, I
> have respect for all other beliefs as long as they are non-violent and
> moderate.
The above statement will get you into all kinds of trouble everywhere in the
world. You wouldn't last a day in the Middle East.
> I believe (and I acknowledge that I could be wrong) that the Muslim
> terrorists are a small segment of the Muslim population. While they need
> to be fought, war is the wrong way to do it. They are simply taking
> literal messages from their religious works and acting them out just as
> fanatic Jews and Christians have done at times.
The Muslim religion is more a culture than anything else, and it is a
culture which is at war with the West. In any event, in these times of
weapons of mass destruction, we cannot afford to cut them any slack. We need
to kill them before they kill us.
> Ed, you do stir up the soup and get people to think but you are fighting
> ignorance with ignorance and that is just as stupid as having a war to
> bring peace.
I am NOT an idealist like so many liberals are. That is the chief difference
between you and me.
> Since you are an intelligent man and since you are closing in on your
> 10,000 message milestone, maybe you want to think about what those
> messages add up to.
It adds up to having a lot of fun with very ordinary folks who are
essentially ignorant on most everything.
[...]
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2007 05:51:17
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:v7mdnen0K6qS1gLbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:139kb8sss33rcab@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>> news:BNudncXvkN-BaQTbnZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>>
>>> Roman Catholics do not take the Bible literally. Everything we know is
>>> mediated through the Church. Very strange to me that you do not know
>>> this!
>>>
>>
>> I do know that. It is the entire problem.
>
> You do not want individuals reading the Bible and coming to their own
> conclusions. That way lies madness.
>
Stop agreeing with me dammit!
>>> I think it is better to be a fallen away Roman Catholic like me than to
>>> be a fallen away Jew like Jeff Grippe. We fallen away Catholics are not
>>> stupid enough to think anyone cares about our former childish beliefs.
>>
>> Now as for me, as I've told you in the past, I teach Sunday School. I
>> belong to the Ethical Culture Society. It was founded by a rabinical
>> student who decided that teaching deeds and good works were more
>> important than teaching religious beliefs.
>
> Very difficult to ever sperate the two. Morality without religion is never
> trustworthy. It leads to all kinds of conundrums.
Religion is not the source of morality. We do not live by Christian morals,
or Jewish morals in this day and age. I posted that list of biblically
prescribed punishments (that you said you were declining to read). We pick
and choose from scripture to fit what we innately understand as moral. Then,
many religious types pretend that they are doing what scripture says when
they are actually behaving in a way that conforms with basic human ethics.
>> As an athiest, I do not believe in anything supernatural. As a humanist,
>> I have respect for all other beliefs as long as they are non-violent and
>> moderate.
>
> The above statement will get you into all kinds of trouble everywhere in
> the world. You wouldn't last a day in the Middle East.
You are right here. In many Muslim countries these thoughts would be
punishable by death. I don't live in the Middle East, however.
>> I believe (and I acknowledge that I could be wrong) that the Muslim
>> terrorists are a small segment of the Muslim population. While they need
>> to be fought, war is the wrong way to do it. They are simply taking
>> literal messages from their religious works and acting them out just as
>> fanatic Jews and Christians have done at times.
>
> The Muslim religion is more a culture than anything else, and it is a
> culture which is at war with the West. In any event, in these times of
> weapons of mass destruction, we cannot afford to cut them any slack. We
> need to kill them before they kill us.
>
It is a war of ideas. Ideas can be modified and changed but they can not be
killed. You will never be able to wipe out a culture. It isn't worth trying.
When you try, you simply strengthen the idea and embolden its followers.
>> Ed, you do stir up the soup and get people to think but you are fighting
>> ignorance with ignorance and that is just as stupid as having a war to
>> bring peace.
>
> I am NOT an idealist like so many liberals are. That is the chief
> difference between you and me.
>
It certainly is a big difference. I don't want to give up my idealism or my
optimism and so I remain as I am.
>> Since you are an intelligent man and since you are closing in on your
>> 10,000 message milestone, maybe you want to think about what those
>> messages add up to.
>
> It adds up to having a lot of fun with very ordinary folks who are
> essentially ignorant on most everything.
Yes but we really shouldn't be doing it here where the cyclists want to talk
about cycling. It's one thing to do it as a thread now and again but you go
way beyond that. This is all old ground, however, that we've been over many
times before.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2007 12:50:22
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13a11e3qud81nb1@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:v7mdnen0K6qS1gLbnZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
[...]
>> Very difficult to ever sperate the two. Morality without religion is
>> never trustworthy. It leads to all kinds of conundrums.
>
> Religion is not the source of morality. We do not live by Christian
> morals, or Jewish morals in this day and age. I posted that list of
> biblically prescribed punishments (that you said you were declining to
> read). We pick and choose from scripture to fit what we innately
> understand as moral. Then, many religious types pretend that they are
> doing what scripture says when they are actually behaving in a way that
> conforms with basic human ethics.
You should not be picking and choosing anything from scripture if you are
not a believer. I never do that myself. Ideally, you ought to be basing any
appeal to morality strictly on humanistic, secular and scientific terms
unconnected to religion. If you can't do this, then you are being
hypocritical.
The fact remains that for the mass of men morality and religion go hand in
hand. In fact, it is the one and only thing I like about any religion. It is
only certain religions, i.e. Muslims, where morality goes off the tracks.
That is because it was and is the religion of the primitive Arab tribes of
the Arabian Peninsula and should never have been exported from beyond that
benighted region of the earth.
>>> As an athiest, I do not believe in anything supernatural. As a humanist,
>>> I have respect for all other beliefs as long as they are non-violent and
>>> moderate.
>>
>> The above statement will get you into all kinds of trouble everywhere in
>> the world. You wouldn't last a day in the Middle East.
>
> You are right here. In many Muslim countries these thoughts would be
> punishable by death. I don't live in the Middle East, however.
But you need to know your enemy. I assure you Jeff, if they could, they
would kill you without a moments hesitation. What do you propose to do about
that - other than preach pieties?
>>> I believe (and I acknowledge that I could be wrong) that the Muslim
>>> terrorists are a small segment of the Muslim population. While they need
>>> to be fought, war is the wrong way to do it. They are simply taking
>>> literal messages from their religious works and acting them out just as
>>> fanatic Jews and Christians have done at times.
>>
>> The Muslim religion is more a culture than anything else, and it is a
>> culture which is at war with the West. In any event, in these times of
>> weapons of mass destruction, we cannot afford to cut them any slack. We
>> need to kill them before they kill us.
>>
>
> It is a war of ideas. Ideas can be modified and changed but they can not
> be killed. You will never be able to wipe out a culture. It isn't worth
> trying. When you try, you simply strengthen the idea and embolden its
> followers.
The ideas of the Muslim Jihadists with respect to the West are based solely
on their abominable religion. It why wars of religion have always been so
terrible. Frankly, I am very glad that there is a strong religious element
left in Israel (the Orthodox Jews). They may very well need that in the end
in order to survive.
>>> Ed, you do stir up the soup and get people to think but you are fighting
>>> ignorance with ignorance and that is just as stupid as having a war to
>>> bring peace.
>>
>> I am NOT an idealist like so many liberals are. That is the chief
>> difference between you and me.
>>
>
> It certainly is a big difference. I don't want to give up my idealism or
> my optimism and so I remain as I am.
If you were ever to immerse yourself in the study of history you would soon
become convinced at what makes the world go around - and it is NOT idealism!
>>> Since you are an intelligent man and since you are closing in on your
>>> 10,000 message milestone, maybe you want to think about what those
>>> messages add up to.
>>
>> It adds up to having a lot of fun with very ordinary folks who are
>> essentially ignorant on most everything.
>
> Yes but we really shouldn't be doing it here where the cyclists want to
> talk about cycling. It's one thing to do it as a thread now and again but
> you go way beyond that. This is all old ground, however, that we've been
> over many times before.
Yes, I am strictly a side dish on these cycling newsgroups. My only appeal
will be to an intellectual elite. However, it does not hurt a newsgroup to
have an off-topic genius living among them. Surely, it must get extremely
boring to read nothing but cycling related topics.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2007 18:30:23
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:u72dnf5vV5h6aD3bnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> Yes, I am strictly a side dish on these cycling newsgroups. My only appeal
> will be to an intellectual elite. However, it does not hurt a newsgroup to
> have an off-topic genius living among them. Surely, it must get extremely
> boring to read nothing but cycling related topics.
Sure it hurts them. They don't want it and yet they are in no position to
get you to stop given the nature of the beast. If they wanted politics
they'd go to a politics group and post there. Cyclists go to cycling
newsgroups to read about cycling. If it were boring then there wouldn't be
any cycling newsgroups. The fact that there are so many is proof that many
people do not find it boring. I haven't seen anyone post a message yet that
says "Thank god all this political discussion has saved us from the boring
cycling talk."
Cyclists are interested in politics to the degree that it relates to cycling
such as helmet laws, driving laws, etc. Some of us, such as me, are willing
to dive into your silly little world but most of the cyclists would prefer
to limit the talk to cycling.
> You should not be picking and choosing anything from scripture if you are
> not a believer. I never do that myself. Ideally, you ought to be basing
> any appeal to morality strictly on humanistic, secular and scientific
> terms unconnected to religion. If you can't do this, then you are being
> hypocritical.
>
> The fact remains that for the mass of men morality and religion go hand in
> hand. In fact, it is the one and only thing I like about any religion.
Its a nice thought, Ed. If only it were true I'd probably be religious
myself. But the reality is that people with power have always felt free to
make their own rules. Apparently they aren't scared by god.
> But you need to know your enemy. I assure you Jeff, if they could, they
> would kill you without a moments hesitation. What do you propose to do
> about that - other than preach pieties?
What can I do? Kill them first? I don't think so. It won't work. It is not
people but rather an idea that we are fighting. You can't kill ideas with
guns.
> The ideas of the Muslim Jihadists with respect to the West are based
> solely on their abominable religion. It why wars of religion have always
> been so terrible. Frankly, I am very glad that there is a strong religious
> element left in Israel (the Orthodox Jews). They may very well need that
> in the end in order to survive.
Nope. They are going to have to work out terms for peace. That does not mean
agreement. It mean you go your way and I go mine. Kind of like what you and
I have done.
> If you were ever to immerse yourself in the study of history you would
> soon become convinced at what makes the world go around - and it is NOT
> idealism!
>
You have no credentials to recommend study to anyone when you won't study
yourself. Whatever you've learned has become warped by your opinions. This
is not bad. It happens to all of us but you refuse to let in anything new.
That's not good.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 22 Jul 2007 20:44:21
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13a2dtetdd70p9d@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:u72dnf5vV5h6aD3bnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
>> Yes, I am strictly a side dish on these cycling newsgroups. My only
>> appeal will be to an intellectual elite. However, it does not hurt a
>> newsgroup to have an off-topic genius living among them. Surely, it must
>> get extremely boring to read nothing but cycling related topics.
>
>
> Sure it hurts them. They don't want it and yet they are in no position to
> get you to stop given the nature of the beast. If they wanted politics
> they'd go to a politics group and post there. Cyclists go to cycling
> newsgroups to read about cycling. If it were boring then there wouldn't be
> any cycling newsgroups. The fact that there are so many is proof that many
> people do not find it boring. I haven't seen anyone post a message yet
> that says "Thank god all this political discussion has saved us from the
> boring cycling talk."
The kind of folks who post to cycling newsgroups are all idiots. You prove
that every time you post a message. I know what is good for them better than
they do themselves.
> Cyclists are interested in politics to the degree that it relates to
> cycling such as helmet laws, driving laws, etc. Some of us, such as me,
> are willing to dive into your silly little world but most of the cyclists
> would prefer to limit the talk to cycling.
Cyclists deserve something other than idiotic messages which relate solely
to the nuts and bolts of cycling. Frankly, I can't see any reason for all
these freaking cycling newsgroups in the first place. For Christ's sakes,
what the hell is there to say about cycling anyway? Only someone as stupid
as Tom Sherman thinks the subject is at all important. That is because he is
an egomaniac who wants to impose his will on others. He should strive to be
a kind and gentle soul like me!
[...]
>> But you need to know your enemy. I assure you Jeff, if they could, they
>> would kill you without a moments hesitation. What do you propose to do
>> about that - other than preach pieties?
>
> What can I do? Kill them first? I don't think so. It won't work. It is not
> people but rather an idea that we are fighting. You can't kill ideas with
> guns.
You need to learn how to vote for politicians who know their ass from a hole
in the ground. But you are a god damn liberal who votes for Democrats, just
like all your tribe. How American secular Jews ever got to be so stupid is
one for the books.
[...]
>> If you were ever to immerse yourself in the study of history you would
>> soon become convinced at what makes the world go around - and it is NOT
>> idealism!
>
> You have no credentials to recommend study to anyone when you won't study
> yourself. Whatever you've learned has become warped by your opinions. This
> is not bad. It happens to all of us but you refuse to let in anything new.
> That's not good.
Take your idealism and stuff it up your ass! You are too ignorant for me to
bother with.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 24 Jul 2007 05:46:27
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
Eddie, Eddie, Eddie.
You knock me out!
Your favorite idiotic top poster,
Jeff
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:xI6dnW_C_vqclTnbnZ2dnUVZ_r2nnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13a2dtetdd70p9d@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>> news:u72dnf5vV5h6aD3bnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>
>>> Yes, I am strictly a side dish on these cycling newsgroups. My only
>>> appeal will be to an intellectual elite. However, it does not hurt a
>>> newsgroup to have an off-topic genius living among them. Surely, it must
>>> get extremely boring to read nothing but cycling related topics.
>>
>>
>> Sure it hurts them. They don't want it and yet they are in no position to
>> get you to stop given the nature of the beast. If they wanted politics
>> they'd go to a politics group and post there. Cyclists go to cycling
>> newsgroups to read about cycling. If it were boring then there wouldn't
>> be any cycling newsgroups. The fact that there are so many is proof that
>> many people do not find it boring. I haven't seen anyone post a message
>> yet that says "Thank god all this political discussion has saved us from
>> the boring cycling talk."
>
> The kind of folks who post to cycling newsgroups are all idiots. You prove
> that every time you post a message. I know what is good for them better
> than they do themselves.
>
>> Cyclists are interested in politics to the degree that it relates to
>> cycling such as helmet laws, driving laws, etc. Some of us, such as me,
>> are willing to dive into your silly little world but most of the cyclists
>> would prefer to limit the talk to cycling.
>
> Cyclists deserve something other than idiotic messages which relate solely
> to the nuts and bolts of cycling. Frankly, I can't see any reason for all
> these freaking cycling newsgroups in the first place. For Christ's sakes,
> what the hell is there to say about cycling anyway? Only someone as stupid
> as Tom Sherman thinks the subject is at all important. That is because he
> is an egomaniac who wants to impose his will on others. He should strive
> to be a kind and gentle soul like me!
> [...]
>
>>> But you need to know your enemy. I assure you Jeff, if they could, they
>>> would kill you without a moments hesitation. What do you propose to do
>>> about that - other than preach pieties?
>>
>> What can I do? Kill them first? I don't think so. It won't work. It is
>> not people but rather an idea that we are fighting. You can't kill ideas
>> with guns.
>
> You need to learn how to vote for politicians who know their ass from a
> hole in the ground. But you are a god damn liberal who votes for
> Democrats, just like all your tribe. How American secular Jews ever got to
> be so stupid is one for the books.
> [...]
>
>>> If you were ever to immerse yourself in the study of history you would
>>> soon become convinced at what makes the world go around - and it is NOT
>>> idealism!
>>
>> You have no credentials to recommend study to anyone when you won't study
>> yourself. Whatever you've learned has become warped by your opinions.
>> This is not bad. It happens to all of us but you refuse to let in
>> anything new. That's not good.
>
> Take your idealism and stuff it up your ass! You are too ignorant for me
> to bother with.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Jul 2007 03:18:47
From: T. Ling Yu
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in
news:JOqdnQ6KafY4GBDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@prairiewave.com:
> We are all dying each and every day a little and there is never any
> point in rushing the process. But some are so stupid as to not even be
> aware of the process.
>
> I now know more dead folks that I do live folks. This is an indication
> that I shall soon join that majority myself.
>
> Beware of the witching hour of 4:00 AM. That is the time of the Grim
> Reaper.
"just a little alcohol gets me high" - Ed
|
| |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 05:48:41
From: JimmyMac
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
Ed,
Yes, I'm directly addressing you personally and yes, I have top
posted so you don't miss it and yes, I have cross-posted so no one
else does either ... object if you must. If this is a suicide note,
then waste not another moment . Get on with it.
Jim McNamara
On Jul 2, 3:58 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net > wrote:
> Let us say you are from Mars and you are confronted with Christianity on
> Earth. The very first thing you will note about it is how crazy it is. But
> any and all other religions are equally crazy, if not more so.
>
> Now let us say that you stumble upon this Ohio graveyard and encounter this
> inscription on a headstone:
>
> "Once I wasn't, Then I was, Now I ain't again."
>
> Aye, now we are getting somewhere. But the above is too stark. There is not
> one person in a thousand who can appreciate it. So instead we turn to our
> poets of death and despondency to enlighten us further:
>
> T.S. Eliot (1888-1965). Prufrock and Other Observations. 1917.
>
> 1. The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
>
> S'io credesse che mia risposta fosse
> A persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
> Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
> Ma perciocche giammai di questo fondo
> Non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero,
> Senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo.
>
> LET us go then, you and I,
> When the evening is spread out against the sky
> Like a patient etherised upon a table;
> Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
> The muttering retreats 5
> Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
> And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
> Streets that follow like a tedious argument
> Of insidious intent
> To lead you to an overwhelming question . 10
> Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
> Let us go and make our visit.
>
> In the room the women come and go
> Talking of Michelangelo.
>
> The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes, 15
> The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes
> Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
> Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
> Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
> Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap, 20
> And seeing that it was a soft October night,
> Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.
>
> And indeed there will be time
> For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
> Rubbing its back upon the window-panes; 25
> There will be time, there will be time
> To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
> There will be time to murder and create,
> And time for all the works and days of hands
> That lift and drop a question on your plate; 30
> Time for you and time for me,
> And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
> And for a hundred visions and revisions,
> Before the taking of a toast and tea.
>
> In the room the women come and go 35
> Talking of Michelangelo.
>
> And indeed there will be time
> To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?"
> Time to turn back and descend the stair,
> With a bald spot in the middle of my hair- 40
> [They will say: "How his hair is growing thin!"]
> My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
> My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin-
> [They will say: "But how his arms and legs are thin!"]
> Do I dare 45
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
>
> For I have known them all already, known them all:-
> Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons, 50
> I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
> I know the voices dying with a dying fall
> Beneath the music from a farther room.
> So how should I presume?
>
> And I have known the eyes already, known them all- 55
> The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
> And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
> When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
> Then how should I begin
> To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways? 60
> And how should I presume?
>
> And I have known the arms already, known them all-
> Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
> [But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!]
> It is perfume from a dress 65
> That makes me so digress?
> Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
> And should I then presume?
> And how should I begin?
> . . . . .
> Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets 70
> And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
> Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows?.
>
> I should have been a pair of ragged claws
> Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
> . . . . .
> And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully! 75
> Smoothed by long fingers,
> Asleep . tired . or it malingers,
> Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
> Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
> Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis? 80
> But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
> Though I have seen my head [grown slightly bald] brought in upon a platter,
> I am no prophet-and here's no great matter;
> I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
> And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, 85
> And in short, I was afraid.
>
> And would it have been worth it, after all,
> After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
> Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
> Would it have been worth while, 90
> To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
> To have squeezed the universe into a ball
> To roll it toward some overwhelming question,
> To say: "I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
> Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all"- 95
> If one, settling a pillow by her head,
> Should say: "That is not what I meant at all.
> That is not it, at all."
>
> And would it have been worth it, after all,
> Would it have been worth while, 100
> After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
> After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the
> floor-
> And this, and so much more?-
> It is impossible to say just what I mean!
> But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
> 105
> Would it have been worth while
> If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
> And turning toward the window, should say:
> "That is not it at all,
> That is not what I meant, at all."
> . . . . . 110
> No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
> Am an attendant lord, one that will do
> To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
> Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
> Deferential, glad to be of use, 115
> Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
> Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
> At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-
> Almost, at times, the Fool.
>
> I grow old . I grow old . 120
> I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
>
> Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
> I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
> I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
>
> I do not think that they will sing to me. 125
>
> I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
> Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
> When the wind blows the water white and black.
>
> We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
> By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown 130
> Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
>
> Hey, welcome to my world. Aye, dying and death is all about us every moment
> of every day. But it is only at the wee hours of the night that we can ever
> experience full despondency. The most dreaded hour is 4:00 AM. Ah, what a
> perfect time to die.
>
> There is no solace anywhere in the universe. That is because the universe is
> pitiless. It only IS, just like we are. Until it ISN'T, just like we are.
> Let us all praise motherly death. Ah, extinction and oblivion, an end
> devoutly to be wished for.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 02 Jul 2007 18:52:40
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
Jim,
You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He just
likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave the
groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir up
the soup. Big Deal!
Jeff
"JimmyMac" <jimmymac_4@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1183380521.160494.317190@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Ed,
>
> Yes, I'm directly addressing you personally and yes, I have top
> posted so you don't miss it and yes, I have cross-posted so no one
> else does either ... object if you must. If this is a suicide note,
> then waste not another moment . Get on with it.
>
> Jim McNamara
>
> On Jul 2, 3:58 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>> Let us say you are from Mars and you are confronted with Christianity on
>> Earth. The very first thing you will note about it is how crazy it is.
>> But
>> any and all other religions are equally crazy, if not more so.
>>
>> Now let us say that you stumble upon this Ohio graveyard and encounter
>> this
>> inscription on a headstone:
>>
>> "Once I wasn't, Then I was, Now I ain't again."
>>
>> Aye, now we are getting somewhere. But the above is too stark. There is
>> not
>> one person in a thousand who can appreciate it. So instead we turn to our
>> poets of death and despondency to enlighten us further:
>>
>> T.S. Eliot (1888-1965). Prufrock and Other Observations. 1917.
>>
>> 1. The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
>>
>> S'io credesse che mia risposta fosse
>> A persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
>> Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
>> Ma perciocche giammai di questo fondo
>> Non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero,
>> Senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo.
>>
>> LET us go then, you and I,
>> When the evening is spread out against the sky
>> Like a patient etherised upon a table;
>> Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
>> The muttering retreats 5
>> Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
>> And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
>> Streets that follow like a tedious argument
>> Of insidious intent
>> To lead you to an overwhelming question . 10
>> Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
>> Let us go and make our visit.
>>
>> In the room the women come and go
>> Talking of Michelangelo.
>>
>> The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes, 15
>> The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes
>> Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
>> Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
>> Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
>> Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap, 20
>> And seeing that it was a soft October night,
>> Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.
>>
>> And indeed there will be time
>> For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
>> Rubbing its back upon the window-panes; 25
>> There will be time, there will be time
>> To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
>> There will be time to murder and create,
>> And time for all the works and days of hands
>> That lift and drop a question on your plate; 30
>> Time for you and time for me,
>> And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
>> And for a hundred visions and revisions,
>> Before the taking of a toast and tea.
>>
>> In the room the women come and go 35
>> Talking of Michelangelo.
>>
>> And indeed there will be time
>> To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?"
>> Time to turn back and descend the stair,
>> With a bald spot in the middle of my hair- 40
>> [They will say: "How his hair is growing thin!"]
>> My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
>> My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin-
>> [They will say: "But how his arms and legs are thin!"]
>> Do I dare 45
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
>>
>> For I have known them all already, known them all:-
>> Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons, 50
>> I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
>> I know the voices dying with a dying fall
>> Beneath the music from a farther room.
>> So how should I presume?
>>
>> And I have known the eyes already, known them all- 55
>> The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
>> And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
>> When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
>> Then how should I begin
>> To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways? 60
>> And how should I presume?
>>
>> And I have known the arms already, known them all-
>> Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
>> [But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!]
>> It is perfume from a dress 65
>> That makes me so digress?
>> Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
>> And should I then presume?
>> And how should I begin?
>> . . . . .
>> Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets 70
>> And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
>> Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows?.
>>
>> I should have been a pair of ragged claws
>> Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.
>> . . . . .
>> And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully! 75
>> Smoothed by long fingers,
>> Asleep . tired . or it malingers,
>> Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
>> Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
>> Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis? 80
>> But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
>> Though I have seen my head [grown slightly bald] brought in upon a
>> platter,
>> I am no prophet-and here's no great matter;
>> I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
>> And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker, 85
>> And in short, I was afraid.
>>
>> And would it have been worth it, after all,
>> After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
>> Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
>> Would it have been worth while, 90
>> To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
>> To have squeezed the universe into a ball
>> To roll it toward some overwhelming question,
>> To say: "I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
>> Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all"- 95
>> If one, settling a pillow by her head,
>> Should say: "That is not what I meant at all.
>> That is not it, at all."
>>
>> And would it have been worth it, after all,
>> Would it have been worth while, 100
>> After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
>> After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along
>> the
>> floor-
>> And this, and so much more?-
>> It is impossible to say just what I mean!
>> But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
>> 105
>> Would it have been worth while
>> If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
>> And turning toward the window, should say:
>> "That is not it at all,
>> That is not what I meant, at all."
>> . . . . . 110
>> No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
>> Am an attendant lord, one that will do
>> To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
>> Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
>> Deferential, glad to be of use, 115
>> Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
>> Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
>> At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-
>> Almost, at times, the Fool.
>>
>> I grow old . I grow old . 120
>> I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
>>
>> Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
>> I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
>> I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
>>
>> I do not think that they will sing to me. 125
>>
>> I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
>> Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
>> When the wind blows the water white and black.
>>
>> We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
>> By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown 130
>> Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
>>
>> Hey, welcome to my world. Aye, dying and death is all about us every
>> moment
>> of every day. But it is only at the wee hours of the night that we can
>> ever
>> experience full despondency. The most dreaded hour is 4:00 AM. Ah, what a
>> perfect time to die.
>>
>> There is no solace anywhere in the universe. That is because the universe
>> is
>> pitiless. It only IS, just like we are. Until it ISN'T, just like we are.
>> Let us all praise motherly death. Ah, extinction and oblivion, an end
>> devoutly to be wished for.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>> aka
>> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
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Date: 06 Jul 2007 14:08:52
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ed Dolan the Great and Some Night Thoughts
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:138j0ap9bktma64@news.supernews.com...
ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
> Jim,
>
> You don't really mean that! Sure ED is a pest but he is a fairly benign
> pest. He doesn't make decisions that really effect anyone's life. He just
> likes to hear (or see) himself talk. I'm sure you wish he would leave the
> groups alone but you don't really wish him death. ED just likes to stir up
> the soup. Big Deal!
>
> Jeff
Jeff Grippe, unlike Mr. McNamara, is not moved by spite. I have never met a
Jew in my life, even a smart ass New York Jew like Jeff, who did not have
many redeeming qualities. All Jews everywhere in the world have at least a
sense of humanity, something that Mr. McNamara sorely lacks.
Mr. McNamara is constituted of an unholy nature, half Polish and half Irish.
The only thing these two races have in common is their Roman Catholicism.
Other than that, it is a disaster of human commingling which Mr. McNamara
proves every time he posts to Usenet.
Does not Mr. McNamara know that I have no interest in him whatever. I am
only into Myself. He needs to study my signature more if he would ever get
wise.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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