Ever Ride in City Traffic?

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Date: 17 Jul 2005 17:33:54
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
picture myself in all kinds of situations.

How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Does it brake just like an upright?

Is it harder to go real slow?

Ever run red lights with them?

How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
and speed bumps?

Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

Date: 21 Jul 2005 16:55:39
From: S. Delaire \Rotatorrecumbent\
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

A small plug for my products:
I build titanium framed recumbents and have done a several with large diameter wheels
(ti frames for other brands also)
My preferred set up is dual 20" as the start up acceleration is noticeable
Can't argue with the ride quality of the large wheels though
Dual 20" with 54 speeds is 21 pounds
Dual 700 with 27 speeds is in the 25 - 26 pound range
Speedy

NYC XYZ wrote:

> Hey, cool!! Thanks, I'll drop him a line...after I make a trip over to
> The Bicycle Man in Alfred, New York!
>
> S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent" wrote:
> > I'll go out on a limb here and volunteer the name of a very nice gentleman
> > who runs a messenger service in downtown Manhattan that you could talk to
> > and possible test ride one of his several recumbents.
> > Shelly Mossy dogzndrumz@aol.com
> > I borrowed his EZ1 last August for the day
> > Any *head first* style vehicle is out of the question for this person no
> > matter what the reason.
> > LWB oss works well in the tight confines of NYC, SF, Seattle, L.A., Indy
> > and Portland
> > the only big cities I have had the chance to ride.
> > Speedy
> >
> > NYC XYZ wrote:
> >
> > > NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
> > > messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
> > > had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
> > > joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
> > > picture myself in all kinds of situations.
> > >
> > > How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?
> > >
> > > Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?
> > >
> > > Does it brake just like an upright?
> > >
> > > Is it harder to go real slow?
> > >
> > > Ever run red lights with them?
> > >
> > > How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> > > and speed bumps?
> > >
> > > Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> > > miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)
> > >
> > > And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??
> > >
> > > And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???
> >
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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> > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

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Date: 20 Jul 2005 07:32:56
From: zman
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

I have ridden extensively in Chicago. Fantastic city for cyclists.
Daley, for all his shortcomings, is a good friend to cyclists imo.
Aside from the numerous bike lanes that can get you anywhere in the
city N,S,E,W, you have the lakefront and a particular curiousity of the
"take back the streets" which occurs in 'the loop' (chicago's downtown)
the last friday of every month. cyclists gather at city hall and ride
thru the city, from centerline to curb, for good times and a subcurrent
of bicycle promotion. talk about safety in numbers!

Date: 20 Jul 2005 07:01:36
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Hey, cool!! Thanks, I'll drop him a line...after I make a trip over to
The Bicycle Man in Alfred, New York!

S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent" wrote:
> I'll go out on a limb here and volunteer the name of a very nice gentleman
> who runs a messenger service in downtown Manhattan that you could talk to
> and possible test ride one of his several recumbents.
> Shelly Mossy dogzndrumz@aol.com
> I borrowed his EZ1 last August for the day
> Any *head first* style vehicle is out of the question for this person no
> matter what the reason.
> LWB oss works well in the tight confines of NYC, SF, Seattle, L.A., Indy
> and Portland
> the only big cities I have had the chance to ride.
> Speedy
>
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> > NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
> > messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
> > had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
> > joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
> > picture myself in all kinds of situations.
> >
> > How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?
> >
> > Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?
> >
> > Does it brake just like an upright?
> >
> > Is it harder to go real slow?
> >
> > Ever run red lights with them?
> >
> > How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> > and speed bumps?
> >
> > Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> > miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)
> >
> > And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??
> >
> > And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Date: 20 Jul 2005 06:58:38
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Slugger wrote:
>
>
> There is a documentary called "Pedal" about the messengers in NYC. An
> odd group of people to be sure. (crackheads, one legged riders, jesus
> preachers) I recommend it to anyone that rides a bike. One fellow in
> the movie rides a BikeE for his messenger work.
> Some ride track bikes. Which to me seems completely crazy because these
> track bikes typically don't have brakes. So if you think riding a bent
> in NYC is crazy, there are far crazier bikers on the road than a bent
> rider.

Exactly! I love the world of bicycling 'cause it's such a colorful
cast of characters. I couldn't believe it when I saw the one-legged
rider (you mean there are more??)! Women messengers, too...and sexy,
the couple I saw!! Not the skinny-types, but real meat and potatoes
kind of ladies....

Yeah, so I was like, I've only seen one guy ride a 'bent in NYC
traffic, that I can recall...didn't seem to hard, how he was doing it
-- though he was going down the MIDDLE of 125th Street (Harlem)! This
was during afternoon rush hour...maybe he was an out-of-towner...fat
middle-aged white guy with beard....

Thanks for the ref. Real cool people on bikes. I love this crowd!
You know how motorists get into fisticuffs after an accident?
Bicyclists seem to check each other out, make sure the other fellow's
all right!

Date: 20 Jul 2005 16:09:16
From: Bill Patterson
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

We rode a century several years ago. A tandem team was a guy without a
right leg and a gal without a left leg. Quite a sight.

NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> Exactly! I love the world of bicycling 'cause it's such a colorful
> cast of characters. I couldn't believe it when I saw the one-legged
> rider (you mean there are more??)! Women messengers, too...and sexy,

--
Order Lords of the Chainring
http://www.calpoly.edu/~wpatters/lords.html

Or use pay pal

Reply to wm.patterson@earthlink.net
wpatters@calpoly.edu
william.patterson@1962.usna.com

Date: 20 Jul 2005 15:14:09
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

NYC XYZ wrote:

> Exactly! I love the world of bicycling 'cause it's such a colorful
> cast of characters. I couldn't believe it when I saw the one-legged
> rider (you mean there are more??)!

There was me last Tuesday, but that was only coz my left crank fell off...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ >
I'm just a primitive creature of the heath, so pardon my savage
ignorance.

Date: 19 Jul 2005 19:46:58
From:
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Edward Dolan wrote:
> <frkrygow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121816729.663587.297510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> >>
> >> We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.
> >
> > :-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
> > out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!
> >
> > In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.
> >
> > And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
> > running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> Sorry Frank, but if you belong to the same species as I do then you were
> designed for walking too. New York is just chock full of institutions of
> higher education. Find one and take a course in anthropology about how we
> humans evolved. Such a course is generally labeled Physical Anthropology
> 101.
>
> Walking is the human means of locomotion par excellence. It is only in the
> past few thousand years that humans have been able to invent other ways of
> getting around. However, our anatomy and physiology is the same as it has
> always been. It was and is designed for walking, not biking.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Gee, I see _some_ humans were designed without a sense of humor!

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 19 Jul 2005 22:48:53
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

<frkrygow@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121827617.970504.204390@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> <frkrygow@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1121816729.663587.297510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > Edward Dolan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.
>> >
>> > :-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
>> > out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!
>> >
>> > In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.
>> >
>> > And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
>> > running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!
>> >
>> > - Frank Krygowski
>>
>> Sorry Frank, but if you belong to the same species as I do then you were
>> designed for walking too. New York is just chock full of institutions of
>> higher education. Find one and take a course in anthropology about how we
>> humans evolved. Such a course is generally labeled Physical Anthropology
>> 101.
>>
>> Walking is the human means of locomotion par excellence. It is only in
>> the
>> past few thousand years that humans have been able to invent other ways
>> of
>> getting around. However, our anatomy and physiology is the same as it has
>> always been. It was and is designed for walking, not biking.
>>
>> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> Gee, I see _some_ humans were designed without a sense of humor!
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Actually, my reply was replete with loads of humor. But it takes
intelligence as well as a sense of humor to discover it. I am just not as
obvious as you are. Indirection and subtlety is the essence of humor for
intelligent types like myself.

But mainly, I like to win my arguments regardless of humor. I always see to
that first and foremost.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

PS. Since I am not getting any input from New Yorkers, I have deleted the
other newsgroups.

Date: 19 Jul 2005 16:45:29
From:
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

:-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!

In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.

And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!

- Frank Krygowski

Date: 19 Jul 2005 19:49:14
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

<frkrygow@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121816729.663587.297510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.
>
> :-) Oh, I doubt that! If we were designed for walking, we'd have run
> out of ingenuity after we invented shoes!
>
> In any case, I sure feel like _I_ was designed for biking.
>
> And as an aside, I've absolutely proven I was _not_ designed for
> running, swimming or (heaven forbid) golf!
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Sorry Frank, but if you belong to the same species as I do then you were
designed for walking too. New York is just chock full of institutions of
higher education. Find one and take a course in anthropology about how we
humans evolved. Such a course is generally labeled Physical Anthropology
101.

Walking is the human means of locomotion par excellence. It is only in the
past few thousand years that humans have been able to invent other ways of
getting around. However, our anatomy and physiology is the same as it has
always been. It was and is designed for walking, not biking.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Date: 18 Jul 2005 21:49:46
From: Slugger
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

In article <1121646833.984686.160490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com >, NYC
XYZ <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:

> NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
> messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
> had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
> joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
> picture myself in all kinds of situations.

There is a documentary called "Pedal" about the messengers in NYC. An
odd group of people to be sure. (crackheads, one legged riders, jesus
preachers) I recommend it to anyone that rides a bike. One fellow in
the movie rides a BikeE for his messenger work.
Some ride track bikes. Which to me seems completely crazy because these
track bikes typically don't have brakes. So if you think riding a bent
in NYC is crazy, there are far crazier bikers on the road than a bent
rider.

Date: 18 Jul 2005 21:47:30
From: Arnold Ligtvoet
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

NYC XYZ wrote:
> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

Standard issue bicycle chain. Almost nobody rides one, so it's much less
in demand than ATB's and racebikes.

> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Depends on traffic. Very dense city traffic : nope. Any other kind of
city traffic : yes.

> Does it brake just like an upright?

Roughly the same to better. Used to ride an ATB with v-brakes, now on a
Optima Baron with discbrakes. The only difference is that you tend to
drive the recumbent much faster.

> Is it harder to go real slow?

Nope and remember practise makes perfect ;-)

> Ever run red lights with them?

Almost every light I encounter on my daily commute.

> How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> and speed bumps?

Hmmm. My bike has no springs whatsoever, so in my case real steep bumps
cause me to slow down. Normal speedbumps are no problem.

> Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

Nope.

> And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

Nope.

> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

So are uprights. I have a bad back, by the way nothing to do with me
starting to ride a recumbent. Even bought and tested my bike while being
under serious pain. Once I'm on the bike the pain is gone.

My city travels are made in Amsterdam and The Hague (The Netherlands).
Amsterdam is pretty relaxed compared to the italian like scenes one
sometimes encounters in the Hague. Been to NYC as well and would drive
my bike anyday.

Arnold.

Date: 18 Jul 2005 09:30:43
From: S. Delaire \Rotatorrecumbent\
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

I'll go out on a limb here and volunteer the name of a very nice gentleman
who runs a messenger service in downtown Manhattan that you could talk to
and possible test ride one of his several recumbents.
Shelly Mossy dogzndrumz@aol.com
I borrowed his EZ1 last August for the day
Any *head first* style vehicle is out of the question for this person no
matter what the reason.
LWB oss works well in the tight confines of NYC, SF, Seattle, L.A., Indy
and Portland
the only big cities I have had the chance to ride.
Speedy

NYC XYZ wrote:

> NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
> messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
> had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
> joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
> picture myself in all kinds of situations.
>
> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?
>
> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?
>
> Does it brake just like an upright?
>
> Is it harder to go real slow?
>
> Ever run red lights with them?
>
> How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> and speed bumps?
>
> Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)
>
> And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??
>
> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Date: 18 Jul 2005 05:29:19
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

mike.a.schwab@gmail.com wrote:
> Like http://www.easyracers.com/ ?

Hey, cool!

But why is the $5K titanium modeal almost 27 lbs.???

Would also like a 26/26 version....

Date: 18 Jul 2005 12:49:52
From: Just zis Guy, you know?
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

On 17 Jul 2005 17:33:54 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

I use a Master Street Cuff round the main tube behind the steerer.

>Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Not particularly, a higher bike, maybe with USS, is probably better
for that than a sports bike like mine.

>Does it brake just like an upright?

Much better :-)

>Is it harder to go real slow?

Not really.

>Ever run red lights with them?

I imagine it's not different than running them on a wedgie, but no I
don't (on either)

>How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
>and speed bumps?

I have no idea, I have never felt the slightest urge to find out!

>Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
>miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

No. I've never met anyone who could keep up for long :-)

>And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

LOL! So do any bikes if you neglect them! Mine runs pretty much
silently

>And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

Allegedly.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"Let�s have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle."
- Earl Blumenauer

Date: 18 Jul 2005 11:22:23
From: Dave Larrington
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

NYC XYZ wrote:

> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

U-lock around the frame or steering riser

> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

Depends on the bike. The Speedmachine I use as my #1 commuting bike (in
central London) is not very good at this; the Kingcycle I ran for many years
was almost as handy as an upright.

> Does it brake just like an upright?

Better.

> Is it harder to go real slow?

Not with practice, though track-stands are out.

> Ever run red lights with them?

No. Nor on an upright bike or in a motorcar.

> How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> and speed bumps?

I neither know nor care, coz I ride on the road.

> Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

No.

> And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

No.

> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

Can't say I've noticed...

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ >
Apparently Guy has now got a Brompton. I'd never have guessed.

Date: 18 Jul 2005 06:02:54
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121646833.984686.160490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan?

I've lived in and around NYC all my life. When I was riding into Manhattan
on a regular basis it was always on an upright. I would be willing to do the
occasional ride or even commute but I wouldn't want to spend my days zipping
through midtown traffic on a 'bent. For bent riding I'd limit myself to the
extreme west side, extreme east side, and Central Park.

I manage to piss off enough drivers in the 'burbs by taking up a lane of
traffic on my trike. I could only imaging how the Manhattanites would find
it.

>
> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?
>

I use a lock that is shaped like a large pair of handcuffs and I use a
supplimental cable to go through the wheels. Still I wouldn't lock up my
bike or trike in NYC where it wouldn't be in my constant view.

> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?
> Does it brake just like an upright?
> Is it harder to go real slow?
> Ever run red lights with them?
> How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> and speed bumps?

I think that for this type of riding an upright is going to be better.

> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

That is what I've heard although I don't have back problems. I ride them for
comfort. If I were working on my bike in NYC I doubt it would be a 'bent.

There have recently been a lot of Pedicabs in NYC and they are almost all
upright. I think you want the kind of power and control afforded by an
upright when you are trying to get through traffic. Bikes are not well
respected by either pedestrians or drivers in NYC.

Date: 19 Jul 2005 03:21:49
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11dmvie2arp8ace@news.supernews.com...
>
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121646833.984686.160490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan?
>
> I've lived in and around NYC all my life. When I was riding into Manhattan
> on a regular basis it was always on an upright. I would be willing to do
> the occasional ride or even commute but I wouldn't want to spend my days
> zipping through midtown traffic on a 'bent. For bent riding I'd limit
> myself to the extreme west side, extreme east side, and Central Park.

I am not sure about either the extreme west side or east side either.
Perhaps at some times of the day, but not at other times of the day. Central
Park would work, but how to get you and your bike to the Park would be the
problem.
[...]

> There have recently been a lot of Pedicabs in NYC and they are almost all
> upright. I think you want the kind of power and control afforded by an
> upright when you are trying to get through traffic. Bikes are not well
> respected by either pedestrians or drivers in NYC.

The very best way to get around New York City is via the subway and then to
walk. New York is a walker's paradise. I used to walk from one end of
Manhattan to the other end on weekends many times and I never got bored. I
truly do not think there is another city in the US that is as interesting or
as exciting to walk about as is New York.

When I lived in Brooklyn Heights, I use to take the subway for about 10
cents (this was back in the 1960's) and travel to a jumping off point in the
City. From my jumping off point I would walk and walk until total exhaustion
set in. It never even occurred to me at the time to get a bicycle. In fact,
I don't even remember ever seeing any bikes, but maybe that was because I
wasn't looking.

Now that I am coming to the end of my life I am getting back to walking
again. Unfortunately, I now have to do it in my small town here in the Upper
Midwest. It is not New York of course, but still, walking is walking and you
always feel better after having done it.

We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking. If I still lived in
New York, I would want to walk and would not even consider a bike.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Date: 20 Jul 2005 10:52:02
From: Just zis Guy, you know?
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:21:49 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:

>We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

You are Mike Vandeman and I claim my five pounds.

(ps - actually we were designed for swinging from trees or loping
along the ground using feet and knuckles - check the anatomy of the
spine some time)

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"Let�s have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle."
- Earl Blumenauer

Date: 20 Jul 2005 06:16:36
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <norfolk.inspam@dev.null > wrote in message
news:oj7sd1t1eq9euc9oi1tbn909p0g06f6rj6@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:21:49 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
>
>>We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.
>
> You are Mike Vandeman and I claim my five pounds.
>
> (ps - actually we were designed for swinging from trees or loping
> along the ground using feet and knuckles - check the anatomy of the
> spine some time)

Nope! You have got homo sapiens confused with the great apes. We are
designed by nature for walking upright. However, evolution is not perfect
and we do have an inordinate number of back problems due to our upright
posture.

Who is Mike Vandeman? Is he also Great like me?

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Date: 19 Jul 2005 23:55:44
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Edward Dolan wrote:

> We humans are actually designed for walking, not biking.

You related to V@ndem@n?!?

Date: 18 Jul 2005 09:29:17
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

NYC XYZ wrote:
> NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
> messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
> had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
> joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
> picture myself in all kinds of situations.

Most of the questions you ask don't have specific answers, because
'bents are not a single functional class of cycle, just a general
description of the seating layout. What goes for a BikeE will not
necessarily go for an Anthrotech touring trike, and what goes for that
probably has little to do with what will go for an M5 Lowracer.

> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

Most have some sort of frame/wheel interface where you do it same as you
would a DF. But not all of them.

> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

As above, /very/ much implementation dependent. A compact city 'bent
like the HPVel Spirit, pretty good, a lowracer or a long wheelbase
tourer will suck at it Bigtime.

> Does it brake just like an upright?

Most of them brake considerably better. With a lower centre of mass
there's far less tendency to disappear over the bars, so usually a skid
is the worst you can manage. Being usually pricier, 'bents are
typically aimed at a ket who appreciate more expensive things, like
hydraulic disc brakes, and that can be a factor too.

> Is it harder to go real slow?

On a bike, as a rule of thumb the lower the seat is the harder really
slow travel is. On a trike, you can do an indefinite track stand if
you want to.

> Ever run red lights with them?

Same as on an upwrong, something that is possible, but I don't do,
'cause it's Very Dumb.

> How would they fare on the sidewalk?

Same as on an upwrong, depends on the other population and not something
I go in for.

> How well do they go over curbs and speed bumps?

You typically can't hop the front wheel, so going up kerbs is a question
of wheel size and suspension. Going down them isn't really a problem
IME. Speed bumps will also vary with wheel size and suspension, but you
won't go over the bars if you hit a nasty one unexpectedly.

> Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)

I haven't been...

> And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

Oh. Mine doesn't. No particular reason they should be squeakier than
any other bike AFAICT.

> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

For /some/, yes. But probably a typical upwrong crouch will be worse
for rather more. If your back problem is made worse by a recumbent
position then something /really/ upright (maybe a Pedersen) would be a
possibility in the other direction worth considering.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 17 Jul 2005 23:47:42
From: Michael
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

I ride in NYC traffic and I see recumbents from time to time,
especially with the critical mass groups. Even with the 8 foot flags,
the fear I have is cars can't see that low.

I was off the bike for five years and then popped into a shop and test
rode a carbon fiber bianchi through Times Square in rush hour, I was
hooked.

People ask me, but I explain you never forget how to ride, it's just
like riding a bicycle, you never forget!

How is that for clever?

Date: 17 Jul 2005 21:45:18
From: LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

NYC XYZ asked:

> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?

I use a motorcycle cable and Master padlock.

> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?

No.

> Does it brake just like an upright?

Better, because there's no danger of a header.

> Is it harder to go real slow?

At first, yes -- but with practice, not much.

> Ever run red lights with them?

No. Running a red light in city traffic can be the last stupid mistake
you ever get to make.

> How would they fare on the sidewalk?

Not as maneouverable as an upright.

> How well do they go over curbs and speed bumps?

Not well.

> Ever get mugged on one?

No. I was mugged on my upright by two attackers, though. After I
flat-backed the first one, the second one shagged ass. I'm not a good
choice of target by a mugger: I don't carry money or valuables, but I do
carry over 200 pounds of bad attitude.

> And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??

No.

> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

I can't imagine the kind of back problem for which a recumbent is worse
than an upright.

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Date: 18 Jul 2005 00:09:58
From: Paul Hobson
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Date: 18 Jul 2005 06:48:02
From: wafflycat
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"Paul Hobson" <gtg611a@mail.gatech.edu > wrote in message
news:dbfa2r$5qq$1@news-int2.gatech.edu...

>
> Paris was easily the scariest. Also, it was my first time riding on the
> streets of a major city ever, so let's throw that one out.
>

Yet I loved cycling in Paris - the Parisian rush hour was so easy! Yes, it
was busy, but the motorists had such an excellent attitude to cyclists,
giving me loads of room. As well as me cycling, my husband and our then 14
year-old son cycled said Parisian rush hour, and we all thought the same. At
the hotel where we were staying was an American (Texan, but no, not that
one) who was also cycling and he too thought cycling in Paris was fun. Are
we talking the same Paris? ;-)

Cheers, helen s

Date: 19 Jul 2005 02:00:14
From: Paul Hobson
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

wafflycat wrote:
>
> "Paul Hobson" <gtg611a@mail.gatech.edu> wrote in message
> news:dbfa2r$5qq$1@news-int2.gatech.edu...
>
>>
>> Paris was easily the scariest. Also, it was my first time riding on
>> the streets of a major city ever, so let's throw that one out.
>>
>
> Yet I loved cycling in Paris - the Parisian rush hour was so easy! Yes,
> it was busy, but the motorists had such an excellent attitude to
> cyclists, giving me loads of room. As well as me cycling, my husband and
> our then 14 year-old son cycled said Parisian rush hour, and we all
> thought the same. At the hotel where we were staying was an American
> (Texan, but no, not that one) who was also cycling and he too thought
> cycling in Paris was fun. Are we talking the same Paris? ;-)
>
> Cheers, helen s
>
>

I'm sure I'd love Paris now. But riding from wherever the hell I was to
Le Louvre was scary as hell for a 17 yr-old kid who had never ridden a
road bike before and had zero experience riding on streets (my hometown
has a series of golfcart/bike/ped. paths that connect the whole town).

Looking back on it...I'd eat all up now :)

--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
http://www.underthecouch.org
.:you may want to fix my email
address before you send anything:.

Date: 18 Jul 2005 03:41:29
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"wafflycat" <waffles*A*T*v21net*D*O*T*co*D*O*T*uk > wrote in message
news:42db6a7d@news.greennet.net...
>
> "Paul Hobson" <gtg611a@mail.gatech.edu> wrote in message
> news:dbfa2r$5qq$1@news-int2.gatech.edu...
>
>>
>> Paris was easily the scariest. Also, it was my first time riding on the
>> streets of a major city ever, so let's throw that one out.
>>
>
> Yet I loved cycling in Paris - the Parisian rush hour was so easy! Yes, it
> was busy, but the motorists had such an excellent attitude to cyclists,
> giving me loads of room. As well as me cycling, my husband and our then 14
> year-old son cycled said Parisian rush hour, and we all thought the same.
> At the hotel where we were staying was an American (Texan, but no, not
> that one) who was also cycling and he too thought cycling in Paris was
> fun. Are we talking the same Paris? ;-)
>
> Cheers, helen s

helen s most likely has Paris, France confused with Paris, Texas. Paris,
Texas is doubtless a fun town in which to ride a bicycle. Paris, France is a
haven for traitors and cowards to the West and a real American would not be
caught dead there on a bicycle - or on anything else either for that matter.
Let us leave the despicable French to themselves. The less said about them
the better.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Date: 17 Jul 2005 20:48:00
From: mike.a.schwab@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Like http://www.easyracers.com/ ?

Date: 17 Jul 2005 20:32:48
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Why post this message to multiple newsgroups when what you want to know will
> only be found on ARBR.

I doubt that. I didn't even know ARBR existed until half-way through
my research into recumbents!

> I once spent several years in NYC and never saw a single recumbent bicycle.
> Forget nyc.general.

You tend to see them mostly during the annual 5 Boro Bike Tour, but you
know, it was this past Thursday, when I saw the stereotypical fat
bearded middle-aged white guy on a 'bent that I remembered my long-ago
interest in those bikes.

> Rec.bicycles.misc is too miscellaneous for any information of a worthwhile
> nature.

I dunno...was hoping there'd be folks like myself, upright riders who
also believe in the virtues of a 'bent.

I guess I'll stick to my Trek 7500FX for NYC, then, and use a 'bent for
other travels.

> If you want to know something about recumbents, then post to ARBR and only
> to ARBR. After all, we are the experts on the subject of recumbents. All you
> will get from other newsgroups is a lot of bum information.
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Yes, Your Cycleness!

Hmm...is it not possible to have a rather more upright position -- but
still relatively reclined compared to real uprights -- and maybe front
wheel drive? Someone ought to design a bike that's half-way between an
upright and a 'bent...it'd be more upright than 'bent, but still
recognizably non-upright...the legs are elevated just enough to allow
for a real seat, but an upright otherwise so as to be manuverable....

Date: 18 Jul 2005 04:06:18
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121657568.610294.232250@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> Why post this message to multiple newsgroups when what you want to know
>> will
>> only be found on ARBR.
>
> I doubt that. I didn't even know ARBR existed until half-way through
> my research into recumbents!

We are an elite group of cyclists and we do not often deign to honor others
with our august presence.

>> I once spent several years in NYC and never saw a single recumbent
>> bicycle.
>> Forget nyc.general.
>
> You tend to see them mostly during the annual 5 Boro Bike Tour, but you
> know, it was this past Thursday, when I saw the stereotypical fat
> bearded middle-aged white guy on a 'bent that I remembered my long-ago
> interest in those bikes.

That must have been Larry Varney of this group that you saw. He is old, he
is ugly and he has a white beard down to his knees. He is from Kentucky but
he likes to get around and do tours in various parts of the country.

>> Rec.bicycles.misc is too miscellaneous for any information of a
>> worthwhile
>> nature.
>
> I dunno...was hoping there'd be folks like myself, upright riders who
> also believe in the virtues of a 'bent.

Nope, ARBR is your best bet. Most upright cyclists do not know squat about
recumbents, and what they think they do know is mostly wrong.

> I guess I'll stick to my Trek 7500FX for NYC, then, and use a 'bent for
> other travels.

You have got that right, NYC XYZ!

>> If you want to know something about recumbents, then post to ARBR and
>> only
>> to ARBR. After all, we are the experts on the subject of recumbents. All
>> you
>> will get from other newsgroups is a lot of bum information.
>>
>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
> Yes, Your Cycleness!

Jeez! NYC XYZ has got me figured out to perfection after just one post.
These NYC guys are just plan ster than us Midwestern yokels. I keep
telling my local newsgroup (ARBR) that if they can't accept me as their God,
then they can at the least accept me as their King.

> Hmm...is it not possible to have a rather more upright position -- but
> still relatively reclined compared to real uprights -- and maybe front
> wheel drive? Someone ought to design a bike that's half-way between an
> upright and a 'bent...it'd be more upright than 'bent, but still
> recognizably non-upright...the legs are elevated just enough to allow
> for a real seat, but an upright otherwise so as to be manuverable....

You do not want any kind of a reclined position for the kind of riding you
have to do in the big city. New York is not Podunk, or even Minneapolis. If
and when you want to ride a recumbent, you will have to get out of the city
and find a sensible sized town.

I think the only way I would ever ride a recumbent in NYC is on a bike path
and/or if they closed the streets to automotive traffic. Do they not do this
in Central Park on weekends? I think it would be one hell of a lot of fun to
ride a recumbent bike in Central Park. You would be the center of attention.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Date: 17 Jul 2005 21:28:18
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121646833.984686.160490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> NYC, that is! On a weekday in mid-town Manhattan? I did bike
> messenging for almost two months one summer -- only job where I wish I
> had more time in the day for (second hardest after Army infantry, no
> joke!) -- and now that I'm curious about recumbents, I'm trying to
> picture myself in all kinds of situations.
>
> How do you lock up a 'bent, anyway?
>
> Is it good for weaving in and out of traffic?
>
> Does it brake just like an upright?
>
> Is it harder to go real slow?
>
> Ever run red lights with them?
>
> How would they fare on the sidewalk? How well do they go over curbs
> and speed bumps?
>
> Ever get mugged on one? (Serious! Twice I had to jet away from some
> miscreants in broad daylight in the parks.)
>
> And apparently they make lots of squeaky noises??
>
> And they're actually worse for certain kinds of back problems???

Why post this message to multiple newsgroups when what you want to know will
only be found on ARBR.

I once spent several years in NYC and never saw a single recumbent bicycle.
Forget nyc.general.

Rec.bicycles.misc is too miscellaneous for any information of a worthwhile
nature.

If you want to know something about recumbents, then post to ARBR and only
to ARBR. After all, we are the experts on the subject of recumbents. All you
will get from other newsgroups is a lot of bum information.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

Date: 17 Jul 2005 18:24:32
From: rBOB
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

Many moons ago, I commuted into NYC on an upright (over the GWB into
midtown). At the risk of getting flamed, I would not ride a recumbent
in NYC. The reasons are many: acceleration, jumping curbs and potholes,
visibility, etc. Maybe someone here will disagree with me and set me
straight, but that is my 2 cents worth.

Date: 17 Jul 2005 21:12:37
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Ever Ride in City Traffic?

"rBOB" <bobish@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1121649872.261513.72710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Many moons ago, I commuted into NYC on an upright (over the GWB into
> midtown). At the risk of getting flamed, I would not ride a recumbent
> in NYC. The reasons are many: acceleration, jumping curbs and potholes,
> visibility, etc. Maybe someone here will disagree with me and set me
> straight, but that is my 2 cents worth.

rBOB is right. Recumbents really don't work all that well in heavy city
traffic, especially for something as wild as bike messaging. You want to be
on an upright where you can be like a deer. On a recumbent, you will be like
a hedgehog and nothing but an accident waiting to happen.

I have deleted the other newsgroups as posting a message to more than one
newsgroup is an abomination. There ought to be a law against it.

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota