First 'Bent a High Racer?

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Date: 10 Mar 2006 14:29:25
From: GoHabsGo
Subject: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never ridden
a bent before? I like the idea of going fast and also being high enough to
be eye to eye with most car drivers. Also think the comfort of the larger
wheels will roll smoother.

Any comments?

Date: 13 Mar 2006 13:54:28
From: Robert Stevahn
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

On 10 2006 14:29:25 GMT, GoHabsGo <spamstop@gohabs.com > wrote:

>Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never ridden
>a bent before?

Yes.

-- Robert, Vision Sabre (first recumbent)

Date: 04 Apr 2006 19:58:08
From: Don George
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

What makes a High Racer, a High Racer? I've been away from this group for a
few years. I retired from Burley last year and am now ready for another
'bent.
Thanks,
Don
"Robert Stevahn" <rstevahn@n05pam.pobox.com > wrote in message
news:bvmb12hmnu4fvordkf3svovfsgflgti6ic@4ax.com...
> On 10 2006 14:29:25 GMT, GoHabsGo <spamstop@gohabs.com> wrote:
>
>>Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never ridden
>>a bent before?
>
> Yes.
>
> -- Robert, Vision Sabre (first recumbent)

Date: 05 Apr 2006 06:45:50
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

"Don George" <dag@rockisland.com > wrote
> What makes a High Racer, a High Racer?

Not me, regardless of the bike's designation! %^P

> I've been away from this group for a few years.

Welcome back. Sifting through the "noise" for topical
signal can be challenging here and now.

> I retired from Burley last year and am now ready for another

"High Racer" is an informal designation. Generally, it's a SWB
recumbent bike with two 559(26"), 571(650c), 622(700c), etc
wheels and seat height of around 25". There are various
"light and fast" as well as recreational and touring configurations.
There are "Low" and "Mid" Racer designations. All share
similar seat geometry and riding positions.

Which of the HR's are you considering?

Jon Meinecke

Date: 05 Apr 2006 11:26:28
From: Victor Kan
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Don George wrote:
> What makes a High Racer, a High Racer? I've been away from this group for a
> few years. I retired from Burley last year and am now ready for another
> 'bent.

The archetype is dual-big-wheels (usually 571/650c, but in a few rare
cases 622/700c, and in some more rugged incarnations, 559/26"), longer
than usual wheelbase SWB configuration, OSS with outstretched arms, hard
shell seat reclined way back, high bottom bracket.

Something like:

http://www.bacchettabikes.com/web/products/aero.htm

or

http://challengebikes.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=seiran#bike

or

http://volaerecumbents.com/2005/volae_team.php

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

Date: 11 Mar 2006 01:56:29
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Hull 697 wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman Wrote:
> >
> > No solicitation without a permit.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
> I don't even begin to understand your comment. Are you a cheese
> salesman?

The Cheddar Curtain is a magical wall used to protect against the
invasion of FIBS.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

Date: 10 Mar 2006 19:49:52
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Hull 697 wrote:
>
> My first bent is a Bacchetta Strada. With some extras I knew I wanted
> from test riding. Heel strike got me once, right in front of the house
> going very slow - I started to peddle in a turn. Wham, down was I....

No solicitation without a permit.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

Date: 11 Mar 2006 18:07:35
From: Hull 697
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman Wrote:
>
> No solicitation without a permit.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
I don't even begin to understand your comment. Are you a cheese
salesman?

--
Hull 697

Date: 14 Mar 2006 00:47:14
From: Victor Kan
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Hull 697 wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman Wrote:
>
>>
>>No solicitation without a permit.
>>
>>--
>>Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
>
> I don't even begin to understand your comment. Are you a cheese
> salesman?

As someone else already replied, re-read the message Tom replied to.

Look for "pedal" vs. "peddle".

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

Date: 11 Mar 2006 20:22:09
From: nget
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Hull 697 Wrote:
> I don't even begin to understand your comment. Are you a chees
> salesman?
Tom likes to pedal his trike. If he had alot of cheese he might try t
peddle it to make some cash to pay back his student loan

--
nget

Date: 10 Mar 2006 17:47:29
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Date: 11 Mar 2006 11:00:05
From: Hull 697
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

GoHabsGo Wrote:
> Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never
> ridden
> a bent before? I like the idea of going fast and also being high enough
> to
> be eye to eye with most car drivers. Also think the comfort of the
> larger
> wheels will roll smoother.
>
> Any comments?
My first bent is a Bacchetta Strada. With some extras I knew I wanted
from test riding. Heel strike got me once, right in front of the house
going very slow - I started to peddle in a turn. Wham, down was I.

If you like high racers - go for it. Avoid Recumbent Regret.

Ride everything you can get your butt on first though!!!

--
Hull 697

Date: 10 Mar 2006 12:51:02
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

"GoHabsGo" <spamstop@gohabs.com > wrote in message
news:Xns9782608A43279gohabsgohotpopdotcom@204.153.244.170...
> Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never ridden
> a bent before? I like the idea of going fast and also being high enough
> to
> be eye to eye with most car drivers. Also think the comfort of the larger
> wheels will roll smoother.
>
> Any comments?

High racer, first recumbent? Shouldn't be a problem. Note: Going
fast is more a function of the rider than the bike. Ask Lance.
And take me, as case in point, a high "racer" with me on it, isn't... %^)

I have three recumbents, in purchase order, BikeE (16x20 CLWB),
Tour Easy (20x700c LWB) and Volae Sport (650c x 650c). I still ride
all three for various routes and purposes. Starting and stopping on the
lower bottom bracket BikeE and Tour Easy is easier for me than the
high bottom bracket Volae. Not really a big issue, though. I have
about 7500 miles on the Tour Easy and only about 2500 on the
Volae and a similar amount on the BikeE (don't have reliable
estimate for it since the cyclometer on it sometimes resets itself).

For at least moderately smooth roads, I think I'm perhaps 10-15%
faster on the Volae than on the Tour Easy at the same effort, but it's
hard to quantify. When the road gets rougher, the speed advantage
disappears, for me, at least. On packed gravel, I prefer the low
bottom bracket bikes and on really rough surfaces, I prefer the
wide tires and suspension of the BikeE.

For shorter climbs, I think the lighter weight of the Volae helps. For
long sustained climbs, I usually end up spinning at fairly high rev's
and slower speeds and bike weight matter less. I don't have
many miles on the Volae for multimile ascents, but here's probably
not 15% difference for that sort of climbs. Going up mountain
roads for miles of climbing at 10,000+ feet, I did OK on the
tour loaded Tour Easy, eventually, slowish, but steady.

For long descents, I still prefer the LWB for stability. The Volae
starts to scare me a bit when I get above 30 mph. Perhaps some of
it is just the thinner tires of the Volae, or the ability of the Tour Easy
frame to take up some of the road bumps, or maybe it's my comfort
level.

You won't know until you ride a high racer whether you'll feel comfortable
on it or not. I didn't have a problem on my first high racer test ride and
found even low-speed handling and balance quite reasonable. There
is heel strike potential on Volae and Bacchetta and other SWB recumbents.
That can take some adjustment time for low-speed tight-space turning.

I think a high racer sounds good for your application. I doubt you'll
be unhappy, as long as you don't expect to gain dramatic and
immediate speed increases over your upright, and remember, yes,
there are some things that an upright bike does better! Comfort
and fun not being two of them, for many of us, though! I started
riding recumbents because of an injury. I've always wished I'd
started riding them sooner!

If you can find a high racer used, then you can worry less about
whether you'll be happy with it knowing that you can sell it without
taking too much loss. I bought my Volae used and I had less than
10 miles total on high-racers at the time. I got a good deal on the
price and it's been worth every penny I paid for it. So has the BikeE!
So has the Tour Easy!

Go out and test ride a few! Have fun! %^)

Jon Meinecke

Date: 10 Mar 2006 13:28:28
From: Ken C. M.
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

GoHabsGo wrote:
> Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never ridden
> a bent before? I like the idea of going fast and also being high enough to
> be eye to eye with most car drivers. Also think the comfort of the larger
> wheels will roll smoother.
>
> Any comments?

Well as with any bike here is my advise: Test ride as many bikes as
possible. Wait 1 to 2 weeks. Ride the same bikes again. Let the bike
choose you. Now about a highracer. As long as you can "feet down"
comfortably. And can get proper leg extension. A hi might make a good
choice. I just bought my first bent a few weeks ago. And after riding
one for a couple of hundred miles now. I don't see myself riding my df
to much.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/

Date: 10 Mar 2006 15:39:16
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

GoHabsGo wrote:
> Would a High racer be ok as a first bent for someone that has never ridden
> a bent before? I like the idea of going fast and also being high enough to
> be eye to eye with most car drivers. Also think the comfort of the larger
> wheels will roll smoother.
>
> Any comments?

No particular reason why not, as I see it. There's nothing
intrinsically tricky about them, as long as your feet can reach the
ground easily.
Note that you can be a fair bit lower and still be eye-level with most
drivers, and the comfort advantage is pretty much a non-issue if you
have decent suspension, which will give you a smoother ride than a
bigger wheel though at a cost in weight and complexity.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Date: 10 Mar 2006 16:35:02
From: GoHabsGo
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote in
> No particular reason why not, as I see it. There's nothing
> intrinsically tricky about them, as long as your feet can reach the
> ground easily.
That shouldn't be a problem. I'm 5'11".

> Note that you can be a fair bit lower and still be eye-level with most
> drivers, and the comfort advantage is pretty much a non-issue if you
> have decent suspension, which will give you a smoother ride than a
> bigger wheel though at a cost in weight and complexity.
I really want to keep the weight as low as possible and the speed as high
as possible, within my budget. Also I have read about pogo effect with
suspension could lose some efficiency.

Date: 10 Mar 2006 21:06:21
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: First 'Bent a High Racer?

GoHabsGo wrote:

> I really want to keep the weight as low as possible and the speed as high
> as possible, within my budget. Also I have read about pogo effect with
> suspension could lose some efficiency.

Pogo effect is limited on 'bents with well designed suspension. In
part because you're pushing at right angles to the direction of
suspension travel. You can get pedal bob on some, especially if
you mash high gears rather than spin lower ones, but 'bents with
good suspension are very steady. Riding along behind an HP Vel
Streetmchine, for example, you can see the rear wheel contsantly
moving up and down over small bumps while the rack stays /very/
still and level.
Another aspect of this is that the rougher the surface you're on,
the more suspension affects the speed. On smooth pavement there's
little for suspension to do so it's dead weight, but on the rough
without it then every bump you hit requires the bike and rider to
go up and down, which costs a great deal of energy. Riding with a
fitter pal on a carbon DF is usually a case of her waiting for me,
but if it's a bad backroad, especially downhill, she can't catch
me, and that's down to the increased efficiency from the
suspension, as the only thing that has to go up and down are the
wheels, lower fork legs and rear triangle. So it can be the case
that, like fairings, by adding to the weight in the right way for
certain situations, you go faster. The main point of suspension is
often efficiency rather than comfort.

So whether or not it will slow you down or speed you up or have
little net effect will depend a lot on where it is you're riding.
The rougher it is, the more difference.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/