| |
Main
Date: 15 Feb 2006 10:56:33
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Hey, just got my copy of this just-reprinted chronicle of two Aussies'
trek through Russia, Siberia, Mongolia, and China on their 'bents! I
haven't read nothing yet -- don't even know what kinda 'bents they had
-- but I am impressed by the COLOR photos which give the paperback a
nice elegant touch. I hope for their next edition they turn this into
some kind of coffee table sort of book!
Y'all should check it out...it sounds like a great adventure
story...I'll post back later on "technical" stuff from language arts to
trip highlights as warranted...I'm curious if, since being picked up by
the prestigious Penguin/Viking label, the account's been
modified/edited (like maybe it was a typical crazyguyonabike.com
journal previously and now reads better, etc.)....
|
|
| |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 20:53:58
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>
> Not working is for parasites on society who live off inherited money.
Gee, isn't this the very spirit of capitalism?
> What ever happened to the American work ethic?
Couldn't compete against the Asian work ethic.
> Nowadays, everyone wants
> to get rich without working for it. No wonder the country is
> deteriorating.
Kids rebelling against their parents. Natural disasters. Wars and
famines and plagues and inflation. Crime out of control. Religion is
no longer revered. No sense of patriotism.
They found those complaints on an ancient Akkadian stella (as noted in
Gay Talese's book on the Bonano crime family "Honor Thy Father").
> --
> Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
|
| |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 02:50:27
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" wrote:
> >
> > A very heavily loaded upright can be a problem at low speeds or walking
> > the bike, as it is statically unstable.
>
> You don't ride a loaded regular bike very much do you? My heavily loaded
> tourer is very stable down to speeds of 4-5 kmh, and it rides more securely
> when fully loade than when loade for a day ride, especially on rough dirt
> tracks.
>
> Statically unstable? You mean it'll fall over when stopped. Easy fix - leg
> if I'm on the bike, kickstand if I'm not....
The discussion was for a load of approximately 200 pounds (~90 kgf). I
would not trust a kickstand with that type of load, unless it was
similar to a motorcycle center stand. Having the bicycle topple over
with a heavy load could easily damage the bike.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
|
| |
Date: 28 Feb 2006 19:31:47
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode of
> travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work like a
> donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
> traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two....
Not working is for parasites on society who live off inherited money.
What ever happened to the American work ethic? Nowadays, everyone wants
to get rich without working for it. No wonder the country is
deteriorating.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
|
| | |
Date: 02 Mar 2006 11:31:45
From: TimC
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
On 2006-03-01, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> ...
>> Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode of
>> travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work like a
>> donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
>> traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two....
>
> Not working is for parasites on society who live off inherited money.
>
> What ever happened to the American work ethic?
It went to McDonalds and suffered a heart attack.
--
TimC
I hereby declare that from now on, the singular of "people" is "peopum".
-- Kibo
|
| | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 03:17:30
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1141183907.613243.159500@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> ...
>> Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode
>> of
>> travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work
>> like a
>> donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
>> traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two....
>
> Not working is for parasites on society who live off inherited money.
>
> What ever happened to the American work ethic? Nowadays, everyone wants
> to get rich without working for it. No wonder the country is
> deteriorating.
Americans work harder than any other people in the world. In fact, that is
precisely what is wrong with America. Just because you like to work like a
donkey, do not impose your idiotic work ethic on the rest of us. We are way
ster than that and we know that work is for servants and slaves, not for
free men who value their liberty.
The g.d. French, whom I despise, have at least got one thing right. They
have more holidays than almost any other nation. That speaks to their good
sense. Even we dumb Americans could learn a thing or two from the g.d.
French.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 28 Feb 2006 19:27:22
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> ...
> So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
> choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
> 1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
> trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
> Hase Titan-Pino first!!
Get the Scorpion [1] and you will be HP Velotechnik Customer of the
Year.
[1] See <http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/scorpion/index_e.html >.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
|
| |
Date: 28 Feb 2006 19:23:58
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
> "Peter Signorini" wrote:
> > You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
> > Take a look at:
> > http://www.k-ju.net/
>
> Or take a look what the Germans get up to:
> http://www.mountainbike-expedition-team.de/
>
> And the Danes:
> http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/2002/2002ker.htm
> http://www.adserballe.com/
>
> All done on standard rigid MTBs with full panniers and BOB trailer at times.
> Carrying the load for extreme cold conditions can be done as easily as on a
> recumbent.
A very heavily loaded upright can be a problem at low speeds or walking
the bike, as it is statically unstable. In addition, the upright is
much less comfortable for a considerable number of people.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
|
| | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 18:41:22
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" wrote:
>
> A very heavily loaded upright can be a problem at low speeds or walking
> the bike, as it is statically unstable.
You don't ride a loaded regular bike very much do you? My heavily loaded
tourer is very stable down to speeds of 4-5 kmh, and it rides more securely
when fully loade than when loade for a day ride, especially on rough dirt
tracks.
Statically unstable? You mean it'll fall over when stopped. Easy fix - leg
if I'm on the bike, kickstand if I'm not.
> In addition, the upright is
> much less comfortable for a considerable number of people.
As I said, my bike has been very comfortable for many years. YMMV. Tried a
recumbent a couple of times, found the knee loads to be disconcertingly
high, and the $$$$ even more disconcerting.
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 09:43:56
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
> As I said, my bike has been very comfortable for many years. YMMV. Tried a
> recumbent a couple of times...
"a recumbent" is about as useful a description as a "an upright". If
you'd tried an Olympic track bike for what you do it wouldn't have done
too well, but that isn't a reason to dismiss "uprights".
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 03:03:00
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Signorini" <petesig@alphalink.com.au > wrote in message
news:440550fd$1_3@news.chariot.net.au...
>
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" wrote:
>>
>> A very heavily loaded upright can be a problem at low speeds or walking
>> the bike, as it is statically unstable.
>
> You don't ride a loaded regular bike very much do you? My heavily loaded
> tourer is very stable down to speeds of 4-5 kmh, and it rides more
> securely when fully loade than when loade for a day ride, especially on
> rough dirt tracks.
>
> Statically unstable? You mean it'll fall over when stopped. Easy fix - leg
> if I'm on the bike, kickstand if I'm not.
>
>> In addition, the upright is
>> much less comfortable for a considerable number of people.
>
> As I said, my bike has been very comfortable for many years. YMMV. Tried a
> recumbent a couple of times, found the knee loads to be disconcertingly
> high, and the $$$$ even more disconcerting.
Mr. Signorino has got it right. You only come to a recumbent when the
discomfort level exceeds what you are willing to put up with. He think this
will never happen to him, but I assure him that it will. It is just a matter
of time - like everything in life.
I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.
T.S. Eliot - The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 27 Feb 2006 22:15:04
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Just order the video, you cheapskate, and watch Tim Cope bike his 90kg
'bent up a rocky hill at a ten-degree or so incline.
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1141066627.899991.223170@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Peter Signorini wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.
> >
> > What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?
>
> Look up the word up in a dictionary, you jackass!
>
> >> But
> >> recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
> >> Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier.
> >> No
> >> thanks.
> >
> > They push from behind, they push the gear, the gear's all loaded up
> > like a snail's portable home.
>
> It is harder than hell to push a recumbent, you jackass!
>
> > I think three wheels would have been better than two in sand and snow
> > simply because, yeah, there's more to push or pull, but at least your
> > effort can be totally focused on that one act of pushing or pulling,
> > not also keeping every in balance! If you see the video, you'll see
> > that even while they push or pull they're compensating for balance.
> >
> >> You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
> >> Take a
> >> look at:
> >> http://www.k-ju.net/
> >>
> >> k and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
> >> environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
> >> the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
> >> telling the story of an epic.
> >
> > Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
> > too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.
>
> A reucumbent would not work on rough roads or no roads at all, you jackass!
>
> > So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
> > choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
> > 1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
> > trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
> > Hase Titan-Pino first!!
>
> Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode of
> travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work like a
> donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
> traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two.
>
> Serious travel on a recumbent trike is ridiculous! Yes, it can be done in a
> nation like the US and Australia with good roads, but not in a third world
> country. Certainly not in Siberia.
>
> NYC - you are a jackass!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 28 Feb 2006 02:27:28
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1141107304.471329.305200@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>
> Just order the video, you cheapskate, and watch Tim Cope bike his 90kg
> 'bent up a rocky hill at a ten-degree or so incline.
Even uprights have trouble ascending a 9% grade. Recumbents can't do it at
all.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 27 Feb 2006 10:57:08
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
>
>
> Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.
What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?
> But
> recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
> Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier. No
> thanks.
They push from behind, they push the gear, the gear's all loaded up
like a snail's portable home.
I think three wheels would have been better than two in sand and snow
simply because, yeah, there's more to push or pull, but at least your
effort can be totally focused on that one act of pushing or pulling,
not also keeping every in balance! If you see the video, you'll see
that even while they push or pull they're compensating for balance.
> You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have. Take a
> look at:
> http://www.k-ju.net/
>
> k and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
> environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
> the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
> telling the story of an epic.
Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.
So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
Hase Titan-Pino first!!
> Cheers
> Peter
|
| | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 00:34:36
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" wrote:
>
> Peter Signorini wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.
>
> What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?
Abbreviated comment. I do not rate recumbents very highly for remote
touring.
> Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
> too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.
Agreed. I'm very comfortable on my MTB tourer. Brooks leather saddle - mmmm!
> So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
> choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong!
Well we'll have to agree to differ. My personal experience, even on good
roads on a number of supported tours, is that an average rider on a
recumbent trike is considerably slower than an upright. This was over
varying terrain, mainly undulating hills. My touring, only in Australia, on
rough bush tracks is not something I would find comfortable on a recumbent,
let alone a trike. I'm talking about stuff like this:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/462265657/1462290006074746151ZluHgk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/402832674/1402867659074746151FLlCuS
A trike may have more traction for this type of descent, but it would be
very skatey. Climbing however, in this sort of conditions (grades of up to
20%), would be intolerable with a trike. Then there's the river crossings!!
You can try it, I'll skip it. But this is the sort of backtrack touring that
we love to do.
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Feb 2006 14:13:12
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
> A trike may have more traction for this type of descent, but it would be
> very skatey. Climbing however, in this sort of conditions (grades of up to
> 20%), would be intolerable with a trike.
But with a trike, recumbent or otherwise, you can go as slow as you like
and not worry about falling off. You can put a 10" gear on it and still
make useful progress, which just doesn't really work on a bike.
Having said that, I can see there are times and places where uprights
will serve you better than 'bents, and bikes better than trikes. But
when it comes to extreme hill climbing power it's /very/ hard to beat a
suitably geared trike, as there's no minimum speed, so that's far from
"intolerable".
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 18:25:04
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Clinch" wrote:
>
> But with a trike, recumbent or otherwise, you can go as slow as you like
> and not worry about falling off. You can put a 10" gear on it and still
> make useful progress, which just doesn't really work on a bike.
Did you look at the pictures? I'm not talking about absolute climbing power
and low gears. Think steering control, obstructions, wheel track width,
ruts, gullies, 18" deep river crossings. Such track surface irregularities
may be rare where you tour. On backtracks in the Australian bush they are
quite common, together with the steep grades.
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 09:45:38
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
> Did you look at the pictures? I'm not talking about absolute climbing power
> and low gears.
But I was, I was just addressing your point about climbing on a trike
being "intolerable". For the other points, I'd agree you're better off
as you are, but not on that one.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 21:11:16
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Clinch" wrote:
> Peter Signorini wrote:
>
>> Did you look at the pictures? I'm not talking about absolute climbing
>> power and low gears.
>
> But I was, I was just addressing your point about climbing on a trike
> being "intolerable". For the other points, I'd agree you're better off as
> you are, but not on that one.
OK. I'll add the qualifiers that were implied in my earlier post, but may
not have clear.
Climbing however, in the sorts of conditions seen in these photos (including
grades of up to 20%, with rocky, rutted and eroded trails) would be
intolerably slow with a trike, if not damn near impossible. Then there's the
river crossings, which at 18"-24" deep would be 'interesting' with a trike.
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 11:36:15
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
> Then there's the
> river crossings, which at 18"-24" deep would be 'interesting' with a trike.
"trike" includes *no* particular requirement for a low seat, simply that
it will have 3 wheels. Again, you need to be more careful with your
assumptions!
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 22:59:24
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Clinch" wrote:
> Peter Signorini wrote:
>
>> Then there's the river crossings, which at 18"-24" deep would be
>> 'interesting' with a trike.
>
> "trike" includes *no* particular requirement for a low seat, simply that
> it will have 3 wheels. Again, you need to be more careful with your
> assumptions!
Hehehe! That's a good wisecrack, man.
I'd challenge anyone with a conventional (or non-conventional) upright or
(raised-chassis) trike to get anywhere within a bulls roar of the
Ingeegoodbee Fire Trail stream crossingss or Nine Mile Pinch descent shown
in my photos.
As my mate Dave often says, it isn't all beer and skittles. ;-)
Cheers
Peter
|
| | |
Date: 27 Feb 2006 23:34:07
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1141066627.899991.223170@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Peter Signorini wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.
>
> What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?
Look up the word up in a dictionary, you jackass!
>> But
>> recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
>> Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier.
>> No
>> thanks.
>
> They push from behind, they push the gear, the gear's all loaded up
> like a snail's portable home.
It is harder than hell to push a recumbent, you jackass!
> I think three wheels would have been better than two in sand and snow
> simply because, yeah, there's more to push or pull, but at least your
> effort can be totally focused on that one act of pushing or pulling,
> not also keeping every in balance! If you see the video, you'll see
> that even while they push or pull they're compensating for balance.
>
>> You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
>> Take a
>> look at:
>> http://www.k-ju.net/
>>
>> k and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
>> environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
>> the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
>> telling the story of an epic.
>
> Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
> too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.
A reucumbent would not work on rough roads or no roads at all, you jackass!
> So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
> choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
> 1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
> trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
> Hase Titan-Pino first!!
Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode of
travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work like a
donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two.
Serious travel on a recumbent trike is ridiculous! Yes, it can be done in a
nation like the US and Australia with good roads, but not in a third world
country. Certainly not in Siberia.
NYC - you are a jackass!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 25 Feb 2006 21:19:52
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>
> With that heavy of a load, I would not want rear suspension. There will
> be plenty of frame flex (at least in any production recumbent) so
> suspension will not really be necessary. Suspension is also less
> reliable and could be impossible to fix in the middle of nowhere.
Ah, good point...indeed, at one point, Tim's bike broke in half!
Somehow he was able to peddle along without realizing the fact until he
finally decided to investigate that weird squeaking noise...! Even
more amazing, he managed to find some friendly truckers who gave him a
lift to probably the one Polish welder in all Siberia!! Apparently
he's like the country doctor out there; people get him to weld
everything from bikes to combines....
> If I were planning on doing such travels I would consider a trike such
> as the Greenspeed GTR:
> <http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/design/gtedesgn.html>.
> Note the lack of rear suspension.
And again, not to steal the thunder of their glory, but it's very
puzzling why their vehicles barely even warrant a mention in both book
and film! Especially given that Chris had cycled across Australia once
and is an avid biker...now that you mention trikes, yeah, mate, what
the heck were they thinking?? Definitely could have come in much more
handy in the snow, right? And the sands of the Gobi, even?
All in all, the video's very good, the soundtrack is nice and fits, but
it's all over much too quickly at ~53 minutes long -- great tale, but
the telling leaves much to be desired (though the two heros alternately
narrate and they do fine in that regard).
> --
> Tom Sherman
|
| | |
Date: 27 Feb 2006 22:03:43
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" wrote;
>
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> If I were planning on doing such travels I would consider a trike such
>> as the Greenspeed GTR:
>> <http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/design/gtedesgn.html>.
>> Note the lack of rear suspension.
>
> And again, not to steal the thunder of their glory, but it's very
> puzzling why their vehicles barely even warrant a mention in both book
> and film! Especially given that Chris had cycled across Australia once
> and is an avid biker...now that you mention trikes, yeah, mate, what
> the heck were they thinking?? Definitely could have come in much more
> handy in the snow, right? And the sands of the Gobi, even?
Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov. But
recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier. No
thanks.
You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have. Take a
look at:
http://www.k-ju.net/
k and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
telling the story of an epic.
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2006 22:12:48
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Signorini" wrote:
> You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
> Take a look at:
> http://www.k-ju.net/
Or take a look what the Germans get up to:
http://www.mountainbike-expedition-team.de/
And the Danes:
http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/2002/2002ker.htm
http://www.adserballe.com/
All done on standard rigid MTBs with full panniers and BOB trailer at times.
Carrying the load for extreme cold conditions can be done as easily as on a
recumbent.
As I said, just my point of view (2c)
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Mar 2006 02:26:20
From: Mike Kruger
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Signorini" <petesig@alphalink.com.au > wrote in message
news:4402deb2_1@news.chariot.net.au...
>
> Or take a look what the Germans get up to:
> http://www.mountainbike-expedition-team.de/
>
I remember these guys! They are definitely somewhere between irrational and
inspirational. Here's a favorite quote from their writeup of their bike tour
of Greenland, in the winter:
"We were so much adapted to the extreme cold temperatures, that we used the
warm periods end of April with temperatures of -8°C to cycle without
shirts."
|
| | | | |
Date: 27 Feb 2006 06:46:56
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Signorini" <petesig@alphalink.com.au > wrote in message
news:4402deb2_1@news.chariot.net.au...
>
> "Peter Signorini" wrote:
>> You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
>> Take a look at:
>> http://www.k-ju.net/
>
> Or take a look what the Germans get up to:
> http://www.mountainbike-expedition-team.de/
>
> And the Danes:
> http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/2002/2002ker.htm
> http://www.adserballe.com/
>
> All done on standard rigid MTBs with full panniers and BOB trailer at
> times. Carrying the load for extreme cold conditions can be done as easily
> as on a recumbent.
>
> As I said, just my point of view (2c)
I agree with Peter Signorini. If the roads are bad and/or no roads at all,
you had better have an upright for your steed, and I think a mountain bike
would work best too. Recumbents really only work well on paved roads and
they are the pits climbing mountains.
You are also going to have to walk the bike from time to time because of
road and/or traffic conditions and a mountain bike is easy to walk. I
believe if I were embarking on an adventure type of bike ride in a third
world country I would definitely go with a simple mountain bike. In fact, I
would not even consider a recumbent and certainly not a recumbent trike. You
have to be practical once you get away from civilization.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 25 Feb 2006 15:15:16
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> ...
>
> Erratum: their 'bents were front-suspended, and yes it's too bad
> neither the film nor even the book goes into detail about the bikes.
> With up to 200 lbs. of gear, you'd think they wanted some rear
> suspension as well!...
With that heavy of a load, I would not want rear suspension. There will
be plenty of frame flex (at least in any production recumbent) so
suspension will not really be necessary. Suspension is also less
reliable and could be impossible to fix in the middle of nowhere.
If I were planning on doing such travels I would consider a trike such
as the Greenspeed GTR:
<http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/design/gtedesgn.html >.
Note the lack of rear suspension.
--
Tom Sherman
|
| |
Date: 25 Feb 2006 13:58:20
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
nowater wrote:
>
>
> I borrowed the DVD from the local library about 2 years ago. These 2
> lads were NOT tourists, they were true travellers.
Hell yeah! I kept thinking, my God, what the hell was I doing as a
twenty year-old? I was in college. The next year, feeling that
adventure was needed, I...joined the Army!
That was interesting enough, but really, I should have been truly brave
and done an expedition like these two! Bravo, chaps!
> They were not
> hardened travellers either, so all the more respect to them.
Actually, in the book -- though not in the film -- it is revealed
straight from the beginning that these two had some hiking and camping
trips underneath their belt before this journey. As a matter of fact,
Tim was in Finland on scholarship for some kind of wilderness guide
survival course!!! Chris had made a cross-country cycle of Australia!!
Etc.
But that doesn't discount their achievement at all, of course. My God,
it is truly inspirational when you think about it!
> I watched
> it 3 times, my wife once, and my daughters twice - which is a huge
> recommendation, as I am the only cyclist in the family.
It's a better video than I'd expected, though it's much too short and I
hope someone sees fit for a real documentary one day...it really brings
the book to life, but, oddly enough, while it supplies what the book
misses -- visceral excitement (and I don't mean simply on account of
the visuals; let's face it; the book's just another crazyguyonabike.com
journal, really [no disrespect to crazyguyonabike.com, I hope y'all
understand]) -- it lacks what the book supplies: extended context, such
as the aforementioned fact that these two adventurers were experienced
outdoorsmen.
Really, you need the two together, both book and film, and even then
both are too short and still rather lacking...this epic really deserves
its Homer!
> Real hardships, real danger, threat and fear, real sense of community
> and empathy developed with the local peoples. They grew enormously
> over the course of a year or so, and they survived: a true adventure.
> Highly recommended.
Agreed! I must say that I was surprised to find myself enjoying the
soundtrack, too! I was afraid it was going to be elevator muzak, but,
especially towards the end, it really fitted well! David Skinner is
the composer...it just touches New Age stuff, but is mostly like folk
music -- Russian, Oriental, etc. -- and not intrusive at all.
> Lots of footage of the recumbents (try riding unsuspended recumbents
> down the middle of the trans siberian railway, like these boys did
> when they discovered there was NO ROAD!). But it's not "about the
> recumbents".
Erratum: their 'bents were front-suspended, and yes it's too bad
neither the film nor even the book goes into detail about the bikes.
With up to 200 lbs. of gear, you'd think they wanted some rear
suspension as well!
> So the DVD gets a tick: suggest you try obtaining a copy.
Actually, I suggest folks buy one. I don't think you can go wrong
owning it. Very beautiful shots. Too bad, at ~53 min., it's more like
a promotional piece rather than a proper documentary which helps you
understand. As it is, it just gives a whiff, a taste, and leaves you
wondering what's around the corner.
I seriously hope someone does this adventure justice! Imagine co
Polo scoring but a footnote upon his return. This DVD is discontinued
and not widely available; I got my copy from HMV Australia in a few
days.
Maybe I should become a film student and contact these guys...surely
they have much more footage, really interesting stuff. As it is, this
video, while good and better than a jaded viewer like me had expected,
is still too much like only looking at pictures in the middle of the
book without reading the book itself. (Their book is also rather like
that, though; chronicling their journey properly will require a more
literary ethos.)
For example, it would make a very interesting "theme" to contrast their
Russian experiences against their limited and much shorter Chinese
ones, insofar as they had no hassle from officials in Russia/Siberia
but had trouble in China. Despite the good folks they've met in both
countries (though in or near the big city of Beijing they almost got
conned some money), I seemed to sense, at least as the video was
presented, the rather relaxed though desperately poor Russian/Siberian
peasant as compared to the fearful but relatively noveau riche Chinese
peasant.
Etc.
|
| |
Date: 19 Feb 2006 22:22:36
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Oh, BTW, the 'bents they used were custom-built by a Wayne Kotzur of
Canberra. He seems to have been very active in the Australian scene,
but doesn't seem to have an online presence anymore (?).
They looked like your standard USS 20/26 front-susupension 'bent, with
a mesh seat.
Now, I must again reiterate my slight disappointment with this style of
travel-writing which seems like those group tours that rush from one
point of interest to another. For example, it was a big deal for them
to have secured year-long Russian visas, but no explanation is given
for the achievement of this well-nigh impossibility, despite the very
strongly stated goal given by both authors (they take turns writing
alternate chapters, with little overlap) of inspiring others,
particularly young people, with their trip. Well, their account,
interesting as it is simply because of the story itself -- as opposed
to the art of telling it -- won't serve as some kind of how-to guide at
all, that's for sure.
As REMFs in the Army like to say: amateurs talk strategy, professionals
talk logistics. More useful than knowing their plans -- which are
mostly ad-hoc, really -- would have been to know how they handled stuff
like funding (beyond obvious stuff like family loans).
Hull 697 wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>
> NYC, did you ever find out what brand they were riding? Appreciate the
> review. Am requesting both these books through the local library
> tomorrow. They are getting used to me, never a dull moment when I head
> for the requests desk, occasional twinge, but they secretely enjoy the
> challenge.
>
>
> --
> Hull 697
|
| | |
Date: 20 Feb 2006 15:35:55
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140416556.460914.85590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
[...]
> Now, I must again reiterate my slight disappointment with this style of
> travel-writing which seems like those group tours that rush from one
> point of interest to another. For example, it was a big deal for them
> to have secured year-long Russian visas, but no explanation is given
> for the achievement of this well-nigh impossibility, despite the very
> strongly stated goal given by both authors (they take turns writing
> alternate chapters, with little overlap) of inspiring others,
> particularly young people, with their trip. Well, their account,
> interesting as it is simply because of the story itself -- as opposed
> to the art of telling it -- won't serve as some kind of how-to guide at
> all, that's for sure.
>
> As REMFs in the Army like to say: amateurs talk strategy, professionals
> talk logistics. More useful than knowing their plans -- which are
> mostly ad-hoc, really -- would have been to know how they handled stuff
> like funding (beyond obvious stuff like family loans).
I have read innumerable articles by touring cyclists which tell me
everything except what I want to know. For instance, I have next to zero
interest in the sights they see along the way. Other travel books have done
this a thousand times better than they could ever do it.
What I want to know are the particulars of how the bikes work doing a tour
and of how obstacles are dealt with - like eating and sleeping, camping, bad
roads, bike breakdowns, body breakdowns, the weather, etc. Of course, any
adventures peculiar to the bicycle will be of interest. In other words, I
want to know the mechanics of doing a bike tour. In fact, that is about all
I want to know most of the time. But they slight over that and so I never
learn very much at all of what it is like to do a tour by bicycle.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 19 Feb 2006 10:11:47
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Hull 697 wrote:
>
>
><SNIP>
>
>
> Been there, even, yea, unto Timbuktu. You can have it. Romantics
> should be given their wish. Give me Club Med, the one in Turkey next
> time, please.
That's what's so great about NYC -- The World, "Lite." Or should I say
"white?" As in, just off-white: you get just enough "flava" but
nothing too outrageous.
> NYC, did you ever find out what brand they were riding? Appreciate the
> review.
I'll just be reading it "properly" later today or tomorrow, but I'll
definitely let you know. FYI, I've also ordered the ~53-min.
Australian Geographic documentary on DVD; I'll also review this ASAP!
>Am requesting both these books through the local library
> tomorrow. They are getting used to me, never a dull moment when I head
> for the requests desk, occasional twinge, but they secretely enjoy the
> challenge.
I must say how rather beautiful many female librarians can be! Used to
love asking silly questions myself. I've yet to help any reach a high
shelf by giving a nice little boost, though.
> --
> Hull 697
|
| | |
Date: 25 Feb 2006 16:57:43
From: nowater
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
>
> I'll just be reading it "properly" later today or tomorrow, but I'll
> definitely let you know. FYI, I've also ordered the ~53-min.
> Australian Geographic documentary on DVD; I'll also review this
ASAP!
I borrowed the DVD from the local library about 2 years ago. These 2
lads were NOT tourists, they were true travellers. They were not
hardened travellers either, so all the more respect to them. I watched
it 3 times, my wife once, and my daughters twice - which is a huge
recommendation, as I am the only cyclist in the family.
Real hardships, real danger, threat and fear, real sense of community
and empathy developed with the local peoples. They grew enormously
over the course of a year or so, and they survived: a true adventure.
Highly recommended.
Lots of footage of the recumbents (try riding unsuspended recumbents
down the middle of the trans siberian railway, like these boys did
when they discovered there was NO ROAD!). But it's not "about the
recumbents".
So the DVD gets a tick: suggest you try obtaining a copy.
|
| | | |
Date: 25 Feb 2006 01:26:33
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"nowater" <nowater@grantsellek.com > wrote in message
news:43fff8f3$1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> I'll just be reading it "properly" later today or tomorrow, but I'll
>> definitely let you know. FYI, I've also ordered the ~53-min.
>> Australian Geographic documentary on DVD; I'll also review this
> ASAP!
>
> I borrowed the DVD from the local library about 2 years ago. These 2
> lads were NOT tourists, they were true travellers. They were not
> hardened travellers either, so all the more respect to them. I watched
> it 3 times, my wife once, and my daughters twice - which is a huge
> recommendation, as I am the only cyclist in the family.
>
> Real hardships, real danger, threat and fear, real sense of community
> and empathy developed with the local peoples. They grew enormously
> over the course of a year or so, and they survived: a true adventure.
> Highly recommended.
>
> Lots of footage of the recumbents (try riding unsuspended recumbents
> down the middle of the trans siberian railway, like these boys did
> when they discovered there was NO ROAD!). But it's not "about the
> recumbents".
>
> So the DVD gets a tick: suggest you try obtaining a copy.
Yes, thanks, I will check and see if the local library has it as that is the
kind of thing I like too. Siberia has always fascinated me. It is such a
large piece of the earth and very little is known about it. I still want to
cross the Sahara by camel caravan to Timbuktu, but I will settle for a nice
armchair travel by bike through Asia.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 19 Feb 2006 00:47:10
From: John_Kane@tricolour.queensu.ca
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@none.non> wrote in message
> news:43f621cc$0$8244$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
> > [newsgroups trimmed]
> >
> > "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>
> >> But I'd rather having "too carping and cynical" than "too laudatory and
> >> 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,'"
> >
> > Read Douglas Adam's _Last Chance to See_ for a non-fiction
> > take on terrestrial travel.
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345371984/002-8436834-7804051?v=glance&n=283155
> >
For a very interesting cycling travel book I would strongly recommend
Round the world on a wheel: Being a narrative of a bicycle ride by
John Foster Fraser. It is perhaps a bit dated :) but an excellent
read.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
|
| |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 12:01:56
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
LOL -- but I though Heisenberg already covered that? =)
Jon Meinecke wrote:
>
>
> Read Douglas Adam's _Last Chance to See_ for a non-fiction
> take on terrestrial travel.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345371984/002-8436834-7804051?v=glance&n=283155
>
> "...the guided tour was profoundly depressing. When we told
> our guide that we didn't want to go to all the tourist places
> he took us instead to the places where they take tourists
> who say that they don't want to go to tourist palces.
> These places are, of course, full of tourists.
> Which is not to say that we weren't tourists every bit as much
> as the others, but it does highlight the irony that everything
> you go to see is changed by the very action of going to see it,
> which is the sort of problem which physicists have been wrestling
> with for most of this century."
> --Douglas Adams, on visiting Bali in Last Chance to See
>
>
> Jon Meinecke
|
| |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 06:43:38
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Peter Signorini wrote:
>
>
> Well, I guess I beg to differ. I found reading 'Off the Rails' to be quite a
> joyous adventure, with a reasonable level of insight and understanding of
> the places they visited.
Well, like I said, "reasonable" for something informal like
crazyguyonabike.com, but rather less "literary" than one might usually
expect from the Viking/Penguin imprint.
> Even better, covering some similar parts was
> 'Absudistan' by Eric Campbell. Not strictly a travel book as he was working
> as a foreign correspondent and it's all about these experiences. A
> vellously funny read, and very revealing about the wide range of places
> he travelled to.
It's certainly a catchy title, "Absurdistan!" I've heard about it on
NPR; I'll look into it soon with this second recommendation!
> Paul Theroux - is that a cultured writer? Well I didn't get to finish his
> book about the Mediterranean. I may have to give it another go. I found his
> style to be too carping and cynical, I can't stand such a negative outlook
> and I don't equate that with culture.
I've read excerpts of his kayak trip through the Bahamas or something
once, and, if I also recall correctly, riding the train through China
back in the '70s or '80s, and I was fairly taken in. I can't say I'm
familiar with his ouvre, but he's highly regarded and sells
comfortably! He's also on NPR every now and then, if that means
anything. =)
But I'd rather having "too carping and cynical" than "too laudatory and
'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,'" if you take my meaning ("Don't
Panic!")...too much travel writing sounds Pollyanna-ish, or prematurely
mystical, or undeservedly detached....it's hard, it's true, one of the
hardest kinds of writing there must be, because you want to do justice
to your own experience, yet be mindful of semantics -- for example, it
might feel that people X behave in Y ways, but of course one's
experiences are necessarily limited, in oh-so-many ways....
Reader beware, to be sure -- but then some writers do get annoying with
the broadest generalizations devoid of any sense of irony: very fucking
country seems to be warm, or dour, or this or that...it gets to be like
reading the horoscopes, where any fucking thing could apply to anyone
at any time....
Yes, I guess the worst kind of travel writing -- descriptive and
evocative as it may be in literary terms, even -- fails precisely for
the cultural blindspots. Like how observant Jews ask, annually, "how
is this night different from every other night," I think travel writers
sometimes try to make much too much of superficial or coincidental
differences....
Anyway, it's a hard job, in many ways.
> Cheers
> Peter
|
| | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 03:52:10
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Your mother.
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1141154948.875878.45800@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > I'd rather believe my eyes than your mouth (unless the camera angle has
> > really thrown me off).
>
> All top posters are idiots!
>
> Please learn to post properly. It is a pain in the ass to have to see what
> you are responding to by looking down at the bottom of the message.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> >> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1141107304.471329.305200@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Just order the video, you cheapskate, and watch Tim Cope bike his 90kg
> >> > 'bent up a rocky hill at a ten-degree or so incline.
> >>
> >> Even uprights have trouble ascending a 9% grade. Recumbents can't do it
> >> at
> >> all.
|
| | |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 20:35:33
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140187418.618954.8490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
[...]
> Yes, I guess the worst kind of travel writing -- descriptive and
> evocative as it may be in literary terms, even -- fails precisely for
> the cultural blindspots. Like how observant Jews ask, annually, "how
> is this night different from every other night," I think travel writers
> sometimes try to make much too much of superficial or coincidental
> differences....
Still, I like a travel writer who has a point of view about things. It is
precisely the point of view that makes for an interesting reading
experience. Of course, the writer has to be intelligent above all else, but
I do not mind if he is culturally determined about things. His attitude
about what he is experiencing is frequently much more engrossing than the
actual events and places he is describing. The personal opinions, and indeed
prejudices, of the travel writer always count much more for me than any
assortment of facts that is presented, no matter how interesting. That is
probably why I like Theroux so much.
> Anyway, it's a hard job, in many ways.
Yes, travel writing is hard work. Anyone who thinks it is easy has never
done it.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 13:24:05
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
[newsgroups trimmed]
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote
>
> But I'd rather having "too carping and cynical" than "too laudatory and
> 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,'"
Read Douglas Adam's _Last Chance to See_ for a non-fiction
take on terrestrial travel.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345371984/002-8436834-7804051?v=glance&n=283155
"...the guided tour was profoundly depressing. When we told
our guide that we didn't want to go to all the tourist places
he took us instead to the places where they take tourists
who say that they don't want to go to tourist palces.
These places are, of course, full of tourists.
Which is not to say that we weren't tourists every bit as much
as the others, but it does highlight the irony that everything
you go to see is changed by the very action of going to see it,
which is the sort of problem which physicists have been wrestling
with for most of this century."
--Douglas Adams, on visiting Bali in Last Chance to See
Jon Meinecke
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 21:09:20
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@none.non > wrote in message
news:43f621cc$0$8244$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
> [newsgroups trimmed]
>
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>> But I'd rather having "too carping and cynical" than "too laudatory and
>> 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,'"
>
> Read Douglas Adam's _Last Chance to See_ for a non-fiction
> take on terrestrial travel.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345371984/002-8436834-7804051?v=glance&n=283155
>
> "...the guided tour was profoundly depressing. When we told
> our guide that we didn't want to go to all the tourist places
> he took us instead to the places where they take tourists
> who say that they don't want to go to tourist palces.
> These places are, of course, full of tourists.
> Which is not to say that we weren't tourists every bit as much
> as the others, but it does highlight the irony that everything
> you go to see is changed by the very action of going to see it,
> which is the sort of problem which physicists have been wrestling
> with for most of this century."
> --Douglas Adams, on visiting Bali in Last Chance to See
>
>
> Jon Meinecke
Newsgroups restored.
I grew up on Richard Halliburton travel books. The genius of Halliburton was
that it was always a great struggle for him to get to a place. The getting
there was half the battle. Travel was hard and never easy back then. Of
course, he had a very Romantic view of all the places he ever went to and
wrote about. That was what made his books worth reading, at least to a young
person like myself whose head was constantly in the clouds.
The main problem with travel today is that it is just too easy to go places.
The main tourist destinations are still as worth seeing as they ever were,
but they are appreciated more if you have to risk your life and limb to get
to them.
I have always wanted to go to Timbuktu, not that there is much to see I
suspect. But it is the adventure of crossing the Sahara Desert (by camel
caravan of course) that intrigues me. But you can't just go wandering about
in the desert. You have to have a destination. Timbuktu supplies the
necessary destination, but the Romance is just in getting there. I don't
know ... it seems to me if you take the Romance out of travel, there is then
no reason to ever go anyplace. In short, it is only the Romantic imagination
that makes travel worthwhile.
As you can see from the above, I never got over reading the travels of co
Polo.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | |
Date: 18 Feb 2006 17:36:15
From: Hull 697
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Edward Dolan Wrote:
> "Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@none.non> wrote in messag
> news:43f621cc$0$8244$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com..
> I have always wanted to go to Timbuktu, not that there is much to see
> suspect. But it is the adventure of crossing the Sahara Desert (b
> came
> caravan of course) that intrigues me. But you can't just go wanderin
> abou
> in the desert. You have to have a destination. Timbuktu supplies th
> necessary destination, but the Romance is just in getting there.
> don'
> know ... it seems to me if you take the Romance out of travel, there i
> the
> no reason to ever go anyplace. In short, it is only the Romanti
> imaginatio
> that makes travel worthwhile
>
> As you can see from the above, I never got over reading the travels o
> c
> Polo
>
> Regards
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesot
> ak
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Camels. Ugh! They stink, they bite, they will spit on you and th
spit may well be the magic elixir for Butt Zits and Sores. If one i
prone to motion sickness (I am not, thank you, Lord) stay off camels!
The desert is hot, really hot. The flies bite, the Arabs will stea
you blind, the water is foul and everybody stinks because there is no
enough water to bathe, assuming they had ever heard of it.
Been there, even, yea, unto Timbuktu. You can have it. Romantic
should be given their wish. Give me Club Med, the one in Turkey nex
time, please
NYC, did you ever find out what brand they were riding? Appreciate th
review. Am requesting both these books through the local librar
tomorrow. They are getting used to me, never a dull moment when I hea
for the requests desk, occasional twinge, but they secretely enjoy th
challenge
--
Hull 697
|
| | | | | |
Date: 19 Feb 2006 02:24:35
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Hull 697" <Hull.697.23ewzy@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com > wrote in message
news:Hull.697.23ewzy@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com...
[...]
> Been there, even, yea, unto Timbuktu. You can have it. Romantics
> should be given their wish. Give me Club Med, the one in Turkey next
> time, please.
[...]
If you have actually been to Timbuktu, you are one of the very few
Westerners ever to go there. I believe the group might be interested in
hearing your impressions of the place. I know I certainly would.
How is it that you ever found yourself in such a remote place? And how did
you get there I wonder? I am assuming you did not cross the Sahara Desert by
camel caravan!
The closest I ever got to Timbuktu, was rakech, Morocco. From a bit
beyond there I could see the Great Desert called the Sahara. I was stationed
in Morocco for a year when I was in the Navy back in the 50's. Alas, the
Navy would not let me go off wandering in the desert as much as I wanted to.
I regard the Club Meds as an abomination fit only for sybarites. Of course,
I have never been to one myself. The true essence of all travel, as opposed
to touring, is misery and suffering. Without that ingredient, you might as
well stay home. All of my travels have been very hard and in some cases life
threatening. But I must confess, I mainly like to travel these days via my
armchair reading. It is safer and more comfortable by far.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | |
Date: 19 Feb 2006 00:52:02
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Hull 697" <Hull.697.23ewzy@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com > wrote in message
news:Hull.697.23ewzy@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com...
>
> Edward Dolan Wrote:
>> "Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@none.non> wrote in message
>> news:43f621cc$0$8244$6d36acad@taz.nntpserver.com...
>> I have always wanted to go to Timbuktu, not that there is much to see I
>> suspect. But it is the adventure of crossing the Sahara Desert (by
>> camel
>> caravan of course) that intrigues me. But you can't just go wandering
>> about
>> in the desert. You have to have a destination. Timbuktu supplies the
>> necessary destination, but the Romance is just in getting there. I
>> don't
>> know ... it seems to me if you take the Romance out of travel, there is
>> then
>> no reason to ever go anyplace. In short, it is only the Romantic
>> imagination
>> that makes travel worthwhile.
>>
>> As you can see from the above, I never got over reading the travels of
>> co
>> Polo.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>> aka
>> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
> Camels. Ugh! They stink, they bite, they will spit on you and the
> spit may well be the magic elixir for Butt Zits and Sores. If one is
> prone to motion sickness (I am not, thank you, Lord) stay off camels!
> The desert is hot, really hot. The flies bite, the Arabs will steal
> you blind, the water is foul and everybody stinks because there is not
> enough water to bathe, assuming they had ever heard of it.
>
> Been there, even, yea, unto Timbuktu. You can have it. Romantics
> should be given their wish. Give me Club Med, the one in Turkey next
> time, please.
[...]
Yes, I know Hull is right about this, but I can't help it. I have been
brainwashed by all the reading I did as a kid. Sorry, but I still want to go
to Timbuktu via camel caravan. I will pretend I am co Polo and I will
have a grand time even if it kills me. Now you know what the Romantic
imagination is all about!
Another somewhat later influence on me was the book 'The Seven Pillars of
Wisdom' on which the movie 'Lawrence of Arabia' is based. By the way, I
consider 'Lawrence of Arabia' to be the only adult spectacular ever made in
the entire history of cinema. All those MGM biblical epics and Roman Empire
sagas are absurd and are strictly for children. I think 'Cleopatra' may well
be the worst movie ever made. It is nothing but pure camp.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 16 Feb 2006 06:52:25
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
Okay, I've skimmed the book a bit and I have to say it's adequate but
definitely not "literary"...it reads more like cleaned-up journal
entries than some kind of Paul Theroux travelogue...many events which
seem momentous are dealt with in just a short paragraph! As it is,
however, the book was still surprisingly thick. Just wish it didn't
read so much like most any crazyguyonabike.com entry.
The chapters are alternately written by the two adventurers. Not any
difference, really, I could discern with a preliminary perusal, though
it must surely prove interesting later on when we get to the inevitable
interpersonal tensions. All in all, an important contribution to the
record of human achievement. An Australian Geographic DVD documentary
is available.
There is a nice drawing of their recumbent bike (still couldn't find
out which one it is they used; it's high-riding USS with a mesh-seat
and front suspension only [?!?!]) with labels for all the major parts,
including gear (they had OVER A HUNDRED POUNDS each at any one
time!!!!!), though oddly enough they forgot to mention the mudguards
(maybe they thought that that was just too obvious to note).
Unfortunately, there wasn't too much, again at first glance, about
recumbents, etc. -- it's probably covered somewhere, but glossed over
rather quickly like all else, I'd guess.
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Hey, just got my copy of this just-reprinted chronicle of two Aussies'
> trek through Russia, Siberia, Mongolia, and China on their 'bents! I
> haven't read nothing yet -- don't even know what kinda 'bents they had
> -- but I am impressed by the COLOR photos which give the paperback a
> nice elegant touch. I hope for their next edition they turn this into
> some kind of coffee table sort of book!
>
> Y'all should check it out...it sounds like a great adventure
> story...I'll post back later on "technical" stuff from language arts to
> trip highlights as warranted...I'm curious if, since being picked up by
> the prestigious Penguin/Viking label, the account's been
> modified/edited (like maybe it was a typical crazyguyonabike.com
> journal previously and now reads better, etc.)....
|
| | |
Date: 16 Feb 2006 23:04:28
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140101544.974896.112280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Okay, I've skimmed the book a bit and I have to say it's adequate but
> definitely not "literary"...it reads more like cleaned-up journal
> entries than some kind of Paul Theroux travelogue...many events which
> seem momentous are dealt with in just a short paragraph! As it is,
> however, the book was still surprisingly thick. Just wish it didn't
> read so much like most any crazyguyonabike.com entry.
[...]
I am one of this world's champion armchair travelers, having read most of
the travel books that the local public library had on its shelves. Most
recent travel books are not worth reading for any number of reasons, the
main reason being the total lack of culture of the writer. Paul Theroux is
just excellent and it is a joy to read him.
The first travel book I ever read was the travels of co Polo. That is
still one of the very best travel books ever written by anyone. However, it
is best to read travel books when you are young and hopeful. You are always
thinking that some day you are going to travel yourself. Alas, most of us
end up doing very little true traveling.
By the way, touring is not the same thing as traveling. One is an adventure
and the other is not. One is hard and the other is easy. One is life
transforming and the other is not. Guess which is which?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Feb 2006 11:29:08
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
I'd rather believe my eyes than your mouth (unless the camera angle has
really thrown me off).
Edward Dolan wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1141107304.471329.305200@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Just order the video, you cheapskate, and watch Tim Cope bike his 90kg
> > 'bent up a rocky hill at a ten-degree or so incline.
>
> Even uprights have trouble ascending a 9% grade. Recumbents can't do it at
> all.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Mar 2006 03:07:46
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1141154948.875878.45800@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'd rather believe my eyes than your mouth (unless the camera angle has
> really thrown me off).
All top posters are idiots!
Please learn to post properly. It is a pain in the ass to have to see what
you are responding to by looking down at the bottom of the message.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1141107304.471329.305200@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Just order the video, you cheapskate, and watch Tim Cope bike his 90kg
>> > 'bent up a rocky hill at a ten-degree or so incline.
>>
>> Even uprights have trouble ascending a 9% grade. Recumbents can't do it
>> at
>> all.
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 22:42:26
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Edward Dolan" wrote:
>
> I am one of this world's champion armchair travelers, having read most of
> the travel books that the local public library had on its shelves. Most
> recent travel books are not worth reading for any number of reasons, the
> main reason being the total lack of culture of the writer. Paul Theroux is
> just excellent and it is a joy to read him.
Well, I guess I beg to differ. I found reading 'Off the Rails' to be quite a
joyous adventure, with a reasonable level of insight and understanding of
the places they visited. Even better, covering some similar parts was
'Absudistan' by Eric Campbell. Not strictly a travel book as he was working
as a foreign correspondent and it's all about these experiences. A
vellously funny read, and very revealing about the wide range of places
he travelled to.
Paul Theroux - is that a cultured writer? Well I didn't get to finish his
book about the Mediterranean. I may have to give it another go. I found his
style to be too carping and cynical, I can't stand such a negative outlook
and I don't equate that with culture.
Cheers
Peter
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Feb 2006 07:14:14
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Signorini" <petesig@alphalink.com.au > wrote in message
news:43f5b782_4@news.chariot.net.au...
>
> "Edward Dolan" wrote:
>>
>> I am one of this world's champion armchair travelers, having read most of
>> the travel books that the local public library had on its shelves. Most
>> recent travel books are not worth reading for any number of reasons, the
>> main reason being the total lack of culture of the writer. Paul Theroux
>> is just excellent and it is a joy to read him.
>
> Well, I guess I beg to differ. I found reading 'Off the Rails' to be quite
> a joyous adventure, with a reasonable level of insight and understanding
> of the places they visited. Even better, covering some similar parts was
> 'Absudistan' by Eric Campbell. Not strictly a travel book as he was
> working as a foreign correspondent and it's all about these experiences. A
> vellously funny read, and very revealing about the wide range of places
> he travelled to.
>
> Paul Theroux - is that a cultured writer? Well I didn't get to finish his
> book about the Mediterranean. I may have to give it another go. I found
> his style to be too carping and cynical, I can't stand such a negative
> outlook and I don't equate that with culture.
I did not read 'Off the Rails' and I have no intention of reading it based
on what NYC had to say about it. I hate the kind of books that journalists
and amateurs write. They are only good for a column or two, maybe a magazine
article, but hardly ever a book. There are some exceptions of course.
Paul Theroux is not for everyone. I very much like his cynical and
depressing world view of nations and peoples because that is my view also.
Anything that reeks of the Chamber of Commerce is anathema to me. There is
no question, whether you like Theroux or not, that he is a writer and not a
scribbler like so many others.
Theroux also wrote a rather amusing book about walking the entire coast of
England. I rather admire someone who can think of doing something like that.
He rarely has anything good to say about anyone when you get right down to
it, but that is what I like about him.
The world is just full of bozos who lead very exciting lives, traveling or
otherwise, but they are not worth reading because they do not know how to
write about their adventures, let alone even how to think about their
adventures. In sum, they lack the requisite culture to interest anyone in
their lives. It is too bad because writers rarely lead very exciting lives.
But I can only read something that is well thought out and well written by a
real writer. I simply have no patience with anything less.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | |
Date: 18 Feb 2006 00:08:55
From: Peter Signorini
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"Peter Signorini" wrote:
> Even better, covering some similar parts was 'Absudistan' by Eric
> Campbell.
Oops! For anyone interested that should be 'Absurdistan'
Cheers
Peter
|
| |
Date: 15 Feb 2006 13:15:52
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: "Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly
|
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140029793.784652.289110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey, just got my copy of this just-reprinted chronicle of two Aussies'
> trek through Russia, Siberia, Mongolia, and China on their 'bents! I
> haven't read nothing yet -- don't even know what kinda 'bents they had
> -- but I am impressed by the COLOR photos which give the paperback a
> nice elegant touch. I hope for their next edition they turn this into
> some kind of coffee table sort of book!
>
> Y'all should check it out...it sounds like a great adventure
> story...I'll post back later on "technical" stuff from language arts to
> trip highlights as warranted...I'm curious if, since being picked up by
> the prestigious Penguin/Viking label, the account's been
> modified/edited (like maybe it was a typical crazyguyonabike.com
> journal previously and now reads better, etc.)....
I'm glad to see that NYC is finally using some discretion with regard to
cross-posting. It is OK to do this if it is done with your brain in gear.
NYC did this one right as far as I can tell. Congratulations!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
|
