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Main
Date: 16 Jul 2005 20:30:32
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Hi, All:
Why doesn't anyone make a recumbent with ALL these features?
26/26 wheels
alu/carb-fi/ti frame
disc brakes
>28 lbs.
***USS***
***SWB***
rear/front/dual suspension option
good adjustable seat with lumbar support and bag in back
AAAAAGGGRRRHHHHH!!
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 20:44:49
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Buck wrote:
>
>
> The weight is on the price list, 27lbs with fairly unexotic components.
>
> Could get the weight down more I expect.
They distinguish between what appears to be a "no-frills" "sports
weight" and a more likely quotidian "average weight" of 27 and 34
pounds, respectively.
What's the point of all that aluminum if it weighs like some chromoly
'bent??
And why does the "SL" version have a disc brake for the front only???
> --
>
> Buck
>
> I would rather be out on my Catrike
>
> http://www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 18 Jul 2005 07:15:48
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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On 07/18/2005 04:44:49 "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Buck wrote:
>> The weight is on the price list, 27lbs with fairly unexotic components.
>> Could get the weight down more I expect.
> They distinguish between what appears to be a "no-frills" "sports weight"
> and a more likely quotidian "average weight" of 27 and 34 pounds,
> respectively.
> What's the point of all that aluminum if it weighs like some chromoly
> 'bent??
> And why does the "SL" version have a disc brake for the front only???
The main frame tube is a large section and weighs a bit, typical
weight will include lights and fenders. A chro-mo would weigh a lot
more with all in.
--
Buck
I would rather be out on my Catrike
http://www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 20:36:58
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Arnold Ligtvoet wrote:
>
>
> The 'normal' Seiran is quoted at 15.5 kilo's (34 lbs), however the site
> (at least the Dutch one) also mentions a 'sport' version at 12.3 kilo's
> (27.06 lbs). This meets your requirements with regards to weight, right?
>
> Arnold.
Yes, thank you...makes me wonder, though: what's the point of all that
aluminum on the "normal" Seiran if it's all of 34 lbs. like any
chromoly affair?
I'll probably have to save up all winter for buying the "SL" Seiran
next spring....
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 15:07:36
From: JeffWills
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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NYC XYZ wrote:
> JeffWills wrote:
>
> Hey, cool! Didn't know Reynolds did 26/26 USS...but you know, looking
> at those pics, I have to wonder -- what's up with the posture? I'm
> totally new to 'bents (fooled ya, huh? LOL) and craning the neck like
> that looks extremely uncomfortable!
Some people can take some can't. Some people adjust to it, some don't.
YMMV, PhD, ROTFL...
My friend who owns the 20/700 USS T-Bone rode it in the 500+ mile Race
Across Oregon as part of a relay team. (His son owns the dual-700
T-Bone- nice family.) He had no problems training for the event- many
times riding centuries day-after-day.
BTW: all of the Reynolds bikes qualify as "SWB": the front wheel is
behind the cranks. That distiguishes them from "LWB" bikes, which have
the front wheel in front of the cranks. Actual wheelbase measurements
don't have a lot to do with the "SWB" and "LWB" designations. (And you
though uprights had their quirks...)
BTW2: The RAO relay team won the event outright, riding against some
pretty decent upright teams. Here's the Bentrideronline thread about
the event:
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=10065
Jeff
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 10:28:27
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Donn Cave wrote:
> !
>
> That page is mostly racing pictures. It isn't all about a comfy ride
> for these guys. The seats are adjustable, and if you look at the other
> five pages, they often sit more upright. "Recumenbent" does mean "laying
> down", though.
Which should suggest comfort...that's the main point of these bikes,
after all...why don't everyone sell a headrest option I don't know....
> hm ... Reynolds has made a LWB model, the "Nomad", but I don't think
> there are many of them and very unlikely to have been that 20"/700C bike.
> (He also makes a front wheel drive bike that sounds like a killer, but
> also extremely rare so far, unfortunately.) The more popular Wishbones
> and T-bones are SWB.
The T-Bone's SWB?? Couldn't tell from the pics! On bicycleman.com,
anyway...where's the T-Bone on the website?
That new Z-Bone, though...looks interesting! What's the point to
front-wheel drive? The site says it's an improvement somehow.
> I personally ride a LWB bike, for casual, utilitarian transportation in
> an urban area. I'm not absolutely sure it is less maneuverable - since
> my feet are a generous size 13, an SWB would probably give me heel strike
> problems on sharp turns, so while it could theoretically have a smaller
> turning radius, I can turn with more confidence on my LWB. At any rate,
> it isn't a problem I notice. Meanwhile I get a very comfortable, stable
> ride at any speed. The drawback is that it's long for a car-top rack.
>
> Donn
I'm anywhere from a size 10.5 to a full 12 (dress shoes, sneakers,
wetshoes, boots)...didn't think about heel strike...I've yet to try out
a recumbent! Am looking forward to it soon, though...right now, I'm
still doing "recon" -- so thanks for all your advice!
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Date: 18 Jul 2005 05:17:26
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Quoth "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >:
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Date: 18 Jul 2005 05:16:57
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Quoth "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >:
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:51:01
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Call me Bob wrote:
>
>
> The Seiran SL is quoted at 21lbs excluding seat pad and pedals.
Yeah, I saw that and my heart jumped, but then I remembered that that's
the premium SL version.
> It's currently only available with above seat steering, but Challenge
> state the USS version is in development right now.
>
> You can read a review of this bike at BentRiderOnline:
>
> http://www.bentrideronline.com/reviews/Seiran%20SL/Seiran%20SL.htm
>
> The Challenge page for the model is here:
>
> http://www.challengebikes.com/html/index.php?taal=3Den&selectie=3Dseirans=
l#
>
> ...and the pdf document which shows all of their SL series is here:
>
> http://www.challengebikes.com/documents/sl.pdf
Thanks, Bob! New to the recumbent scene, but had always been
interested...now that I've saved up a couple of thousand, I see that
that's just entry-level!
> Nice looking bikes.
Yup! But the devil's in the details...!
>
>
> "Bob"
> --
>
> "I will refuse to register for an ID card and will donate =A310
> to a legal defence fund but only if 10,000 other people will
> also make this same pledge." Phil Booth, NO2ID
>
> Join the Pledge !!
>
> http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse
>
> http://www.pledgebank.com/faq
>
>
> Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 21:48:11
From: Arnold Ligtvoet
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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NYC XYZ wrote:
> Call me Bob wrote:
>
>>
>>The Seiran SL is quoted at 21lbs excluding seat pad and pedals.
>
>
> Yeah, I saw that and my heart jumped, but then I remembered that that's
> the premium SL version.
>
The 'normal' Seiran is quoted at 15.5 kilo's (34 lbs), however the site
(at least the Dutch one) also mentions a 'sport' version at 12.3 kilo's
(27.06 lbs). This meets your requirements with regards to weight, right?
Arnold.
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:21:50
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Vee wrote:
>
> This almost meets your criteria:
> http://www.norco.com/05_us/bikes/vps_us.php
> (Check out the Team DH.)
>
> Reclined position, big wheels, suspension and disc brakes. I doubt you
> could get down to 28 lbs, but some 26x1" tires and boutique wheels
> would make it a little zippier.
>
> -Vee
Hey, thanks, but I meant that I wanted a 'bent, a recumbent! =)
Still, I love bikes, and this is a good one to keep in mind for a later
purchase...thanks!
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:19:11
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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JeffWills wrote:
> Where have you looked?
All over...the local NYC 'bent club's website's links...various
manufacturers...the local 'bent dealer...etc.
> I was out for a ride with a bunch of my recumbent-riding friends. One
> of them had a Reynolds T-Bone with dual 700C wheels. From what I can
> see, these have also been made with dual-26" wheels:
> http://www.reynoldsweldlabs.com/Pictures/Pics2/Pics2.htm
Hey, cool! Didn't know Reynolds did 26/26 USS...but you know, looking
at those pics, I have to wonder -- what's up with the posture? I'm
totally new to 'bents (fooled ya, huh? LOL) and craning the neck like
that looks extremely uncomfortable!
> He's also built 20"/700C bikes with USS, and he'll customize the bike
> to your tastes. There was one of these on today's ride, also.
>
> Jeff
Hey, thanks for the ref! But those don't look like SWBs, which I want
since I'm assuming those are more manuverable....
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 16:53:53
From: Donn Cave
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Quoth "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >:
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:14:52
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Werehatrack wrote:
>
>
> What, all three?
No, either one of the three (as usually denoted by the slash). =)
> Easily added to many; standard on some.
Well, okay, cool, then. Just didn't want to have to order a set and
discard the V-brakes that seem to usually come standard.
> How much did you say you wanted to spend, again?
Well, as less as possible. But I'm just curious if there's any such
creature out there. Surely there must be a HUGE ('bent) ket for all
those features in one bike!
> Some 'bent builders would have no problem filling this order (with the
> possible exception of the weight), but since 'bents aren't a major
> component of the off-the-shelf offerings at most bike shops, I can see
> why you'd have trouble finding one ready-made.
That's just the thing, though...I'm assuming that a lighter bike is an
inherently good thing, and alum/ti/carb-fi is strong...the USS is a
more "natural" position and seems to accord well with the physics of a
'bent (center of gravity issues and all that)...an adjustable seat with
good lumbar support is also a no-brainer, as well as making that seat
"double" with a built-in bag or pack behind it...disc brakes, for
power...26" wheels for speed and height/vantage-point...SWB for
manuverability...what's to argue with any of these criterion?
> --
> Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
> Some gardening required to reply via email.
> Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 18 Jul 2005 16:57:19
From: What Me Worry?
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121609692.966564.314030@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> How much did you say you wanted to spend, again?
>
> Well, as less as possible. But I'm just curious if there's any such
> creature out there. Surely there must be a HUGE ('bent) ket for all
> those features in one bike!
Actually, no. Features always cost more, and recumbents don't have anywhere
near the kind of sales volume that produces economies of scale.
ActionBents, for instance, are quite affordable; but still in the $650-$850
range, even though they are direct-keted in the US from an exclusive
west-coast distributor (ie: No expensive distribution and dealership network
to maintain.)
Because it would be neither particularly fast nor particularly light, the
bike you are asking for would retail for $5,000+, and would sell a handful
of units annually. Suspension bikes are always heavier and slower than
unsuspended models. Since recumbents aren't really offroad-friendly,
there's not much point in a suspension. Just use thicker seat padding, or
slightly fatter tires. Front shocks have received accolades from a select
few; but are not commonly found on production bikes.
>> Some 'bent builders would have no problem filling this order (with the
>> possible exception of the weight), but since 'bents aren't a major
>> component of the off-the-shelf offerings at most bike shops, I can see
>> why you'd have trouble finding one ready-made.
Yep.
> That's just the thing, though...I'm assuming that a lighter bike is an
> inherently good thing, and alum/ti/carb-fi is strong...the USS is a
> more "natural" position and seems to accord well with the physics of a
> 'bent (center of gravity issues and all that)...an adjustable seat with
> good lumbar support is also a no-brainer, as well as making that seat
> "double" with a built-in bag or pack behind it...disc brakes, for
> power...26" wheels for speed and height/vantage-point...SWB for
> manuverability...what's to argue with any of these criterion?
You have a great concept here. I agree with your basic design philosophies
as they relate to recumbents. You are right on the k. I have wondered
for years why carbon fiber is so scarce in the recumbent ket. I think it
has to do with profit gins: Recumbents are labor-intensive and built in
small batches. There's not much profit in them. Your design concept would
be a great product; but the materials would eat up profit gins. Shocks,
carbon fiber, titanium are all far costlier than straight-gauge 7005
aluminum tubing, which may explain why oversized 7005 alloy boom tubes are
fast becoming the standard on recumbents. Also note that recumbent
manufacturers have switched to an "ergo" seat design in recent years (those
who didn't already offer a lumbar support).
USS vs OSS: In my opinion, USS is vastly superior; but it's more expensive
to build and less "natural" for first-time 'bent riders - the majority of
the ket. ie: It doesn't sell as well.
SWB vs all others: SWB can be very, um, "exciting" at high speeds. Some
like that edgy feeling; but many do not. It doesn't surprise me that LWB
and CLWB designs are popular. There is also that "chopper look," which
suits more traditional riders who feel strange riding with the cranks
sticking out into the air ahead of the front wheel.
My suggestion: Draw up a prototype design, and shop it around to various
manufacturers. Maybe one of them will see things your way.
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:06:34
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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Hmmm...looks good...but what's the weight of the bike? Doesn't say on
Challenge's site.
(And thanks for the ref! I saw this on bicycleman.com but I had seen a
picture of the OSS variant only.)
Buck wrote:
>
>
> They do, it is called the Challenge Seiran.
>
> --
>
> Buck
>
> I would rather be out on my Catrike
>
> http://www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 20:00:38
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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On 07/17/2005 15:06:34 "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hmmm...looks good...but what's the weight of the bike? Doesn't say on
> Challenge's site.
> (And thanks for the ref! I saw this on bicycleman.com but I had seen a
> picture of the OSS variant only.)
The weight is on the price list, 27lbs with fairly unexotic components.
Could get the weight down more I expect.
--
Buck
I would rather be out on my Catrike
http://www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 14:33:17
From: Call me Bob
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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On 17 Jul 2005 07:06:34 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>Hmmm...looks good...but what's the weight of the bike? Doesn't say on
>Challenge's site.
The Seiran SL is quoted at 21lbs excluding seat pad and pedals.
It's currently only available with above seat steering, but Challenge
state the USS version is in development right now.
You can read a review of this bike at BentRiderOnline:
http://www.bentrideronline.com/reviews/Seiran%20SL/Seiran%20SL.htm
The Challenge page for the model is here:
http://www.challengebikes.com/html/index.php?taal=en&selectie=seiransl#
...and the pdf document which shows all of their SL series is here:
http://www.challengebikes.com/documents/sl.pdf
Nice looking bikes.
"Bob"
--
"I will refuse to register for an ID card and will donate £10
to a legal defence fund but only if 10,000 other people will
also make this same pledge." Phil Booth, NO2ID
Join the Pledge !!
http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse
http://www.pledgebank.com/faq
Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 06:58:52
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
|
db. wrote:
>
> I have a similar interest in what you're looking for and I"m leaning
> towards the Nazca Pioneer
Looks good, but "door problemen met de server is onze website momenteel
helaas niet te bereiken."
> It has rear suspension and suppose you could
> shock fork the front..for seat adjustment like what you are looking for
> there's the AZUB Extreme.
Yeah, unfortunately that thing's like, what, around 40 lbs.????
Besides, not sure how to order one in the US...seems all their dealers
are non-English-speaking.
> I don't think you'll get what you want right
> out of the box...What fun would that be?
Um...I get to ride the bike?
> my 2=A2
> db
Thanks for the advice!
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Date: 29 Jul 2005 21:56:52
From: Jasper Janssen
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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On 17 Jul 2005 06:58:52 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
>db. wrote:
>>
>> I have a similar interest in what you're looking for and I"m leaning
>> towards the Nazca Pioneer
>
>Looks good, but "door problemen met de server is onze website momenteel
>helaas niet te bereiken."
>
>> It has rear suspension and suppose you could
>> shock fork the front..for seat adjustment like what you are looking for
>> there's the AZUB Extreme.
>
>Yeah, unfortunately that thing's like, what, around 40 lbs.????
>
>Besides, not sure how to order one in the US...seems all their dealers
>are non-English-speaking.
If their servers speak Dutch, it's a good bet 90%+ of their dealers are
bilingual in Dutch and English.
Jasper
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 13:24:59
From: db.
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Hi, All:
>
> Why doesn't anyone make a recumbent with ALL these features?
>
> 26/26 wheels
>
> alu/carb-fi/ti frame
>
> disc brakes
>
>
>>28 lbs.
>
>
> ***USS***
>
> ***SWB***
>
> rear/front/dual suspension option
>
> good adjustable seat with lumbar support and bag in back
>
>
> AAAAAGGGRRRHHHHH!!
>
I have a similar interest in what you're looking for and I"m leaning
towards the Nazca Pioneer It has rear suspension and suppose you could
shock fork the front..for seat adjustment like what you are looking for
there's the AZUB Extreme. I don't think you'll get what you want right
out of the box...What fun would that be?
my 2¢
db
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 10:17:03
From: Buck
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
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On 07/17/2005 04:30:32 "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote:
Why doesn't anyone make a recumbent with ALL these features?
> 26/26 wheels
> alu/carb-fi/ti frame
> disc brakes
>> 28 lbs.
> ***USS***
> ***SWB***
> rear/front/dual suspension option
> good adjustable seat with lumbar support and bag in back
> AAAAAGGGRRRHHHHH!!
They do, it is called the Challenge Seiran.
--
Buck
I would rather be out on my Catrike
http://www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 17 Jul 2005 05:47:06
From: Werehatrack
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
|
On 16 Jul 2005 20:30:32 -0700, "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com >
wrote:
>
>Hi, All:
>
>Why doesn't anyone make a recumbent with ALL these features?
>
>26/26 wheels
>
>alu/carb-fi/ti frame
What, all three?
>disc brakes
Easily added to many; standard on some.
>>28 lbs.
>
>***USS***
>
>***SWB***
>
>rear/front/dual suspension option
>
>good adjustable seat with lumbar support and bag in back
How much did you say you wanted to spend, again?
Some 'bent builders would have no problem filling this order (with the
possible exception of the weight), but since 'bents aren't a major
component of the off-the-shelf offerings at most bike shops, I can see
why you'd have trouble finding one ready-made.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
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Date: 16 Jul 2005 20:53:31
From: JeffWills
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
|
Where have you looked?
I was out for a ride with a bunch of my recumbent-riding friends. One
of them had a Reynolds T-Bone with dual 700C wheels. From what I can
see, these have also been made with dual-26" wheels:
http://www.reynoldsweldlabs.com/Pictures/Pics2/Pics2.htm
He's also built 20"/700C bikes with USS, and he'll customize the bike
to your tastes. There was one of these on today's ride, also.
Jeff
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Hi, All:
>
> Why doesn't anyone make a recumbent with ALL these features?
>
> 26/26 wheels
>
> alu/carb-fi/ti frame
>
> disc brakes
>
> >28 lbs.
>
> ***USS***
>
> ***SWB***
>
> rear/front/dual suspension option
>
> good adjustable seat with lumbar support and bag in back
>
>
> AAAAAGGGRRRHHHHH!!
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Date: 16 Jul 2005 20:50:20
From: Vee
Subject: Re: Please Tell Me Why They Don't Make THIS!
|
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Hi, All:
>
> Why doesn't anyone make a recumbent with ALL these features?
>
> 26/26 wheels
>
> alu/carb-fi/ti frame
>
> disc brakes
>
> >28 lbs.
>
> ***USS***
>
> ***SWB***
>
> rear/front/dual suspension option
>
> good adjustable seat with lumbar support and bag in back
>
>
> AAAAAGGGRRRHHHHH!!
This almost meets your criteria:
http://www.norco.com/05_us/bikes/vps_us.php
(Check out the Team DH.)
Reclined position, big wheels, suspension and disc brakes. I doubt you
could get down to 28 lbs, but some 26x1" tires and boutique wheels
would make it a little zippier.
-Vee
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