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Main
Date: 01 Jun 2005 16:44:15
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Positive Traction Axel
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Hello everyone,
There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive traction
rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I can
get one of these axels.
Thanks for any help.
Jeff
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Date: 09 Jun 2005 11:28:56
From: Greg Nuspel
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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You could use two one way clutches
http://www.ringspann.de/uk/products/p8x/frltxt.htm
This way the faster wheel freewheels, you have positive drive to both on
ice etc.
Jeff Grippe wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive traction
> rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
>
> Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
>
> I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I can
> get one of these axels.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Jeff
>
>
--
Greg Nuspel
The frog does not drink up the pond in which he lives. ~Indian Proverb
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Date: 06 Jun 2005 08:34:05
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
> Thank you for making that clearer.
>
> So What I'm looking to build if I understand correctly is a freewheel with a
> single cog on a jackshaft. This would allow power to be transmitted to one
> or both wheels and also allow the wheels to turn independently for
> cornering, etc.
>
> This would then also allow me to "mid mount" some sort of tranmission (a
> rohloff speedhub is what I'm thinking of) to provide gearing.
>
> Does this sound correct?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Jeff
Yes. This is the arrangement used by the Crank-It, I believe.
Other Jeff
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Date: 05 Jun 2005 15:28:12
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
> Sir Speedy,
>
> Not quite but close. I think I need a vocabulary lesson. When someone says
> "freewheel" I am thinking of a cluster of rings that are found on the rear
> of a bicycle who specs are quoted as 12-19 or 14-32, etc. I beginning to
> think that these things that are commonly called freewheels are not actually
> the essence of what a freewheel is.
>
A "freewheel" in bicycle terminology is anything that allows you to
turn the chain in one direction without turning the wheel. In this
case, we're talking about a unit with one cog that the chain runs on.
These are common on BMX bikes and single-speed mountain bikes. Over the
years, there have been "freewheels" with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8
cogs, but they all work in essentially the same fashion.
> I also don't know what a "jack shaft" is.
>
In terms of what we're talking about, a jackshaft has sprockets at both
ends, which allows you to transmit power to one side or the other of a
chain.
Other Jeff
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Date: 05 Jun 2005 19:03:49
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Thank you for making that clearer.
So What I'm looking to build if I understand correctly is a freewheel with a
single cog on a jackshaft. This would allow power to be transmitted to one
or both wheels and also allow the wheels to turn independently for
cornering, etc.
This would then also allow me to "mid mount" some sort of tranmission (a
rohloff speedhub is what I'm thinking of) to provide gearing.
Does this sound correct?
Thanks again.
Jeff
"Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com > wrote in message
news:1118010492.895000.3490@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jeff Grippe wrote:
>> Sir Speedy,
>>
>> Not quite but close. I think I need a vocabulary lesson. When someone
>> says
>> "freewheel" I am thinking of a cluster of rings that are found on the
>> rear
>> of a bicycle who specs are quoted as 12-19 or 14-32, etc. I beginning to
>> think that these things that are commonly called freewheels are not
>> actually
>> the essence of what a freewheel is.
>>
>
> A "freewheel" in bicycle terminology is anything that allows you to
> turn the chain in one direction without turning the wheel. In this
> case, we're talking about a unit with one cog that the chain runs on.
> These are common on BMX bikes and single-speed mountain bikes. Over the
> years, there have been "freewheels" with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8
> cogs, but they all work in essentially the same fashion.
>
>
>> I also don't know what a "jack shaft" is.
>>
>
> In terms of what we're talking about, a jackshaft has sprockets at both
> ends, which allows you to transmit power to one side or the other of a
> chain.
>
> Other Jeff
>
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Date: 03 Jun 2005 11:50:58
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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bent_pilot wrote:
>
> Do they mount the freewheels the same direction, or rebuild the left one so
> it has reversed pawls?
I would assume they're mounted in the "normal" orientation, or one side
uses an ACS "Southpaw" left-side freewheel. Reversing the pawls sounds
like a pretty hairy operation to me.
Jeff
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Date: 03 Jun 2005 11:20:59
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
> "Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com> wrote in message
>
> > It would be helpful to know where you saw these, but many
> > two-wheel-drive-rear axles are built by the manufacturer. You'll have
> > to talk directly to them.
> >
> > "Positive traction" sometimes means that that power is supplied to both
> > rear wheels through independant freewheels instead of a differential.
> > This arrangement allows the outside wheel to turn faster than the
> > drivetrain when the vehicle is turning.
>
> This is exactly what I am looking for. The Mountain Quad from Crank It
> (www.crank-it.com) and the Rhoades Car (I don't have the URL handy) both
> have this feature. I have emailed both of them and neither has responded. I
> assume that they didn't respond because I wasn't a potential buyer but I
> don't actually know whey they didn't respond.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
The Crank-It's rear axle uses dual freewheels to allow the outside
wheel to spin faster in a turn, as I said above. The Rhoades Car uses a
similar setup as far as I can tell, but their website is darn short on
details. Both systems are integral with their vehicle designs and
probably not available seperately.
You might also want to contact Worksman: http://www.worksman.com/ to
see if their rear axle is available seperately. I think they have
two-wheel-drive units, but I'm not certain.
Other Jeff
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Date: 03 Jun 2005 13:26:52
From: bent_pilot
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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"Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com > wrote in message
news:1117822859.525027.66800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Jeff Grippe wrote:
>> "Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > It would be helpful to know where you saw these, but many
>> > two-wheel-drive-rear axles are built by the manufacturer. You'll have
>> > to talk directly to them.
>> >
>> > "Positive traction" sometimes means that that power is supplied to both
>> > rear wheels through independant freewheels instead of a differential.
>> > This arrangement allows the outside wheel to turn faster than the
>> > drivetrain when the vehicle is turning.
>>
>> This is exactly what I am looking for. The Mountain Quad from Crank It
>> (www.crank-it.com) and the Rhoades Car (I don't have the URL handy) both
>> have this feature. I have emailed both of them and neither has responded.
>> I
>> assume that they didn't respond because I wasn't a potential buyer but I
>> don't actually know whey they didn't respond.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jeff
>
> The Crank-It's rear axle uses dual freewheels to allow the outside
> wheel to spin faster in a turn, as I said above. The Rhoades Car uses a
> similar setup as far as I can tell, but their website is darn short on
> details. Both systems are integral with their vehicle designs and
> probably not available seperately.
>
> You might also want to contact Worksman: http://www.worksman.com/ to
> see if their rear axle is available seperately. I think they have
> two-wheel-drive units, but I'm not certain.
>
> Other Jeff
>
Do they mount the freewheels the same direction, or rebuild the left one so
it has reversed pawls?
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Date: 02 Jun 2005 17:36:33
From:
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
>
> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive traction
> rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
I don't see it on their website right now, but Lightfoot at least used
to offer it as an option on all their trikes. Maybe they still do.
Might be worth dropping them a line -
http://www.lightfootcycles.com/trikes.htm
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Date: 02 Jun 2005 13:48:04
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive traction
> rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
>
> Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
>
> I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I can
> get one of these axels.
>
It would be helpful to know where you saw these, but many
two-wheel-drive-rear axles are built by the manufacturer. You'll have
to talk directly to them.
"Positive traction" sometimes means that that power is supplied to both
rear wheels through independant freewheels instead of a differential.
This arrangement allows the outside wheel to turn faster than the
drivetrain when the vehicle is turning. This isn't a true
"positraction" differential, where power is distributed proportionally
to both wheels unless one wheel start slipping, at which point the
"posi" kicks in and allows the non-slipping wheel to power the vehicle.
Jeff
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Date: 03 Jun 2005 13:16:18
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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"Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com > wrote in message
> It would be helpful to know where you saw these, but many
> two-wheel-drive-rear axles are built by the manufacturer. You'll have
> to talk directly to them.
>
> "Positive traction" sometimes means that that power is supplied to both
> rear wheels through independant freewheels instead of a differential.
> This arrangement allows the outside wheel to turn faster than the
> drivetrain when the vehicle is turning.
This is exactly what I am looking for. The Mountain Quad from Crank It
(www.crank-it.com) and the Rhoades Car (I don't have the URL handy) both
have this feature. I have emailed both of them and neither has responded. I
assume that they didn't respond because I wasn't a potential buyer but I
don't actually know whey they didn't respond.
Thanks,
Jeff
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Date: 03 Jun 2005 16:04:48
From: S. Delaire \Rotatorrecumbent\
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Mountain Quad may be out of production
Their system works from 2 BMX freewheels inside the drive sprocket.
In bicycle land it is called "dominate drive"
In the car world it is a "Detroit locker"
Can be cheaply done by driving a "jack shaft" next to the rear axle and then 2
chains to right and left axle half, 1 BMX freewheel on each side. On the axle
or jack shaft, doesn't matter.
Make sense?
Speedy
Jeff Grippe wrote:
> "Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com> wrote in message
>
> > It would be helpful to know where you saw these, but many
> > two-wheel-drive-rear axles are built by the manufacturer. You'll have
> > to talk directly to them.
> >
> > "Positive traction" sometimes means that that power is supplied to both
> > rear wheels through independant freewheels instead of a differential.
> > This arrangement allows the outside wheel to turn faster than the
> > drivetrain when the vehicle is turning.
>
> This is exactly what I am looking for. The Mountain Quad from Crank It
> (www.crank-it.com) and the Rhoades Car (I don't have the URL handy) both
> have this feature. I have emailed both of them and neither has responded. I
> assume that they didn't respond because I wasn't a potential buyer but I
> don't actually know whey they didn't respond.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
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Date: 05 Jun 2005 08:56:11
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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"S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent"" <rotator@neteze.com > wrote in message
news:42A0E210.B726E27D@neteze.com...
> Mountain Quad may be out of production
> Their system works from 2 BMX freewheels inside the drive sprocket.
> In bicycle land it is called "dominate drive"
> In the car world it is a "Detroit locker"
> Can be cheaply done by driving a "jack shaft" next to the rear axle and
> then 2
> chains to right and left axle half, 1 BMX freewheel on each side. On the
> axle
> or jack shaft, doesn't matter.
> Make sense?
> Speedy
Sir Speedy,
Not quite but close. I think I need a vocabulary lesson. When someone says
"freewheel" I am thinking of a cluster of rings that are found on the rear
of a bicycle who specs are quoted as 12-19 or 14-32, etc. I beginning to
think that these things that are commonly called freewheels are not actually
the essence of what a freewheel is.
I also don't know what a "jack shaft" is.
Now having my ignorance I'll bet if you were to educate me a little further
I might be able to do this. Please tell me more if you please?
Mountain Quad out of production? Really? Why do you say that? I don't
imagine it is easy selling $8,000 bicycles no matter how interesting they
are.
Regards,
Jeff
PS this is posted to the group and CC'd to you so that you would see it. It
would probably be best to respond to the group. Many thanks.
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Date: 02 Jun 2005 09:42:59
From: bent_pilot
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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Must be some kind of limited slip kind of deviceor else you wouldn't be able
to turn. Sounds $$$$.
"Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com > wrote in message
news:119s7i5e71tqed0@news.supernews.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive
> traction rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
>
> Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
>
> I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I can
> get one of these axels.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Jeff
>
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Date: 02 Jun 2005 10:50:15
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
|
I'm looking at this for a rear axel so turning isn't necessary.
Thanks,
Jeff
"bent_pilot" <bp@gofast.com > wrote in message
news:429f1bd5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
> Must be some kind of limited slip kind of deviceor else you wouldn't be
> able to turn. Sounds $$$$.
> "Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com> wrote in message
> news:119s7i5e71tqed0@news.supernews.com...
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive
>> traction rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
>>
>> Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
>>
>> I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I
>> can get one of these axels.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
>
>
>
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Date: 02 Jun 2005 12:05:03
From: bent_pilot
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
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If the rear is the drive axle, you have to have a differential or you won't
be able to turn, because unlike in a race car with a posi rear, you don't
have the HP or torque to break rear wheel traction!
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:119u74vpkcsu8b@news.supernews.com...
> I'm looking at this for a rear axel so turning isn't necessary.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
> "bent_pilot" <bp@gofast.com> wrote in message
> news:429f1bd5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
>> Must be some kind of limited slip kind of deviceor else you wouldn't be
>> able to turn. Sounds $$$$.
>> "Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com> wrote in message
>> news:119s7i5e71tqed0@news.supernews.com...
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive
>>> traction rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
>>>
>>> I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I
>>> can get one of these axels.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Date: 08 Jun 2005 01:25:00
From: 25hz
Subject: Re: Positive Traction Axel
|
As soon as you start turning, it's quite likely, even at low speeds, that
the inside wheel will be unweighted enough that turning will be no problem,
poitrac or not.
"bent_pilot" <bp@gofast.com > wrote in message
news:429f3d21$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
> If the rear is the drive axle, you have to have a differential or you
won't
> be able to turn, because unlike in a race car with a posi rear, you don't
> have the HP or torque to break rear wheel traction!
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
> news:119u74vpkcsu8b@news.supernews.com...
> > I'm looking at this for a rear axel so turning isn't necessary.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jeff
> > "bent_pilot" <bp@gofast.com> wrote in message
> > news:429f1bd5$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net...
> >> Must be some kind of limited slip kind of deviceor else you wouldn't be
> >> able to turn. Sounds $$$$.
> >> "Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com> wrote in message
> >> news:119s7i5e71tqed0@news.supernews.com...
> >>> Hello everyone,
> >>>
> >>> There are some trikes and quads on the ket that have a positive
> >>> traction rear axel that supplies drive to both wheels.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone know where these can be purchased?
> >>>
> >>> I have a trike that I'm thinking of building into a quad but only if I
> >>> can get one of these axels.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any help.
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
=---
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