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Main
Date: 15 Jun 2007 15:32:51
From: Donald Gillies
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net > writes:
>This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>
>Bill Baka
This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 05:24:13
From: andresmuro@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On Jun 19, 1:58 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com >
wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:52:08 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Yes, we should surge to several hundred thousand more troops to Iraq and
> >kill however many that need to be killed.
>
> When you turn 18 are you going to enlist?
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************
When we say "we", we really don't mean "we". We mean poor kids from
small towns.
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 11:28:47
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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<andresmuro@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1182255853.066022.55780@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 19, 1:58 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:52:08 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Yes, we should surge to several hundred thousand more troops to Iraq and
>> >kill however many that need to be killed.
>>
>> When you turn 18 are you going to enlist?
>
> When we say "we", we really don't mean "we". We mean poor kids from
> small towns.
That is not true. There are any number of warrior types from all kinds of
backgrounds who delight in being soldiers and who want nothing more than to
kill our enemies. Thank God we have them.
But not all of us can be soldiers. What the rest of us can do is to make
sure that our soldiers are the best trained and best equipped in the world.
I do not ever want to see a conscript military again. Our professional
military is the best in the world and we should use it as much as possible
to kick ass in the world. That is what being the number 1 super power is all
about.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 21:46:27
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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"Donald Gillies" <gillies@cs.ubc.ca > wrote in message
news:f4v42j$jqk$1@cascade.cs.ubc.ca...
> Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>>This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>>away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>>radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>>Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>>
>>Bill Baka
>
> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
Nope, the Dems, if they come to power, will not do much different than the
Repubs. The reason for it is because we have eternal interests in the
Middle East as long as we are dependent on their oil.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> >>> >Nazis.
>
> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> >>> >political power.
>
> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>
> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>
> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
> >truly delusional.
>
> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
> comparison you are making.
Reading comprehension problem, eh?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:06:41
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182084667.276693.194820@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political
>> >>> >power.
>>
>> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >>> >political power.
>>
>> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>> >truly delusional.
>>
>> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
>> comparison you are making.
>
> Reading comprehension problem, eh?
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 13:08:18
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>
>> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >>> >political power.
>>
>> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>> >truly delusional.
>>
>> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
>> comparison you are making.
>
>Reading comprehension problem, eh?
Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
"Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
meant to be sarcastic?
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 22:16:50
From:
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
2008 is the national emergency !
Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 15, 9:37 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> > Johnny Sunset wrote in message
> >
> > news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
> >
> > >> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> > >> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> > >> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
> >
> > > If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
> > > .....
> >
> > Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
>
> Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
> killed 50+ million people?
>
> > http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
> >
> > Try to be a little more creative. 8)
>
> WTF does being creative have do to with anything, when there are
> plenty of historical precedents?
>
> Quotes by George W. Bush:
>
> "You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
> easier." (Governing Magazine 7/98)
>
> "I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
> agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
> would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the
> dictator." (CNN.com, December 18, 2000)
>
> "A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
> about it" (Business Week, July 30, 2001)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
> discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
> Conason
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 22:15:15
From:
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 15, 9:37 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> > Johnny Sunset wrote in message
> >
> > news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
> >
> > >> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> > >> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> > >> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
> >
> > > If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
> > > .....
> >
> > Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
>
> Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
> killed 50+ million people?
>
> > http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
> >
> > Try to be a little more creative. 8)
>
> WTF does being creative have do to with anything, when there are
> plenty of historical precedents?
>
> Quotes by George W. Bush:
>
> "You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
> easier." (Governing Magazine 7/98)
>
> "I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
> agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
> would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the
> dictator." (CNN.com, December 18, 2000)
>
> "A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
> about it" (Business Week, July 30, 2001)
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
> discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
> Conason
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 21:13:30
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 16, 10:10 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>
> news:1182029581.904088.141970@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> >...
>
> >> So, you're saying that, not only are George Bush et al, guilty of any
> >> number
> >> of crimes in the PAST, they're now guilty of any number of crimes in the
> >> FUTURE - crimes having no requirement for definition other than your
> >> fertile
> >> imagination?
> > ...
> > No, and it is a sleazy debating tactic to say so.
> > ...
>
> I didn't know that we were debating. Anyway, YOUR comment is the sleazy
> debating tactic. Prefacing your reply by calling my valid, albeit mildly
> rhetorical question sleazy is sleazy in itself.
[YAWN]
> > Let us look at past behavior. The administration was asleep at the
> > ....
>
> The point in my original post is that there were people accusing Clinton of
> planning to use Y2K as his Reichstag Fire. Someone accusing an
> administration they don't like of planning and coniving to maintain power is
> nothing new - and none of the accusers have ever apologized for their
> comments after there was an orderly transition to the next administration.
>
> Regardless, let's assume that what you say is true. Let's say that there's
> planning and scheming going on right now in the current administration in
> preparation for this takeover. What is your purpose in posting your
> speculation? Do you have a proposal to implement that will stop this
> "Reichstag Fire" from happening? Are you trying to garner support for your
> preventative measures?
Mostly I post things like this because it annoys those who pretend to
be in the moral right, but at some level know they are not. This is
Usenet, after all.
> > Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> > Nazis.
> > ....
>
> Godwin's Law : "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
> comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Nothing there about
> appropriateness. We've now reached "one".
Look up the discussions on Godwin's Law, and you will see
appropriateness mentioned.
> > The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> > The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> > political power.
>
> > How is the comparison inappropriate?
> > ...
>
> The comparison feeds your imagination and makes George Bush et al guilty by
> default of any and everything you conclude will/could happen with no need
> for evidence that it actually happened.....because it's in the FUTURE. If
> it's important to denigrate the Bush administration, the PAST should be
> plenty enough for you to work with.
September 11, 2001 is in the future??? Wow!!!
The PATRIOT ACT is in the future? The violation of habeas corpus for
United States citizens Jose Padilla and Yasar Hamdi is in the future?
The US invasion of Iraq is in the future? The Military Commissions Act
of 2006 is in the future? Recording the phone calls of United States
citizens by the NSA without warrants is in the future? Bush declaring
that he can interpret laws passed by Congress in signing statements is
in the future? The approval of torture is in the future?
The comparison was based on past behavior, but someone was too quick
in trying to score cheap Usenet points.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:10:27
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182053610.362888.42720@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 10:10 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> news:1182029581.904088.141970@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> >...
>>
>> >> So, you're saying that, not only are George Bush et al, guilty of any
>> >> number
>> >> of crimes in the PAST, they're now guilty of any number of crimes in
>> >> the
>> >> FUTURE - crimes having no requirement for definition other than your
>> >> fertile
>> >> imagination?
>> > ...
>> > No, and it is a sleazy debating tactic to say so.
>> > ...
>>
>> I didn't know that we were debating. Anyway, YOUR comment is the sleazy
>> debating tactic. Prefacing your reply by calling my valid, albeit mildly
>> rhetorical question sleazy is sleazy in itself.
>
> [YAWN]
>
>> > Let us look at past behavior. The administration was asleep at the
>> > ....
>>
>> The point in my original post is that there were people accusing Clinton
>> of
>> planning to use Y2K as his Reichstag Fire. Someone accusing an
>> administration they don't like of planning and coniving to maintain power
>> is
>> nothing new - and none of the accusers have ever apologized for their
>> comments after there was an orderly transition to the next
>> administration.
>>
>> Regardless, let's assume that what you say is true. Let's say that
>> there's
>> planning and scheming going on right now in the current administration in
>> preparation for this takeover. What is your purpose in posting your
>> speculation? Do you have a proposal to implement that will stop this
>> "Reichstag Fire" from happening? Are you trying to garner support for
>> your
>> preventative measures?
>
> Mostly I post things like this because it annoys those who pretend to
> be in the moral right, but at some level know they are not. This is
> Usenet, after all.
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
>> > Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> > Nazis.
>> > ....
>>
>> Godwin's Law : "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of
>> a
>> comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Nothing there
>> about
>> appropriateness. We've now reached "one".
>
> Look up the discussions on Godwin's Law, and you will see
> appropriateness mentioned.
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
>> > The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>
>> > The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> > political power.
>>
>> > How is the comparison inappropriate?
>> > ...
>>
>> The comparison feeds your imagination and makes George Bush et al guilty
>> by
>> default of any and everything you conclude will/could happen with no need
>> for evidence that it actually happened.....because it's in the FUTURE.
>> If
>> it's important to denigrate the Bush administration, the PAST should be
>> plenty enough for you to work with.
>
> September 11, 2001 is in the future??? Wow!!!
>
> The PATRIOT ACT is in the future? The violation of habeas corpus for
> United States citizens Jose Padilla and Yasar Hamdi is in the future?
> The US invasion of Iraq is in the future? The Military Commissions Act
> of 2006 is in the future? Recording the phone calls of United States
> citizens by the NSA without warrants is in the future? Bush declaring
> that he can interpret laws passed by Congress in signing statements is
> in the future? The approval of torture is in the future?
>
> The comparison was based on past behavior, but someone was too quick
> in trying to score cheap Usenet points.
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 16, 5:17 pm, R Brickston wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:33:01 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>
> >>news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > ...
> >> > Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
> >> > killed 50+ million people?
> >> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
>
> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> >Nazis.
>
> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> >political power.
>
> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>
> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
> President of the United States has ever taken.
Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
truly delusional.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
Rationality, as the primary cognitive system for comprehending our
world, has been rejected in favor of unyielding dogmatic belief. -
David Michael Green
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:05:49
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182033907.777944.221050@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 5:17 pm, R Brickston wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:33:01 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> >On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> >> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > ...
>> >> > Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
>> >> > killed 50+ million people?
>> >> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
>>
>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>
>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >political power.
>>
>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>
> Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
> believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
> truly delusional.
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 22:59:25
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Jun 16, 5:17 pm, R Brickston wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:33:01 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> >On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> >> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > ...
>> >> > Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
>> >> > killed 50+ million people?
>> >> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
>>
>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>
>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >political power.
>>
>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>
>Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>truly delusional.
Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
comparison you are making.
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Jun 2007 11:54:48
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
>On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
><sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>>> >Nazis.
>>>
>>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>>
>>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>>> >political power.
>>>
>>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>>
>>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>truly delusional.
Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
comparison you are making.
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 18:28:49
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
R Brickston wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 16, 5:17 pm, R Brickston wrote:
>>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:33:01 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
>>>> On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>>>>> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed
>>>>>> that killed 50+ million people?
>>>>> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
>>>
>>>> Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>>>> Nazis.
>>>
>>>> The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political
>>>> power.
>>>
>>>> The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>>>> political power.
>>>
>>>> How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>>
>>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very
>>> night and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in
>>> someone's wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in
>>> fact, *any* President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>> believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>> truly delusional.
>
> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
> comparison you are making.
Neither does he. HTH!
|
| |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 14:33:01
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>
> news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > ...
> > Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
> > killed 50+ million people?
> > ...
>
> So, you're saying that, not only are George Bush et al, guilty of any number
> of crimes in the PAST, they're now guilty of any number of crimes in the
> FUTURE - crimes having no requirement for definition other than your fertile
> imagination?
No, and it is a sleazy debating tactic to say so.
Let us look at past behavior. The administration was asleep at the
wheel, and let September 11, 2001 happen. They managed to spin that
into Bush being a great leader, then followed up by violating the
"supremacy clause" of the US Constitution by launching an aggressive
war of conquest, implementing an illegal surveillance program of US
citizens, violating the habeas corpus rights of US citizens, and
claiming rights for the executive branch far beyond those allotted by
the US Constitution.
Is it such a stretch to imagine the POSSIBILITY of such people doing
whatever it takes to hold onto power?
> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
Nazis.
The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
political power.
How is the comparison inappropriate?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
Conason
|
| | |
Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:05:11
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182029581.904088.141970@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > ...
>> > Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
>> > killed 50+ million people?
>> > ...
>>
>> So, you're saying that, not only are George Bush et al, guilty of any
>> number
>> of crimes in the PAST, they're now guilty of any number of crimes in the
>> FUTURE - crimes having no requirement for definition other than your
>> fertile
>> imagination?
>
> No, and it is a sleazy debating tactic to say so.
>
> Let us look at past behavior. The administration was asleep at the
> wheel, and let September 11, 2001 happen. They managed to spin that
> into Bush being a great leader, then followed up by violating the
> "supremacy clause" of the US Constitution by launching an aggressive
> war of conquest, implementing an illegal surveillance program of US
> citizens, violating the habeas corpus rights of US citizens, and
> claiming rights for the executive branch far beyond those allotted by
> the US Constitution.
>
> Is it such a stretch to imagine the POSSIBILITY of such people doing
> whatever it takes to hold onto power?
>
>> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
>
> Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> Nazis.
>
> The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> political power.
>
> How is the comparison inappropriate?
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 17 Jun 2007 03:10:48
From: Chuck Davis
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182029581.904088.141970@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>...
>>
>> So, you're saying that, not only are George Bush et al, guilty of any
>> number
>> of crimes in the PAST, they're now guilty of any number of crimes in the
>> FUTURE - crimes having no requirement for definition other than your
>> fertile
>> imagination?
> ...
> No, and it is a sleazy debating tactic to say so.
> ...
I didn't know that we were debating. Anyway, YOUR comment is the sleazy
debating tactic. Prefacing your reply by calling my valid, albeit mildly
rhetorical question sleazy is sleazy in itself.
> Let us look at past behavior. The administration was asleep at the
> ....
The point in my original post is that there were people accusing Clinton of
planning to use Y2K as his Reichstag Fire. Someone accusing an
administration they don't like of planning and coniving to maintain power is
nothing new - and none of the accusers have ever apologized for their
comments after there was an orderly transition to the next administration.
Regardless, let's assume that what you say is true. Let's say that there's
planning and scheming going on right now in the current administration in
preparation for this takeover. What is your purpose in posting your
speculation? Do you have a proposal to implement that will stop this
"Reichstag Fire" from happening? Are you trying to garner support for your
preventative measures?
> ...
> Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> Nazis.
> ....
Godwin's Law : "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Nothing there about
appropriateness. We've now reached "one".
> The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> political power.
>
> How is the comparison inappropriate?
> ...
The comparison feeds your imagination and makes George Bush et al guilty by
default of any and everything you conclude will/could happen with no need
for evidence that it actually happened.....because it's in the FUTURE. If
it's important to denigrate the Bush administration, the PAST should be
plenty enough for you to work with.
ChuckD
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 22:17:51
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:33:01 -0700, Johnny Sunset
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Jun 16, 3:59 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > ...
>> > Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
>> > killed 50+ million people?
>> BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
>
>Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>Nazis.
>
>The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
>The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>political power.
>
>How is the comparison inappropriate?
Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
President of the United States has ever taken.
|
| |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 06:10:52
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 16, 7:48 am, R Brickston wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:02:08 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
> >On Jun 15, 9:37 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> >> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>
> >>news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>
> >> >> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> >> >> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> >> >> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
> >> > If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
> >> > .....
>
> >> Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
>
> >Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
> >killed 50+ million people?
>
> >>http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
>
> >> Try to be a little more creative. 8)
>
> >WTF does being creative have do to with anything, when there are
> >plenty of historical precedents?
>
> >Quotes by George W. Bush:
>
> >"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
> >easier." (Governing Magazine 7/98)
>
> >"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
> >agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
> >would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the
> >dictator." (CNN.com, December 18, 2000)
>
> >"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
> >about it" (Business Week, July 30, 2001)
>
> I'm guessing that every one of these quotes does not convey the true
> context. Convenient for the easily misguided, though.
The quotes are totally inappropriate considering the source, even if
meant to be humor.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
Conason
|
| | |
Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:03:14
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1181999452.904545.54320@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 7:48 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:02:08 -0700, Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> >On Jun 15, 9:37 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> >> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>>
>> >> >> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>> >> >> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new
>> >> >> president
>> >> >> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>>
>> >> > If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
>> >> > .....
>>
>> >> Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
>>
>> >Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
>> >killed 50+ million people?
>>
>> >>http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
>>
>> >> Try to be a little more creative. 8)
>>
>> >WTF does being creative have do to with anything, when there are
>> >plenty of historical precedents?
>>
>> >Quotes by George W. Bush:
>>
>> >"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
>> >easier." (Governing Magazine 7/98)
>>
>> >"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
>> >agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
>> >would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the
>> >dictator." (CNN.com, December 18, 2000)
>>
>> >"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
>> >about it" (Business Week, July 30, 2001)
>>
>> I'm guessing that every one of these quotes does not convey the true
>> context. Convenient for the easily misguided, though.
>
> The quotes are totally inappropriate considering the source, even if
> meant to be humor.
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 05:02:08
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 15, 9:37 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>
> news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>
> >> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> >> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> >> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
> > If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
> > .....
>
> Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
killed 50+ million people?
> http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
>
> Try to be a little more creative. 8)
WTF does being creative have do to with anything, when there are
plenty of historical precedents?
Quotes by George W. Bush:
"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
easier." (Governing Magazine 7/98)
"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the
dictator." (CNN.com, December 18, 2000)
"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
about it" (Business Week, July 30, 2001)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"The real danger is whenever we start talking with our enemies, we may
discover potential areas of compromise or even agreement." - Joe
Conason
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 20:59:38
From: Chuck Davis
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1181995328.034578.246180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> ...
> Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
> killed 50+ million people?
> ...
So, you're saying that, not only are George Bush et al, guilty of any number
of crimes in the PAST, they're now guilty of any number of crimes in the
FUTURE - crimes having no requirement for definition other than your fertile
imagination?
BTW - Nice way to sidestep Godwin's Law.
ChuckD
|
| | | |
Date: 17 Jun 2007 07:51:28
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 17, 9:33 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ > wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:42:14 -0700, Johnny Sunset
>
>
>
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 17, 8:08 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
> >> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
> >> >> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >> >> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> >> >> >>> >Nazis.
>
> >> >> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> >> >> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> >> >> >>> >political power.
>
> >> >> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>
> >> >> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
> >> >> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
> >> >> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
> >> >> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>
> >> >> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
> >> >> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
> >> >> >truly delusional.
>
> >> >> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
> >> >> comparison you are making.
>
> >> >Reading comprehension problem, eh?
>
> >> Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
>
> >> "Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
> >> Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
> >> meant to be sarcastic?
>
> >It is an action in common between Germany under Hitler (several
> >Eurasian countries) and the US under Bush II (Iraq).
>
> The subject is the Reichstag Fire and actions by Hitler and 9-11 and
> actions by Bush and wether the comparison is applicable.
>
> Rather than labor at putting this in my own words, haviong read the
> excellent treatise on the subject in John Toland's Adolph Hitler, I'll
> simply quote Wickipedia:
>
> The day after the Reichstag Fire "Hitler forced President Hindenburg
> to pass an 'emergency decree' suspending all articles that guaranteed
> freedom and liberty. Hitler's police were then allowed to seize
> property and take people without any sort of trial. The death penalty
> was introduced again for many crimes and concentration camps were set
> up. The Nazis' twelve year terror over their opponents had started."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire
>
> Your comparison of Hitler's Reichstag Fire actions to Bush and 9-11 is
> ill founded beyond the pale and one would think an inappropriate
> vehicle to the threads discussion.
The United States (by self proclamation) is supposed to set the moral
standard for the rest of the world. Therefore, it is all the more
egregious when the US violates moral norms on due process and torture.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Americans will terrorize themselves. They will constrict their
precious civil liberties. They will eventually bring their society to
a state that is not recognizable with what it was before September
11th." - Usama bin Laden
|
| | | | |
Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:08:19
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182091888.924571.177570@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 17, 9:33 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:42:14 -0700, Johnny Sunset
>>
>>
>>
>> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 17, 8:08 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>>
>> >> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> >> >> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>> >> >> >wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler
>> >> >> >>> >and/or
>> >> >> >>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political
>> >> >> >>> >power.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase
>> >> >> >>> >their
>> >> >> >>> >political power.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> >> >> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very
>> >> >> >>> night
>> >> >> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in
>> >> >> >>> someone's
>> >> >> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact,
>> >> >> >>> *any*
>> >> >> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> >> >> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If
>> >> >> >you
>> >> >> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you
>> >> >> >are
>> >> >> >truly delusional.
>>
>> >> >> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
>> >> >> comparison you are making.
>>
>> >> >Reading comprehension problem, eh?
>>
>> >> Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
>>
>> >> "Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
>> >> Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
>> >> meant to be sarcastic?
>>
>> >It is an action in common between Germany under Hitler (several
>> >Eurasian countries) and the US under Bush II (Iraq).
>>
>> The subject is the Reichstag Fire and actions by Hitler and 9-11 and
>> actions by Bush and wether the comparison is applicable.
>>
>> Rather than labor at putting this in my own words, haviong read the
>> excellent treatise on the subject in John Toland's Adolph Hitler, I'll
>> simply quote Wickipedia:
>>
>> The day after the Reichstag Fire "Hitler forced President Hindenburg
>> to pass an 'emergency decree' suspending all articles that guaranteed
>> freedom and liberty. Hitler's police were then allowed to seize
>> property and take people without any sort of trial. The death penalty
>> was introduced again for many crimes and concentration camps were set
>> up. The Nazis' twelve year terror over their opponents had started."
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire
>>
>> Your comparison of Hitler's Reichstag Fire actions to Bush and 9-11 is
>> ill founded beyond the pale and one would think an inappropriate
>> vehicle to the threads discussion.
>
> The United States (by self proclamation) is supposed to set the moral
> standard for the rest of the world. Therefore, it is all the more
> egregious when the US violates moral norms on due process and torture.
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | |
Date: 17 Jun 2007 19:26:13
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:51:28 -0700, Johnny Sunset
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Jun 17, 9:33 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:42:14 -0700, Johnny Sunset
>>
>>
>>
>> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 17, 8:08 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>>
>> >> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> >> >> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >> >> >>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >> >> >>> >political power.
>>
>> >> >> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> >> >> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>> >> >> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>> >> >> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>> >> >> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> >> >> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>> >> >> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>> >> >> >truly delusional.
>>
>> >> >> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
>> >> >> comparison you are making.
>>
>> >> >Reading comprehension problem, eh?
>>
>> >> Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
>>
>> >> "Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
>> >> Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
>> >> meant to be sarcastic?
>>
>> >It is an action in common between Germany under Hitler (several
>> >Eurasian countries) and the US under Bush II (Iraq).
>>
>> The subject is the Reichstag Fire and actions by Hitler and 9-11 and
>> actions by Bush and wether the comparison is applicable.
>>
>> Rather than labor at putting this in my own words, haviong read the
>> excellent treatise on the subject in John Toland's Adolph Hitler, I'll
>> simply quote Wickipedia:
>>
>> The day after the Reichstag Fire "Hitler forced President Hindenburg
>> to pass an 'emergency decree' suspending all articles that guaranteed
>> freedom and liberty. Hitler's police were then allowed to seize
>> property and take people without any sort of trial. The death penalty
>> was introduced again for many crimes and concentration camps were set
>> up. The Nazis' twelve year terror over their opponents had started."
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire
>>
>> Your comparison of Hitler's Reichstag Fire actions to Bush and 9-11 is
>> ill founded beyond the pale and one would think an inappropriate
>> vehicle to the threads discussion.
>
>The United States (by self proclamation) is supposed to set the moral
>standard for the rest of the world. Therefore, it is all the more
>egregious when the US violates moral norms on due process and torture.
Whooosh.....!
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 12:48:06
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:02:08 -0700, Johnny Sunset
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Jun 15, 9:37 pm, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset wrote in message
>>
>> news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>>
>> >> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>> >> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>> >> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>>
>> > If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
>> > .....
>>
>> Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
>
>Yep, Reichstag Fire, and those little incidents that followed that
>killed 50+ million people?
>
>> http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
>>
>> Try to be a little more creative. 8)
>
>WTF does being creative have do to with anything, when there are
>plenty of historical precedents?
>
>Quotes by George W. Bush:
>
>"You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
>easier." (Governing Magazine 7/98)
>
>"I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
>agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
>would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the
>dictator." (CNN.com, December 18, 2000)
>
>"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
>about it" (Business Week, July 30, 2001)
I'm guessing that every one of these quotes does not convey the true
context. Convenient for the easily misguided, though.
|
| |
Date: 15 Jun 2007 16:42:16
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>
> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| | |
Date: 16 Jun 2007 02:37:46
From: Chuck Davis
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
|
"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1181950936.918313.50200@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>>
>> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
> If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
> .....
Sorry, but that scenario has already been used:
http://wired-vig.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/07/20751
Try to be a little more creative. 8)
ChuckD
|
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 06:42:14
From: Johnny Sunset
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On Jun 17, 8:08 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ > wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>
>
>
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
> >> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> >> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
> >> >>> >Nazis.
>
> >> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>
> >> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
> >> >>> >political power.
>
> >> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>
> >> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
> >> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
> >> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
> >> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>
> >> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
> >> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
> >> >truly delusional.
>
> >> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
> >> comparison you are making.
>
> >Reading comprehension problem, eh?
>
> Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
>
> "Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
> Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
> meant to be sarcastic?
It is an action in common between Germany under Hitler (several
Eurasian countries) and the US under Bush II (Iraq).
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 22:07:26
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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"Johnny Sunset" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1182087734.301243.35160@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 17, 8:08 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>>
>>
>>
>> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> >> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>> >> >wrote:
>>
>> >> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >> >>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political
>> >> >>> >power.
>>
>> >> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >> >>> >political power.
>>
>> >> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> >> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very
>> >> >>> night
>> >> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in
>> >> >>> someone's
>> >> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact,
>> >> >>> *any*
>> >> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> >> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>> >> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>> >> >truly delusional.
>>
>> >> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
>> >> comparison you are making.
>>
>> >Reading comprehension problem, eh?
>>
>> Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
>>
>> "Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
>> Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
>> meant to be sarcastic?
>
> It is an action in common between Germany under Hitler (several
> Eurasian countries) and the US under Bush II (Iraq).
Mr. Sherman is an idiot. What more needs to be said?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 17 Jun 2007 14:33:38
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:42:14 -0700, Johnny Sunset
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>On Jun 17, 8:08 am, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:51:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
>>
>>
>>
>> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jun 17, 6:54 am, R Brickston wrote:
>> >> >On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:45:07 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> >> >>> >Godwin's Law involves INAPPROPRIATE comparisons to Hitler and/or
>> >> >>> >Nazis.
>>
>> >> >>> >The Nazi's used the Reichstag Fire to increase their political power.
>>
>> >> >>> >The Cheney/Bush administration used 9/11/2001 to increase their
>> >> >>> >political power.
>>
>> >> >>> >How is the comparison inappropriate?
>>
>> >> >>> Totally inappropriate because the power Hitler seized that very night
>> >> >>> and in the successive days, could not be remotely, even in someone's
>> >> >>> wildest imagination, compared to any action Bush, or in fact, *any*
>> >> >>> President of the United States has ever taken.
>>
>> >> >Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action. If you
>> >> >believe Iraq was attacking or about to attack the US in 2003, you are
>> >> >truly delusional.
>>
>> >> Clarify you statement as to my rebuttal above, I have no idea what
>> >> comparison you are making.
>>
>> >Reading comprehension problem, eh?
>>
>> Bad writing always presents a comprehension problem. For example:
>>
>> "Aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation is a common action." Arfe
>> Do you mean generally or more specifically WWII? Or is the statement
>> meant to be sarcastic?
>
>It is an action in common between Germany under Hitler (several
>Eurasian countries) and the US under Bush II (Iraq).
The subject is the Reichstag Fire and actions by Hitler and 9-11 and
actions by Bush and wether the comparison is applicable.
Rather than labor at putting this in my own words, haviong read the
excellent treatise on the subject in John Toland's Adolph Hitler, I'll
simply quote Wickipedia:
The day after the Reichstag Fire "Hitler forced President Hindenburg
to pass an 'emergency decree' suspending all articles that guaranteed
freedom and liberty. Hitler's police were then allowed to seize
property and take people without any sort of trial. The death penalty
was introduced again for many crimes and concentration camps were set
up. The Nazis' twelve year terror over their opponents had started."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire
Your comparison of Hitler's Reichstag Fire actions to Bush and 9-11 is
ill founded beyond the pale and one would think an inappropriate
vehicle to the threads discussion.
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 00:14:52
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
> If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
Don't laugh. It could happen. I think somewhere in the Constitution
there is a war powers act that states the sitting president can cancel
elections during a 'war'. Bush might call this a war and do something
stupid like declare himself president until the "War on American
Liberties, (err, terror)" is won, which would be never.
That is one scary thought.
Bill Baka
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
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Date: 16 Jun 2007 11:51:19
From: R Brickston
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:14:52 GMT, Bill <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote:
>Johnny Sunset wrote:
>> On Jun 15, 5:32 pm, Donald Gillies wrote:
>>> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>>> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>>> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>>
>> If there is a national "emergency", will there be a 2008 election?
>
>Don't laugh. It could happen. I think somewhere in the Constitution
>there is a war powers act that states the sitting president can cancel
>elections during a 'war'. Bush might call this a war and do something
>stupid like declare himself president until the "War on American
>Liberties, (err, terror)" is won, which would be never.
>That is one scary thought.
>Bill Baka
The suspension of an election "somewhere in the Constitution?" Total
and absolute crap.
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 19:01:11
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On 15 Jun 2007 15:32:51 -0700, gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
wrote:
>Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>>This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>>away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>>radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>>Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>>
>>Bill Baka
>
>This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
I've read that it'll take almost a year to physically remove that many
troops and their stuff.
--
JT
****************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 23:31:26
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 15 Jun 2007 15:32:51 -0700, gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
> wrote:
>
>> Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>>> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>>> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>>> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>>>
>>> Bill Baka
>> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
Dissolve the Repuglican party forever? Great idea but hard to implement.
>>
>
> I've read that it'll take almost a year to physically remove that many
> troops and their stuff.
It didn't take that long to get them there. After the election we can
send Bush and Cheney and tell them that since they supported the war so
vigorously that they can now prove their manhood.
I wish.
Bush joined (did he really join?) the National Guard to get out of Viet
Nam, yet he sent the National Guard troops to Iraq, thus leaving us, in
a manner, unguarded.
What's pathetically funny to me is the new Army commercials.
You made them strong, we'll make them Army strong.
BTW, "We will send them home in a body bag, probably made in China."
Something is wrong here, but impeaching Bush would put OMG, Cheney in
command.
Bill (Political science in college did NOT prepare me for this) Baka
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 21:58:39
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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"Bill" <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:ijFci.13960$2v1.9723@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On 15 Jun 2007 15:32:51 -0700, gillies@cs.ubc.ca (Donald Gillies)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>>>> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>>>> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>>>> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Baka
>>> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>>> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>>> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
> Dissolve the Repuglican party forever? Great idea but hard to implement.
>>>
>>
>> I've read that it'll take almost a year to physically remove that many
>> troops and their stuff.
>
> It didn't take that long to get them there. After the election we can send
> Bush and Cheney and tell them that since they supported the war so
> vigorously that they can now prove their manhood.
> I wish.
> Bush joined (did he really join?) the National Guard to get out of Viet
> Nam, yet he sent the National Guard troops to Iraq, thus leaving us, in a
> manner, unguarded.
> What's pathetically funny to me is the new Army commercials.
> You made them strong, we'll make them Army strong.
> BTW, "We will send them home in a body bag, probably made in China."
> Something is wrong here, but impeaching Bush would put OMG, Cheney in
> command.
> Bill (Political science in college did NOT prepare me for this) Baka
This is the kind of post that proves all over again that Bill Baka is an
idiot of the first order. In fact, the above is so stupid that it is
impossible to respond to it. This makes me think that Bill Baka may be a
genius in disguise. His stupidly is beyond all reason. Is that not genius?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 15 Jun 2007 22:38:31
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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Donald Gillies wrote:
> Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>>
>> Bill Baka
>
> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA
Not only do I agree with you, I just hope it happens. Bush's war is even
getting bad vibes from the few Republicans I do admit to knowing. One
guy who served in Viet Nam and got sick of politics from that one says
we should either blow them to Hell or get out and let them kill each
other, and we know they will.
I'll even bet that oil prices would come down as soon as we got out of
there. I think the oil prices are the other countries way of saying we
are not wanted.
Bill Baka
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Date: 18 Jun 2007 21:52:08
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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"Bill" <bbaka@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:HxEci.13955$2v1.3710@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
> Donald Gillies wrote:
>> Bill <bill@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> This war is not going away unless we make all the Muslim/Islamics go
>>> away, and a few big booms from air burst H-bombs will make little
>>> radiation, but lots of glass we can make things from.
>>> Suicide that, fanatical Islamics.
>>>
>>> Bill Baka
>>
>> This war is going away exactly 1 year, 7 months, 5 days, and 12
>> minutes from now, roughly 10 seconds after we swear in a new president
>> and kick the current fascists from office, forever.
>>
>> - Don Gillies
>> San Diego, CA, USA
>
> Not only do I agree with you, I just hope it happens. Bush's war is even
> getting bad vibes from the few Republicans I do admit to knowing. One guy
> who served in Viet Nam and got sick of politics from that one says we
> should either blow them to Hell or get out and let them kill each other,
> and we know they will.
Yes, we should surge to several hundred thousand more troops to Iraq and
kill however many that need to be killed. I do not understand why we always
want to do things on the cheap. I am in favor of overwhelming force at all
times. It is the one and only thing that savages understand.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 03:58:39
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:52:08 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
>Yes, we should surge to several hundred thousand more troops to Iraq and
>kill however many that need to be killed.
When you turn 18 are you going to enlist?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Date: 19 Jun 2007 11:17:44
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Time to bomb Iran?
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <usenetremove@jt10000.com > wrote in message
news:d43f731eg7g7bk9aisr9a9r8riibh2ijgl@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:52:08 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Yes, we should surge to several hundred thousand more troops to Iraq and
>>kill however many that need to be killed.
>
> When you turn 18 are you going to enlist?
In a nation of 300 million, there is never going to be any shortage of
warriors who want to kill our enemies.
If and when the Muslim terrorists take you prisoner and want to lop off your
head, I will encourage them to do so. One less liberal to fuck-up this
nation is greatly to be desired. If your posterity will tell me where they
will put your body, I will be delighted to piss on your grave. I seem to
have devopled a bladder problem in my old age and I now have lots of piss
for the graves of liberals like you.
Why do I hate liberals so much? It is because they will not defend this
nation against its enemies.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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