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Date: 08 Sep 2005 14:43:16
From:
Subject: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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Hi all,
got a question here. I have a trice classic. I have noticed that when
I turn the front wheels make a pling pling sort of a sound.
The faster I go and the harder I turn the louder the plinging. I am
guessing it's something to do with loading and unloading the spokes.
Does this happen with anyone else? is it something I should be getting
worried about?
Everso
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Date: 09 Sep 2005 16:51:47
From: Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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reply@spam.co.uk wrote:
> >If your hub breaks, loose spokes could be the least of your problems.
>
> Been there done that - crashed the trike while still pretty new at the
> whole thing - both hubs bust the flanges while I was 20 miles from
> home ...
Are these Sturmey-Archer drum brake hubs? They have a reputation for
having rather fragile flanges.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
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Date: 10 Sep 2005 08:46:59
From:
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>reply@spam.co.uk wrote:
>> >If your hub breaks, loose spokes could be the least of your problems.
>>
>> Been there done that - crashed the trike while still pretty new at the
>> whole thing - both hubs bust the flanges while I was 20 miles from
>> home ...
>
>Are these Sturmey-Archer drum brake hubs? They have a reputation for
>having rather fragile flanges.
Yep - got new ones on there and things seem to be o.k. now. But you
can see why I am very cautious when it comes to the front wheels.
The whole thing is academic however - it's still raining here and has
been since yesterday. I can't see it being nice riding conditions
tomorrow so I think it's a TV day for me :(
Everso
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 17:25:18
From: Sunset Fanatic
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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Jeff Wills wrote:
> ...
> *Immediately* take your trike to a qualified mechanic and have the
> spokes tightened and the wheels trued. They may be salvagable yet.
> However, spoke breakage is caused by fatigue in the spokes- the looser
> the spokes, the more they move, and the quicker they'll break.
>
> After the wheels are trued and tensioned, you may break some spokes. If
> this starts happening, you'll need to have all the spokes replaced.
> There's no way to stop them from breaking once the fatigue process has
> started.
Jeff,
If I recall correctly, Jobst Brandt reported cases (in the 1960's, I
think) of his wheels breaking spokes. Said wheels had the broken spokes
replaced, were re-tensioned, trued and stress relieved. Mr. Brandt
reported that further spoke breakage did not occur on the subject
wheels.
As always, your kilometerage may vary,
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 17:16:57
From: Sunset Fanatic
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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Peter Clinch, Medical Physics IT Officer, wrote:
> reply@spam.co.uk wrote:
>
> > ...
> > Should I be telling him anything like "extra tight please"?
>
> No, there's a right tension and going beyond it doesn't help....
Herr Jobst Brandt claims that tension spoke wheels should have the
spokes tightened to the limit of the rim's ability to stay true [1]
while statically unloaded to maximize lateral strength of the wheel.
However, Herr Brandt's sock puppet detractor, "jim beam", insists this
will lead to premature fatigue cracking of the rim.
[1] Beyond which it elastically deforms into a "taco" or "potato [2]
chip" shape.
[2] "potatoe" for DePauw University political science majors, class of
1969.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 17:05:16
From: Sunset Fanatic
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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rBOB who? wrote:
> Are you sure it's coming from the spokes?...
There is enough deflection when corning in many trikes to make the
discs rub slightly (if said trike is disc brake equipped, of course).
This is more of a "ringing" sound [1] than a pinging sound, however.
[1] My Earth Cycles Dragonflyer [TM] trike exhibits this behavior.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
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Date: 09 Sep 2005 07:51:46
From:
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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"Sunset Fanatic" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>rBOB who? wrote:
>> Are you sure it's coming from the spokes?...
>
>There is enough deflection when corning in many trikes to make the
>discs rub slightly (if said trike is disc brake equipped, of course).
>This is more of a "ringing" sound [1] than a pinging sound, however.
Well it certainly a pling - the sort of noise you get when tapping a
spoke with a screw driver.
Also i have hub breaks so it's unlikely to be disk noise :)
As always - thanks to every one who took the time to read and reply.
I'll let you know how things go.
Everso
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Date: 09 Sep 2005 09:32:58
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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>
> Also i have hub breaks so it's unlikely to be disk noise :)
>
>
If your hub breaks, loose spokes could be the least of your problems. In
this trainof thought, though, can hub brakes make odd noises when subjected
to side loads?
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Date: 09 Sep 2005 21:18:36
From:
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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>If your hub breaks, loose spokes could be the least of your problems.
Been there done that - crashed the trike while still pretty new at the
whole thing - both hubs bust the flanges while I was 20 miles from
home ...
I have them back from the shop all nice and tight. I'll have a spin
round the area tomorrow and see if anything drops off. Though if the
rain keeps up like this (North east U.K.) it will be a quiet day in
front of the TV instead of a ride come Sunday.
Everso.
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Date: 09 Sep 2005 17:40:51
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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<reply@spam.co.uk > wrote in message
news:obr3i1lpe26pcu97nagvalmck7b88ra2i5@4ax.com...
> >If your hub breaks, loose spokes could be the least of your problems.
>
> Been there done that - crashed the trike while still pretty new at the
> whole thing - both hubs bust the flanges while I was 20 miles from
> home ...
>
>
> I have them back from the shop all nice and tight. I'll have a spin
> round the area tomorrow and see if anything drops off. Though if the
> rain keeps up like this (North east U.K.) it will be a quiet day in
> front of the TV instead of a ride come Sunday.
>
> Everso.
<Also i have hub breaks so it's unlikely to be disk noise :) >
I seem to remember about your early adventures with cracked hub flanges, and
I thought the "breaks" was a double entendre.
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 14:18:17
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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rBOB wrote:
> Are you sure it's coming from the spokes? If it is the spokes, maybe
> the wheels were not stress relieved. This should be done as the last
> step of wheel building and then the wheel must be touched up (trued)
> again. Anyone who has ever built more than a few wheels should know
> this. If the builder did not do this, it's a k against him.
If the wheels weren't stress-relieved, they'll usually go through one
round of "pling pling pling" before settling in- after which they're
quiet. On a trike, pling pling pling in corners indicates the spokes
are moving against one another, which is usually caused by insufficient
tension.
You can
> read more here:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
>
An excellent reference.
> >>>Before a wheel is ready for the road it must be stress relieved, because the bend in the spoke has to accommodate itself to the shape of the hub flange and vice versa, and a similar process may go on where the nipple sits in the rim.
>
> >>>After you do this, you will probably have to do some touch-up truing, then repeat the stressing process until it stops making noise and the wheel stops going out of true.
>
> If the wheels get trued properly, there no reason not to go on your
> ride.
Yes and no. The wheel may true up properly, but sthe spokes may still
be fatigued to the point where they will fail early. There's no reason
why a set of spokes can't last 10's of thousands of miles if properly
tensioned. On the other hand, they may start to fail in less than 500
(I've experienced both ends of the spectrum).
It's tough to tell from the other side of the planet. I'd say that if
the original builder is willing to tension and true the wheels then you
should take advantage of the service. They won't all fail at once- but
once two or three go, it would be time to consider replacing all of the
spokes.
Jeff
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 12:38:43
From: rBOB
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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Are you sure it's coming from the spokes? If it is the spokes, maybe
the wheels were not stress relieved. This should be done as the last
step of wheel building and then the wheel must be touched up (trued)
again. Anyone who has ever built more than a few wheels should know
this. If the builder did not do this, it's a k against him. You can
read more here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
>>>Before a wheel is ready for the road it must be stress relieved, because the bend in the spoke has to accommodate itself to the shape of the hub flange and vice versa, and a similar process may go on where the nipple sits in the rim.
>>>After you do this, you will probably have to do some touch-up truing, then repeat the stressing process until it stops making noise and the wheel stops going out of true.
If the wheels get trued properly, there no reason not to go on your
ride.
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 07:24:41
From: Jeff Wills
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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reply@spam.co.uk wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> got a question here. I have a trice classic. I have noticed that when
> I turn the front wheels make a pling pling sort of a sound.
>
> The faster I go and the harder I turn the louder the plinging. I am
> guessing it's something to do with loading and unloading the spokes.
>
> Does this happen with anyone else? is it something I should be getting
> worried about?
>
> Everso
This happens when there is insufficient tension on the spokes- as you
surmised, it's the sound of the spokes moving as they are loaded &
unloaded.
*Immediately* take your trike to a qualified mechanic and have the
spokes tightened and the wheels trued. They may be salvagable yet.
However, spoke breakage is caused by fatigue in the spokes- the looser
the spokes, the more they move, and the quicker they'll break.
After the wheels are trued and tensioned, you may break some spokes. If
this starts happening, you'll need to have all the spokes replaced.
There's no way to stop them from breaking once the fatigue process has
started.
Jeff
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 15:52:50
From:
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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"Jeff Wills" <jwills@pacifier.com > wrote:
>
>*Immediately* take your trike to a qualified mechanic and have the
>spokes tightened and the wheels trued. They may be salvagable yet.
>However, spoke breakage is caused by fatigue in the spokes- the looser
>the spokes, the more they move, and the quicker they'll break.
>
>After the wheels are trued and tensioned, you may break some spokes. If
>this starts happening, you'll need to have all the spokes replaced.
>There's no way to stop them from breaking once the fatigue process has
>started.
>
>Jeff
Thanks - I'll do this tomorrow (got a few days off). The guy I'll be
taking it to is the one who built these wheels - am I making the right
choice here?
He has been running a bike shop for 20ish years and has a very high
reputation in the area so I have to admit I am surprised there is an
issue.
Should I be telling him anything like "extra tight please"? I am also
planning a century on Sunday - wonder if I should be putting this off
for a while. Maybe if he does them up and on Saturday I go for a 10
mile or so ride - see if anything snaps. If not go out on Sunday, if
it does delay the ride till fixed. Does this sound like a good plan?
Everso
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 16:00:32
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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reply@spam.co.uk wrote:
> Thanks - I'll do this tomorrow (got a few days off). The guy I'll be
> taking it to is the one who built these wheels - am I making the right
> choice here?
It's only a spot of basic tensioning and though I don't trust myself to
build or true wheels it's easy enough to tension to stop a "pling".
pluck the spokes and any that are clearly loose and give a dull thud
rather than a ping need a quick turn with a spoke wrench (if you've a
multitool there should be a couple on that).
Having said that, if this guy is local and built the wheels you might as
well get him to tension them up properly!
> Should I be telling him anything like "extra tight please"?
No, there's a right tension and going beyond it doesn't help.
> I am also
> planning a century on Sunday - wonder if I should be putting this off
> for a while. Maybe if he does them up and on Saturday I go for a 10
> mile or so ride - see if anything snaps. If not go out on Sunday, if
> it does delay the ride till fixed. Does this sound like a good plan?
Sounds a bit paranoid. Should be fine as soon they're tensioned up.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 08 Sep 2005 20:38:29
From:
Subject: Re: The wheels on the trike go pling pling pling.
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Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote:
>Sounds a bit paranoid. Should be fine as soon they're tensioned up.
>
I think it was the previous comment about fatigue that has me worried.
I will but on a 100 mile unsupported ride. Now the route means I will
never be more than 20 miles from home, that is still a long way from
home - unsupported, ringing round mates asking if they can come pick
you up.
I think I'll take a little ride on Saturday just for fun any way.
Thank you both for the advice.
Everso.
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