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Main
Date: 14 Aug 2007 06:42:30
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
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Anyone but me ever struck by that extreme leftist of ARBR, Tom Sherman? How
do you get to be so fuckiing unreconstructed?
I charge Tom Sherman with being a royal pain in the ass to all these
honorable cycling newsgroups. The poor and downtrodden of this earth would
be exterminated if there were any natural forces still in play. But
liberal-socialist-communists like Tom Sherman have seen to it that we shall
always have the poor with us. He never tires of defending them.
Mr. Sherman is one of the wonders of Western Civilization. He is a civil
engineer with a very good job and yet he identifies with poor White trash,
Negro scum and other assorted ethnic trash. How to explain this?
He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has not
a liberal arts education at all. If he had he would know that trash people
we shall have always with us. Very many of them are criminals besides. But
Tom Sherman is a bleeding heart. If only one of those he bleeds for would
give him a good sound drubbing, it would cure him pronto of all his
illusions.
Mr. Sherman read some doggerel about socialism while he was in college and
never recovered from it. Too bad for him. Most Americans simply hate
liberals, socialists and communists like him. One of these days we will have
to exterminate all of them like the treasonous and cowardly rats that they
are.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:08:10
From: Chris
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
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"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in
news:eqydnV037YXNCFzbnZ2dnUVZ_vyinZ2d@prairiewave.com:
> Anyone but me ever struck by that extreme leftist of ARBR, Tom
> Sherman? How do you get to be so fuckiing unreconstructed?
>
> I charge Tom Sherman with being a royal pain in the ass to all these
> honorable cycling newsgroups. The poor and downtrodden of this earth
> would be exterminated if there were any natural forces still in play.
> But liberal-socialist-communists like Tom Sherman have seen to it that
> we shall always have the poor with us. He never tires of defending
> them.
>
> Mr. Sherman is one of the wonders of Western Civilization. He is a
> civil engineer with a very good job and yet he identifies with poor
> White trash, Negro scum and other assorted ethnic trash. How to
> explain this?
Because he is not a bigot like you ED (Erectile Dysfunction)
>
> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and
> has not a liberal arts education at all. If he had he would know that
> trash people we shall have always with us. Very many of them are
> criminals besides. But Tom Sherman is a bleeding heart. If only one of
> those he bleeds for would give him a good sound drubbing, it would
> cure him pronto of all his illusions.
>
> Mr. Sherman read some doggerel about socialism while he was in college
> and never recovered from it. Too bad for him. Most Americans simply
> hate liberals, socialists and communists like him. One of these days
> we will have to exterminate all of them like the treasonous and
> cowardly rats that they are.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 18:46:54
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
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Edward Dolan wrote:
> Anyone but me ever struck by that extreme leftist of ARBR, Tom Sherman? How
> do you get to be so fuckiing unreconstructed?
>
> I charge Tom Sherman with being a royal pain in the ass to all these
> honorable cycling newsgroups. The poor and downtrodden of this earth would
> be exterminated if there were any natural forces still in play. But
> liberal-socialist-communists like Tom Sherman have seen to it that we shall
> always have the poor with us. He never tires of defending them.
>
> Mr. Sherman is one of the wonders of Western Civilization. He is a civil
> engineer with a very good job and yet he identifies with poor White trash,
> Negro scum and other assorted ethnic trash. How to explain this?
If I didn't defend "poor White trash", I would be a traitor to my class.
I have known both blue collar tradesmen and rich white businessmen, and
I have a lot more in common with the former.
> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has not
> a liberal arts education at all. If he had he would know that trash people
> we shall have always with us. Very many of them are criminals besides. But
> Tom Sherman is a bleeding heart. If only one of those he bleeds for would
> give him a good sound drubbing, it would cure him pronto of all his
> illusions.
>
> Mr. Sherman read some doggerel about socialism while he was in college and
> never recovered from it. Too bad for him. Most Americans simply hate
> liberals, socialists and communists like him. One of these days we will have
> to exterminate all of them like the treasonous and cowardly rats that they
> are.
Actually, it was having to drop out of college (for medical reasons) and
then having to work crap jobs just to survive (not having the backup of
a family that could take me in) that turned me against the system.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 04:04:21
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@invailid.com > wrote in message
news:46c232da$0$16345$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> Anyone but me ever struck by that extreme leftist of ARBR, Tom Sherman?
>> How do you get to be so fuckiing unreconstructed?
>>
>> I charge Tom Sherman with being a royal pain in the ass to all these
>> honorable cycling newsgroups. The poor and downtrodden of this earth
>> would be exterminated if there were any natural forces still in play. But
>> liberal-socialist-communists like Tom Sherman have seen to it that we
>> shall always have the poor with us. He never tires of defending them.
>>
>> Mr. Sherman is one of the wonders of Western Civilization. He is a civil
>> engineer with a very good job and yet he identifies with poor White
>> trash, Negro scum and other assorted ethnic trash. How to explain this?
>
> If I didn't defend "poor White trash", I would be a traitor to my class.
Try to overcome your lowly class origins.
> I have known both blue collar tradesmen and rich white businessmen, and I
> have a lot more in common with the former.
Then education has been wasted on you. I know the blue collar types well
from my 4 years that I spent in the Navy as an enlisted man. They are
something to escape from, not to embrace. Try to become more bourgeois why
don't you - if you are capable of it?
>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has
>> not a liberal arts education at all. If he had he would know that trash
>> people we shall have always with us. Very many of them are criminals
>> besides. But Tom Sherman is a bleeding heart. If only one of those he
>> bleeds for would give him a good sound drubbing, it would cure him pronto
>> of all his illusions.
>>
>> Mr. Sherman read some doggerel about socialism while he was in college
>> and never recovered from it. Too bad for him. Most Americans simply hate
>> liberals, socialists and communists like him. One of these days we will
>> have to exterminate all of them like the treasonous and cowardly rats
>> that they are.
>
> Actually, it was having to drop out of college (for medical reasons) and
> then having to work crap jobs just to survive (not having the backup of a
> family that could take me in) that turned me against the system.
That is no excuse for your working class mentality. The Soviets glorified
work and the working man and where did that get them? Try to become an
American - again, if you are capable of it!
By the way, do you think the 4 years I spent in the Navy as an enlisted man
was some kind of joy ride. I hated every moment of it, but that did not turn
me off on America. I think the problem is that you want too much out of
life. Hells Bells, if you are not starving in the street, you are way ahead
of most of the rest of the world.
Worthington, Minnesota, where I have lived for most of my life, is now being
flooded with Hispanics. They work damn hard for not much, but still they are
a hundred times better off here than they were in Hispanic America. That is
because hard work is rewarded in this country and because it is possible to
get ahead. I was way too lazy to ever bother with any of this hard work and
getting ahead shit myself, but I cannot be resentful of others who want the
good life and are willing to work for it.
I have always been as poor as a church mouse (my own choice), but I
appreciate the fact that I have not been bothered by tyrants who would like
to rule over me. The kind of freedom we have here in America is priceless. I
KNOW this because the kind of freedom you have while serving in the military
forces of this country is practically nil.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 13:15:30
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has
> not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more liberal
than Mr. Sherman
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 02:34:56
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c3om5du5k186a@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>
>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has
>> not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
>
> Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more liberal
> than Mr. Sherman
Nope, you are a humanist and Mr. Sherman is not. He is a liberal ideologue
of the worst sort. I knew his type all through my academic career, brief
though it was. It is your Jewish cultural tradition which saves you from
being a rigid type like Mr. Sherman. God help us if he and his ilk were ever
to gain control of anything.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 13:07:46
From: Keats
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c3om5du5k186a@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>
>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has
>> not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
>
> Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more liberal
> than Mr. Sherman
>
If that's the case then you must be some kind leftist secular progressive
like Mr. Sherman and not a Jew. What was it, I wonder, that made you change
from being a Jew to being something like what Sherman turned out to be?
Disturbing.
Keats
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 21:16:51
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
Well for one, I don't believe in God. I accept my cultural heritage as a Jew
but basically I consider Judiasm a monotheistic religion and I don't go in
for monothesim.
For two, I acknowledge that the human species is tribal and territorial but
I don't accept it as an endpoint. I am human and as a human, I am not
different from other humans. Infact I am closely related to them. In my
opinion, they are all my brothers and sisters. Even those that would not
acknowledge me as a brother are still my family.
I don't confine myself to the limitations of what I was born into. I am a
nut. I am hardly a realist for if I were I should surely know better and the
truth is I don't.
Sooner or later, my life will come to an end but if my vision only reaches
as few a two other people then I have done my job. If there is a
monotheistic god then he/she/it will be thrilled with what I have done. If
he/she/it isn't, then it isn't a god I want anything to do with anyway.
Clear enough?
Jeff
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:o6adnQJqmJrYclzbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13c3om5du5k186a@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>
>>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and has
>>> not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
>>
>> Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more
>> liberal than Mr. Sherman
>>
>
> If that's the case then you must be some kind leftist secular progressive
> like Mr. Sherman and not a Jew. What was it, I wonder, that made you
> change from being a Jew to being something like what Sherman turned out to
> be?
>
> Disturbing.
>
> Keats
>
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 03:07:40
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c4l09j8bjpa9@news.supernews.com...
ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
> Well for one, I don't believe in God. I accept my cultural heritage as a
> Jew but basically I consider Judiasm a monotheistic religion and I don't
> go in for monotheism.
Hey Jeff, get real! No one in this world gives a damn whether a Jew is
really an atheist or not. What we do care about is that you remain true to
your Jewish traditions - and that includes the Jewish faith above all else.
Only we fallen away Roman Catholics are allowed to become atheists.
> For two, I acknowledge that the human species is tribal and territorial
> but I don't accept it as an endpoint. I am human and as a human, I am not
> different from other humans. Infact I am closely related to them. In my
> opinion, they are all my brothers and sisters. Even those that would not
> acknowledge me as a brother are still my family.
Here is Jeff Grippe the Secular Humanist in all his glory. But it is not
enough. It never has been and it never will be. Why? Because individuals do
not count. Only the group counts. Jeff Grippe had better find his group soon
or he will be lost forever! Soc 101.
> I don't confine myself to the limitations of what I was born into. I am a
> nut. I am hardly a realist for if I were I should surely know better and
> the truth is I don't.
>
> Sooner or later, my life will come to an end but if my vision only reaches
> as few a two other people then I have done my job. If there is a
> monotheistic god then he/she/it will be thrilled with what I have done. If
> he/she/it isn't, then it isn't a god I want anything to do with anyway.
Well Jeff, there is no God and you and I both KNOW that. But it is nice that
we continue to be haunted by the question. It is measure of our humanity
that we are. It is why I respect all Jews, a most singular people who have
seemingly been forever obsessed by the question of God. Hey, there are worse
things for folks to be obsessed with than God!
Ah, the Eternal Jew, the People of the Book!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:o6adnQJqmJrYclzbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
>> news:13c3om5du5k186a@news.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and
>>>> has not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
>>>
>>> Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more
>>> liberal than Mr. Sherman
>>>
>>
>> If that's the case then you must be some kind leftist secular progressive
>> like Mr. Sherman and not a Jew. What was it, I wonder, that made you
>> change from being a Jew to being something like what Sherman turned out
>> to be?
>>
>> Disturbing.
>>
>> Keats
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Date: 14 Aug 2007 21:48:52
From: Keats
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c4l09j8bjpa9@news.supernews.com...
> Well for one, I don't believe in God. I accept my cultural heritage as a
> Jew but basically I consider Judiasm a monotheistic religion and I don't
> go in for monothesim.
>
> For two, I acknowledge that the human species is tribal and territorial
> but I don't accept it as an endpoint. I am human and as a human, I am not
> different from other humans. Infact I am closely related to them. In my
> opinion, they are all my brothers and sisters. Even those that would not
> acknowledge me as a brother are still my family.
>
> I don't confine myself to the limitations of what I was born into. I am a
> nut. I am hardly a realist for if I were I should surely know better and
> the truth is I don't.
>
> Sooner or later, my life will come to an end but if my vision only reaches
> as few a two other people then I have done my job. If there is a
> monotheistic god then he/she/it will be thrilled with what I have done. If
> he/she/it isn't, then it isn't a god I want anything to do with anyway.
>
> Clear enough?
>
> Jeff
>
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:o6adnQJqmJrYclzbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
>> news:13c3om5du5k186a@news.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and
>>>> has not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
>>>
>>> Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more
>>> liberal than Mr. Sherman
>>>
>>
>> If that's the case then you must be some kind leftist secular progressive
>> like Mr. Sherman and not a Jew. What was it, I wonder, that made you
>> change from being a Jew to being something like what Sherman turned out
>> to be?
>>
>> Disturbing.
>>
>> Keats
>>
>
>
You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for" monotheism,
but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information. If you don't
believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do you go in for
polytheism?
It seems your "vision" is everyone is your brother and sister. How does
that change anything? If one of these brothers is killing your family what
do you do? Nothing? If you had to go into armed combat to stop a a
thousand brothers from killing a million other brothers would you do it?
Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house containing
enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in time of war and
a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on the way to school.
I would certainly hope you would be able to make a moral distinction here.
If you can't then I doubt you are capable of making any moral distinctions.
Keats
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 07:38:27
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:7qudnZHtrc_49F_bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for"
> monotheism, but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information.
> If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do you
> go in for polytheism?
>
I consider polytheism more likely. I believe that there may or may not exist
creatures that have all of the attributes that we would say add up to "god".
They can create what we call life (it may only be elementary chemestry to
them). Even we can destroy it. If such a thing existed, why would there be
only one? They probably have no interest in us, however, unless we are
somebody's experiment. But I'm using human terms and concepts and they
probably don't if they exsit at all. I don't consider this to be certain. I
actually consider it to be unlikely. I do consider it to be more likely than
the monotheistic god, however.
> It seems your "vision" is everyone is your brother and sister. How does
> that change anything? If one of these brothers is killing your family
> what do you do? Nothing? If you had to go into armed combat to stop a a
> thousand brothers from killing a million other brothers would you do it?
>
No! You can not stop violence with violence. If you do, it is a temporary
victory at best. It is only when the brothers themselves decide to stop
fighting that lasting peace can be achieved.
Did you miss the part of my reply where I said I am a nut and hardly a
realist? I'm putting in a separate paragraph so that you see it.
> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house
> containing enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in
> time of war and a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on
> the way to school. I would certainly hope you would be able to make a
> moral distinction here. If you can't then I doubt you are capable of
> making any moral distinctions.
I never compared myself to Sherman at the level of details. I see and
understand his point but I find anybody blowing up anyone for any reason to
be morally reprehensible. You are asking me which is worse? I refuse to
acknowledge that the question even has a basis in real ethical values.
The level at which Sherman's statement applies is that both groups are
blowing up people because of an idea that they believe in. You say one is
better than the other. I'm sure you can twist it to a point where I will
agree with you. That doesn't make either act a moral one. The commandment
(if you believe in them) doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill unless it is
necessary to prevent some other tragedy" But we pretend that some killing is
moral and some killing isn't. I'll grant you that some people believe that
some killing is necessary but you will never get me to say that any killing
is moral. It isn't.
You, my friend, need to study your morals a bit more. The Sunday School
class that I is from 10:30 AM to 11:30 AM on Sundays. My students are 3rd,
4th, and 5th graders and most of them have been in my class for at least one
year. I don't think you'd have any trouble catching up, however.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 12:27:14
From: Keats
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c5pdssiovat44@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:7qudnZHtrc_49F_bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for"
>> monotheism, but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information. If
>> you don't believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do you go
>> in for polytheism?
>>
>
> I consider polytheism more likely. I believe that there may or may not
> exist creatures that have all of the attributes that we would say add up
> to "god". They can create what we call life (it may only be elementary
> chemestry to them). Even we can destroy it. If such a thing existed, why
> would there be only one? They probably have no interest in us, however,
> unless we are somebody's experiment. But I'm using human terms and
> concepts and they probably don't if they exsit at all. I don't consider
> this to be certain. I actually consider it to be unlikely. I do consider
> it to be more likely than the monotheistic god, however.
>
>> It seems your "vision" is everyone is your brother and sister. How does
>> that change anything? If one of these brothers is killing your family
>> what do you do? Nothing? If you had to go into armed combat to stop a a
>> thousand brothers from killing a million other brothers would you do it?
>>
>
> No! You can not stop violence with violence. If you do, it is a temporary
> victory at best. It is only when the brothers themselves decide to stop
> fighting that lasting peace can be achieved.
>
> Did you miss the part of my reply where I said I am a nut and hardly a
> realist? I'm putting in a separate paragraph so that you see it.
>
No I did see that, but I didn't take it in the literal sense that you really
are a nut. But now I understand.
>> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house
>> containing enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in
>> time of war and a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on
>> the way to school. I would certainly hope you would be able to make a
>> moral distinction here. If you can't then I doubt you are capable of
>> making any moral distinctions.
>
> I never compared myself to Sherman at the level of details. I see and
> understand his point but I find anybody blowing up anyone for any reason
> to be morally reprehensible. You are asking me which is worse? I refuse to
> acknowledge that the question even has a basis in real ethical values.
>
OK. But now even our friend Tom Johnny is weasling out on that one. He's
leaving a really special catagory open for you.
> The level at which Sherman's statement applies is that both groups are
> blowing up people because of an idea that they believe in. You say one is
> better than the other. I'm sure you can twist it to a point where I will
> agree with you. That doesn't make either act a moral one. The commandment
> (if you believe in them) doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill unless it is
> necessary to prevent some other tragedy" But we pretend that some killing
> is moral and some killing isn't. I'll grant you that some people believe
> that some killing is necessary but you will never get me to say that any
> killing is moral. It isn't.
>
Lemme get this straight. Some predator like
so-called-brother is murdering your family and you are standing there with a
gun in your hand, but you refuse to blow his sorry ass away. Why? Because
a Commandment, from a God you don't believe in, doesn't have a proviso
saying you can kill to prevent some other tragedy? Or that killing this
murdering son of a bitch won't end all the violence on earth? Or that
killing the bastard violates some other sort of cockamamie
ethical belief you have concocted out of nothingness?
How do you tell children that Daddy won't protect them from monsters?
> You, my friend, need to study your morals a bit more. The Sunday School
> class that I is from 10:30 AM to 11:30 AM on Sundays. My students are 3rd,
> 4th, and 5th graders and most of them have been in my class for at least
> one year. I don't think you'd have any trouble catching up, however.
>
I'm wondering what parents in their right mind would turn over their 4th and
5th grade children for this kind of thought indoctrination? The only thing
I can conclude is that they must be nuts too.
Sundy School implies some sort of church affilation. If that's true then
I'd take a wild ass guess at Uniterian. But no wait, that implies a
cornerstone of monotheism which you "don't go in for".
Let's just say I don't understand. And I guarantee I'd have a hell of a
time catching up with those 5th graders who have been under your influence
for a year.
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 13:54:41
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:8L2dnaB1B-9dFVnbnZ2dnUVZ_tmhnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> Lemme get this straight. Some predator like
> so-called-brother is murdering your family and you are standing there with
> a gun in your hand, but you refuse to blow his sorry ass away. Why?
> Because a Commandment, from a God you don't believe in, doesn't have a
> proviso saying you can kill to prevent some other tragedy? Or that
> killing this murdering son of a bitch won't end all the violence on earth?
> Or that killing the bastard violates some other sort of cockamamie
> ethical belief you have concocted out of nothingness?
>
> How do you tell children that Daddy won't protect them from monsters?
>
Didn't I tell you that you could twist the example to the point where I
would agree with you?
When I protect my friends and family from harm, which I would do by any
means necessary, I am not acting on behalf of some ideology but rather I am
responding to a real and present threat.
I've been studying martial arts for many years. I have no problem with
protecting my family but there is a difference between an immediate threat
and a war.
In a conflict such as the one in the middle east, each side is playing the
children's game of "I got you last". Do you remember how the game ends? It
doesn't end until one or both sides decides to quit playing.
Don't go mixing apples and oranges when you are talking about issues of
ethics and morals.
Even in the case of killing to respond to an immediate threat, I still
consider killing to be wrong. Necessary, but wrong. We should not make it
right but rather we should strive to make it unnecessary.
The type of word game that you are playing is great if you want to win an
arguement. I can not deny that protection is necessary and is everyone's
right. So you win that one. If you want to talk about ethics and morals,
however, then going to the extreme doesn't help.
> I'm wondering what parents in their right mind would turn over their 4th
> and 5th grade children for this kind of thought indoctrination? The only
> thing I can conclude is that they must be nuts too.
>
> Sundy School implies some sort of church affilation. If that's true then
> I'd take a wild ass guess at Uniterian. But no wait, that implies a
> cornerstone of monotheism which you "don't go in for".
>
> Let's just say I don't understand. And I guarantee I'd have a hell of a
> time catching up with those 5th graders who have been under your influence
> for a year.
>
I teach Sunday School at the Ethical Culture Society. No god. No monthesim.
I don't teach my kids to lie down in front of trucks if that's what you are
worried about. I teach them respect for all cultures and beliefs. I teach
the same ideas of human family that you've seen me express in other posts.
I do not teach them that it is wrong to defend themselves or their loved
ones.
Personally I am very interested in peace. I want to find a way to end
conflicts. As I said before, each side will continue to play "got you last"
or the more rightous version which is something like "you got me last so I
am entitled to get you". This game will continue forever unless it is
stopped. How many generations does a conflict need to continue? Don't you
know that in any conflict, each side can give you reasons why they are right
and the other side is wrong?
Large scale conflicts don't stop unless all sides agree to stop. That is
very different than defending myself or my family and friends.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 06:07:09
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c93mveeijiv05@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:8L2dnaB1B-9dFVnbnZ2dnUVZ_tmhnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> Lemme get this straight. Some predator like
>> so-called-brother is murdering your family and you are standing there
>> with a gun in your hand, but you refuse to blow his sorry ass away. Why?
>> Because a Commandment, from a God you don't believe in, doesn't have a
>> proviso saying you can kill to prevent some other tragedy? Or that
>> killing this murdering son of a bitch won't end all the violence on
>> earth? Or that killing the bastard violates some other sort of cockamamie
>> ethical belief you have concocted out of nothingness?
>>
>> How do you tell children that Daddy won't protect them from monsters?
>>
>
> Didn't I tell you that you could twist the example to the point where I
> would agree with you?
>
> When I protect my friends and family from harm, which I would do by any
> means necessary, I am not acting on behalf of some ideology but rather I
> am responding to a real and present threat.
>
> I've been studying martial arts for many years. I have no problem with
> protecting my family but there is a difference between an immediate threat
> and a war.
There is no difference at all. They are one and the same thing.
> In a conflict such as the one in the middle east, each side is playing the
> children's game of "I got you last". Do you remember how the game ends? It
> doesn't end until one or both sides decides to quit playing.
>
> Don't go mixing apples and oranges when you are talking about issues of
> ethics and morals.
Jeff Grippe is equating one thing with another. The Palestinian terrorists
are not the moral equivalent of the Israeli Defense Force. One is evil, the
other is good. This is invariably where you end up when you are not anchored
by some kind of religious belief.
[...]
> I do not teach them that it is wrong to defend themselves or their loved
> ones.
The very best defense in the kind of world we are living in is a good
offense. In fact, you want to engage in preemptive war in order to forestall
an even greater war. We may have to bomb Iran eventually if they do not give
up their attempt to gain nuclear weapons. The days of sitting around and
waiting for a Pearl Harbor are long gone.
> Personally I am very interested in peace. I want to find a way to end
> conflicts. As I said before, each side will continue to play "got you
> last" or the more rightous version which is something like "you got me
> last so I am entitled to get you". This game will continue forever unless
> it is stopped. How many generations does a conflict need to continue?
> Don't you know that in any conflict, each side can give you reasons why
> they are right and the other side is wrong?
Everyone tried to appease Hitler in the 30's until it was too late and we
had a great war instead.
[...]
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 19 Aug 2007 09:48:05
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:he-dnUI0Bf8SuVXbnZ2dnUVZ_remnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
>> I've been studying martial arts for many years. I have no problem with
>> protecting my family but there is a difference between an immediate
>> threat and a war.
>
> There is no difference at all. They are one and the same thing.
>
No Ed, they are different. The ability to make distinctions is one of the
things that we have which sets people apart from other animals.
Many animals have a fight or flight response based on stimuli which may or
may not be real danger. Humans have the ability to distinguish and judge. To
say that they are the same is to revert to animal like decision making. We
can do better.
But why am I telling you this? You aren't interested in real dialog.
>> Don't go mixing apples and oranges when you are talking about issues of
>> ethics and morals.
>
> Jeff Grippe is equating one thing with another. The Palestinian terrorists
> are not the moral equivalent of the Israeli Defense Force. One is evil,
> the other is good. This is invariably where you end up when you are not
> anchored by some kind of religious belief.
Boy talk about pots and kettles. First you equate things and then you accuse
me of doing it. Nice work Ed.
> Everyone tried to appease Hitler in the 30's until it was too late and we
> had a great war instead.
Yup. That is true. Sometimes that will be the result. Not every situation is
the same as every other one, however. Hitler was not acting out a centuries
old conflict (although there's room to argue that one). Even if he was, it
is still so that each situation must be taken on its own merits. War is
never the best answer although it is sometimes the only answer. It should,
however, always be the last answer.
Stop pretending to be stupid, Ed. It doesn't suit you well.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 19:59:35
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
Jeff Grippe wrote:
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:7qudnZHtrc_49F_bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for"
>> monotheism, but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information.
>> If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do you
>> go in for polytheism?
>>
>
> I consider polytheism more likely. I believe that there may or may not exist
> creatures that have all of the attributes that we would say add up to "god".
> They can create what we call life (it may only be elementary chemestry to
> them). Even we can destroy it. If such a thing existed, why would there be
> only one? They probably have no interest in us, however, unless we are
> somebody's experiment. But I'm using human terms and concepts and they
> probably don't if they exsit at all. I don't consider this to be certain. I
> actually consider it to be unlikely. I do consider it to be more likely than
> the monotheistic god, however....
Bah! The Universe was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster with His
Noodly Appendage!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 05:29:53
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@invailid.com > wrote in message
news:46c39561$0$22028$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>
> Bah! The Universe was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster with His
> Noodly Appendage!
>
Everyone knows that but do you think that there is only one FSM? And who
created the FSM's? My guess would be the holy pasta maker. And who created
the holy pasta maker. My guess would be Ronco.
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 09:16:56
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c5pdssiovat44@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:7qudnZHtrc_49F_bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for"
>> monotheism, but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information. If
>> you don't believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do you go
>> in for polytheism?
>>
>
> I consider polytheism more likely. I believe that there may or may not
> exist creatures that have all of the attributes that we would say add up
> to "god". They can create what we call life (it may only be elementary
> chemestry to them). Even we can destroy it. If such a thing existed, why
> would there be only one? They probably have no interest in us, however,
> unless we are somebody's experiment. But I'm using human terms and
> concepts and they probably don't if they exsit at all. I don't consider
> this to be certain. I actually consider it to be unlikely. I do consider
> it to be more likely than the monotheistic god, however.
Stop reading all that ridiculous shit you are reading. It is leading you
astray. Who ever heard of a Jew who believed in multiple Gods. Even
Christians and Muslims are not that stupid!
>> It seems your "vision" is everyone is your brother and sister. How does
>> that change anything? If one of these brothers is killing your family
>> what do you do? Nothing? If you had to go into armed combat to stop a a
>> thousand brothers from killing a million other brothers would you do it?
>>
>
> No! You can not stop violence with violence. If you do, it is a temporary
> victory at best. It is only when the brothers themselves decide to stop
> fighting that lasting peace can be achieved.
Nonsense. When you kill an enemy, he is quite dead. That is all that
matters.
> Did you miss the part of my reply where I said I am a nut and hardly a
> realist? I'm putting in a separate paragraph so that you see it.
>
>> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house
>> containing enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in
>> time of war and a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on
>> the way to school. I would certainly hope you would be able to make a
>> moral distinction here. If you can't then I doubt you are capable of
>> making any moral distinctions.
>
> I never compared myself to Sherman at the level of details. I see and
> understand his point but I find anybody blowing up anyone for any reason
> to be morally reprehensible. You are asking me which is worse? I refuse to
> acknowledge that the question even has a basis in real ethical values.
Everything under the sun can be calculated better or worse. Hells Bells, I
do it all the time!
> The level at which Sherman's statement applies is that both groups are
> blowing up people because of an idea that they believe in. You say one is
> better than the other. I'm sure you can twist it to a point where I will
> agree with you. That doesn't make either act a moral one. The commandment
> (if you believe in them) doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill unless it is
> necessary to prevent some other tragedy" But we pretend that some killing
> is moral and some killing isn't. I'll grant you that some people believe
> that some killing is necessary but you will never get me to say that any
> killing is moral. It isn't.
The good guys (the Israeli Defense Forces) are killing the bad guys (the
Palestinian Terrorists). What is there about this that you do not
understand?
> You, my friend, need to study your morals a bit more. The Sunday School
> class that I is from 10:30 AM to 11:30 AM on Sundays. My students are 3rd,
> 4th, and 5th graders and most of them have been in my class for at least
> one year. I don't think you'd have any trouble catching up, however.
It is OK to preach your idealism to children, but sooner or later we grow up
and demand something more than that kind of pabulum.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 10:28:35
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
Ed,
There is no use in responding to you with substance because you don't really
want serious discussion. You simply pretend to. I am giving you attention
because that is clearly what you want.
By all means please enjoy it and know that I, your humble servant, am
eternally committed to doing what makes you happy as long as it does not
take away from the happiness of myself and others.
Happy Trails Ed
Jeff
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:t9-dnRJ0XZOZll7bnZ2dnUVZ_hCdnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13c5pdssiovat44@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:7qudnZHtrc_49F_bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for"
>>> monotheism, but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information.
>>> If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do
>>> you go in for polytheism?
>>>
>>
>> I consider polytheism more likely. I believe that there may or may not
>> exist creatures that have all of the attributes that we would say add up
>> to "god". They can create what we call life (it may only be elementary
>> chemestry to them). Even we can destroy it. If such a thing existed, why
>> would there be only one? They probably have no interest in us, however,
>> unless we are somebody's experiment. But I'm using human terms and
>> concepts and they probably don't if they exsit at all. I don't consider
>> this to be certain. I actually consider it to be unlikely. I do consider
>> it to be more likely than the monotheistic god, however.
>
> Stop reading all that ridiculous shit you are reading. It is leading you
> astray. Who ever heard of a Jew who believed in multiple Gods. Even
> Christians and Muslims are not that stupid!
>
>>> It seems your "vision" is everyone is your brother and sister. How does
>>> that change anything? If one of these brothers is killing your family
>>> what do you do? Nothing? If you had to go into armed combat to stop a
>>> a thousand brothers from killing a million other brothers would you do
>>> it?
>>>
>>
>> No! You can not stop violence with violence. If you do, it is a temporary
>> victory at best. It is only when the brothers themselves decide to stop
>> fighting that lasting peace can be achieved.
>
> Nonsense. When you kill an enemy, he is quite dead. That is all that
> matters.
>
>> Did you miss the part of my reply where I said I am a nut and hardly a
>> realist? I'm putting in a separate paragraph so that you see it.
>>
>>> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house
>>> containing enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in
>>> time of war and a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on
>>> the way to school. I would certainly hope you would be able to make a
>>> moral distinction here. If you can't then I doubt you are capable of
>>> making any moral distinctions.
>>
>> I never compared myself to Sherman at the level of details. I see and
>> understand his point but I find anybody blowing up anyone for any reason
>> to be morally reprehensible. You are asking me which is worse? I refuse
>> to acknowledge that the question even has a basis in real ethical values.
>
> Everything under the sun can be calculated better or worse. Hells Bells, I
> do it all the time!
>
>> The level at which Sherman's statement applies is that both groups are
>> blowing up people because of an idea that they believe in. You say one is
>> better than the other. I'm sure you can twist it to a point where I will
>> agree with you. That doesn't make either act a moral one. The commandment
>> (if you believe in them) doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill unless it is
>> necessary to prevent some other tragedy" But we pretend that some killing
>> is moral and some killing isn't. I'll grant you that some people believe
>> that some killing is necessary but you will never get me to say that any
>> killing is moral. It isn't.
>
> The good guys (the Israeli Defense Forces) are killing the bad guys (the
> Palestinian Terrorists). What is there about this that you do not
> understand?
>
>> You, my friend, need to study your morals a bit more. The Sunday School
>> class that I is from 10:30 AM to 11:30 AM on Sundays. My students are
>> 3rd, 4th, and 5th graders and most of them have been in my class for at
>> least one year. I don't think you'd have any trouble catching up,
>> however.
>
> It is OK to preach your idealism to children, but sooner or later we grow
> up and demand something more than that kind of pabulum.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
>
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 20:01:02
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
Jeff Grippe wrote:
> Ed,
>
> There is no use in responding to you with substance because you don't really
> want serious discussion....
HOT DOG! We have a wiener!
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 09:43:34
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c638e1s9bjc44@news.supernews.com...
ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
> Ed,
>
> There is no use in responding to you with substance because you don't
> really want serious discussion. You simply pretend to. I am giving you
> attention because that is clearly what you want.
Jeff, your brain has turned to mush. Say something sensible and you will
find me more than willing to meet you half way. Continue to say incredibly
stupid things and I will give you no quarter. You are an adult after all,
aren't you?
[...]
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:25:18
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:hMSdnXeAipjfjF7bnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
> You are an adult after all, aren't you?
That is one of my favorite questions. In my opinion, and I'm being serious,
"Adult" is a concept that is no more useful than "God".
When you ask that question, you do not mean "Are you biologically mature?".
The answer to that question is yes. I am sexually mature, have facial,
underarm, and pubic hair. I also have grey hair and male pattern baldness at
this point in my life. I have also reached the full height which I am going
to attain. So, biologically, I am an adult.
However, you are asking a very different question. You are asking if I have
accepted a set of world views and opinions the conform to a specific social
norm. The answer to that question is, as I have said many times, no.
What is an Adult, Ed? You are using that word to mean so much more than
biological. You are asking me something like "Don't you realize that you
have childish ideas and that you should adjust them to be more like mine?"
You see, Ed, I like childish ideas. You've never raised a child so you'll
have to take my word here but...
It is far easier to settle disputes between young children. They are not as
stuck in their positions. Ultimately they would rather play than argue. As
they age it gets harder and harder to settle disputes. They come to feel
that they must win for winnings sake. At times they would rather argue than
play because the outcome of the arguement means so much to their egos and
sense of self. As they get older it gets worse and worse.
So you are asking me if I've fallen victim to this thing that we call
"Adulthood"?
Yes I have but I think I see it for what it is.
When the day comes (and I hope it will) that I can ride again, you and I
could, if we were in the same place, get together and ride. Assuming that
the weather is nice we could enjoy the day. We could stop for a cold drink,
enjoy the ride, argue a bit just for fun, and just have a good time.
Do you mean to say that I should have strong feelings about you that would
keep this from happening just because you and I have radically different
ideas about how the world is?
I am trying to move backwards. I would rather play than argue. I don't care
who is right. I've already confessed to being a fool. If you can't tolerate
that type of person then don't come near me.
So you tell me, am I an Adult? I hope the answer is No!
Happy Trails, Ed.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 03:00:10
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:13c6djop3drml64@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:hMSdnXeAipjfjF7bnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> You are an adult after all, aren't you?
>
>
> That is one of my favorite questions. In my opinion, and I'm being
> serious, "Adult" is a concept that is no more useful than "God".
>
> When you ask that question, you do not mean "Are you biologically
> mature?". The answer to that question is yes. I am sexually mature, have
> facial, underarm, and pubic hair. I also have grey hair and male pattern
> baldness at this point in my life. I have also reached the full height
> which I am going to attain. So, biologically, I am an adult.
>
> However, you are asking a very different question. You are asking if I
> have accepted a set of world views and opinions the conform to a specific
> social norm. The answer to that question is, as I have said many times,
> no.
>
> What is an Adult, Ed? You are using that word to mean so much more than
> biological. You are asking me something like "Don't you realize that you
> have childish ideas and that you should adjust them to be more like mine?"
>
> You see, Ed, I like childish ideas. You've never raised a child so you'll
> have to take my word here but...
>
> It is far easier to settle disputes between young children. They are not
> as stuck in their positions. Ultimately they would rather play than argue.
> As they age it gets harder and harder to settle disputes. They come to
> feel that they must win for winnings sake. At times they would rather
> argue than play because the outcome of the arguement means so much to
> their egos and sense of self. As they get older it gets worse and worse.
>
> So you are asking me if I've fallen victim to this thing that we call
> "Adulthood"?
>
> Yes I have but I think I see it for what it is.
>
> When the day comes (and I hope it will) that I can ride again, you and I
> could, if we were in the same place, get together and ride. Assuming that
> the weather is nice we could enjoy the day. We could stop for a cold
> drink, enjoy the ride, argue a bit just for fun, and just have a good
> time.
>
> Do you mean to say that I should have strong feelings about you that would
> keep this from happening just because you and I have radically different
> ideas about how the world is?
>
> I am trying to move backwards. I would rather play than argue. I don't
> care who is right. I've already confessed to being a fool. If you can't
> tolerate that type of person then don't come near me.
>
> So you tell me, am I an Adult? I hope the answer is No!
Nope, you are not an adult mentally, which is the only kind of adult I care
about. You have associated with children for too much of your life and so
you have become as naive as they are. I have always noticed that ALL
teachers are never adults. They remain stuck in juvenility from being around
dumb kids all the time. God, it must be a fate worse than death!
Perry Butler of Fergus Falls, Minnesota, another teacher like you and a
former frequent contributor to ARBR, is also not an adult. He is
irredeemably juvenile. Now Tom Sherman is just another stupid liberal, but
he is an adult. Jim McNamara is only half an adult. His ego bruises too
easily, something left over from childhood no doubt.
Well, Hells Bells, not everyone can be Great like Me! That goes without
saying, but I say it anyway for the benefit of all the fools that pollute
these freaking cycling newsgroups.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 05:32:09
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
So it turns out that we agree. I'm not an adult which is what I want and you
are a great saint which is what you want. So it is possible for there to be
a diverse world of people and everyone gets what they want and nobody is
harmed by the diversity.
Welcome to my world Ed!
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:N_CdnW2ewK2hmVnbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13c6djop3drml64@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>> news:hMSdnXeAipjfjF7bnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>>>
>>> You are an adult after all, aren't you?
>>
>>
>> That is one of my favorite questions. In my opinion, and I'm being
>> serious, "Adult" is a concept that is no more useful than "God".
>>
>> When you ask that question, you do not mean "Are you biologically
>> mature?". The answer to that question is yes. I am sexually mature, have
>> facial, underarm, and pubic hair. I also have grey hair and male pattern
>> baldness at this point in my life. I have also reached the full height
>> which I am going to attain. So, biologically, I am an adult.
>>
>> However, you are asking a very different question. You are asking if I
>> have accepted a set of world views and opinions the conform to a specific
>> social norm. The answer to that question is, as I have said many times,
>> no.
>>
>> What is an Adult, Ed? You are using that word to mean so much more than
>> biological. You are asking me something like "Don't you realize that you
>> have childish ideas and that you should adjust them to be more like
>> mine?"
>>
>> You see, Ed, I like childish ideas. You've never raised a child so you'll
>> have to take my word here but...
>>
>> It is far easier to settle disputes between young children. They are not
>> as stuck in their positions. Ultimately they would rather play than
>> argue. As they age it gets harder and harder to settle disputes. They
>> come to feel that they must win for winnings sake. At times they would
>> rather argue than play because the outcome of the arguement means so much
>> to their egos and sense of self. As they get older it gets worse and
>> worse.
>>
>> So you are asking me if I've fallen victim to this thing that we call
>> "Adulthood"?
>>
>> Yes I have but I think I see it for what it is.
>>
>> When the day comes (and I hope it will) that I can ride again, you and I
>> could, if we were in the same place, get together and ride. Assuming that
>> the weather is nice we could enjoy the day. We could stop for a cold
>> drink, enjoy the ride, argue a bit just for fun, and just have a good
>> time.
>>
>> Do you mean to say that I should have strong feelings about you that
>> would keep this from happening just because you and I have radically
>> different ideas about how the world is?
>>
>> I am trying to move backwards. I would rather play than argue. I don't
>> care who is right. I've already confessed to being a fool. If you can't
>> tolerate that type of person then don't come near me.
>>
>> So you tell me, am I an Adult? I hope the answer is No!
>
> Nope, you are not an adult mentally, which is the only kind of adult I
> care about. You have associated with children for too much of your life
> and so you have become as naive as they are. I have always noticed that
> ALL teachers are never adults. They remain stuck in juvenility from being
> around dumb kids all the time. God, it must be a fate worse than death!
>
> Perry Butler of Fergus Falls, Minnesota, another teacher like you and a
> former frequent contributor to ARBR, is also not an adult. He is
> irredeemably juvenile. Now Tom Sherman is just another stupid liberal, but
> he is an adult. Jim McNamara is only half an adult. His ego bruises too
> easily, something left over from childhood no doubt.
>
> Well, Hells Bells, not everyone can be Great like Me! That goes without
> saying, but I say it anyway for the benefit of all the fools that pollute
> these freaking cycling newsgroups.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
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Date: 15 Aug 2007 03:15:21
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Keats" <keats@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:7qudnZHtrc_49F_bnZ2dnUVZ_sCtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
> news:13c4l09j8bjpa9@news.supernews.com...
>> Well for one, I don't believe in God. I accept my cultural heritage as a
>> Jew but basically I consider Judiasm a monotheistic religion and I don't
>> go in for monothesim.
>>
>> For two, I acknowledge that the human species is tribal and territorial
>> but I don't accept it as an endpoint. I am human and as a human, I am not
>> different from other humans. Infact I am closely related to them. In my
>> opinion, they are all my brothers and sisters. Even those that would not
>> acknowledge me as a brother are still my family.
>>
>> I don't confine myself to the limitations of what I was born into. I am a
>> nut. I am hardly a realist for if I were I should surely know better and
>> the truth is I don't.
>>
>> Sooner or later, my life will come to an end but if my vision only
>> reaches as few a two other people then I have done my job. If there is a
>> monotheistic god then he/she/it will be thrilled with what I have done.
>> If he/she/it isn't, then it isn't a god I want anything to do with
>> anyway.
>>
>> Clear enough?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> "Keats" <keats@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:o6adnQJqmJrYclzbnZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com> wrote in message
>>> news:13c3om5du5k186a@news.supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> He is very ill-educated. He only studied science and engineering and
>>>>> has not a liberal arts education at all. If he had ...
>>>>
>>>> Ah but I have a credible liberal -arts background and I'm far more
>>>> liberal than Mr. Sherman
>>>>
>>>
>>> If that's the case then you must be some kind leftist secular
>>> progressive like Mr. Sherman and not a Jew. What was it, I wonder, that
>>> made you change from being a Jew to being something like what Sherman
>>> turned out to be?
>>>
>>> Disturbing.
>>>
>>> Keats
>>>
>>
>>
>
> You say you don't believe in God and that you don't "go in for"
> monotheism, but I'm not sure why you added the monotheism information.
> If you don't believe in God then you don't believe in monotheism. Do you
> go in for polytheism?
>
> It seems your "vision" is everyone is your brother and sister. How does
> that change anything? If one of these brothers is killing your family
> what do you do? Nothing? If you had to go into armed combat to stop a a
> thousand brothers from killing a million other brothers would you do it?
>
> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house
> containing enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in
> time of war and a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on
> the way to school. I would certainly hope you would be able to make a
> moral distinction here. If you can't then I doubt you are capable of
> making any moral distinctions.
>
> Keats
Bravo Keats! You said it better than I ever could have myself. The main
problem with all liberals is that they have never thought anything through
to its end. The fact is, they have no solution for dealing with evil in this
world. It is why I hate and despise them so much.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Aug 2007 21:55:23
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
(not Tom) Keats LIED:
> ...
> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house containing
> enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in time of war and
> a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on the way to school....
Oh Bullshit!
Change to "Sherman claims moral equivalence to deliberate targeting of
non-combatant civilians by military forces to a suicide bomber blowing
up a bus of school children on the way to school" and I will not argue.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 03:25:31
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@invailid.com > wrote in message
news:46c25ef0$0$24006$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> (not Tom) Keats LIED:
>> ...
>> Sherman claims moral equivalence for soldiers blowing up a house
>> containing enemy combatants making bombs to kill innocent civilians in
>> time of war and a suicide bomber blowing up a bus of school children on
>> the way to school....
>
> Oh Bullshit!
>
> Change to "Sherman claims moral equivalence to deliberate targeting of
> non-combatant civilians by military forces to a suicide bomber blowing up
> a bus of school children on the way to school" and I will not argue.
But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense measures
to take out only the bad guys. If they wanted to behave like the
Palestinians, it would be a slaughter and we would never even have to talk
about collateral damage. Of course, the Palestinians are always hiding
behind civilians anyway, so I really do not have any objection to all of
them being killed.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 19:56:22
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense measures
> to take out only the bad guys....
Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 21:31:31
From: A Muzi
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense
>> measures to take out only the bad guys....
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
Oh, you mean Israeli soldiers who blow themselves up on Palestinian
buses and in crowds? Repeatedly for years? Barrages of randomly-aimed
Israeli rockets into Palestinian houses/schools? for years? Israeli
soldiers tunneling to kidnap Palestinian sentries? Tell us all about it.
OK, Ed Dolan is a bit weird, but what planet does your news come from?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 22:18:29
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
Andrew Muzi wrote:
>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense
>>> measures to take out only the bad guys....
>
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
>
> Oh, you mean Israeli soldiers who blow themselves up on Palestinian
> buses and in crowds? Repeatedly for years? Barrages of randomly-aimed
> Israeli rockets into Palestinian houses/schools? for years? Israeli
> soldiers tunneling to kidnap Palestinian sentries? Tell us all about it.
>
> OK, Ed Dolan is a bit weird, but what planet does your news come from?
Tell me, why are so many more Palestinian civilians dying than Israeli
civilians since the start of the Second Intifada?
How many injured Israelis have died because their ambulance was
prohibited from passing a checkpoint manned by Palestinian soldiers?
How many international observers have been killed by Palestinians?
How many Israeli children have been shot while walking to school by
Palestinian soldiers?
How many Israeli civilians have died from missiles and bombs dropped by
Palestinian aircraft during assassinations of NGO leaders and elected
politicians?
If you believe that the US and European mainstream media is reporting
the full truth of the situation in Palestine, you are grossly
misinformed. The anti-Arab/Muslim bias is blatantly obvious.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 02:37:19
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
"Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman" <sunsetss0003@invailid.com > wrote in message
news:46c3b5ef$0$16295$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>>> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense
>>>> measures to take out only the bad guys....
>>
>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>> Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
>>
>> Oh, you mean Israeli soldiers who blow themselves up on Palestinian buses
>> and in crowds? Repeatedly for years? Barrages of randomly-aimed Israeli
>> rockets into Palestinian houses/schools? for years? Israeli soldiers
>> tunneling to kidnap Palestinian sentries? Tell us all about it.
>>
>> OK, Ed Dolan is a bit weird, but what planet does your news come from?
>
> Tell me, why are so many more Palestinian civilians dying than Israeli
> civilians since the start of the Second Intifada?
>
> How many injured Israelis have died because their ambulance was prohibited
> from passing a checkpoint manned by Palestinian soldiers?
>
> How many international observers have been killed by Palestinians?
>
> How many Israeli children have been shot while walking to school by
> Palestinian soldiers?
>
> How many Israeli civilians have died from missiles and bombs dropped by
> Palestinian aircraft during assassinations of NGO leaders and elected
> politicians?
>
> If you believe that the US and European mainstream media is reporting the
> full truth of the situation in Palestine, you are grossly misinformed. The
> anti-Arab/Muslim bias is blatantly obvious.
I think Mr. Sherman is not only reading the liberal blogs, but he is also
reading the Muslim press off the Internet, such as it is. No one but an
insane person would ever even raise such stupid questions given the
barbarism of the Arabs in the region.
Tom Sherman is a far-left-wing-wacko-nutcase (all one word), something l
have always known from day one, and he is also an anti-Semite. I will make a
deal with him: I will go live in Israel for a year if he will go live in
Palestine for a year. I think he would especially enjoy Gaza as it has a
beach right on the Mediterranean Sea.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 15 Aug 2007 19:41:19
From: Bill Sornson
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
A Muzi wrote:
>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense
>>> measures to take out only the bad guys....
>
> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>> Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
>
> Oh, you mean Israeli soldiers who blow themselves up on Palestinian
> buses and in crowds? Repeatedly for years? Barrages of randomly-aimed
> Israeli rockets into Palestinian houses/schools? for years? Israeli
> soldiers tunneling to kidnap Palestinian sentries? Tell us all about
> it.
> OK, Ed Dolan is a bit weird, but what planet does your news come from?
Tomlinson World Daily.
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 07:25:24
From: John Forrest Tomlinson
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:41:19 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me >
wrote:
>A Muzi wrote:
>>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>>> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense
>>>> measures to take out only the bad guys....
>>
>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>> Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
>>
>> Oh, you mean Israeli soldiers who blow themselves up on Palestinian
>> buses and in crowds? Repeatedly for years? Barrages of randomly-aimed
>> Israeli rockets into Palestinian houses/schools? for years? Israeli
>> soldiers tunneling to kidnap Palestinian sentries? Tell us all about
>> it.
>> OK, Ed Dolan is a bit weird, but what planet does your news come from?
>
>Tomlinson World Daily.
Where do you get your news Sorni? I'm confident I'm profoundly more
informed about the world than you, with information from both more
reliable sources and more diverse sources.
So where do you get your news Sorni? You've never really answered
that question.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
|
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Date: 16 Aug 2007 21:24:45
From: Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman
Subject: Re: Tom Sherman - liberal, socialist, communist!
|
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:41:19 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
> wrote:
>
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>>>> But the Israeli Defense Forces always try to pinpoint their offense
>>>>> measures to take out only the bad guys....
>>> Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
>>>> Only in the US and right-wing Israeli and European media.
>>> Oh, you mean Israeli soldiers who blow themselves up on Palestinian
>>> buses and in crowds? Repeatedly for years? Barrages of randomly-aimed
>>> Israeli rockets into Palestinian houses/schools? for years? Israeli
>>> soldiers tunneling to kidnap Palestinian sentries? Tell us all about
>>> it.
>>> OK, Ed Dolan is a bit weird, but what planet does your news come from?
>> Tomlinson World Daily.
>
> Where do you get your news Sorni? I'm confident I'm profoundly more
> informed about the world than you, with information from both more
> reliable sources and more diverse sources.
>
> So where do you get your news Sorni? You've never really answered
> that question.
Probably here: <http://www.whitehouse.gov/ >. Or maybe here:
<http://www.whitehouse.org/ >. ;)
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
|
