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Date: 21 Jan 2007 20:58:03
From: 32GO
Subject: Tour de Palm Springs
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Hey guys -
One of our biggest and best winter rides is coming up
next month. The Tour de Palm Springs usually gets
about 7000 riders, with a nice showing of recumbent
bikes and trikes. They have rides from 5 miles up to
a century, and the organizers do a great job. TdPS is
a nice mix - a big city event with TV coverage and
minor celebrities, but with a kind of friendly small
town feel to it. One of my favorite gradual downhills
is part of the long rides. Their website is:
http://www.tourdepalmsprings.com/
Please rattle my cage off-group if I can answer any
questions or provide any information. Look us up if
you do decide to do the ride!
Regards,
Wayne
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 22:45:25
From: 32GO
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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Jeff wrote:
> In my opinion, Tadpole trikes are "tippy". I've owned
> inexpensive ones and high end ones and while the
> TriCruiser was "tippier" because of its high center of
> gravity, the WindCheetah and the Greenspeed both can
> easily go up on two wheels when cornering.
I've ridden with only one person who was afraid to let
his speed build up rolling downhill on a tadpole. He
only rode a couple of times, and I think even he may
have gotten comfortable with the trike with a bit more
saddle time. As I said, I've ridden with dozens of other
men and women, even folks getting up in years and others
with physical impairments that essentially necessitated
their transition from bike to trike, and all of them
felt very comfortable with a tadpole's stability.
I apologize to Jeff, since I wasn't aware that he owned
or had even spent any serious saddle time on a tadpole
other than the Tricruiser he was riding when he had his
accident. There's a HUGE difference between that trike
and one that I would classify as a well-designed late
model sports touring tadpole.
I know this is a subjective issue, but I certainly would
not consider a current model GS to be 'tippy'. Compared
to a Tricruiser, I'd expect its tipover speed in a
typical turn to be at least double, unless the operator
is doing some radical gymnastics on the Tri. Of course,
it's possible to roll any single tadpole, maybe even a
tandem if you really work at it, but my problems have
been very rare except when I was very conscious of
pushing the envelope.
The most common incidents I've seen are turning from a
street onto a bikepath accessed up a short ramp. This
is effectively a reverse cambered turn, and it can be
a bit of a surprise for folks who aren't used to the
feel of a trike. But hey, it is subjective, and if a
person doesn't find his 'happy spot' on a tadpole, so
be it.
Regards,
Wayne
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Date: 25 Jan 2007 05:15:47
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"32GO" <wayne@32go.us > wrote in message
news:1169707525.594657.30990@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> I apologize to Jeff, since I wasn't aware that he owned
> or had even spent any serious saddle time on a tadpole
> other than the Tricruiser he was riding when he had his
> accident. There's a HUGE difference between that trike
> and one that I would classify as a well-designed late
> model sports touring tadpole.
>
No apology necessary. The tendency to tip could have something to do with my
weight. I have no problem piloting a trike in the mid to high 20's but when
I go down a hill of any decent size, I'm very quickly in the 30's and the
trike does not feel stable. I've seen videos (which are on the WindCheetah
site) of someone who could corner at really high speeds by leaning quite far
out of the trike to act as a counter-balance. I could do this a little and
probably would have gotten better at it if I kept it. Meanwhile the
Greenspeed has 16" wheels so it is very low. I still wouldn't want to ride
it much over 30.
If you look at my pictures (the link is in the rail trails thread), the rail
trail trip was done on the Greenspeed.
Jeff
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 17:51:08
From: 32GO
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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On this topic, but in another thread, Jeff wrote:
> As far as downhill goes, I don't find it fun at all...
> I find myself having to ride the brakes. It is not the
> "whee" experience at all... Next to level I like going
> up. My least favorite thing to do is go down...
I was sorta surprised to read this from Jeff. I suspect,
however, it has more to do with his choice of trike than
with any other more absolute factor. Jeff had an American
Cruiser or Tricruiser, an inexpensive tadpole with a very
high seat and joystick steering.
IMNSHO, the downhill experience of a modern low-slung,
stiff, stable tadpole with low-gain USS is a whole 'nother
rocket ride. There's no reason anyone should grab the
brakes until speeds get above 30 MPH on any kind of open
low-traffic trail or bike lane. I ride regularly with a
lot of different folks, some well up in their 70s, and I
rarely see anything but big grins as they come zipping
down one of our long, fast local downhills. Some of our
guys with (presumably) somewhat higher testosterone
levels routinely hit speeds in the 50s, and still, I
don't know anyone who's crashed a tadpole going that
fast.
There are a few low-cost tadpoles on the ket now and
some older designs that I would not want to ride at 30
MPH, but even the $1300 WizWheelz TerraTrike Cruiser is
a stable, safe and FUN ride for most downhill runs. My
personal suggestion to Jeff and anyone else who worries
about a tadpole's stability at speed is to try one of
the new designs. I think you're likely to find a whole
range of cycling experiences you may otherwise have
missed.
If you see a photo of me coming down Thousand Palms
Canyon Road in the TdPS, I'll be going faster than 30
MPH, I'll be grinning and I won't be grabbing my brakes!
Regards,
Wayne
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Date: 24 Jan 2007 21:38:42
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"32GO" <wayne@32go.us > wrote in message
news:1169689868.572302.287630@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> On this topic, but in another thread, Jeff wrote:
>
>> As far as downhill goes, I don't find it fun at all...
>> I find myself having to ride the brakes. It is not the
>> "whee" experience at all... Next to level I like going
>> up. My least favorite thing to do is go down...
>
> I was sorta surprised to read this from Jeff. I suspect,
> however, it has more to do with his choice of trike than
> with any other more absolute factor. Jeff had an American
> Cruiser or Tricruiser, an inexpensive tadpole with a very
> high seat and joystick steering.
>
I also have a Greenspeed GT-3 and I've owned a WindCheetah. I didn't feel
any better at high speeds on those trikes. When I got the WindCheetah, I
managed to get it up on two wheels in parking lot (I bought it used from
someone and met him at a mall to pick it up. I ended up trading the
WindCheetah for the Greenspeed. In my opinion, Tadpole trikes are "tippy".
I've owned inexpensive ones and high end ones and while the TriCruiser was
"tippier" because of its high center of gravity, the WindCheetah and the
Greenspeed both can easily go up on two wheels when cornering.
Jeff
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 08:42:14
From: 32GO
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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Roger Zoul wrote:
> Interesting profile for this ride. I wonder what it must be
> like....climbing at the beginning, and the dropping... Do
> you know the total elevation gain?
My simple answer to Roger's question is 'No'. I'm not
even sure exactly how that's calculated. The profile
(on the TdPS website) should give you an idea what to
expect. I've never done the century, only the 55 and
25 miles rides. On both long rides there's a gradual
climb from the start, with one short set of fairly
steep switchbacks, then the 55 gives you a nice long
straight drop on Dillon Road. Next is a gradual climb
of about 10 miles to the high point of the ride at
Sky Valley. After some really fun rollers, the 55
turns onto Thousand Palms Canyon, which drops 1000
feet over about 10 miles, and which is an absolute
blast on a tadpole, with swooping turns and no cross
traffic - one of those very, very FUN chunks of a route
that remind you: What doesn't go up doesn't get to
come back down!
The TdPS is, by SoCal standards anyway, a relatively
'flat' route, with no killer 'grinder' of a climb. No
one should have any trouble on the 55 at least, even
with stock Kettwiesel gearing.
Regards,
Wayne
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 16:17:15
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"32GO" <wayne@32go.us > wrote in message
news:1169570534.555038.104440@13g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>
>> Interesting profile for this ride. I wonder what it must be
>> like....climbing at the beginning, and the dropping... Do
>> you know the total elevation gain?
>
>
> My simple answer to Roger's question is 'No'. I'm not
> even sure exactly how that's calculated. The profile
> (on the TdPS website) should give you an idea what to
> expect. I've never done the century, only the 55 and
> 25 miles rides. On both long rides there's a gradual
> climb from the start, with one short set of fairly
> steep switchbacks, then the 55 gives you a nice long
> straight drop on Dillon Road. Next is a gradual climb
> of about 10 miles to the high point of the ride at
> Sky Valley. After some really fun rollers, the 55
> turns onto Thousand Palms Canyon, which drops 1000
> feet over about 10 miles, and which is an absolute
> blast on a tadpole, with swooping turns and no cross
> traffic - one of those very, very FUN chunks of a route
> that remind you: What doesn't go up doesn't get to
> come back down!
>
> The TdPS is, by SoCal standards anyway, a relatively
> 'flat' route, with no killer 'grinder' of a climb. No
> one should have any trouble on the 55 at least, even
> with stock Kettwiesel gearing.
Only if you got the mountain bike gearing (Sclumpf). The stock KW gearing is
only 9 gears and that will not get you UP anything.
Who the hell wants to do "a gradual climb of about 10 miles." I never want
to climb anything more than a mile.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 15:43:57
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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32GO wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Interesting profile for this ride. I wonder what it must be
::: like....climbing at the beginning, and the dropping... Do
::: you know the total elevation gain?
::
::
:: My simple answer to Roger's question is 'No'. I'm not
:: even sure exactly how that's calculated. The profile
:: (on the TdPS website) should give you an idea what to
:: expect. I've never done the century, only the 55 and
:: 25 miles rides. On both long rides there's a gradual
:: climb from the start, with one short set of fairly
:: steep switchbacks, then the 55 gives you a nice long
:: straight drop on Dillon Road. Next is a gradual climb
:: of about 10 miles to the high point of the ride at
:: Sky Valley. After some really fun rollers, the 55
:: turns onto Thousand Palms Canyon, which drops 1000
:: feet over about 10 miles, and which is an absolute
:: blast on a tadpole, with swooping turns and no cross
:: traffic - one of those very, very FUN chunks of a route
:: that remind you: What doesn't go up doesn't get to
:: come back down!
::
:: The TdPS is, by SoCal standards anyway, a relatively
:: 'flat' route, with no killer 'grinder' of a climb. No
:: one should have any trouble on the 55 at least, even
:: with stock Kettwiesel gearing.
::
Ok...sounds like a wonderful ride. I think I looked at the elevation chart
and came away thinking that they climb was a lot steeper than it really is
over the first 16 miles or so....
:: Regards,
:: Wayne
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 16:26:59
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:12rcslpqhce7i8c@news.supernews.com...
> 32GO wrote:
> :: Roger Zoul wrote:
> ::
> ::: Interesting profile for this ride. I wonder what it must be
> ::: like....climbing at the beginning, and the dropping... Do
> ::: you know the total elevation gain?
> ::
> ::
> :: My simple answer to Roger's question is 'No'. I'm not
> :: even sure exactly how that's calculated. The profile
> :: (on the TdPS website) should give you an idea what to
> :: expect. I've never done the century, only the 55 and
> :: 25 miles rides. On both long rides there's a gradual
> :: climb from the start, with one short set of fairly
> :: steep switchbacks, then the 55 gives you a nice long
> :: straight drop on Dillon Road. Next is a gradual climb
> :: of about 10 miles to the high point of the ride at
> :: Sky Valley. After some really fun rollers, the 55
> :: turns onto Thousand Palms Canyon, which drops 1000
> :: feet over about 10 miles, and which is an absolute
> :: blast on a tadpole, with swooping turns and no cross
> :: traffic - one of those very, very FUN chunks of a route
> :: that remind you: What doesn't go up doesn't get to
> :: come back down!
> ::
> :: The TdPS is, by SoCal standards anyway, a relatively
> :: 'flat' route, with no killer 'grinder' of a climb. No
> :: one should have any trouble on the 55 at least, even
> :: with stock Kettwiesel gearing.
> ::
>
> Ok...sounds like a wonderful ride. I think I looked at the elevation
> chart and came away thinking that they climb was a lot steeper than it
> really is over the first 16 miles or so....
Roger Zoul has got it right and is being woefully mislead by Wayne Leggett.
To climb any of those freaking mountains in the Far West is a misery on a
recumbent.
Recumbents are wonderful, but only on the flats. If you are going to be
riding a bike in the mountains, you had better make damn sure it is an
upright.
Anyone on this group stupid enough to think a recumbent could hold its own
with the uprights on the Tour de France in the mountains.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 22 Jan 2007 11:03:07
From: Roger Zoul
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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32GO wrote:
:: Hey guys -
::
:: One of our biggest and best winter rides is coming up
:: next month. The Tour de Palm Springs usually gets
:: about 7000 riders, with a nice showing of recumbent
:: bikes and trikes. They have rides from 5 miles up to
:: a century, and the organizers do a great job. TdPS is
:: a nice mix - a big city event with TV coverage and
:: minor celebrities, but with a kind of friendly small
:: town feel to it. One of my favorite gradual downhills
:: is part of the long rides. Their website is:
::
:: http://www.tourdepalmsprings.com/
::
:: Please rattle my cage off-group if I can answer any
:: questions or provide any information. Look us up if
:: you do decide to do the ride!
::
:: Regards,
:: Wayne
Interesting profile for this ride. I wonder what it must be
like....climbing at the beginning, and the dropping until a hole! Good
think the climb out ain't so bad! I wish I could take a crack at this. Do
you know the total elevation gain?
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Date: 22 Jan 2007 17:45:50
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:12r9nr7gl8o8v12@news.supernews.com...
> 32GO wrote:
> :: Hey guys -
> ::
> :: One of our biggest and best winter rides is coming up
> :: next month. The Tour de Palm Springs usually gets
> :: about 7000 riders, with a nice showing of recumbent
> :: bikes and trikes. They have rides from 5 miles up to
> :: a century, and the organizers do a great job. TdPS is
> :: a nice mix - a big city event with TV coverage and
> :: minor celebrities, but with a kind of friendly small
> :: town feel to it. One of my favorite gradual downhills
> :: is part of the long rides. Their website is:
> ::
> :: http://www.tourdepalmsprings.com/
> ::
> :: Please rattle my cage off-group if I can answer any
> :: questions or provide any information. Look us up if
> :: you do decide to do the ride!
>
> Interesting profile for this ride. I wonder what it must be
> like....climbing at the beginning, and the dropping until a hole! Good
> think the climb out ain't so bad! I wish I could take a crack at this.
> Do you know the total elevation gain?
It's no fun to climb any kind of hill at all on a recumbent. A really great
ride is from Fargo, North Dakota to Winnipeg, Manitoba. It is all perfectly
flat and ideal for recumbents. Anyone who rides a recumbent in the
mountainous West is crazy as a hoot owl.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 12:44:17
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:KvOdnQlAF4td0SjYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@prairiewave.com...
> It's no fun to climb any kind of hill at all on a recumbent.
Well we each get to decide what is fun don't we?
Being a large person, I've always hated hills, until I got my first trike.
Once I got the trike, however, hill were actually fun. I pop it into my
lowest gear and just ride on up. I never have to walk up the hill. Nothing
is too steep. I think it's fun. It is hard work and quite exhausting but it
is also fun and satisfying.
Jeff
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Date: 23 Jan 2007 16:02:38
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tour de Palm Springs
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"Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com > wrote in message
news:12rcihjlqv4peb1@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:KvOdnQlAF4td0SjYnZ2dnUVZ_riknZ2d@prairiewave.com...
>
>> It's no fun to climb any kind of hill at all on a recumbent.
>
> Well we each get to decide what is fun don't we?
Not really! There are universals that apply to all.
> Being a large person, I've always hated hills, until I got my first trike.
> Once I got the trike, however, hill were actually fun. I pop it into my
> lowest gear and just ride on up. I never have to walk up the hill. Nothing
> is too steep. I think it's fun. It is hard work and quite exhausting but
> it is also fun and satisfying.
Riding UP a hill "is hard work and exhausting." Riding DOWN a hill "is fun
and satisfying." Glad we got that straightened out!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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