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Main
Date: 18 Jul 2005 20:22:48
From: Loft
Subject: Two front or back?
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I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
the delta and tadpole arrangements?
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Date: 22 Jul 2005 10:52:43
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
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Jeff Grippe wrote:
<snip >
>
> Have you tried introducing them to the Yak Fat (tm) concept? I will grant
> you that like my good self, many recumbent riders will not feel the need to
> carry extra fat even if it is the miracle Yak Fat (tm). The Yak Fat (tm)
> won't help for the bearded crowd, however.
Actually, usage of any fat-based topical products would strongly
mandate against beard-wearing. Cleaning bugs out of a dry beard is
unpleasant; clearing out fat-drenched bugs would be a sojourn in the
blackest pits of H3ll...
In the case of Yak Fat, note that the original users thereof (Tibetans,
if I recall correctly) tend to have sparse facial hair. I leave it as
an exercise to the reader to determine if this is the cause of, or an
effect of, Yak Fat utilization.
Best,
Dan
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Date: 22 Jul 2005 03:31:45
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
Edward Dolan wrote:
<snip >
> Beards are for savages and third world peoples who cannot access civilized
> amenities. Thus spake Zarathustra.
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
So, bicycle tourists lacking access to civilized amenities can be
forgiven, then?
(I ask because I have found nigh-uncontrollable problems with pedal
steer when I attempt to shave while riding my LWB...)
Best,
Dan
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Date: 22 Jul 2005 09:03:28
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Dan B." <reddan@trimestigus.net > wrote in message
news:1122028305.044012.304200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> <snip>
>> Beards are for savages and third world peoples who cannot access
>> civilized
>> amenities. Thus spake Zarathustra.
>>
>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
> So, bicycle tourists lacking access to civilized amenities can be
> forgiven, then?
>
> (I ask because I have found nigh-uncontrollable problems with pedal
> steer when I attempt to shave while riding my LWB...)
>
> Best,
> Dan
Yes, it is just barely permissible to go for a week without shaving if you
are on a bicycle tour. I will admit I look like a bum after 2 days without
shaving. I call it my Arafat look. But it is better if you at least shave
every other day at the minimum. The two things I always have to do when on a
bike tour is to wash my hands frequently and to shave at least every other
day. Then I feel clean and civilized and prepared to meet the world.
I have been on bike tours where some are obsessed with cleanliness and make
a royal nuisance of themselves because of it. They caterwaul about hot
showers until it makes you want to throw up. Others are just the opposite.
They go for the entire week without shaving and end up looking very scruffy.
Surely there is a happy medium. You are not ever going to look like you
stepped out of a band box on a bicycle tour, but one needn't end up looking
like a bum either.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
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Date: 22 Jul 2005 11:43:14
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:IPKdnbL5871fYX3fRVn-rg@prairiewave.com...
>
>
> I have been on bike tours where some are obsessed with cleanliness and
> make a royal nuisance of themselves because of it. They caterwaul about
> hot showers until it makes you want to throw up. Others are just the
> opposite. They go for the entire week without shaving and end up looking
> very scruffy. Surely there is a happy medium.
Have you tried introducing them to the Yak Fat (tm) concept? I will grant
you that like my good self, many recumbent riders will not feel the need to
carry extra fat even if it is the miracle Yak Fat (tm). The Yak Fat (tm)
won't help for the bearded crowd, however. There are just some things you
can't get through to people no matter how hard you try. But why am I telling
you this?
I understand that Yak Fat (tm) is available as a liquid. Maybe you could put
some in a spray bottle and spray it on your fellow riders when they aren't
looking. I'm sure that is wondrous effects should be felt fairly quickly.
You can then take credit and be a hero to your fellow riders just like you
are already a hero to this NG.
You could have a whole Yak Fat (tm) business complete with website. This is
another one of those ideas that I wish I'd thought of. Ah well.
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Date: 23 Jul 2005 03:44:15
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11e250ep2q6m42a@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:IPKdnbL5871fYX3fRVn-rg@prairiewave.com...
>>
>>
>> I have been on bike tours where some are obsessed with cleanliness and
>> make a royal nuisance of themselves because of it. They caterwaul about
>> hot showers until it makes you want to throw up. Others are just the
>> opposite. They go for the entire week without shaving and end up looking
>> very scruffy. Surely there is a happy medium.
>
>
> Have you tried introducing them to the Yak Fat (tm) concept? I will grant
> you that like my good self, many recumbent riders will not feel the need
> to carry extra fat even if it is the miracle Yak Fat (tm). The Yak Fat
> (tm) won't help for the bearded crowd, however. There are just some things
> you can't get through to people no matter how hard you try. But why am I
> telling you this?
>
> I understand that Yak Fat (tm) is available as a liquid. Maybe you could
> put some in a spray bottle and spray it on your fellow riders when they
> aren't looking. I'm sure that is wondrous effects should be felt fairly
> quickly. You can then take credit and be a hero to your fellow riders just
> like you are already a hero to this NG.
>
> You could have a whole Yak Fat (tm) business complete with website. This
> is another one of those ideas that I wish I'd thought of. Ah well.
You have taken content from another thread and presented it here. Try to
keep your threads straight, why don't you?
However, since you are saying nothing at all here are my original responses:
"Good humor overall is a terrific bore. See Jeff Grippe's latest efforts on
the yak fat thing in this regard. I mean to make some points as I go along
and you can only do that by getting under the skin and causing some
irritation. I am very good at this and poor Jeff hasn't a clue. Meinecke to
his credit does not even attempt to do what I do. Therefore, he comes across
as a nicer guy, but infinitely duller. Same for Jeff Grippe.
Not everyone can do what I do because it requires unconventional thinking
combined with intelligence and the courage to say what others fear to say
due to political correctness.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
Well, this is what happens when your inferiors like Jeff Grippe try to be
funny.
The Tibetan yak fat thing was a throw away line that referenced your concern
about being smelly. The Tibetans use the yak fat in order to ward off the
cold, but you can imagine how it must smell. But the Tibetans are a sensible
people because they are not concerned all that much about how they smell.
They only bath once a year even though covered in yak fat. They would rather
be warm and smell than be cold, clean and not smell.
But hey, if other idiots here think you are funny, then go for it. But the
test
will be to amuse me - and I am not easily amused because I am cursed
with a great intelligence."
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
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Date: 24 Jul 2005 20:58:21
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:pvWdndkE4_Xvnn_fRVn-oA@prairiewave.com...
>
> The Tibetan yak fat thing was a throw away line that referenced your
> concern
> about being smelly. The Tibetans use the yak fat in order to ward off the
> cold, but you can imagine how it must smell. But the Tibetans are a
> sensible
> people because they are not concerned all that much about how they smell.
> They only bath once a year even though covered in yak fat. They would
> rather
> be warm and smell than be cold, clean and not smell.
>
Eddie you seem to be running hot and cold on the Yak Fat (tm) idea. I've
spent the weekend sourcing manufacturers and now you say its a "throw away
line"
I've spent the weekend working out the details of the line and I was
counting on you to do the Camelback Showerhead thing (although it appears to
no longer be necessary).
Look Ed. I would appreciate it if you don't begin a project that you have no
intention of seeing through.
Think of the water that we would save if people only had to bathe once a
year. Half the savings on many peoples water bills would pay for the Yak Fat
(tm) garments. And now you call it a throwaway?
Frankly Ed, I don't like your attitude!
Your former partner,
Jeff
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Date: 24 Jul 2005 20:47:35
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11e8edbfhpugv21@news.supernews.com...
[...]
> Think of the water that we would save if people only had to bathe once a
> year. Half the savings on many peoples water bills would pay for the Yak
> Fat (tm) garments. And now you call it a throwaway?
You are probably the kind of jerk who takes showers twice a day. I can just
picture you on a bike tour blathering all day long about hot showers. And
don't forget to hand wash those stinky shorts and those stinky jerseys of
yours either each and every night. After you have accomplished those two
chores you can go and pig out at dinner and justify it by all the calories
you are burning up cycling. The one thing that will never occur to you is
how disgusting you are.
It is types like Jeff Grippe who use too much water and eat too much food
who are depleting the resources of the planet. It would be better if he
would just sweat like a man and be smelly like the rest of us. Instead, he
complains like a woman who cannot attend to her boudoir.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
PS. Jeff is now being kill filed like crazy for his idiotic posts, the one
thing he wanted least. He is being kill filed because he wants to play the
fool. Those who kill filed me at least did it for a better reason than that.
It is because I told them something about themselves that they would rather
not hear.
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Date: 25 Jul 2005 06:02:05
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:wM2dnfSSZqgl2XnfRVn-rA@prairiewave.com...
>
> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
> news:11e8edbfhpugv21@news.supernews.com...
> [...]
>> Think of the water that we would save if people only had to bathe once a
>> year. Half the savings on many peoples water bills would pay for the Yak
>> Fat (tm) garments. And now you call it a throwaway?
>
> You are probably the kind of jerk who takes showers twice a day. I can
> just picture you on a bike tour blathering all day long about hot showers.
> And don't forget to hand wash those stinky shorts and those stinky jerseys
> of yours either each and every night. After you have accomplished those
> two chores you can go and pig out at dinner and justify it by all the
> calories you are burning up cycling. The one thing that will never occur
> to you is how disgusting you are.
>
> It is types like Jeff Grippe who use too much water and eat too much food
> who are depleting the resources of the planet. It would be better if he
> would just sweat like a man and be smelly like the rest of us. Instead, he
> complains like a woman who cannot attend to her boudoir.
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>
> PS. Jeff is now being kill filed like crazy for his idiotic posts, the one
> thing he wanted least. He is being kill filed because he wants to play the
> fool. Those who kill filed me at least did it for a better reason than
> that. It is because I told them something about themselves that they would
> rather not hear.
>
>
Eddie, I'm starting to think you don't love me anymore. I would type a
longer message but I can't see through the tears. But at least I'm getting a
shower without having to resort to wasting the resources of the planet.
Goodbye Eddie, you savage brute!
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| | | | | | | | |
Date: 25 Jul 2005 15:25:40
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11e9e8oionmhlb9@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:wM2dnfSSZqgl2XnfRVn-rA@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7> wrote in message
>> news:11e8edbfhpugv21@news.supernews.com...
>> [...]
>>> Think of the water that we would save if people only had to bathe once a
>>> year. Half the savings on many peoples water bills would pay for the Yak
>>> Fat (tm) garments. And now you call it a throwaway?
>>
>> You are probably the kind of jerk who takes showers twice a day. I can
>> just picture you on a bike tour blathering all day long about hot
>> showers. And don't forget to hand wash those stinky shorts and those
>> stinky jerseys of yours either each and every night. After you have
>> accomplished those two chores you can go and pig out at dinner and
>> justify it by all the calories you are burning up cycling. The one thing
>> that will never occur to you is how disgusting you are.
>>
>> It is types like Jeff Grippe who use too much water and eat too much food
>> who are depleting the resources of the planet. It would be better if he
>> would just sweat like a man and be smelly like the rest of us. Instead,
>> he complains like a woman who cannot attend to her boudoir.
>>
>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>>
>> PS. Jeff is now being kill filed like crazy for his idiotic posts, the
>> one thing he wanted least. He is being kill filed because he wants to
>> play the fool. Those who kill filed me at least did it for a better
>> reason than that. It is because I told them something about themselves
>> that they would rather not hear.
>>
>>
>
> Eddie, I'm starting to think you don't love me anymore. I would type a
> longer message but I can't see through the tears. But at least I'm getting
> a shower without having to resort to wasting the resources of the planet.
> Goodbye Eddie, you savage brute!
Jeff knows how to disarm me up to a point, but still he should not play the
fool here on ARBR. He is too intelligent for that and there are plenty of
natural born fools who do not have to work at it like he does. Mr. Tom
Sherman would occasionally take this tack with me too and it never worked
for him any better than it works for Jeff. Why? Like Jeff, Tom had too much
natural intelligence to pull it off. We had all best stay in character and
not pretend to be something that we aren't.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
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Date: 25 Jul 2005 01:17:31
From: Indiana Mike
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:58:21 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote:
>
>"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>news:pvWdndkE4_Xvnn_fRVn-oA@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> The Tibetan yak fat thing was a throw away line that referenced your
>> concern
>> about being smelly.<snip>
...
>>
>
<snip >
>
>Look Ed. I would appreciate it if you don't begin a project that you have no
>intention of seeing through.
>
>Think of the water that we would save if people only had to bathe once a
>year. Half the savings on many peoples water bills would pay for the Yak Fat
>(tm) garments. And now you call it a throwaway?
>
>Frankly Ed, I don't like your attitude!
>
>Your former partner,
>
>Jeff
>
Jeff i think you are just beginning to understand the trewly great
greatnes of Ed Dolan. His throwaways are our gold!
Mike
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| |
Date: 22 Jul 2005 03:27:25
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
Jeff Grippe wrote:
<snip >
> Hmmm. I never had my soul checked out. My soul might in fact be bearded even
> while my face remains void of hair. There could be all sorts of other
> dimensional bugs caught in my soul-beard.
>
> Y'know Dan, I really didn't need one more thing to worry about.
>
> Can those people who claim to read aura's tell me if my soul is bearded?
Possibly, but only the non-l!beral ones can be trusted to tell you the
truth...
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| |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 18:26:50
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
Mike Rice wrote:
<snip >
>
> PS-It must have been a while since Ed saw me. Except for one winter my
> beard has been gone for thirty years now.
I think there may be some misunderstandings being promoted here; while
you may THINK that you have been beardless for years, only your cheeks
have been bare. Your soul is obviously still bearded, as Mr. Dolan has
so capably discerned.
The bearded soul of a recumbent rider is indeed a repulsive thing; the
bearded face, on the other hand, is merely mildly distasteful at worst.
(Dependent on the number of insects that have become entangled in the
follicles, of course!)
Best,
Dan
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| | |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 22:40:33
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Dan B." <reddan@trimestigus.net > wrote in message
news:1121995610.743389.23990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> The bearded soul of a recumbent rider is indeed a repulsive thing; the
> bearded face, on the other hand, is merely mildly distasteful at worst.
> (Dependent on the number of insects that have become entangled in the
> follicles, of course!)
>
Hmmm. I never had my soul checked out. My soul might in fact be bearded even
while my face remains void of hair. There could be all sorts of other
dimensional bugs caught in my soul-beard.
Y'know Dan, I really didn't need one more thing to worry about.
Can those people who claim to read aura's tell me if my soul is bearded?
|
| |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 17:18:01
From: Loft
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
loft@candlet.co.uk wrote...
Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.
|
| | |
Date: 20 Jul 2005 15:11:32
From: James B. Andrews
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
I own a Penninger Voyager and so does my wife...
I broke my leg last Aug 6th when I was riding my Rans Stratus and hit
a curb. I was NOT wearing any device to attach my feet to the pedals
and when my heal hit the curb, it came off the pedal, got sucked under
and my was broken..
While recuperating I researched going to a trike. I suffer from the
effects of having Transverse Myelitis and my lower legs and feet are
partially paralyzed. I rode the EZ 3 and a Penninger Traveler and
ordered a Penninger Voyager and,,,,,, I LOVE IT!!!! I chose the
Penninger because it is built MUCH better than the EZ 3.. The
Penninger is built like a watch and built like a tank... I can't walk
very well or for very long and my Penninger lets me go almost
everywhere...
I brought it home and my wife rode it for about 200 feet, turned
around and said "I want one,,, now". 4 days later she took delivery
of her trike and loves it... We try to do at least one 15 - 20 mile
ride a week. When she works on the weekend she rides her trike to work
and takes it inside the building and parks it in back of her in her
cubicle.
The trikes have opened a whole new world of enjoyment for both of
us... For instance, near our house is a road about 5 miles long that
has a river and old trees on one side and old homes and farms on the
other and,,, because of it's location, there is almost no traffic on
it. Last Sunday we went for a ride there, riding at about 5 MPH, side
by side, looking at the leaves turning. We talked to some walkers,
picked up some leaves, looked at some swans, not geese, swans, found a
old deserted factory, watched some people fly fishing, looked at some
beautiful homes and finally talked with and petted two horses... We
rode for about 2 1/2 hours and covered about 10 miles... It was
delightful!!!! We never got off the trikes...
On one of our rides we met a man who was a machinist at a college. I
asked just what a machinist at a college does and he said he worked in
the research department making mechanical devices, usually one of, and
other dies and fixtures. He looked at my trike and then lifted the
front end and looked at the underside. After several minutes he said,
"This was made by a real craftsman,,, Looks like a lot of this was
made on CNC machines. This should last you for ever"...
One last thought,,, order it with Power Grips.. I would't ride
without them...
Any Questions - Just Ask..
Jim Andrews Columbus/Phoenix
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:18:01 +0100, Loft <loft@candlet.co.uk > wrote:
>
>loft@candlet.co.uk wrote...
>
>Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
>comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
>was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
>little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
>and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
>looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
>although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
>borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
>must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.
|
| | | |
Date: 22 Jul 2005 13:59:31
From: What Me Worry?
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"James B. Andrews" <dandrew@insight.rr.com > wrote in message
news:71qsd158so7kvfshkoq1gtq45nuncfbhps@4ax.com...
>
> I own a Penninger Voyager and so does my wife...
>
> I broke my leg last Aug 6th when I was riding my Rans Stratus and hit
> a curb. I was NOT wearing any device to attach my feet to the pedals
> and when my heal hit the curb, it came off the pedal, got sucked under
> and my was broken..
>
> While recuperating I researched going to a trike. I suffer from the
> effects of having Transverse Myelitis and my lower legs and feet are
> partially paralyzed. I rode the EZ 3 and a Penninger Traveler and
> ordered a Penninger Voyager and,,,,,, I LOVE IT!!!! I chose the
> Penninger because it is built MUCH better than the EZ 3.. The
> Penninger is built like a watch and built like a tank... I can't walk
> very well or for very long and my Penninger lets me go almost
> everywhere...
>
> I brought it home and my wife rode it for about 200 feet, turned
> around and said "I want one,,, now". 4 days later she took delivery
> of her trike and loves it... We try to do at least one 15 - 20 mile
> ride a week. When she works on the weekend she rides her trike to work
> and takes it inside the building and parks it in back of her in her
> cubicle.
>
> The trikes have opened a whole new world of enjoyment for both of
> us... For instance, near our house is a road about 5 miles long that
> has a river and old trees on one side and old homes and farms on the
> other and,,, because of it's location, there is almost no traffic on
> it. Last Sunday we went for a ride there, riding at about 5 MPH, side
> by side, looking at the leaves turning. We talked to some walkers,
> picked up some leaves, looked at some swans, not geese, swans, found a
> old deserted factory, watched some people fly fishing, looked at some
> beautiful homes and finally talked with and petted two horses... We
> rode for about 2 1/2 hours and covered about 10 miles... It was
> delightful!!!! We never got off the trikes...
>
> On one of our rides we met a man who was a machinist at a college. I
> asked just what a machinist at a college does and he said he worked in
> the research department making mechanical devices, usually one of, and
> other dies and fixtures. He looked at my trike and then lifted the
> front end and looked at the underside. After several minutes he said,
> "This was made by a real craftsman,,, Looks like a lot of this was
> made on CNC machines. This should last you for ever"...
>
> One last thought,,, order it with Power Grips.. I would't ride
> without them...
>
> Any Questions - Just Ask..
>
> Jim Andrews Columbus/Phoenix
Jim, that is a wonderful story. This is exactly what I had imagined that
Penninger designs their trikes to do: Provide fun, comfortable, relaxing,
practical, reliable, durable transportation for lazily gazing at the
beautiful trees on a fall day, for hauling groceries, or for a embarking on
a tour of the US.
So far, my wife has resisted recumbents. The first ride she took on my old
LWB/USS bike years ago ended in disaster. She won't touch my SWB/OSS bike
(frankly, I don't blame her). Maybe it's time for me to introduce her to a
delta trike. Thanks for the idea, Jim.
>
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:18:01 +0100, Loft <loft@candlet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>loft@candlet.co.uk wrote...
>>
>>Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
>>comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
>>was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
>>little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
>>and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
>>looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
>>although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
>>borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
>>must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.
>
|
| | |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 13:16:11
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
Don't neglect to check out the Tricruiser www.americruiser.com
It is a tadpole configuration but it is very high up and is quite easy to
get into and out of. The build, Sid Gowdy, is a pleasure to deal with. It is
far from high end but it is a pleasure to ride.
It is the trike I use for my daily rider to and from the train station. It
is also the trike that I replace my Sun EZ-3 AL with because I personally
didn't like that way that particular delta handled.
Jeff
"Loft" <loft@candlet.co.uk > wrote in message
news:MPG.1d47381462e11ea0989685@news.plus.net...
>
> loft@candlet.co.uk wrote...
>
> Gentlemen - thank you so much for taking the trouble to make such
> comprehensive replies. I now feel much more knowledgeable than I did. I
> was already inclining towards the delta configuration, and am perhaps a
> little reinforced in that attitude now. I'm 70+ and ease of getting on
> and off is and will become more so a real consideration. The Kettweisel
> looks a nice thing - the Lepus probably a little too hefty for my needs
> although I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs which is maybe another thing to be
> borne carefully in mind. What a lovely thing the new titanium Kettweisel
> must be!!! Impossibly expensive of course.
>
|
| |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 07:14:19
From: What Me Worry?
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Loft" <loft@candlet.co.uk > wrote in message
news:MPG.1d4611e58582b1c989683@news.plus.net...
>
> I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
> to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
> possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
> the delta and tadpole arrangements?
Hmmm. How to sumize?
Tadpole trikes are quite sporty, lending themselves well to deft handling,
which can be quite exciting - even scary - at high speeds. The rider sits
low to the ground, so they are less visible in traffic. Disc brake
equipped tadpoles can actually do a "stoppie" (front wheelie) if you
carelessly grab a handful of brake lever in a quick stop. Most tadpoles
exhibit noticeable pedal steer and brake steer, due to the front-end design,
rider weight distribution and short wheelbase. Mounting/dismounting a
tadpole can be tricky for less-flexible and older riders. A tadpole trike
most resembles a 3-wheeled pedal-driven go kart.
Deltas tend to be designed for touring, commuting, shopping, hauling,
cruising. They tend to be longer, taller and heavier than tadpoles. They
are easier to handle at low speeds; but can tip more easily than tadpoles in
sharp turns. Since delta trikes only have one wheel up front, they don't
brake as powerfully as tadpoles (which may be a good thing). Many delta
designs resemble 3-wheeled CLWB bikes. They are ideal for older riders and
riders with balance issues (inner ear complications, etc).
Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
bicycles posess; thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering
department. With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry
than recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the
price of a comparable recumbent bicycle.
|
| | |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 11:47:07
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
What Me Worry? wrote:
> Tadpole trikes are quite sporty
Well, the sporty ones are... ;-) Seriously, if an Anthrotech is
"sporting" then we clearly have different definitions!
> Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
> bicycles posess
Not intrinsically, but there are some lean-steer designs out there, and
more appear as time goes by.
> thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering
> department.
The rider is generally free to shift their weight to keep the wheels on
the deck, even though the trike itself won't lean. Whether motorcycle
sidecar racers have "less elegant" cornering than their more
conventional cousins is a matter of taste rather than fact, and
similarly for cycles.
> With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry
> than recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the
> price of a comparable recumbent bicycle.
True as a rule of thumb, though one must be careful about "comparable".
One thing that would put you on a trikes rather than a bike is that
there are some places where having an extra wheel means you can't really
compare one with the other.
As with other aspects of 'bents, I think the degree to which the
designer knows what he's at will probably have more bearing on the end
result than simply does it have one wheel at the back, or at the front.
I think you have to look at specific models designed for the
particular job you want to do.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
| | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 15:56:16
From: What Me Worry?
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk > wrote in message
news:3k440qFsnfrqU1@individual.net...
> What Me Worry? wrote:
>
>> Tadpole trikes are quite sporty
>
> Well, the sporty ones are... ;-) Seriously, if an Anthrotech is
> "sporting" then we clearly have different definitions!
Most tadpoles are sportier than most deltas. It was a general statement.
>> Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
>> bicycles posess
>
> Not intrinsically, but there are some lean-steer designs out there, and
> more appear as time goes by.
That will be a welcome change.
>> thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering department.
>
> The rider is generally free to shift their weight to keep the wheels on
> the deck, even though the trike itself won't lean. Whether motorcycle
> sidecar racers have "less elegant" cornering than their more conventional
> cousins is a matter of taste rather than fact, and similarly for cycles.
If you are very daring, try racing a delta trike on a tight, winding course
against an upright or SWB recumbent bike. The bicycle's propensity for
sinuous curve-carving will eat the delta for lunch in every single corner.
I'd be amazed if the delta could even begin to compete without flipping
over. Tadpoles could be competitive on certain courses against
two-wheelers; but carving through turns is tricky business. The body lean
motion is more intentional than natural, since it is in opposition to the
steering tiller, and requires moving the torso significantly out-of-plane
while still retaining full control of the tiller to keep from veering or
flipping over. Bicycles, conversely, require very little body motion to
produce perfect, sinuous, coordinated turns at high speeds.
>> With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry than
>> recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the price
>> of a comparable recumbent bicycle.
>
> True as a rule of thumb, though one must be careful about "comparable".
All other materials, components and build details being roughly equal,
trikes are always more expensive than bikes. Period. In most cases, they
are at least twice the price.
> One thing that would put you on a trikes rather than a bike is that there
> are some places where having an extra wheel means you can't really compare
> one with the other.
Yes, you can. They're both pedal-powered vehicles.
> As with other aspects of 'bents, I think the degree to which the designer
> knows what he's at will probably have more bearing on the end result than
> simply does it have one wheel at the back, or at the front. I think you
> have to look at specific models designed for the particular job you want
> to do.
But there are general characteristics that distinguish each major design,
and which serve to explain the popularity of particular types of delta and
tadpole trikes. For instance: Make a list of race-winning delta trikes.
Then make a list of race-winning tadpoles. Compare the length of each list.
Now, make a list of tall, cargo-oriented tadpoles. Then make a list of
tall, cargo-oriented deltas. See a pattern forming?
|
| | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 20:21:14
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"What Me Worry?" <__@____.___ > wrote in message
news:Ao9De.164846$x96.7479@attbi_s72...
> "Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:3k440qFsnfrqU1@individual.net...
>> What Me Worry? wrote:
>>
>>> Tadpole trikes are quite sporty
>>
>> Well, the sporty ones are... ;-) Seriously, if an Anthrotech is
>> "sporting" then we clearly have different definitions!
>
> Most tadpoles are sportier than most deltas. It was a general statement.
Lots of luck trying to explain to this group what a general statement is all
about. I have been at it for over 3 years now and they still don't get it.
Most on this group only understand very particular and specialized kind of
statements. The UK nuts, of which Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is a
sterling example, are especially prone to this defective mental condition.
[,,,]
>>> With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry than
>>> recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the price
>>> of a comparable recumbent bicycle.
>>
>> True as a rule of thumb, though one must be careful about "comparable".
>
> All other materials, components and build details being roughly equal,
> trikes are always more expensive than bikes. Period. In most cases, they
> are at least twice the price.
Whoops! Another general statement which goes right by the likes of Peter
Clinch of Dundee, Scotland. You have to realize his powers for thinking
abstractly about anything and coming to some general conclusions are
severely limited. He is like a child that way.
>> One thing that would put you on a trikes rather than a bike is that
>> there are some places where having an extra wheel means you can't really
>> compare one with the other.
>
> Yes, you can. They're both pedal-powered vehicles.
Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is incapable of ever comparing one thing
with another. All he ever knows how to do is nit pick. He is a man only for
details, never even having a glimmer of what the big picture might be.
>> As with other aspects of 'bents, I think the degree to which the designer
>> knows what he's at will probably have more bearing on the end result than
>> simply does it have one wheel at the back, or at the front. I think you
>> have to look at specific models designed for the particular job you want
>> to do.
>
> But there are general characteristics that distinguish each major design,
> and which serve to explain the popularity of particular types of delta and
> tadpole trikes. For instance: Make a list of race-winning delta trikes.
> Then make a list of race-winning tadpoles. Compare the length of each
> list. Now, make a list of tall, cargo-oriented tadpoles. Then make a list
> of tall, cargo-oriented deltas. See a pattern forming?
You are asking Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland to think bigger than he is
capable of thinking. He is a Lilliputian and not worth trying to educate.
After all, he is a Medical Physics Officer (whatever the hell that is) and
no doubt thinks he knows everything. He has himself confused with me. Only I
know everything. That is why I am Great.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2005 02:12:26
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:21:14 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net >
wrote:
<snip >
>
>Lots of luck trying to explain to this group (stinkbait snipped)
(rough translation)
Here fishy, fishy, fishy...
Don't you hear your name?
I say this thread must trooly be near my domain!
Nice trike thread.
good to see some inelligent conversation in *cough* some of the posts.
One of my co-workers has a friend who just got a Sun EZ3. I suspect
this is her first bike of any kind in at least 30 years.
Score another one for recumbents!
Indiana Mike
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2005 09:46:12
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:t9crd1hol9fp6a5cu166aaud4hecbah65p@4ax.com...
> Here fishy, fishy, fishy...
Aw c'mon Mikey. I just finally got the last hook out of my mouth. Now if I
can figure out a way to get the smell out of my clothing....
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2005 13:13:01
From: Jon Meinecke
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com > wrote
> "Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net> wrote
>
> > Here fishy, fishy, fishy...
>
> Aw c'mon Mikey. I just finally got the last hook
> out of my mouth. Now if I can figure out a way
> to get the smell out of my clothing....
Didn't seem to be hooked, just runnin' with the bait,
playin' out his line...
Problem is with continual chumming, the fishin' hole can
become a lot less inviting. Many anglers and fish may
chose to go elsewhere.
Jon Meinecke
|
| | | | | | | | |
Date: 20 Jul 2005 23:40:27
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jon Meinecke" <jonmein@nospam.net > wrote in message
news:1121883081.957ecec5477852c55088b1131e0e8ee2@teranews...
> "Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com> wrote
>> "Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net> wrote
>>
>> > Here fishy, fishy, fishy...
>>
>> Aw c'mon Mikey. I just finally got the last hook
>> out of my mouth. Now if I can figure out a way
>> to get the smell out of my clothing....
>
> Didn't seem to be hooked, just runnin' with the bait,
> playin' out his line...
>
> Problem is with continual chumming, the fishin' hole can
> become a lot less inviting. Many anglers and fish may
> chose to go elsewhere.
>
> Jon Meinecke
Ed Dolan the Great will always be here to make sure that no one too stupid
goes unchallenged. I have never understood why newsgoups should be given
over to types like Jon Meinecke, Mike Rice and Jeff Grippe when one good
troll like myself can so easily prevent it.
As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters wear
beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard them as
repulsive - as well they should. If they want their wives to love them and
if they wish to be highly regarded by other members of this group, they will
need to rid themselves of those ugly beards. Or else they will end up like
Larry Varney, a sad old pathetic replica of a Santa Claus.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 05:18:26
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:rfqdnaIZK_XXukLfRVn-rA@prairiewave.com...
> As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters
> wear beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard
> them as repulsive - as well they should.
It has nothing to do with the beard. I shaved it, remember. Its that damn
Yak Fat (tm) that you recommended. I tried to tell my wife it was your idea
but all she could say was "Ed who?". She doesn't read usenet. I tried to
tell her that you were a virtual god but ever since I put on the Yak Fat
(tm), she has made me sleep outside under the porch. Its a good thing its
summer. Did you know that my sanitation department will only pick up Yak Fat
(tm) twice a year. They consider it a caustic chemical.
If I'm going to start following your advice, Ed, I need you to do better
research and not just say "I heard that...."
Remember the authority that something has when it appears in one of your
posts. You can't be casual about this. You have a reputation to maintain. As
for me, I've got to figure out how to get rid of this Yak Fat (tm) that you
recommended.
Jeff
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 22 Jul 2005 01:11:06
From: Mike Rice
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 05:18:26 -0400, "Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote:
>
>"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
>news:rfqdnaIZK_XXukLfRVn-rA@prairiewave.com...
>
>> As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters
>> wear beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard
>> them as repulsive - as well they should.
>
>It has nothing to do with the beard. I shaved it, remember. Its that damn
>Yak Fat (tm) that you recommended.
<snip >
>If I'm going to start following your advice, Ed, I need you to do better
>research and not just say "I heard that...."
>
>Remember the authority that something has when it appears in one of your
>posts. You can't be casual about this. You have a reputation to maintain. As
>for me, I've got to figure out how to get rid of this Yak Fat (tm) that you
>recommended.
>
>Jeff
>
Sometimes I wonder about you, Jeff. How can you question D's
authority? You musthave forgotten that he neveer really writes to
*us*, but for that 'entire universe' of lurkers, etc.
Just this morning while riding my Tour Easy to work I passed a group
of skateboarders (skateboarders!). It happened at a red light so I had
opportunity to observe that several of them had scratched off the
'Live Strong' from thier yellow wristbands and replaced the slogan
with 'WWEDD?'
Mr. Dolan writes in mysterious ways, it is not for us commoners to
understand all.
Mike
PS-It must have been a while since Ed saw me. Except for one winter my
beard has been gone for thirty years now.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 22 Jul 2005 00:41:57
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:2fh0e1prpm97riag2s7peo9ndej10cbivq@4ax.com...
[...]
> Mr. Dolan writes in mysterious ways, it is not for us commoners to
> understand all.
>
> Mike
>
> PS-It must have been a while since Ed saw me. Except for one winter my
> beard has been gone for thirty years now.
A bit of youthful experimentation is forgivable and I do not hold that
against you. But an elderly man tottering on the brink of the grave should
not be sporting a beard. Jeff has finally wised up, but I think Jon Meinecke
and Larry Varney are unrepentant and persist in their obstinacy. They will
most likely die with their beards on, but their survivors will want them to
be clean shaven as they are lying in their caskets on display for all the
world to see. We elderly recumbent cyclists need to be thinking on these
things and not be reliving our teenage years.
Beards are for savages and third world peoples who cannot access civilized
amenities. Thus spake Zarathustra.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 14:11:59
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11duq2vgm13d01c@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:rfqdnaIZK_XXukLfRVn-rA@prairiewave.com...
>
>> As near as I can figure out all of the three aforementioned characters
>> wear beards down to their bellies and consequently have wives that regard
>> them as repulsive - as well they should.
>
> It has nothing to do with the beard. I shaved it, remember.
[...]
And about time too. Now get your bearded buddies Jon Meinecke and Mike Rice
to shave their beards too. After you have succeeded with them, you can go to
work on Larry Varney, but I fear he may be a lost cause as he likes to play
a vile evil Santa Claus at Christmas time. There is nothing more repulsive
in this world than a bearded recumbent cyclist.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 15:26:57
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:KqKdnQo6g8QSbkLfRVn-rw@prairiewave.com...
>
> There is nothing more repulsive in this world than a bearded recumbent
> cyclist.
Well there is you for starters.
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 15:25:24
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jgrippe@hilldun.com > wrote in message
news:11dvtpmruua6f9d@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:KqKdnQo6g8QSbkLfRVn-rw@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> There is nothing more repulsive in this world than a bearded recumbent
>> cyclist.
>
> Well there is you for starters.
If you wanted to be substantial instead of stupid and add something to the
group you could have gone on about how bearded recumbent cyclists are the
salt of the earth - since you were one until recently. But you are a
juvenile and are lazy besides. You want to take shortcuts. Hurling insults
will get you nothing but the contempt of the group. Before you know it, they
will begin kill filing you.
I have said something of significance to the group. I have told them that
recumbent cyclists who wear beards are jerks. All you have done is tell the
group that you think I am a jerk. What makes you think anyone cares about
that. Not even I care about that.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 21 Jul 2005 18:16:32
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net > wrote in message
news:Zu6dnW2Q8vVZmX3fRVn-sw@prairiewave.com...
>
> What makes you think anyone cares about that. Not even I care about that.
>
Well you seem to care enough to respond. If you don't care don't respond.
You are correct that I didn't have anything particularly profound to say at
this juncture. Not everything one says must be profound. Sometimes you just
want to call a jerk, a jerk. Nuff said!
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Date: 22 Jul 2005 00:27:01
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7 > wrote in message
news:11e07ltpo4see8f@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net> wrote in message
> news:Zu6dnW2Q8vVZmX3fRVn-sw@prairiewave.com...
>>
>> What makes you think anyone cares about that. Not even I care about that.
>>
>
> Well you seem to care enough to respond. If you don't care don't respond.
>
> You are correct that I didn't have anything particularly profound to say
> at this juncture. Not everything one says must be profound. Sometimes you
> just want to call a jerk, a jerk. Nuff said!
No matter how brief my response I always mange to say something substantial.
That is my hallk and why I am Great and why others like you who merely
hurl insults are midgets and dwarfs. You have become like upyerbumbum
Slugger. He likes to tell others to go fuck themselves too, just like you. I
hope you will be happy with your new found companion.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 22:33:58
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"Mike Rice" <jodymike@gte.net > wrote in message
news:t9crd1hol9fp6a5cu166aaud4hecbah65p@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:21:14 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <edolan@iw.net>
> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>>Lots of luck trying to explain to this group (stinkbait snipped)
[...]
> good to see some inelligent conversation in *cough* some of the posts.
Yes, it is too bad that an idiot like Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland had
to go and ruin a perfectly good thread with his nonsense just because he
cannot distinguish a general statement from a hole in the ground.
Thank God for the Great Ones (like Ed Dolan) who know the difference between
a general statement and a particular statement and is not hesitant to point
out that difference to ARBR numskulls like Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland.
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 19 Jul 2005 02:38:26
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Two front or back?
|
"What Me Worry?" <__@____.___ > wrote in message
news:fL1De.186526$xm3.158453@attbi_s21...
>
> "Loft" <loft@candlet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d4611e58582b1c989683@news.plus.net...
>>
>> I'm just learning about recumbent trikes. I know I shall have eventually
>> to try to arrange to try a few out but want to learn all the theory I
>> possibly can first. What then are the nitty gritty differences between
>> the delta and tadpole arrangements?
>
> Hmmm. How to sumize?
>
> Tadpole trikes are quite sporty, lending themselves well to deft handling,
> which can be quite exciting - even scary - at high speeds. The rider sits
> low to the ground, so they are less visible in traffic. Disc brake
> equipped tadpoles can actually do a "stoppie" (front wheelie) if you
> carelessly grab a handful of brake lever in a quick stop. Most tadpoles
> exhibit noticeable pedal steer and brake steer, due to the front-end
> design, rider weight distribution and short wheelbase.
> Mounting/dismounting a tadpole can be tricky for less-flexible and older
> riders. A tadpole trike most resembles a 3-wheeled pedal-driven go kart.
>
> Deltas tend to be designed for touring, commuting, shopping, hauling,
> cruising. They tend to be longer, taller and heavier than tadpoles. They
> are easier to handle at low speeds; but can tip more easily than tadpoles
> in sharp turns. Since delta trikes only have one wheel up front, they
> don't brake as powerfully as tadpoles (which may be a good thing). Many
> delta designs resemble 3-wheeled CLWB bikes. They are ideal for older
> riders and riders with balance issues (inner ear complications, etc).
>
> Neither design takes advantage of the sinuous lean-steering that all
> bicycles posess; thus they are somewhat less elegant in the cornering
> department. With few exceptions, trikes are heavier and harder to carry
> than recumbent bicycles. They are also very expensive, often twice the
> price of a comparable recumbent bicycle.
Bravo! The best thing I have read about tadpoles and deltas on this
newsgroup in a long time.
The only thing I would add is that deltas have not undergone the high end
experimentation that tadpoles have. There is much potential for a better
delta (sportier and faster) than has ever been realized. Tadpoles are
somewhat over rated and deltas are somewhat under rated. Whether this will
ever change is doubtful. Tadpoles just plain look sexier, and the kind of
guys who will spend $3000. to buy a trike want that sexy look.
Ed Dolan - Minnesota
|
|
