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Main
Date: 26 Feb 2007 15:46:13
From: Buck
Subject: Tyres for distance
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What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something more
robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something
sporty like Stelvios?
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
www.catrike.co.uk
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Date: 02 Mar 2007 04:25:06
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On 1, 9:38 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
<snip >
> Having done a lot of riding on
> aggregate-asphalt emulsion (aka "chip seal") and crushed stone
> surfaces, I would not want to use a relatively narrow and fragile tire
> such as the Schwalbe Stelvio. If most of my riding were on better
> surfaces I might have a difference preference, but at my weight a RANS
> Rocket bounces around too much with tires inflated above about 6-bar.
<snip >
I would tend to agree; my Stelvios are usually mounted for road rides
(weekend metric centuries), but I'll drop back to the Comets if I'm
spending any substantial amount of time on limestone.
I may well give the Avocets a shot when next I feel the need to
replace my rubber.
Best,
Dan
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Date: 01 Mar 2007 18:50:50
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On Feb 28, 9:55 pm, Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> "Dan B." <dan.blumenf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172667620.489460.233650@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 27, 7:22 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> > <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> >> Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
> >> last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
> >> Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
> >> smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
> >> "herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
> >> pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].
>
> > I cannot speak to this, as I have never used either pre-21st century
> > (Tire 1.0) Comets or Avocet slicks.
>
> >> On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
> >> faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
> >> the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
> >> significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
> >> in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
> >> unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.
>
> > I'll take your word for this. ;-)
>
> > In my experience, I found a *slight* increase in average road speed
> > when I transitioned from the Comets to the Stelvios, perhaps .5 mph,
> > with no noticeable loss in comfort. This may well be psychological in
> > nature, as my average cruising speed on the flats is about 16-18 mph,
> > which is obviously well under your stated 40 kph figure.
>
> Tom Sherman has never ridden at 40 kph in his entire life. He is a fat
> out-of-condition civil engineer who does not know anything about speed on a
> recumbent. You listen to this fruitcake at your peril.
Who know more about rocket science [1], astronauts who travel into
space or the engineers who design the rockets?
Point, set, match.
[1] As opposed to Rocket [TM] science, where the experts are a pair of
brothers with the name Schlitter.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 01 Mar 2007 18:38:51
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On Feb 28, 7:00 am, "Dan B." <dan.blumenf...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 27, 7:22 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
> > last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
> > Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
> > smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
> > "herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
> > pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].
>
> I cannot speak to this, as I have never used either pre-21st century
> (Tire 1.0) Comets or Avocet slicks.
>
>
>
> > On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
> > faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
> > the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
> > significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
> > in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
> > unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.
>
> I'll take your word for this. ;-)
>
> In my experience, I found a *slight* increase in average road speed
> when I transitioned from the Comets to the Stelvios, perhaps .5 mph,
> with no noticeable loss in comfort. This may well be psychological in
> nature, as my average cruising speed on the flats is about 16-18 mph,
> which is obviously well under your stated 40 kph figure.
When I purchased a RANS Rocket [1], it came with the only ISO 406-mm
Primo Comets available at the time; ISO 37-406 with tan sidewalls.
After wearing out the Comets in a few months, I replaced them with
Avocet 44-406 Freestyle smooth tread tires, and have also used 47-406
Tioga Comp Pool [2] smooth tread tires. Having done a lot of riding on
aggregate-asphalt emulsion (aka "chip seal") and crushed stone
surfaces, I would not want to use a relatively narrow and fragile tire
such as the Schwalbe Stelvio. If most of my riding were on better
surfaces I might have a difference preference, but at my weight a RANS
Rocket bounces around too much with tires inflated above about 6-bar.
Tires narrower than the Avocet at this pressure (6-bar) or less
provide too little resistance to pinch flatting.
[1] By serial number it is a 1999 frame, but came with the 2000 seat
cover, cushion and foam, all of which RANS updated for 2000. The frame
design was unchanged, however.
[2] Out of production Japanese made tan sidewalls, not the newer and
lower quality Philippine made black sidewall.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 01 Mar 2007 18:23:41
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:
> Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
> respond.
butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.
[1] Gratuitous g.danielism
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 02 Mar 2007 06:26:09
From: Jeff Grippe
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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Then move the conversation to one of the "DONT FEED THE TROLL" topics. You
can torment him all you want there.
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1172802221.561831.106610@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> On 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:
>> Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
>> respond.
>
> butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.
>
> [1] Gratuitous g.danielism
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
>
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Date: 02 Mar 2007 18:20:19
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
"Jeff Grippe" <jeff@door7.com > wrote in message
news:12ug2eglru99tee@news.supernews.com...
ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!
> Then move the conversation to one of the "DONT FEED THE TROLL" topics. You
> can torment him all you want there.
What good will that do as I will just give whatever is said there not on the
thread to which it properly belongs a subject all of its own as an original
post by me. This will only serve to clutter up the group more than it
already is.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1172802221.561831.106610@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> On 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:
>>> Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
>>> respond.
>>
>> butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.
>>
>> [1] Gratuitous g.danielism
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 01 Mar 2007 18:21:25
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On 1, 8:01 pm, "dlhii" TOP POSTED:
> Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
> respond.
butbutbut [1], it is fun to torment Mr. Ed.
[1] Gratuitous g.danielism
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
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Date: 01 Mar 2007 17:31:17
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
On Feb 28, 10:04 pm, Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote in messagenews:1172623042.371022.19500@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 26, 12:10 pm, "Grolch" wrote:
> >> I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
> >> Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...
>
> > Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
> > modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
> > of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
> > alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
> > thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
> > buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
> > it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
> > due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.
>
> What the fuck is 'elastic modulus', you confounded idiot? And what the fuck
> is the' moment of enertia of the section', you confounded idiot?
I thought that the behavior of denigrating that which one can not
understand ended after high school. Has Ed Dolan, who finished high
school over one-half (1/2) century ago not yet advanced to this point?
Elastic modulus is the slope of the stress-strain curve in the region
of elastic (recoverable) deformation.
The area moment of inertia combined with the elastic modulus can be
used to calculate the stress in a member for a given moment (or
couple), or to predict the deflection of the member for an applied
moment. For a tube, the dimensions of interest are those of the
exterior diameter and interior diameter, from which the wall thickness
(or annulus) can be derived by simple subtraction.
> Christ, why post anything at all if all you want to do is to parade your engineering
> credentials - you confounded idiot!
This tendency of Ed Dolan to issue imperative commands to Jesus is of
concern. Over on rec.bicycles.tech there is a psychologist licensed by
the State of Minnesota who is an expert in geriatric dementia. Maybe
he could be of assistance.
>From what school did Jesus receive engineering credentials? Ed Dolan
must have read different Gospels than the rest of us.
> Why don't you try to get on the same planet as the rest of us - you
> confounded idiot!
"Who is us, white man?" - Tonto
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 02 Mar 2007 18:13:31
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1172799077.541984.17540@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 28, 10:04 pm, Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
>> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote in
>> messagenews:1172623042.371022.19500@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Feb 26, 12:10 pm, "Grolch" wrote:
>> >> I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
>> >> Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a
>> >> recumbent...
>>
>> > Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
>> > modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
>> > of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
>> > alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
>> > thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
>> > buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
>> > it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
>> > due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.
>>
>> What the fuck is 'elastic modulus', you confounded idiot? And what the
>> fuck
>> is the' moment of enertia of the section', you confounded idiot?
>
> I thought that the behavior of denigrating that which one can not
> understand ended after high school. Has Ed Dolan, who finished high
> school over one-half (1/2) century ago not yet advanced to this point?
Write so that the rest of us can make some sense of what you are saying. Not
to do so ks you as a confounded idiot - as well as being a nerd and a
dork.
> Elastic modulus is the slope of the stress-strain curve in the region
> of elastic (recoverable) deformation.
It still doesn't make any sense!
> The area moment of inertia combined with the elastic modulus can be
> used to calculate the stress in a member for a given moment (or
> couple), or to predict the deflection of the member for an applied
> moment. For a tube, the dimensions of interest are those of the
> exterior diameter and interior diameter, from which the wall thickness
> (or annulus) can be derived by simple subtraction.
Makes even less sense!
>> Christ, why post anything at all if all you want to do is to parade your
>> engineering
>> credentials - you confounded idiot!
>
> This tendency of Ed Dolan to issue imperative commands to Jesus is of
> concern. Over on rec.bicycles.tech there is a psychologist licensed by
> the State of Minnesota who is an expert in geriatric dementia. Maybe
> he could be of assistance.
Learn how to post in common sense words and concepts and I will not have to
invoke the deity so much.
>>From what school did Jesus receive engineering credentials? Ed Dolan
> must have read different Gospels than the rest of us.
>
>> Why don't you try to get on the same planet as the rest of us - you
>> confounded idiot!
>
> "Who is us, white man?" - Tonto
The rest of us have a general education and we did not spend years wandering
about a college campus with a slide ruler sticking out of a pocket or
hanging from a belt like you did. Post your technical shit over on the
technical group where there are a lot of nerds, jerks and dorks who will
appreciate your blathering.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 01 Mar 2007 20:01:44
From: dlhii
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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Kemosabe: please killfile the troll, it's not worth your time to
respond.
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote:
>
>"Who is us, white man?" - Tonto
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Date: 28 Feb 2007 05:00:21
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
On Feb 27, 7:22 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
<snip >
>
> Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
> last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
> Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
> smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
> "herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
> pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].
>
I cannot speak to this, as I have never used either pre-21st century
(Tire 1.0) Comets or Avocet slicks.
>
> On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
> faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
> the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
> significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
> in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
> unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.
>
I'll take your word for this. ;-)
In my experience, I found a *slight* increase in average road speed
when I transitioned from the Comets to the Stelvios, perhaps .5 mph,
with no noticeable loss in comfort. This may well be psychological in
nature, as my average cruising speed on the flats is about 16-18 mph,
which is obviously well under your stated 40 kph figure.
Best,
Dan
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Date: 28 Feb 2007 21:55:55
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
"Dan B." <dan.blumenfeld@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1172667620.489460.233650@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 27, 7:22 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
>> last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
>> Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
>> smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
>> "herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
>> pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].
>>
>
> I cannot speak to this, as I have never used either pre-21st century
> (Tire 1.0) Comets or Avocet slicks.
>
>>
>> On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
>> faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
>> the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
>> significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
>> in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
>> unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.
>>
> I'll take your word for this. ;-)
>
> In my experience, I found a *slight* increase in average road speed
> when I transitioned from the Comets to the Stelvios, perhaps .5 mph,
> with no noticeable loss in comfort. This may well be psychological in
> nature, as my average cruising speed on the flats is about 16-18 mph,
> which is obviously well under your stated 40 kph figure.
Tom Sherman has never ridden at 40 kph in his entire life. He is a fat
out-of-condition civil engineer who does not know anything about speed on a
recumbent. You listen to this fruitcake at your peril.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
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Date: 27 Feb 2007 19:05:56
From:
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
In the 80's aluminum hit the mtb ket; they were advertised as
passive suspension. Trouble was after a couple of years those
underbuilt frames self-destructed. Since that time most aluminum
frames I've seen have been overbuilt and quite stiff. Seems no one
wants to have those frames self-destruct again. Give me steel or
titanium. But then again, perhaps someone will build what I want in
aluminum. YMMV
Enjoy,
Perry B
On Feb 27, 6:37 pm, "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman"
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Feb 26, 12:10 pm, "Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenos...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
> > Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...
>
> Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
> modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
> of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
> alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
> thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
> buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
> it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
> due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.
>
> [1] 6061 T-6 for Catrike's.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 27 Feb 2007 22:46:44
From: gotbent
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
<perryb67@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1172631955.949403.217390@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> In the 80's aluminum hit the mtb ket; they were advertised as
> passive suspension. Trouble was after a couple of years those
> underbuilt frames self-destructed. Since that time most aluminum
> frames I've seen have been overbuilt and quite stiff. Seems no one
> wants to have those frames self-destruct again. Give me steel or
> titanium. But then again, perhaps someone will build what I want in
> aluminum. YMMV
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Perry B
Early aluminum road frames like Alan were quite flexible, I don't remember
them as having a lot of failures. Then the French Pugeout (?) built some alu
frames using magnaformed swaging joining techniques and they suffered
failures at the lugs. Cannondale joined the ket with welded aluminum
large diameter tubes that suffered strange deformations of the seat stays
when they were heat treated. These frames were very stiff and were liked by
the racers for their rigidity when sprinting. Aluminum doesn't have very
good fatigue resistance, so the frames are designed to be stiff. Then carbon
fibre joined he ket. IIRC Teledyne first made cf frames that suffered lug
bond failures. Carbon fibre has some unique properties for a designer in
that the layup can be tailored for the stress and compliance and stiffness
can be part of the same assembly.
Suspension appeared in the mountain bike ket, not to soften the ride, but
to improve handling at speed. You can't steer a bike unless the front wheel
is on the ground, and you can't apply power unless the back wheel is on the
ground. Plain and simple the ket for mtb suspension was for racers.
Comfort was only a by product of suspension. It seems that in the mid
eighties when suspension was in its infancy the designers were trying to
make the mtbs lighter with increased suspension travel, which led to some
pretty radical frame geometries.
However in an aluminum road bike suspension can make a rigid frame ride
quite comfortably. Suspension adds complexity, weight and cost, but improves
handling and comfort.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
| | | |
Date: 28 Feb 2007 09:24:42
From: Curtis L. Russell
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:46:44 -0600, "gotbent"
<gotbent@dontsendmail.com > wrote:
>Early aluminum road frames like Alan were quite flexible, I don't remember
>them as having a lot of failures.
A fair number of the Alans had separations at the lugs, but not
failures. And it was about as easy to fix as it could be - although it
would be a pain to notice the separation at the turn around point in a
century.
And some racers liked the flexy early aluminum bikes. Not exactly a
sprinters bike, but not everyone is a sprinter.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
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| | | |
Date: 28 Feb 2007 08:13:01
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
gotbent wrote:
> However in an aluminum road bike suspension can make a rigid frame ride
> quite comfortably. Suspension adds complexity, weight and cost, but improves
> handling and comfort.
And potentially efficiency: if the only thing that moves up and over (or
down and into) bumps are the wheels then there's much less energy loss
from plain going forwards. The bumpier the road, the bigger the effect.
On bumpier backroads my suspended heavy tourer find it /much/ easier
to keep up with and even pass unsuspended carbon road confections...
Also good for when touring, as a suspended load doesn't have to be moved
up over bumps either. Not only easier for the rider, but for the
luggage: I stay in a big berry growing region and have summer trips out
to the pick-your-owns, and it's nice to have fruit on my return, rather
than fruit puree.
Suspension is one of those things I never saw much point in until I had
it (more by accident than design). Now I /really/ like it.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
|
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Date: 27 Feb 2007 16:37:22
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
On Feb 26, 12:10 pm, "Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenos...@telus.net > wrote:
> I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
> Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...
Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.
[1] 6061 T-6 for Catrike's.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
|
| | |
Date: 28 Feb 2007 22:04:05
From: Edward Dolan
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1172623042.371022.19500@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 12:10 pm, "Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenos...@telus.net> wrote:
>> I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
>> Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...
>
> Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
> modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
> of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
> alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
> thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
> buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
> it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
> due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.
What the fuck is 'elastic modulus', you confounded idiot? And what the fuck
is the' moment of enertia of the section', you confounded idiot? Christ, why
post anything at all if all you want to do is to parade your engineering
credentials - you confounded idiot!
Why don't you try to get on the same planet as the rest of us - you
confounded idiot!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
|
| | |
Date: 28 Feb 2007 02:53:42
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
|
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1172623042.371022.19500@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 26, 12:10 pm, "Grolch" <hjwilkeremovenos...@telus.net> wrote:
>> I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
>> Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent...
>
> Aluminium alloy [1] has approximately the same ratio of elastic
> modulus to density as steel. Stiffness depends on the elastic modulus
> of the material and the moment of inertia of the section. Aluminium
> alloy frames are generally stiffer due the lower density allowing for
> thicker wall, larger diameter tubing than if steel was used (with
> buckling of the tube controlling minimum wall thickness). Therefore,
> it is improper to characterize aluminium alloy frames as being stiffer
> due to just the material used without mentioning the other factors.
>
> [1] 6061 T-6 for Catrike's.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
Fair enough comment, My purpose for stating this was to express my view that
aluminum frames transfer road vibration much more readily than well made
steel frames. In fact, I would suggest that the proliferation of suspended
bikes was a direct result of most manufacturers going to aluminum
construction. At least one major benefit though, light weight at lower cost.
Grolsch
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Date: 27 Feb 2007 16:22:41
From: Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On Feb 26, 10:16 am, "Dan B." <dan.blumenf...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 26, 10:46 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk>
> wrote:
>
> > What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
>
> > Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something more
> > robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something
> > sporty like Stelvios?
> > --
> > Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>
> >www.catrike.co.uk
>
> On my Rocket, I generally go with the Stelvios in good weather, Comets
> in less-good weather.
Do the newer Primo Comets have better traction than those made in the
last century? When I changed from the stock 37-406 Comets to 44-406
Avocet [1] slicks, braking in the wet was considerably improved. The
smooth tread of the Avocets also likely helps (compared to the
"herringbone" pattern of the Comets), since patterned tread on
pavement is about as useful as an udder on a bull [2].
On real world roads, the wider moderate pressure tires will likely be
faster than the narrow high pressure tires, unless one is riding at
the 40+ kph range, where the reduction in frontal area becomes
significant (especially in combination with disc wheels). The increase
in ride comfort will also improve average long distance speeds on
unsuspended bicycles by reducing rider fatigue.
[1] <http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html >.
[2] <http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html >.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
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Date: 27 Feb 2007 11:02:06
From: DougC
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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Buck wrote:
> What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
>
> Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
> more
> robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something
> sporty like Stelvios?
I make sure to get the round ones now.
I tried the square ones, and they're cheap but man they sucked.
All four times I bought them.
But I've learned my lesson.
-----------
I prefer wider tires, 1.5"+. Narrower 1-inch tires accelerate quicker
but only feel good on smooth-as-glass pavement. Unless you're rich
enough to have a bent with full suspension, of course--and in that
case--I hate you; shut up.
,,,,,
Recently I switched to wider /rims/ with the same width tires, and
rather like the effect. I had a dual-559mm wheel bike (a RANS Fusion)
running Schwalbe athon Plus's's (both tires!) and I wanted to switch
to disk brakes and better spokes, and at the lower end of the ket,
it's cheaper just to buy whole new wheels at that point.
I decided to run the athon+'s because I decided one fine day (while
fixing a flat) that I hated fixing flats more than I hated heavy tires.
This bike came with "the usual" 25mm-wide rims, and I got new wheels
that had ~34mm rims, as wider rims made sense, and I wondered what
effect this would have, and it's an around-town <50 mile bike (has a
rear rack with baskets and all) so it isn't a "high-speed or -distance"
bike,,, so running rims a bit heavier is no big deal anyway. The bike
seems to track better now, especially the rear wheel. It NOW seems like
it was "sliding out" a lot before, but now,,, it doesn't.
I will likely switch my other "high-speed and -distance" LWB to athon
Plus tires, and am pondering reworking the wheels to wider rims as well.
~
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Date: 26 Feb 2007 18:10:15
From: Grolch
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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I had my Catrike Road fitted with Big Apples. Between the rigid frame,
Aluminum material and the fact that you can't "unweight" a recumbent, I
wanted some cushioning action. I run them between 40 and 60 psi. That's
plenty for easy rolling. Don't forget that the trike has all the weight
distributed over three wheels instead of two, that makes a diff. I find the
balance between comfort, handling and speed is best with the Big Apples at
50psi. I also think that, unless your rides are on ultra smooth roadways,
smaller tires and higher pressures are just too hard on me and the equipment
with only a ginal increase in average speed.
Grolsch
"Buck" <SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk > wrote in message
news:2007022615461411272-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
> What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
>
> Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
> more
> robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something sporty
> like Stelvios?
> --
> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>
> www.catrike.co.uk
>
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Date: 26 Feb 2007 12:18:56
From: Joel
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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Buck wrote:
> What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
>
> Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
> more
> robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something
> sporty like Stelvios?
I purchased the 406/1.50 Greenspeed Scorcher TR tires, and find them
both fast and bulletproof. Many of us that have used them find them
comfy also.
Joel
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Date: 26 Feb 2007 16:30:30
From: Peter Clinch
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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Buck wrote:
> What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
>
> Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something
> more
> robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something
> sporty like Stelvios?
athons. I'm not that fussed about outright speed and I'm quite
likely to take off-road diversions and Stelvios aren't really the thing
for that... The suspension on the SMGT takes care of the comfort side
of things so I can have the Ms running at 100 psi and not suffer.
They're pretty bombproof too is another Good Thing. I think I've had
about 2 punctures in ~6 years on the 'bent (both rear, of course! ;-/)
and I'm been quite happy not to have long days punctuated by the
Puncture Fairy.
Also, to some extent I'm not a huge experimenter with setup. The bike
came with them, I've been happy and impressed, so not wanting to fix
something that ain't broke I've not tried other tyres on it.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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Date: 26 Feb 2007 08:16:08
From: Dan B.
Subject: Re: Tyres for distance
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On Feb 26, 10:46 am, Buck <SPAMTRAP...@trikesandstuff.DOTco.DOTuk >
wrote:
> What is the preference for tyre type for distance work with group members?
>
> Do you prefer a low pressure comfy tyre like the Big Apple or something more
> robust and free rolling like a athon, or do you prefer something
> sporty like Stelvios?
> --
> Three wheels good, two wheels ok
>
> www.catrike.co.uk
On my Rocket, I generally go with the Stelvios in good weather, Comets
in less-good weather.
Best,
Dan
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